Yesterday the Internets Died a Little More and Link Builders Jumped off Tall Buildings.

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  • SEO
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Its long been a practice of the smart linkbuilder /backlinker to find places to develop links that very few people are using. Links unlike on page SEO can be diluted by too many people using the same sites. You might have noticed that when you excitedly left a blog comment with link on a PR5 page along with 1200 other people and seen no boost in your rankings.

The smart link builder who finds sites that are not being over run keeps them to themselves. The foolish link builders post their links in some thread like "200 blah blah backlinks here" and gets "Thanks bro" and "really good find" comments from strangers that are about to pee on their work of finding them since the sites are now out in the wild and about to be drowned.

Yesterday a very Popular SEO Software company decided to make everyone they could into stupid link builders. In one of the worst concepts ever they determined that its actually in their best interest to make sure everyone has an incentive to share their links with everybody they can find so that multiple webmasters now who had more lenient controls about leaving links (because they were not getting hammered) will have to shut down their policies and lock down their sites.

This stands to affect everybody even if you don't use that software because once a person using their software finds a nice resource they are now given incentives to share it with hundreds and thousands of other users and in a way that with a click of a button each of them can now create hundreds and thousands of profiles to spam the life out of those sites.

Once your resources gets on this list webmasters will have to respond but even if they don't the resources will be diluted because PR or whatever else search engines use is not infinite and will get weaker and weaker running through that site.

Finding real link juice just go t harder but they all think its a feature worth being happy about. Crowd sourcing is a perfectly stupid concept for link building. Its like having a semi private pool and inviting everyone in your city to use it. Its a self defeating practice.
#builders #buildings #died #internets #jumped #link #tall #yesterday
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Its like having a semi private pool and inviting everyone in your city to use it. Its a self defeating practice.

    Someone always pisses in the pool... always.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Someone always pisses in the pool... always.
      Yea public pools, if you have a private pool (own network) you don't have to worry about getting pissed on, like this:

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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        :rolleyes::rolleyes:

        Note to self - never mention pee or pools again in a thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author Suir1980
    it's better than magic submitter's version. i've already canceled my sub and switching to xcr
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Suir1980 View Post

      it's better than magic submitter's version. i've already canceled my sub and switching to xcr
      Perhaps (haven't tested it yet) but those kinds of links are not worth $147 a month. How people think these kinds of link justify spending $147 a month for is beyond me. Its like they think Unnatural notices and Penguin didn't happen. In fact for the reason stated in the OP the links in SenukeCR are worth even less because they are in there with service blaster providers. People think I hate on Senuke for no reason. Actually if their price went down I would consider using them but the Crowd sourcing for link building is just a crappy idea.

      It makes sense for the programmers and owners because it increases the resource list they can claim for the software with no more work on their part but from a link juice perspective it just makes things worse for everyone.

      Anyway I won't be switching because of price and because historically anytime SenukeX has come up with something MS didn't have (rarely) in about 90-120 days it gets it and for less than half the price. Speaking o f which MS just updated to 3.0 and has the quick campaign setup so that process has already started and in ONE day..

      Now if somebody tells me it has GSA features in it Then this boy might become a SenukeX guy.
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Perhaps (haven't tested it yet) but those kinds of links are not worth $147 a month. How people think these kinds of link justify spending a $147 a month for is beyond me. Its like they think Unnatural notices and Penguin didn't happen. In fact for the reason stated in the OP the links in SenukeCR are worth even less because they are in there with service blaster providers. People think I hate on Senuke for no reason. Actually if their price went down I would consider using them but the Crowd sourcing for link building is just a crappy idea.

        It makes sense for the programmers and owners because it increases the resource list they can claim for the software with no more work on their part but from a link juice perspective it just makes things worse for everyone.

        Anyway I won't be switching because of price and because historically anytime SenukeX has come up with something MS didn't have (rarely) in about 90-120 days it gets it and for less than half the price. Speaking o f which MS just updated to 3.0 and has the quick campaign setup so that process has already started.
        For some odd reason noobs and marketers in general will look at this thread and think to themselves, "OH SNAP, Senuke has a new feature, let me check out there website right now, and wow for only 147", I just don't get it, it's like the WF has become the twilight zone, as a matter a fact from now on I will refer to the WF as the Twilight Zone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    What company? I don't really keep track of all that crap lol...

    To be honest - who cares, right? As long as we are ranking sites and making monies, let the peasants fight over shitty links and "non competitive" keywords.
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  • Profile picture of the author ilee
    As long as the internet dying a little bit doesn't affect me then I'm happy...

