Google has been cracking down hard on Private Blog Networks

97 replies
  • SEO
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I know the first thought that comes to your mind regarding any crackdown on PBNs is whether they were used to link to a 'money site' or a tiered site. Think again. This recent crackdown is different. They're looking at site networking patterns. Looks pretty ugly. Just a heads up. (source link = not my site) PBN Sites De-Indexed, Manual Spam Actions on Money Sites

Anybody else seeing this? Care to share how your infrastructure is set up? Maybe there's a pattern there somewhere...
#blog #cracking #google #hard #networks #private
  • Profile picture of the author ewikk055
    ....Is it really a good idea to spell out how a successful private blog network is setup...on a public forum...maybe keeping that to private forums, or pm's would be a good call....cause I'm 100% sure google has forum lurkers at all major seo tactic forums (especially when greyhat/blackhat is being spat about)

    ..call me paranoid..
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    • Profile picture of the author seoharshwardhan
      Originally Posted by ewikk055 View Post

      ....Is it really a good idea to spell out how a successful private blog network is setup...on a public forum...maybe keeping that to private forums, or pm's would be a good call....cause I'm 100% sure google has forum lurkers at all major seo tactic forums (especially when greyhat/blackhat is being spat about)

      ..call me paranoid..
      Cant agree more...
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  • Profile picture of the author Torreylee
    Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

    I know the first thought that comes to your mind regarding any crackdown on PBNs is whether they were used to link to a 'money site' or a tiered site. Think again. This recent crackdown is different. They're looking at site networking patterns. Looks pretty ugly. Just a heads up. (source link = not my site) PBN Sites De-Indexed, Manual Spam Actions on Money Sites

    Anybody else seeing this? Care to share how your infrastructure is set up? Maybe there's a pattern there somewhere...
    The "P" in PBN stands for public. That tells you ALL you need to know.
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by Torreylee View Post

      The "P" in PBN stands for public. That tells you ALL you need to know.
      Hi Torrey, you might want to read the blog post. It deals with PRIVATE blog networks. Interestingly, not all of them are based on dropped domains with PR/DA.
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      • Profile picture of the author Torreylee
        Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        Hi Torrey, you might want to read the blog post. It deals with PRIVATE blog networks. Interestingly, not all of them are based on dropped domains with PR/DA.
        I just saw that, my bad. Interesting indeed.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by Torreylee View Post

      The "P" in PBN stands for public. That tells you ALL you need to know.
      Getting slapped all over...

      Knows zippo about nada.

      As many of you know, Google has started a massive wave of de-indexing of private blog networks. This appears to have started a couple weeks ago and hadn't affected NoHatDigital until approximately 36 hours ago.
      It's a trending topic, PBN at the moment. A lot of misinformation being sold and thrown around. Most people buy into it and drink the coolaid, ending up with networks of poisonous puke domains. The expired domain market is a finite thing, there is not enough to go around everyone. Sorry to break the news, but that's the truth.

      Half the crap in auctions these days have been churned out 3 or 4 times from past networks. The other 49.9% are buyloisvouttonoutlet types, spammed to hell and back. But someone has been buying them. All of them....

      The average Joe is numerically outgunned in every department by a factor of 1000, when it comes to buying up good networks. All that's left most of the time is average at best.

      The bad news is, it's going to get a lot worse as the trend grows.
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  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
    AHHH! So this is really funny.... And it might be sad.

    I visited your link to nohatdigital. Check it out, read it. Thought "Meh, okay." Answered a PM, grabbed a beer and then checked facebook. Got this ad:



    WHICH GOES TO:


    THAT HAS A TESTIMONIAL OF:


    I'll just let that sink in.

    Not that retargeting comes up much here....
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    • Profile picture of the author ronaldec
      Maybe this is a setup for a new product market. Is there anyone out there that does not sell a PBN service that has been affected.

      Something not right here......
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingDigital
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

      Oh god yes, I need your program in my life.
      No this was the re-targeting...

      Originally Posted by MarketingDigital View Post

      Brand New 2014 affiliate marketing for dummies With high converting.

      Want to start making well over 6 figures, like me? Guaranteed ClickBank Best Seller!
      You'll regret not trying the easiest method to make cash online. !

