NEWBIE ALERT!! Beware of the multiple product/services Claiming to Know all about penguin 2.0.

140 replies
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I don't get on many lists and when I find out I am on one (product purchase or something) I usually am pretty good at cancelling out . I was a little surprised a while ago to get one from a certain seller who I will not name. I will just say in my opinion he/she is the seller of one of the worst SEO plugins of all time on the market so I was surprised to see I was on his/her list.

Its not hard to see based on the time frame that the product being pimped was geared to be pimped long before Penguin came out. Nobody puts out a JV sales funnel etc that fast and this one was making up the completely bogus concept that social signals are now known to protect you from Penguin 2.0 and they had just the product to fix it.

Expect to see alot of this. The number one sales crap for the next week will be people claiming to know what penguin 2.O is all about because they blablabla tested it and blabla bla have hundreds of sites they monitor yadyadyada.

Truth is NO ONE can know what is in an algo besides Google in the first day or two. Even sites like SEOmoz, AHrefs, SEObook, etc etc with THOUSANDS AND EVEN MILLIONS OF SITES under their scrutiny do not come out in 24 or even 48 hours and start telling you what you can definitely fix Penguin with.

You might be hurting. You might feel desperate but don't make it worse by listening to product launches, forum posts made to say look look my services has the answer, or any software or service claiming they know the answer. NONE OF THEM KNOW.

Remember SEO is not an overnight thing. You will losing NOTHING by waiting for the dust to clear.
#alert #beware #claiming #multiple #newbie #penguin #product or services
  • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Truth is NO ONE can know what is in an algo besides Google in the first day or two. Even sites like SEOmoz, AHrefs, SEObook, etc etc with THOUSANDS AND EVEN MILLIONS OF SITES under their scrutiny do not come out in 24 or even 48 hours and start telling you what you can definitely fix Penguin with.
    It's funny because I've gotten 3 emails from companies who have apparently "cracked the algorithm for Penguin 2.0".

    The odd thing was, when I responded asking them to send proof of research that had been done to crack the algorithm, suddenly they aren't interested in selling their services to me anymore lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author pepes4329
    Social sharing, comments and user engagement are indicators
    that will give you more authority - giving you more traffic.

    So this is not TRUE..................
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Prolly gonna expect an e-mail from Becker in 2 minutes. Just saying. ZzZzzZzzz
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    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

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  • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
    Thank you for the details. The problem is that many of us here are confused about how to handle our SEO for our businesses. Everybody claims to be an SEO genius that is dangling our financial freedom in front of our noses. The problem is that most of the reviews in these WSOs are all BS. I'm a victim myself. I spent a few grand to boost a hand full of local keywords and never saw any movement. Actually almost all have declined quite a bit. It's been 8 or 9 months with no improvement. I've laclearly been hustled!

    Maybe it just takes longer when you're a Super, Duper SEO Ninja.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      I've laclearly been hustled!
      I see that.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

        I've laclearly been hustled!
        Well done.
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      • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        I see that.
        I don't follow sir. Did I misspell?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Dang Mike why are you outting??

      That was my Alaskan cruise money.
      LMAO!!

      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      I've laclearly been hustled!
      Who? naaaah never.

      Thanks Mike for posting this thread. I wanted to say something similar, but felt a good flaming coming on if I dared step on the toes of the WSOSEOMOFFO.com crew.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

        I wanted to say something similar, but felt a good flaming coming on if I dared step on the toes of the WSOSEOMOFFO.com crew.
        NO problem mate I am always being roasted so I just put another one on the barbie. Won't make no difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      Thank you for the details. The problem is that many of us here are confused about how to handle our SEO for our businesses. Everybody claims to be an SEO genius that is dangling our financial freedom in front of our noses. The problem is that most of the reviews in these WSOs are all BS. I'm a victim myself. I spent a few grand to boost a hand full of local keywords and never saw any movement. Actually almost all have declined quite a bit. It's been 8 or 9 months with no improvement. I've laclearly been hustled!

      Maybe it just takes longer when you're a Super, Duper SEO Ninja.
      Damn, they still selling those BS SEO packages? I feel you, a very long time ago I spend few bucks because I read pages and pages of good reviews only to find out these reviews were left by fools.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Damn, they still selling those BS SEO packages? I feel you, a very long time ago I spend few bucks because I read pages and pages of good reviews only to find out these reviews were left by fools.
        You can't blame the people who left a review, if they got results within a few weeks then they got those results. Problem is that the results based on spammy link techniques don't last.

        Best thing would be is when people leave a review 3-6 months after date.
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        • Profile picture of the author deezn
          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

          You can't blame the people who left a review, if they got results within a few weeks then they got those results. Problem is that the results based on spammy link techniques don't last.

          Best thing would be is when people leave a review 3-6 months after date.
          I was a customer. Hey I was new to SEO and $99 for a new site that would rank to page one? Why not.

          I also wrote a ton of content. It was about a year before I got hit by penguin (the one in April not the first one). Survived Panda.

          That said I got at least 4 cases worth over 6 figures from the site, many more smaller ones. A few were after the site was penalized. I'm still getting visitors and prospects from my penalized site. I keep it around because there are 150 pages of content and long tail keywords not penalized still bring them in.

          Knowing what I know now, sure I could have or should have built it right from the get go, or alongside that site. That said I did profit mightily from it. I paid a service and relieved ROI.

          After being slapped I know for my niche I need something long term. So I've paid big attention to Mike's posts about PBNs and that's where I know I need to go.

          Having said all of that, I can see the benefit of a dual prong approach. Slow steady stealth techniques for long term rankings. Black hat crap chur and burn for the short term. Won't work in my niche, and if its your sole strategy not a good idea. But for someone who knows how to profit off of it, why not? As long as its not being sold as "all you need" I see no harm.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      Thank you for the details. The problem is that many of us here are confused about how to handle our SEO for our businesses. Everybody claims to be an SEO genius that is dangling our financial freedom in front of our noses. The problem is that most of the reviews in these WSOs are all BS. I'm a victim myself. I spent a few grand to boost a hand full of local keywords and never saw any movement. Actually almost all have declined quite a bit. It's been 8 or 9 months with no improvement. I've laclearly been hustled!

      Maybe it just takes longer when you're a Super, Duper SEO Ninja.
      Speaking of the Devil... Someone sent me an email he already sent out today claiming to have whipped Penguin 2.0. Sign up now for your guaranteed page one ranking. Lol...
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    • Profile picture of the author wackiin
      If you spent that much money and that much time You should spend some time reading these forums and some of the other forums and try some stuff yourself.
      its not really that much to it with most of these updates if you have
      Good Content
      On Page Seo thru out the site
      Linking setup both on site and backlinks to yoursite
      Social Media
      Then with the updates it will bounce around but you will be able to over come it .

      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      Thank you for the details. The problem is that many of us here are confused about how to handle our SEO for our businesses. Everybody claims to be an SEO genius that is dangling our financial freedom in front of our noses. The problem is that most of the reviews in these WSOs are all BS. I'm a victim myself. I spent a few grand to boost a hand full of local keywords and never saw any movement. Actually almost all have declined quite a bit. It's been 8 or 9 months with no improvement. I've laclearly been hustled!

      Maybe it just takes longer when you're a Super, Duper SEO Ninja.
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      I've laclearly been hustled!
      Is this dude still doing business? The last email i got from him (actually thought I had unsubscribed from all his lists - apparently not :rolleyes was for a 30,000 link blast where he juxtaposed white hat SEO and with "taking forever" and black hat SEO with "rankings now instead of later". Just an example of an SEO going off the deep end IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

        Is this dude still doing business? The last email i got from him (actually thought I had unsubscribed from all his lists - apparently not :rolleyes was for a 30,000 link blast where he juxtaposed white hat SEO and with "taking forever" and black hat SEO with "rankings now instead of later". Just an example of an SEO going off the deep end IMO.
        I'm actually surprised that he is allowed to operate the way that he does. His whole role here is to take advantage of noobs. Once you hang around awhile and do a little research you realize that he's a scam artist.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

        Is this dude still doing business? The last email i got from him (actually thought I had unsubscribed from all his lists - apparently not :rolleyes was for a 30,000 link blast where he juxtaposed white hat SEO and with "taking forever" and black hat SEO with "rankings now instead of later". Just an example of an SEO going off the deep end IMO.
        I think the link blast was for 300k but who's counting? :p

        Given the option between ranking 1 site and hoping a future update won't destroy your site some people have decided to rank quickly and bank while they can and build another site quickly (doesn't even need to be a fresh design or content, you can use the same exact site on a new domain). It isn't for everybody but that's ok.
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        • Profile picture of the author heavysm
          Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

          I'm actually surprised that he is allowed to operate the way that he does. His whole role here is to take advantage of noobs. Once you hang around awhile and do a little research you realize that he's a scam artist.
          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

          I think the link blast was for 300k but who's counting? :p

          Given the option between ranking 1 site and hoping a future update won't destroy your site some people have decided to rank quickly and bank while they can and build another site quickly (doesn't even need to be a fresh design or content, you can use the same exact site on a new domain). It isn't for everybody but that's ok.
          It's just crazy. There's even another service for $999/ monthly guaranteeing that 1/3 of keywords improve...then 1/2 improve by a certain date. That type of stipulation "we guarantee you will see some type of serp movement" feels so bogus.

          It might as well just be a guarantee that some links will be built, and no more. Like a mechanic fed up with the complexity of new cars, so he can no longer guarantee that repairs made will have any positive lasting effect.

