9 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
9 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Trying to understand backlinks to PDFs

by swankerc
8 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Hello,
I have a client who has had a ton of health related pdfs on the web for a few years now. Google Webmaster Tools reveals that over 150 different domains are backlinking to my client's website. When I investigate these different backlinking domains they appear to be nothing more than "pdf farms" (I don't know what else to call them). They don't appear to be real quality websites.

I'm trying to wrap my head around what's going on here and have two main questions:

1) Why do these sites even exist? They appear to just comb the web for pdfs and post a long blog that is nothing more than a list of pdfs on some related topic. What do these sites gain by posting long lists of pdfs?

2) How can I determine if these backlinks are helping or hurting my client's site? I suspect they may be hurting because I'm having a hard time climbing higher than the 9th spot for a search term that should be easy to rank in the top 5. The sites ranking in the top 5 appear to be low quality.

Thanks so much for any advice.

Best,
RC
#backlinking #backlinks #pdfs #understand
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by swankerc View Post

    Hello,
    I have a client who has had a ton of health related pdfs on the web for a few years now. Google Webmaster Tools reveals that over 150 different domains are backlinking to my client's website. When I investigate these different backlinking domains they appear to be nothing more than "pdf farms" (I don't know what else to call them). They don't appear to be real quality websites.

    I'm trying to wrap my head around what's going on here and have two main questions:

    1) Why do these sites even exist? They appear to just comb the web for pdfs and post a long blog that is nothing more than a list of pdfs on some related topic. What do these sites gain by posting long lists of pdfs?

    2) How can I determine if these backlinks are helping or hurting my client's site? I suspect they may be hurting because I'm having a hard time climbing higher than the 9th spot for a search term that should be easy to rank in the top 5. The sites ranking in the top 5 appear to be low quality.

    Thanks so much for any advice.

    Best,
    RC
    1) Those pdf sites exist to make money online, they're no different than article directories. They monetize their web pages just like everyone else.

    2) Do the clients pdf files actually have backlinks on the pdf sharing sites/pages? Some of those doc sharing sites have flash/javascript displaying the content on their pages. Run SEOspyglass & see what links show up (are there really links pointing at the pdf files on the client site/page?).

    Related info: Does Google Crawl PDF Documents?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8415679].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author swankerc
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      1) Those pdf sites exist to make money online, they're no different than article directories. They monetize their web pages just like everyone else.

      2) Do the clients pdf files actually have backlinks on the pdf sharing sites/pages? Some of those doc sharing sites have flash/javascript displaying the content on their pages. Run SEOspyglass & see what links show up (are there really links pointing at the pdf files on the client site/page?).

      Related info: Does Google Crawl PDF Documents?
      Thanks for the fast reply Yukon. I guess I realized they exist to made money thru AdSense or affiliate links, but I was just curious how linking to a bunch of PDFs actually helps to them to rank. Most of the backlinks that I have investigated actually do link to my client's pdf article.

      What I would like to know is if my client is being penalized for backlinks from these sites. How do I determine this and what can be done about it?

      Thanks so much!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8415706].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by swankerc View Post

        Thanks for the fast reply Yukon. I guess I realized they exist to made money thru AdSense or affiliate links, but I was just curious how linking to a bunch of PDFs actually helps to them to rank. Most of the backlinks that I have investigated actually do link to my client's pdf article.

        What I would like to know is if my client is being penalized for backlinks from these sites. How do I determine this and what can be done about it?

        Thanks so much!
        Grab a few of your clients pdf URLs & do an individual site:domain.com/some-file.pdf, If the pdf on your client site is indexed I doubt there's a problem.

        Assumes your client isn't blocking Google from caching/indexing their pdf files.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8415741].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author swankerc
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Grab a few of your clients pdf URLs & do an individual site:domain.com/some-file.pdf, If the pdf on your client site is indexed I doubt there's a problem.

          Assumes your client isn't blocking Google from caching/indexing their pdf files.
          The PDFs are indexed by Google, and I'm actually slowly 301 directing them to actual product pages, but, respectively, that seems irrelevant to my question. My question is are the sources of these PDF backlinks hurting my client and how do I determine that?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8415795].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by swankerc View Post

            The PDFs are indexed by Google, and I'm actually slowly 301 directing them to actual product pages, but, respectively, that seems irrelevant to my question. My question is are the sources of these PDF backlinks hurting my client and how do I determine that?
            How could it hurt?

            Those pdf sharing sites are scraping the net for pdf files, so it's most likely the same content. If you have better SEO than the pdf sharing site, then you'll rank those pdf files on the client site & the pdf sharing site/page will be below the client page in the SERPs (maybe not even first page). I seriously doubt a pdf sharing site that scrapes the net is targeting any keywords outside of free pdf, etc...