      Become an affiliate, And make money online

      Affiliate earns 75% commssion when they promote this product!
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  • Profile picture of the author aadi14
    PBN's are not dead for sure. Many PBN owner are quite happy so I don't think they are dead. And Google may be cracking down some PBN's because they might be doing something wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roopatg
      Originally Posted by aadi14 View Post

      PBN's are not dead for sure. Many PBN owner are quite happy so I don't think they are dead. And Google may be cracking down some PBN's because they might be doing something wrong.
      I agree with you, PBNs are not dead. but many PBN(private blog network) sites,that are used to manipulate their rankings. Google has been slowly rolling out an update on this, that deindexes a ton of PBNs.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Roopatg View Post

        I agree with you, PBNs are not dead. but many PBN(private blog network) sites,that are used to manipulate their rankings. Google has been slowly rolling out an update on this, that deindexes a ton of PBNs.
        Once again 95 percent of sites affected are on SEO hosts so that's asking for problems. I don't have any type of reason to think it's algorithm based.

        When I start to lose a huge batch of sites hosted on 70 different shared hosting plans I'll start to worry. Right now definitely not, it's just a repeating of what they always did but right now a much larger scale it seems.
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  • Profile picture of the author Action Man
    Hi interesting subject close to my heart.

    I suggest, us Warriors forget the old-hat seo strategies. How long does it take for us to realise the times have changed?

    SEO should be confined to building a site using Google's current recommendations.

    A great content value site will be ranked--a site that attempts to fool Google with auto back-links or anything else unnatural--will be slapped, simple as that. It appears Google wants a fair level playing field.

    If we do that for our clients yes--they might be high ranked in the first instance after a spider crawl.

    I know someone that works for them--the crawl will put a red flag on suspicious sites, for later investigation. That red flag will appear on some Google employees desk, perhaps months later, and anything could happen.

    Warrior WSO's are still selling stuff like, "how to get a thousand back-links and be ranked high in Google etc."

    Did you know doing that very thing-- might get Warriors slapped?

    Now as Warriors are currently one of the top IM forum sites in the world--where do you think that Google employee is going to start with his or her research?

    IM has to change, not the old style sales-funnels and back-links, but new rich business ideas, that are real and wholesome, and a good practical business. I don't think Google wants us to depend on them and our ranking for our business. We do our own marketing, offline and on, to build our own business.That might be hard work.

    If we happen to be high on Google? well that's just a secondary prize for having a great site...smiles

    Regards

    Jim

    p.s. perhaps we don't realise--selling seo tricks that are unnatural, might hurt our client eventually.

    No I don't work for Google
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

    I know the first thought that comes to your mind regarding any crackdown on PBNs is whether they were used to link to a 'money site' or a tiered site. Think again. This recent crackdown is different. They're looking at site networking patterns. Looks pretty ugly. Just a heads up. (source link = not my site) PBN Sites De-Indexed, Manual Spam Actions on Money Sites

    Anybody else seeing this? Care to share how your infrastructure is set up? Maybe there's a pattern there somewhere...
    I run 6 networks of 40 sites each besides my other network and once again the majority of deindexed sites are hosted on A-class SEO hosting (bit too late with moving the last batches).

    This go's pretty much against NoHat's observations that it has little to do with hosting.

    I do have to note that the domains on SEO hosting are my weakest domains, so maybe Google is more inclined to deindex weak domains vs strong domains.

    Another unimportant batch of domains that I hosted on another SEO host got affected quite bad as well, those domains were pretty weak as well and as I hosted them only recently as an experiment they contained very few content. So weak / thin domains at SEO hosting is asking for problems really.

    A more valuable / thick domain you should never even consider to host on SEO hosting.

    My legit PR3+ domains with plenty of content and hosted on shared hosting experienced a deindex rate of about 3-4 percent in the last 90 days so that's not too bad though much higher then what it used to be as previously it was like 2-3 percent in a year time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Bleh

      And a final interesting one is that the bulk of our sites that got de-indexed where domains purchased at auction or that were only recently launched (within the past 2 months). In fact, ALL of our sites that we had purchased at auction within the last 3 months or so were impacted.
      What the above appears to indicate at this early stage is that the de-indexation isn’t solely caused by a manual infiltration or link based algorithm. It’s most likely to have strong algorithmic component, and must have to do with one of the following:
      • On-page (content, to dissimilar to former content before drop, or too little content)
      • Hosting
      • Date of drop/age
      • Registrant/WHOIS information
      After a brief analysis by resident Data Expert Lynn, we have ruled out drop / age as well as host. We are still looking into the matter, but feel it’s most likely from registrar / WHOIS info.
      They seem to be bending backwards to avoid other options. One which is pretty likely to happen at some point comes to mind on reading the above quote --

      Google can monitor auctions just like register compass can. Doesn't take much to monitor auction data over the last few months and then cross check the sites that get set up that look and link like PBNs. Doesn't need to take anything to do with registry information or I presume they are suggesting - seeing past whois privacy.

