Why the panic? Link building can be simple.

12 years ago

Firstly, automated in the spam-like sense = IMO, no-no. From doing this (SEO, obviously ) over the last eight years, I've found the vast majority of automated approaches to be either 1. short lived or 2. downright pointless.

3 Or you just don't know how to operate the software, if you have more then 10 sites it will be a bitch to do all the backlinking manually...

Blaming automated tools for poor quality backlinks is the same as blaming car companies for all the deaths in traffic accidents.

It is the people who operate the car who are responsible, just the same as with automated tools, if you use Senuke and you just drop in some crap scraped content and try to post that to as much sites as you can than yeah automated tools are crap because the operator doesn't know how to work with the tool.

But i have seen some awsome stuff being done with tools like Senuke and sick submitter because they knew how to operate them. long story short, blame the operator for crappy shit you find everywhere, not the tool it is done with.

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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

But i have seen some awsome stuff being done with tools like Senuke and sick submitter because they knew how to operate them. long story short, blame the operator for crappy shit you find everywhere, not the tool it is done with.

I'm sure you've seen some cool stuff being done with automated tools....

...but I disagree with the fact that Senuke and sick submitter can give you long-term rankings.

I spent A LOT of time reverse engineering sites that are sitting at the top of competitive keywords (and have been there for a while).

And I haven't seen a single site ranking with social bookmarks, web 2.0s or the other links automated stuff gets you.

The best links you can get are from authoritative sites in your niche.

Let's say you're in the SEO niche...

...how the hell is a piece of software going to get you links from SEOMoz and Search Engine Journal?

That's the part of automation I don't understand: if it can't get you the links that rank you long-term, what's the point?

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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Backlinko

I'm sure you've seen some cool stuff being done with automated tools....

...but I disagree with the fact that Senuke and sick submitter can give you long-term rankings.

I spent A LOT of time reverse engineering sites that are sitting at the top of competitive keywords (and have been there for a while).

And I haven't seen a single site ranking with social bookmarks, web 2.0s or the other links automated stuff gets you.

The best links you can get are from authoritative sites in your niche.

Let's say you're in the SEO niche...

...how the hell is a piece of software going to get you links from SEOMoz and Search Engine Journal?

That's the part of automation I don't understand: if it can't get you the links that rank you long-term, what's the point?

Using the tools out of the box for high competition keywords is ridiculous cus you will be up against high lever programmers with their own little toys... but i have to disagree about the long-term, again it all depends on the operator.

Just spamming wont do indeed, but you can use the tools (especially SEnuke) to create high quality networks of blogs and web 2.0 properties that can last you for years, the options to automatically update and backlink them are great tools in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

That you don't see these links back in high competition keywords, doesn't mean it doesn't work and also SEOMoz is just a tool that will find a small piece of all the backlinks, just like all the other backlink checker tools.

So to say tools like Senuke, Sick submitter, GSA etc have no long term results based on what you have found on SEOMoz is for me not enough proof though. I have great longterm results with them, a lot of the web 2.0 networks i have build with Senuke (when i was still a member) are still up and running and having PR, comments, ratings etc, and the links coming from them are great.

Again it is not the tool itself, it is the tool behind the tool that screws it up, people expect that it is a one click solution while it isn't, for these tools to become valuable, you have to go true the learning curve, most people are to lazy and blame the tool.

I don't, i blame the lazy tool operator.

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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

...but i have to disagree about the long-term, again it all depends on the operator.

So to say tools like Senuke, Sick submitter, GSA etc have no long term results based on what you have found on SEOMoz is for me not enough proof though. I have great longterm results with them, a lot of the web 2.0 networks i have build with Senuke (when i was still a member) are still up and running and having PR, comments, ratings etc, and the links coming from them are great.

I don't, i blame the lazy tool operator.

Actually, I use ahrefs for link reverse engineering, not OSE.

Either way, I'm glad you've had success with automation.

Like you said, it's all about the many behind the tool...and it sounds like you know your stuff and have found long-term success with it.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Using the tools out of the box for high competition keywords is ridiculous cus you will be up against high lever programmers with their own little toys... but i have to disagree about the long-term, again it all depends on the operator.

Doesn't really matter whether you agree or not. Its a matter of what the serps show. I have yet to see a truly competitive serp with those links driving the top rankings. For all the months I have been hearing how great Senuke is in the right hands (ego claim as if there is a great mystery to tiered link building) I have never seen its defenders show such a serp. It almost always turns out to be some weak long tail especially post penguin. This has nothing at all to do with Seomoz. There are multiple backlinking tools that confirm better links are required in competitive serps.

to create high quality networks of blogs and web 2.0 properties that can last you for years, the options to automatically update and backlink them are great tools in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

tired of this claim. Its just false. Again there is no great mystery or expertise in tier linkbuilding. Senuke is a piece of link building software (and terribly overpriced at that - better and cheaper alternatives) not some kit for rocket science so all this talk like it requires some great expertise in the "right hands" is just wrong. Few videos is all thats needed.

Yes through tiered linkbuilding and web 2.0s you can build a on the weaker side network. It has some real benefit but with better links than what senuke provides you will do FAAAAR better. Put a few PBN links in the mix gives diversity and beats the junk out of backing web 2.0s with other n/a links.