          It's when SEO starts evolving away from automated tools that you see the true pro's shine. This is just an example of the opposite happening; floundering yet thriving off of the ignorance of newbies who think they're getting a good deal.
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          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
            Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

            It's when SEO starts evolving away from automated tools that you see the true pro's shine. This is just an example of the opposite happening; floundering yet thriving off of the ignorance of newbies who think they're getting a good deal.
            These sorts of techniques should be left to those with experience in conversions or you don't see any ROI. So again, this isn't for newbies.
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            • Profile picture of the author heavysm
              I have a single friend that blast/spams his sites for launch jacking. I guess it simulates his sites going viral at the last minute or whatever because he does it routinely and it works well for him.

              But, for me anyway, SEO is very much longer term so there is zero need to even contemplate such a business model. I agree though that at least some of the people doing this type of blasting understand SEO waaay better than what their SEO tricks might imply.
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              • Profile picture of the author dee4d
                Thanks for the insight, so many people will claim to sell products and services that they claim they are experts in, yet they don't even know how they operate. It's good to do proper homework before buying anything. Things that we do in a rush may have serious repercussions.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                I agree though that at least some of the people doing this type of blasting understand SEO waaay better than what their SEO tricks might imply.
                really? name one thing that being able to use a blasting tool shows that anyone understands about SEO? the principle of lots of link or chaining them together? You can teach that to any drunk totally smashed teen (you and him) at 3 AM in the morning in about five minutes.
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                • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  really? name one thing that being able to use a blasting tool shows that anyone understands about SEO? the principle of lots of link or chaining them together? You can teach that to any drunk totally smashed teen (you and him) at 3 AM in the morning in about five minutes.
                  It takes more than just blasting blindly. But what you've said here is like saying anybody can dribble the basketball so what Magic Johnson did wasn't that impressive.

                  Just because a technique isn't all that advanced doesn't mean that everybody using them is a complete noob. Afterall Steve Vai still plays open G chords, doesn't make him a fool.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                    It takes more than just blasting blindly. But what you've said here is like saying anybody can dribble the basketball so what Magic Johnson did wasn't that impressive.
                    More crap. Blasters are no hall of Fame SEO point guards -dream on. Sellers and tool fan boys always try some version of this.

                    "there is an expertise that I have in how to align my spam links so that they have magical powers. Watch the wand as I pull a rabbit out of Matt Cutts fruit of the looms"

                    There is no such great mystery. Its all rubbish. Guys all love buying tools and pretending they now own the Millenium Falcon with technology to outrun ten X wings and win over Princess Leia's heart - Can you feel the Powa! Um no its jut software that gets and puts and spin proxies - sorry you are still a geek like the rest of us not 007. You only have the license to kill rankings.

                    Every last one of the people talking about knowing how to use the softwar nowadays are referring to tiered link building. WOw rocket science there aint it? Build good tier ones, not so bad tier twos and blast the junk out of the rest to squeeze some juice. What did that take to explain the essence of?

                    Alright I lied. I could explain it to the drunk teen at 3 AM in about two minutes not five.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      More crap. Blasters are no hall of Fame SEO point guards -dream on. Sellers and tool fan boys always try some version of this.

                      "there is an expertise that I have in how to align my spam links so that they have magical powers. Watch the wand as I pull a rabbit out of Matt Cutts fruit of the looms"

                      There is no such great mystery. Its all rubbish. Guys all love buying tools and pretending they now own the Millenium Falcon with technology to outrun ten X wings and win over Princess Leia's heart - Can you feel the Powa! Um no its jut software that gets and puts and spin proxies - sorry you are still a geek like the rest of us not 007. You only have the license to kill rankings.

                      Every last one of the people talking about knowing how to use the softwar nowadays are referring to tiered link building. WOw rocket science there aint it? Build good tier ones, not so bad tier twos and blast the junk out of the rest to squeeze some juice. What did that take to explain the essence of?

                      Alright I lied. I could explain it to the drunk teen at 3 AM in about two minutes not five.
                      HAHA, OK Mike.

                      Spam still works and saying it doesn't is just denialism that would make Matt Cutts proud. Nobody is saying its rocket science but you have to have your on page perfect (which takes SEO knowledge) or you don't get the results that you would otherwise. You also have to have your site set up to convert or you won't see a ROI either. So yeah, the links themselves aren't all that "advanced" but if you just blast blindly to a site that isn't optimized for SEO or conversions this won't work for you.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                        HAHA, OK Mike.

                        Spam still works and saying it doesn't is just denialism that would make Matt Cutts proud.
                        You read as well as you do SEO. If I made a blanket statement that spam doesn't work why would I say that we should specifically point out what it works for?

                        Nobody is saying its rocket science but you have to have your on page perfect (which takes SEO knowledge) or you don't get the results that you would otherwise.
                        Total Rubbish. Theres not a soul that does on page that can proclaim their on page SEO perfect since not a one of us has access to the algo to make the comparison against the perfect factors. You are blowing smoke as usual .

                        You also have to have your site set up to convert or you won't see a ROI either
                        Thanks for the tip marc

                        So yeah, the links themselves aren't all that "advanced" but if you just blast blindly to a site that isn't optimized for SEO or conversions this won't work for you.
                        SO um that offer for blasts you have (like over on TP) includes on page AND properly setting the sites up for good conversion? Because you would be the first seller of such packages that I ever saw give a flying fig what the site was setup for. They take the money and blast regardless.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          SO um that offer for blasts you have (like over on TP) includes on page AND properly setting the sites up for good conversion? Because you would be the first seller of such packages that I ever saw give a flying fig what the site was setup for. They take the money and blast regardless.
                          No, that's why I say it isn't for newbies. This isn't that difficult Mike.
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                • Profile picture of the author heavysm
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  really? name one thing that being able to use a blasting tool shows that anyone understands about SEO? the principle of lots of link or chaining them together? You can teach that to any drunk totally smashed teen (you and him) at 3 AM in the morning in about five minutes.
                  Well, for example, back in 2011 the same friend introduced me to building my own blog network and I now have a small network i use for my personal sites and another with multiple shared hosting accounts we both use.

                  Doing the blasting stuff is still a big part of his business, but he also knows what long term SEO requires.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                    Well, for example, back in 2011 the same friend introduced me to building my own blog network and I now have a small network i use for my personal sites and another with multiple shared hosting accounts we both use.
                    I Get you but my questions is how does using blasting show that the person knows SEO? I know plenty of people who use networks and then turn right around and tank their sites using fiver gigs.
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                    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      I Get you but my questions is how does using blasting show that the person knows SEO? I know plenty of people who use networks and then turn right around and tank their sites using fiver gigs.
                      Looking at just the blasting does not show a long term knowledge of SEO (since big G wants to evolve away from spam). But you cant concentrate on that since some separate they're blasting from their actual long term SEO sites.

                      If we're just concentrating on blasting period then that discounts the other side where they actually do decent work. I wouldn't have my current knowledge without him teaching me about networks lol

                      I'd like to continue this conversation more toward the summer when big G devalues more spam links. It will be interesting to see how people handle that.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                        Looking at just the blasting does not show a long term knowledge of SEO (since big G wants to evolve away from spam). But you cant concentrate on that since some separate they're blasting from their actual long term SEO sites.
                        Like I said. I get you heavy. Understand your point. I am just pointing out for clarification that most of the time people resort to blasting its because they have a lack of SEO knowledge not a lot of it. Even though I teach people about networks just like your friend taught you about them doesn't mean that if all I knew about SEO was networks and automated SEO tools I am now a great SEO. For all I know your friend knows his stuff but personally I would not extrapolate beyond that.

                        I'd like to continue this conversation more toward the summer when big G devalues more spam links. It will be interesting to see how people handle that.
                        Guaranteed there will be some people that no matter what happens will be justifying the use of automated spammy ink. They don't know what they woudl do without it. Half this board claims White hat SEO for example does not exist.

                        He didn't say it was. He was just saying that the seo knowledge isn't necessarily indicated by a particular technique they use.
                        Last time I checked Heavy was doing a fine job at expressing himself. He doesn't need a forum whisperer.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      I Get you but my questions is how does using blasting show that the person knows SEO? I know plenty of people who use networks and then turn right around and tank their sites using fiver gigs.
                      He didn't say it was. He was just saying that the seo knowledge isn't necessarily indicated by a particular technique they use.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

          I think the link blast was for 300k but who's counting? :p

          Given the option between ranking 1 site and hoping a future update won't destroy your site some people have decided to rank quickly and bank while they can and build another site quickly (doesn't even need to be a fresh design or content, you can use the same exact site on a new domain). It isn't for everybody but that's ok.
          True, it's for newbies.

          Get A Link Blast of over 500,000
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          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            True, it's for newbies.
            No, I wouldn't say that. You may be surprised who uses this sort of technique, they aren't noobs.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

          Given the option between ranking 1 site and hoping a future update won't destroy your site some people have decided to rank quickly and bank while they can and build another site quickly
          Pure crap. These services are not designed because "we jut want to help theguy who wants to churn and burn". They are designed and sold because the service provider bought some tools and wants the cash of fools.

