Dont add sites to Google Webmaster Tools

by pfoaf
53 replies
  • SEO
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If you dont want to get a penalty to all your sites dont add them all the same Google Webmaster Tools account.

2 days ago i received a penalty on 2 large sites. ( it happent after i have added a second popunder ad, that was the only change but could be a coincidence).
the site was still present in google but traffic was down 90%.
I have removed the new ad and waited to see what happens, but today i received a manual penalty for "pure spam" on all the sites in my google webmaster tools.

Even domains that where parked for months received it.
The google empoyee gave a manual penalty for one of the sites and while it was there decided to give the penalty for all my sites.

One of the sites in the same niche and on the same server was not on the google webmster tools and its not penalized.

So if you want to protect your sites from penalties going to one to another just dont add them on the same google account.
#add #google #google webmaster tools #manual penalty #penalty #sites #tools #webmaster
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I guess the lesson here is don't add spammy sites to WMT.

    A pop under is obvious spam, even If that has nothing to do with your penalty.
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    • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I guess the lesson here is don't add spammy sites to WMT.
      Even better lesson... ignore WMT as we're doing for the last 6 years and you can be assured
      little bitch Google stop bothering you because it won't go after someone who care less if G.
      is around to begin.

      Same same goes for Analytics, just ignore them.



      fastreplies
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      • Profile picture of the author accessted
        Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

        Even better lesson... ignore WMT as we're doing for the last 6 years and you can be assured
        little bitch Google stop bothering you because it won't go after someone who care less if G.
        is around to begin.

        Same same goes for Analytics, just ignore them.



        fastreplies
        Few questions. Would it be ok to stop GWT and analytics? or once you enable them then they will keep record of you..

        Say if something happens to your site and you think you may be penalized or something. In GWT you may get a manual action. So if you are not connected to GWT how would you know that?
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        • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
          Originally Posted by accessted View Post

          Few questions. Would it be ok to stop GWT and analytics? or once you enable them then they will keep record of you..

          Say if something happens to your site and you think you may be penalized or something. In GWT you may get a manual action. So if you are not connected to GWT how would you know that?
          Without WMT and Analytics your site is one billion of faceless moms and paps sites Google simply
          will never bother to deal with, whereas it will kick your *ss if it knows where to find you and will and
          make you pay for being bad boy.

          Again, 6+ years ignoring G. and yet on page #1 in SERP for: best free web directories
          (look for AMRAY)
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  • Profile picture of the author origin
    I do not add any of my sites to GWT, spammy or not. It is just a doorway to get more info on your SEO activities. If you do SEO then you are violation Google's TOS. If you add any google code to your site you just give them access to more than they should have to.

    This is what I believe, true or not. I do not trust Google as far as I can throw a stick at them, especially any of their code anywhere close to any of my sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by origin View Post

      I do not add any of my sites to GWT, spammy or not. It is just a doorway to get more info on your SEO activities. If you do SEO then you are violation Google's TOS. If you add any google code to your site you just give them access to more than they should have to.

      This is what I believe, true or not. I do not trust Google as far as I can throw a stick at them, especially any of their code anywhere close to any of my sites.
      Adding a site to WMT is no big deal, it doesn't mean you'll stand a chance getting slapped in the SERPs. If the site is spammy, well that's a spam issue odds are it will be found sooner or later even without WMT.
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      • Profile picture of the author pfoaf
        yes, i will not add from now even google analytics.
        the google code dont affect the google penalty, but at least they wont know about the other sites you own.
        the thing is i avoided to add new sites GWT , but after getting the first penalty, i have added it there to see what was going on , and the next day it was hit but the manual penalty.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLondon
      Originally Posted by origin View Post

      I do not add any of my sites to GWT, spammy or not. It is just a doorway to get more info on your SEO activities. If you do SEO then you are violation Google's TOS. If you add any google code to your site you just give them access to more than they should have to.