      Part of the problem when service providers get slapped is that they have a vested interest in coming up with something that doesn't reflect badly on them. Natural tendency that I would be tempted to lean to myself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        I run 6 networks of 40 sites each besides my other network and once again the majority of deindexed sites are hosted on A-class SEO hosting (bit too late with moving the last batches).

        This go's pretty much against NoHat's observations that it has little to do with hosting.
        hosting has an obvious huge part to do with it. HUGE. I rarely see deindexing on my networks but a customer alerted to me on one that was new and had barely been setup. Only thing I could trace it and a few other to was hosting (on shared hosting not SEO hosting but I guess even shared hosting can get junkie if its a well known but affordable host.)
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          hosting has an obvious huge part to do with it. HUGE. I rarely see deindexing on my networks but a customer alerted to me on one that was new and had barely been setup. Only thing I could trace it and a few other to was hosting (on shared hosting not SEO hosting but I guess even shared hosting can get junkie if its a well known but affordable host.)
          Yes it's the number one factor and in an attempt to avoid SEO hosting people suggest to use cheap reseller hosts like IdeaStack, Hostnine and IX web hosting. Which have all been attacked by Google in the past 3-12 months but most are not aware of that.

          I also find it funny that NoHat didn't even mention anything about OBL patterns on those network sites. Another huge killer. I can't even remember the amount of times I read a sales thread that offers links at like 20, 50, 100 sites to the exact same set of mostly 40 customers/sites and those threads always ended with a massive deindexation.

          Still people manage to deny that has anything to do with it lol.

          Moving the remaining 55 out of 80 domains from Skynet A-class now, surprisingly that hosting never got affected in the last 2 years up until about 2 months ago. That's why I stuck with them for so long.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Yes it's the number one factor and in an attempt to avoid SEO hosting people suggest to use cheap reseller hosts like IdeaStack, Hostnine and IX web hosting. .
            Lets be straight here. What does Google care if a small site on a cheap host gets slapped wrongly for being on the wrong box? You probably need to have some higher rep sites and companies in your server neighborhood. Google going to go after all the sites hosted on Amazon or Azure with some up and coming and established sites sharing the space?

            I might just go mostly enterprise level cloud. Much better neighborhood. Will have to wean myself away from Cpanel cheaper hosts.

            Still just did an index check on a few hundred domains and I don't see this extra hard crack down. These are some pretty crappy ones in terms of content too and they are mostly fine outside of that one server and even there its not across the board.

            Staying small has its advantages. No bullseye or red sniper light on your chest.
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            • Profile picture of the author Icematikx
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              I might just go mostly enterprise level cloud. Much better neighborhood. Will have to wean myself away from Cpanel cheaper hosts.
              You know... After suffering a takedown of 40-50 domains.. All of which were authoritative by any means, I think I'm going to take another approach to it all.

              The traditional "PBN" is a site which links out to dozens of money sites - and that's the model that I used.

              Would it be so bad to repurpose an expired domain, and build it relevant to the niche of your money site, and solely link to that money site? I assume you would need less links overall, due to the mega relevance of the content and the site linking in to your money site.

              Make it look like a real site. Hide links in-content, not sidebar wide or anything. A nice homepage link on a PR5 repurposed domain that is SPECIFIC to your money site's niche. Heck, even build the PBN site as a MONEY SITE and wack up Adsense.

              It's something I'm going to consider. Why am I using PR5/PR6 domains to link out to my money sites in a crap fashion, when I can build them as money sites, bank with Adsense and drop a link to my relevent money sites.

              For example, one "Kitchen" focused website could link out to 4-5 of my Amazon sites - so it isn't strictly limited to one site either.

              ALSO, to further boast your point.. Since this site would be made to BANK some cash, it would be worthwhile to stick up cloud hosting on big hosts like Site5.
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              • Profile picture of the author AmanD
                Originally Posted by Icematikx View Post

                You know... After suffering a takedown of 40-50 domains.. All of which were authoritative by any means, I think I'm going to take another approach to it all.