I have nothing against automation. I am always trying to automate my network more. The issue is not the automation -its that building a network with just a bunch of N/As isn't efficient unless you are backing it up from pages that have real authority. There are two dirty secrets people don't talk about with this approach

A) Web 2.0 networks bleed links like no tomorrow. Links on all the tiers are being deleted and no followed all the time so you never know what the real PR is and you need to keep paying Senuke to continue to blast them or you will have no juice in no time.
B) only some web 2.0s ever have the capacity to pass on real juice. People routinely ignore the OBL issue. Doesn't matter that you have a PR3 property if its on a web 2.0 service that adds a bunch of its own links its a big problem. You won't get as much juice from them

I don't, i blame the lazy tool operator.

The tool is designed for laziness. That is the tool developers fault and thats how they sell it and advertise ot. Their recorder is nifty but theres better in the market, The weird thing is - the people who pay $150 a month would over even 6 months build more powerful networks with the extra cash than they ever would with Senuke.

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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Doesn't really matter whether you agree or not. Its a matter of what the serps show. I have yet to see a truly competitive serp with those links driving the top rankings. For all the months I have been hearing how great Senuke is in the right hands (ego claim as if there is a great mystery to tiered link building) I have never seen its defenders show such a serp. It almost always turns out to be some weak long tail especially post penguin. This has nothing at all to do with Seomoz. There are multiple backlinking tools that confirm better links are required in competitive serps.

These tools you refer to are only showing a little piece of all the backlinks out there, and yes in the right hands any tool is just as good as they would do it manually... If you want to rank for buy viagra or payday loan, than sure, you probably wont find ant links created by Senuke/SM/Sick Submitter, as the competition is to fierce with all the pro with their own little tools...

tired of this claim. Its just false. Again there is no great mystery or expertise in tier linkbuilding. Senuke is a piece of link building software (and terribly overpriced at that - better and cheaper alternatives) not some kit for rocket science so all this talk like it requires some great expertise in the "right hands" is just wrong. Few videos is all thats needed.

There is no mystery in building tiered links, i am just stating that crappy results isn't the fault o the tool, in this case Senuke, but it could have been any tool for that matter. And i agree hat there are better and cheaper alternatives for Senuke that will get you the same results, like GSA and magic submitter. Or a VA like i have now.. it only cost $100 more, but it really understands what i want and doesn't crash

Yes through tiered linkbuilding and web 2.0s you can build a on the weaker side network. It has some real benefit but with better links than what senuke provides you will do FAAAAR better. Put a few PBN links in the mix gives diversity and beats the junk out of backing web 2.0s with other n/a links.

Sure a view PBN links will kick ass with any web 2.0 link, the thing is that not everyone can afford or need such an expensive network and i would not buy links on any of the so cold private networks... 99% are scammers or getting your shit deindexed (i have had some shitty experience with link sellers, costing me a lot of money and rankings)

I have nothing against automation. I am always trying to automate my network more. The issue is not the automation -its that building a network with just a bunch of N/As isn't efficient unless you are backing it up from pages that have real authority. There are two dirty secrets people don't talk about with this approach

I disagree with that, if you start to build web 2.0 networks then they are N/A, but of you build them right and promote them they will get PR and become a valuable asset

I have lots of those niche networks build over the years and i am very happy with the results i get from them. But if you need instant gratification well you need to buy yourself some High PR links with all the risk involved.

A) Web 2.0 networks bleed links like no tomorrow. Links on all the tiers are being deleted and no followed all the time so you never know what the real PR is and you need to keep paying Senuke to continue to blast them or you will have no juice in no time.

I have no problem with nofollow links, i really don't get why people try to steer away from them, you will need them in your backlink profile than why not from some sites/properties you control (somewhat) 100% do follow will raise a red flag imho.

B) only some web 2.0s ever have the capacity to pass on real juice. People routinely ignore the OBL issue. Doesn't matter that you have a PR3 property if its on a web 2.0 service that adds a bunch of its own links its a big problem. You won't get as much juice from them

I agree, that is a huge downside of web 2.0 properties, i try to select the select the properties that don't have a lot of PR leakage, but your right on that... it sucks

The tool is designed for laziness. That is the tool developers fault and thats how they sell it and advertise ot. Their recorder is nifty but theres better in the market, The weird thing is - the people who pay $150 a month would over even 6 months build more powerful networks with the extra cash than they ever would with Senuke.

The tool makes most IMers lazy and that is why they have crappy results, they grab content from Ezine, have the bestspinner autospin it, add 5/10 backlinks, if they feel like it they will add an image, after account creation this crap is posted and than they expect miracles, not going to happen...

But imho you can't blame the tool for that.

I still have a lot of joy from my web 2.0 stuff that i build with Senuke, now i have a VA that does the same thing but better...

And don't get me wrong i am not here to defend Senuke or any other tool, my point is just that the results of using a backlink tool really depends on who is controlling it.

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Ettienne 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

There are multiple backlinking tools that confirm better links are required in competitive serps.

Ain't that the truth
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paulgl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Backlinko

Let's say you're in the SEO niche...

...how the hell is a piece of software going to get you links from SEOMoz and Search Engine Journal?

