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EMD question

by andrej
63 replies
  • SEO
    • |
I have a question for SEO guys concerning the Google's EMD (exact match domain) penalty. I wonder if a domain name is an EMD even if it contains just one word from my key phrase? For example if I wanted to build a website about "Internet Marketing Tutorials" and I will use a subdomain imarketing.mywebsite.com. Will I be safe with such domain? Even if it contains the keyword "marketing" and I'm targeting the keyword "Internet Marketing Tutorials"?

Or should I be worried only if my domain would be internetmarketingtutorials.mywebsite.com?
#emd #question
  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    just having an EMD is not a penalty. Its more of a flag for google to look at your site closer. Having an emd will indeed add a multiplier to other penalties you receive from using questionable seo tactics.

    All google does it "notice" the emd unless you are using other blackhat(ish) tactics...then you get penalized harder and faster if you have an emd.

    But merely having an emd is not going to get you ranked highly or get you penalized.

    EMD's are actually still very good for seo...when you do seo the right way.
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    • Profile picture of the author petemcal
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      just having an EMD is not a penalty. Its more of a flag for google to look at your site closer. Having an emd will indeed add a multiplier to other penalties you receive from using questionable seo tactics.

      All google does it "notice" the emd unless you are using other blackhat(ish) tactics...then you get penalized harder and faster if you have an emd.

      But merely having an emd is not going to get you ranked highly or get you penalized.

      EMD's are actually still very good for seo...when you do seo the right way.
      I would have to disagree with you on this point. I've never seen any evidence that EMDs can act as a "signal" for Google to further investigate a site for additional black hat tactics.

      If you look at Matt Cutt's original announcement about the EMD algo update he mentions that it'll affect low quality sites with an EMD domain. So I would say that if you have an EMD and your site shows low quality signals across the pengiun, panda or core algorithm then it's going to get hit by the specific EMD filter. But the fact that it acts as an instigator or aggregator for other penalties simply doesn't hold true.

      The EMD did used to hold value in boosting site's for their domain name keyphrase (hence why they were used by SEOs). This value was stripped with the update. For most it simply meant the EMD value didn't exist anymore, but for others it acted as a noticable penalty.

      As for the OP no having a single word from an EMD phase is unlikely to trigger a penalty in itself. But this is very subjective to the topic area of the site. All in all I'd say if you're creating a site to target a single phrase you're wayyy behind the way IM is heading.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    emd does affect "low quality"...how do you think google views sites that are using questionable seo tactics?... as low quality?

    The value of an emd has not been totally stripped either. It is still a positive thing for seo if your you have the words of a search phrase in your domain. Think "bestbuy", "walmart" , Warriroforum". Google does indeed give a natural boost if your domain has the search phrase words in it. Many of those are trademarked names/phrases and when the trademark owners defend their trademark, this makes it easier for google to rank the site the user most likely wants to see.

    However, the emd effect gets canceled out and even becomes a negative multiplier when google determines you are using other questionable tactics to rank highly or are a low quality site. which basically means "at their discretion"

    Google would be insane to actually penalize a domain just for having search phrase words in it. What would its results look like for "facebook" if having an emd was a negative thing...would facebook.com not show for facebook?...lol

    Emd's are just one very small piece of the puzzle google uses to rank. And yes, they still matter both as a positive attribute and as a negative multiplier when combined with other questionable seo tactics.

    Google does the same things with things like having aweber code on your sites. Aweber was and is very associate with the IM crowd that is always damaging googles business with blackhat seo tactics.

    So google started flagging sites with aweber code. Its not a negative factor unless combined with other questionable seo tactics. Then having aweber code on your site suddenly becomes a multiplier that gets your site penalized harder and faster.
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    • Profile picture of the author Stefan Shields
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      emd does affect "low quality"...how do you think google views sites that are using questionable seo tactics?... as low quality?

      The value of an emd has not been totally stripped either. It is still a positive thing for seo if your you have the words of a search phrase in your domain. Think "bestbuy", "walmart" , Warriroforum". Google does indeed give a natural boost if your domain has the search phrase words in it. Many of those are trademarked names/phrases and when the trademark owners defend their trademark, this makes it easier for google to rank the site the user most likely wants to see.

      However, the emd effect gets canceled out and even becomes a negative multiplier when google determines you are using other questionable tactics to rank highly or are a low quality site. which basically means "at their discretion"

      Google would be insane to actually penalize a domain just for having search phrase words in it. What would its results look like for "facebook" if having an emd was a negative thing...would facebook.com not show for facebook?...lol

      Emd's are just one very small piece of the puzzle google uses to rank. And yes, they still matter both as a positive attribute and as a negative multiplier when combined with other questionable seo tactics.

      Google does the same things with things like having aweber code on your sites. Aweber was and is very associate with the IM crowd that is always damaging googles business with blackhat seo tactics.

      So google started flagging sites with aweber code. Its not a negative factor unless combined with other questionable seo tactics. Then having aweber code on your site suddenly becomes a multiplier that gets your site penalized harder and faster.
      There seems to be a huge misconception regarding EMD's, the domain's were not penalized, low quality over optimized content was penalized.

      BTW: This thread belongs here: Adsense / PPC / SEO Discussion Forum
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by Stefan Shields View Post

        There seems to be a huge misconception regarding EMD's, the domain's were not penalized, low quality over optimized content was penalized.

        BTW: This thread belongs here: Adsense / PPC / SEO Discussion Forum
        but sites with emd got hit harder...and still do if they do blackhat stuff.

        so what does that tell you about emd's...they are a factor in determining which sites get hit and how hard.

        But naturally they are fine. just like having aweber code. its normally not a problem. but if you abuse other seo tactics the wrong way, then suddenly having the aweber code gets you hit harder and faster.

        btw...i have a business relationship with seohosting.com an HG comapany. I know a little about seo . And i live way outside the closed little seo bubble of seo optimizers. Their view is very skewed and completely wrong in most cases because they dont see the big picture. they only see the seo optimizers vs google battle.
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    • Profile picture of the author petemcal
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      emd does affect "low quality"...how do you think google views sites that are using questionable seo tactics?... as low quality?

      The value of an emd has not been totally stripped either. It is still a positive thing for seo if your you have the words of a search phrase in your domain. Think "bestbuy", "walmart" , Warriroforum". Google does indeed give a natural boost if your domain has the search phrase words in it. Many of those are trademarked names/phrases and when the trademark owners defend their trademark, this makes it easier for google to rank the site the user most likely wants to see.