      This is what I believe, true or not. I do not trust Google as far as I can throw a stick at them, especially any of their code anywhere close to any of my sites.
      That doesn't make any sense. That feature is there for a reason - to help webmasters put out good quality content faster so that Google can then take and bring to the users. Google wants to be first in indexing quality content over any other SE.

      Google is not NSA (although, maybe?..)
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TLondon View Post

        Google is not NSA (although, maybe?..)
        Google is one of the sources where NSA gets their data, at least that's what's been in the news over the last year.

        Google is a data source.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Very simple - don't use Google at all for anything, when you go on a first date do you tell a girl your life's story so she can run a mile instantly, that is what you do when you use Google Analytics, sitemaps, and all the other niceties they provided for you - means they don't have scurry around the internet finding it - you did all the hard work for them. This all comes from multi-national consultants who put sites first page next to the top retailers - organically - we use their hosting architecture which is derived from the same architecture companies like Saks and Vogue use - rapid indexing & ranking - like catnip to Google. They recommended not to use Google for anything 2-3yrs ago to us, funny how it has taken that long to affect the mainstream - all the other updates Google did in 2010/11 must be hitting the mass market about now as well then.

    We'll just give you an example as we already know people will jump on board with their "Google isn't out to get you comments". We saw a test site they implemented on first gen hosting to validate the hosting architecture ($2,100/mth) - now on second gen - new domain - no marketing (well a tweet every couple of days) - 30,000 products on Magento CE - off the shelf theme - same fashion products that the top retailers have with short tail keywords - no ppc - took a few weeks and 15,000 pages indexed on the site with first page Google ranking next to Amazon, eBay, Saks, Hugo Boss. Then they reduced the hosting clusters down, pages dropped off top ranking, put it back to the original - back to first page within a week or so. Cool.

    So people will say, $25K for hosting, that's stupid - but, most sites have 8% of revenue marketing budgets so if you can rank your pages with zero marketing then you only need $300,000 revenue to justify the cost and you get to rank next to the top retailers - organically - thereby avoiding the Google dance and minimising the impact of any Google updates. That is where it gets interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      Very simple - don't use Google at all for anything, when you go on a first date do you tell a girl your life's story so she can run a mile instantly, that is what you do when you use Google Analytics, sitemaps, and all the other niceties they provided for you - means they don't have scurry around the internet finding it - you did all the hard work for them. This all comes from multi-national consultants who put sites first page next to the top retailers - organically - we use their hosting architecture which is derived from the same architecture companies like Saks and Vogue use - rapid indexing & ranking - like catnip to Google. They recommended not to use Google for anything 2-3yrs ago to us, funny how it has taken that long to affect the mainstream - all the other updates Google did in 2010/11 must be hitting the mass market about now as well then.

      We'll just give you an example as we already know people will jump on board with their "Google isn't out to get you comments". We saw a test site they implemented on first gen hosting to validate the hosting architecture ($2,100/mth) - now on second gen - new domain - no marketing (well a tweet every couple of days) - 30,000 products on Magento CE - off the shelf theme - same fashion products that the top retailers have with short tail keywords - no ppc - took a few weeks and 15,000 pages indexed on the site with first page Google ranking next to Amazon, eBay, Saks, Hugo Boss. Then they reduced the hosting clusters down, pages dropped off top ranking, put it back to the original - back to first page within a week or so. Cool.

      So people will say, $25K for hosting, that's stupid - but, most sites have 8% of revenue marketing budgets so if you can rank your pages with zero marketing then you only need $300,000 revenue to justify the cost and you get to rank next to the top retailers - organically - thereby avoiding the Google dance and minimising the impact of any Google updates. That is where it gets interesting.
      This has happened many times than I can count; people complaining here and there about their sites getting slapped all at once. I only add a few of my sites to webmaster tools and sometimes for specific reasons like telling Google my site has moved, checking for manual penalties whenever I notice a drop, etc.