    Mike, did you delete some old posts so you don't hit the 5500 mark so quick?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by ichl13 View Post


      Mike, did you delete some old posts so you don't hit the 5500 mark so quick?
      Not THAT many

      They toasted the long thread about seniors and whap I am now a far way from it. You waiting for my departure ichl13? Counting the days? LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Not THAT many

        They toasted the long thread about seniors and whap I am now a far way from it. You waiting for my departure ichl13? Counting the days? LOL
        Wow, they got rid of that thread? Man and it was soo informative to .
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Did they delete MY thread? :confused:

          :p
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Did they delete MY thread? :confused:

            :p
            Yes it was totally off topic, this is a SEO forum, not a travel forum, now if you will excuse me I have to get back to my thread about Bruce Lee.
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      • Profile picture of the author ilee
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Not THAT many

        They toasted the long thread about seniors and whap I am now a far way from it. You waiting for my departure ichl13? Counting the days? LOL
        Yeah Mike, I'm sorry but I'm really not appreciating all the bad advice you've been giving here on WF j/k

        For the benefit of the community, we should probably start deleting old threads that you've posted in to keep that count below the 5500 lol

        Ian
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      • Profile picture of the author Ben Acharyaa
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Not THAT many

        They toasted the long thread about seniors and whap I am now a far way from it. You waiting for my departure ichl13? Counting the days? LOL
        You should thank me for that Mike. not to mention why but you really should. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Capbell
    Have I missed something?

    Senuke X = mass spam links

    Magic submitted = mass spam links..

    Mass spam links = Useless for long-term real link building.

    Sure they can create email accounts and blog sites quickly... Hm... so do people these days think that that's worth $60-$150 a month? If your answer is "but I save time because I need to create hundreds of blogs", my response is "Oh really?".
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    • Profile picture of the author retsek
      Originally Posted by Capbell View Post

      Have I missed something?

      Senuke X = mass spam links

      Magic submitted = mass spam links..

      Mass spam links = Useless for long-term real link building.

      Sure they can create email accounts and blog sites quickly... Hm... so do people these days think that that's worth $60-$150 a month? If your answer is "but I save time because I need to create hundreds of blogs", my response is "Oh really?".
      Quoted for Truth.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Capbell View Post


      Sure they can create email accounts and blog sites quickly... Hm... so do people these days think that that's worth $60-$150 a month?.
      Well a certain amount of automization doesn't hurt anybody. Once you can record ANY site there is nothing to say that you can't record how to post to your own or that you have to use it on hundreds of sites. Thats a silly assumption some people make. Livewriter automates the posting of content to wordpress (and other blogs). Same thing. IF senuke just did that instead of this crowd sourcing thing I would have no issue. It just still wouldn't be worth $147 a month. Frankly as you indicate neither is MS except I have yet to find anything that can do things quite like it does and no I am not talking about making hundreds of sites or sending PR N/A links. there is plenty of software out there that does that.
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    Mike, I was just thinking that exact same thing as soon as I read about the crowd sourcing feature. Im not worried about the smart ones, I doubt they will even use that feature, I mean, if I found a site nobody is using, and automated it, why would I want a thousand other people to spam it.. it's mine! Hopefully that will be the mentality. Unfortunately, those who dont and are greedy for credits or whatever will possibly find the same obscure site you found and there that goes in the trash

    Actually, from a programmers perspective, I'm not really sure if its a horrible idea or a brilliant one
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

      Actually, from a programmers perspective, I'm not really sure if its a horrible idea or a brilliant one
      Like I indicated before from an owner/programmers point of view its great (not brilliant though because its far from original). Crowd sourcing has always allowed companies to offer all kinds of services and products without having to provide them yourself.

      So in no time at all Senuke will be claiming to be able to add hundreds of thousands and even millions of diverse links and when ever newbies or those who fail to grow up in SEO hear the words "millions" and "diverse" they think "Wow that must be good". The quantity and diversity over quality guys won't give up because they have nothing else to offer.

      From a SEO point of view though it will only lead to dilution of link juice (to the extent those sites ever had them) and the other thing its going to do is lead to a whole lot of shenigan bogus claims by service providers that they have a magical mix of those links that can sky rocket you to the top of google.

      When you see these things and the hyp around them you feel like you are in a time machine. How in the world could we in 2012 be talking about sharing already low quality links with thousands of others.

      After unnatural link notices from Google?

      After Penguin and what it did to people and their business?

      Its amazing . Internet Marketing "SEOs" absolutely refuse to grow up And they think tiered linking completely negates the effects. Thing is though its hard for us to check the backlinks of our backlinks but Google already has the backlinks of our backlinks of our backlinks of our backlinks of our baclinks in their database. You better mix something else in there if you want to be alive when they start using that data.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Like I indicated before from an owner/programmers point of view its great (not brilliant though because its far from original). Crowd sourcing has always allowed companies to offer all kinds of services and products without having to provide them yourself.

        So in no time at all Senuke will be claiming to be able to add hundreds of thousands and even millions of diverse links and when ever newbies or those who fail to grow up in SEO hear the words "millions" and "diverse" they think "Wow that must be good". The quantity and diversity over quality guys won't give up because they have nothing else to offer.

