by lpalad
13 replies
  • SEO
  • |
If a site has EXTREME VERY HIGH with domain backlinks which
the total number of external links pointing to
any page on that domain including deeply nested pages.

Should i not compete with that website for key words?
#backlinsks #domain
  • Profile picture of the author m00d
    Unless you sites quality can greatly exceed the target site you will be hard pressed to overcome that many backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      It depends what sort of backlinks they are. If they're from relevant sites, that's going to be very tough competition. If they're not, it might be trivially easy. (If they're mass-submitted/auto-submitted/software-built backlinks, they might well be more of a liability than a help to the site).

      It doesn't have all that much to do with "numbers of backlinks", in other words: it's actually about quality and relevance. (Most things in internet marketing are!). You can see this for yourself from the way that sites with few backlinks (relevant ones!) are outranking sites with thousands or tens of thousands of crappy backlinks, in Google's SERP's.

      This is the place to discuss it, anyway: Adsense / PPC / SEO Discussion Forum
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      • Profile picture of the author Kush Sharma
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It depends what sort of backlinks they are. If they're from relevant sites, that's going to be very tough competition. If they're not, it might be trivially easy. (If they're mass-submitted/auto-submitted/software-built backlinks, they might well be more of a liability than a help to the site).

        It doesn't have all that much to do with "numbers of backlinks", in other words: it's actually about quality and relevance. (Most things in internet marketing are!).

        This is the place to discuss it, anyway: Adsense / PPC / SEO Discussion Forum
        No matter how high the number is? So something like 17k but with poor quality, beatable?
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        • Profile picture of the author Haroon Ballim
          Do u have the time to analyse 17 000 backlinks to see how many are good quality . Seems like a time consuming exercise . Your time may be better used elsewhere

          Originally Posted by GoonerPride View Post

          No matter how high the number is? So something like 17k but with poor quality, beatable?
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          • Profile picture of the author Kush Sharma
            Originally Posted by Haroon Ballim View Post

            Do u have the time to analyse 17 000 backlinks to see how many are good quality . Seems like a time consuming exercise . Your time may be better used elsewhere
            But a lot of times, a large chunk of links comes from single referring domains, so it might not be that time consuming to analyze
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  • Profile picture of the author lpalad
    you guys are right!

    One website has over a 1 million backlinks which is ranking number two in Google page
    but one site ranking 6th on the Google page has only 686 backlinks...

    ..........two different sites competing for four word phrase but the 6th has small number of backlinks still made it to the first page of google.....

    Observation: the site that is listed 6th on google page, has very good content and its URL Head is optimized, whereas the site rank number one has all adds in it less quality content.

    Comes down to quality content and relevance of key words to the site?

    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author MktCoach
    Links have different values in Google's eyes. So, you can have situations where 100,000 of "one" kind of links may be worth less than - literally - a dozen of "another" kind.

    In MOST cases, when sites have THOUSANDS of links to their various pages, you can be 99.99% sure that their links are worthless. And this means that if you stick to QUALITY linking, you should be able to beat them easily.
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    • Profile picture of the author lpalad
      Originally Posted by MktCoach View Post

      Links have different values in Google's eyes. So, you can have situations where 100,000 of "one" kind of links may be worth less than - literally - a dozen of "another" kind.

      In MOST cases, when sites have THOUSANDS of links to their various pages, you can be 99.99% sure that their links are worthless. And this means that if you stick to QUALITY linking, you should be able to beat them easily.
      How do you describe a site with good quality content? What do you look for? How does Google knows that such site has a good quality content?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by GoonerPride View Post

        No matter how high the number is? So something like 17k but with poor quality, beatable?
        Easily, for me.

        Especially other affiliate marketers' sites. Long experience has taught me that the owners of such sites have typically taken a quantitative approach to off-page SEO, typically being interested in "numbers of backlinks" and "page ranks" rather than in the relevance of the sites (not the pages!) on which the backlinks appear. I know that such sites are usually very easy to outrank with far lower numbers of the types of backlinks I get from my article syndication. I do very little off-page SEO but I'm gradually acquiring highly relevant backlinks from sites with substantial vocabulary overlap (i.e. commonality of keywords) with my own and easily outranking sites with thousands of "directory backlinks", "forum profile backlinks", "blog network backlinks" and generally all the sort of backlinks one sees being bought and sold online.

        Originally Posted by Haroon Ballim View Post

        Do u have the time to analyse 17 000 backlinks to see how many are good quality .
        No, one doesn't. But with just a little bit of judgment and experience, one actually develops a knack - without doing all that! - of telling whether a site's owned by someone whose approach to off-page SEO has been a "quantitative" or a "qualitative" one. This is all it really boils down to.

        I don't pretend that this "method of judging" is 100% reliable, of course, but it's been extremely useful to me, over the years, and the more Google amends its algorithms to reward quality at the expense of quantity (which it does very regularly and says it will continue to do so), the more useful it gets.