      Google hates off-page SEO. They want everyone to build sites, sprinkle keywords in their content, and let them decide what to rank high and what to sandbox without trying to influence it in any way apart from on-page SEO. Google is not your friend even though you make money off their traffic.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dr los3
        Webmaster tools is one of the best tools out there right now for web-ers.

        If you don't trust webmasters how can you trust other seo tools and what not...If you do not like google stop using their search engine.
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  • Profile picture of the author mkgg
    Originally Posted by pfoaf View Post

    If you dont want to get a penalty to all your sites dont add them all the same Google Webmaster Tools account.

    2 days ago i received a penalty on 2 large sites. ( it happent after i have added a second popunder ad, that was the only change but could be a coincidence).
    the site was still present in google but traffic was down 90%.
    I have removed the new ad and waited to see what happens, but today i received a manual penalty for "pure spam" on all the sites in my google webmaster tools.

    Even domains that where parked for months received it.
    The google empoyee gave a manual penalty for one of the sites and while it was there decided to give the penalty for all my sites.

    One of the sites in the same niche and on the same server was not on the google webmster tools and its not penalized.

    So if you want to protect your sites from penalties going to one to another just dont add them on the same google account.
    I thought it was obvious enough, if you are trying to game Google why would you provide them with info that makes it easy for them to punish you and take everything away from you.

    If its a manual penalty, those sites are pretty much a goner. Try a reconsideration request but it will probably take months and even then a long time to get them back up to where they were before. Good luck mate
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    • Profile picture of the author cjohnson33
      my website is showing up for certain keywords but not the main keyword itself and sometimes disappears what am i doing wrong and how can i prevent this from happening in the future because i really want to rank my site but its tough to keep up with when this keeps happening
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  • Profile picture of the author pfoaf
    serpyre, to hide your hosting, you can host your site at cloudflare and get their ips.
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  • Profile picture of the author vishwa
    There is nothing to do with penalties and web masters tools. your site get penalized even it is not listed in WHT. Don't always rely on Google Traffic. Make alternatives for traffic like social media, networking and various other methods. Always have a plan B with you.
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  • Profile picture of the author pfoaf
    vishwa , yes i didnt say you will not get a penalty if you dont add your site to the GWT,thats not the point here.
    but in my case my other sites ( even parked domains that where on my account where manually penalized ) because they where on the same account.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    @pfoaf - what are you talking about?
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  • Profile picture of the author pfoaf
    serpyre, when you host a website on cloudflare, you ip changes (US IP), and google dosent know where you are hosted.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by pfoaf View Post

      serpyre, when you host a website on cloudflare, you ip changes (US IP), and google dosent know where you are hosted.
      Google knows exactly where your pages are hosted. No webpage exist on the net without being hosted on a server.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    So Google will use CloudFlare as the basis with all the other numpty sites - which is worse as you will be running at Tier 7 Siteground levels - that's not including the latency to get the dynamic content, funny comment though - put a smile on our faces.
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  • Profile picture of the author pfoaf
    i dont quite understand what do you mean serpyre. cloudflare is used by very big sites and has a good repuation. google wont demote you based on hosting if you are hosted there. in the case you cant get a proper hosting.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      I have quite a few clients that are anxious to add their sites to webmasters.

      I always tell them it's no problem at all. Google already has all the data they need anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    @pfoaf - nothing related to yourself but education is rather painful at SME levels as their going in position is to use the exception to prove the rule - see this Website down from 19 -> 273!!!

    So just to clarify - 95-99% of CloudFlare will be at the Free and Pro levels, the rest will make up a tiny fraction. A large site will have other aspects to it that will mitigate CloudFlare usage, ultimately it is not smart as their architecture is flawed but there you go. It is a dillution effect, the larger the site normally the less the impact a stupid decision has, CloudFlare is a bolt on to a flawed architecture - and Google knows it - how using it impacts a site is site specific - however for the majority it will not 'overall' be positive.

