[Step by Step Guide] I will show you how I do my SEO (Part 1 - Keyword Research)

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Hello Everyone!

Before I start, I need to say that “I’m not selling anything in this guide series, no sale, no click here buttons, no affiliate links, nada!” The purpose of this post is to share as much information as I can and hopefully invite other IMers to contribute in bettering the process of link building. Hopefully this can help many new comers and that we can all learn some new tricks along the way.

I’m a new member here on WF, but I have been making money online since 2006. I’m not going to bore you guys with my life story and how I spent my last 8 years online. Let’s cut to the chase and let me break down how I do my link building post Panda/Penguin/Hummingbird. They may not be the best way to do things, but it’s how I do it and I try to do things systematically. It’s pretty technical, let’s see ‘em yeah?
Most of the tools I use are free, if not, then they are somewhat must have tools.


Topics to cover

Keyword Research
Gather Articles
Spin Articles
Post Web 2.0 Properties with links (Social Network, PDF sites, Wiki Sites, Article Directories, Social Bookmarks, Web Profile, and Forums)
Ping and Index Web 2.0 Properties
Post Comments with links
Social Buzz (Facebook, Twitter, Google+, Pinterest, etc)
Post Yahoo Answer


Keyword Research

There are a lot of free/paid keyword research tools and services out there that promise to do keyword research quickly and precisely. Here, I’m going to show you how I do it RAW and the mechanic behind each step.

I always start off my keyword research with Google Keyword Planner. I use it for two obvious reasons. One is because is free! Two is because it has the largest keyword database. If your niche is “very niche,” other tools will not give you any related keywords at all. Some may claim that everyone uses Google, those keywords recommended are saturated. Well, if your niche is saturated, your high traffic keywords will be saturated, it comes as a package. If you want to avoid competition, you can choose less competitive keywords Google gives you.

Google Keyword Planner is free, so you just need an account with Google Adwords.


(20 Steps)

1. Log in to Google Adwords

2. Go to Tools >> Keyword Planner

3. Type in one or more keywords in “your product or service” (all other options are self-explanatory), then click “Get ideas”

4. You’ll see a small list of keywords, click Download and save as excel to get the full keyword list.

5. You only have to worry about 3 fields Google gives you: Keyword, Avg. monthly searches and Competition..
a) Keyword: Your related keywords based on what you had from step 3
b) Avg. monthly searches: the average number of times people search this exact keyword in a month
c) Competition: How much competitors are bidding on the keyword in Adwords from 0 to 1. “1” being a lot, and “0” being close to none.
d) ROI Index: Add a new column and name it “ROI Index.” This index is Avg. monthly searches / [10^(competition * 10)] Basically, the higher the value, the higher the ROI you will get for your keyword because it means that it has high searches and low competition.

Excel formula to calculate this index: C2/POWER(10,F2*10)
C2 is the cell with the Avg. monthly searches
F2 is the cell with the Competition


Here comes my SPECIAL RECIPE

6. Keywords Group: Categorize these keywords to 4 different groups (main keywords, secondary keywords, diversify keywords, and no competition keywords). You should market these keywords differently.
a) Main keywords: your main focus, your money keywords. These are doable keywords where you might be able to rank for and if you do, they will bring you the most traffic. One of your main keywords ranking high up in the SERP (search engine results page) will be better than ranking 100 long tail keywords with little to no traffic.
b) Secondary keywords: your 2nd tier keywords. These are keywords that are either very competitive with high traffic or possible to rank with medium traffic.
c) Diversify keywords: these are the filler keywords, since Panda and Penguin; we know that we have to diversify our keywords instead of just pushing just the high traffic keywords. We need a bunch of other random and weird keywords to point to our money site.
d) No competition keywords: these are keywords that have no competition, easy to rank for. Each keyword won’t bring in much traffic, but ranking for a lot of these will add up. And since the competition is so little, little effort can bring in a little traffic, why not right?
Of course, when we link build, we’ll also add in some percentage of backlinks using the URL and generic words such as: click here, more info, check this out, etc. We’ll get into the detail of how much to post to which type of keywords in the “Post Web 2.0 Properties” section.

Ok, now we’ll go through how to categorize Google Adwords list of keywords into these 4 groups.

7. Filter out all of the keywords that are less than 7 characters; these are usually keywords that are TOO broad and have lots of searches, they will skew the result and mess up everything. If your brand is less than 7 characters and it’s in the list, then keep it.

Excel formula to calculate string length: strlen(B1)
B1 is the cell with your keyword

8. Mean and Standard Deviation

Your keyword with “lots of searches” could be 1 million searches or 1000 searches. For example, if one of your keywords has 1000 searches while all of other keywords in your list have 10 searches, then the keyword with 1000 searches could be considered as “lots of searches”. So having lots of searches is relative to your unique list and niche.

Here, we’ll do some math to compare each keyword against each other to get the mean and standard deviation of the “Avg. monthly searches”. We’ll use these results to help categorize which keywords have lots of searches and which have little. This section could be a bit confusing for people with a little math background. But I recommend doing it this way because it is “systematic” so no guessing is needed.

Calculate the average value (mean) of the “Avg. monthly searches” column.
Excel formula to calculate mean: =AVERAGE(C2:C801)
C2 is the first cell under the column Avg. monthly searches and C801 is the last cell. This formular will get all of the values from C2 to C801 and return the average (mean).
Calculate the standard deviation of the “Avg. monthly searches” column.
Excel formula: =STDEV(C2:C801)

If you are still confuse with excel, check out a simple tutorial here How to Calculate Mean and Standard Deviation With Excel 2007 (with Calculator)

9. Label keywords as “High Searches” for all keywords with Avg. monthly searches 3 standard deviation above the mean.

10. Move High Searches keywords aside. Repeat step 8 to calculate the mean and standard deviation again but this time without the high searches keywords.

11. Label keywords as “Mid Searches” for all keywords with Avg. monthly searches 1 standard deviation above the mean. And label everything else as “Low searches.”

12. Label “diversify” to all keywords with “Low Searches”

13. Label “diversify” to all keywords with repeated words. For example, a keyword in my list is “dog training dog training,” a repeated words keyword. Don’t know why Google would recommend this word, but I’m going to classify it as a diversify keyword.

14. Label “diversify” to all keywords that is a domain name and it’s not your domain name. Domain names being suggested as related keywords will show up sometimes because people search domain names quite often.