        Originally Posted by Haroon Ballim View Post

        Your time may be better used elsewhere
        It depends how much time you're taking with this. I tend to do it once only and quite quickly, when I'm starting off a new niche and want to draw up a list of "possible keywords" for it.

        I don't disagree with you, overall, because ultimately all "keyword research" can bring you is search engine traffic, which, for me, is the worst and least-converting kind of traffic I can ever get for any of my niche sites anyway. I'd rather have it than not have it. I can't put it much more strongly than that, though.

        Originally Posted by lpalad View Post

        One website has over a 1 million backlinks which is ranking number two in Google page but one site ranking 6th on the Google page has only 686 backlinks...

        ..........two different sites competing for four word phrase but the 6th has small number of backlinks still made it to the first page of google.....
        Yes, such observations are very common and perfectly valid.

        Originally Posted by lpalad View Post

        Comes down to quality content and relevance of key words to the site?
        Relevance of the vocabulary/keywords of the site on which the backlink appears to the page linked to; yes.

        This is a big part of the reason why a backlink from an Ezine Articles article to your own site is worthless. The page in EZA on which the backlink appears will be on exactly the same subject as your website, of course, but EZA itself, overall, isn't.

        I regularly see pages listed with 100 or so top-quality, top-relevance backlinks which I know I can't so easily beat, but other pages listed with tens of thousands of backlinks which I know will be no problem at all for me.

        It's possible that they might have 100 brilliant backlinks "in there" among their tens of thousands of backlinks, and I'll never notice that, but it's actually very unlikely, because people who've taken a quantitative approach are usually people who genuinely don't understand how linkjuice is determined at all, and they need hold no threat/fear for you. Normally!

        My rule of thumb is that if a site has what I strongly suspect to be "bought links", I'll beat it effortlessly just by getting my articles syndicated. Again, it's not 100% reliable, but it's done very well for me.

        Originally Posted by lpalad View Post

        How do you describe a site with good quality content? What do you look for? How does Google knows that such site has a good quality content?
        I think Google generally works it out "mechanically", by measurable and objective parameters, but maybe not exclusively so. I suspect nobody can answer this question with certainty. "You learn to tell". If you have an "arthritis site" and your competitor has backlinks from the Mayo Clinic and WebMD and rheumatology departments of teaching hospitals, you're probably in trouble. If it has thousands of backlinks from article directories, url directories and forum profile backlinks, you just assume they won't trouble you at all, and you'll usually be right. :confused:

        Originally Posted by MktCoach View Post

        In MOST cases, when sites have THOUSANDS of links to their various pages, you can be 99.99% sure that their links are worthless. And this means that if you stick to QUALITY linking, you should be able to beat them easily.
        This. Exactly.
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      • Profile picture of the author MktCoach
        Originally Posted by lpalad View Post

        How do you describe a site with good quality content? What do you look for? How does Google knows that such site has a good quality content?
        Good question. You have two levels on which you determine "quality". For the HUMAN user, it's all about information, knowledge, entertainment - whatever. Real value. For the BOT user (a web spider, for example) - i.e. a program which collects your content and then passes it on to the master program which evaluates it - it's a checklist of factors which form part of its algorithm.

        Knowing what those factors are is the HEART of SEO. SEO is in effect an effort to back-engineer a Search Engine's algorithm, in an effort to "please" it enough for it to rank our content higher than others.

        Over time and with experience, as well as through official policy announcements by the likes of Google, people have figured out what "quality" means. And as time goes by and revisions pile up - it's a more and more complex thing.

        But some things are obvious. Quality, to a bot, means "relevance" and "authority" - in broadest of strokes.

        Now, the tricky part is HOW does the program figure out either of those? Well, "relevance", for example, is assessed, among others, by an analysis of words on the page, while "authority" is established by looking at which other sites refer to your page as well as which sites your page refers to.

        This is VERY over-simplified, but it does give you the basic idea. I learned the most about this from an obscure WSO called SEOlater right here on WF. But there's SO MUCH written about all this. The more you study it, the more it will fall into place.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProSence
    Forget your competitors, do your own, this would help you.. and linking to all your competitor backlinks is not good SEO technique, Google would see that two website has the same link profile.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ProSence View Post

      Forget your competitors, do your own
      I rather admire this philosophy, but in reality having a look at your potential top competitors' backlinks is one of the ways that people (including even people as uninterested in SEO as I am) use to select their keywords in the first place ... ("just saying") ...
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      • Profile picture of the author kaytav
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I rather admire this philosophy, but in reality having a look at your potential top competitors' backlinks is one of the ways that people (including even people as uninterested in SEO as I am) use to select their keywords in the first place ... ("just saying") ...
        Even I would suggest to do your own SEO. But then, a little bit of help from a competitor research can sometimes help you rank well in Google. It's good to have a look at your competitor's backlinks to get an idea what type of linking he is doing.
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