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Am I crazy to agree to this or is this really a good opportunity?

by Pestew
31 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I’m about to enter an agreement with a national retailer in a small but common niche. Basically I would be working as an affiliate marketer doing SEO work and whatever marketing to create sales through his website. I’ll be making 17.5% off per sale which is not bad from a physical everyday type product.

Here’s his stickler; I would have to build and maintain ongoing sales of an increasing number as time goes on. If the numbers drop below that (100 per month for the first 6 months, then 200 for the next 12 months, then 300 after that) or aren’t reached then I loose my affiliation with him and everything I’ve built.

I think this is a good opportunity for me to build a national SEO reputation and make what potentially could be some descent money, so far I have been working in local stuff, so obviously I’m a bit apprehensive about this. I know it’s a lot of work with higher risks, but the rewards seem good.

The thing is, at the end of the year, I’ll have built his online presence up and could loose it all (less the commissions made along the way) if Google does a dance or something else comes up. Hoping to hear any suggestions.



Thanks, Pete
#agree #crazy #good #good opportunity #marketing #opportunity #seo
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Why does he care how many sales you generate? If you generate a single sale it's one more sale than he had yesterday.

    If you stand a chance of losing a years work/commission he is defiantly trying to screw you over.

    I would tell him thanks for the laugh.
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    • Profile picture of the author AllRed
      I agree with Yukon. I would turn the table and only build that sales funnel if you get a bigger % at those plateaus.. Then, after you build it, you should be able to collect residuals.. infinitum

      Good Luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author Pestew
        Originally Posted by AllRed View Post

        I agree with Yukon. I would turn the table and only build that sales funnel if you get a bigger % at those plateaus.. Then, after you build it, you should be able to collect residuals.. infinitum

        Good Luck!
        Yea, great idea! I think anything that keeps me in control of the sales process will be hard for him to turn away in the end.

        Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Pestew
    Yea, I know what your saying, but he's an old school direct sales guy, if your not producing results, out you go.

    I have also considered having some sort of provision for algorithm changes and seasonal slumps.

    BTW, all commissions I would keep.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Acharyaa
    Give it a shot man! as long as you'll be keeping the commission i think its fair enough. i mean there's obviously risk but then there's risk in a salaried job as well. you work for a year and if the owners arent happy you have to go. all your progress goes to the garbage. its the same situation but here you decide how much you want to earn. i think the commission thing will keep you motivated enough to work even harder. just my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by Ben Acharyaa View Post

      Give it a shot man! as long as you'll be keeping the commission i think its fair enough. i mean there's obviously risk but then there's risk in a salaried job as well. you work for a year and if the owners arent happy you have to go. all your progress goes to the garbage. its the same situation but here you decide how much you want to earn. i think the commission thing will keep you motivated enough to work even harder. just my 2 cents.
      Thanks for the encouragement, Ben
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  • Profile picture of the author Moriarty
    Can I add something here?

    Old school I might be, only build yourself an email list. That way people who liked you aren't going to forget you. The basic affiliate marketing model died five years ago. Some are still hanging on, they are finding it harder work for less return.

    Get them on a list where the occasional newsletter has the occasional affiliate link. The point is to keep them in the loop. When they need something back they come.

    Good luck!!! M
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post

      Can I add something here?

      Old school I might be, only build yourself an email list. That way people who liked you aren't going to forget you. The basic affiliate marketing model died five years ago. Some are still hanging on, they are finding it harder work for less return.

      Get them on a list where the occasional newsletter has the occasional affiliate link. The point is to keep them in the loop. When they need something back they come.