    You are thinking direct, but Google works on an indirect basis, you can't see it or touch it or quantify it, but it's there. Anwyay, that's enough, we found out the other day SMEs have absolutely no idea how the big companies roll so there is no point anymore explaining it or what effect it has on them.
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    • Profile picture of the author mkgg
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      @pfoaf - nothing related to yourself but education is rather painful at SME levels as their going in position is to use the exception to prove the rule - see this Website down from 19 -> 273!!!

      So just to clarify - 95-99% of CloudFlare will be at the Free and Pro levels, the rest will make up a tiny fraction. A large site will have other aspects to it that will mitigate CloudFlare usage, ultimately it is not smart as their architecture is flawed but there you go. It is a dillution effect, the larger the site normally the less the impact a stupid decision has, CloudFlare is a bolt on to a flawed architecture - and Google knows it - how using it impacts a site is site specific - however for the majority it will not 'overall' be positive.

      You are thinking direct, but Google works on an indirect basis, you can't see it or touch it or quantify it, but it's there. Anwyay, that's enough, we found out the other day SMEs have absolutely no idea how the big companies roll so there is no point anymore explaining it or what effect it has on them.
      Nope it doesn't change anything. I have been using cloudflare (free) since day one, the only thing that has affected my rankings is backlinks, simple as that. Look at the list of sites here
      https://www.cloudflare.com/case-studies

      Do they look like crappy sites to you ? Nope, they are ranking top. That is just list of sites that came forward with their testimonials, there are far bigger sites using it.

      Hosting has nothing to do with rankings, unfortunately you are only going to waste your money buying expensive hosting in hopes of top rankings when you could spend that money on PBNs and other quality links which in fact rank.

      The big companies also spend a lot of budget on their marketing, don't you think that also factors into improving their rankings ?
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      • Profile picture of the author serpyre
        You seriously didn't read what we wrote - dilution, the wonders of SMEs and their exceptions to prove the rule - if Zopim & Pumpkin lady are the best they can come up with you're in trouble. The reference implementations from the consultants who provide us these details are Renault, L'Oreal, Samsonite. Looks like your definition of an enterprise is a little lower, but that would make sense. You know what, it is better for us you keep believing that - give it a year or two and it will become much clearer when the real enterprise companies and their consultants put the squeeze on the smaller SMEs forcing them down to niche with their CloudFlares & Siteground and endless amounts of creating backlinks to try to boost their rankings. Each to their own, however one fact - not understanding and/or not believing doesn't mean it doesn't exist - everyone thought they would drop of the face of the earth when they sailed to the horizon - until they found out the earth was round!
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        • Profile picture of the author damoncloudflare
          Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

          You seriously didn't read what we wrote - dilution, the wonders of SMEs and their exceptions to prove the rule - if Zopim & Pumpkin lady are the best they can come up with you're in trouble. The reference implementations from the consultants who provide us these details are Renault, L'Oreal, Samsonite. Looks like your definition of an enterprise is a little lower, but that would make sense. You know what, it is better for us you keep believing that - give it a year or two and it will become much clearer when the real enterprise companies and their consultants put the squeeze on the smaller SMEs forcing them down to niche with their CloudFlares & Siteground and endless amounts of creating backlinks to try to boost their rankings. Each to their own, however one fact - not understanding and/or not believing doesn't mean it doesn't exist - everyone thought they would drop of the face of the earth when they sailed to the horizon - until they found out the earth was round!
          Using CloudFlare is not going to impact SEO or SERPs. Search engines have special rules in place for sites using CDNs, and you are quite wrong about large sites not using us (4chan, Metallica, etc.).

          @yukon
          serpyre, when you host a website on cloudflare, you ip changes (US IP), and google dosent know where you are hosted.

