Keyword selection for AdWords - I'm confused!

by MrYossu

Posted: 18 years ago 23 replies

Hello,

I'm an AdWords newbie, trying to find my way around it, and have three questions...

I have used Wordtracker and Google's tools to build a list of over 100 phrase between 2 and 8 words. I could easily go on and find more, but I'm getting overwhelmed already!

My first question is, how do I decide which of these are worth targeting in AdWords?

I know Google's tools will tell me the level of competition and number of searches for each of them, but finding ones with low competition and high searches is very hard. Please explain how I decide which to try.

Second question is how to group these phrases. Do I put every single one in it's own ad group - very time consuming, but would give a highly accurate idea of which are worthwhile. I guess I should group them, but how do I decide how to do this?

Third question is about quoted and bracketed phrases - which do I use? Let's say I want to bid on caring for a baby ferret (I just made that up on the spot, so no ferret-related comments please). Do I use the phrase as is, do I put quotes around it, or do I put square brackets around it? Maybe I do more than one? Please explain the best approach.

Sorry for asking so many questions in one go, but I'm confused. I'm sure this will all become clear as I go along, but I'm trying to make a good start, not waste loads of time and money.

Thanks in advance,
Alan

#adwords #confused #keyword #selection

Internet Income 18 years ago

You can do all 3 key phrase types, normal, bracketed (" ") and squarted ( [ ] ) the latter will result in lesser results but they will be more targetted.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[70698].message }}
PPCBully 18 years ago

Which keywords to bid on:
1. Trial and Error (go for the long tail)
2. Use Keyword Research / Ad Spy tools

How to group - As tight as you can...yes... hard work

Third question - use all options (bid differently)

You didn't ask BUT, Be sure you monitor the keywords performance and remove the non profitable ones.

Cheers, Emil
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[70720].message }}
- MrYossu 18 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by PPCBully
  
  2. Use Keyword Research / Ad Spy tools
  
  Any specific recommendations? Preferably free ones as I can't afford much until I generate some sales.
  
  Originally Posted by PPCBully
  
  How to group - As tight as you can...yes... hard work
  
  Oh well, no pain no gain eh?
  
  Originally Posted by PPCBully
  
  You didn't ask BUT, Be sure you monitor the keywords performance and remove the non profitable ones.
  
  Will do! I have a couple of adverts running right now, and am keeping a close eye on the stats in the vague hope that I might see something other than zeroes some day!
  
  Thanks for the reply,
  Alan
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
  Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
  Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[73427].message }}

websitemoneynow

18 years ago

make sure your keywords are competitive , they mite cost you more but youll get a great return , when your bidding keep upping your price slightly to see where it positions you in the rankings for those keywords . Also try buying mispelled keywords as those are pretty powerful and cheap

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[70956].message }}

johnmiley

18 years ago

Starting out, I'd recommend just using "quotes" and [brackets] around your keywords. I'd skip the broad matched keywords (i.e. no quotes or brackets).

If you have words you don't want to have on your list, use "negative" keywords, which are keywords with a - in front of them. In many cases, words like "free" should get a - in front of them, if you don't want tire-kickers clicking for free tips on xyz...

Grouping is simple enough: just think of it like this--with an example for tomato gardening niche.
Group A: tomato seed related keywords
Group B: tomato pruning related keywords
Group C: tomato soil preparation related keywords
etc..

This way, you get targeted keywords by the kind of interest they encompass. Limit the number of words per group to 8-10.

Now write one ad per keyword group.
Group A's ad will be something about tomato seeds and your selection of heirloom tomato seeds, etc.
Group B will have an ad about pruning supplies or tips, etc.

Each of these ads will point to a specific landing page on your site.

Your landing pages on your website will be designed to take Group A to a page about tomato seeds, Group B goes to a page with tomato pruning tips and supplies, and so on...

You get the idea.

Ultimately, you should split test each ad, testing it against a variation of the same ad, using the ad variation feature in Google--in fact, I'd recommend that ASAP, because you can leverage your performing ads and ditch the bad ones.