15. Label all keywords to “no competition” where their competition is less than 0.1.

16. Label “potential main” to all keywords with “High or Mid searches” where the keywords repeat in the URL more than 50% of the time. The URL is your money site URL, the page you plan to back link to. For example, if your keyword is “dog training expert,” and your URL is dogtrainingonline.com, both the word dog and the word training appear in the URL. So 2/3 words of this keyword is in your URL, more than 50% of the time. This is the exact match domain (EMD) concept; the theory is that having your keywords in your URL will help you in the SERP but many Gurus now claim that EMD doesn’t help with your keyword ranking. I think say that it doesn’t hurt to focus your backlinks in keywords that have high or mid searches and it’s in your URL.

17. Label “potential main” to all keywords with “High searches, ROI Index greater than 100 and has a high keyword density on your URL page.” There are a lot of free tools out there that will scan your page and give you the keyword density, but a lot of those tools will consider image alt tags, link alt tags, image name and other junks as keywords. If anyone know of a good free tool, please share!

The way I do my keyword density is different. I have a php script that strips out all the junk and anything that repeats on the page like a list because a list usually have some words in there that repeat over and over. So whatever that’s left is mainly, the title, description, and maybe 100 words or so all together that best describe what the page is about. I match each keyword against this leftover content, and if it matches 2 times or higher, I’ll say it’s high keyword density. So, it’s best you find a free tool to classify which keyword is high density for this step.

18. Label “potential secondary” to all keywords with “ROI Index greater than 100 and has a high keyword density on your URL page.” This step, I consider my high keyword density when there the keyword matches 1 time or higher against the leftover content mentioned in step 17.

19. Qualify each of the potential main and potential secondary keywords by looking at the search results and check what URLs are ranking in the top 20. I use semrush.com API to get the top 20 URLs and then use seomoz.com API to get the DomainAuthority, PageAuthority for each of the 20 URLs I get from Semrush. You can search on Google to get the top 20 results and use opensiteexplorer.org to get the DA and PA. For URL with both DA and PA less than 50, I consider them as no authority page, meaning that if they can rank, I can rank.

I will go through each of their competitor’s URLs from the top 20 results and for each no authority URL that rank in the top 10, I give two points and for those in SERP 11-20, I give one point. The more points means the easier I can rank for those keywords.

For each potential main keywords with 3 points or higher, I will qualify them as main keywords else I’ll drop them to secondary keywords. For each potential secondary keywords with 8 points or higher, I will qualify bump them to main keywords. If they are 3 points or higher, I’ll qualify them as secondary keywords else I’ll drop them to diversify keywords.

20. Done!
After all these steps you now have what you need!
Main keywords are really relevant to your URL and/or content on the page with high monthly searches and could be possible to rank for since other small sites/urls are already ranking.
Secondary keywords are related keywords where they have decent monthly searches and could be possible to rank for.
Diversify keywords with little search traffic but they are related to your niche and could be used to diversify your backlink anchors.

No competition keywords where you could blast some back linking campaigns and maybe get some free traffic and at the same time diversify your backlink anchors.

Wow, this post took longer than I expected! It’s like a mini eBook!

I bet it took you guys a long time to read this.

Hope you guys found something useful.

Thanks!
#guide #keyword #keyword research #part #research #seo #show #step #tutorial
  • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
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    • Hi

      The keyword phase sounds pretty comprehensive - just wanted to know if you rate or utilise commercial intent in your extended process?

      Regards

      Bronwyn and Keith
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      • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
        Originally Posted by Bronwyn and Keith View Post

        Hi

        The keyword phase sounds pretty comprehensive - just wanted to know if you rate or utilise commercial intent in your extended process?

        Regards

        Bronwyn and Keith
        nope, I'm only writing this post so others can contribute and we can all learn something from it. If this thread gets enough attention, then I'll keep writing the rest of what I know. Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Your way for calculating competition is completely screwed up. It uses the competition number provided in the Google Keyword Planner which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword.

    You also are falsely assuming that if a keyword has a high search volume and low competition that your ROI will automatically be higher. As Bronwyn and Keith mentioned, you are doing nothing to measure commercial intent. There are lots of easy keywords to rank for with decent traffic, but they are not all buying keywords.

    For example, something like "How tall is Mount Everest" probably gets a lot of searches and is not all that competitive to rank for, but it is not likely to make you much money no matter how you monetize it.

    The whole PA/DA thing... Well, if it works for you, fine. I think it should be mentioned though that PA and DA are horribly unreliable metrics by themselves. I have seen plenty of domains with a DA over 60 that is not ranking for anything and has nothing but crappy links. I have also seen plenty of domains in OSE that have a DA well over 30 and have zero links in the database, which makes no sense at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author online only
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Your way for calculating competition is completely screwed up. It uses the competition number provided in the Google Keyword Planner which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword.

      You also are falsely assuming that if a keyword has a high search volume and low competition that your ROI will automatically be higher. As Bronwyn and Keith mentioned, you are doing nothing to measure commercial intent. There are lots of easy keywords to rank for with decent traffic, but they are not all buying keywords.

      For example, something like "How tall is Mount Everest" probably gets a lot of searches and is not all that competitive to rank for, but it is not likely to make you much money no matter how you monetize it.

      The whole PA/DA thing... Well, if it works for you, fine. I think it should be mentioned though that PA and DA are horribly unreliable metrics by themselves. I have seen plenty of domains with a DA over 60 that is not ranking for anything and has nothing but crappy links. I have also seen plenty of domains in OSE that have a DA well over 30 and have zero links in the database, which makes no sense at all.
      I agree with you, but PA/DA are still very good indicators when valuating authority site page strengthness on SERP. Obviously it's pointless to use such metrics on buyindianfollowers.in type of sites. Such sites don't rank much anyway nowadays.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
        Originally Posted by online only View Post

        I agree with you, but PA/DA are still very good indicators when valuating authority site page strengthness on SERP. Obviously it's pointless to use such metrics on buyindianfollowers.in type of sites. Such sites don't rank much anyway nowadays.
        I agree with you! PA/DA is at the very least a better indicator than PR.
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    • Hi Mike

      Great response.

      The thing is all of us can "assume" anything from the info that Google provide or the various tools we use.

      The secret sauce is in the fuller analysis rather than "picking a winner" that a Million other people have also jumped on.

      The best chance you have is to do what others aren't prepared to do - use all the metrics you can, use them properly and take your time doing it rather than rush through and hope like hell that you got the "magic" keyword.

      Regards

      Bronwyn and Keith
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Your way for calculating competition is completely screwed up. It uses the competition number provided in the Google Keyword Planner which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword.

      You also are falsely assuming that if a keyword has a high search volume and low competition that your ROI will automatically be higher. As Bronwyn and Keith mentioned, you are doing nothing to measure commercial intent. There are lots of easy keywords to rank for with decent traffic, but they are not all buying keywords.