      However, the emd effect gets canceled out and even becomes a negative multiplier when google determines you are using other questionable tactics to rank highly or are a low quality site. which basically means "at their discretion"

      Google would be insane to actually penalize a domain just for having search phrase words in it. What would its results look like for "facebook" if having an emd was a negative thing...would facebook.com not show for facebook?...lol

      Emd's are just one very small piece of the puzzle google uses to rank. And yes, they still matter both as a positive attribute and as a negative multiplier when combined with other questionable seo tactics.

      Google does the same things with things like having aweber code on your sites. Aweber was and is very associate with the IM crowd that is always damaging googles business with blackhat seo tactics.

      So google started flagging sites with aweber code. Its not a negative factor unless combined with other questionable seo tactics. Then having aweber code on your site suddenly becomes a multiplier that gets your site penalized harder and faster.
      I get where you're coming from, and I understand that factors work together rather than in isolation to determine how Google judges a site. I think maybe I misunderstood the original point you were putting across. If you're saying that EMDs aren't inherently going to bring down a site, but they can have a negative (or positive) weighting in how the algorithm judges the site's quality then I agree.

      However I don't think brand names are what the EMD update was targeting. Because it would of course be ridiculous to penalise facebook for the keyword "facebook" because it's in their domain. That's not what I'm referring to. I think the EMD update was more targeted towards website such as buyusedcarsinflorida.info who were targeting the phrase "buy used cars in Florida" (this is a fictitious example I don't know if this site exists). Brand names have come out of the update unscathed, in fact they have probably gained rankings from the drop in low quality EMD sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by petemcal View Post

        I get where you're coming from, and I understand that factors work together rather than in isolation to determine how Google judges a site. I think maybe I misunderstood the original point you were putting across. If you're saying that EMDs aren't inherently going to bring down a site, but they can have a negative (or positive) weighting in how the algorithm judges the site's quality then I agree.

        However I don't think brand names are what the EMD update was targeting. Because it would of course be ridiculous to penalise facebook for the keyword "facebook" because it's in their domain. That's not what I'm referring to. I think the EMD update was more targeted towards website such as buyusedcarsinflorida.info who were targeting the phrase "buy used cars in Florida" (this is a fictitious example I don't know if this site exists). Brand names have come out of the update unscathed, in fact they have probably gained rankings from the drop in low quality EMD sites.
        yes, thats what i am saying.

        as for your second point. thats kinda right. googles "emd" changes were just to nerf the big bonus it once gave. emd's are still a slight positive naturally no matter if they are brand names or the more typical IMer emd's like buyusedcarsinflorida.info.

        as i described in an earlier post, one of the reasons google does give a slight bonus to emd's naturally is because of the literally tens of thousands of trademarked company and product names. google knows that if those companies do their work to protect their trademark then googles ranking algo will positively affect the "real" businesses that people are (likely) searching for when they type in a search phrase that includes one of the trademark words/phrases.

        but even IMer emd's still have a slight positive naturally. google correctly thinks that naturally a domain with the keywords from a search phrase should be more relevant than a domain without the search phrase words in it. so you get a slight bonus...until you prove to google your site doesnt deserve that bonus based on its content or seo bad behavior.

        obviously that is just one other piece of the puzzle, but it is an important one because it helps to fully explain why emd's will never have a natural penalty but rather a slight natural bonus....that was definitely nerfed.

        Of course that is discussing emd's as a stand alone factor. But as i described, they are far from a stand alone factor. What you do with the domain is a much bigger determining factor when it comes to how google ranks your site and how they factor in the EMD as part of your sites ranking.
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        • Profile picture of the author Hansons
          Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

          yes, thats what i am saying.

          as for your second point. thats kinda right. googles "emd" changes were just to nerf the big bonus it once gave. emd's are still a slight positive naturally no matter if they are brand names or the more typical IMer emd's like buyusedcarsinflorida.info.

          as i described in an earlier post, one of the reasons google does give a slight bonus to emd's naturally is because of the literally tens of thousands of trademarked company and product names. google knows that if those companies do their work to protect their trademark then googles ranking algo will positively affect the "real" businesses that people are (likely) searching for when they type in a search phrase that includes one of the trademark words/phrases.

          but even IMer emd's still have a slight positive naturally. google correctly thinks that naturally a domain with the keywords from a search phrase should be more relevant than a domain without the search phrase words in it. so you get a slight bonus...until you prove to google your site doesnt deserve that bonus based on its content or seo bad behavior.

          obviously that is just one other piece of the puzzle, but it is an important one because it helps to fully explain why emd's will never have a natural penalty but rather a slight natural bonus....that was definitely nerfed.

          Of course that is discussing emd's as a stand alone factor. But as i described, they are far from a stand alone factor. What you do with the domain is a much bigger determining factor when it comes to how google ranks your site and how they factor in the EMD as part of your sites ranking.
          I completely agree with your points. in EMD update those sites were penalized which were doing spam works.. I would say.
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    • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      It is still a positive thing for seo if your you have the words of a search phrase in your domain. Think "bestbuy", "walmart" , Warriroforum". Google does indeed give a natural boost if your domain has the search phrase words in it. Many of those are trademarked names/phrases and when the trademark owners defend their trademark, this makes it easier for google to rank the site the user most likely wants to see.
      This is where you lost me and not in the "I don't get it" kind of way.

      So... you are saying branded domains are getting a boost for their EMD when they become common search terms and people are searching for the brand? Because if I'm looking for Best buy then I'm looking for best buy. That's what will show up and that's what I'll click on. That's all about Best Buy defending it's trademark and searchers not being totally brain dead, clicking on the right answer to their question and has nothing to do with bestbuy.com being an EMD for "best buy." and getting some kind of EMD boost. Why would Google think they need that? Maybe just some bad examples there, all majorly branded sites. (with gargantuan link profiles too btw)

      In that line of reasoning I can go out tomorrow, buy a domain, build a site "www.crispyfriedlinksausages.com" and then register my business "Crispy Fried Link Sausages Inc." Then market the hell out of it and then hey my domain becomes an EMD right? and I get a pat on the back from google in the form of a nice EMD boost. Obviously I'm at #1 because Google loves my EMD. Not because I AM my keyword.

      Did you know manual reviewers can mark a result as vital? You don't think you can outrank Walmart for Walmart can you? Not with all the money in the world and walmart.biz hehehhe Their lawyers would grind your bones to make their bread ... no need for an "EMD boost"

      This is the SEO version of the chicken and the egg question only this one has an answer most of the time. Google admits there was a boost in the past, has been deflated. No penalty, just not much help.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Having an exact match domain is not a penalty. Its all the BS that most people do with them that causes the problems.

