This is why you aren't ranking!

by Slin
31 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Hey guys, so I've been reading through this forum for the past few days, and it seems like more often then not people are getting confused as to why they are not ranking.

It almost seems to me like everyone is of the same old mentality that building a few thousand links will skyrocket you to the top and that spam is the answer.

First I want to say that even most professional blackhat SEO's don't spam links anymore, or at least not blog comment and forum spam.

If you are going to do blackhat SEO I would suggest sticking with web 2.0 blog networks and pbn networks, remember though, you always run a risk.

Instead of spending money on spam links why not create some good content and then share it to communities? Email other site owners and let them know, this is the real way to start ranking .

I just wanted to write this post because I see this same old weird mentality that spam will rank, I just hope this points someone in the right direction.

I did write a blog about the same thing: 11 SEO Tactics That Could Destroy Your Website | (Note: I wrote the article but I don't own the website at all)

What do you guys think? I think the number one problem around here is some weird kind of cling to outdated information.
#ranking
  • Profile picture of the author molliefr
    Why People Do seo?
    To get rank in top in SERP. Sin't it.

    In my opinion there should not be SEO no parameter either by Google or other search enginges. Let Google and other search decide what is best. Because Google also try to give best possible information to user searching for something.

    Till Google keep the guidelines people here will try to spam and do balck hat and fool them but eventuality in course of time they disappear. But thier purpose is serverd. SEO are not to be allowed rather as you says content should be. Why we serach ? Because we need somthing didn't we? So SEO will give that? No the content will.
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    • Profile picture of the author Electrical
      Wow, so people should write quality content as the new way to do SEO? We would have NEVER known, thank you so much! It's not like that exact thing is said 400 times per day. Without you (and your link to your blog with a pop-up advertisement) we would still be in the dark ages.

      From the bottom of our hearts, thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fat Bob
    My site is full of great content, but no one sees it as my site ranks nowhere in Google. Emailing other site owners is a waste of time as they are only interested in promoting their own site.
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    • Profile picture of the author Slin
      Originally Posted by Fat Bob View Post

      My site is full of great content, but no one sees it as my site ranks nowhere in Google. Emailing other site owners is a waste of time as they are only interested in promoting their own site.
      Then your content is not as great as you think it is. I generally have no problems at all getting links from big sites in niches.

      Unless you're in Pharma niche or something similar, that's why most of the niche is blackhat, it's too hard to build up relationships with leaders.
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by Slin View Post

        Then your content is not as great as you think it is. I generally have no problems at all getting links from big sites in niches.

        Unless you're in Pharma niche or something similar, that's why most of the niche is blackhat, it's too hard to build up relationships with leaders.
        So, do you have a website for your own service that is ranked high organically?
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Slin View Post

        Then your content is not as great as you think it is. I generally have no problems at all getting links from big sites in niches.

        Unless you're in Pharma niche or something similar, that's why most of the niche is blackhat, it's too hard to build up relationships with leaders.
        It's same as with idols or xfactor, they think they do great....
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    • Profile picture of the author smedia11
      Originally Posted by Fat Bob View Post

      My site is full of great content, but no one sees it as my site ranks nowhere in Google. Emailing other site owners is a waste of time as they are only interested in promoting their own site.
      ^This exactly
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  • Profile picture of the author Beardo
    Rankjane ? Isn't that a spammy backlink producer much like fiver ?
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  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
    Originally Posted by Slin View Post

    First I want to say that even most professional blackhat SEO's don't spam links anymore, or at least not blog comment and forum spam.

    If you are going to do blackhat SEO I would suggest sticking with web 2.0 blog networks and pbn networks....
    What qualifies you to make these statements?

    Who do you know well enough in the industrial spam game that as an outsider you would have even a vague idea of what is going on?

    Mind you, if it's some kid with 4 or 5 servers running xrumer then that's not a very credible source. Professional BH SEOs don't think about link building in the hundreds to thousands per minute but rather the tens of thousands per minute, per machine.

    Where do you think those links are generated at? Do you even have the slightest clue?

    And how much experience do you actually have in doing it?

    If you are going to try to position yourself as an authority on this then don't be shy with the details. Be aware though, you're already wrong. Industrial BH link spammers basically don't care where the links come from... It's all about link mass and acquisition rate, which is why most xrumer users don't really apply to the current industry. But none the less, I'll be happy to watch you put your foot in your mouth even further.
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    • Profile picture of the author MrFume
      Well this brings up an interesting point, can anyone explain in clear terms what is the actual good advantage to this industrial manufacture of spam links-it seems to me there must be an empirical basis for it to be so keenly pursued-and the mystique dense enough to create all these shadowy experts that lurk in the underworld of the internet? The old SISO equation of computing has to apply-if you fill the net with low quality, useless blog objects-to then use them as link networks that are meant to improve ranking-is this the end game? 100's of thousands of links per second to what end? The internet is an information storage and retrieval network...along with communications...surely high quality information and credible data is what we all crave? The spam link game can anyone provide a clear account?
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

      What qualifies you to make these statements?