      For example, something like "How tall is Mount Everest" probably gets a lot of searches and is not all that competitive to rank for, but it is not likely to make you much money no matter how you monetize it.

      The whole PA/DA thing... Well, if it works for you, fine. I think it should be mentioned though that PA and DA are horribly unreliable metrics by themselves. I have seen plenty of domains with a DA over 60 that is not ranking for anything and has nothing but crappy links. I have also seen plenty of domains in OSE that have a DA well over 30 and have zero links in the database, which makes no sense at all.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8998802].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Your way for calculating competition is completely screwed up. It uses the competition number provided in the Google Keyword Planner which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword.

      You also are falsely assuming that if a keyword has a high search volume and low competition that your ROI will automatically be higher. As Bronwyn and Keith mentioned, you are doing nothing to measure commercial intent. There are lots of easy keywords to rank for with decent traffic, but they are not all buying keywords.

      For example, something like "How tall is Mount Everest" probably gets a lot of searches and is not all that competitive to rank for, but it is not likely to make you much money no matter how you monetize it.

      The whole PA/DA thing... Well, if it works for you, fine. I think it should be mentioned though that PA and DA are horribly unreliable metrics by themselves. I have seen plenty of domains with a DA over 60 that is not ranking for anything and has nothing but crappy links. I have also seen plenty of domains in OSE that have a DA well over 30 and have zero links in the database, which makes no sense at all.

      How is it that a lot of people are buying a keyword has absolutely nothing to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword?
      If the competition is high, a lot of people buying the keyword, couldn't I assume that it is a somewhat competitive to rank for?

      At the same time, competition is low and no one is buying the keyword, couldn't I prequalify the keywords with decent traffic?

      Monetizing and considering the commercial intent is a whole new topic. If a person's website is related the Mount Everest, then he better figure out a way to monetize traffic with people coming in from "How tall is Mount Everest." Could be using adsense, CPM banners, pop up, optin, upsell, anything. If you are so certain that a keyword that can get lots of searches and easy to rank for but not likely to make much money from it, then don't blame the keyword, blame his website/niche.

      I agree with you with the PA/DA that it is somewhat unreliable. When we go through the top 20 SERP competitiors, we could go and spend more time to look at their backlinks and see who are linking to them, and dig deeper like using Ahrefs, Majestic Seo. But, that's just more time invested and how reliable are those stats when what they have in their database is on a fraction of what Google has. So PA/DA is just another metric we could consider using to quickly get a feel of their competition.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

        How is it that a lot of people are buying a keyword has absolutely nothing to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword?
        If the competition is high, a lot of people buying the keyword, couldn't I assume that it is a somewhat competitive to rank for?
        It doesn't work that way.

        A lot of people that buy PPC suck at ranking pages in organic SERPs, so they have no choice than to pay via PPC If they want to manage their own site/traffic.

        Each organic keyword has unique competition, that even goes for singular & plural keywords.

        If your serious about SEO you need to dig in & research the already ranked organic pages.
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        • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          It doesn't work that way.

          A lot of people that buy PPC suck at ranking pages in organic SERPs, so they have no choice than to pay via PPC If they want to manage their own site/traffic.

          Each organic keyword has unique competition, that even goes for singular & plural keywords.

          If your serious about SEO you need to dig in & research the already ranked organic pages.
          That's true! So, this process will lose some potential keywords that could have been doable but got filtered out by the high competition. What if we skip this step and keep those high competition keywords and look at their top 20 competitors to see if they are doable?
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
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            Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

            That's true! So, this process will lose some potential keywords that could have been doable but got filtered out by the high competition. What if we skip this step and keep those high competition keywords and look at their top 20 competitors to see if they are doable?
            You only need to look at the competition at the top of the first page of organic SERPs.
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            • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              You only need to look at the competition at the top of the first page of organic SERPs.
              Yukon, that's what I was considering too but just wanted to go over the top. I guess the top 10 will do and will save me 50% of my API credits! Thanks!
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            • Profile picture of the author whawk57
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              You only need to look at the competition at the top of the first page of organic SERPs.
              Use Seoquake browser plugin to help you out with that one!
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              Peace!



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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                Originally Posted by whawk57 View Post

                Use Seoquake browser plugin to help you out with that one!
                I already have SEOquake.
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      • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
        Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

        How is it that a lot of people are buying a keyword has absolutely nothing to do with the level of competition for ranking a keyword?
        If the competition is high, a lot of people buying the keyword, couldn't I assume that it is a somewhat competitive to rank for?

        At the same time, competition is low and no one is buying the keyword, couldn't I prequalify the keywords with decent traffic?

        Monetizing and considering the commercial intent is a whole new topic. If a person's website is related the Mount Everest, then he better figure out a way to monetize traffic with people coming in from "How tall is Mount Everest." Could be using adsense, CPM banners, pop up, optin, upsell, anything. If you are so certain that a keyword that can get lots of searches and easy to rank for but not likely to make much money from it, then don't blame the keyword, blame his website/niche.

        I agree with you with the PA/DA that it is somewhat unreliable. When we go through the top 20 SERP competitiors, we could go and spend more time to look at their backlinks and see who are linking to them, and dig deeper like using Ahrefs, Majestic Seo. But, that's just more time invested and how reliable are those stats when what they have in their database is on a fraction of what Google has. So PA/DA is just another metric we could consider using to quickly get a feel of their competition.
        The competition in adwords is an indicator of the commercial intent of the keyword. It's just coincidence that some keywords with high competition in adwords are also competitive in the organic search. But some keywords are not.

        To analyze the competition for ranking that keyword, of course you should analyze the link profiles of the top10 competitors in order to find out if any of them are using blackhat or have some very powerful backlinks.

        If some website are using blackhat techniques, you know you can beat them even though the PA is very high(in fact,google beats them). If the website has some very powerful backlinks such as NewYork times backlink, .edu backlink, you know it can be very hard to beat them. So it's not enough to just check the PA&DA, it's a must to analyze the link profile.
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        • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
          I believe if people continue to spend money to buy keywords PPC, the odd is that they are making money. And in that case, it is in direct relation to how competitive the keyword is in the organic result. If people need to pay to get traffic, imagine how competitive it would be to get free traffic to rank high with those keywords. The extreme example would be "credit cards, loans, domain names."

          If you have the time and the skill to analyze the link profile of each ranking competitor, I'm all for it.

          But if you don't, looking at the DA/PA could be a quick indicator.

          Why not trust Seomoz, they are the big guy in the industry, they might not be perfect, but I'm sure they have more resources and a larger database than what many of us have. So, why reinvent the wheel and go through the trouble of over analyzing each competitor when Google already filtered out some of the blackhat spammers from the SERP and SEOmoz already gave an indicator of how good each url is.