    Infact there is no such thing as an "EMD penalty". Google just turned down the wick on how by having an EMD gave immediate benefits.
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Having an exact match domain is not a penalty. Its all the BS that most people do with them that causes the problems.

      Infact there is no such thing as an "EMD penalty". Google just turned down the wick on how by having an EMD gave immediate benefits.
      Good point. Instead of a penalty, Google just deleted the EMD ranking 'bonus.' In the end, it is still the quality of your content that matters most.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Having an exact match domain is not a penalty. Its all the BS that most people do with them that causes the problems.

      Infact there is no such thing as an "EMD penalty". Google just turned down the wick on how by having an EMD gave immediate benefits.
      There's your answer.

      All Google did was take away the artificial advantage an exact match domain gave to websites. Nothing more, nothing less.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Theres a basic universal law of forums.

        The longer a SEO related thread stays in the general section before it is removed here the more it sucks. IF it starts there at all it sucks but its all down hill from there.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Theres a basic universal law of forums.

          The longer a SEO related thread stays in the general section before it is removed here the more it sucks. IF it starts there at all it sucks but its all down hill from there.
          so are you saying i am wrong? I have 18 years experience online and i have a business relationship with seohosting.com... an HG company. I have access to WAY more test data than most "expert" seo guys who get the majority of their test data relating to "over seo'd" domains. That really skews their perception of what is really going.

          I dont come to this section because too many people THINK they know seo and really dont have much of a clue. They usually just run from one trick to the next calling it seo.

          Like the guy last week answering a question in the main forum talking about how google ignores "stop words". He also said it should be moved to this section to get good advice. I eventually convinced him to test it and he discovered that google doesn't ignore stop words at all.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

            so are you saying i am wrong?
            Only if you think you were the only one posting in this thread but yeah you are wrong here for example

            Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

            Its more of a flag for google to look at your site closer. Having an emd will indeed add a multiplier to other penalties you receive from using questionable seo tactics.
            Theres not a stitch of evidence that an emd automatically makes either Google look closer at your site or that it adds a"multiplier" to other penalties'

            I have 18 years experience online and i have a business relationship with seohosting.com... an HG company.
            On an internet marketing board where everyone claims great things for themselves its best to just keep to actual evidence. Self testimonials are in every other post. I Work for Google in the spam team department and have lunch with Matt Cutts twice a week. Prove it isn't so (guy loves him some chili). BTW SEO hosting went out about a year ago. Most people in the know no longer build their networks on top of SEO hosts.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Keith
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


              On an internet marketing board where everyone claims great things for themselves its best to just keep to actual evidence. Self testimonials are in every other post. I Work for Google in the spam team department and have lunch with Matt Cutts twice a week. Prove it isn't so (guy loves him some chili). BTW SEO hosting went out about a year ago. Most people in the know no longer build their networks on top of SEO hosts.
              FYI...no it didn't. having different class c ip links is still an advantage. much like emd's. that advantage got nerfed, but still does exist.

              It works the same way as emd's. if you do things the way google like then it is still a slight positive. if you abuse elements of seo such as emd's or class c ip links then google suddenly realizes you are most likely trying to game the system and harm their business by artificially ranking a site that probably shouldn't be ranked high.

              did you also know that google marks aweber code the same way when it finds it on your site?

              basically google just "notices" the aweber code unless/until a site shows other signs of trying to game its algorithm. at that point, the aweber code flag turns into a multiplier. Through googles huge amount of data, they have figured out that many of the IM'ers gaming their system have aweber code. BTW...they "mark" other things the same way

              and yes, i have tons of evidence to support this.

              The fact that you think class c ip hosting is no longer useful proves my point that YOU, like most seo guys primarily work with over seo'd domains...those domains dont get a benefit from class c ip links anymore....but other normal domains still do. There is still a way to do it right..in a way google likes.

              Another major thing you "professional" seo guys dont see is just how long term the google algo is getting. I could give you examples, but i am quite certain you are much more interested in "being right" than getting it right.

              you are just another seo guy who runs from trick to trick. I looked at the site in your sig and it proves that. I was almost completely unaffected by panda/penguin....and all the others. The tricksters are the ones google keeps slapping and you guys cant get your heads out of the sand long enough to realize what the hell is really going on.

              BTW...just because you haven't seen evidence of something doesn't at all mean its wrong. It just means YOU don't understand something. I tell guys that all the time who think adfly traffic is junk or that its impossible to make money with traffic exchanges. I can/have made money with both...more than most IMers make.

              Your lack of understanding of a concept/principal does not mean it is wrong. . It just means your knowledge is limited on the subject.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

                FYI...no it didn't. having different class c ip links is still an advantage. much like emd's. that advantage got nerfed, but still does exist.
                For your FYI building networks is what I do morning noon and night and what I am known most for here. You are clueless as to what was meant so you assume into silliness. SEO hosting being out says nothing about not needing different class C Ips but how now you should get them on entirely different boxes, across multiple providers and in multi geographical regions because there are other ways Google can identify sites on the same box even when assigned seperate class C Ips as done with SEO hosts Several network owners last year got dinged at SEO hosts for that very reason. If you don't understand something ask before assuming.

                and yes, i have tons of evidence to support this.
                unfortunately just not an ounce on what was being discussed. Prey tell where did I question anything about aweber code?:rolleyes: You got any evidence that an EMD multiplies penalties on a site? No not a stitch

                The fact that you think class c ip hosting is no longer useful proves my point that YOU, like most seo guys primarily work with over seo'd domains
                The fact that you think SEO hosting is the only way to get separate class C Ips proves that YOU are out of your depth on the subject. It also proves you don't have ESP to know a thing about anyones domains. No surprise there on either count.

                Another major thing you "professional" seo guys dont see is just how long term the google algo is getting. I could give you examples, but i am quite certain you are much more interested in "being right" than getting it right.
                lol.....yes of course SEO professionals don't know SEO is long term - only IM forum posters have that figured out.

                you are just another seo guy who runs from trick to trick. I looked at the site in your sig and it proves that. I was almost completely unaffected by panda/penguin....and all the others. The tricksters are the ones google keeps slapping and you guys cant get your heads out of the sand long enough to realize what the hell is really going on.
                newbs usually do end up showing their newbiness - SEO networks are hardly a trick no more than bought links are and they have been working for many years. Sorry Laddie but none of either mine or my client's site got hit by panda or penguin because high authority in contextual links are one of the key things that HAS not changed in close to a decade. So your claim of moving from trick to trick is just more garbage with you talking about things and people you have not a clue about.

                and not surprisingly what you offer no evidence for.