                The traditional "PBN" is a site which links out to dozens of money sites - and that's the model that I used.

                Would it be so bad to repurpose an expired domain, and build it relevant to the niche of your money site, and solely link to that money site? I assume you would need less links overall, due to the mega relevance of the content and the site linking in to your money site.

                Make it look like a real site. Hide links in-content, not sidebar wide or anything. A nice homepage link on a PR5 repurposed domain that is SPECIFIC to your money site's niche. Heck, even build the PBN site as a MONEY SITE and wack up Adsense.

                It's something I'm going to consider. Why am I using PR5/PR6 domains to link out to my money sites in a crap fashion, when I can build them as money sites, bank with Adsense and drop a link to my relevent money sites.

                For example, one "Kitchen" focused website could link out to 4-5 of my Amazon sites - so it isn't strictly limited to one site either.

                ALSO, to further boast your point.. Since this site would be made to BANK some cash, it would be worthwhile to stick up cloud hosting on big hosts like Site5.

                Yes, this is the way you need to do it for long term survival. Make them proper sites.
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Lets be straight here. What does Google care if a small site on a cheap host gets slapped wrongly for being on the wrong box? You probably need to have some higher rep sites and companies in your server neighborhood. Google going to go after all the sites hosted on Amazon or Azure with some up and coming and established sites sharing the space?

              I might just go mostly enterprise level cloud. Much better neighborhood. Will have to wean myself away from Cpanel cheaper hosts.

              Still just did an index check on a few hundred domains and I don't see this extra hard crack down. These are some pretty crappy ones in terms of content too and they are mostly fine outside of that one server and even there its not across the board.

              Staying small has its advantages. No bullseye or red sniper light on your chest.
              I think there is more to it then just hosting, SEO hosting and reseller hostings are easy targets for Google so obvious they attack that. Shared hosting plans are a bit harder as it concerns way more IP's and a lower amount of PBN type of sites though the majority are probably personal blogs and smallish sites so yeah they would care less.

              It makes no sense that just 1 site on a certain shared host gets deindexed while there are 4-6 sites that are setup almost identical on that very same host / IP so maybe Google has become a little more active with disavow reports and if a certain site gets flagged let's say 4 times that they take action on that particular site. That could explain the complete randomness of deindexations on shared hosts for me. Or maybe a certain client got reported multiple times that was responsible for the few deindexations on those hosts.

              Cloud VPS hosting easily ends up at $25/month per host, that's $300/year per host.

              I got about 70 shared hosting accounts that cost me about $5k/year, on VPS cloud that would cost me $21k. For those $16k I can buy a lot of domains and if the deindexation happens at the same low rate as now then the costs of that are much lower then the additional costs for hosting.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                I think there is more to it then just hosting,
                Yeah just like with the algo its always a mix of things

                Cloud VPS hosting easily ends up at $25/month per host, that's $300/year per host.
                [/QUOTE]

                Not VPS just websites. Quite a bit lower than that for just websites

                Azure Pricing Calculator

                Digital ocean even less

                https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing...FWoR7AodGyIAig

                I am not saying I'll put everything on those but yeah I wouldn't mind putting my more expensive domains in a hosting environment with large ventures whatever that is.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          ...even shared hosting can get junkie if its a well known but affordable host.)
          Just because a host is shared doesn't qualify it as junk.


          ************************************************** *****


          These guys talking about SEO hosting are literally searching for a shitty host because anyone with half a brain wouldn't be advertising their servers to have anything to do with SEO. It's a sales pitch like the fools selling edu/gov WSOs, newbies see the word SEO & figure it's got to be good enough to rank a page so they whip out the credit card.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Just because a host is shared doesn't qualify it as junk.
            Never said anywhere it did so I don't know what you were reading. However I don't know too many large ventures/companies running their sites on $5.95 per month hosting.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Never said anywhere it did so I don't know what you were reading. However I don't know too many large ventures/companies running their sites on $5.95 per month hosting.
              That's fine If your running Facebook, BestBuy, Apple, etc.. but the majority of sites on the web don't need dedicated servers.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                That's fine If your running Facebook, BestBuy, Apple, etc.. but the majority of sites on the web don't need dedicated servers.

