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13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

Hey - so I'm here at work talking to one of the programmers. And he asked me if I wanted to do SEO in the LONG HAUL. I said absolutely, but moreso Internet Marketing altogether. He was in disbelief and told me that everything will be automated one day.

I know that there are automated programs, and of course there's algorithms. But do you guys think there will be that point where programmers will create a program that we are no longer needed at all?

depends on what is being automated, automated content will always get slapped eventually, same with automated links.

[off-topic- as a programmer, the reason i got into programming was i wanted to get a much things automated. lol]

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tech84

depends on what is being automated, automated content will always get slapped eventually, same with automated links.

[off-topic- as a programmer, the reason i got into programming was i wanted to get a much things automated. lol]

He didn't get into too much depth but basically to a point where "we" no longer need to do anything at all period.

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tech84 13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

He didn't get into too much depth but basically to a point where "we" no longer need to do anything at all period.

one thing i would love to see is a plugin that would automatically link words (keywords) or long tail keywords/phrase to related posts, and you can set the frequency to being a specific keyword automatically linking to the related post or to a long tail keyword that would auto link to the target page.

and you can set a list where anytime this keyword (or longtail keyword/phrase) would be detected in a post(new or old, can be set) it would automatically link to an internal page about that keyword/phrase (that you have also set initially)

that's a $100 plugin right there. lol
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tanyaa

13 years ago

Automation makes the seo job easy but as the search engines regularly change their strategy to get the resourceful website i will prefer manually doing the job than automation.

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tanyaa

Automation makes the seo job easy but as the search engines regularly change their strategy to get the resourceful website i will prefer manually doing the job than automation.

I get that - but the question is moreso about the FUTURE. Will it REACH that point where we really don't have to do anything. Will it REACH that point where WE (us online marketing people), no longer have jobs / a place for SEO.

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tech84

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

I get that - but the question is moreso about the FUTURE. Will it REACH that point where we really don't have to do anything. Will it REACH that point where WE (us online marketing people), no longer have jobs / a place for SEO.

who knows, in what time frame? in 50 or 1000 years? we can't really say.

AI would be your best bet, but the the current level of AI we have right now, we are still waaaay far off from having everything automated. Even if it is just about website maintenance and SEO.

it will be about having the correct algorithm (even Google with all their resources are still at it, still making mistakes and still working at it)

getting the correct (perfect?) algorithm for a great AI, is still actually question of if, not when.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

I know that there are automated programs, and of course there's algorithms. But do you guys think there will be that point where programmers will create a program that we are no longer needed at all?

Your programmer can fantasize but it won't be in his lifetime so it won't matter.

Originally Posted by GGpaul

Will it REACH that point where WE (us online marketing people), no longer have jobs / a place for SEO.

Nope. Will an automated program get you featured on a major blog? because then spam would rule the world and destroy every blog.

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Your programmer can fantasize but it won't be in his lifetime so it won't matter.

Nope. Will an automated program get you featured on a major blog? because then spam would rule the world and destroy every blog.

I love what programmers do, but sometimes I just feel like a lot of them think they're the shit and that they'll take over everything at one point

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tech84 13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

I love what programmers do, but sometimes I just feel like a lot of them think they're the shit and that they'll take over everything at one point

from what I have learned so far in this business, if you want to get hired/payed for a service, you have to ACT like you're the SH*T, that you know every SH*T. And that's where most problems from this industry come from.
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Tradeout

13 years ago

I personally can't see it.

The third parties (google, twitter, squidoo.... etc etc) constantly shift balance to ensure that large scale automation does not work. It's... err... business.

Sure, they allow 'automation' in the early stages whilst it benefits them, but as soon as they have a good market share they close the doors to ensue 'quality' and that money is where they want. Which is in their pockets!

Automation tools will still grow though IMO. As a programmer myself, I am always looking to automate for efficiency.

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Automation for efficiency is cool with me. But automation to COMPLETELY take over..... I doubt it.

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kmanbloquet

13 years ago

There have been tremendous advancements in technology. I think one day in the near future, it will be possible to automate say an article, and have it be of good quality. Bots and programs are getting more sophisticated. It will be interesting to see what the future will bring.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

I've worked 9-5 offline jobs that deal with machine programming ($300K - $1 million machines), very advanced software at the time, I'm also in the same niche so I keep an eye on what's going on.