                Thanks for the sig reference though. It usually is good for a sale or two and this time seems to be no different.
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      • Profile picture of the author RuggeroSB
        Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

        obviously that is just one other piece of the puzzle, but it is an important one because it helps to fully explain why emd's will never have a natural penalty but rather a slight natural bonus....that was definitely nerfed.
        100% my experience. EMD's still have advantage. Just don't screw it up with bad SEO (on- or off-page) 'cuz there's a clear EMD filter at play now.
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        There's your answer.

        All Google did was take away the artificial advantage an exact match domain gave to websites. Nothing more, nothing less.
        Disagree. Nothing was taken away in my opinion, only added. As in, you get the "EMD bonus" until your site/SEO proves that you're abusing (over-optimising) it, at which point it gets taken away.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdlive
    warriorforum is EMD. its optimizing for its own name. Another example, is twitter.com. Twitter's name is exactly matching its name so it will get penalized when it starts to link to itself as twitter.com
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by sdlive View Post

      warriorforum is EMD. its optimizing for its own name. Another example, is twitter.com. Twitter's name is exactly matching its name so it will get penalized when it starts to link to itself as twitter.com
      Wow, amazing. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author raffman999
    In my experience having an EMD doesn't mean you'll be penalised; it's down to other factors like how spammy your site looks and how the content reads.
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  • Profile picture of the author aizaku
    having one word about your niche in your domain is fine.

    but yes, get a brandable domain rather than a straight on emd
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    No seriously now. This is not even funny discussing.

    "Brandable" over "EMD" ?

    Anyone in this thread who has been pro "brandable" domains. Im sorry, but have to say your just BSing the world for the sake of argument or something.

    If any of you guys come across any EMD domains open with say, 100k+ volume a month. But you decide to take a brandable domain in that market instead. Feel free to pass on the open EMD to me. Seeing you wont be taking it. For the sake of ethics and morals.
    Its a shame to waste.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gareth Mailer
    There's a far more comprehensive answer to this question, here: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...nt-please.html
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Gareth Mailer View Post

      There's a far more comprehensive answer to this question, here: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...nt-please.html
      i wish it was truly a more comprehensive answer, but as almost always with SEO discussions most people are only using data from over seo'd domains to try to prove their points.

      That is one of the stupidest things the whole seo group does. Of course a certain subset of sites that are over seo'd get nerfed during google algo updates...thats who they are targeting...over seo'd sites. in some form or fashion. With each update google is specifically targeting groups who are gaming the search algo.

      To fully understand what is going on, you need MUCH MUCH more data from a wide range of sites. Sites with no seo, some seo, blackhat seo, lots of white hat seo..... But most folks in the seo bubble see about 90% over seo'd domains and statistical data. That leads people to have a very incorrect view of what each update really does.

      each update, does very different things to each type of site depending upon probably millions of other variables.

      EMD's are a slight naturally positive thing and always will be (largely due to the legal system and trademarks). However, if you do other things that google doesn't like then suddenly google looks at your site and assumes you are also trying to "game" the system by using an EMD too... At that point your emd turns from a slight positive thing to a very negative factor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ndot India
    I have seen some many websites with EMD still in the 1st place of the Google search. So, I think if a site is following black hat technique to promote the keywords, then only Google will put that site in sand box I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Baba Pandey
    Why not just go with im.yourdomain ? Keyword in domain and subdomain will not have any impact on your ranking if you have quality relevant content. Let the google know your website is about internet marketing through the content and google will do the rest ! You can try to promote the website via some ethical methods in natural way then ..
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    • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
      Originally Posted by Baba Pandey View Post

      Why not just go with im.yourdomain ? Keyword in domain and subdomain will not have any impact on your ranking if you have quality relevant content. Let the google know your website is about internet marketing through the content and google will do the rest ! You can try to promote the website via some ethical methods in natural way then ..
      Please please don't encourage subdomains. In 99% of cases they are bad for SEO. Sorry but that has been my experience. And please don't count on Google to "do the rest" either. Madness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Weblover50
    To answer the original question - imarketing.mywebsite.com doesn't look like an EMD for internet marketing or anything similar. You should be safe wit this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    So EMD is good? So long as you dont do BH link building. But EMD is bad if you plan on doing BH link building? But BH link building is always bad. No matter what your domain name is.
    So you using the the argument that, its only "Bad" if you get caught doing BH link building. Well its kind of a mute point.
    Your saying it acts like a multiplier of sort.

    Like in that series of friends when Joey was auditioning to be a game show host. The show was named "BAMBOOZLED". It's kind of how you explain your theory and SEO.

    You started off with a statement that took a little heat. And now you have just wandered off into a world of unknown factors and name dropping. That got me wondering what this thread was even about.

    How deep are you down the Rabbit Hole?
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      So EMD is good? So long as you dont do BH link building. But EMD is bad if you plan on doing BH link building? But BH link building is always bad. No matter what your domain name is.
      So you using the the argument that, its only "Bad" if you get caught doing BH link building. Well its kind of a mute point.
      Your saying it acts like a multiplier of sort.

      Like in that series of friends when Joey was auditioning to be a game show host. The show was named "BAMBOOZLED". It's kind of how you explain your theory and SEO.

      You started off with a statement that took a little heat. And now you have just wandered off into a world of unknown factors and name dropping. That got me wondering what this thread was even about.

      How deep are you down the Rabbit Hole?
      huh? i never said an emd was only bad if you do bh link building. i said that if google doesn't like other things you are doing then having an emd gets you hit harder and faster. but google can not like your site for lots of reasons..bh, weak content, other over optimized seo stuff....many many reasons.

      but the reality is that many seo factors work like that. emd's were just added to that list relatively recently. they were a very positive thing and now they are "just another seo factor".

      as for the rest of your post, it makes no sense really.

      i dont need to name drop...truth is, i really dont care if you seo "experts" every figure things out. I do very very well working with big companies and doing seo the way google wants it done...without all the tricks and games most seo guys try to play. That keeps you guys running in circles always trying to beat google.

      the "seo experts" actually make my job much easier by playing games with google...although it makes yours much harder long term. So by all means do it your way.

      and come back in a few months and notice the aweber statement. You seo experts will figure out that it is true. It just takes you guys longer for a lot of reasons. I mentioned the biggest one several times already that prevents you guys from actually seeing what it really going on lots of times.

      cheers guys, i am going back to the main forum.

      you guys think you know seo....lol. its kinda cute actually.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    @seodollz.

    what i am saying is that having an emd is still a slight positive. google is using the legal system and the fact that company's can and do protect their trademarks to their advantage.

    obviously "best buy" is a strange example from just about every perspective due to the nature of their the words in their trademarked name being so common. but we both know that most trademarked names are much less common than "best buy". as you stated, that is just a really weird example.