                Dude you miss the point entirely. Whose more likely to have a bunch of crappy sites on a server? Azure or $5 a month host? Which one is Google more likely to nuke based on IP not caring about getting a few legit sites in the cross hairs?

                P.S. I'd think all of the sites you listed run their own server farms so the examples don't even work for what we are talking about
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  Dude you miss the point entirely. Whose more likely to have a bunch of crappy sites on a server? Azure or $5 a month host? Which one is Google more likely to nuke based on IP not caring about getting a few legit sites in the cross hairs?

                  P.S. I'd think all of the sites you listed run their own server farms so the examples don't even work for what we are talking about
                  Still not buying it until you can prove shared hosting tanks a legit site.

                  All my sites have been on shared hosting for years, I've never lost any sleep over it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author deezn
                    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                    Still not buying it until you can prove shared hosting tanks a legit site.

                    All my sites have been on shared hosting for years, I've never lost any sleep over it.
                    I believe what he's saying is, the shared hosting by itself isn't going to tank your site by itself. But if you're unlucky, you may end up on a box with a bunch of bad sites and get taken down by it.

                    The chances of having bad sites as neighbors on more expensive boxes is less.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by deezn View Post

                      I believe what he's saying is, the shared hosting by itself isn't going to tank your site by itself. But if you're unlucky, you may end up on a box with a bunch of bad sites and get taken down by it.

                      The chances of having bad sites as neighbors on more expensive boxes is less.
                      Thank you Deez. I thought I made it perfectly clear to any intelligent person who wanted to understand and you have proven I did. If you go to one of those sites where it shows you the other sites on the IP you will see a MARKED difference between the kinds of sites on cheap $5 hosting and premium hosts or clouds like Azure.

                      Google has proven in many ways they don't give a fig newton taking out a few small business and internet marketing businesses who may have done nothing wrong if it helps them fight SE manipulation. If they deindex a site that didn't deserve it it has no down side if its one of those sites but if they take out say Searchengineland, a well known blogger, a new and upcoming startup then they get much more bad press and push back.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ecdavis
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Google has proven in many ways they don't give a fig newton taking out a few small business and internet marketing businesses who may have done nothing wrong if it helps them fight SE manipulation. If they deindex a site that didn't deserve it it has no down side if its one of those sites but if they take out say Searchengineland, a well known blogger, a new and upcoming startup then they get much more bad press and push back.
                        This is a rough one. Google is under no significant pressure to be fair and appears content to let the "collateral damage" sort itself out in the aftermath. I suppose the crackdown on PBNs was predictable but saying that is a little like predicting rain sometime in the future. Anyone playing outside is bound to get at least a little wet at some point. As it is, it is increasingly more difficult for small to mid-sized players to do anything other than play by Google's book. The trouble, though, if you take an extreme, straight-arrow approach, you pretty much doom your site to obscurity. However, the truly big players can write off the loss as the cost of doing business. In this case, I didn't get caught out because I opted not to play. It was/is simply to much time and trouble to build my own PBNs and I'm too suspicious to trust my sites to someone I don't know. So, I didn't lose, but nor did I win. I imagine that big players using gray-black strategies already plan for obsolescence--everyone else seriously counting on organic search traffic, going forward, will probably want to factor in the risk the de-indexation if not currently doing so. De-indexation--sadly--seems as inevitable as weather change . . . And staying ahead of the curve is way too labor intensive.

                        Evan
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by ecdavis View Post

                          . In this case, I didn't get caught out because I opted not to play. It was/is simply to much time and trouble to build my own PBNs... And staying ahead of the curve is way too labor intensive.

                          Evan
                          With an attitude like that you are losing/caught out every day.
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                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by deezn View Post

                      I believe what he's saying is, the shared hosting by itself isn't going to tank your site by itself. But if you're unlucky, you may end up on a box with a bunch of bad sites and get taken down by it.

                      The chances of having bad sites as neighbors on more expensive boxes is less.
                      So basically I need to be buying lottery tickets because I'm on a WINNING streak with shared hosting.

