Matt Cutts on Forum SEO Snakeoil

14 years ago

DogFart Junior and Blackhat Assassin. Nice.

Lol at the wall of testimonials comment. I think he was talking about LaClear.

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retsek 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Lol at the wall of testimonials comment. I think he was talking about LaClear.

I thought the same thing
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elperuanito 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

DogFart Junior and Blackhat Assassin. Nice.

Lol at the wall of testimonials comment. I think he was talking about LaClear.

LaClear? Is that the guy who offers SEO work? So am guessing his stuff is junk?
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SEOToronto

14 years ago

[DELETED]

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DPM70 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SEOToronto

Snakeoil SEO is everywhere. We stick to strictly organic SEO Toronto. No software, no inappropriate practices...

......just forum spamming.
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- paulgl 14 years ago
  
  Man that is uncanny. I've used almost the exact terms
  and phrases here many times.
  
  Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
  
  For some of you, it's a freight train coming your way:
  
  Originally Posted by SEOToronto
  
  Snakeoil SEO is everywhere. We stick to strictly organic SEO Toronto. No software, no inappropriate practices...
  
  Does that include spamming a link? Even your first page offers first page
  placement. And a directory submission package.
  
  Paul
  
  Thanks
  
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  If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.
  
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- Auctiondebteliminator 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DPM70
  
  ......just forum spamming.
  
  Thought the same thing!!!!!!! That's why I stick with teaching eBay techniques.. tried and true and a much simpler algorithm to crack.
  
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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Theres two big things wrong with Matt's reasoning.

First,

In his wall street analogies the techniques don't work AT ALL. In some cases at least some SEO providers ACTUALLY DO offer services that work and can be proven to work by looking at Matt's very own search results.

Buying links works
buying aged domains work (and will forever as long as Google looks at links - the web is nothing but a network)
Even some Web 2.0s work if you put in the quality.

What Matt nails is the 40 page long testimonials or cheap SEO offer. Lets face it anything you do now with spun content and mass submission of weak content is just putting a bullseye on your back. when you offer SEO at the price point that pleases the masses theres no human way to volumize SEO without utilizing that stuff.

Second thing is that All Matt Cutt's and Google ever do is curse the "darkness". As much as I appreciate link bait, great content, gaining great usability etc White hat SEO is often nowhere near actionable into precise steps that businesses need. Link bait is hit and miss, great content can be entirely ignored. anyone who sees what goes viral or even contemplates how the word Kardashian became a household name knows that lowquality can work far more effectively getting links than truly great content.

Google has hundreds of people monitoring web spam but not one employee I know of whose job is to see to it that great sites get noticed. But hey if its not enough for you to have ads to the side of real results but you have to prostitute out the real top three links you are as corrupt as every one else and your stated desire to see the best regardless of dollar bills ranked is just lip service.

seriously Googles has one wail of a PR firm behind it. The fact that they have convinced millions of people that they have a moral force to talk about manipulating search results while they themselves manipulate the real positional top three results for nothing but raw cash is pure chutzpa and genius level hypnotism

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jaggyjay

14 years ago

Is it just me, but at one point throughout the video I thought that he was going to start pulling out his hair.

Matt: "Ya freakin morons! We know what yer doin! I'm a warrior too! Forget the Wall Street analogy. I have a bridge to sell ya!"

Tough job he has. I don't envy him at all.

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brettb

14 years ago

Google are making the mistake of thinking they can solve everything with algorithms.

So they built a nice crawler to look for copyrighted music being used on YouTube. Trouble is this ends up giving me a copyright violation because somebody found the same public domain track I used and claimed it as their own work!

My own sites have tumbled out of the rankings because Google think my sites are full of duplicate content, where in fact my stuff has been stolen (often by Blogger users) or I've reposted some of my own stuff I wrote for other sites.

Sheesh. Maybe they're just overthinking stuff, because DuckDuckGo have some fairly decent results these days.

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superman1231

Banned 14 years ago

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by superman1231

Google needs to come up with alternatives to help people start out on the internet.