    Basicaly, by giving emd's a slight positive, google knows that the "main" site or brand of tens of thousands of trademarks are the ones who can and do defend their trademarks. So when those individual companies do defend their trademarks and prevent anyone from owning their .biz, .net.... then google has basically created a system where the trademark owners actually help google keep cleaner search results for many emd's.

    obviously trademarked related emd's are just a small part of the puzzle.

    as for your example, yes, in theory. but the slight emd boost would not be worth developing a full system or business plan on as you kinda suggest...in jest to some degree i imagine.

    the emd boost did get nerfed... no doubt about that. It was basically a blindly big positive thing. now thats not the case. Its a very slight positive that can turn very negative if google determines they dont like your site for other reasons. such as weak content, bh tactics.....

    so basically, if you use bh tactics you will obviously find yourself on google radar at some point anyway. What i am saying is that google takes lots of factors into account when deciding if a person is trying to game its algo. emd's are just a small piece of that puzzle.

    if you use bh tactics and have an emd, your emd is just one more factor that allows google to build a case determining that you are trying to game their system.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    It's not a penalty, it's webmasters thinking they can buy an EMD then sitting around waiting to rank.

    BTW, I'll take a branded domain over most EMDs. If I sold cars, cars.com would make sense for the entire site. If I sold phones lowcostredphones.com is just sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    No BH here cowboy.

    I just haven't seen any solid evidence to support the multiplier theory, being honest. It's a good theory but impossible to prove, how can you quantify how much of the penalty was due to thin content, spam links, etc and how much the EMD came into play? You'd have to do some serious tests and point at them for me. In the EMD thread Gareth linked to there is a link to a case study that I thought was interesting. Good read. I'll find the link.

    But lay off the SEO forum would you? We're not all illiterate cave dwellers.

    Edit: http://www.linkresearchtools.com/wp-...nd-Loosers.pdf
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      No BH here cowboy.

      I just haven't seen any solid evidence to support the multiplier theory, being honest. It's a good theory but impossible to prove, how can you quantify how much of the penalty was due to thin content, spam links, etc and how much the EMD came into play? You'd have to do some serious tests and point at them for me. In the EMD thread Gareth linked to there is a link to a case study that I thought was interesting. Good read. I'll find the link.

      But lay off the SEO forum would you? We're not all illiterate cave dwellers.
      i guess, multiplier is not really the right word. I should have more correctly stated that it helps to build a case against a site when other factors google doesn't like start showing up.

      if you start doing a whole bunch of things that make you look like you are trying to game the system then expect faster and more harsh penalties. duh...right?

      and you are right, it is harder to test this on the emd front specifically. although due to my relationship with seohosting and others who are firmly involved in the seo industry, i do have access to lots of test data.

      but as i explain, it works much like the aweber "flag" i mention. That is something much easier to test. and yes, i have tested the shit out of it. There are other things too...like whois info being displayed for domains.

      obviously its not a negative to block your whois data, but if your site is showing other signs of trying to game the system and then you show google you are also trying to remain anonymous in part by blocking whois data...any guesses as to what google thinks of that? their algo reflects whay they think of that.

      I don't really mean to be harsh on seo guys. but i know they have a super skewed view of the seo world and how google operates. The negative seo drama is a great example.

      You can't touch me mid-longterm with negatvie seo. it barely affects me for a couple days. the reason negative seo is such a big thing in the seo world is because most of the test showing that negative seo is super strong are done invovlving domains that have at one point been over seo'd. or have atleast show lots of flags to google that they are very close to being over seo'd.

      Then when someone does some negative seo against a site like that google counts that. If your site never gets close to the lines of being over seo'd then negative seo only affects you very temporarily.

      Moreover, once someone tries to use negative seo against you and fails because you were never a site that used grey/bh tactics then you get actually get another positive flag. kinda like an immunity flag that makes future negative seo attempts against you less powerful.

      Google is pretty smart. the google algo is getting smarter faster than seo guys because seo guys are living in the over seo'd bubble and they are finding it harder and harder to figure out the real truth about the google algo.
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      So all the times I had an EMD domain and it just happened to rank...that's a fluke huh? No other links to the domain, just content, a rebuilt sitemap or two and page 1.

      G must give it some weight even if they're saying the opposite. And no, I'm not talking about a domain like fatblackcatswithtophats.com or some crap either. I made money ranking with these domains, so they had traffic that was 100% interested in what they found.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      No BH here cowboy. **-+

      I just haven't seen any solid evidence to support the multiplier theory, being honest.
      Well of course not DOllz because there is none. The one thing you can see from this poster is that he loves to assume and assume and assume until he claims the conclusions that he draws from his assumptions are proof. SO why should he formulate SEO claims any differently?

      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      i guess, multiplier is not really the right word
      Ya think? However you can call it anything you want we are still waiting for some proof.

      and you are right, it is harder to test this on the emd front specifically. although due to my relationship with seohosting and others who are firmly involved in the seo industry, i do have access to lots of test data.
      Dude give it up. You keep dropping that in here like its some great resume. Its a hosting company. period . IF it was SEomoz that crawls millions of sites and has ton loads of metrics on links etc then maybe but no - being associated with a host that hosts alot of network sites (while lol criticizing the fact that I teach people how to build them ) doesn't give you any authority.

      i dont need to name drop...truth is, i really dont care if you seo "experts" every figure things out. I do very very well working with big companies and doing seo the way google wants it done...without all the tricks and games most seo guys try to play. That keeps you guys running in circles always trying to beat google.)
      The more I read of you the more two things are evident

      A) You don't have a clue about what "SEO guys" do. You confuse IMers who do SEO with the whole SEO industry. W is not the SEO industry and makes up less than 5% of the SEO industry. Truth is most SEO professionals work contacts not gimmicks or tricks and they were unaffected by Panda and Penguin despite your claims. Google changes over the last year have had more to do with hitting Internet marketers. You claims are just to stroke your ego like you know what every SEO professional does and what all of us are involved with.