That's the part of automation I don't understand: if it can't get you the links that rank you long-term, what's the point?

ROTFLMAO! That's so spot on, it's dang funny seeing it here.

The OP is talking work and lots of it. People hate that word. They don't
like learning and they don't like work.

If people knew how the internet worked, they would think long term more
often, and not instant gratification.

A good plumber needs no links. He's advertising. He could care less about
links. He doesn't even need a website.

Paul

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Gareth Mailer 12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Blaming automated tools for poor quality backlinks is the same as blaming car companies for all the deaths in traffic accidents.

Of course it's not. Using "automated tools" (I'm speaking generally here which probably isn't fair, however I'm also doing that for the purposes of brevity) is like driving a three-wheeler and expecting not to tip over at some point. It's going to happen and probably a lot sooner than you imagine.

Search engines are ultimately looking for balanced link profiles (which I feel is something we can ALL agree on); most websites which utilise these tools have next to no backlink profiles pointing in i.e. next to no "decent" links to absorp the manipulative activity, ergo the "less-ethical" link building stands out a mile off.

I think speaking on the basis of probability (which is what SEO is all about i.e. balancing risk and trying to produce a favorable outcome), you are far more likely to incur some form of ranking drop, even with careful manipulation, using SENuke, or any other tool i.e. Magic Submitter etc, than you would following the traditional unique content/guest posting route - again, it's the difference between blatantly obvious, obvious and seemingly "natural" link building. Again, it is ALWAYS about maximising the probability for success, however, IMO, there are far simpler ways to gain additional visibility in search than simply relying on "tools".
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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Do you literally ask them to put a link to your site as well? Most testimonial pages that I visited so far do not contain links.

Time to launch up Scrapebox to explore the possibilities.

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Gareth Mailer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

Do you literally ask them to put a link to your site as well? Most testimonial pages that I visited so far do not contain links.

Time to launch up Scrapebox to explore the possibilities.

A lot don't, but a lot do too - see the above listed AWeber.com page, now the odds are fairly remote on getting something accepted there, however it's just an example (PR 5 I think for what it's worth).

It's definitely worth doing a scrape - it's one of the two things I get the apprentice on (there are apprentice schemes in the UK which are backed by the Gov't i.e. you can hire an apprentice for £450 per month, full time - bargain!).

If you want to take that kind of link building further and you're feeling a little bit "less ethical" (note I'm not recommending this, just talking), try scraping for "links" pages i.e. inurl:links - they will of course ask your for a reciprocal link, and you provide one on your links page; however, to mitigate again any REAL exchange of value (from the search engine's perspective at least), disallow the links page via robots.txt, and make sure it's not linked to from any other section on your site.

The above is more time intensive and in my experience, not as effective as the mass-testimonials route for acquiring links - it depends on how you approach it though, we haven't put much time into it to date and I wouldn't do it for our main website, mainly due to the ethical implications/our reputation.

In fairness, our most effective offline method to date has simply been calling contacts and packaging deals to get links from them - there has to be two sides to any deal, however you just have to package it in a way that ensure you get a one-way link i.e. offering free content, offering a non-time-intensive free service.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Gareth Mailer

A lot don't, but a lot do too - see the above listed AWeber.com page, now the odds are fairly remote on getting something accepted there, however it's just an example (PR 5 I think for what it's worth).

It's definitely worth doing a scrape - it's one of the two things I get the apprentice on (there are apprentice schemes in the UK which are backed by the Gov't i.e. you can hire an apprentice for £450 per month, full time - bargain!).

I mostly work with VA's so I would have to pre setup emails for them to send out and obvious I would also have to hire a writer to create some great testimonials, talking about unethical here lol.

Originally Posted by Gareth Mailer

If you want to take that kind of link building further and you're feeling a little bit "less ethical" (note I'm not recommending this, just talking), try scraping for "links" pages i.e. inurl:links - they will of course ask your for a reciprocal link, and you provide one on your links page; however, to mitigate again any REAL exchange of value (from the search engine's perspective at least), disallow the links page via robots.txt, and make sure it's not linked to from any other section on your site.

Not very fair indeed, I have a large network of sites so I can always link from another site to them in exchange for one. Why would someone like me be interested in link exchanges? Simply to get some relevant links for certain clients that pay a bit better then most. Also if I would rank my own SEO site I would not want to use my private network.

Originally Posted by Gareth Mailer

In fairness, our most effective offline method to date has simply been calling contacts and packaging deals to get links from them - there has to be two sides to any deal, however you just have to package it in a way that ensure you get a one-way link i.e. offering free content, offering a non-time-intensive free service.

When you wrote that first post the first thing that came up in my mind are my customers. I bet most would be happy with a PR4 or PR5 link in return for a link from their PR2-PR3 site.

Actually I should do these kind of link exchanges much more often. I am going to try if I can get it a bit more automated in some way. Right now it's not really necessary for me but sometimes I come up with idea's that my network would not be large enough for and then it would be very handy to get a link from elsewhere.

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online only

12 years ago

The thing is.. When you have some what legit site then you can simply ask for links.. Most of the people who have blogs don't know #/(¤"&! about IM/SEO. They will most likely place your link to their site if they think it's useful for his/her readers.