                      Still not buying it... then again I'm not buying crappy host that advertise SEO hosting (dedicated or shared).
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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    Google have been attacking different types of links one after the other. PBN's seem to be the focus now. It is like one of the last few remaining forts left for SEO'ers after all the other forts fell one after another.
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  • 1.Keeping a spreadsheet of what expired domains are linking to which money site can be time consuming
    2. Managing dozens of hosting accounts is annoying
    3.Domains should really be registered in different names to lessen footprint
    4.Setting up an expired domain is very time consuming – its like creating a real site! Install wordpress, themes, plugins, about page, logo or header, and more…all before you even post content. I had to do this 30 times before I even got started! (I didn’t make it through all 30 domains by the way…)
    5.A quality network should have real content that is both relevant to the expired domain AND the site you are linking to…means you need original content.
    6.Once you have a great network, then you need to go build your niche sites!
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  • Profile picture of the author bodmov
    I don't use private blog networks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    I don't buy links, and when I exchange links, I take care to get a no-follow link 50% of the time. I get plenty of other do-follow links from content marketing, so I'm not too worried about those.
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    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dr los3
    Dat advertisement though.
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    • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
      Originally Posted by Dr los3 View Post

      Dat advertisement though.
      You sir are very hard to read. You switch from funny subtle troll to genuinely seeming like a newbie (which also could be a part of the funny, subtle trolling)....

      It's the 3 that really throws me... Still playing poker?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dr los3
        Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

        You sir are very hard to read. You switch from funny subtle troll to genuinely seeming like a newbie (which also could be a part of the funny, subtle trolling)....

        It's the 3 that really throws me... Still playing poker?
        Im a complete newbie. Ill let you know when i reach the tipping point.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOWizard417
    The network in question from OP is a network that sold links publicly, Rank Hero. I'm thinking some of their personal networks were also hit due to using rank hero in combination with other networks and using same hosting and strategy as Rank hero networks.

    Nohatdigital also mentions using the same whois information without privacy, could be a major factor as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SEOWizard417 View Post

      The network in question from OP is a network that sold links publicly, Rank Hero. I'm thinking some of their personal networks were also hit due to using rank hero in combination with other networks and using same hosting and strategy as Rank hero networks.

      Nohatdigital also mentions using the same whois information without privacy, could be a major factor as well.
      Oh yeah RankHero, that heavily over priced service where you (used to) pay almost $40 or more for a single post at one of their network sites that they've probably picked up for $10,- with Hayden's domain sourcing method. What a failure. See they ain't accepting new customers anymore.

      They didn't explicitely state that they didn't use private whois from what I've read but they did say they suspect whois data to be the cause of it. What I think they mean is that when the domain gets transferred to them that the whois isn't active for a short while and that Google might track that. Cause I really can't imagine they'd be so silly to leave privacy off for the whole time.

      Nice link: http://www.nichepursuits.com/alright...etworks-again/

      Funny opinion:

      Pat Flyn: "I don’t know if this is a new algorithmic update, but that seems to be the most logical change."

      Want to hear my opinion?

      Almost a year ago or more there was an EMD update, which in fact focussed on smallish sites, Google had a good way to detect them. Now it seems Google is using that technique to pick out smallish PBN sites. As niche relevant is higher on the ladder these days it seems many people setup their private blog network sites like that, laser focused on one specific topic so in fact they look like a typical EMD site but then without the monetization. Google let's their slightly adjusted EMD update technique loose on it that doesn't tank but directly deindexes sites and there you go. Massive amounts of sites out of the equation. Add some other footprints like hosting and OBL patterns and there you go.

      Does make me wonder, I ain't doing things perfect but my sites have a huge range of outbound links to tons of different topics and tons of posts due to the nature of my service where we place perm homepage links as well as roll off posts. Often people have something to nag about it cause it looks so unnatural and I obvious can't deny that, eg: it would never survive a manual review. But it does help hugely in avoiding footprints that are automatically detected by the algorithm, afterall I only lost few sites and the network where I lost a considerable percentage was all based on SEO hosting so easy to blame it on that when you look at the numbers.

      Can't imagine the people behind RankHero would've used SEO hosting though, it seems there is plenty of budget available but somehow they never talk about hosting in any of their posts. Would they really've made such noob mistake?
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  • Profile picture of the author CollegeCEO
    The number one reason I never set up my own PBN was because there was way too much involved in it to setup properly. Now with this, it's going to become even more expensive and time consuming to setup and manage. Personally:
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by CollegeCEO View Post

      The number one reason I never set up my own PBN was because there was way too much involved in it to setup properly. Now with this, it's going to become even more expensive and time consuming to setup and manage.
      Yeah I get that.

      If I didn't build a network for my service I might've chosen the path of link outreach as well, sounds like less work to be honest.