Also, a good guide or tutorial on the subject is recommended. Going it alone is a dicey (and potentially expensive) journey.

Hope this helps!

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[71517].message }}

yaji 18 years ago

I also wanted to remind you not putting all in one basket. G adsense is good so far, but when you do keyword research, don't forget another more profitable area in internet marketing. That is affiliate marketing. So do a "KEYWORD +affiliate" will return you all affiliate programs with this keyword so next time if you are sick and tired of adsense, you can make more with those affliate marketing links assciated with those keywords.
- Thanks
Signature

Thanks, Yaji

Hypnosis Weight Loss Fun Info about Hypnosis Weight Loss | Cheap Car Insurance
Cat Dandruff All about Cat Dandruff. A Must-Read for Cat Lovers
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[71743].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by johnmiley

Also, a good guide or tutorial on the subject is recommended. Going it alone is a dicey (and potentially expensive) journey.

Hope this helps!

Sure does! I was actually on the right track with everything you said (that I snipped for brevity), but was looking for confirmation that I was doing the right thing. I have Perry Marshall's book, and am reading it for the second time. I guess the reason that I was on the right track with most of what you said was from his advice.

However, I'm still not clear about which keywords to choose. As I said, I have a huge list of keywords. How do I know which ones to use?

I know, I can try them all out, but that would mean creating loads and loads of ad groups, which is probably a waste of time as many of them won't perform unless I bid far more money than is worthwhile for me.

So, how do I decide which to use? Is it just based on the number of advertisers? If the number is low, then my ad will show for a low bid, right? I know that many of these low-advertiser keywords have low search numbers, but as 'm only paying if someone clicks, that shouldn't matter, right or wrong?

Thanks again.
Alan

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[73420].message }}

redotinvest

18 years ago

You can find many keyword suggestion tool.
Google itself provide keyword suggestions. But first of all you have to decide which keyword best suites to your site

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[73429].message }}

John Hocking

18 years ago

I recommend starting out small.

Pick your top 10 to 15 phrases and create one ad group per phrase.

Use the keyword phrase in the title or body of the ad if possible. Each match in your ad with the search term will be hilighted for the visitor. This
will increase your click through rate.

Using only one keyword phrase per and will make it easier to create
a landing page that will avoid a Google slap.

If you use brackets you will only match a term exactly. If you use quotes You will match the term in any order. Without either you will match each word individually.

Don't forget about negative keywords like -free to prevent matching on terms that would not benefit you.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Find Special Offers from Warrior Plus, JVZOO, Clickbank and Others.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[73469].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I just realised that the Google traffic estimator gives a lot of the info I was looking for. I just ran my keywords through it, and the results were depressing!

I have over 100 phrases, and I put these in the estimator with both quotes and square brackets around them. The majority of them came back with "Not enough data to give estimates" which doesn't help me a great deal.

Of the ones that gave numbers, very few had CPCs that were anywhere near what I could afford to pay. My site is untested, as I haven't had any traffic yet, so I have to assume that I'm not going to get more than a 1% conversion rate (and may not even get that at first). Based on that, and a profit of around $40 per sale, I can't bid any more than 40c without losing money. Very few (like one or two) of my keywords had an estimated CPC that low.

What do I do?

Thanks

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[73808].message }}

TopNotchContent

18 years ago

Charles Heflin put out a report called ThePlan 2007 (http://www.seo2020.com/ppc/THEPLAN-2007.pdf) which may give you the insight you are looking for.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Need an article writer? Get high quality 400 word articles for only $10...check out my samples at http://GuaranteedArticles.com.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[74261].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by TopNotchContent

Charles Heflin put out a report called ThePlan 2007 (http://www.seo2020.com/ppc/THEPLAN-2007.pdf) which may give you the insight you are looking for.

OK, read that, sounds good. I have a couple of questions though, so if you are able to answer them, I would be grateful...

1) He says in step 2 of the success formula that you need to set up stats tracking to see which of your keywords are actually driving the traffic. What I don't understand is that I thought Google gave you all of this information in the AdWords pages. I can see the number of clicks I got for each keyword, so what more do I need?