          Its also sold because the service providers can't evolve. Plus its all just built on a lie. There are ton loads of competitive serps where the blast won't make you rank quick at all - just tank.
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          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Pure crap. These services are not designed because "we jut want to help theguy who wants to churn and burn". They are designed and sold because the service provider bought some tools and wants the cash of fools.
            Pure opinion and pure bald assertion. You're talking out of your rear end. AKA you don't know what you're talking about.
            Its also sold because the service providers can't evolve. Plus its all just built on a lie. There are ton loads of competitive serps where the blast won't make you rank quick at all - just tank.
            Some terms will take more than spam, absolutely. I'm not sure what you mean by 'loads' of terms spam won't work but there are probably more than you realize.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

              Pure opinion and pure bald assertion. You're talking out of your rear end.
              Nope. Although I recognize your expertise and considerable experience in talking through the back seam of your pants I Only would do that if I was writing sales copy for a 100-300K blast.

              Sorry Marc......everybody has an excuse for continuing to offer their craptacular push button SPam SEO techniques from the 90s. The "I only offer it to help out the churn and burn guys" is just the latest.

              Have automated tools? Will travel. Create some crappy excuse to make bank using them. I just had an old timer take me on by PM a few days ago because I told him he might want to upgrade from selling angela profile style link packets. It was a legit offer to work with him towards that end and the poor guy got all upset claiming they still work and how dare I suggest they don't.

              Uh-huh
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              • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Nope. Although I recognize your expertise and considerable experience in talking through the back seam of your pants I Only would do that if I was writing sales copy for a 100-300K blast.

                Sorry Marc......everybody has an excuse for continuing to offer their craptacular push button SPam SEO techniques from the 90s. The "I only offer it to help out the churn and burn guys" is just the latest.

                Have automated tools? Will travel. Create some crappy excuse to make bank using them. I just had an old timer take me on by PM a few days ago because I told him he might want to upgrade from selling angela profile style link packets. It was a legit offer to work with him towards that end and the poor guy got all upset claiming they still work and how dare I suggest they don't.

                Uh-huh
                Sorry but the spam still works, it isn't going to give long lasting results but that's why its called churn and burn.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                  Sorry but the spam still works,
                  Welcome to WF where every body says that about everything while leaving out two important things

                  1) for exactly what specifically?
                  2) compared to what?

                  Building a site that can last beats the snot out of churn and burn (its kiddie business where you don't have a real idea, real site,Real product or enough imagination) but thats besides the point.

                  Sellers can sing to the cows come home. they offer these services because its easy push button money not because there is either any real expertise involved in it or because they are trying to help out churn and burners and half the time they know full well they have more newbies trying it out than experienced marketers.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Welcome to WF where every body says that about everything while leaving out two important things

                    1) for exactly what specifically?
                    Ranking sites quickly. The rankings are not going to last long term but that is part of the technique.
                    2) compared to what?

                    Building a site that can last beats the snot out of churn and burn (its kiddie business where you don't have a real idea, real site,Real product or enough imagination) but thats besides the point.
                    That's fine for you and those who don't mind the risk of getting a site smoked because Cutts wants to punish spammers. Industrial spam isn't for everybody or for every site and it isn't for newbies.
                    Sellers can sing to the cows come home. they offer these services because its easy push button money not because there is either any real expertise involved in it or because they are trying to help out churn and burners and half the time they know full well they have more newbies trying it out than experienced marketers.
                    Also it works.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                      Ranking sites quickly. The rankings are not going to last long term but that is part of the technique.
                      NO it does not and you already admitted it does not across the board. thats why the questions included the word SPECIFICALLY. telling people on a board that this or that still works in a blanket way like that is one of the things that junks up this board.

                      That's fine for you and those who don't mind the risk of getting a site smoked because Cutts wants to punish spammers. Industrial spam isn't for everybody or for every site and it isn't for newbies.
                      Industrial spam is for no one that has an original idea,a viable product they control, a good business plan and can offer something unique. Industrial spam IS for newbies and for those who stay newbies in business - who with a reach of billions across the world cannot come up with anything that saturatestheir time and is long lasting.

                      Also it works.
                      Agreed for the seller every time.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        NO it does not and you already admitted it does not across the board. thats why the questions included the word SPECIFICALLY. telling people on a board that this or that still works in a blanket way like that is one of the things that junks up this board.
                        Would you like a list of keywords and niches? C'mon.
                        Industrial spam is for no one that has an original idea,a viable product they control, a good business plan and can offer something unique. Industrial spam IS for newbies and for those who stay newbies in business - who with a reach of billions across the world cannot come up with anything that saturatestheir time and is long lasting.
                        Some of my clients make you look like you've got a lemonaid stand. You shouldn't be making blanket statements.

                        Agreed for the seller every time.
                        Most of my income comes from customers I have had a relationship with for years. The spam blasts work for my customers as they keep coming back for more. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                          No, that's why I say it isn't for newbies. This isn't that difficult Mike.
                          No it isn't but somehow you missed the point nevertheless

                          A) then it doesn't come into the discussion because its not anything the SEO seller is providing.
                          B) we both know its sold to anyone that pushes a buy it now button.

                          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                          Would you like a list of keywords and niches? C'mon.
                          NO the niches, and the level of competition

                          my clients make you look like you've got a lemonaid stand. You shouldn't be making blanket statements.
                          LOL master of logic you just made one. You don't know what my business looks like as the only thing you have ever seen is my forum only website, I don't have a lemonaid stand. I don't sell link blasts.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            LOL master of logic you just made one. You don't know what my business looks like as the only thing you have ever seen is my forum only website, I don't have a lemonaid stand. I don't sell link blasts.
                            You don't know who is using these links either but that didn't stop you from calling them Newbies.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                              Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                              You don't know who is using these links either but that didn't stop you from calling them Newbies.
                              Bored....you don't know the difference between a market observation without specifying a particular person and you making a particular comment about me and my individual business which you know nothing about. What else is new?
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                              • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                Bored....you don't know the difference between a market observation without specifying a particular person and you making a particular comment about me and my individual business which you know nothing about. What else is new?
                                But you don't know jack shit about any of the customers buying these links. All you have is a scenario that you built in your head.

                                Now I admit I don't know about your business but outside of these pissing matches I've never heard of you. So maybe you have a couple lemonaid stands, I don't know. One thing I do notice though is that you have a ton of time to post in the forum.
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                                • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                                  Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                  But you don't know jack shit about any of the customers buying these links. All you have is a scenario that you built in your head.

                                  Now I admit I don't know about your business but outside of these pissing matches I've never heard of you. So maybe you have a couple lemonaid stands, I don't know. One thing I do notice though is that you have a ton of time to post in the forum.
                                  I wish I had read these "disclaimers" before buying a bunch of Matt's bull$hit links. I also noticed a bit of click fraud on my adwords accounts since having the pissing contest with you and your accomplice.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                                    Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                                    I wish I had read these "disclaimers" before buying a bunch of Matt's bull links. I also noticed a bit of click fraud on my adwords accounts since having the pissing contest with you and your accomplice.
                                    You're talking about two different things.

                                    Secondly, you're making some pretty strong accusations here without evidence.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                                      Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                      You're talking about two different things.

                                      Secondly, you're making some pretty strong accusations here without evidence.
                                      Not an accusation, just an observation. You have a bit of a reading comprehension problem. Learn the difference, Champ!
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                                        Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                                        Not an accusation, just an observation. You have a bit of a reading comprehension problem.
                                        Quite the observation! The implication is pretty clear.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                                          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                          Quite the observation! The implication is pretty clear.
                                          Just a coincidence, I guess. lol Having these conversations with you guys is like taking with mafia lawyers. The truth doesn't matter, right?

                                          Have a nice life, pal!
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                                            Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                                            Just a coincidence, I guess. lol Having these conversations with you guys is like taking with mafia lawyers. The truth doesn't matter, right?
                                            The truth isn't that we are committing click fraud, that is certain.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                                              Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                              The truth isn't that we are committing click fraud, that is certain.
                                              The truth is that I paid you guys for SEO services and you did not touch some of the campaigns since November 16, 2012. I would not call that fraud, but it's sure as hell bad business!

                                              I guess the other is just an odd coincidence.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                                                Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

                                                The truth is that I paid you guys for SEO services and you did not touch some of the campaigns since November 16, 2012. I would not call that fraud, but it's sure as hell bad business!

                                                I guess the other is just an odd coincidence.
                                                That isn't the truth either. Updating a ticket isn't the only time work is done. But you're right that you should have been updated more frequently, I sincerely apologize.

                                                Look, I understand you're upset. If I was in your shoes I'd be upset as well. Why not add me to skype so we can talk about your site? I have some ideas on what we should do next but I'd like to talk to you about it first.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author longrobnc
                                                  Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                                  That isn't the truth either. Updating a ticket isn't the only time work is done. But you're right that you should have been updated more frequently, I sincerely apologize.

                                                  Look, I understand you're upset. If I was in your shoes I'd be upset as well. Why not add me to skype so we can talk about your site? I have some ideas on what we should do next but I'd like to talk to you about it first.
                                                  Marc,

                                                  I did what your team asked me to do and I tracked the keywords in serpfox where I was told to. They did not improve. What Matt claimed in regard to my overall rankings was quite dishonest. It just enflamed a situation where I already felt ripped off. He was also very dismissive. I would offer a refund in a situation like this when I could not improve a buyers rankings which were guaranteed. Hell, some of the keywords have as little as 200 monthly searches.

                                                  I appreciate the olive branch, however, I don't use skype and I hired another SEO firm over the weekend. I don't have another 8 or 9 months to wait.

                                                  BTW, I really did not appreciate Matt announcing my business type and keywords on the forum.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
                                                    Originally Posted by Slin View Post

                                                    I guess it depends on what you consider quality content.

                                                    If you're talking about link baiting, like seomoz guys tell you to do, then yeah, i'd agree with that.