However, it's a whole different case when you have a site like "enlargeurpenis.com","getmoney666.com" or "best-clickbank-product.info"... So yeah. It's much easier to get backlinks when you create a decent site with somewhat helpful content. Otherwise you need to spam at maximum level and use all kind of different public blog networks,seo tools and services.

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rjames 12 years ago

automated tool are awesome...IF IF IF you know how to use them...Google has no clue whether a human built the link or an automated program...the difference lies in the how the campaigns are setup in the tools...fact is, most have no clue how to build links manually and the correct concepts behind it, so why would they know how to use automation? they dont! THATS the issue...not the tools...
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yukon Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Backlinko

The best links you can get are from authoritative sites in your niche.

I've said that on this forum before. The added benefit is existing direct niche traffic, the whole point of creating links in the first place. I realize this would never work for the guys with crap sites.

Originally Posted by online only

The thing is.. When you have some what legit site then you can simply ask for links..

Agreed link building is easier when you have a worthy site to begin with, traffic will/does also build links for legit sites.
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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by online only

So yeah. It's much easier to get backlinks when you create a decent site with somewhat helpful content. Otherwise you need to spam at maximum level and use all kind of different public blog networks,seo tools and services.

This x1000.

Once you make a professional, branded site A LOT of link building doors open up for you.

I've built spammy MFAs along the lines of toasterreviewsx.com...and you're limited with what you can do with them.

Eventually, you turn to spam.

But once you create a real, legit-looking site, you have a thousand-and-one link building strategies at your disposal.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

How a quality thread can so easily turn into a total bunch of crap!

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YellowGreenMedia 12 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

How a quality thread can so easily turn into a total bunch of crap!

Why, because you disagree?
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- nik0 Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia
  
  Why, because you disagree?
  
  I said that the quality of the thread went down hugely, the OP came up with some very solid link building methods and then guys like you come up with garbage links from SEnukeX and a total nonsense story about skills of how to master the software.
  
  Go fool some noobs ok, if you want further explanations read the posts from Mike A and the OP again.
  
  The only thing I can say: "Hagenezen weten 't altijd beter" whether it's true or not.
  
  You can reply what you want but for me it's a subject that's not even worth it to discuss.
  
  Last thing: PR n/a remains PR n/a no matter how many tiers, and PR3 blog comments divided by 1000 OBL comes pretty close to PR n/a. Not to mention the stick rate of such links. Damn now I still did it. Anyway 'nuff said, any counter argument is just based on nonsense. Facts are facts, you can't get around that.
  
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  YellowGreenMedia 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nik0
  
  The only thing I can say: "Hagenezen weten 't altijd beter" whether it's true or not.
  
  It is true in this case....
  
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seoace

12 years ago

IMO, 1 of the main reason people panic from a drop in rankings,traffic,etc is because we have no idea what is causing the drop due to the mysterious search engine algorithms.

If we had solid proof of what cause the drops, there won't be as much panic as today.

But if we had solid proof or knowledge on their algorithms then Google, Yahoo, etc will just change to prevent us from "gaming" their algorithm.

It's just part of the SEO game.

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nightrider85 12 years ago

Link building can be simple if do it right way. The first part that we need to consider is content of the site. If the content has no value to the reader, no matter how much backlinks you've created and traffic came at your site but if the bounce rate is 99% what's the point?

Well if you have a great content that helps you reader to solve their problems of course they would create backlinks for you for free.

Promotion is a wide topic depending on how you do it. It's very important to know who're your reader and what they want and where they could be found online.
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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Great content getting linked is a myth, sorry... but there are millions of sites with "great content" that will never see the light of day... if you want to rank you will need to create the links....

How your going to rank a plumber site, writing about a blocked sewage and hoping that your content is so great that people will link to you so that you can rank your site for plumber + New York, totally unrealistic, and i can give you examples all day long of subjects that people will not link to no matter how "great" your content is.

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nik0

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Great content getting linked is a myth, sorry... but there are millions of sites with "great content" that will never see the light of day... if you want to rank you will need to create the links....

How your going to rank a plumber site, writing about a blocked sewage and hoping that your content is so great that people will link to you so that you can rank your site for plumber + New York, totally unrealistic, and i can give you examples all day long of subjects that people will not link to no matter how "great" your content is.

There is a higher chance that great content gets natural links then poor content. Obvious not on a plumber site, unless it's a very funny story or some exciting experience with the lady of the house.

Anyway, that doesn't mean you have to turn into spammy link building methods with 10,000's of links.

Ever heard of buying high PR domains and setting up a private network for ranking purpose. Way more effective and in the long run even cheaper.

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Gareth Mailer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Great content getting linked is a myth, sorry... but there are millions of sites with "great content" that will never see the light of day... if you want to rank you will need to create the links....

Where has Nik0 mentioned anything about utilizing on-site content creation for links?

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

How your going to rank a plumber site, writing about a blocked sewage and hoping that your content is so great that people will link to you so that you can rank your site for plumber + New York, totally unrealistic, and i can give you examples all day long of subjects that people will not link to no matter how "great" your content is.

You're not. There are tons of more direct LB alternatives to this, some have been mentioned in this thread.

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PerformanceMan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Great content getting linked is a myth, sorry... but there are millions of sites with "great content" that will never see the light of day... if you want to rank you will need to create the links....