2) In set 4 he suggests bidding on the broadest term to drive some traffic that you can analyse. Isn't this going to cost a fortune? I'm in the new baby market, so my broadest term would be "new baby." If I type that term (in quotes) into Google, and click the "More Sponsored Links »" link, I see that there are seven pages of AdWords adverts! How am I ever going to get any traffic from this term without spending an absolute fortune? Without the quotes there are even more!

Thanks again for the link, but I really don't see how you can work this in a competitive market without going broke in the business.

Ta ra
Alan

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[74368].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Just realised that editing my last message won't bump the thread, so you won't know I've replied...

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[76295].message }}

TopNotchContent

18 years ago

You want the tracking service to tell you the actual keywords people are coming into your site. What you see in your Adwords account are clicks for your broad term not the actual long tail. For example, if you bid on the broad term increase metabolism and the visitor searches via foods that increase metabolism fast, G would only communicate that you had a click thru for the broad term increase metabolism. Your site stats will record the actual long tail keyword.

Finally, the key behind what Charles is teaching is testing. By setting up your stats and analytics you are eliminating keywords that are ineffective and unprofitable. When you find profitable keywords then you begin your SEO campaign building content, back links, etc for those words.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Need an article writer? Get high quality 400 word articles for only $10...check out my samples at http://GuaranteedArticles.com.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[82111].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by TopNotchContent

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I had forgotten that broad terms can match a variety of things!

Do you have any comment on my second question? He suggests bidding on your broadest term and using that to find out what specific terms people are using. As I explained, I think this would bankrupt me before I got the information I needed? Any suggestions?

Thanks again,
Alan

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[85375].message }}

TopNotchContent

18 years ago

You could do a few things: 1. run your campaign for 24 hours per the report, 2. limit your daily budget to a fix dollar amount. 3. make sure your ads and landing page are relevant so you have a high quality score.

Originally Posted by MrYossu

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Need an article writer? Get high quality 400 word articles for only $10...check out my samples at http://GuaranteedArticles.com.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[85717].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by TopNotchContent

Thanks for the reply.

I'm still a bit wary of this. My broad keywords all have an estimated CPC of between $1 and $1.50, so to get enough clicks to get some statistically valid information I'm still looking at spending a few hundred dollars. There are around 180 people advertising for phrases like I need.

The example he used in the report showed about 50 phrases. Presumably, some of these were repeated, otherwise he wouldn't know if they were a one-off, or a genuine area of activity. To make any sense of 50 phrases, you have to be looking at at least 100 clicks, which is around $150 before I start.

Any ideas? Sorry if I'm missing the point, but I just can't seem to get going here.

Thanks again,
Alan

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[85830].message }}

dburk

18 years ago

Hi MrYossu,

I would recommend that you avoid using broad match as your budget is so limited. You should focus on keywords that are highly relevant to your landing page or you will end up paying a lot more per click than your competitors.

As you seem to already realize, you will need a lot of phrases and it will take a lot of work to create all those ad groups for optimizing each and every keyword.

If you don't have the time you could hire someone to do the work. If you don't have the money you can do the work yourself. Or, you could develop tools that automate the process. But again this takes time and/or money.

If you avoid spending the time or money to do it right it will cost you in higher CPC. I wouldn't recommend this approach as it doesn't allow you to learn how much profit you could make with a properly organized campaign.

You have to be willing to break a few eggs to make an omelet. It seems to me that the real issue is lack of time or money. You can get there with a small amount of money and a lot of time, or a small amount of time and more money.

If you are serious about this venture you should not balk at the time it will take. If you can afford it, you should hire a professional PPC manager to set up your campaign. This can give you a head start on learning how to do it yourself.

If you don't really want to work that hard at it, then you should outsource it. That would be the easy way but not free.