          And ever since Google and its animal updates, you can't just focus in that one magical keyword you find after spending countless hours link profiling. It's about not just having one keyword that's money but a bunch of related keywords to diversify your anchors.
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

            I believe if people continue to spend money to buy keywords PPC, the odd is that they are making money. And in that case, it is in direct relation to how competitive the keyword is in the organic result. If people need to pay to get traffic, imagine how competitive it would be to get free traffic to rank high with those keywords. The extreme example would be "credit cards, loans, domain names."
            Of course it is in relation to how competitive it is, on one denies that.

            But keywords with LOW competition according to Adwords have close to zero commercial value so you can almost say that you should ignore those.

            So then we end up with med/high competition ones and then you need another way to determine the competition of those. DA/PA of the top 10 is a reasonably well strategy, it's what Moz competition checker does.

            Sure there are exceptions of massive spammed sites, as it's real easy to inflate DA/PA, and in certain niches that only get spammed it would be worthless. However in most "normal" niches it's pretty reliable as PA takes internal links also into account while tools like LongTailPro and such completely ignore that and only look at the external links.

            Ever saw some PR n/a Amazon page ranking for a somewhat competitive keyword with not a single link pointed at that page? Now run that page through Moz and see what's the outcome, most likely you're looking at a PA40+ page, where Market Samurai or the other ones would have probably classed it as dead easy.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

              If the website has some very powerful backlinks such as NewYork times backlink, .edu backlink, you know it can be very hard to beat them. So it's not enough to just check the PA&DA, it's a must to analyze the link profile.
              .edu links mean nothing.

              Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

              Of course it is in relation to how competitive it is, on one denies that.

              But keywords with LOW competition according to Adwords have close to zero commercial value so you can almost say that you should ignore those.

              So then we end up with med/high competition ones and then you need another way to determine the competition of those. DA/PA of the top 10 is a reasonably well strategy, it's what Moz competition checker does.

              Sure there are exceptions of massive spammed sites, as it's real easy to inflate DA/PA, and in certain niches that only get spammed it would be worthless. However in most "normal" niches it's pretty reliable as PA takes internal links also into account while tools like LongTailPro and such completely ignore that and only look at the external links.

              Ever saw some PR n/a Amazon page ranking for a somewhat competitive keyword with not a single link pointed at that page? Now run that page through Moz and see what's the outcome, most likely you're looking at a PA40+ page, where Market Samurai or the other ones would have probably classed it as dead easy.
              It's not just spammed sites inflating DA/PA. You can also find plenty of sites that have a DA/PA over 30 or 40 with zero links, which makes zero sense.

              The problem with DA/PA is that Moz's link database sucks. It's horrible. If anyone is making keyword decisions based on DA/PA, they are probably throwing out a lot of good keywords. It's also possible you are taking on keywords that are much more difficult than you think.

              As for the AdWords competition thing, NO it is not an indicator of SEO competition. Not at all. You can find plenty of keywords where there is no correlation between the two. Again, you are probably throwing away good keywords.
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              • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                It's not just spammed sites inflating DA/PA. You can also find plenty of sites that have a DA/PA over 30 or 40 with zero links, which makes zero sense.

                The problem with DA/PA is that Moz's link database sucks. It's horrible. If anyone is making keyword decisions based on DA/PA, they are probably throwing out a lot of good keywords. It's also possible you are taking on keywords that are much more difficult than you think.

                As for the AdWords competition thing, NO it is not an indicator of SEO competition. Not at all. You can find plenty of keywords where there is no correlation between the two. Again, you are probably throwing away good keywords.
                I've seen some cases of DA25 and not a single link indeed so where they pull that number from is quite amazing.

                Still I have the feeling these are exceptions, same like LOW competition keywords with high commercial value are an exception and vice versa will happen more often of course but it only takes a quick look to determine for yourself whether it's a money making keyword or not.
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              • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                .edu links mean nothing.
                .edu link means nothing? So if I have a contextual link on a pr7 page of an university website and the content on the page is relative and high quality, this link means nothing? Are you sure? And this page doesn't sell links, doesn't have any spammy comments on it.
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                • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                  .edu link means nothing? So if I have a contextual link on a pr7 those byf an university website and the content on the page is relative and high quality, this link means nothing? Are you sure? And this page doesn't sell links, doesn't have any spammy comments on it.
                  I hear they sell those by the thousands over on fiver. All pr7 links son.
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                  • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                    Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                    I hear they sell those by the thousands over on fiver. All pr7 links son.
                    That must be spammy comments links which is totally different from the link I mentioned above. You have no idea about what is quality backlink, what is not.
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                    • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                      Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                      That must be spammy comments links which is totally different from the link I mentioned above. You have no idea about what is quality backlink, what is not.
                      Hey hey now don't get mad at me because you just got put in your place and then tried to slip in pr7 so you could validate an incorrect assumption about a rumor you heard from bubba. Yeah i saw that.
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                  .edu link means nothing? So if I have a contextual link on a pr7 page of an university website and the content on the page is relative and high quality, this link means nothing? Are you sure? And this page doesn't sell links, doesn't have any spammy comments on it.

                  It means nothing more than a contexual link on PR 7 page of a .com site with relative and high quality content.

                  There is no extra weight given to .edu links. Anyone telling people otherwise is either clueless or selling .edu links.
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                  • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    It means nothing more than a contexual link on PR 7 page of a .com site with relative and high quality content.

                    There is no extra weight given to .edu links. Anyone telling people otherwise is either clueless or selling .edu links.
                    Maybe the link juice is the same as a pr7 .com link. But it influences the trust rank of the site which gets that link. That's the extra weight of .edu link. Google likes to rank the trusted websites higher. I know pr7 .com link also increases the trust rank. But I think a "vote" from university professor is quite different from a vote from a authority webmaster.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                      Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                      Maybe the link juice is the same as a pr7 .com link. But it influences the trust rank of the site which gets that link. That's the extra weight of .edu link. Google likes to rank the trusted websites higher.
                      There is no added trust because one site says .edu and one says .com.

                      That is a myth that has been around for ten years.
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                      • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                        There is no added trust because one site says .edu and one says .com.