          Where your site is actually hosted doesn't change. Our IPs will show because we're a reverse proxy for your site; we also use an Anycast network & looking up the IP alone doesn't reflect where the site is hosted (your site still resolves to the IP address in your DNS settings).
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by damoncloudflare View Post

            @yukon
            serpyre, when you host a website on cloudflare, you ip changes (US IP), and google dosent know where you are hosted.
            All Google has to do is a traceroute to follow the trail back to the server.
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            • Profile picture of the author paulgl
              Why don't you people just get off the internet, spare us your spammy sites
              to begin with.

              If you really are afraid of the big, bad, google, get offline. Millions have done it,
              opening up real businesses.

              I can't think of even a second that I cared about google being big brother.

              Yet, you people continue to shake in your boots, run, hide, and look for
              the invisibility cloak. Expecto Patronum!

              Paul
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              If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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              • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
                The discussion on Google seeing through reverse proxies is interesting... I'd like to see that go further.

                Without going too far into it and out'ing exactly what is going on (and what they are used for) reverse proxies scripts are used by the upper BH community for isolating and hiding certain things they do from Google. It would be interesting to see if it was all for not.

                Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

                Why don't you people just get off the internet, spare us your spammy sites to begin with.
                You know what money is, right? How is that not the obvious answer?

                Sure people could grind away on some domain and hope to make $100-$300 a day after a year or more (if they were lucky) - but why not make $300-$6,000 a day within weeks when you can?

                Maybe you work to "Improve the internet" or some other really noble cause. That's great. Some of us do what we do to make money and when it comes to that goal - the more the better is typically true - so why waste the time on some project that you could only hope might be successful.

                Originally Posted by Laubster View Post

                How is this even a thread. Everyone knows you don't connect money sites if you're doing aggressive link building to them. No analytics, no adsense, no WMT footprints, no WHOIS info. Thought we all knew this by now.
                Well, that's the first thing you've ever said on any forum at any point in time that I agree with.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    It's there so they can generate revenue, they generate 70% of that via Adwords, if you think they are your friend you are very naïve. So the trick is not to be their friend nor be their enemy - just be neutral - and that means avoiding the tools.

    The multi-national consultants we mentioned above just gave us this, we are 99% sure everyone will say - but that's impossible or I know an exception - this is how it is - like it - lump it - we don't care - but stop trying to annoy us when we are trying to help with information from the consultants that know how Google work - because in the medium to long term they will -always- be right - that is why they’re the multi-national enterprise architects with companies like Renault.

    Take your hosting amount $80/mth by 1% is $8,000/mth revenue by $127 per order is 63 orders per month by 2.5% conversion rate is 2,500 visitors per month at 100% of optimal -only- using Technical SEO no marketing or Business SEO - that is the baseline regardless of your sites conversion rates or average order size.

    Tier 1/2 Hosting will hit 80-95% of 2,500 (only available to the corporates - we use it)
    Tier 3/4 Hosting will hit 50-80% of 2,500 (Nexcess, Peer1)
    Tier 5/6 Hosting will hit 20-50% of 2,500 (Sonassi, SimpleHelix)
    Tier 7 Hosting will hit <20% of 2,500 (Siteground)

    The difference between those figures and your site is: the amount of Business SEO (time) you must spend to make up the difference either manually or via automation tools - which includes your non-income generating learning time; the number of products; whether you are national or international; your platform; conversion rate; and a few other factors. So if you are on Siteground at $20/mth you can expect $400 revenue and 125 visitors per month via Technical SEO if everything is 100% optimally balance, the rest is your effort and time.

    We can confirm the stats - two different sites that we calculated this are hitting it exactly: first at 80% on ~9,000 visitors per month no marketing or Business SEO (on Tier 1/2) - and another historic site on SimpleHelix hitting ~2,000 per month on $50/mth hosting (Tier 5/6) (750 visitors baseline) - the reason why it is almost triple the baseline - there were 8-10 language specific country stores for international sales - so it boosted visitors number 3 fold.