      Good luck!!! M
      Definitely great points, thanks Moriarty!
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisv24
    I agree that there is a risk here, but it's worth a shot. As you say, its a great opportunity to work on a national scale.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by chrisv24 View Post

      I agree that there is a risk here, but it's worth a shot. As you say, its a great opportunity to work on a national scale.
      Thanks for the support, Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I guess I misread OP, when I posted above I thought you meant the other guy wasn't going to pay any commission for the entire year If you didn't keep increasing sales for the entire year.
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  • Profile picture of the author AllRed
    Here’s his stickler; I would have to build and maintain ongoing sales of an increasing number as time goes on. If the numbers drop below that (100 per month for the first 6 months, then 200 for the next 12 months, then 300 after that) or aren’t reached then I loose my affiliation with him and everything I’ve built.
    I read it the same way as Yukon...
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I guess I misread OP, when I posted above I thought you meant the other guy wasn't going to pay any commission for the entire year If you didn't keep increasing sales for the entire year.
      Originally Posted by AllRed View Post

      I read it the same way as Yukon...
      That's understandable, I should have clarified a little better.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by Pestew View Post

    Here's his stickler; I would have to build and maintain ongoing sales of an increasing number as time goes on. If the numbers drop below that (100 per month for the first 6 months, then 200 for the next 12 months, then 300 after that) or aren't reached then I loose my affiliation with him and everything I've built.
    Here's the part I don't understand. So let's say you hit the 200 sales a month, but the next month there are only 195 sales. He's going to just completely cut ties with you and start over with someone else?

    That makes no sense. If he is not paying you for your work and is only paying you a commission for sales, he is a moron to cut ties with you just for a drop in sales one month. He only has to pay you for sales, so he has nothing to lose.

    I don't get it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Here's the part I don't understand. So let's say you hit the 200 sales a month, but the next month there are only 195 sales. He's going to just completely cut ties with you and start over with someone else?

      That makes no sense. If he is not paying you for your work and is only paying you a commission for sales, he is a moron to cut ties with you just for a drop in sales one month. He only has to pay you for sales, so he has nothing to lose.

      I don't get it.
      I just wrote to him of these exact concerns and he has responded that we could have some type of "circuit breakers" for possible drops.

      Also, I will have control of all the off site optimizing so if he pulls something stupid, I will have some leverage.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Pestew View Post

        I just wrote to him of these exact concerns and he has responded that we could have some type of "circuit breakers" for possible drops.

        Also, I will have control of all the off site optimizing so if he pulls something stupid, I will have some leverage.
        It still makes no sense. If he is only paying you based on sales, there is no reason to cut ties with you. If you are producing sales, then he is making money. Even if there is a dip one month. And in every business, there are going to be dips. It happens. No business grows month after month forever.
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        • Profile picture of the author Pestew
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          It still makes no sense. If he is only paying you based on sales, there is no reason to cut ties with you. If you are producing sales, then he is making money. Even if there is a dip one month. And in every business, there are going to be dips. It happens. No business grows month after month forever.
          Thanks again for your input Mike,

          I will be writing the contract, so I will make sure it's worded for possible dips.

          I think he just wants to keep my head in the game, it's more pressure, but sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone to really make things happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    Bad deal. It should be 17.5% of the sale regardless of the volume of the same assuming your work has generated the sale in the first place. The SEO will require money and time and if you're investing that into the site (via your own pocket) to be honest, I'd want a share of the business. This is not like affiliate marketing to your own site where you pre sell and send the click on to the merchant site.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

      Bad deal. It should be 17.5% of the sale regardless of the volume of the same assuming your work has generated the sale in the first place. The SEO will require money and time and if you're investing that into the site (via your own pocket) to be honest, I'd want a share of the business. This is not like affiliate marketing to your own site where you pre sell and send the click on to the merchant site.
      The site would be solely under my control, he just owns the domain. and like I said, I will have control of all the off site optimizing so if he pulls something stupid, I will have some leverage. Also, 17.5% off the top of a physical product with no other costs of merchant fees, warehousing, stocking or shipping. Payment is also done weekly, so I think that has merit.
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  • Profile picture of the author abdul786
    You have to think it in this way... Is it worth compared to if you would do the same for a product of yours where you have nothing to lose, ever?