                        That is a myth that has been around for ten years.
                        Of course there is more trust. How can you say a vote from a professor is the same as a vote from a webmaster? Essentially,backlink is vote.
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                        • Profile picture of the author yukon
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                          Of course there is more trust. How can you say a vote from a professor is the same as a vote from a webmaster? Essentially,backlink is vote.
                          How many professors are buying .edu links? I know there's a few people around here selling those types of low budget links. I wouldn't trust them a bit.
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                          • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                            How many professors are buying .edu links? I know there's a few people around here selling those types of low budget links. I wouldn't trust them a bit.
                            I don't trust some of the professors either. But google trusts. And I think the majority of professors don't sell links.
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                            • Profile picture of the author yukon
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                              I don't trust some of the professors either. But google trusts.
                              There's nothing special about an edu/gov link just because of the TLD.



                              Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                              And I think the majority of professors don't sell links.
                              That's my point, only knuckleheads are selling edu/gov links to people that don't know any better.
                              • intitle:"edu" site:www.warriorforum.com/warriors-hire

                              Would you trust a site that can be blasted with backlinks?
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                              • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                                There's nothing special about an edu/gov link just because of the TLD.





                                That's my point, only knuckleheads are selling edu/gov links to people that don't know any better.

                                Would you trust a site that can be blasted with backlinks?
                                Some gov websites also sell backlinks, so you don't trust any gov sites? Some newspaper also sell ads or something else, so you don't trust any newspapers? I don't know why you still say there is nothing special about edu link. Of course the paid edu links are bad, but there are more natural editorial edu links. Those are better than normal links.

                                And it's not true that one page or maybe some pages are spam, then the whole website is spam. Google may not trust the spam page of an education website, but it still trusts other pages of that website, no doubt about that.
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                                • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                  Some gov websites also sell backlinks, so you don't trust any gov sites? Some newspaper also sell ads or something else, so you don't trust any newspapers? I don't know why you still say there is nothing special about edu link. Of course the paid edu links are bad, but there are more natural editorial edu links. Those are better than normal links.

                                  And it's not true that one page or maybe some pages are spam, then the whole website is spam. Google may not trust the spam page of an education website, but it still trusts other pages of that website, no doubt about that.
                                  Never mind.

                                  I'm tired of trying to explain.
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                                • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                  I don't know why you still say there is nothing special about edu link.
                                  Because there's no indication that there is anything special about them. You didn't present any worthwhile data or even good arguments to that debate. "But they look so legit" seems to be the strongest argument.

                                  So the tld might be controlled, and not everyone can get one. Scarce maybe, but doesn't say anything about quality.

                                  Some backlink checkers tend to show them separately. And yes, I'd agree that it's an interesting sign that a site has gov or edu backlinks. If they're legitimate it's something that you may want to investigate. But that doesn't really say anything about the properties of those linking sites either.
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                                • Profile picture of the author RandySwanston
                                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                  I don't know why you still say there is nothing special about edu link.
                                  .EDU and .COM both are same in the eyes of Google. What matters is the authority of the Domain, be it any, the weightage is always same. TLDs doesn't matter to Google. I don't know why some link sellers are misleading innocent folks by hyping edu links. sick and tired
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                          • Profile picture of the author nik0
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                            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                            How many professors are buying .edu links? I know there's a few people around here selling those types of low budget links. I wouldn't trust them a bit.
                            Yeah it's the same like any blog comment or PR n/a sub domain blog.
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                        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                          Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                          Of course there is more trust. How can you say a vote from a professor is the same as a vote from a webmaster? Essentially,backlink is vote.
                          Most links on an .EDU site are not setup or approved by professors. There is administrative staff at the university that handles the majority of their website.

                          Google does not look at it as a link "approved by a professor" versus a link "approved by a webmaster". I have no idea who has been filling your head with such crap, but you should stop listening to them.
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                          • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                            Most links on an .EDU site are not setup or approved by professors. There is administrative staff at the university that handles the majority of their website.

                            Google does not look at it as a link "approved by a professor" versus a link "approved by a webmaster". I have no idea who has been filling your head with such crap, but you should stop listening to them.
                            You have already admited not all the links are not approved by professors.

                            For example, if I have made a helpful resource and a professor recommends the resource in his class. Then the content of that class is uploaded to the website of the university. A backlink to my resource is included in the content.

                            Isn't this a vote from a professor, isn't this link more powerful than a normal link?
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                            • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                              Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                              For example, if I have made a helpful resource and a professor recommends the resource in his class. Then the content of that class is uploaded to the website of the university. A backlink to my resource is included in the content.

                              Isn't this a vote from a professor, isn't this link more powerful than a normal link?
                              Cool story, bro. You just left out the plot twist where it somehow connects to the Google algo.

                              Maybe it's a "vote" from a professor, or maybe from a postdoc, secretary or a kindergardener. Can you prove that it makes a difference for SEO? Just being able to tell a story or come up with a scheme doesn't mean that it's true.
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                              • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                                Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

                                Maybe it's a "vote" from a professor
                                "The professor recommends the resource in his class." Can you understand this sentence?
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                                • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                  "The professor recommends the resource in his class." Can you understand this sentence?
                                  Can you understand "that has got absolutely nothing to do with Google algorithms"?
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                                  • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                                    Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

                                    Can you understand "that has got absolutely nothing to do with Google algorithms"?
                                    So you know all about Google algorithms? You think Matt cutts told you everything about Google algorithms? Do you know Matt never does that?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                                      Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                      So you know all about Google algorithms? You think Matt cutts told you everything about Google algorithms?
                                      Added: Nope, but there's no good link from the "professor argument" to anything happening online. And it's a weak one in any case, because not all .edu institutions are equal.

                                      I'm not claiming to be an authority on this stuff, just asking for some evidence. Yes, these things are hard to prove and even Cutts himself has been surprised on how little the SEOs seem to know about Google's algorithm changes, but that just means that we need to stop repeating rumours and investigate the claims if we can.

                                      If there's good information or theories that respected SEO practitioners find plausible, do point out where.

                                      If you want discuss authority some of the other commenters know this field pretty well. They've repeatedly told you what they think of it.
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                            • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                              Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                              Isn't this a vote from a professor, isn't this link more powerful than a normal link?

                              Ummmm, no. Not unless you have "powerful" links going to that page. Besides, aren't all links normal? :confused: Thread derailed like a pro.
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                            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                              Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                              For example, if I have made a helpful resource and a professor recommends the resource in his class. Then the content of that class is uploaded to the website of the university. A backlink to my resource is included in the content.

                              Isn't this a vote from a professor, isn't this link more powerful than a normal link?
                              Google is not ranking content based on the occupation of whoever published it. This is one of the most asinine (but creative) ideas I have heard around here.

                              So according to your completely baseless theory, are professors at the top of the food chain? Or is is physicians? What about astrophysicists? Where do accountants, dentists, and lawyers fit in?

                              Besides it being complete nonsense, there is another problem with your theory. Google would never factor in occupation to the ranking algorithm because not everyone in an occupation is equal. There are tons of awful professors in the world. They are not all equal.