      Who do you know well enough in the industrial spam game that as an outsider you would have even a vague idea of what is going on?

      Mind you, if it's some kid with 4 or 5 servers running xrumer then that's not a very credible source. Professional BH SEOs don't think about link building in the hundreds to thousands per minute but rather the tens of thousands per minute, per machine.
      Have to add that I do see a lot of, let's say amateur BH spammers turn to PBN's.

      Eg: I see some guys with failed / spammed money sites about wow gold and replicate bags that they turned into a PBN to rank Amazon niches, so you could draw some conclusions from that.

      Just check page one for certain "best...." ".... reviews" key phrases, sure not professional industrial level, but you see a tendency that more and more EMD like domains / somewhat crappy sites are dominating the 1st page, and not in a total noob approach, you can see they have some BH background based on the link patterns and such, it's just that the massive spam has been replaced with domains (that they might've spammed in further tiers).
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by PotPieGirl View Post

          ...or...they're just good at it
          Actually there's a lot to learn from those spammers.

          Things that most never look at when setting up a PBN like:

          - variation in links per domain (not talking about OBL but how many link you get from one site)

          - variation in CMS / setup

          You can gamble positively on it that when you buy 400 blog posts at some crappy network, all coming from WP and all resulting in first 3 links and then 2 link (home/cat/inner page) that it won't last very long for Google to catch up with it, if that are your only links and you'll need a hell of a lot of other links to disguise that footprint.

          That's the main reason why BH'ers still use blog comments / guest books on large scales, as that's relatively easy to program and gives a large variety in platforms / css.

          I'm personally heading towards the pure html approach, however that comes with a ton of additional work

          If anyone has recommendations for a scripter/coder that can write a script that allows me to insert links in my HTML sites through a remote dashboard then I'm all ears!
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  • Based from experience, not all SEO techniques can be applied to every site. I would still believe that effective SEO is still dependent on what's working for the site. And that is why there are a lot of advice, tips, and suggestions from this forum because members are only suggesting tips that worked for them. So no one can really determine a list of working and effective SEO. Yes a list can be useful but still effective SEO can just be effective when you do a trial and error and then see what happens next
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by affilorama-portal View Post

      Based from experience, not all SEO techniques can be applied to every site. I would still believe that effective SEO is still dependent on what's working for the site. And that is why there are a lot of advice, tips, and suggestions from this forum because members are only suggesting tips that worked for them. So no one can really determine a list of working and effective SEO. Yes a list can be useful but still effective SEO can just be effective when you do a trial and error and then see what happens next
      That has much more to do with the quality/structure of the money site then the type of backlinks.

      When I build money sites myself I never have problems getting it ranked, unless I mess up some times but then again it has to do with how the site has been setup and not the type of link building.

      I can send 100 high PR blog posts to you today and you might tank, I can send them to my own proven sites and they won't, so what's to blame, the links or the site?

      Some niches do seem to require different types of site but that has more to do with the competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author realspinner
    Now a day's SEO is becoming more tough & tough.
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  • Profile picture of the author nadabook143
    Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    Pretty weak post but then again, maybe I'm not the target demo and would never click thru to your guest post. Doesn't mean others aren't. At least you're trying.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Slin View Post

    I did write a blog about the same thing: 11 SEO Tactics That Could Destroy Your Website | (Note: I wrote the article but I don't own the website at all)

    What do you guys think? I think the number one problem around here is some weird kind of cling to outdated information.
    I checked it out and you know what's funny about this guest post? It's exactly written as how guys like Moz.com preach it, makes me wonder if it's written from the philosophy of the blogger / site owner or to please the authority sites in your niche and thus increase the chance of a link.

    Lately started a blog and most I blogged about grey hat techniques and some blackhat stuff as well, that obvious ain't gonna land me links from authority sites lol.

    But it's one hell of a tip, though so obvious that it's easy to over look. Visit the sites of the authorities, see what they preach and then kiss their ass big time
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    • Profile picture of the author Slin
      Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

      What qualifies you to make these statements?

      Who do you know well enough in the industrial spam game that as an outsider you would have even a vague idea of what is going on?

      Mind you, if it's some kid with 4 or 5 servers running xrumer then that's not a very credible source. Professional BH SEOs don't think about link building in the hundreds to thousands per minute but rather the tens of thousands per minute, per machine.