How your going to rank a plumber site, writing about a blocked sewage and hoping that your content is so great that people will link to you so that you can rank your site for plumber + New York, totally unrealistic, and i can give you examples all day long of subjects that people will not link to no matter how "great" your content is.

With all due respect, are you even qualified to judge what 'great content' is?

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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Great content getting linked is a myth, sorry... but there are millions of sites with "great content" that will never see the light of day... if you want to rank you will need to create the links....

How your going to rank a plumber site, writing about a blocked sewage and hoping that your content is so great that people will link to you so that you can rank your site for plumber + New York, totally unrealistic, and i can give you examples all day long of subjects that people will not link to no matter how "great" your content is.

It's true that great content rarely gets naturally linked to...

The thing most people don't get is that great content opens up completely new link building strategies.

Let's use your example of the plumbing site:

If I ran a site like that I'd make a killer page with DIY plumbing videos along with written step-by-step instructions. I might even make an infographic about common plumbing problems people face.

Then I'd type this into Google:

And email the owners of these resource pages about my amazing plumbing resource.

In 30-seconds I found 3 pages that would probably link to me, like this one:

Scaled up to hundreds of pages, that's literally all the link building you need to get going.

The thing is, this is the EXACT type of link Google wants to see: a super niche-relevant link on a page with a bit or PR (PR2 in the above example). NOT web 2.0 blogspot blogs.

Once you get some momentum you can start doing other stuff, like guest posting, blog networks etc.

The takeaway lesson is that good content doesn't build quality links automatically...but you can leverage content to get quality links.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Great content getting linked is a myth, sorry... but there are millions of sites with "great content" that will never see the light of day... if you want to rank you will need to create the links....

lol...ignorance is bliss. Too much SEO training by WSO and product launches

How your going to rank a plumber site, writing about a blocked sewage and hoping that your content is so great that people will link to you so that you can rank your site for plumber + New York, totally unrealistic,

Really? unrealistic eh? I guess it must be true that no one will link to a plumber in New York.

Plumber in Ohio would not link to another plumber in the big apple.
state specific business directories will not link to a plumber in the state
plumbers associations sites won't link to plumbers in New York
Tool providers will not link to businesses that buy from them
hardware providers will not link to customers
Home repair sites will not link to a good plumber in New York
Plumbers can't write content on public health that anyone would want to link to
Plumbers never do work in buildings by companies that would link to them
Plumbers don't associate and develop relationships with carpenters and electricians that would link to them.
Plumbers never work with contractors that would link to them
Plumbers never involve themselves in charities that would link to them as supporters
Plumbers develop no business friendships
Plumbers never network with other professions

totally unrealistic, and i can give you examples all day long of subjects that people will not link to no matter how "great" your content is.

and I will give you a list of examples all day long as I just did why you are wrong.

Truth is really solid and practical SEO has both self created links AND links earned from others

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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

lol...ignorance is bliss. Too much SEO training by WSO and product launches

Nah not really, just thinking logical

Really? unrealistic eh? I guess it must be true that no one will link to a plumber in New York.

In the real world, No! (maybe a worthless facebook/twitter link)

Plumber in Ohio would not link to another plumber in the big apple.

Not likely No, why would they? Unless they have a relationship and that is not what i debating, i am debating that links will appear out of thin air because you have great plumber content on your site.

state specific business directories will not link to a plumber in the state

If the plumber doesn't sign up, No!

plumbers associations sites won't link to plumbers in New York

Again without action from a plumber, No!

Tool providers will not link to businesses that buy from them

If they have left a testimonial, sure, (but has nothing to do with linking because of the great content on the site)

hardware providers will not link to customers

If they have left a testimonial, sure, (but has nothing to do with linking because of the great content on the site)

Home repair sites will not link to a good plumber in New York

Not without action from the plumber who probably will have to pay for the link, so in the real world, Maybe some exceptions, but that is not due to his "great content" and that is what we are debating here, people linking to your site because you have great content, nothing else, no other relationship.

The WF mantra here is write great content and they will link, and i call that bullshit (excuse my french)

Plumbers can't write content on public health that anyone would want to link to

Really, plumbers writing a about public health, now you're just making stuff up LOL,

No!

Plumbers never do work in buildings by companies that would link to them

Sure that could happen, but has nothing to do with the great content on their site but with a working relationship.

Plumbers don't associate and develop relationships with carpenters and electricians that would link to them.

Sure that could happen, but has nothing to do with the great content on their site but with a working relationship.

Plumbers never work with contractors that would link to them

Sure that could happen, but has nothing to do with the great content on their site but with a working relationship.

Plumbers never involve themselves in charities that would link to them as supporters

Sure that could happen, but has nothing to do with the great content on their site but with the plumber doing something for nothing and getting a link for participating.

Plumbers develop no business friendships

Sure that could happen, but has nothing to do with the great content on their site but with a working relationship
.

Plumbers never network with other professions

Sure that could happen, but has nothing to do with the great content on their site but with a working/networking relationship.

and I will give you a list of examples all day long as I just did why you are wrong.

Really cus this list wasn't very impressive and you seem to have missed the point getting links for your great content out of thin air. Because that is what people here keep repeating.