        From a SEO point of view though it will only lead to dilution of link juice (to the extent those sites ever had them) and the other thing its going to do is lead to a whole lot of shenigan bogus claims by service providers that they have a magical mix of those links that can sky rocket you to the top of google.

        When you see these things and the hyp around them you feel like you ar ein a time machine. How in the world could we in 2012 be talking about sharing already low quality links with thousands of others.

        After unnatural link notices from Google?

        After Penguin and what it did to people and their business?

        Its amazing . Internet Marketing "SEOs" absolutely refuse to grow up.


        I'm telling you man, it's human nature to automatically think more is better. It doesn't matter If it's more crap, because more crap is surely better than the other guys with less crap.

        True story, right after high school in the late 80's (yeah I'm old) I worked for Walmart, the store manager took everyone outside (Lawn & Garden) one day & told us, what other business do you know of that can sell bags of shit (fertilizer) & still have customers begging for more bags of shit when you run out of shit to sell?

        Anyways, there will always be people that will line up to buy bags of shit, or in this case junk links.

        We can yell from the rooftops, but in the end, it's every man for himself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bryan V
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          ...what other business do you know of that can sell bags of shit (fertilizer) & still have customers begging for more bags of shit when you run out of shit to sell?

          Anyways, there will always be people that will line up to buy bags of shit, or in this case junk links.
          LOL I'm dying from this..
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          Perhaps an attic I shall seek.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Sounds like a fun game of Russian roulette, on railroad tracks, in a bad neighborhood, after a nuclear war, during a drought, while fending off a pack of wild dogs that haven't had anything to eat for two weeks.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    All the more reason not to use sites that autoapprove content. If there is no moderation on the domain, I don't want to be there anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    On the bright side, according to them you have to actually create scripts to earn credits, which you can use towards using other's scripts. So everyone's scripts wont just automatically be injected into the program for everybody to use. Of course that could change in the future.

    Long story short, it does take at least a small degree of technical knowhow to write the scripts, whereas, not to sell John Q Public short, but I would guess at least 90% of users just wanting to blast their crapspin with one push of a button wont have a clue how to even write a script, much less use the crowdsourcing feature. Hopefully the ones who are knowledgeable enough to write scripts are ones who wont abuse those sites
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

      On the bright side, according to them you have to actually create scripts to earn credits, which you can use towards using other's scripts, at 1 credit each. So everyone's scripts wont just automatically be injected into the program for everybody to use.
      I'd put down good money that that policy is temporary to get people to build up the CR market place. I am 99.9999% certain after it gets to a certain size there will be ahem other ways to get access.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    You know what's the problem with scripts? They don't last long as all the sites that are worthy to put up a link on change weekly. That's why most auto submission tools are crap as well, they don't keep up with the changes so with Senukex for example they end up with more and more poor sites cause poor sites don't change often.

    So in the end you still end up with a ton pile of links at worthless domains or non working scripts. That's why I hate tools so much and that's why we do everything manually. Also most scripts/tools are not able to customize web2.0s and a like, so you get ugly web2.0's with all wrapped up text, missing pictures, links that don't translate in the correct format and the list go's on and on...
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      You know what's the problem with scripts? They don't last long as all the sites that are worthy to put up a link on change weekly. That's why most auto submission tools are crap as well, they don't keep up with the changes
      Thats a truly excellent point and since its the responsibility of the users to change those scripts they will probably have alot of bad scripts in the Crowd source
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

        On the bright side, according to them you have to actually create scripts to earn credits, which you can use towards using other's scripts. So everyone's scripts wont just automatically be injected into the program for everybody to use. Of course that could change in the future.
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I'd put down good money that that policy is temporary to get people to build up the CR market place. I am 99.9999% certain after it gets to a certain size there will be ahem other ways to get access.

        I read somewhere, and I cannot find it now, where they said they will be monitoring the download popularity and success rate of the scripts. Ones that become really popular could see their way into the full program.

        So yeah, maybe not initially, but eventually a lot of them will be there for the masses to abuse.

        On the other side of it, they will have their marketplace, but I don't see what would be stopping people from selling packets of scripts on the side to whoever they want. Kind of like what goes on with Sick Submitter.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Thats a truly excellent point and since its the responsibility of the users to change those scripts they will probably have alot of bad scripts in the Crowd source
        You know what's funny, my VA manager has to much free time I suppose and always browses around the forums (especially WSO section) looking for the new magic 1 click solution. Then he always asks my opinion and came up with this line:

        <<< is it going to change the world of SEO again: hxxp://www.senuke.com/xcr/"

        LOOOOOOOOL
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    Eh, it's all hype anyways, you know like that new shiny cellphone with a new feature you just gotta have, that you use maybe once or twice
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    Im sure they have a pretty tight built-in security feature where you need to be a subscriber and contributor to be able to use other peoples scripts, but yeah I can see that side of it too.
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  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    Great post mike. I will not be sharing my resources but I'm afraid that won't matter.

    As soon as a domain gets categorized as spam, you will all be crying about your sites tanking.
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