                                                    I think that's the problem, if you say content is king, well what kind of content? Link baiting is a great strategy, but I fear that too many newbies will start a large site thinking content is king, and then never ranking because they haven't realized what kind of content is king.
                                                    Your right in what you say, you need to be able to talk about your topic in an engaging manner, know enough about the topic/topics you write about and the reader will see you as a person who knows what they are talking about, offer value and content that will benefit them, find the problem, talk about it and solve it, and you are guaranteed people will share it.

                                                    Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                                    Obviously this would be the best way to build a site. Have people love it and then they share it organically. Problem is most people don't have the talent to create these sites.
                                                    Yea its definitely the best way to rank a website. If you read the large post i submitted above you'll see why most people don't have the ability to write this quality content.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author synaptium
                                                      Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

                                                      Your right in what you say, you need to be able to talk about your topic in an engaging manner, know enough about the topic/topics you write about and the reader will see you as a person who knows what they are talking about, offer value and content that will benefit them, find the problem, talk about it and solve it, and you are guaranteed people will share it.



                                                      Yea its definitely the best way to rank a website. If you read the large post i submitted above you'll see why most people don't have the ability to write this quality content.

                                                      So aaron , you are saying writing engaging content is the solution?

                                                      Really? Thats all?
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                                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                  Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                  But you don't know jack shit about any of the customers buying these links.
                                  Sure I do. You can know some of a market's demographics without knowing the individual buyers. Just like people can know why others buy WSOs without knowing specifically who. Your attempt to conflate that with knowing a specific individual's situation such as me is still an abject failure as you have admitted.


                                  One thing I do notice though is that you have a ton of time to post in the forum.
                                  You got me marc. Nearly 2,000 thanks and all from participating and giving out free information but ummm

                                  excuse me a moment

                                  LOL.....Was I was just questioned by a Laclear for my involvement on WF resulting in sales?

                                  Life is filed with hilarious moments.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                    Sure I do. You can know some of a market's demographics without knowing the individual buyers. Just like people can know why others buy WSOs without knowing specifically who. Your attempt to conflate that with knowing a specific individual's situation such as me is still an abject failure as you have admitted.
                                    But you don't know jack shit about the demographics either. You're saying they are newbies when you don't know anything about them.

                                    I'm not accusing you of boosting your sales by posting here. Just saying you seem to have a lot of time on your hands.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                      Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                                      But you don't know jack shit about the demographics either. You're saying they are newbies when you don't know anything about them.
                                      Marc spin all you want but EVERYONE Here knows why people buy Fiverr gigs which consist of the same kind of link wheels, tiered link building yada yada. NO one needs either your permission or approval to state the known facts . End of the day we all know here that newbies try out all kinds of garbage on their sites and yes we KNOW that some of them buy services like that.

                                      I'm not accusing you of boosting your sales by posting here. Just saying you seem to have a lot of time on your hands.
                                      No doubt about it my client to dollar ratio is much better than doing WSOs. I don't have to take on 200 customers to make $20,000. I actually should have more free time (with much better results)when I finish my new streamlining. I don't even have to teach VAs how to work Senuke, amr, Licorne. They just need to know how to post articles and blog entries and most already do. You should have the time though. You spin content while I have to come up with decent original stuff. SInce its mostly push button you should be better organized and have more time to give back to the community like I know you are dying to
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                        anyways this thread has fulfilled its purpose. P2 has more or less settled in and yes now approaching nearly a week some legitimate analysis can be done SO there actually can be some services now that can claim things with enough time to properly analyze.
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    • Profile picture of the author PeckhamPirate
      Originally Posted by longrobnc View Post

      I've laclearly been hustled!
      What you too. Lost my main source of income for the last five years thanks to the same thing. How come nobody's been more vocal in pulling certain suppliers down?

      S'pose you pays your money and you takes your choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Dang Mike why are you outting??

    That was my Alaskan cruise money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Dang Mike why are you outting??

      That was my Alaskan cruise money.

      I know. It was intended. You are a mom. You need to set your rump roast in Mehico and stop partying all over the world with "Penguin 2.0 Ninja" Product money.
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  • Profile picture of the author YellowGreenMedia
    LOL i have gotten two mails letterly minutes after the message got out that P2 was rolled out, stating that they had beaten the code and had a great backlink solution for me for $7- :rolleyes:

    First thing i did was unsubscribe from those lists, this is the golden day's for marketers and link sellers, they know for days/weeks that P2 is coming, they invent some 100% P2 save backlink product and cash in on the mass hysteria.

    It's a way of making money i guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author squadron
    I got an email this morning promoting a "social signals" plugin, I suspect it was the same one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Now the same guy I mentioned in the Op is at it again with another email. Basically another item he has been selling is now directly tied in to Penguin 2.O.
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    Kinda funny how EVERYTIME google updates it does not matter how big are small it is I get 3-5 Emails for the next big fix
    In my eyes they are all scams to early for anyone to know what it is about that fast after every update
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Curry
    I'm just wondering how you got on his list the first place lol
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Adam Curry View Post

      I'm just wondering how you got on his list the first place lol

      I dunno because I have told him in open threads how over hyped his SEO plugin is. I mean just as gently as I always do (:p) so I was like what in the world is this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
    Happy Memorial Day everybody! I'm getting off and spend some time with the family.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tuned
    Some one laclearly is just a conversational wizard
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    Feel Free To Visit My Blog about cute nicknames

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  • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
    Sooo funny this thread. So many people are blind in the world of SEO today. Not pointing the finger at anyone here, mainly at the people who buy so called SEO services, but this is my 2 cents.

    This is the best advice for anyone who is trying to rank in the search engines, now listen carefully. Forget about all this crap about SEO, why some people get involved in buying links, and blasts, and some secret SEO method that will guarantee rankings is beyond me, it doesn't work, it may work for a few weeks or a month or slightly more. But it doesn't work, why? Your just gona get caught and bitch slapped by a penguin and shafted by a panda.

    Forget about I need links, I need web 2.0 links, i need relevant links and all sorts of links.

    One word here - *****C-O-N-T-E-N-T***** That is what will get you ranked in the search engine over any other method in the world of SEO today.

    You provide QUALITY content then you have nothing to worry about, hell you don't need to worry about links. Why? Well if you have quality content the links appear naturally, people will share your post, people will comment, people will share and share. There, that's your backlinks sorted.

    I don't need to go into detail on the other SEO methods like on page and off page which are common sense, well to people that understand SEO.

    Provide quality content and you won't need to spend a penny on anything but your hosting and domain name.

    Without the quality content your just wasting your time.
    And before anyone goes off and says there are sites ranking with the black-hat methods, yes its true, but that won't be an affective strategy for much longer trust me.

    Only one problem here - CONTENT.
    Most People don't have the drive or the ability to write quality content. But I suppose that's good news for me and anyone else who is a writer. The world of freelance writing will be booming bigger than ever in the future, when people who cant be assed to write or cant write quality content will eventually give in and pay someone who can.

    One last reminder - Forget about SEO strategies, CONTENT is the new SEO.

    Thats more than my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author howto
      Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

      One word here - *****C-O-N-T-E-N-T***** That is what will get you ranked in the search engine over any other method in the world of SEO today.

      You provide QUALITY content then you have nothing to worry about, hell you don't need to worry about links. Why? Well if you have quality content the links appear naturally, people will share your post, people will comment, people will share and share. There, that's your backlinks sorted.
      Yeah bro, I will just write some quality content with the keyword 'payday loans' and I will hit the top spot in no time! Give us a break, if your idea of SEO is just writing a nice article then why are you on the SEO forum? Without backlinks you will never rank your content for anything competitive. What you're saying is laughable. Even if the SEO strategies only work for a few years, in that time via the SEO traffic generated I would have built up a brand with thousands of repeat visits as well as thousands of natural links made by people visiting the site. Just writing some content and hoping for the best is a waste of time. I see plenty of people on page 10 or more in my niche doing just that. The people on the first page with me do SEO, or created their site in the 90s giving them a massive head start.
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      • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
        Originally Posted by howto View Post

        Yeah bro, I will just write some quality content with the keyword 'payday loans' and I will hit the top spot in no time! Give us a break, if your idea of SEO is just writing a nice article then why are you on the SEO forum? Without backlinks you will never rank your content for anything competitive. What you're saying is laughable. Even if the SEO strategies only work for a few years, in that time via the SEO traffic generated I would have built up a brand with thousands of repeat visits as well as thousands of natural links made by people visiting the site. Just writing some content and hoping for the best is a waste of time. I see plenty of people on page 10 or more in my niche doing just that. The people on the first page with me do SEO, or created their site in the 90s giving them a massive head start.
        Lift your head out of the sand mate, for a start payday loans is irrelevant here, why waste your time using that as an example. I never said my idea of SEO is writing a nice article, never mentioned it. Me on an SEO forum, I am quite entitled to do so, as are you, again completely irrelevant to the matter.

        What I'm saying is laughable to you, wake up and smell the coffee son, you can rank a site on page one with one piece of content on it and a picture, if you know how too. Just writing some content you say, sorry writing content is what it's all about, sooner you realise that the better. It's always about content, and always will be.

        So your on the first page then, congrats, keep it adding quality content well, or you'll slowly drop away. Getting links from relevant places coupled with QUALITY CONTENT is how you rank a website these days.

        If you want to blabber on about SEO then be my guest. Content is the new SEO, you'll realise that sooner or later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    I have the secret of penguin 2.0.