    That is why the enterprise companies use clusters and Tier 1/2 providers, they -only- need to put 5-20% of their effort in backlinks, press release & social media compared to SMEs who need to put in 80% effort. That is why enterprise companies have 5-10:1 revenue:effort models compared to SMEs who have 1:1 (if they are lucky these days) revenue:effort models. As the enterprises put the squeeze on SMEs that will move to 1:2 - meaning you need to create ever more backlinks - which you can't do - so you will be driven to ppc to generate the traffic. So full circle Google gets their revenue by being your 'friend'.

    It's as simple as that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Laubster
    How is this even a thread. Everyone knows you don't connect money sites if you're doing aggressive link building to them. No analytics, no adsense, no WMT footprints, no WHOIS info. Thought we all knew this by now.
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  • Profile picture of the author rajika4ever
    adding site to WMT is okay and it is totally worthy if you are in white hat path. but if you do spam and if you in black hat path you should worry about adding your site to WMT
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  • Profile picture of the author XenG
    It's good that I've read this thread. We are planning to build new sites and I intend, of course, to add them up to our Google webmaster tool account. It's a new learning to read everyone's comments above. I guess it's easier for Google to target what you are doing when you are giving them direct info. This is a saver right here. I won't do the same mistake. Thank God.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    It is up to everyone to make their own decisions and take the consequences of those on the chin. When you save time short term you are usually doing that at the expense of medium & long term - there is always a price. By giving Google the keys to your front door you are stating that you trust them implicitly - we don't - primarily because they make 70% of their revenue by Adwords so we are unable to determine with any clarity if that information is used against us being that they are a data mining company - regardless of whether it is malicious or by circumstance. But that is just our view and those of consultants working alongside Google at the top retailers. There is no black and white, only how much grey is too much for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author joshef
      If you are submitting your site to Google webmaster tool, it don't mean that you're the entire site will get penalized. If you will use black hat techniques or create spammy backlinks, then only Google will penalize your site.
      So stop using techniques which will make your site as a victim in the eyes of search engines.
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  • Profile picture of the author LiveChatSoftware
    Never thought of this.

    Ive now removed a lot of my sites from google estates.

    I certainly makes sense to do it now. I mean, You almost tell google what you are trying to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Then go and read post #24 and that is how you get them to come knocking at your door rather than giving them the key.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    CloudFlare is a hack for a decent architecture, sure you might have a handful of large sites, but when you get to enough volume you always have exceptions to publish - same for Shopify and all the other SME tools.

    ~25% of order traffic comes from organic, so you have to treat Google with respect and putting a CDN in front which is used by the mass market has one result - you are dumped in with the crowd - social media being ~1-2% of order traffic is not going to help you - no matter what the service providers say.

    So sure, CloudFlare works if you want to spend inordinate amounts of time trying to built up your visitor count and social profile manually instead of running the business - but that does not translate in to sales - in the end that is what it is all about. Ignoring Google who in effect control ~40% of you sales traffic is a pretty stupid thing to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      CloudFlare is a hack for a decent architecture, sure you might have a handful of large sites, but when you get to enough volume you always have exceptions to publish - same for Shopify and all the other SME tools.

      ~25% of order traffic comes from organic, so you have to treat Google with respect and putting a CDN in front which is used by the mass market has one result - you are dumped in with the crowd - social media being ~1-2% of order traffic is not going to help you - no matter what the service providers say.

      So sure, CloudFlare works if you want to spend inordinate amounts of time trying to built up your visitor count and social profile manually instead of running the business - but that does not translate in to sales - in the end that is what it is all about. Ignoring Google who in effect control ~40% of you sales traffic is a pretty stupid thing to do.
      I'm not saying I disagree with the spirit of your post, but there is a basic continuity problem here.

      None the less I'm going to have to go back and reread this whole thread again. Was there an alternate suggestion to CloudFlare for general purpose websites? I'm not asking this in a 'questioning' tone - more in a spirit as to what you would suggest as an ideal alternative?
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    No, that's a fair question, the ~40% is organic & ppc (Social Not a Big Help to Ecommerce - eMarketer), sure you also have providers such as Bing & AOL but that is getting in to semantics.