It is not Google's responsibility to help people start an online business, nor are they preventing anyone from doing it.

Originally Posted by superman1231

As at the miniute the companys own reputation in engalnd is that of a greedy and selfish company and even non internet markerters see this now due to there greed of avoiding tax.

Every corporation does what it can within the law to minimize its tax burden.

Mobil, Shell, GE, Apple... all no different than Google.

Originally Posted by superman1231

Maybe it is bings time to attack! Like in china with badiu or what ever it is called google can be destroyed.

Unless the rest of the world goes communist and adopts Bing as its search engine of choice, that is not going to happen.

Google was not destroyed by natural competition in China. Google refused to limit people's freedom to search for what they wanted like the government of China wished. The reason Baidu exists is because the Chinese government has complete control over it and the results it shows, just like they do with the media. The government banned Google in China because they couldn't control it.

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by superman1231

google are a bunch of tax avoiding idiots.

Seriously here in england they have cheated and found ways to avoid paying taxes and exploiting the tax system taking money away from the poor.

Hi superman1231,

Cynical much?

Tax avoidance is not only legal, Google has a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to exercise all diligence in responsible tax avoidance. To do otherwise would be cheating their shareholders and likely result in a shakeout of management. They are doing exactly what their shareholders want them to do, it isn't cheating it is both moral and ethical.

I couldn't help but LOL when you wrote "taking money away from the poor". How does that work? The "poor" do not have any money, so how could Google take it away from them? Google takes money that is willingly given to them, mostly by business that gain more from Google than what they pay them.

Originally Posted by superman1231

Spammers are also people who are mostly the most desperate to make money or start making money so you cannot blame them for trying and it just pure greed by google that means loads of people cannot start a online buisness. Google needs to come up with alternatives to help people start out on the internet.

As at the miniute the companys own reputation in engalnd is that of a greedy and selfish company and even non internet markerters see this now due to there greed of avoiding tax.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying: You think spammers should not be blamed, and that Google should be forced to change their business to help spammers start out on the internet, because it is just greed to not help out the spammers?

Wow, that opinion seems a bit extreme to me.

Originally Posted by superman1231

Plus it is a bit stupid to think that to monitor natural human behaviour on the internet can be achieved by a unnatural computer....... dumb dumbs

:confused:

Just to clarify, you think it "a bit stupid" and "dumb" to use a computer to monitor human behavior on a computer while accessing a network of computers (AKA the Internet). :confused::rolleyes:

Maybe I'm missing something there, but seems pretty smart to me.

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vdek

14 years ago

The only ones complaining are the ones trying to game the system. Google is about the USERS not the webmasters.

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1byte

14 years ago

Sure seems like Matt's been spending some time hanging out in IM forums. I wonder what Matt's username is here on Warrior Forum? :p

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DPM70

14 years ago

Seriously here in england they have cheated and found ways to avoid paying taxes and exploiting the tax system taking money away from the poor.

I can assure you, the "poor" are a much bigger burden on the tax system. Especially those lazy ones who sit around on benefits all day living off the working man.

You know, those ones who can't manage a simple, healthy, vegetable-based weekly food budget to feed their overly large families (that they cannot afford to sustain without further benefits) yet have all the shiny gagdets, oversized TVs and the latest mobile phones they need. The definition of "poor" in this country sometimes leaves a lot to be desired (no pun intended).

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superman1231

Banned 14 years ago

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vdek 14 years ago

Originally Posted by superman1231

No the people i meant was not lazy people but the people who are trying to work hard at a online business but cannot get started in the first place.

Just because you wish your business to succeed doesn't mean that it will. You have to create something valuable and that requires working hard AND working smart.

If your business plan involves cloning something that is already out there and entering a competitive market, well you better have a damned good for reason to get someone to pick you over them. Otherwise be prepared to spend quite a bit in paid advertising in the beginning or have an excellent marketing plan.
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ilee

14 years ago

Originally Posted by superman1231

No the people i meant was not lazy people but the people who are trying to work hard at a online business but cannot get started in the first place.

all so if i started avoiding tax in the millions i would be sent to prison.