Truth is really solid and practical SEO has both self created links AND links earned from others

I agree with that 100%, and i am not debating that, reality is that the links "earned" because of your great content are never enough to have a solid backlink profile to rank for plumber city, and the plumber will never get that with the so called "great content".

Don't get me wrong i am not saying that he should not have great content, i am saying that the amount of links you will "earn" isn't going to rank you well.

You will need other backlink tactics to get links to your site, the WF mantra of: "write great content and they will link" is just plain nonsense.

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Mike Anthony 12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

the WF mantra of: "write great content and they will link" is just plain nonsense.

Did you ever read the OP? OP does not mention anything about build it and they will come. You promote sites and every one of the tactics I cited work and they work with regard to good content ont he site because at the end of the day that closes the deal. You can claim they don't in the real world but perhaps its because you don't know how to make them work.

Meanwhile we have not been shown one competitive serp where SEnukeX is doing squat but every year we hear of sites getting tanked with the links they provide.

It has nothing to do with in the right hands etc some software is just crap for the price they charge. SenukeX is one of them. People stuck in the past swear by it but at their prices each month you could build your own high PR network and OWN link resources with real value. Its a load of Gaaar baage (and thats my french).

So yeah you have to work it and yeah some people say if you build it they will come and are wrong but this thread isn't about that and the OP said none of that
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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Really cus this list wasn't very impressive and you seem to have missed the point

Nope you missed the point and your response is underwhelming. I responded to this

if you want to rank you will need to create the links

Wrong. Go and study some serps in Google. You do not NEED to create the links if you want to rank. thousands of sites rank where the webmaster created no direct link himself. You talk about the real world but your are living in denial of what actually happens in it. So my response to you had ZIP NADA to do with content by itself getting links. It had to do with that claim that webmasters have to create the links themselves in order to rank.

The bottom line truth is that links created by yourself are the drop down most weak links unless you are doing something like building a network. Guys in particular get hung up on software because we do love our toys and we think we are james Bond because we play video games pushing buttons. There nothing magical about any knowledge of this software. That is a myth. IF you arrange toilet paper in a particular way it does not become silk. The software leaves N/A and PR ZERO links. Some version of tiered linking is all you can do with the software. Theres no Ninja secret. NO lethal hands. It sjust lining up enough spammy links to squeeze a little juice and like I said if you are paying over a hundred dollars plus a month for that garbage you might as well be building a high Pr network

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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Nope you missed the point and your response is underwhelming. I responded to this

Wrong. Go and study some serps in Google. You do not NEED to create the links if you want to rank. thousands of sites rank where the webmaster created no direct link himself. You talk about the real world but your are living in denial of what actually happens in it. So my response to you had ZIP NADA to do with content by itself getting links. It had to do with that claim that webmasters have to create the links themselves in order to rank.

The bottom line truth is that links created by yourself are the drop down most weak links unless you are doing something like building a network. Guys in particular get hung up on software because we do love our toys and we think we are james Bond because we play video games pushing buttons. There nothing magical about any knowledge of this software. That is a myth. IF you arrange toilet paper in a particular way it does not become silk. The software leaves N/A and PR ZERO links. Some version of tiered linking is all you can do with the software. Theres no Ninja secret. NO lethal hands. It sjust lining up enough spammy links to squeeze a little juice and like I said if you are paying over a hundred dollars plus a month for that garbage you might as well be building a high Pr network

I had a discussion with backlinko about the importance of Great Content and getting links out of thin air and you had to chimed in, in which i responded... I belief that i am allowed to, so i really don't get your righteous attitude...

That being sad:

You show me a local business site like a plumber or whatever that gets links by the hundreds out of thin air, cus that is what your saying right... there are thousands of local business sites that are getting links without them having to take any kind of action...

Must be a great world you life in.

I agree that you need to build networks of wen 2.0 and private domains, but those network can be build with a tool like Senuke of Magic submitter, i really don't get why your fighting me on this. Must be because of your pleasing personality i guess.

To bad that SEO can't be discussed without people mounting their high horses... Ohw well, write some great content and they will come

Greets

Dave

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

I had a discussion with backlinko about the importance of Great Content and getting links out of thin air and you had to chimed in, in which i responded...

I'm sorry . I didn't realize it was a private conversation. I could of sworn it was a forum post and Dave....you have been responding to MY posts.

You show me a local business site like a plumber or whatever that gets links by the hundreds out of thin air, cus that is what your saying right...

You are still thinking like a blast tool guy. local businesses do not need "hundreds" of links. They are looking to rank locally . Plumbers in NY are not looking for customers in LA or Paris. PLus the beautiful thing about quality links is one of them is worth hundreds of N/As. You are still in the more spammy links the merrier mode that saw many people get tanked last year.

there are thousands of local business sites that are getting links without them having to take any kind of action...

Dave you are playing a game now. I just point blank told you TWICE action needs to be taken in ANY MARKETING

I agree that you need to build networks of wen 2.0 and private domains, but those network can be build with a tool like Senuke of Magic submitter

They cannot. You are again talking about tiered link building. Yes people have built many PR2s and even some PR3 by squeezing the juice out of N/a links. Seldom have I ever seen anyone get PR5s . It gets progressively harder as you move up in authority. PR1s are drop down easy. You can squeeze enough juice for that easily. Plus you are leaving out two things that people who push this never admit to

A) Tiered link building WEB 2.0 networks lose juice DAILY as the links of their tiers they have blasted drop off, get deleted, become nofollowed (and yes in a tiered network nofollow matters - in second tier and upwards you are getting the links just to juice the first tier).