      B) You think we were all born yesterday and have never heard great claims for theories before. Like I said I have lunch with Matt Cuts every tuesday and Friday. How else would I know he likes Chili. I only bring it up because you keep bringing up HG. This is a forum - claims mean nothing whether they are true or not. state your proof or its all worthless.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Negative SEO is alive and kicking... ask Albany Plantation

    Nah that's more of a reputation management problem. hehehe
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Negative SEO is alive and kicking... ask Albany Plantation

      Nah that's more of a reputation management problem. hehehe
      never said it wasn't now did i?

      i know it exists. and i know how to make myself virtually immune to its effects

      but again, google is damn smart.

      do you really think that you can just take ANY SITE off of page 1 for any meaningful length of time with negative seo?

      No chance.

      google has "baited" seo guys to reveal some things with the negative seo movement. They are pretty damn smart folks over there.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Not any site, not best buy for kw "best buy" but people do crazy things. I don't think Disavow is a great fix for this growing loop hole. Just sayin...
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Not any site, not best buy for kw "best buy" but people do crazy things. I don't think Disavow is a great fix for this growing loop hole. Just sayin...
      There are lots of sites you can't use negative seo against effectively.

      in fact, try this. take a site from some random business in some random town. find them on like page 20 or something. basically proving they have almost certainly had no expert seo stuff done. Try negative seo against them..hardcore. 9/10 times 3 months later that random small business website will have a higher ranking because of your negative seo attempts on them.

      the negative seo thing is being "fixed" on lots of fronts. one of the biggest is just history.

      the future of seo is "history" something that can't be faked or gamed nearly as easily as any of the individual seo factors. The new seo is moving towards profiles more than individual factors as has been the case for many years.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    @Mike Anthony

    i appreciate your thoughts. just a noob here...lol. Have a great day sir.

    ssshhh don't tell my clients. lol.

    oh wait...they won't care...i am making them money...must just be lucky.

    i am obviously not as knowledgeable as you....(sarcasm btw)

    not that someone of your skill level probably cares, but i did make a note of your "seo network". I sent the link to a friend of mine who might find it interesting....she works for google you might be careful about who you take orders from for a while...never know when you might be letting the enemy (google) in.

    i would ignore the last part...probably just bs too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      not that someone of your skill level probably cares, but i did make a note of your "seo network". I sent the link to a friend of mine who might find it interesting....she works for google you might be careful about who you take orders from for a while...never know when you might be letting the enemy (google) in.

      BWA HAHAHAHAHAHA. You da man. Funniest junk I've read in a long time

      A) You didn't even check out my site properly. I Sell a COURSE on how to build a network. If Google wants to learn how to build one I'll take their money with a smile. see how wide it will be here

      B) Its just too funny to read a guy whose claim to fame is a business relationship with SEOHosting.com making up a friend at Google he is going to report my supposed network to when most ALL SEOHOSTING.com DOES is host SEO networks.

      WF is too funny sometimes
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    call me in five years and lets see how your seo network business is doing.

    i have seen guys like you come and go many many times over the years. And you don't even really understand how dumb it is to post your info about your seo network service.

    i know these networks exists. The ones that last...no one knows about except a very very few clients.

    The seo networks that have to advertise to get clients always ALWAYS get blown up. Google always figures them out and kills them.

    some last a little longer than others, but they always lose in the end. Yours will be no different. and now i know for sure google knows your name, your site, your PP, and the fact that you are gaming thier system....good luck with that.

    smart business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post


      i have seen guys like you come and go many many times over the years. And you don't even really understand how dumb it is to post your info about your seo network service.

      i know these networks exists. The ones that last...no one knows about except a very very few clients.
      Dude I seen guys that come and go and don't read but you take the cake. You are only showing how silly your constant pattern of assuming is. The site is right there - you claim to have looked at but yet

      NO WHERE on my site do I put info on my site about my network. I don't even rent links . Hey check my backlinks you will find my entire network.

      The seo networks that have to advertise to get clients always ALWAYS get blown up. Google always figures them out and kills them.
      Thats right. you finally got one thing right. Now show me again where I advertize my network? or are you assuming again my SEO services are link packages?:rolleyes:

      Yours will be no different. and now i know for sure google knows your name, your site, your PP, and the fact that you are gaming thier system....good luck with that.
      Everyone at WF with a sig is trembling. I wonder how SEOhosting.com still does good business? Google aint figured out what they do because you didn't tell them?

      This is getting childish. None of this distraction changes that you have presented no evidence - just claims of who you have business with and who you supposedly know. Its all been done before on this forum countless times.


      P.S. when you are going to claim 18 years experience in SEO use an older avatar. If not It just doesn't work
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    and guess what, the couple people i know at google know all about seohosting.com. And yes, many of the sites/networks and such there get banned because they don't know that they are doing.

    I don't know if google was aware of you helping sites to cheat their algo or not before tonight, but i know they are after tonight.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      and guess what, the couple people i know at google
      Hey maybe we can hook up at the Google Christmas party. Your friends can meet mine. Matt always promises to hook me up with the short brunette in Adwords quality department (She's shy and doesn't add many words to her sentences - go figure - work hazard? too sick of them?) but he always gets drunk early and starts to do that weird dinosaur dance thing which creeps her out and I never get the intro.


      I don't know if google was aware of you helping sites to cheat their algo or not before tonight, but i know they are after tonight.
      Matt laughs at me all the time when I tell him he should sign up the department for my SEO network course. Says "what as a refresher course?". I gave up because Cutt's snorting chili is not a pleasant sight.

      but hey if your friend can get me some sales from Googleplex theres some affiliate dollars in it for you. Better than pimping SEOhosting.com

      I'll give you 50% if you throw in the brunette's phone number. All right 70%

      cool?

      i am 33...that pic is maybe 2 years old. i have been working online since i was a freshman in highschool. I was profitable my sophomore yr.
      Well of course you have to say that. If you said yeah I am 26 and started when I was 8 the jig would be dead but then it is anyway. Rock on bro.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Matt always promises to hook me up with the short brunette in Adwords quality department
        The one with the butter face? :rolleyes: She's only shy around you.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i am 33...that pic is maybe 2 years old. i have been working online since i was a freshman in highschool. I was profitable my sophomore yr.

    i will keep the pic.

    and keep doing what you are doing if it works for you. just call me in a few years. we can catch up.

    btw...don't take my word for it. test the aweber code thing or test the whois data thing. i got a whole bunch of things like that you can test once you figure out i am right on those two. And that the google algo does use a system of "flags" as well as a scoring based system on each factor.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    ok, just to be clear on the OP's original post.

    what is your take on the "emd penalty"? how, when, where, why...?

    my answer is simply this.