    If you guys want to know it, just send 77$ to my paypal. I'll let you in on it.

    Is it me, or did penguin 2.0 make it easier to rank?

    I'm so tired of reading about how "content is king, backlinks are dead" or "backlinks are king, content is dead"

    Or

    "Web 2.0 is rocking the serps!" And seeing a link in the sig. for web2.0

    When the real "secret" seems to be to build links to a site that has some content on it. Hmmm...something i've been doing since 2009. I guess I should just avoid the forums for the next few weeks. Right now it's just marketing central for the SEO guys, I should tell the guy who supplies my seo for me, he's a good guy and deserves the customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
      Originally Posted by Slin View Post

      I have the secret of penguin 2.0.

      If you guys want to know it, just send 77$ to my paypal. I'll let you in on it.

      Is it me, or did penguin 2.0 make it easier to rank?

      I'm so tired of reading about how "content is king, backlinks are dead" or "backlinks are king, content is dead"

      Or

      "Web 2.0 is rocking the serps!" And seeing a link in the sig. for web2.0

      When the real "secret" seems to be to build links to a site that has some content on it. Hmmm...something i've been doing since 2009. I guess I should just avoid the forums for the next few weeks. Right now it's just marketing central for the SEO guys, I should tell the guy who supplies my seo for me, he's a good guy and deserves the customers.
      You may be sick of hearing about content is king, but unfortunately it has to be said to get it into some peoples heads. Because it is.

      And yes Google have never made it hard in the first place. Provide quality content and thats all there is too it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Slin
        Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

        You may be sick of hearing about content is king, but unfortunately it has to be said to get it into some peoples heads. Because it is.

        And yes Google have never made it hard in the first place. Provide quality content and thats all there is too it.
        I'd have to disagree.

        Content is important, yeah, but really it's not the "end all"

        I mean heck, you could make a huge website based around a niche, but I could make a six page blog and out-rank you if I did a proper backlink campaign, and you did nothing.

        Both are needed. Which is more important I think is where the arguments start popping up.
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        • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
          Originally Posted by Slin View Post

          I'd have to disagree.

          Content is important, yeah, but really it's not the "end all"

          I mean heck, you could make a huge website based around a niche, but I could make a six page blog and out-rank you if I did a proper backlink campaign, and you did nothing.

          Both are needed. Which is more important I think is where the arguments start popping up.
          You'll find that creating quality content will provide more backlinks than you can think off, yes its common sense to promote your content yourself. But you only need to do that once a day and if your content is truly quality then the readers will do the rest.
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          • Profile picture of the author Slin
            Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

            You'll find that creating quality content will provide more backlinks than you can think off, yes its common sense to promote your content yourself. But you only need to do that once a day and if your content is truly quality then the readers will do the rest.
            I guess it depends on what you consider quality content.

            If you're talking about link baiting, like seomoz guys tell you to do, then yeah, i'd agree with that.

            I think that's the problem, if you say content is king, well what kind of content? Link baiting is a great strategy, but I fear that too many newbies will start a large site thinking content is king, and then never ranking because they haven't realized what kind of content is king.
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          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
            Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

            You'll find that creating quality content will provide more backlinks than you can think off, yes its common sense to promote your content yourself. But you only need to do that once a day and if your content is truly quality then the readers will do the rest.
            Obviously this would be the best way to build a site. Have people love it and then they share it organically. Problem is most people don't have the talent to create these sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Slin View Post


          Both are needed. Which is more important I think is where the arguments start popping up.
          Totally agree. Thing is - people don't want to hear about good content because its expensive and or time consuming. Thats also why you see the services you do in forums. Its a simple matter of either spinning some original content hundreds of times or scraping someone elses article (called in most places outside internet forums - stealing).

          THeres a reason people buy a copy of senukeX, maybe UD and Licorne/Gsa and then proclaim themselves SEOs ready to take customers - because a lot of the time they have guessed correctly that the existing services they see are not doing much more than that.
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  • Profile picture of the author EdwardDennis
    If Mike was a moderator, I think he would have banned LC brothers.
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  • Profile picture of the author synaptium
    Guys, obviously we nebiws know you guys are the gurus and know your stuff. But for christ sake stop telling us what does not work. Tell us what works!!!

    OMG!!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Hansons
      Originally Posted by synaptium View Post

      Guys, obviously we nebiws know you guys are the gurus and know your stuff. But for christ sake stop telling us what does not work. Tell us what works!!!

      OMG!!!!!
      But you have to know both, positive and negative things......to produce quality work.
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      • Profile picture of the author synaptium
        What works. Thats the million dollar question.

        I am tired of all the arguments. I am tired of buying course after course.

        What works.
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        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by synaptium View Post

          What works. Thats the million dollar question.

          I am tired of all the arguments. I am tired of buying course after course.

          What works.
          High PR semantically related links from authoritative websites. That has 'worked' ever since Google first rolled out an update.
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    • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
      Originally Posted by synaptium View Post

      Guys, obviously we nebiws know you guys are the gurus and know your stuff. But for christ sake stop telling us what does not work. Tell us what works!!!

      OMG!!!!!
      I think I made it pretty clear what works??????
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by EdwardDennis View Post

      If Mike was a moderator, I think he would have banned LC brothers.
      Nope not for any disagreemnt in threads . NOt a great fan of banning just on the basis of disagreement. I can think of at least one other regular here who might though. Immaterial though. We are not mods and I would not want the job



      Originally Posted by synaptium View Post

      Guys, obviously we nebiws know you guys are the gurus and know your stuff. But for christ sake stop telling us what does not work. Tell us what works!!!

      OMG!!!!!
      Syn you are asking to be spoon fed and judging by your amount of thanks over two years you haven't added anything much to be demanding and getting an attitude like you are owed something.

      Seriously IF you can't find what works on this forum then you are not reading very well. You can look at Penguin threads and see it clear as day by those telling you what and what does not still work.

      Every thread does not have to be broken down into cliff notes. You want to make money then you have to apply yourself. Plus I know no regular contributor here who considers themselves gurus. There are those that seldom post in this section who do so to declare the greatness of their service but none of the regulars I know have ever claimed gurus status (although there is the occasional idiot that swears they know Quan means master or guru)
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  • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
    Ask yourself what these people who are searching the internet are looking for?

    A solution to a problem, information, some knowledge or education on a certain topic.

    How do we provide this to them - CONTENT. Quality content at that. If it's engaging, they will like it, they will share it on facebook, twitter, the list goes on.

    That creates back links, and the more quality content you provide the more people share it. Which equals Google seeing you as a go to site for this information.
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    • Profile picture of the author synaptium
      Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

      Your right in what you say, you need to be able to talk about your topic in an engaging manner, know enough about the topic/topics you write about and the reader will see you as a person who knows what they are talking about, offer value and content that will benefit them, find the problem, talk about it and solve it, and you are guaranteed people will share it.



      Yea its definitely the best way to rank a website. If you read the large post i submitted above you'll see why most people don't have the ability to write this quality content.
      Ok. At least you replied.. Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    Anyone who sends me a "Beat Penguin 2.0 Now!" email is instantly unsubscribed.
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    I Sell What People Want. The Money Is A Bonus..
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by aaronjunited View Post

      Ask yourself what these people who are searching the internet are looking for?

      A solution to a problem, information, some knowledge or education on a certain topic.

      How do we provide this to them - CONTENT. Quality content at that. If it's engaging, they will like it, they will share it on facebook, twitter, the list goes on.

      That creates back links, and the more quality content you provide the more people share it. Which equals Google seeing you as a go to site for this information.
      First of all, Facebook links, Twitter links, etc. don't do squat for rankings in anything except niches with no competition.

      On top of that just creating content doesn't work for most niches. I have a client running a pizza shop. Outside of a few Facebook shares, you think people are really going to link to that? They do great business. Tons of customers. Most customers do not run a website relating to their business to even give them a link if they wanted to.

      I have another client that sells industrial shredders. Destroys all kinds of data storage devices. Who the hell is just going to link to that, much less even find their site if there are not some links pointing at it?

      Content is a very small part of a good SEO strategy.
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      • Profile picture of the author smodha
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        First of all, Facebook links, Twitter links, etc. don't do squat for rankings in anything except niches with no competition.

        On top of that just creating content doesn't work for most niches. I have a client running a pizza shop. Outside of a few Facebook shares, you think people are really going to link to that? They do great business. Tons of customers. Most customers do not run a website relating to their business to even give them a link if they wanted to.

        I have another client that sells industrial shredders. Destroys all kinds of data storage devices. Who the hell is just going to link to that, much less even find their site if there are not some links pointing at it?

        Content is a very small part of a good SEO strategy.
        Some good points there Mike but do you not think that social media is all about exposure/traffic and less about links/SEO?

        One of my clients sells Gluten free products. I use FB marketing to drive customers to her page. In terms of pure SEO - FB does jack but the 2500 Likes on her fan page makes it easier for us to promote products and coupon codes for her business. FB is perfect because I can target residual customers.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by smodha View Post

          Some good points there Mike but do you not think that social media is all about exposure/traffic and less about links/SEO?

          One of my clients sells Gluten free products. I use FB marketing to drive customers to her page. In terms of pure SEO - FB does jack but the 2500 Likes on her fan page makes it easier for us to promote products and coupon codes for her business. FB is perfect because I can target residual customers.

          I'm pretty sure that is basically what I just said. SEO-wise it is near useless.