B) many web 2.0 sites leave links on your pages which bleeds the authority due to OBL factors

A third lesser factor is you have less control in certain niches because web 2.0 admins cam smell commercial intent in many subjects

MS aint bad for web 2.0s (and they have some use its just not comparable to an owned SEO network) but SEnukeX prices make it really a poor choice as you are paying for tools that will NEVER give you the link assets and authority of a high PR network with aged domains but you are racking up the dollar bills each month where you could have. Plus quit shelling out the money each month to the senuke developers and within 90 days everything you build begins to crumble due to links being removed and you no longer blasting new ones.

To bad that SEO can't be discussed without people mounting their high horses... Ohw well, write some great content and they will come

Frankly I saw a lot of high horse in your posts, implying people don't know how to use tools, what they are saying is iust BS and unimpressive but anyway if you don't want anyone to disagree with you (which seems to be your main objection) there are very many one way means to publish. Forums just are not one of them

Rock on man

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Super Warrior

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Plumber in Ohio would not link to another plumber in the big apple.
state specific business directories will not link to a plumber in the state
plumbers associations sites won't link to plumbers in New York
Tool providers will not link to businesses that buy from them
hardware providers will not link to customers
Home repair sites will not link to a good plumber in New York
Plumbers can't write content on public health that anyone would want to link to
Plumbers never do work in buildings by companies that would link to them
Plumbers don't associate and develop relationships with carpenters and electricians that would link to them.
Plumbers never work with contractors that would link to them
Plumbers never involve themselves in charities that would link to them as supporters
Plumbers develop no business friendships
Plumbers never network with other professions

His point is that writing great contents only will not give you the backlinks, you'll have to 'create' backlinks for sites like a plumber site. He never said that a plumber site won't get links from anywhere :rolleyes:

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PerformanceMan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Super Warrior

His point is that writing great contents only will not give you the backlinks, you'll have to 'create' backlinks for sites like a plumber site. He never said that a plumber site won't get links from anywhere :rolleyes:

There is no 'great content' when it comes to local plumbers. These guys fish the stuffed feces out of your toilet bowls!

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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by PerformanceMan

There is no 'great content' when it comes to local plumbers. These guys fish the stuffed feces out of your toilet bowls!

That statement shows a lack of creativity. Why can't plumbers produce killer content that generates links?

Just looked for plumbing tips in Google and found pages with decent link profiles, like this one: Plumbing Tips - DIY Projects | The Family Handyman.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Backlinko

That statement shows a lack of creativity. Why can't plumbers produce killer content that generates links?

Because they swear the only thing plumbers works on are toilets. The whole plumber thing is crap anyway. None of them are. The content only complaint was debunked long ago. The OP did not say content only. He stated very clearly

CALL people or go to networking events, exchange a bit of a service ....... There are hundreds of ways to build links online but there are thousands of ways to leverage you existing contacts and build links offline - you just need to think a little outside of the box. Build up your contact list and things will be a LOT easier.

but some people just can't read past "oh no he is putting down my favorite automat link blasting tool."

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Super Warrior

His point is that writing great contents only will not give you the backlinks, you'll have to 'create' backlinks for sites like a plumber site. He never said that a plumber site won't get links from anywhere :rolleyes:

Super try and make some sense. The bolded parts totally contradict each other :rolleyes:

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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

But why would they link to you? Unless you pay them or you own it of course

That (paying for links) seems the way things are going... or you have to develop a (web 2.0) network or you have to buy links with all the risks involved.

Just saying that only having great content will not help you to get backlinks...

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nightrider85 12 years ago

Yeah great content only is not going to get traffic...but great content is the beginning phase where we should prepare up front because once our promotion done (like backlinks, guest post, CPC, or anything), and your site getting some traffic they will share with their friends (FB like, tweet, backlinks etc) and slowly the site is going to be the authority over time. WHy don't kill two birds with a stone..just my 2 cents...
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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

But why would they link to you? Unless you pay them or you own it of course

Because that's why people make resource pages in the first place: to link out to helpful resources!

I've done this type of link begging and I can tell you that it works. You have to email hundreds of site owners (or better yet, have a VA do it).

It's a number's game. If you have a 5% response rate and email 700 people, that's 35 quality links from related sites. Those 35 links blow senuke or magic submitter links out of the water.

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Just saying that only having great content will not help you to get backlinks...

You're right: ONLY great content won't do the trick.

But it DOES help.

In fact, the way the algorithm's going, it's becoming a necessity.

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Mike Anthony 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Backlinko

I've done this type of link begging and I can tell you that it works. You have to email hundreds of site owners (or better yet, have a VA do it).

Its how link building is done outside of internet marketing forums. Theres no button to push so its ignored by marketers

Great content is not just about getting links to THAT content. Its about one of the key things in business

Reputation

and reputation DOES get links
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YellowGreenMedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Backlinko

Because that's why people make resource pages in the first place: to link out to helpful resources!