Software almost always has a set of control points that the end user tries to stay between. There's not really any AI, that stuff is from the movies. Even the Google cars that can drive on their own are hooked up to probably hundreds of sensors on the car to keep that car inside it's control points. All Google did was break down how a car is driven into small chunks of info. per sensor on the car, add all those sensors to a program & you have a car that can drive on it's own (for the most part), the program is constantly checking sensor data to make sure the car stays inside the control points instead of running over the neighbors dog.

SEO isn't going to be automated, link blast, spun text, maybe, but not the complete SEO package.

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I've worked 9-5 offline jobs that deal with machine programming ($300K - $1 million machines), very advanced software at the time, I'm also in the same niche so I keep an eye on what's going on.

Software almost always has a set of control points that the end user tries to stay between. There's not really any AI, that stuff is from the movies. Even the Google cars that can drive on their own are hooked up to probably hundreds of sensors on the car to keep that car inside it's control points. All Google did was break down how a car is driven into small chunks of info. per sensor on the car, add all those sensors to a program & you have a car that can drive on it's own (for the most part), the program is constantly checking sensor data to make sure the car stays inside the control points instead of running over the neighbors dog.

SEO isn't going to be automated, link blast, spun text, maybe, but not the
complete SEO package.

Cool deal. I've come a long way and I wouldn't want a programmer to tell me to do something else or get scared lol. Nevertheless, I always want to do more than just SEO.

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Tradeout

13 years ago

Yukon makes an interesting point.

An artificially intelligent system that deduced what was required and then put those requirements into action would be great.

But, when human intelligence struggles to decipher the requirements/rules.....

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seoace

13 years ago

A tool will only be efficient according to the user. Doing SEO successfully with automation all depends on how it is being used. Most people use it as the "1-click" mass submit tool that's why they fail at it.

Here's a scenario:
Do you think if you gave a beginner the most expensive golf clubs and he will be able to play golf properly?

What happens if you gave Tiger Woods a set of normal golf clubs? I doubt he would play like a beginner with the golf club he used.

Saying the use of automated link building tool is crap is like saying please don't drive a car because you might kill someone on the road side.

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Tradeout

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seoace

A tool will only be efficient according to the user. Doing SEO successfully with automation all depends on how it is being used. Most people use it as the "1-click" mass submit tool that's why they fail at it.

Here's a scenario:
Do you think if you gave a beginner the most expensive golf clubs and he will be able to play golf properly?

What happens if you gave Tiger Woods a set of normal golf clubs? I doubt he would play like a beginner with the golf club he used.

Saying the use of automated link building tool is crap is like saying please don't drive a car because you might kill someone on the road side.

Isn't the point of the OP about automated tools that don't require user intervention, so can't be used incorrectly?

To add a fork to this debate, what (current) automated tools are successful in building ranking and how can they be improved?

Take current advice on one of the main aspects of SEO that interests most... Link building.

Current advice is what?
Tiered relevant links.
Quality guest blogging.
....

Quality guest blogging needs a lot of manual work, and is basically about building relationships and writing quality content. Not easy to automate.

Tiered link building on the other hand is easier to automate.
The important aspect on building tiers isn't so much content, but where to place the links. So we look at the tools available and bash out links, some people at a blistering rate. Problem is, when everybody is doing the same, footprints become easier to track...

So again, back to the question, what automated tools work and how can they be improved?

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seoace

13 years ago

The popular link building tools like SenukeXCR, Scrapebox, GSA SER, Sick Marketing and Ultimate Demon can successfully rank any website. As I stated in my previous comment, it all just depends on how you use them. What domains you build backlinks to, the amount of backlinks, how you spin the content (or if you decide to go all out manual content writing), anchor texts used in each backlink, the format of the content include the title and the link velocity of the backlinks that you will be building.

All this comes into play when using automated SEO tools but a lot of people don't plan out their SEO strategy when using them. All they do is just point, click and more clicking.

For guest blogging, there's a way to automate them

However, the only thing I can't automate yet is the producing of quality content which I still do manually today.

- Stanley

Originally Posted by Tradeout

Isn't the point of the OP about automated tools that don't require user intervention, so can't be used incorrectly?