                              As for your story about a professor publishing content to be used in class, it would not be an awful link except for a few problems. It is on a PR n/a page that is not likely to get many links, if any, and most likely would stay a PR 0 at best.

                              Second, course curriculums change all the time. There is a good chance the link won't last more than 1-2 years.

                              And third, if the content is specifically for a class, then search engines would never find it. The students most likely have to login to a section of the website in order to see the content. That means it is not accessible to search engines.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
                                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                                So according to your completely baseless theory, are professors at the top of the food chain? Or is is physicians? What about astrophysicists? Where do accountants, dentists, and lawyers fit in?
                                OH YEAH ???

                                Well how come this guys ranking pages like a BOSSSSSS!!!!

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                              • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                                Google is not ranking content based on the occupation of whoever published it. This is one of the most asinine (but creative) ideas I have heard around here.

                                So according to your completely baseless theory, are professors at the top of the food chain? Or is is physicians? What about astrophysicists? Where do accountants, dentists, and lawyers fit in?

                                Besides it being complete nonsense, there is another problem with your theory. Google would never factor in occupation to the ranking algorithm because not everyone in an occupation is equal. There are tons of awful professors in the world. They are not all equal.

                                As for your story about a professor publishing content to be used in class, it would not be an awful link except for a few problems. It is on a PR n/a page that is not likely to get many links, if any, and most likely would stay a PR 0 at best.

                                Second, course curriculums change all the time. There is a good chance the link won't last more than 1-2 years.

                                And third, if the content is specifically for a class, then search engines would never find it. The students most likely have to login to a section of the website in order to see the content. That means it is not accessible to search engines.
                                You are so conceited that you think you know everything about google algorithm. Remember you are not Matt Cutts! It's a waste of time to talk with such a person like you. OK all you said are right! Google should hire you to work for them! I won't waste my time posting here any more.
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                                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                  You are so conceited that you think you know everything about google algorithm. Remember you are not Matt Cutts! It's a waste of time to talk with such as person like you.
                                  I'm not conceited. I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws with your theory.

                                  Show us proof, any proof, of your theory. That is all anyone has asked for.

                                  Now the idea that the author of content can influence rankings is not new, and might be very viable. However, Google is tracking that through Google+ and Google Authorship, not by ranking content publishers post based on their implied occupation.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                                    I'm not conceited. I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws with your theory.

                                    Show us proof, any proof, of your theory. That is all anyone has asked for.

                                    Now the idea that the author of content can influence rankings is not new, and might be very viable. However, Google is tracking that through Google+ and Google Authorship, not by ranking content publishers post based on their implied occupation.
                                    You want proof? Check out here: MozTrust - Learn SEO - Moz Maybe edu link doesn't pass more link juice, but it increases the trustrank of your website. That's the extra value of edu link!
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                                    • Profile picture of the author nik0
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                      You want proof? Check out here: MozTrust - Learn SEO - Moz Maybe edu link doesn't pass more link juice, but it increases the trustrank of your website. That's the extra value of edu link!
                                      I don't think so.

                                      Let's say the .edu site is a PR6, why would it have more trust then another PR6 domain with a similar back link profile?

                                      Just because it has the extension .edu?

                                      Sure you can argue that it's likely that an .edu domain has more links from other .edu and .gov sites but nothing that a .com domain couldn't achieve.

                                      In short it's just an overhyped thing.

                                      Maybe you should read that article on Moz again:

                                      "Receiving links from sources with inherent trust—such as the homepages of major university websites"

                                      Good luck with getting a homepage link from them!

                                      Besides, they only used universities and government sites as an example to explain it in an easy way to the noobs.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author fearlesspioneer
                                        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                        I don't think so.

                                        Let's say the .edu site is a PR6, why would it have more trust then another PR6 domain with a similar back link profile?

                                        Just because it has the extension .edu?

                                        Sure you can argue that it's likely that an .edu domain has more links from other .edu and .gov sites but nothing that a .com domain couldn't achieve.

                                        In short it's just an overhyped thing.

                                        Maybe you should read that article on Moz again:

                                        "Receiving links from sources with inherent trust—such as the homepages of major university websites"

                                        Good luck with getting a homepage link from them!

                                        Besides, they only used universities and government sites as an example to explain it in an easy way to the noobs.
                                        Did you read the moz article I mentioned above? Moz said edu and gov site are more trusted! I don't think you understand what is trustrank. Because edu and gov site are trusted seed websites. So they are different from other .com sites. Or we can say that the reason why some .com sites are trusted is that they got some edu and gov links. But those sites are 2nd tier trusted sites, they are not the 1st tier seed sites.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                                          Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                          Did you read the moz article I mentioned above? Moz said edu and gov site are more trusted!
                                          That page is only talking about MozTrust, their own proprietary algorithm and their method of using seed sites. That's got very little to do with Google. Sure, we can talk about other methods of ranking websites, but after your remarks about Google's algo I don't really see any worthwhile argument here.

                                          Also they didn't say what you think they said. It's just a way of explaining a good link as was pointed above. The operative word there is "major", as in major university websites. They didn't say a word about TLDs there, but later in the article casually dropped "media websites" to the same pile. That seemingly minor addition effectively destroys your "TLD behind MozTrust" argument.

                                          .edu has been for US-affiliated institutions of higher education since early 2000s. There's university websites all over the world. The one closest to me is .fi and has homepage PR of 7.

                                          Several major universities were among the first to get a website back in the 90s. They're trusted academic institutions, which brings them backlinks from students, affiliates and ordinary laypeople. This is all perfectly fine as an explanation for the high PR and trust scores on those sites, but it simply doesn't translate to .edu having any particular power.
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                                • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                                  Originally Posted by fearlesspioneer View Post

                                  It's a waste of time to talk with such a person like you. OK all you said are right! Google should hire you to work for them! I won't waste my time posting here any more.
                                  I do appreciate the level of irony you've achieved. You've not only completely hijacked a thread, but have kept repeating a weird claim that Mike F. summed up well.

                                  You're not doing any favours to your own "theory" here. About the only thing you seem to be able to do is attack people instead of their ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
    The approach is relying on Excel quite a lot, which means that the results are not terribly useful if the calculations are based on incorrect data. I had the feeling that there might be some weird assumptions in there, but couldn't place my finger on it before reading the comments above. Indeed the Competition score in Keyword Planner isn't reliable for this purpose. I guess it might be more obvious for my home market that has only a couple of million potential internet users and much less advertisers. The number is often just completely random.