I've done this type of link begging and I can tell you that it works. You have to email hundreds of site owners (or better yet, have a VA do it).

It's a number's game. If you have a 5% response rate and email 700 people, that's 35 quality links from related sites. Those 35 links blow senuke or magic submitter links out of the water.

You're right: ONLY great content won't do the trick.

But it DOES help.

In fact, the way the algorithm's going, it's becoming a necessity.

That is a tactic i have tried and almost got my ISP banning me for spamming lol, but yes that does work, i am just kicking against the Great Content Mantra that people here keep on repeating as backlink strategy...Because it is wrong.

You should always have good content on your site, that should not even be a issue, but i keep repeating that great content doesn't magically attract high PR backlinks.

That's all

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Backlinko

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

i am just kicking against the Great Content Mantra that people here keep on repeating as backlink strategy...Because it is wrong.

You should always have good content on your site, that should not even be a issue, but i keep repeating that great content doesn't magically attract high PR backlinks.

That's all

We agree there.

You do need to put in the legwork to get links to your great content.

But great content just makes getting links that you need to rank for competitive keywords much easier.

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DPM70

12 years ago

If I had a plumbing site, I'd also be looking for links from the associated trades that I'd been working for/with like local electricians, local boiler companies, local building merchants etc. You get to know all sorts of people and most of those companies have websites. If you do a good job ask for a link in to your site. It's just like word-of-mouth reputation and recommendation in the real world. And it will work as a source of real traffic in an associated niche. No need to pull out the automation spam tools here either. Just needs some lateral thinking.

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WeavingThoughts

12 years ago

Automated tools are probably not very harmful in moderation but can't be your only option either.c

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Lanx

12 years ago

i blame fiverr and all the idiots that recommend fiverr for seo, that means 99% of all wso's.

here is a generic wso that everyone makes

"how to rank on youtube":
1. upload video
2. optimize description/title
3. goto fiverr get some backlinks to it, for 5bucks you don't have to learn seo or buy expensive softwares!!! just sort by rating

it's like, instead of saying "look you really have to know and learn seo..., you have to understand what you're making and what it can do and also potentially harm you"

they just replace it with "fiverr,fiverr,fiverr"

then it just becomes a fiverr spending spree

and guess what, it works...
for a while, then when rankings drop or gets slapped (cuz it will happen) they come here or other forums and go

"omg rankings dropped, what do i do! i need to learn soe" (mispelling intentional)

that's probably where senuke get's the most use, 1click fiverr gigs.

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greatjay

12 years ago

Nice! obviously, it is the best way to build natural links.

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DPM70

12 years ago

Mike - just leave them to it. It's becoming pointless.

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Larry Leggett

12 years ago

A good plumber needs no links. He's advertising. He could care less about
links. He doesn't even need a website.

I think you should think again about it. You are comparing a plumber with an internet marketer. No, don't get me wrong. I am not a big fan of automated SEO software. Actually I hate them. But you must need links, website if your business is internet based. No doubt about that. A plumber's business not based on internet. Though some plumbers does have website for some extra exposure but they are not solely dependent on it.

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stodog77

12 years ago

The way I look at it is, if everyone can get a link via automation or manual (free for all), then it holds very little value the majority of the time. You want to try to find links that not just any Tom, Dick, and Harry can get by pushing a button on a software program. When everyone else zigs, you want to zag. Simple as that.

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patco

12 years ago

Always manual work is recommended! You can spend 12 hours a day doing SEO, but it is worth hundreds of hours of automatic work!

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Syed Ray

12 years ago

By far the best way to acquire good links is to build your own PRIVATE blog network. I get links from PR 7 homepage's. The trend now is guest posting, so I just throw a guest post on my own websites linking to a niche website. It's the most efficient way of link building.

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HanifQ 12 years ago

I believe that anyone DEAD SERIOUS about ranking sites and MAINTAINING their rankings long-term in semi-competitive niches should focus on the following order of priority when building links:

1) HIGHEST PRIORITY - Links from good quality sites with a Mozrank of 3+, a decent Alexa ranking and a decent social following (in other words, a good quality link). Guest blogging, connecting via social media, or simply asking to buy a link are proven approaches to getting links from these sites.

2) Links that come from a Tier 1 news distribution network. (Ereleases(com) is a great source with a nice distribution network)

3) Links from private site networks that you setup by buying aged domains with atleast a pagerank of 2+ ... these sites can pass some juice to you if they're kept relevant. I probably wouldn't mess with 'reinforcing' them with high quality tier 2 links, unless you have the time and budget.

3) Links from tiered Web 2.0s and social bookmarks (these links are pretty over-rated but they can help with targeting inner pages on your site and spreading your anchor text around. Other than that, I wouldn't rely on them for long-term rankings. There is SOME EVIDENCE that these types of links can get you fast rankings, but they usually never stick unless you get better links to round out your profile)

In today's landscape, I don't think it pays to try and maintain a large network of sites with low quality content and low quality link building. I think a smaller network of sites with focused effort is your best bet......

The only time I recommend building a large network of lower quality sites is to conduct testing on which keywords are converting best for you (in terms of making money)...once your have this data in hand, focus on your winners and add some REAL VALUE to the internet!
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