To add a fork to this debate, what (current) automated tools are successful in building ranking and how can they be improved?

Take current advice on one of the main aspects of SEO that interests most... Link building.

Current advice is what?
Tiered relevant links.
Quality guest blogging.
....

Quality guest blogging needs a lot of manual work, and is basically about building relationships and writing quality content. Not easy to automate.

Tiered link building on the other hand is easier to automate.
The important aspect on building tiers isn't so much content, but where to place the links. So we look at the tools available and bash out links, some people at a blistering rate. Problem is, when everybody is doing the same, footprints become easier to track...

So again, back to the question, what automated tools work and how can they be improved?

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jinx1221

13 years ago

Everybody is leaving out 2 basic aspects of this whole topic: lasting websites vs. churn and burn.

The big boys, the ones Google are really trying to weed out, are the custom automated sites that are built automatically, probably by the thousands per day, with auto computer generated markup "content". The idea is that you generate thousands of sites a day on several different servers hoping that some of them stick, even for just a day, or even an hour. Throw in a few more clever tricks (cloaking, scraping, etc), multiply this by 1000 + blasts with Xrumer/GSA/SeNuke/Scrapebox (or more likely different underground tactics we dont even know about - think SAPE only more so) and you are making some decent cash, all automated, all hands free.

Long story short, it's already happening:

Fighting Spam ? Inside Search ? Google

Do you think any of these examples are done manually?

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Tradeout

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jinx1221

Everybody is leaving out 2 basic aspects of this whole topic: lasting websites vs. churn and burn.

The big boys, the ones Google are really trying to weed out, are the custom automated sites that are built automatically, probably by the thousands per day, with auto computer generated markup "content". The idea is that you generate thousands of sites a day on several different servers hoping that some of them stick, even for just a day, or even an hour. Throw in a few more clever tricks (cloaking, scraping, etc), multiply this by 1000 + blasts with Xrumer/GSA/SeNuke/Scrapebox (or more likely different underground tactics we dont even know about - think SAPE only more so) and you are making some decent cash, all automated, all hands free.

Long story short, it's already happening:

Fighting Spam ? Inside Search ? Google

Do you think any of these examples are done manually?

I'm not clear on the point you are making.

Are you saying automated tools won't continue to work?

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jinx1221

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tradeout

I'm not clear on the point you are making.

Are you saying automated tools won't continue to work?

Actually the opposite. Everybody is so paranoid that they are doing this big massive black hat underground thing by using tools that they are missing the big picture. Automated tools are small time compared to what is really going on behind the scenes, and what Google is really trying to eliminate.

Yes, be careful, don't be stupid and blindly blast away or you will get caught in the net that is being cast.. its just that the net that is meant to catch the sharks is going to naturally catch some tuna too. If you are smart and do things right, automated tools can work wonders! Just use them to save yourself time, doing what you can or would normally do manually.

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Tradeout

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jinx1221

Actually the opposite. Everybody is so paranoid that they are doing this big massive black hat underground thing by using tools that they are missing the big picture. Automated tools are small time compared to what is really going on behind the scenes, and what Google is really trying to eliminate.

Yes, be careful, don't be stupid and blindly blast away or you will get caught in the net that is being cast.. its just that the net that is meant to catch the sharks is going to naturally catch some tuna too. If you are smart and do things right, automated tools can work wonders! Just use them to save yourself time, doing what you can or would normally do manually.

I see what you are saying now. Totally agree.

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vk3

13 years ago

Personally, I think SEO automation is critical when it comes to "bits and pieces of the puzzle" and saving time (especially when the automation can be done almost as naturally as a human would do it... repetitive tasks, etc) - however, with that being said, when it comes to my own projects, I feel like most effective link building strategies need higher level thinking and planning.

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jinx1221

13 years ago

Originally Posted by vk3

Personally, I think SEO automation is critical when it comes to "bits and pieces of the puzzle" and saving time (especially when the automation can be done almost as naturally as a human would do it... repetitive tasks, etc) - however, with that being said, when it comes to my own projects, I feel like most effective link building strategies need higher level thinking and planning.

Exactly

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andishm

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

But do you guys think there will be that point where programmers will create a program that we are no longer needed at all?