    National reputation is one thing but what if something really goes wrong.. You have to think over this BUT if you are confident enough then go for it without thinking twice.

    When you mentioned about loosing the affiliation, it sounded like he's trying to get rid of that 17% commission at a certain point (when you built the customer base). I might be wrong anyway
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by abdul786 View Post

      You have to think it in this way... Is it worth compared to if you would do the same for a product of yours where you have nothing to loose, ever?

      National reputation is one thing but what if something really went wrong.. You have to think over this BUT if you are confident enough then go for it without thinking twice.

      When you mentioned about loosing the affiliation, it sounded like he's trying to get rid of that 17% commission after a certain point (when you built the customer base). I might be wrong anyway
      I think he's trying to keep a fire to my feet, as long as he's making money, he'll be happy.

      I look at it as if promoting for Amazon products, their commission is much smaller and payout is much slower. This guy is 5 minuets from my house (weekly), that's 5 minuets closer than the bank!
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Pete,

    Why do all the work on his website?

    Why not have an agreement where you own a domain and he provides the products? Then, if you do dip below your "quota," he is free to go out and hire another SEO and Marketing guy.... While you still have the legal right to sell his products...

    If you don't meet your "quota," your parting is a "win-win"....

    He "wins" because he can go and find someone he thinks is "better"..... AND you still continue to sell his products...

    You "win" because you build up "equity" and continue to reap the benefits of your work.....

    Take Care,

    Rich Beck
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

      Pete,

      Why do all the work on his website?

      Why not have an agreement where you own a domain and he provides the products? Then, if you do dip below your "quota," he is free to go out and hire another SEO and Marketing guy.... While you still have the legal right to sell his products...

      If you don't meet your "quota," your parting is a "win-win"....

      He "wins" because he can go and find someone he thinks is "better"..... AND you still continue to sell his products...

      You "win" because you build up "equity" and continue to reap the benefits of your work.....

      Take Care,

      Rich Beck
      Thanks Rich,

      I agree to a point, if am in control of all the offsite links, wouldn't that be the same thing basically? Two different websites would be too confusing to the user and could cost lost in conversions.
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Originally Posted by Pestew View Post

        Thanks Rich,

        I agree to a point, if am in control of all the offsite links, wouldn't that be the same thing basically? Two different websites would be too confusing to the user and could cost lost in conversions.
        Pete,

        No, it is not the same......

        Let's say you are promoting Fun Party Supplies.....

        All the links point to funpartysupplies.com........

        Your client owns funpartysupplies.com...

        He tells you to take a long walk on a short pier.....

        He hires someone else....

        Are you going to go back and change the links, change the author boxes on articles, change the description on YouTube videos, etc to point elsewhere?

        Probably not...

        Now, if you own funpartysuppliesonline.com or another website that is clearly related to his business..... You now own the site... and those links... The commission is your forever.....

        You have a standard fare affiliate contract with him that enables you to use a derivative of his website name and his branding as long as you sell his products....

        On to your confusion concern.....

        I don't think it causes confusion...... because you could simply put all the content on funpartysuppliesonline.com and when they type in funpartysupplies.com they would be redirected to funpartysuppliesonline.com.... That could be done in an obvious or not obvious manner........

        Here's the kicker.....

        Unless he has tons of "type in" traffic, this won't matter at all because the vast majority of the visitors will be there because of your marketing..... They have no clue if the "official" business name is "Fun Party Supplies" or "Fun Party Supplies Online." They don't care.... They want party supplies....

        Even if they know the "official" business name, most people understand a business named "Fun Party Supplies" may have a website named funpartysuppliesonline.com for a variety of reasons. When they see the branding, they'll know they are on the right website.

        God Bless,

        Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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        • Profile picture of the author Pestew
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Pete,

          No, it is not the same......

          Let's say you are promoting Fun Party Supplies.....

          All the links point to funpartysupplies.com........