    They were a big (blindly) positive factor, but that got nerfed and now its much like just another seo factor.

    emd's with low quality content or seo bad behavior got hit much harder than emd's that didn't have other things google didn't like...in the last few updates.

    so as i began to test this what i found was that having an emd is normally slight positive(pretty much irrelevant for this discussion). but if you combine an emd with other things google doesn't like then it becomes an aggravating factor.

    as i described earlier your normally good for seo emd becomes a bod for seo attribute that goes from helping you rank to hurting you rank.

    people sometimes think there is an emd penalty when none really exists. your emd penalty only shows up when you combine an emd with other factors google doesn't like.

    if you do things google doesn't like you will get penalized with or without an emd. BUt having an emd seems to be something that googles algo changed on relatively recently.

    so its either that emd's themselves are being penalized (not happening) or that emd's in combination with things google doesn't like are being penalized more and faster than other sites(non emd) that do things google doesn't like.

    its one of those two things otherwise none of us could even notice that anything changed in regards to seo regarding emd's.

    the only other option is to just say that google nerfed the emd bonus...which seems to hold water until you realize that some emd's didn't get hurt in the updates and others did...so how do you explain that?
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    • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      ok, just to be clear on the OP's original post.

      what is your take on the "emd penalty"? how, when, where, why...?

      my answer is simply this.

      They were a big positive, but that got nerfed and now its much like just another seo factor.

      emd's with low quality content or seo bad behavior got hit much harder than emd's that didn't have other things google didn't like...in the last few updates.

      so as i began to test this what i found was that having an emd is normally slight positive(pretty much irrelevant for this discussion). but if you combine an emd with other things google doesn't like then it becomes an aggravating factor.

      as i described earlier your normally good for seo emd becomes a bod for seo attribute that goes from helping you rank to hurting you rank.

      people sometimes think there is an emd penalty when none really exists. your emd penalty only shows up when you combine and emd with other factors google doesn't like.

      if you do things google doesn't like you will get penalized with our without an emd. BUt having an emd seems to be something that googles algo changed on relatively recently.

      so its either that emd's themselves are being penalized or that emd's in combination with things google doesn't like are being penalized more and faster than other sites that do things google doesn't like.

      its one of those two things otherwise none of us could even notice that anything changed in regards to seo regarding emd's.

      the only other option is to just say that google nerfed the emd bonus...which seems to hold water until you realize that some emd's didn't get hurt in the updates and other did...so how do you explain that?
      My kingdom for a case study! :p This still doesn't do it for me, I like your theory but there are some grey areas there that would need to come into focus before I can subscribe.

      If you read the report the EMDs that lost out were weaker sites on many levels than the EMDs that weathered the "update" well. The sites that didn't lose ground had more social signals, better and more links. Case studies like this and my experience lead me to believe that the sites that took a hit were propped up artificially, resting on their EMD laurels (boost) and when Google pulled the boost they fell to their rightful place. But nothing shows me that there is any potential negative signal sent to Google by having an EMD. Any domain could be considered an EMD if people search for it

      I'd love to see something that supports the "naughty EMD multiplier...
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      • Profile picture of the author karismasand
        Check this and let me know what do you see ...
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

        My kingdom for a case study! :p This still doesn't do it for me, I like your theory but there are some grey areas there that would need to come into focus before I can subscribe.

        If you read the report the EMDs that lost out were weaker sites on many levels than the EMDs that weathered the "update" well. The sites that didn't lose ground had more social signals, better and more links. Case studies like this and my experience lead me to believe that the sites that took a hit were propped up artificially, resting on their EMD laurels (boost) and when Google pulled the boost they fell to their rightful place. But nothing shows me that there is any potential negative signal sent to Google by having an EMD. Any domain could be considered an EMD if people search for it

        I'd love to see something that supports the "naughty EMD multiplier...

        As I said earlier, multiplier was not really the right word. All I am saying is that my testing shows me that emds are normally still lightly positive.

        But when google sees other factors it doesn't like and then notices you have an emd, rather than giving you a few points for the emd, googles algo looks at the emd as one more way you are trying to cheat. So while it's not really a multiplier it does go from normal positive to another negative factor. More negatives are bad.

        You want cases studies then do them yourself or pay for that info. I am fine if you are not convinced. I am not the one who will walk away wondering if I am right. . And no my data ain't for sale. I don't make my money selling info like that, I make my money using info like that.

        Btw, if you want to test my "flagging" theory as you describe it then I suggest you work with something much more testable like the aweber code thing or the Whois info that you can turn off and on relatively quickly to help narrow down the factors and determine what is going on in regards to seo.

        Basically what I am saying is that unlike the seo of old where things were always either good or bad. I am saying things have begun to shift more to profiles rather than individual factors that all work independandtly of each other.

        Like most things, the factors are much more interdependent now...and moving that way more and more everyday. That's the biggest reason why things like negative seo have drastically different affects in different sites. Emds are just part of a sites profile.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      its one of those two things otherwise none of us could even notice that anything changed in regards to seo regarding emd's.

      the only other option is to just say that google nerfed the emd bonus...which seems to hold water until you realize that some emd's didn't get hurt in the updates and others did...so how do you explain that?
      Yawn........Easy....they had other factors that make them rank. Theres not a lick of evidence that Google did anything more than turn down the positive effect of EMDS precisely as how they said before they were going to. No penalty no ahem "multiplier"

      not mad at all. i am not affected by what others don't understand. so rather than testing the stuff that can be tested pretty easily like the aweber code thing which would lead you to believe that my "flagging" theory is correct or in correct, you just want to play forum games.
      This thread has nothing to do with aweber code. Your problem is that you thought everyone here was some idiot that would buy your theory but they didn't and you have nothing to back it up so you are running to something never in any contention - aweber code.