            IMO the pdf sharing site isn't really a bad neighborhood site, it's just a site not targeting anything specific & picking up longtail traffic from a bazillion automated scraped pages.

            If the pdf on the client site is indexed, there's no sign of a problem (IMO).
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8415926].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author swankerc
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              How could it hurt?

              Those pdf sharing sites are scraping the net for pdf files, so it's most likely the same content. If you have better SEO than the pdf sharing site, then you'll rank those pdf files on the client site & the pdf sharing site/page will be below the client page in the SERPs (maybe not even first page). I seriously doubt a pdf sharing site that scrapes the net is targeting any keywords outside of free pdf, etc...

              IMO the pdf sharing site isn't really a bad neighborhood site, it's just a site not targeting anything specific & picking up longtail traffic from a bazillion automated scraped pages.

              If the pdf on the client site is indexed, there's no sign of a problem (IMO).
              To my understanding, Google's new Pandora algorithms will devalue your site for "low quality" links (i.e. if Google suspects you are building backlinks on spammy sites you will be penalized). I'm simply trying to figure out how you can even determine if Google is penalizing you and if that's the case what you can do to recover from poor links to your site???

              I first started wondering this, because there's a brand new competing site that outranks my client, that has 0 backlinks to their domain, and a short low quality written article. Since, I have SEOd my site above and beyond what this competitor has done, I cannot figure out for the life of me why else it would be out-ranking my client... other than my client may be being penalized for poor backlinks.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8416016].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author paulgl
                Originally Posted by swankerc View Post

                I first started wondering this, because there's a brand new competing site that outranks my client, that has 0 backlinks to their domain, and a short low quality written article. Since, I have SEOd my site above and beyond what this competitor has done, I cannot figure out for the life of me why else it would be out-ranking my client... other than my client may be being penalized for poor backlinks.
                Therein lies the problem. You don't know, and yet you are gladly taking money
                for SEO.

                Since he's been on the net for years, with a ton of pdf files, sounds like
                he is still living in 1997.

                He would have converted it to one big book, or...
                Changed everything to an article. Splitting each one up to fit on one
                page with little scrolling for each page of the former pdf, or...
                Offered the pdf files only by invitation, or...
                Deleted the friggin things and started over, or...
                Offered both text and pdf versions, (like google says to do...) or...
                Maybe realize that a "health" related site is prone to google hate, or...
                Instead of 301, you set up a custom 404 error page, deep six the lot.

                The irony here, is one I see a lot of. People accuse sites of having
                bad links to hurt them, but those bad sites just don't seem to get
                penalized....you can't have it both ways.

                What do sites gain by posting to a pdf? Plenty. How do they rank?
                Man, both of those questions should readily be answered by anyone
                who is peddling SEO.

                What's worse, scraping links to free pdfs, or an SEO seller coming to
                the WF for help with a client? Both are scraping the web. Just
                in different ways.

                Paul
                Signature

                If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8416297].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author swankerc
                  Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

                  Therein lies the problem. You don't know, and yet you are gladly taking money
                  for SEO.

                  Since he's been on the net for years, with a ton of pdf files, sounds like
                  he is still living in 1997.

                  He would have converted it to one big book, or...
                  Changed everything to an article. Splitting each one up to fit on one
                  page with little scrolling for each page of the former pdf, or...
                  Offered the pdf files only by invitation, or...
                  Deleted the friggin things and started over, or...
                  Offered both text and pdf versions, (like google says to do...) or...
                  Maybe realize that a "health" related site is prone to google hate, or...
                  Instead of 301, you set up a custom 404 error page, deep six the lot.

                  The irony here, is one I see a lot of. People accuse sites of having
                  bad links to hurt them, but those bad sites just don't seem to get
                  penalized....you can't have it both ways.

                  What do sites gain by posting to a pdf? Plenty. How do they rank?
                  Man, both of those questions should readily be answered by anyone
                  who is peddling SEO.

                  What's worse, scraping links to free pdfs, or an SEO seller coming to
                  the WF for help with a client? Both are scraping the web. Just
                  in different ways.

                  Paul
                  Sheesh paulgl! Who said I was 'peddling' SEO services? I never shared the nature of my business arrangement with my client so I have no idea what your rant is about. I simply came here to try and learn more about SEO from more experienced people than myself because it's related to the service that I actually do sale. A good businessman would know they should always be learning so that is what I'm doing. If you do not have a 'teacher' mentality than why even waste your time responding to those asking for honest help. Brother...
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8416465].message }}

Trending Topics