      For IM'ers that outsource it's often hard to turn a profit with affiliate sites as the costs are quite a bit higher so you really need to know the ins and outs or you'll probably break-even at best. I have few IM clients btw, but the ones I have do scale and have many campaigns with me. For the rest it's mostly real (small) businesses that easily turn a profit as the costs are so low, they don't have time to either setup a network and often their niche isn't very suitable for link outreach so then there's not much choice really.

      As for risk, well a money site is easily replaced and the old one can easily run besides it for existing customers so I don't see the risk as a huge thing. Afterall, not ranking is no new customers either so nothing lost really.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Now with this, it's going to become even more expensive and time consuming to setup and manage.
      Now with what????

      Seriously. What's new? Whats changed? Was RankHero bigger than BMR? So the people behind another big "rent space on my PUBLIC blog network" got targeted and a few people who write things like this as well

      The traditional "PBN" is a site which links out to dozens of money sites - and that's the model that I used........Why am I using PR5/PR6 domains to link out to my money sites in a crap fashion, when I can build them as money sites, bank with Adsense and drop a link to my relevent money sites.
      Its an admission that what crap fashion linking and content we all know might get you in trouble well...um.....gets us in trouble. This is just like when autobot link spammer get their sites slapped and then cry "SEO is dead The sky is falling" simply because they got slapped doing what they knew they might be slapped doing.

      Meanwhile with all the PBN owners I know I don't hear many of them crying. Of course none of them are big renters of links that people know the name of their service because they are well kown for renting out links. They Put the word PRIVATE back in PBN.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        It bears repeating again. No big PBN link provider is going to do anything when they get slapped but tell people it was due to some unknown before reason. Anything else makes them look bad and gives their rep a hit.

        I'm not saying Nohat is making something up but its human nature to not to want to look at the things you might have done wrong. It aint nice looking in that mirror so we want it to be things outside of our control. From a business perspective it gives us more sympathy........ and less refund demands
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  • Profile picture of the author AmanD
    It was only a matter of time before Google started to get more serious about dealing with blog networks. So if this is the start of a serious effort it wouldn't surprise me.

    It wouldn't take much effort at all for Google to wipe out the networks of all the providers advertising their 'Private' blog networks for public sale. As well as all the networks propping sites up in competitive niches. Most blog networks are very obvious.

    It would probably take one Google employee about a day to take down all the networks that are advertised for sale in this forum, and forums like BBHF, BHW, WF etc.

    That alone will cause enough reverberations to put off the majority of people from buying these services, and make it a far more costly venture for everyone concerned. A lot of people would be priced out.

    It was always going to end this way. If not now, then it's coming soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmanD
    Another thing, everyone and his dog seems to be jumping on the 'teach all the newbies how to build a PBN to rank their sites' recently

    You know the end of the craze can't be far off when that happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOWizard417
    Just Google creating more fear in SEOs, don't buy into the hype. I keep reading about a PBN algo, but I still see and know of plenty of networks alive and kicking.
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  • Profile picture of the author accessted
    So in essence is it NOT good to try and block robots?
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  • Profile picture of the author tech84
    https://www.seroundtable.com/google-...rks-19196.html

    I think they're doing this before launching Penguin 2.0 because it wont be able to algorithmically weed out well built PBNs.

    And maybe they're doing this to scare people away from building PBNs....
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  • Profile picture of the author macy25
    I have seen many sites which are slapped by Google all got links from PBN but Many of Sites not slapped from goggle which got the links from PBN site But i think the reason behind that most of PBN Sites Add Too many sites in the blogroll But which are not slapped they add only one or two site in blogroll
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    • Profile picture of the author GodOfSEOCo
      Originally Posted by Paul Schlegel View Post

      Great post on the PBN deindexation at GodOfSeo here:
      Blog Networks, Ban Hammers & A Whole Lot of Fear
      Thanks for the link out.