An actively managed campaign will perform significantly better than a set-and-forget campaign. So in the end you will need to become a full time campaign manager or hire one. In my opinion it would be wise to decide early on where you want to end up. Do you want to be a campaign manager or do you want to hire one? Once you can answer that question then you will know what your next move should be.

There is a significant learning curve when it comes to PPC management. In the end you will learn that the harder you work at it the greater your success. If you can't see yourself managing campaigns on a full time basis then you should definitely hire or outsource a campaign manager. A good PPC manager will save you more than their service costs.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

* Get Results - Outsource Your PPC Management |
* Don Burk Advertising & Marketing - www.donburk.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[86372].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

It seems to me that the real issue is lack of time or money. You can get there with a small amount of money and a lot of time, or a small amount of time and more money.

Hi Don,

You are right in everything you say. I am willing to invest both time and money in this.

However, I think there is another issue that you didn't mention above. I have time to invest in this, and am willing to risk investing some money as I realise that business requires investment. However, I also have the very serious issue of not knowing what I'm doing. I have read up about AdWords, and know the theory (I think). My problem is putting it into practice. It doesn't seem to work the way the books say

I have spent quite a bit of time on this, and still feel like the proverbial blind man in the dark room looking for the black cat that isn't there!

Anyway, I sent you a PM, so I'll wait to hear from you.

Thanks
Alan

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[87282].message }}

masterlesssamurai

18 years ago

If you're on a shoestring budget, running broad match keywords may not be the way to go. But....you can be missing out depending upon your market. One of the quickest ways to find long tail keywords that the keyword tools dont actually show you IS TO RUN BROAD MATCH, but track it like a hawk.

You can use a tool like Tracking202.com (FREE)...run your campaign and see which keywords on the broad match are converting for you. Then put those in their own ad group, write a targeted ad, and run them on exact match.

Also, this is a good way to build up a list of less obvious negative keywords for the broad matches that you want to run long term.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[87289].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by masterlesssamurai

OK, so suppose I track it carefully. I'm still going to need a reasonable number of clicks to be able to get any meaningful data. I'm just bothered that I'm going to spend a fortune before I get anything useful.

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I still can't seem to get this clear. How do I do this without running up a huge bill?

Originally Posted by masterlesssamurai

You can use a tool like Tracking202.com (FREE)...run your campaign and see which keywords on the broad match are converting for you. Then put those in their own ad group, write a targeted ad, and run them on exact match.

I downloaded that, but had problems installing it. Shame as it looks good, but the install doesn't seem to work.

Originally Posted by masterlesssamurai

Also, this is a good way to build up a list of less obvious negative keywords for the broad matches that you want to run long term.

Good point, although this furthers my suspicion that I will spend a large amount of money on useless clicks before I get anywhere.

Any further comments? Thanks very much.
Alan

Thanks

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[88224].message }}

homenotion

18 years ago

Originally Posted by MrYossu

Some of the problem could be with your landing page, it needs to completely relevant to the key phrases you are using. I'd also suggest making sure you use as many synonyms as possible to the key phrase as well, this is referred to as LSI or latent semantic indexing, Google looks for that.

Hope that helps,
Ms. Liz

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[74318].message }}

MrYossu

18 years ago

Originally Posted by homenotion

Hmm, not sure it does, but that could be my lack of understanding.

As far as I know, my landing page isn't really the issue as no-one has yet clicked through to it. My problem is finding keywords that I can afford to bid on.

I have a huge list of relevant keyphrases, including variations of all sorts. The problem is working out what to use. They are all either too expensive, or not enough data for me to know if it's worth trying them.

Thanks for the reply. Please explain if I missed your point.

Thanks

Signature

Turbocharge your backlinks with RSS Autopilot!
Special Warrior Offer - Massive discount off the regular fee, and a 50% bigger site allocation!
Try it now -> www.rssautopilot.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[74367].message }}

Keyword selection for AdWords - I'm confused!

Trending Topics

Clients Ghosting: Advice please!

Best SEO strategy for wedding venue websites

The Winter Olympics....

Browser-based CPL games -- has anyone come across these?

Help! My domain has been hijacked by a spammer.