If you want to say that SEO softwares or programmes are not required just because possibly you think link building is dead then dear senior, SEO and link building both are required and shall work until search engines will be there....

Algoz are just refine them and we just need to refresh our processes etc accordingly...

Have my best respect.

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PotPieGirl

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GGpaul

Hey - so I'm here at work talking to one of the programmers. And he asked me if I wanted to do SEO in the LONG HAUL. I said absolutely, but moreso Internet Marketing altogether. He was in disbelief and told me that everything will be automated one day.

I know that there are automated programs, and of course there's algorithms. But do you guys think there will be that point where programmers will create a program that we are no longer needed at all?

No way. Anything automated (ie, a computer program) leaves a footprint which OTHER computer programs (ie, Google) can pick up. There will always be at least one human behind the automated part. Otherwise, what - the business automation is one step ahead of the Google automation WITHOUT a human involved? Not thinking so.

Google only reacts to what we do. Automating that process puts that company BEHIND Google and chasing after it. If you get a human involved in the automation, then at least Google is left chasing IT...and yes, that is also "churn and burn" until Google catches on and dings that idea.

So options are what? Uh, get a computer to write amazing, unique and engaging content? Really? To me, it is very short-sighted to think a computer could take over the job of a GOOD seo. Would they hire a computer to do their offline marketing? I think not.

Just my 2.5 cents...

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

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jinx1221

13 years ago

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PotPieGirl

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jinx1221

And what 'bright idea' do you think can be brought down until they totally lose their whole userbase? Spam? Spintax? Think again :p

Btw.. do u have Skype? Holy cow, u r hot

You're funny. I like you... lol!!

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Tradeout

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PotPieGirl

...
Would they hire a computer to do their offline marketing? I think not.

Just my 2.5 cents...

Jennifer
~PotPieGirl

I think a company would use a computer to automate their offline marketing given half a chance.

Take 'junk mail'.
Does a person carefully hand write a personal letter, carefully attach a postage stamp, ensure said letter is addressed to the correct recipient....

No, a computer and machine handle all that.

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PotPieGirl

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tradeout

I think a company would use a computer to automate there offline marketing given half a chance.

Take 'junk mail'.
Does a person carefully hand write a personal letter, carefully attach a postage stamp, ensure said letter is addressed to the correct recipient....

No, a computer and machine handle all that.

Fair enough, but I will say this.. the good ones do NOT do that. Yes, anyone *could* do that - and many do - but nothing replaces good ol' human copywriting. And at the end of the day, some ONE has to think about who they are marketing to.

Not trying to start an argument, but there's always a human at the base of it all.

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Tradeout

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PotPieGirl

Fair enough, but I will say this.. the good ones do NOT do that. Yes, anyone *could* do that - and many do - but nothing replaces good ol' human copywriting. And at the end of the day, some ONE has to think about who they are marketing to.

Not trying to start an argument, but there's always a human at the base of it all.

Not an argument.
It's good to hear how everybody else feels about automated tools. I'm glad Paul started the thread.

It's when developer and marketers combine, that good products are forged.

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Great posts. Thanks guys.

I love SEO, but as always - I always want to have multiple streams of income. From stocks, property, etc. Maybe start a couple small restaurants in the Philippines and hire my cousins or something haha. I want to make sure I'm prepped up for the future. Nevertheless, I'll take full advantage of what I have going on now. Thanks again guys for the posts. Definitely opened up my eyes.

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Bluebell89

13 years ago

I think using SEO hosting services too helps a lot in terms of taking care of the SEO needs of your websites that have almost the similar content. Say you are having Wordpress and Blogger and those contents are similar, using services like Dollar SEO hosting helps a lot to ensure your website ranks higher on Google. Plus it is cheap too

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GGpaul

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bluebell89

I think using SEO hosting services too helps a lot in terms of taking care of the SEO needs of your websites that have almost the similar content. Say you are having Wordpress and Blogger and those contents are similar, using services like Dollar SEO hosting helps a lot to ensure your website ranks higher on Google. Plus it is cheap too

This absolutely has NOTHING to do with my thread. I'm talking about PURE ON AUTOMATED. Not SENUKE, and DEFINITELY not HOSTING services.

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