          On a side note, Gluten free... what a scam that shit is. The only people that should be eating Gluten free are those with celiac disease. It somehow has been marketed as a healthier diet for everyone though, which is utter crap. It's actually unhealthy for the rest of us.
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          • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            On a side note, Gluten free... what a scam that shit is. The only people that should be eating Gluten free are those with celiac disease. It somehow has been marketed as a healthier diet for everyone though, which is utter crap. It's actually unhealthy for the rest of us.

            really?
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          • Profile picture of the author smodha
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            I'm pretty sure that is basically what I just said. SEO-wise it is near useless.

            On a side note, Gluten free... what a scam that shit is. The only people that should be eating Gluten free are those with celiac disease. It somehow has been marketed as a healthier diet for everyone though, which is utter crap. It's actually unhealthy for the rest of us.
            BIG LOL...well my client is marketing products aimed for people who want a Gluten free lifestyle or those who suffer from Celiac disease.

            It's a lifestyle choice and at no point do we market these products to everyone. Her business just presents the facts.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by smodha View Post

              BIG LOL...well my client is marketing products aimed for people who want a Gluten free lifestyle or those who suffer from Celiac disease.

              It's a lifestyle choice and at no point do we market these products to everyone. Her business just presents the facts.

              Wasn't talking about your client in particular, just the industry as a whole which is becoming similar to MLM's and internet marketers.

              Anyhow, back to SEO stuff
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Content is a very small part of a good SEO strategy.
        I think I get your point with content attracting links but just in case newbies get confused by the above quoted line

        That is only because when we get business customers they already have a viable site with content. You and I both know that if the site is truly crappy it makes building links INCREDIBLY risky for us and our network and link resources. Then there are local directories or even industry link or resources page where the site has to at least look viable or the webmaster will not approve the listing.

        No the Pizza shop might not have some great how to content but the site should have the content of what kind of pizzas are offered, location/directions. prices and even the graphics and design of the site shouldn't be something from the 80s. PLus almost all companies have sales etc and that can be tied into the SEO.

        Finally I don't know about you but content is huge for me on my network that I use to rank. I'm spending money,time and a whole lot of effort to revamp them. SO though I get what you are saying I really couldn't say content is a small part of SEO to me.

        but in terms of getting people to link to a site BEYOND having a well built site and having good content that links to the money site I accept your point.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I think I get your point with content attracting links but just in case newbies get confused by the above quoted line

          That is only because when we get business customers they already have a viable site with content. You and I both know that if the site is truly crappy it makes building links INCREDIBLY risky for us and our network and link resources. Then there are local directories or even industry link or resources page where the site has to at least look viable or the webmaster will not approve the listing.

          No the Pizza shop might not have some great how to content but the site should have the content of what kind of pizzas are offered, location/directions. prices and even the graphics and design of the site shouldn't be something from the 80s. PLus almost all companies have sales etc and that can be tied into the SEO.

          Finally I don't know about you but content is huge for me on my network that I use to rank. I'm spending money,time and a whole lot of effort to revamp them. SO though I get what you are saying I really couldn't say content is a small part of SEO to me.

          but in terms of getting people to link to a site BEYOND having a well built site and having good content that links to the money site I accept your point.
          Content on a network is something completely different. I'm not trying to rank the network sites. I'm worried about the content there to keep the network safe.

          For the pizza shop example, the content is important for converting traffic into sales, but the content could be crap and I could still rank it. I would choose not to unless they improved their site, but that doesn't mean good content is necessary to rank a site like that.

          Either way, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that just putting up a good website is not enough to rank a site like that.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            Content on a network is something completely different. I'm not trying to rank the network sites. I'm worried about the content there to keep the network safe.
            Well as long as I have to worry about it as a SEO then its a part of SEO to me and yes if the customer wants his SEO to look natural you cannot say it is a small part of SEO. There are a ton load of businesses out there that want their links to look natural and there is no way you can do that if the content on the site is crappy. IF you are talking about people here in this forum without an offline business then its even worse because most of them do need some good content.

            For the pizza shop example, the content is important for converting traffic into sales, but the content could be crap and I could still rank it. I would choose not to unless they improved their site, but that doesn't mean good content is necessary to rank a site like that.
            What are you talking about Mike? In many niches how long will you rank for if the content is crap before a competitor reports you? We see how that works with every algo update. What happens? people start pointing at the site they know shouldn't be ranking in large part because the lack of content or its crappiness.

            SEO is not ranking for a week or a month. SEO also involves staying ranked so there is no way that anyone can sell that content is not a fundamental part of SEO.

            Either way, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that just putting up a good website is not enough to rank a site like that.
            I get you on that Mike. As another poster so rightfully said it takes both but he also pointed out what happens is that people start pitting linking against content. It takes both.

            They aint fighting each other.
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            • Profile picture of the author st24a
              Well here's my newbie's two cents - I'm sure I'm gonna get raked over the coals... but being an old fart, tbh I really don't give a damn.

              This maybe my first attempt at internet marketing but I have successfully run my own consulting business for over 20 years. I earn a good living, although I am not a millionaire.. well actually I may be on paper but what counts is disposable income, money in the bank (which would make me broke!). My strategy from the beginning was to have a very small customer base that I would give that extra attention to - That was my niche, I've done well at it. However, I work about 75 hours a week and so its time to re-assess my business model.

              Which brings me to my point (hey I am an old fart - forgive the rambling). The process of selling is about having an understanding of your target audience and making a compelling connection with them. This hasn't changed in thousands of years. Content, SEO, whatever... it's all important in varying degrees depending on the product you are selling and who you are selling to - technology may have changed but the process of making a sell is still the same.

              Look no further than this forum to prove both points. There's a hell of a lot of crap on here with poor content that is selling very well because the seller knows how to make that compelling human connection, and there's a lot of good content that never sees the light of day because the seller thought if he builds it they will buy. There is also a lot of websites ranking no.1 in their target keywords that aren't getting any sells either (at least in some of the niches I have been researching) because someone spent so much time getting people to his site there was no compelling human connection to buy when they got there due to lack of content.

              Content, SEO.. both have their place and are effective tools to help make that compelling connection. Research, action (ie content, marketing, whatever), measure results.. go back to the beginning. Be objective about your results, be prepared to change everything. Let the sales... or lack of do the talking.

              Anyways, that's my two cents.. I need go take a nap.

              ST
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              What are you talking about Mike? In many niches how long will you rank for if the content is crap before a competitor reports you? We see how that works with every algo update. What happens? people start pointing at the site they know shouldn't be ranking in large part because the lack of content or its crappiness.
              Look all I am addressing is the person who was ranting about all you need is content. My point was I can rank a site with shitty content if I had to. I'm not talking about how I work with clients or anything to do with my business. I was talking about the whole "if you build it, they will come" bullshit.

              If your offsite SEO is strong enough you can rank crap content. Except in the weakest of niches, the opposite is not true. You cannot rank a site purely based on having good content with no links pointing at it. And sitting around praying someone will find you, like your content, and just happen to have a website of their own where they can build a link to you is a stupid strategy.

              Of course people should build a website with good content. If they are building links, of course they should use good content for that too. For a long-term business strategy, only a moron would say otherwise.
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              • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
                Content is for people. Google isn't to the point where it can distinguish between Shakespeare quality and something my second grader could write. It can count words and characters, it may have some simple spell check/grammar algo's built in. But that's about it. It's not picking up spun content as far as I can tell and we all know spun content is garbage. So content helps convert, content can make or break you if you happen to get manually reviewed but quality of content isn't a ranking factor yet. JMO
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              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                I was talking about the whole "if you build it, they will come" bullshit.

                You cannot rank a site purely based on having good content with no links pointing at it. And sitting around praying someone will find you,
                Actually, http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...live-well.html

                Myself and a few others have built sites with no links, just content only to receive long tail traffic, and I do believe given enough content you would see a good amount of organic traffic. And if your content is good someone will link to you.
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  Actually, http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...live-well.html

                  Myself and a few others have built sites with no links, just content only to receive long tail traffic, and I do believe given enough content you would see a good amount of organic traffic. And if your content is good someone will link to you.

                  Well, you missed this part of my post...
                  Except in the weakest of niches
                  I'm not talking about Amazon and AdSense sites. I'm talking about real live businesses.
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                  • Profile picture of the author nest28
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    Well, you missed this part of my post...

                    I'm not talking about Amazon and AdSense sites. I'm talking about real live businesses.
                    Correct, I misunderstood. "New York Lawyers" won't rank on content alone, it would be very competitive in which case you would need a great off-page SEO plan.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                      Correct, I misunderstood. "New York Lawyers" won't rank on content alone, it would be very competitive in which case you would need a great off-page SEO plan.

                      Exactly. Content alone is just not practical for most situations.

                      Now if you are targeting keywords specifically because content alone might be enough to rank highly, that is something completely different.
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                • Profile picture of the author aaronjunited
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  Actually, http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...live-well.html

                  Myself and a few others have built sites with no links, just content only to receive long tail traffic, and I do believe given enough content you would see a good amount of organic traffic. And if your content is good someone will link to you.
                  This guy is talking complete sense, hip hip hurray!

                  Thank you.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                I'm not talking about how I work with clients or anything to do with my business. I was talking about the whole "if you build it, they will come" bullshit.
                MIke I have addressed that issue twice. I know that is your issue but my point is that in refuting that the other extreme side is to say content is a small part of SEO. It isn't and its misleading.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Hi nest!