      Oh sweet Petunias Martha did you know that Google can read code on your site? Well Goolly Gee. I thought they could only see Pixels. The Martha's don't care. They want to hear the nonexistent evidence on EMD multipliers or...about breakfast (I think I will have some Raisin Bran).
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    My point is that if you are going to come and state something like it's a fact (at the start of this thread) you had better have something to back it up. Otherwise you will be questioned (nicely, in my case.) I can't come to the forum and tell folks that Google prefers the color blue because I'd get my assumption handed to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      My point is that if you are going to come and state something like it's a fact (at the start of this thread) you had better have something to back it up. Otherwise you will be questioned (nicely, in my case.) I can't come to the forum and tell folks that Google prefers the color blue because I'd get my assumption handed to me.
      As stated before, another persons lack of understanding of something does not make my statements wrong. And my income will not be affected at all by your or anyone else's lack of understanding of these things. So no, I don't feel a need to prove anything. I have seen the evidence. I have tested it. To you my statements are theory. That's your opinion. It don't make your opinion right no more than my statements make me right.

      But I have seen evidence. So it seems to me you guys are the ones who are butting heads with a "theory" that you even state seems to make sense but YOU have no proof of. I do have proof. But its not my job or my business to make sure you or anyone else has all the proof they need to learn something about a topic.

      I don't mind the negativ comments to me. It don't really bother me. Been there done that many times. I am telling you to put in the work to test it and prove me wrong. In the end you will learn a lot and I am confident you will learn what I know to be true. Or you can ignore it and not affect my income one bit. Can you see how little that would actually bother me? Lol
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Bothered you enough to make you write all that now didn't it?

    Basically what you are implying is that you have super secret information that no one on the web has a case study to support. You don't have to publish your own stuff here (yeah I'm playing along now) just drop a link, any ol link

    And me... I'm calling your bluff. I don't think you have anything to show and I'd go easy on you if you hadn't spent half the thread acting like the SEO forum is a WF slum when in reality it appears that you would rather be the SEO guy in the main forum because it's less likely that anyone will call you out on anything there.

    Let's take a running leap and make believe that you could back your claims up. Don't you think it's slightly obnoxious to make a claim and then get mad because people won't "take your word for it"...? You don't know me, I don't know you but I like a theory with a little meat on it's bones... maybe that's just me.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Bothered you enough to make you write all that now didn't it?

      Basically what you are implying is that you have super secret information that no one on the web has a case study to support. You don't have to publish your own stuff here (yeah I'm playing along now) just drop a link, any ol link

      And me... I'm calling your bluff. I don't think you have anything to show and I'd go easy on you if you hadn't spent half the thread acting like the SEO forum is a WF slum when in reality it appears that you would rather be the SEO guy in the main forum because it's less likely that anyone will call you out on anything there.

      Let's take a running leap and make believe that you could back your claims up. Don't you think it's slightly obnoxious to make a claim and then get mad because people won't "take your word for it"...? You don't know me, I don't know you but I like a theory with a little meat on it's bones... maybe that's just me.
      not mad at all. i am not affected by what others don't understand. so rather than testing the stuff that can be tested pretty easily like the aweber code thing which would lead you to believe that my "flagging" theory is correct or in correct, you just want to play forum games.

      go test it and then come back and tell me i am wrong on that. i get this is a discussion about emd's, but we both know that you can't just test emd's in a reasonable amount of time without access to huge data sets.

      So test the bigger picture "theory" as you describe it and you will see with your own eyes what i have seen. Test the idea that some factors that are normally good or indifferent can act as aggravating factors when combined with other things google doesn't like. i can make a site move just by changing aweber code to constantcontact code...and then i can make it move back again.

      but trying to play games to get me to reveal data that would have no benefit to me at all other than to win a forum argument is kinda silly. you want the info and rather than work to get it, you want to get me to give you my data...lol ...good luck.

      flame me, follow the seo experts who reveal the data from a very one sided data sets of over seo'd domains. Thats fine by me.

      btw, look at my post history...i rarely answer stuff on seo because it usually turns into a fight from people who do have skin in the game trying to makes sure they appear to be right...whether they are or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Ahhh or is it the other way around? You want me to do your research for you now? If you are going to post a theory as fact be prepared. I rode the EMD update and weathered nicely thanks so my experience in the trenches is what I'm bringing to the table and I call BS.

    And your ties with an SEO hosting company don't get you "skewed" market data? Mmmhhmmm
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Ahhh or is it the other way around? You want me to do your research for you now? If you are going to post a theory as fact be prepared. I rode the EMD update and weathered nicely thanks so my experience in the trenches is what I'm bringing to the table and I call BS.

      And your ties with an SEO hosting company don't get you "skewed" market data? Mmmhhmmm
      yep, i came here with a quirky theory and my master plan is to get you to test it for me...can't believe you saw through my plan.

      i suggest you dismiss my "theory". fyi. my data doesn't all come from seo hosting. i work with lots of EIG companies. got access to lots of data sir.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

        My point is that if you are going to come and state something like it's a fact (at the start of this thread) you had better have something to back it up.
        Ahem not if you are on the general board. Like I said once a SEO thread starts there its usually filled with garbage by the time its moved here.


        Otherwise you will be questioned (nicely, in my case.)
        Whats that supposed to mean? The brunette thinks I am nice like you admitted. I'll soon have my links at the top of the serps for free. Who cares what you scrubs think. I'm nice even my mom thinks so.

        I can't come to the forum and tell folks that Google prefers the color blue because I'd get my assumption handed to me.
        Its a fact. Cutt's wears blue shirts all the time. Besides red Blue is the only other color to appear twice in Google's logo. Visited links are usually coded blue. There I have now presented three more pieces of evidence than Mr Keith ever will. Just because you guys are ignorant doesn't mean the fact that Google prefers Blue is wrong. I have business relationships with Discount Auto. I have that data that proves it. Go do your own research.

        my data doesn't all come from seo hosting. i work with lots of EIG companies. got access to lots of data sir.
        What? not creating anymore friends at Google? I have 57 besides Matt (the brunette will make 58), 42 at Microsoft, 3 at the state department and 4 that work back stage with Lady Gaga. I work with Seomoz, MSN and all local expresso shops. Finally you should know I do SEO for wikipedia

        My philosophy with name drop associations is - Go big or go home. I walk the walk.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    I'll take ma'am but only if you really mean it

    I'll admit it irks me that you act like nobody on this side of the forum knows anything about SEO. Til this thread got dropped in our laps you were being kind of snarky. I have a little Local SEO company and I've done pretty damn good for myself so I don't care if you're Rand "Pretty Boy" Fishkin... put up or...
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Yes, well I'm sleeping with Randy Fishlips so I have the kind of insight that you only get from seeing the Moz in his Digimon underoos.

    Sorry boys. I win. Well, unless Barry sees this thread.
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