If there was a legal way for you to pay less income tax, you'll probably do it in a heartbeat. I know I would.

The fact of the matter is that if these loopholes are available, why not make use of it? If the government aren't closing them, obviously they're condoning them... don't hate the player, hate the game.

Besides, I'd much rather we sort out the gazillions of tax money spent on undeserving people on benefits than companies who are at least contributing something to society.

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John Romaine

14 years ago

SOCK PUPPET!!!!!!

OH MAN, I'M IN TEARS HERE!!!!

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Oranges

14 years ago

Irony is....those snake oil stuff still works!
Poor matt!

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Manoj V

14 years ago

Hey Matt - go do some work instead of hanging out in forums! You don't use your office computer while on Forums do you? ;-)

He's going to get a Google alert for this thread. So if you have a message for Matt put it on this thread...lol.

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Suir1980

14 years ago

Matt Cutts is 100% wrong on this one! I saw a WSO with screenshots of his earnings last month and they were FIVE FIGURES so I know what he's selling is real. Best of all, he's only sharing his secrets for $9.99 so why wouldn't I jump on that?!?

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1byte

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Suir1980

Matt Cutts is 100% wrong on this one! I saw a WSO with screenshots of his earnings last month and they were FIVE FIGURES so I know what he's selling is real. Best of all, he's only sharing his secrets for $9.99 so why wouldn't I jump on that?!?

Har har, good one! I'm going to buy that WSO so I can be as smart as Matt!

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rahmanpaidar

14 years ago

They browse web. That's not surprising.

Google alone consumes 40% of all internet bandwidth in the world.

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gearmonkey

14 years ago

If "SEO Snakeoil" doesn't work then why are they fighting so hard and spending thousands of man hours on it daily to fight it?

If "SEO Snakeoil" doesn't work then why do they waste their time to send webmasters "unnatural link" messages in WMTs?

Or is it Matt Cutts job to say "SEO Snakeoil" doesn't work as a tactic to try to get people to stop trying certain methods it because it works and does help rank websites?

I suspect the latter.

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gearmonkey

14 years ago

double post

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MikeFriedman

14 years ago

Originally Posted by gearmonkey

If "SEO Snakeoil" doesn't work then why are they fighting so hard and spending thousands of man hours on it daily to fight it?

If "SEO Snakeoil" doesn't work then why do they waste their time to send webmasters "unnatural link" messages in WMTs?

Or is it Matt Cutts job to say "SEO Snakeoil" doesn't work as a tactic to try to get people to stop trying certain methods because it works and does help rank websites?

I suspect the latter.

Actually, I suspect that he is being a little bit honest here. All throughout the year, can you imagine how many messages they are getting from people blaming some SEO for their drop in rankings?

Right after Penguin it was probably a bit expected.

I think he is expressing his disbelief that, even with all the information out there, months later people are still falling for these fake promises and hiring people that are doing nothing but damage to their rankings.

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ProSence

14 years ago

Maintaing search result quality is really hard for Matt Cutts these days, according to what he promises.

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superman1231

Banned 14 years ago

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ilee

14 years ago

Originally Posted by superman1231

how is tax avoidance moral? If everyone in the country started to not pay taxes then how would hospitals run? Poor people cannot afford private health care unlike these rich millionaire google bosses.
But i guess all poor people deserve to die and the rich can carry on living their rich lives and keep all the millions to themselves even though they probably will not even spend half of it and want to take it with them when they die themselves.

I do believe that the rich should be able to keep their hard earned money, I'm sorry but regardless of how much they have, at the end of the day they probably worked really hard to get it. And then in a parallel lifestyle, someone else with a poor work ethic is sitting around at home in their tax paid house all day, drinking tax paid beer and playing on their tax paid xboxs.

And yet! for some reason, it's immoral of the rich people that they're paying a bit less tax? At least they're actually paying tax. What are they paying for through the tax system? Schools, hospitals, teenage mums. What's so different between that and charity? Except charity's not compulsory and you won't get shouted at for paying a bit less.