      Where do you think those links are generated at? Do you even have the slightest clue?

      And how much experience do you actually have in doing it?

      If you are going to try to position yourself as an authority on this then don't be shy with the details. Be aware though, you're already wrong. Industrial BH link spammers basically don't care where the links come from... It's all about link mass and acquisition rate, which is why most xrumer users don't really apply to the current industry. But none the less, I'll be happy to watch you put your foot in your mouth even further.
      Great question, well really all I can share are my experiences and my clients. Now Godoveryou I actually follow your website, and if I understand correctly you usually add in a few different tricks to get your xrumer spam to work, I could be wrong since I don't use xrumer, but if I understand correctly the things you do require more than "push button for 1,000 links" like most people think.

      We recently had a client come to us who has a budget of $50,000 a month, they're a decently large company. They got caught up in a penalty because their previous SEO firm had only built up spam link, so I started to do some backlink research.

      I found a lot of "blackhat" sites were ranking because they had spam links mixed in with PBN links pointing back to their site, there generally were a few 301s as well. I didn't find any sites that are ranking from pure forum and blog comment spam, but I could be wrong, in my experience though the people who come to me claiming that they need help because they aren't ranking are way too busy building spam links.

      Correct me if I'm wrong but in my experience the average guy looking at doing SEO here at the warrior forum isn't the kind of guy who will be dominating the SERPS using xrumer, I don't see the same types of results that I did back in 2009. Of course there are guys like you who use spam, but I always figured you used some sort of "twist" to change things up.

      Originally Posted by PotPieGirl View Post

      There are two main choices... play the people game or the play the algorithm game.

      Great content is awesome...but only if you get out there in front of people and people share it. Otherwise, you're playing the algorithm game...

      I don't think that has changed even a little bit over the years.
      Good point, finding out what the algorithm rewards is the tough part. Honestly I've found that providing good content is easier than trying to game the algorithm, but maybe that just means that I'm behind the curve when it comes to the algorithm.

      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      I checked it out and you know what's funny about this guest post? It's exactly written as how guys like Moz.com preach it, makes me wonder if it's written from the philosophy of the blogger / site owner or to please the authority sites in your niche and thus increase the chance of a link.

      Lately started a blog and most I blogged about grey hat techniques and some blackhat stuff as well, that obvious ain't gonna land me links from authority sites lol.

      But it's one hell of a tip, though so obvious that it's easy to over look. Visit the sites of the authorities, see what they preach and then kiss their ass big time
      Now you're learning

      But seriously, if you want the big links from the big guys talk about what they want to hear. I myself run a fitness website and I wanted to get links from some top sites. Right now Paleo is huge in that niche, and I'm not the biggest paleo fan, but I wrote an article all about paleo and bam! Instant powerful backlinks, you just need to play to your audience.
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      • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
        Originally Posted by slin

        Great question, well really all I can share are my experiences and my clients. Now Godoveryou I actually follow your website, and if I understand correctly you usually add in a few different tricks to get your xrumer spam to work, I could be wrong since I don't use xrumer, but if I understand correctly the things you do require more than "push button for 1,000 links" like most people think.

        We recently had a client come to us who has a budget of $50,000 a month, they're a decently large company. They got caught up in a penalty because their previous SEO firm had only built up spam link, so I started to do some backlink research.

        I found a lot of "blackhat" sites were ranking because they had spam links mixed in with PBN links pointing back to their site, there generally were a few 301s as well. I didn't find any sites that are ranking from pure forum and blog comment spam, but I could be wrong, in my experience though the people who come to me claiming that they need help because they aren't ranking are way too busy building spam links.

        Correct me if I'm wrong but in my experience the average guy looking at doing SEO here at the warrior forum isn't the kind of guy who will be dominating the SERPS using xrumer, I don't see the same types of results that I did back in 2009. Of course there are guys like you who use spam, but I always figured you used some sort of "twist" to change things up.
        Hey Slin,

        There are a few problems here and nothing that I really blame you for but they should be addressed.

        A) I have largely moved beyond Xrumer or other Windows-based software and onto Linux scripts as they are much faster in terms of link generation. Where as Xrumer might be able to hit 3k-4k links per minute with a good zlinks list, my linux-based scripts can hit nearly 20,000 links per minute (per machine) at this point. As hardware continues to improve, the rate continues to grow.

        So, if you don't mind let's not focus on Xrumer as I view it as purely something for the kiddies.

        B) Conclusions on what links the industrial segment is building purely on after-the-fact backlink analysis tools will never give you the full story, let alone a clear picture of what is going on.