    I didn't understand the bit about keyword density and PHP script.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
      Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

      The approach is relying on Excel quite a lot, which means that the results are not terribly useful if the calculations are based on incorrect data. I had the feeling that there might be some weird assumptions in there, but couldn't place my finger on it before reading the comments above. Indeed the Competition score in Keyword Planner isn't reliable for this purpose. I guess it might be more obvious for my home market that has only a couple of million potential internet users and much less advertisers. The number is often just completely random.

      I didn't understand the bit about keyword density and PHP script.
      Yeah, lots of Excel because I'm new here and don't know how much IM people know about programming. I actually have to go through my php code and translate some of them to excel.

      For the keyword density part, I don't know how I can go into detail with words. What I do is to check if those keywords are on the page. I guess, people can just glance at those main and secondary keywords and see if they are related to their page. Because Google sometimes recommend really weird related keywords.
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  • Profile picture of the author whawk57
    Why all this confusion? Here's my KISS to this (Keep It Simple Stupid).
    Forget Adwords tool, it's data is usually over six months old. Here is a fresh way to do it.

    1 Open the Google search page, search something and in the results page continue below

    2 Type keyword slowly and take note of the suggestions. Jot them down on paper.
    (works great with phrases)

    3 Check out the competition with and without quotes (more tricks to that like with the squared brackets).

    4 Add 'synonym' without the quotes after a single keyword in the search box and you' get all the synonyms !



    That's it!
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  • Profile picture of the author whawk57
    Why all this confusion? Here's my KISS to this (Keep It Simple Stupid).
    Forget Adwords tool, it's data is usually over six months old. Here is a fresh way to do it.

    1 Open the Google search page, search something and in the results page continue below

    2 Type keyword slowly and take note of the suggestions. Jot them down on paper.
    (works great with phrases)

    3 Check out the competition with and without quotes (more tricks to that like with the squared brackets).

    4 Add 'synonym' after a single keyword in the search box and you' get all the synonyms !



    That's it!
    Signature

    Peace!



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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by whawk57 View Post

      3 Check out the competition with and without quotes (more tricks to that like with the squared brackets).
      Checking the results with quotes tells you nothing. Unless you are trying to rank for song lyrics or something like that, rarely does anyone search for anything with quotes.
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  • it still confusing for noobs.just take the main idea.yeah you good for keywords planner but.just take a while on keywords and get the best.the rest of it just make an articles and design your templates.don't be too long for keywords research.
    just do the actions..don't calculate too long.
    noobs always want the simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author whawk57
    The quotes are useful for the exact search term phrases.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by whawk57 View Post

      The quotes are useful for the exact search term phrases.
      Like I said, people almost never search for exact search phrases.

      People search for

      affordable auto insurance

      not

      "affordable auto insurance"
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      • Profile picture of the author whawk57
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Like I said, people almost never search for exact search phrases.

        People search for

        affordable auto insurance

        not

        "affordable auto insurance"
        Yes you're right, but what I meant was for your own sake (in research) to see which sites are using the same exact term in competition wise.
        If too many sites are using the exact same term, then the competition could be too high.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by whawk57 View Post

          Yes you're right, but I what I meant was for your own sake to see which sites are using the same exact term in competition wise.
          And again, searching in quotes is completely and utterly useless for judging competition.

          Put your search term in the search bar. You see the top 3 results? That's your competition. That's it.

          Stuff like searching in quotes, looking at how many results are in the index, looking at the PR of the sites on page one... all of that is old rehashed advice from 10 years ago. It was never that good of advice to begin with, but somehow it keeps hanging on.
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          • Profile picture of the author jxam69
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            And again, searching in quotes is completely and utterly useless for judging competition.
            But what if I want to rank for: "

            Should I put it in double quotes such as: """

            Or would single quotes be better: '"'

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            • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
              Originally Posted by jxam69 View Post

              But what if I want to rank for: "

              Should I put it in double quotes such as: """

              Or would single quotes be better: '"'

              It's more like

              """ intitle:"""+intext:"""+inurl:""" :p
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      • Profile picture of the author syedqurat
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Like I said, people almost never search for exact search phrases.

        People search for

        affordable auto insurance

        not

        "affordable auto insurance"
        No one search but we need to search with quote if we need to search exact string/text on page.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
    so the questions here are

    1. should we consider using the competition factor Google gives to prequalify keywords?

    2. should we consider using PA/DA to analyze competitors that are ranking?

    I will do a a specific example tomorrow and we can all give our inputs as to which keywords should have been included and which shouldn't and why? This is going to be interesting, and if we can come to a somewhat consensus, everyone wins!

    Nite and cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I use double quotes on a keyword phrase for the competitions site, just to get an idea how serious they are about the exact phrase, example:
    • site:www.warriorforum.com intitle:"keyword research"

    That would assume warriorforum.com ranked #1 for keyword research in Google SERPs, or whatever SERP position I was aiming to rank for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Not a big fan of spinning—I think it's usefulness is over— but it's nice to see someone sharing info so openly.
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    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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  • Profile picture of the author aspic791
    Great method, although about link building, I always vote for social bookmarking method as it was always trusted by search engine and the high page rank social websites got that will help your sites get fast indexed and get you a higher search result position.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
      Originally Posted by aspic791 View Post

      Great method, although about link building, I always vote for social bookmarking method as it was always trusted by search engine and the high page rank social websites got that will help your sites get fast indexed and get you a higher search result position.
      for link posting, I use everything. And I love to do a blast like a sudden news, huge blast and see my site fly up the SERP, have to make it look natural though like the percentage of the links coming in from diffferent properties. And at the same time have the right percentage of social (Tweets, FB, G+, etc) and comments (noise) to back it up. It's kind of like those product launch blast. It still works. I'm actually doing it to 23 of some of my old sites that were collecting dust!
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      • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
        wow my post is about edu link now! haha

        well, I think everyone got a point here. It is pretty much the same if it's .edu or .com. or even .gov. Every page is an entity of itself. But, if domain extensions were to have a slightly different weight, I would have to vote that .gov would be heaviest, then .edu, then the rest.

        The reason being is because .gov and .edu are closed networks where the other extensions, anyone can buy and do whatever to. And since it's a closed network, it's usually maintained by someone. Of course there are a lot of .gov and .edu sites don't get updated and are pretty much dead but comparing that to the amount of dead/parked .com sites, the difference is big.