    Nobody is hating, but checking out the longtails... some are one or two searches a month. That means nobody is targeting them. That means I could pick one a keyword like that write some crap content (in theory) and build some links and I'd rank. Let's say all else is equal... you and I build two pages, all else is equal EXCEPT my content is spun garbage and your content is genius. It's a toss up, but then let's say I get a juicy backlink and you have none. I Win. We're not talking ethics or what's a good idea here... we're talking algos. And based on the current algo Google still can't determine quality content, not like you or I could.

    Now when you start to factor in things like bounce rate etc... user experience, then you go hmmm maybe I need to write content people want to read. Or then again I could keep my crappy spun content and just add a bunch of awesome images

    Again the question isn't: Is writing good content a waste of time?
    And it's not: Should I fill my pages with crappy content?
    The question is: Is good content enough?
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Hi nest!

      Nobody is hating, but checking out the longtails... some are one or two searches a month. That means nobody is targeting them. That means I could pick one a keyword like that write some crap content (in theory) and build some links and I'd rank. Let's say all else is equal... you and I build two pages, all else is equal EXCEPT my content is spun garbage and your content is genius. It's a toss up, but then let's say I get a juicy backlink and you have none. I Win. We're not talking ethics or what's a good idea here... we're talking algos. And based on the current algo Google still can't determine quality content, not like you or I could.

      Now when you start to factor in things like bounce rate etc... user experience, then you go hmmm maybe I need to write content people want to read. Or then again I could keep my crappy spun content and just add a bunch of awesome images

      Again the question isn't: Is writing good content a waste of time?
      And it's not: Should I fill my pages with crappy content?
      The question is: Is good content enough?
      Hello, good questions. Honestly as soon as I come across a crappy site I leave and go to the next one down. So if you were number 1 with crappy content but great links and I was number 2, I think I would still get just as much traffic as you.


      So if 500 people searched for our keyword, I think at least 400 would leave your site and come to mine (imaginary site of course lol) and 100 would probably either click a ad or just give up.


      Oh and long tails usually have more searches than what the keyword tools tell you. I had this one phrase that when I searched it on Google's Adword tool, it said 0, but that same search phrase brought in 2,000 visitors over the course of 6 months. There were many cases like that.


      Honestly I never link to sites, not even the ones I can't live without, idk how the hell they get links lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Hello, good questions. Honestly as soon as I come across a crappy site I leave and go to the next one down. So if you were number 1 with crappy content but great links and I was number 2, I think I would still get just as much traffic as you.


        So if 500 people searched for our keyword, I think at least 400 would leave your site and come to mine (imaginary site of course lol) and 100 would probably either click a ad or just give up.


        Oh and long tails usually have more searches than what the keyword tools tell you. I had this one phrase that when I searched it on Google's Adword tool, it said 0, but that same search phrase brought in 2,000 visitors over the course of 6 months. There were many cases like that.


        Honestly I never link to sites, not even the ones I can't live without, idk how the hell they get links lol.
        Oh I get you, but again... you are talking about people. Not Google.
        Look at it this way... I could rank 9 more sites with crappy content before your site by building links to them. Then you are pushed off the first page. THAT is why content is not enough in anything but the lowest competitive niches.
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        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

          Oh I get you, but again... you are talking about people. Not Google.
          Look at it this way... I could rank 9 more sites with crappy content before your site by building links to them. Then you are pushed off the first page. THAT is why content is not enough in anything but the lowest competitive niches.
          I guess the best advice is to have the best of both worlds, great content and links.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          Hello, good questions. Honestly as soon as I come across a crappy site I leave and go to the next one down. So if you were number 1 with crappy content but great links and I was number 2, I think I would still get just as much traffic as you.
          Great point. the whole point of doing SEO is to get user traffic. Its not a separate issue to SEO- its the whole issue. thats why to be honest I roll my eyes with the whole I can rank a blank site nonsense. Who the flip cares? SEO is all about getting real traffic that the webmaster can do something with. I don't know a single business person that will keep paying me if he ranks number one but everybody clicks the back button immediately


          Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

          Look at it this way... I could rank 9 more sites with crappy content before your site by building links to them. Then you are pushed off the first page. THAT is why content is not enough in anything but the lowest competitive niches.
          SD again only in an either or context. I will kick your 9 sites going and coming with both. I still don't get why when someone says you can rank with content alone the answer has to be you can rank with links alone.
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          • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            SD again only in an either or context. I will kick your 9 sites going and coming with both. I still don't get why when someone says you can rank with content alone the answer has to be you can rank with links alone.
            I'm answering your nit picking by splitting hairs

            Great content is not enough and I think it's important to emphasize that. I think looking at the threads on this forum on any given day more people struggle with the links than with the content (unless you count people who's first language isn't English but that is a separate issue and not fixable on this board.)

            People can create/buy good quality content very easily, but how many on here are building great links? How many people on here can tell a good link from a bad link? There is a lower barrier to entry involved in content creation... People learn to write in grade school. How long did you take to become really good at offsite SEO? They don't teach that in school.

            How many people on here were penalized by Google for links as opposed to not having "great converting content"?

            If your content sucks you don't sell.
            If your links suck your site could drop off the SERPs.
            Which should we be teaching newbs is more important TO RANK? Because this is the SEO board.

            SEO= search engine optimization, not "people optimization"

            Internet Marketing (IM) is where great content comes into play.

            So to say "great content is important to SEO" is not true (yet) because search engines can't judge that yet. But is it important to IM? Absolutely. But these are two separate terms, SEO is a faction of IM but not all IM is SEO. And that's for the newbs obviously I know that you already know that
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

              I'm answering your nit picking by splitting hairs
              No you are not . You are just sore about the rump roast in Mehico comment. You are fooling no one

              I think it's important to emphasize that. I think looking at the threads on this forum on any given day more people struggle with the links than with the content
              Nooooooooooooo! That explains the difference in point of view. I beg to differ as someone who always has people contacting me by PM to look at their site (I dunno its like they think I am -And I bet some others like MIkeF and Yukon - WF SEO help desk). I'd say over 90% of the sites I see are crappy content sites. Besides a few business owners its all wordpress with a few article MFAs or affiliate sites. Some of the greatest proponents of links versus content are in fact spinners and people who just want to run tools and cannot write for nothing.

              People can create/buy good quality content very easily
              Really? You are assuming too much. Go ahead and click on a few links in people sigs - the non seo IM ones are a doozy.
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              • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                No you are not . You are just sore about the rump roast in Mehico comment. You are fooling no one



                Nooooooooooooo! That explains the difference in point of view. I beg to differ as someone who always has people contacting me by PM to look at their site (I dunno its like they think I am -And I bet some others like MIkeF and Yukon - WF SEO help desk). I'd say over 90% of the sites I see are crappy content sites. Besides a few business owners its all wordpress with a few article MFAs or affiliate sites. Some of the greatest proponents of links versus content are in fact spinners and people who just want to run tools and cannot write for nothing.



                Really? You are assuming too much. Go ahead and click on a few links in people sigs - the non seo IM ones are a doozy.

                Hey boss, just PM'd you. Thanks man.
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                RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

                  Hey boss, just PM'd you. Thanks man.
                  Got it. thanks man. I will make bank with those keywords. you da man!
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                  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Got it. thanks man. I will make bank with those keywords. you da man!

                    Great . Thought you were my idol!
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                    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

                      Two can edit Stop arguing brother!!! looool you are a champion arguer
                      Where is my trophy? I'll take it over your buddy comment.

                      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

                      Great . Thought you were my idol!
                      Good - YOu got what you deserved for having idols.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                SEO= search engine optimization, not "people optimization"
                Sorry SD - pure crap. SEO is about people traffic. Why do your customers want to rank? - to be optimized for search engines or to get customers? Search engine is not something separate from IM as you are trying to sell. Its a traffic generation technique to market to people. IM SEOers often get so wrapped up in the first page ranking stuff they can't see the forest for the trees. SEO IS about getting customers. Its optimizing your site to get PEOPLE using the search engines to visit and become customers. The business customer does not care a fig newton about being number one. Its about the sales that brings in.

                In Nest's scenario go ahead and rank number one with content issues that make people reverse. You can argue till the cows come home that ROI is not your business as a SEO. You will still get fired when the customer has no sales increase and Nest at number two will be retained because the SEO is paying for the customer.


                So to say "great content is important to SEO" is not true (yet)
                For you perhaps but no it IS true for many SEOs. You are thinking like a pure black hatter (not saying you are). Try contacting a site owner and asking him link to your site with no content. Try submitting to a local resource page, directory, or links page that is moderated with no content.

                I barely ever talk white hat here because no one wants to hear about it cause it takes work but heres a tip

                Try scrapebox for links.php, resources.html link.html in niches. You will be shocked how many there are out there and most of the good ones with PR are moderated. Try asking the webmaster to link to a craptacular site. Dream on. What real guest blogging webmaster wants to link to your crappy content?

                You know whats behind all this link versus content stuff as well? The pure garbage belief that no one links to sites anymore. I used to believe that too until I said hey why don't I go and look at a serp and see. Ooops!

                Using a bunch of tools you can find exactly who would link to you (despite people claiming crap about no one linking to such and such sites when you look at the serps you can see who does) but it will not matter for crap unless you have a site a webmaster would look at and approve

                Having just a few links like that that are organic can balance of a link profile nicely.