        To understand where and how the industrial segment is moving you would need something like Google's crawler to get a clear picture. All of the other crawlers are too weak and far too limited to demonstrate how link spammers are working.

        Simply put, you can't base any conclusion on what these smaller, less accurate databases reflect - even when using multiple sources.

        We have spent years looking at ways to generate targets. There have been attempts to develop our own private crawlers for those targets but ultimately relying on Google's served results is still the superior course of action - which is why scraping still exists and actually continues to evolve.

        Again, this has also moved beyond windows applications on onto Linux-based solutions. Even Hrefer has gone the way of the dinosaur.

        Because of this evolution and nearly unlimited capital investment into private crawlers we know that looking at our industry (of linkspam) from a crawler perspective isn't at all effective.

        C) The average guy here, or other forums will never operate on an industrial scale.

        Therefore when you talk about 'Professional' BH SEO's you are talking about a very specific group of people.

        Because you were so specific about the group of people you were talking about it was very obvious that what you were saying was inaccurate.

        We don't care where the links come from whether it's a forum, blog comment, guestbook, chat box, BBS, etc. When operating at a level of 20k LPM, the only thing that matters is the link itself and whether Googlebot can crawl to find it.

        Take care,
        GOY
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      • Profile picture of the author ShutupAndEarn
        Originally Posted by Slin View Post

        We recently had a client come to us who has a budget of $50,000 a month, they're a decently large company.
        You have $50,000 a month clients yet you still do articles on Fiverr???
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        • Profile picture of the author Slin
          Originally Posted by mkg View Post

          By the way, looks like only i noticed it but this is funny to see



          when the article talks about stuffing keywords and over-optimization it should have just pointed to the top right side
          Yeah I'm not the owner of the site so I can't do anything about this, but if you click around you'll realize that the site isn't done yet. I think Keyur is just trying to test things out while he gets everything up and running.

          Originally Posted by ShutupAndEarn View Post

          You have $50,000 a month clients yet you still do articles on Fiverr???
          Haha good question, if you click on my fiverr link you'll notice that I am no longer writing articles on there. I really need to change my sig.
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          • Profile picture of the author Icematikx
            Originally Posted by Slin View Post

            Haha good question, if you click on my fiverr link you'll notice that I am no longer writing articles on there. I really need to change my sig.
            Yet you have 3 orders in the queue, and received your last feedback 21-hours ago. When did you quit? Today?
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            • Profile picture of the author Slin
              Originally Posted by Icematikx View Post

              Yet you have 3 orders in the queue, and received your last feedback 21-hours ago. When did you quit? Today?
              Those aren't written by me, but are instead written by old roomates who I hired to help them make some money over the summer. If you have skype I would love to talk to you about the SEO firm that I work for, however I don't bring up their name directly in this forum as I do not represent them nor their views.
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              • Profile picture of the author Icematikx
                Originally Posted by Slin View Post

                Those aren't written by me, but are instead written by old roomates who I hired to help them make some money over the summer. If you have skype I would love to talk to you about the SEO firm that I work for, however I don't bring up their name directly in this forum as I do not represent them nor their views.
                Go for it, my Skype is Icematiklol.
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        • Profile picture of the author raiko
          Originally Posted by ShutupAndEarn View Post

          You have $50,000 a month clients yet you still do articles on Fiverr???
          $50,000 total budget, of which $5 is headed his way through Fiver. : )
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  • Profile picture of the author mkg
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Rush
    I agree with you on the fact that web 2.0 and pbn links are what most seos are using right now to rank their websites, but I have still seen a few websites that have ranked purely with forum and comment spam. I personally don't use spammy backlinks on my money sites because it is way too risky.
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by Ryan Rush View Post

      I agree with you on the fact that web 2.0 and pbn links are what most seos are using right now to rank their websites, but I have still seen a few websites that have ranked purely with forum and comment spam. I personally don't use spammy backlinks on my money sites because it is way too risky.
      People use web 2.0's as buffer sites, hammer those with thousands/millions of forum/comment/blackhat spam as they can take the beating. You're out nothing if those disappear anyways. Pbn's are good on their own, though they can get expensive and can be unraveled and reported by your competition if not done right.
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

        Pbn's are good on their own, though they can get expensive and can be unraveled and reported by your competition if not done right.
        Unfortunately, even correctly done PBNs get hit by Google on daily basis.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bryan Harkins
    Sending thousands and thousands of spammy links is obviously going to harm your rankings in Google, especially on a brand new site. Personally, I think the main reason people have trouble ranking their sites is because they still don't understand how important link diversity is. I never have more than 20% of my backlinks have the anchor text of my main keyword.
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