        So fearlesspioneer, I think I agree with you more. The word absolutely nothing is a bit extreme, supply and demand, basic economic, if it's worth nothing, then maybe you guys can sell me some .edu and .gov domains! On the contrary, there are ways to get .edu backlinks easily. I do it all the time, anytime. Just not as easy as the other extensions, again "supply and demand"
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        • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
          Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

          The reason being is because .gov and .edu are closed networks where the other extensions, anyone can buy and do whatever to. And since it's a closed network, it's usually maintained by someone. Of course there are a lot of .gov and .edu sites don't get updated and are pretty much dead but comparing that to the amount of dead/parked .com sites, the difference is big.
          They're not "networks". For sure some .edu institutions are linking to each other, but for most part it's just random pile of addresses like any other TLD.

          Sure, legal limits make TLDs seem a bit more high-value by keeping lots of people out, much like our own .fi has been for ages. They've eased the limitations in recent years, but it's not completely free-for-all even today which makes a Finn trust a .fi a bit more. On overall the sites have been more legit that their counterparts with other TLDs. That doesn't really say anything about the quality of backlinks.
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          • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
            Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

            They're not "networks". For sure some .edu institutions are linking to each other, but for most part it's just random pile of addresses like any other TLD.

            Sure, legal limits make TLDs seem a bit more high-value by keeping lots of people out, much like our own .fi has been for ages. They've eased the limitations in recent years, but it's not completely free-for-all even today which makes a Finn trust a .fi a bit more. On overall the sites have been more legit that their counterparts with other TLDs. That doesn't really say anything about the quality of backlinks.
            Which part of it is random? extensions exist for a reason. .edu and .gov classify the type of sites, not that random to me.

            And yes the legal limits making it not easily accessible to spam and abuse, thus an overall a bit more trust. I'm not saying .edu/.gov will give you all the trust/juice you get, but if a feather heavier, it's heaver.
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            • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
              Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

              Which part of it is random? extensions exist for a reason. .edu and .gov classify the type of sites, not that random to me.

              And yes the legal limits making it not easily accessible to spam and abuse, thus an overall a bit more trust. I'm not saying .edu/.gov will give you all the trust/juice you get, but if a feather heavier, it's heaver.
              I was referring to the part about "network". Most sites have no links between them, and in fact they can be competitors on many levels. As far as I know nobody is linking .edu together.

              So... you're not saying that .edu links are any better, but you're saying that .edu links are better. Either I just don't get what you're saying or it doesn't make much sense.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

          So fearlesspioneer, I think I agree with you more. The word absolutely nothing is a bit extreme, supply and demand, basic economic, if it's worth nothing, then maybe you guys can sell me some .edu and .gov domains! On the contrary, there are ways to get .edu backlinks easily. I do it all the time, anytime. Just not as easy as the other extensions, again "supply and demand"
          Then, unfortunately, you are just as clueless as your buddy.

          Links get no added value based on just the TLD. NONE.

          Do you know how easy it is to get .edu links? I could have a thousand of them by tomorrow if I wanted.

          Hell, I could pay a few college kids $20 to give me my own .edu blog.

          Google is much smarter than that. It is a shame there are so many people pushing this myth still today.
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          • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            Then, unfortunately, you are just as clueless as your buddy.

            Links get no added value based on just the TLD. NONE.

            Do you know how easy it is to get .edu links? I could have a thousand of them by tomorrow if I wanted.

            Hell, I could pay a few college kids $20 to give me my own .edu blog.

            Google is much smarter than that. It is a shame there are so many people pushing this myth still today.
            Did you not read what I wrote about easily getting .edu links?Yeah, go ahead and buy a .edu blog for $20, that's easy right? or getting a .com blog easier? So what is Google going to think, getting a .edu is easier?

            One simple question, more spam and junk out there with other TLDs or more spam on .edu/.gov site?

            I'm not saying .edu/.gov are almight powerful, and we all know that getting a link on CNN homepage will give more juice than a kid's .edu blog without needing Google to confirm it.

            So when a professor's personal .edu blog vs. a nobody's .com blog where they have the exact same backlinks, content, andeverything, who would win under a Google manual review? Just answer this.
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            • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
              Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

              So when a professor's personal .edu blog vs. a nobody's .com blog where they have the exact same backlinks, content, andeverything, who would win under a Google manual review? Just answer this.
              You're asking for answer to a hypothetical question regarding an opaque process that's been used by salaried employees of a giant monopolistic corporation. Surely you must realize that it's impossible to answer.

              I guess we can all agree that .edu has less abuse than other extensions, but that doesn't really translate to backlinks being automatically more valuable.
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              • Profile picture of the author IMmonkey
                I'm just saying that .edu are not as valuable as they are advertised by some people, but if it comes down to the penny value, it does have some.

                The question above is simple and we all know the answer to it. And if Google manual review would agree that .edu will win the fight, then maybe that's when the penny value kicks in. Agree?
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                • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
                  Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

                  The question above is simple and we all know the answer to it. And if Google manual review would agree that .edu will win the fight, then maybe that's when the penny value kicks in. Agree?
                  No. Claiming that you know something that specific about Google's internal workings seriously erodes that argument, but in my eyes also every other SEO-related claim you make. You presented it clearly as a hypothetical question ("where they have the exact same backlinks, content, and everything") which I find quite fruitless in this context.

                  If there were two sites that had to be manually reviewed, and had equally shitty content and link profile, it's very likely that both were to receive communique via GWT and, failing to react, excommunication from Google.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by IMmonkey View Post

              Did you not read what I wrote about easily getting .edu links?Yeah, go ahead and buy a .edu blog for $20, that's easy right? or getting a .com blog easier? So what is Google going to think, getting a .edu is easier?

              One simple question, more spam and junk out there with other TLDs or more spam on .edu/.gov site?

              I'm not saying .edu/.gov are almight powerful, and we all know that getting a link on CNN homepage will give more juice than a kid's .edu blog without needing Google to confirm it.

              So when a professor's personal .edu blog vs. a nobody's .com blog where they have the exact same backlinks, content, andeverything, who would win under a Google manual review? Just answer this.
              We are not talking about manual reviews or anything like that. Fearlesspioneer is misleading people into believing that Google gives special weighting to links from a .edu site versus links from a .com, .net, .org, etc. That is just not true.

              Just the TLD alone does not give any special boost to a link.

              Now would I rather have a link from a professor's personal blog versus some a website of some random unknown person? Sure. If it is relevant. However, I would probably take the professor's blog over the random person whether it is a .edu, .com, .net, .yourwrong, etc.

              The only time the TLD comes into play is for geo-specific rankings. If I am trying to rank in the UK for something, I would like to have more links from .co.uk sites. That is when the TLD matters.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    When a supporting argument mentions moz it's reached the next level of failure. - Albert Einstein
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  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
    This is when you should just stop posting
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    There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
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  • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
    OP you had me at "Here comes my SPECIAL RECIPE"
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  • Profile picture of the author pdrs


    STOP THE MADNESS!
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