                Writing is on the wall. Even if you rely on a network you jeopardize both yourself and your client (so it is NOT just about protection of resources) by getting them to rank with crappy content. IF SEO is all about getting to the top and not staying there then fine but you and I both know business clients are pot paying you to get customers for two weeks.
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  I barely ever talk white hat here because no one wants to hear about it cause it takes work but heres a tip

                  Try scrapebox for links.php, resources.html link.html in niches. You will be shocked how many there are out there and most of the good ones with PR are moderated. Try asking the webmaster to link to a craptacular site. Dream on. What real guest blogging webmaster wants to link to your crappy content?
                  True a lot of folks don't care about the content, but there's still a few that aren't just out to spam the net.

                  Related link: Easy way to build links

                  I think/hope most folks know that a page can be ranked with zero content but in the end traffic needs to find what they're looking for whether it's legit content/service/product. It looks like most folks here in this thread are agreeing on that, just doing it with different words.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      The question is: Is good content enough?
      The best post on this is slin's

      Originally Posted by Slin View Post


      Both are needed. Which is more important I think is where the arguments start popping up.
      For some reason whenever the issue of content comes up on this board the extreme positions are championed rather than asking when are they ever really opposed to each other?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Two can edit Stop arguing brother!!! looool you are a champion arguer
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Before you say something is important to SEO you have to say "is it a ranking factor?" "can a search engine understand this, quantify or judge this?" If not you are in IM territory buddy. Again the acronym is "search engine optimization."
      Thats total nonsense missy ( to match your buddy ). Yeah its search engine optimization. So what is a search engine if its not where PEOPLE search for sites on the internet?

      Tell me why you want to rank number one on a search engine? Because PEOPLE have a habit of clicking on the first link. If the HUMAN behavior changed and most people clicked the fourth result guess where every SEO would want to have his site optimized for? You got it - NUMBER FOUR

      WHy do we do keyword research to determine how many searches are put up for a term? To indicate how much PEOPLE traffic you will get. SO missy. SEO is ALL ABOUT PEOPLE TRAFFIC

      If you choose to select a form of SEO that contradicts PEOPLE TRAFFIC you are a clutzy SEO. You are DEFYING the whole reason to do SEO to begin with.

      No I do not have to say if something is not a ranking factor it is not SEO. All I have to do is keep my eye on the ball and say "Will this bring my customer the kind of traffic that they hired me to bring when they chose SEO". You are acting as if SEO technique and metrics is the only thing that is part of SEO and trying to exclude the whole reason for SEO to begin with. You can't exclude the end goal of an activity from the activity as its something entirely different.

      The Optimization in SEO is to Optimize traffic clicking a link to a site. If a SEO advocates a technique that immediately makes the traffic reverse itself it destroys the whole reason for SEO. So a SEO pushing the idea that you can rank a page with crappy content that will make people runaway from the site as soon as they click it is defying the whole purpose of SEO.

      Sorry missy but thats not how SEO works. Thats how it doesn't work. In that scenario Nest at number 2 is better optimized because his number two is where all the traffic is going. Thats optimization because he is getting the optimal amount of traffic from his SEO and you are not.
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    • Profile picture of the author 9ball
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Two can edit Stop arguing brother!!! looool you are a champion arguer
      agree

      The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    SEO is not that broad. SEO is just one technique in an IMer's arsenal.
    IM is much bigger than SEO, to do SEO for a client I concede that you should have a good understanding of IM. But if your client says "hey I want to rank for 'purple cowboy spurs'" then you can still make that happen with SEO right? Is it a good business decision? Probably not. But SEO is about ranking. It's about search engines. To try to make that term encompass all the other aspects of IM is like trying to say mixing cake batter= making a wedding cake. Is it a part of the process? Most times. But is that the same thing? No. Because then you would just have a bowl of batter at your reception.

    SEO is just one part of what I do for my clients. You are misusing the word
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      SEO is not that broad. SEO is just one technique in an IMer's arsenal.
      IM is much bigger than SEO, to do SEO for a client I concede that you should have a good understanding of IM. But if your client says "hey I want to rank for 'purple cowboy spurs'" then you can still make that happen with SEO right?
      See? its you WF WSO backlinkers not SEO types that have ruined my field (at least in this small space you think is the whole SEO world). In the real world of SEO its the SEOs job to pick out keywords doing keyword and competitive research for their customers to get the traffic they want or could pay for. You have it so backways now that you think you can say that SEO is not that but just what you limit it to. No sorry the keyword selection is a HUGE part of SEO because of the traffic issue.

      Is it a good business decision? Probably not. But SEO is about ranking.
      You can say it ten more times it will still be crap. SEO is about traffic not ranking. IF it were just about ranking then you could go ahead and rank for any long tail and tell your customer "see you are ranked". This aint no WSO Mehico.


      To try to make that term encompass all the other aspects of IM is like trying to say mixing cake batter= making a wedding cake.
      What do you of all people know about wedding cake? I thought that was behind you? lol

      Is it a part of the process? Most times. But is that the same thing? No. Because then you would just have a bowl of batter at your reception.
      You usually do. Its on the brides and bridesmaids' face but they call it makeup which as you know I call "lying with paint"

      SEO is just one part of what I do for my clients. You are misusing the word
      Send me to the corner then newb. You make no definitions stick around here. Yes I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to pick a fight with the calm, soft spoken, never twouble no one MA.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        See? its you WF WSO backlinkers not SEO types that have ruined my field (at least in this small space you think is the whole SEO world). In the real world of SEO its the SEOs job to pick out keywords doing keyword and competitive research for their customers to get the traffic they want or could pay for. You have it so backways now that you think you can say that SEO is not that but just what you limit it to. No sorry the keyword selection is a HUGE part of SEO because of the traffic issue.



        You can say it ten more times it will still be crap. SEO is about traffic not ranking. IF it were just about ranking then you could go ahead and rank for any long tail and tell your customer "see you are ranked". This aint no WSO Mehico.




        What do you of all people know about wedding cake? I thought that was behind you? lol



        You usually do. Its on the brides and bridesmaids' face but they call it makeup which as you know I call "lying with paint"



        Send me to the corner then newb. You make no definitions stick around here. Yes I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to pick a fight with the calm, soft spoken, never twouble no one MA.
        First... I have never sold on anywhere on WF. No WSOs, no sig link, nothing. I don't have to. And if I started this little friendly discussion it was to prove a point....and not about SEO (though I'm right, look up SEO in any dictionary) but about you arguing with everyone on here lately. You have been grouchy for a month. Look at your post up there, got awful personal awful fast.

        Seems lately your buddies can't post that the grass is green because you'll come back with "actually that's not green, it's clearly a composite of blue and yellow" Stop fighting! We all know you are the quan. I think you are awesome so stop harassing the natives, have a glass of wine, count your big bucks, hit the beach, have fun. Everybody here that counts is on your side, don't shut us down. Just my 2 cents as your friend, because I consider that we are...

        I know I know... here it comes... I'm a newb, I'm broke, I'm clueless hehehe If you and the wife are ever down Mehico way I make killer margaritas. Mi casa es su casa. Take care of yourself amigo.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

          Look at your post up there, got awful personal awful fast.
          LOl Where Dollz? Remember when I emailed you after you said some things and you said you were just messing with me for a joke and that I should know I was one of your Boyz. Same thing. Public apologies if you thought the whole wedding thing was personal etc. I would have thought the "lying with paint" thing which you might have forgot was from another place we were joking around would have cued you.

          I know you have never sold a WSO and the whole backlinker things was like :p (I'll make sure to use smilies in the future).

          GG, You, Nest and some others I count as "boyz" as you said. Got no problem apologizing to you in public because none of that was ever meant to be personal no more than I thought you calling me "Buddy" was a real put down "missy".

          Now if I said that to Marc or someone who sells WSOs then yeah. lol of course would have meant it.

          frankly I thought the entire time you were pulling my leg as I indicated here

          Yes I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to pick a fight with the calm, soft spoken, never twouble no one MA.
          So I was just pulling it back. I mean come on You know I know you are really no newb. . I would never fake it.
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Funny that Mike F mentions the weakest niches like Amazon sites that do rank just based on content.

            In the last couple of weeks I setup 13 Amazon sites and only for one of them the link building has been done and that one is getting 600 unique visitors/day now and made almost $250 this month. The sites with no back links yet are stuck at 10 visitors per day max. and made a combined $10,- in the last weeks.

            So yeah you can rank only based on content but only for insane long longtails that don't bring in any traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author solemanali
    after penguin I have tried many services but all of them were a scam...so I agree with you and I think we should focus on quality content rather then running after links...
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by solemanali View Post

      after penguin I have tried many services but all of them were a scam...so I agree with you and I think we should focus on quality content rather then running after links...
      Not sure what services you bought but if you have a penalty then some link building or link removal service won't fix that.
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  • Profile picture of the author shman
    Mike Anthony - I completely agree with you. I'm still running tests to confirm new strategy for Penguin 2.0 and it takes time. If somebody tells you that he have remedy just after update, don't believe in it. It takes weeks to make reliable SEO tests and redesign strategies that works.
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    Motivatoo - Online Coaching

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  • Profile picture of the author Lanx
    i purposedly ignored this and last week's (all seo talk related). instead i just focused on my own testing, basically finding out what is good but rather what is toxic. Also finding out why the heck all my old properties are resurfing (best guess is all the other crap is buried and my good crap is showing).

    How many crappy "the penguin 2.0 secret sauce" WSO's were launched? lol
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  • Profile picture of the author himanuzo
    Whatever any update, both content and backlink factors are still needed to influence SERP (search engine ranking position) at Google. I believe that SEO is never dead.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    OH the WSOs are starting to creep in. Some old Snuke/GSA services just re-vamped their old sales threads. ew I feel sick.
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