    For the suggestions, you can read this Providers. Basically these guys design tech architectures & rapid install sites that can rank sites up with Amazon & eBay without marketing. So the pricinple is choose hosting provider/architecture that suits you needs and includes a cdn service with it, ideally in a cluster. Something like MaxCDN and CloudFlare are in effect Tier 5/6 & Tier 7 (depending on how you look at it) addons - so you have to put in 5-10x more ranking effort. That decreases your visitor per $1 count as your time is money and you have to buy services to counteract lower quality neighbours using the same services.

    The corporates use Tier 1/2 tech generally (this is what we have access to) - it means you can generate 25-30 visitors per $1. Then you can go and read this (http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...ml#post9432398) - they did the same with business seo and you still come to the 25-30 visitors per $1. AWS used to be Tier 1/2 but are dropping as more mass market sites go online - but they are a start however you need a cluster architecture for it (with CloudFront) which you normally have to design yourself - https://twitter.com/SharedMagento/st...28109523398656.

    Basically whichever path you take you end up with the same end result - 1-30 visitors per $1 - and Google knows exactly how much traffic to send to you within this range to match your site content, performance, platform, profile. Sure you can burst visitors, but their algorithms will catch up and penalise you unless you revert to the mean.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryce
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      No, that's a fair question, the ~40% is organic & ppc (Social Not a Big Help to Ecommerce - eMarketer), sure you also have providers such as Bing & AOL but that is getting in to semantics.

      For the suggestions, you can read this Providers. Basically these guys design tech architectures & rapid install sites that can rank sites up with Amazon & eBay without marketing. So the pricinple is choose hosting provider/architecture that suits you needs and includes a cdn service with it, ideally in a cluster. Something like MaxCDN and CloudFlare are in effect Tier 5/6 & Tier 7 (depending on how you look at it) addons - so you have to put in 5-10x more ranking effort. That decreases your visitor per $1 count as your time is money and you have to buy services to counteract lower quality neighbours using the same services.

      The corporates use Tier 1/2 tech generally (this is what we have access to) - it means you can generate 25-30 visitors per $1. Then you can go and read this (http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...ml#post9432398) - they did the same with business seo and you still come to the 25-30 visitors per $1. AWS used to be Tier 1/2 but are dropping as more mass market sites go online - but they are a start however you need a cluster architecture for it (with CloudFront) which you normally have to design yourself - https://twitter.com/SharedMagento/st...28109523398656.

      Basically whichever path you take you end up with the same end result - 1-30 visitors per $1 - and Google knows exactly how much traffic to send to you within this range to match your site content, performance, platform, profile. Sure you can burst visitors, but their algorithms will catch up and penalise you unless you revert to the mean.
      Great knowledge!!

      Does it matter for a small ecommerce site say 300sku mostly to avoid GWT?

      What are the best alternatives to GWT for a SME?

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  • Profile picture of the author frogjy
    agreed, I have the same situation, google will manually punish your sites if they are all in one account.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
    It's easy for your sites to get dinged when you make it easy for Google to track you and your SEO activities by putting all your sites on the same Google Analytics and Webmaster Tools accounts.

    That said, sometimes it's inevitable because there are certain pieces of information you can only get through GWT and those hungry for that information would have no choice but to add their sites to their account.

    GWT and GA are remarkable and free SEM analysis tools, but are they worth the risk? Any answer given to that question would be purely subjective, so it's up to you to decide.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Sorry, but there are two sides to every story. Your bad experience with them does not mean that they are not to be trusted.
    Signature

    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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  • Profile picture of the author MskIM
    Wow. This thread makes me super nervous. I do use Google Analytics and webmaster tools on my site because I think the information is useful. However, I would like to know how you go about getting ranking on Google if you don't use any of these services? Thanks.
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    Constantly learning, die hard internet marketer.