I also want to add that right now in the UK and a lot of other countries, the tax percentages get higher the more money you get. How is that fair at all, not only do rich people pay more tax, they also pay a larger percentage of tax. I can understand if everybody pays the same rate, but 45% is much too high a price, paying for something they won't benefit from directly.

Originally Posted by superman1231

yes...because the google computers are built using algorithms and only know what they are being programmed to deal with you so a dynamic system that is always changing will have unknown and new things that google hasnt been programmed to deal with.
They would have to program google to know the future and everything in advance and everyone's thoughts.

You'll be surprised how predictable human actions are. A lot of it can be calculated through patterns and math. Just look into crowd mentality or crowd psychology.

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by superman1231

how is tax avoidance moral? If everyone in the country started to not pay taxes then how would hospitals run? Poor people cannot afford private health care unlike these rich millionaire google bosses.
But i guess all poor people deserve to die and the rich can carry on living their rich lives and keep all the millions to themselves even though they probably will not even spend half of it and want to take it with them when they die themselves..

I not only think tax avoidance is moral, it is arguable the only truly moral policy a company can have related to tax payments. I am not alone in this opinion, it is shared by a great many economists including the greatest in my lifetime, Milton Friedman. Governments are notorious for wasteful spending, and keeping capital in the private economy does far more to benefit the poor.

No one is suggesting that people should pay absolutely no taxes at all. That is not what tax avoidance is about. Tax avoidance is legal, moral and ethical. Governments have written tax codes to encourage some behaviors, while discouraging others. Those complicated tax codes force companies into using tax avoidance as a standard practice for moral, ethical and economic reasons.

Private charities are generally much better at providing welfare than wasteful government programs that are usually just stealth programs setup to acquire power.

In my opinion, you have simply bought into anti-free enterprise propaganda designed to incite class warfare as a way of seizing power over individuals in an attempt to enslave them. Wake up and realize that you have been duped! the people spreading that propaganda seek to make you their slave, resist the siren call of socialism. Take the braver path toward freedom and dignity for all.

Originally Posted by superman1231

Spamming is bad as it destroys other people websites but becouse people find it so tough now to even start a internet website and get visitors and how all the other huge websites like Amazon having 72 million backlinks it is quite impossible for a few 30 social bookmarking or other kinds of backlinks to start ranking high for a keyword so google has started the whole "vote for a website with back links scheme" and in doing so created spam.

Spam existed before Google was created, and will be with us long after Google is gone, Google is just a current victim of that scourge.

Originally Posted by superman1231

yes...because the google computers are built using algorithms and only know what they are being programmed to deal with you so a dynamic system that is always changing will have unknown and new things that google hasnt been programmed to deal with.
They would have to program google to know the future and everything in advance and everyone's thoughts.

Algorithms are nothing more than a set of rules that define a procedure. Those procedures and rules are created by humans. And true, a human cannot "know the future and everything in advance and everyone's thoughts". Spammers take advantage of that human weakness, and yes, Google, like all other human inventions fall short of that which is possessed by an almighty God. I fail to see how that makes computers worthless as a tool. Am I missing something?

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GlobalTrader

14 years ago

I am not a Google fan but then I am not a fan of having anyone, be it individual or corporation, pay more than they are due under the laws as they have been written.

I heard a quote about 30 years ago that stuck with me, it took me a bit of memory probing to think of it and it's author but I was able to find it for the enlightenment of all who are reading this thread:

Famous Quote from Judge Learned Hand (1872-1961, Judge, U.S. Court of Appeals)

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands."

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Michael Ten

14 years ago

Very interesting video. I'm glad that you posted that here.

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yukon

Banned 14 years ago

Sounds like old Matt C. got burnt on a WSO.

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Mike Anthony 14 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Sounds like old Matt C. got burnt on a WSO.

Or he bought a service and the site ranked. That really ticked him off.
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Matt Cutts on Forum SEO Snakeoil

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