          Your client owns funpartysupplies.com...

          He tells you to take a long walk on a short pier.....

          He hires someone else....

          Are you going to go back and change the links, change the author boxes on articles, change the description on YouTube videos, etc to point elsewhere?

          Probably not...

          Now, if you own funpartysuppliesonline.com or another website that is clearly related to his business..... You now own the site... and those links... The commission is your forever.....

          You have a standard fare affiliate contract with him that enables you to use a derivative of his website name and his branding as long as you sell his products....

          On to your confusion concern.....

          I don't think it causes confusion...... because you could simply put all the content on funpartysuppliesonline.com and when they type in funpartysupplies.com they would be redirected to funpartysuppliesonline.com.... That could be done in an obvious or not obvious manner........

          Here's the kicker.....

          Unless he has tons of "type in" traffic, this won't matter at all because the vast majority of the visitors will be there because of your marketing..... They have no clue if the "official" business name is "Fun Party Supplies" or "Fun Party Supplies Online." They don't care.... They want party supplies....

          Even if they know the "official" business name, most people understand a business named "Fun Party Supplies" may have a website named funpartysuppliesonline.com for a variety of reasons. When they see the branding, they'll know they are on the right website.

          God Bless,

          Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
          Wow, thanks again Rich for taking so much of your time explaining this to me in such depth!!

          Excellent advise, I now understand and completely agree with you. That makes perfect sense and I don't see any reason he would not be okay with that.

          I should be able to make a carbon copy of his HTML site in WP, add content and link my purchase page to his purchase page. Hope that works... :rolleyes:

          -Pete
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          • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
            Originally Posted by Pestew View Post

            Wow, thanks again Rich for taking so much of your time explaining this to me in such depth!!

            Excellent advise, I now understand and completely agree with you. That makes perfect sense and I don't see any reason he would not be okay with that.

            I should be able to make a carbon copy of his HTML site in WP, add content and link my purchase page to his purchase page. Hope that works... :rolleyes:

            -Pete
            Pete,

            You are very welcome, my friend!

            Unless it is a massive e-commerce website, I would build the new one in WP.....

            God Bless,

            Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author geek1659
    Hi
    You are getting some great suggestions. And you seem open to thinking outside the box for that along you should be complemented. Do keep in mind that "old direct marketing guys" must be aware of the New World we all live in. And not all of them played fair in their old world. Good Luck
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    • Profile picture of the author Pestew
      Originally Posted by geek1659 View Post

      Hi
      You are getting some great suggestions. And you seem open to thinking outside the box for that along you should be complemented. Do keep in mind that "old direct marketing guys" must be aware of the New World we all live in. And not all of them played fair in their old world. Good Luck
      Excellent point, much appreciated, Geek. I'm starting to put the contract together now and will definitely keep that in mind. Hopefully, this could be the beginning "New World" for me.

      Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Pestew
    I wanted to express my gratitude to everyone for their much valued input on this thread so far. I'm going to go for the gusto here so just trying to put this contract together while keeping all the suggestions in mind. I will come back to update the results if anyone is interested.

    - Pete
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshMcNary
    Imo, he wants someone to do permanent work for him then take it from them should it become anything less than spectactular, even for a temporary amount of time.

    The difference this and direct sales is that when the direct salesman goes, they don't leave behind a residual asset. In this case, you would leave behind an asset (free SEO work for a year for instance).

    It should be a permanent contract for all sales made ever. The only thing that going beneath some sales threshold might reasonably break is something like an exclusivity clause.

    I agree that there is no reason for him to make it so risky for you other than a reasonable opportunity to recive free work/assets.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Tell the guy he is nuts. If you are selling 100 units in 12 months, he is getting 100 units more than he would have without you, so you deserve your commission. His plan is ripping you off for the work you have put in, and the business he is getting, even though he isn't getting as much as he wants.

    Renegotiate.
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    Tim Pears

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