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    • Profile picture of the author serpyre
      Originally Posted by MskIM View Post

      Wow. This thread makes me super nervous. I do use Google Analytics and webmaster tools on my site because I think the information is useful. However, I would like to know how you go about getting ranking on Google if you don't use any of these services? Thanks.
      You use social media posts to entice them to come to the site - and then you need to good content and all the ducks in a row. So back to the 1-30 visitors per $1 - how you get to it is up to you - small business is the low end - corporates the high end.

      If you don't have the architecture, content, quality, reliable providers, you have to do more work to entice Google. WMT & Analytics just makes it easy for them to ignore you and lower the rankings - our view is simple - why make it easy when you can use indirect 'emotional capital' so they go through your site - yes it's built in to algorithms and it's how the corporates do it and no we are not going to explain how it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author richmann
    Originally Posted by pfoaf View Post

    If you dont want to get a penalty to all your sites dont add them all the same Google Webmaster Tools account.

    2 days ago i received a penalty on 2 large sites. ( it happent after i have added a second popunder ad, that was the only change but could be a coincidence).
    the site was still present in google but traffic was down 90%.
    I have removed the new ad and waited to see what happens, but today i received a manual penalty for "pure spam" on all the sites in my google webmaster tools.

    Even domains that where parked for months received it.
    The google empoyee gave a manual penalty for one of the sites and while it was there decided to give the penalty for all my sites.

    One of the sites in the same niche and on the same server was not on the google webmster tools and its not penalized.

    So if you want to protect your sites from penalties going to one to another just dont add them on the same google account.
    Thanks for the heads up man, guess it's good to have a plan B, will keep Google Analytics and other related webmaster tools far from my sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author npoint
    It`s true, once you play hard with any of your websites added to GWT all your others will be checked by Google very carefully and if they see anything suspicious you can be sure the penalization will comes really fast. There are so many good tools, why people using GWT and giving everything about their projects away for free to them. If you are doing a lot of SEO related things especially if you are logged into your G account they can collect everyting about your activity, joining the dots is a matter of time only (((: People , don`t use GWT, if you have one website 100% white hat - OK, but not for several projects cos it`s asking for trouble.
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    • Profile picture of the author accessted
      Originally Posted by npoint View Post

      It`s true, once you play hard with any of your websites added to GWT all your others will be checked by Google very carefully and if they see anything suspicious you can be sure the penalization will comes really fast. There are so many good tools, why people using GWT and giving everything about their projects away for free to them. If you are doing a lot of SEO related things especially if you are logged into your G account they can collect everyting about your activity, joining the dots is a matter of time only (((: People , don`t use GWT, if you have one website 100% white hat - OK, but not for several projects cos it`s asking for trouble.

      So what do you suggest instead of GWT? and Analytics?

      Anything that can give you the same data? Like to make sure structured data/robots/indedx/crawl errors etc are working properly?
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      • Profile picture of the author Pdomain
        Banned
        Originally Posted by accessted View Post

        So what do you suggest instead of GWT? and Analytics?

        Anything that can give you the same data? Like to make sure structured data/robots/indedx/crawl errors etc are working properly?
        If you are doing all the things correctly, then you don't have to worry of these data/robots/indedx/crawl errors etc...


        Use StatCounter instead of Google Analytic....
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        Coming soon!

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        • Profile picture of the author serpyre
          Originally Posted by Pdomain View Post

          If you are doing all the things correctly, then you don't have to worry of these data/robots/indedx/crawl errors etc...
          Exactly - and Piwik for analytics.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pdomain
    Banned
    And what benefit do you get to add sites to WMT?

    I think there is no benefits to webmasters, but Google has more control to track your site..

    I will say don't use Google Analytic too...

    We shouldn't give much information about our site to Google to be safe....

    If Google has all the information, why it fails to detect the other sites which were listed in WMT? It explored later when one site is penalized....
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    Coming soon!

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