      Happy to answer any questions anyone has on my post or PBNs in general - Within reason, of course

      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Probably the best post on it I have seen and mostly because it skips the hype and sky is falling junk.
      Thanks, that's what I aim to do!
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      • Profile picture of the author jakal2001
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
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          • Profile picture of the author acisni
            So there could be many factors at work - we all know there are many ways Google can get to a PBN.
            Don't over think the problems at Nohat / Rankhero - they have apparently come clean with posts and video/podcast talking about it - but skirt around certain facts. I used a very private version of one of their rankhero networks. (they have several - the public one you could buy links from and ones used for interns and seo clients).
            I was on the intern version and had some access to the public one. The public one is no mystery - just google pbn links! Public Blog Network - duh.
            All I had to do to find the private intern network problem was look up whois data for 1 site. It shows the name address and gmail in the name of their main Blogger/guru. I quickly found over 200 sites linked in some way to GN (think about it). Probably were more but I got bored. All very clearly were registered to his gmail (his real name) - some to a slight variation and some to a family trust in his name. Took under 5 minutes. Quality.
            Now, on to hosting - reckon he signed up for hosting using same email addresses? Money sites - used for testing and for interns in partnership, yep same gmail.
            No mystery. If you are forming theories about the great de-indexing update, exclude any results from Nohat / rankhero. Oh and by the way Spencer at Nichepursuits - soon to be white hat pursuits was the other partner in rankhero.
            Gurus gurus everywhere!
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnnyPlan
    Unless I'm reading this article wrong (on the link in OP), the site(s) were being targeted for thin content, which can actually happen to any site, not just one in a private blog network. If this nohatdigital is the real deal of SEO, why aren't they just hiring professional writers instead of relying on low paid interns to run PBN's for paying clients? There's real money involved right? Or, are these PBN's being used to rank nohatdigital? Either way, that site will likely suffer in one way or another due to bad content on sites linking to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Talent
    All mine are good...
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    • Profile picture of the author iamrichard2
      Stay away from SEO hosts and cheap hosts. Get "normal" hosting like hostgator and Godaddy for your PBNs.
      Don't use spun content. Link out to a few authority sites (edu/gov/cnn). Interlink your site.

      With these simple techniques, changes of de-indexing is greatly reduced.

      I only had one PBN de-indexed recently and it was a PR 6 TF 37. Reason was the cheap host even though this site was on a dedicated IP.

      Check out SiteWink to help Manage your PBN http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors...ewink-com.html
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOWizard417
    More fear mongering by Google and people are eating it up. Keep hearing about this mass reindexing but only really reading about a few major pbn sellers getting shut down. They sold publicly, it was bound to happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by SEOWizard417 View Post

      More fear mongering by Google and people are eating it up. Keep hearing about this mass reindexing but only really reading about a few major pbn sellers getting shut down. They sold publicly, it was bound to happen.
      That's assuming they got their seed data from BH sites and BH ads. Dropped domains appear on the radar, bro. It's not very hard to figure out if a domain dropped. That's a MASSIVE RED FLAG.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        That's assuming they got their seed data from BH sites and BH ads. Dropped domains appear on the radar, bro. It's not very hard to figure out if a domain dropped. That's a MASSIVE RED FLAG.

        I use to believe this and I don't deny its a possible red flag but just not as massive as people used to think. The net is filled with legit sites that were reregistered after expiring. Truth is even if the site goes in an auction and doesn't drop you can take one look at the whois history and tell it changed hands by looking at the nameserver history. auction domains switch to the rgistrar first and then to a new nameserver that wasn't used before. YOu can even tell by the date it changed.

        Frankly having your domain show at an auction site might be an even bigger red flag going forward. Google knows thats where most PBN owners buy their PR domains because the market is still stuck on PR (even though its getting more worthless as each month goes by with no update).
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Waller
    Google will almost certainly scare some people away from the PBN tactic with this crackdown but I haven't yet seen anything to indicate that it is a completely algorithmic change.

    My guess is that certain features or footprints raise red flags and then sites are checked manually if enough flags are raised. I doubt many/any network has survived completely unscathed but the difference between some people suffering a 5% loss and others suffering an 50%, 60%, 70% loss is not a trivial one.

    There are probably reasons for such huge differences and it is up to you whether you work out / find out what these differences are and then adjust your approach accordingly.

    Much of it, in my eyes, will come down to how well you monetize your rankings and traffic once you get them. If you're good at it, you can re-invest in making your current network sites resemble real sites and build out more sites to diversify risk.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steve Waller View Post

      My guess is that certain features or footprints raise red flags and then sites are checked manually if enough flags are raised. I doubt many/any network has survived completely unscathed but the difference between some people suffering a 5% loss and others suffering an 50%, 60%, 70% loss is not a trivial one.
      From what I see across several networks the only difference between 5 and 50 percent is SEO hosting.

      I don't know how RankHero hosted their network, to bad they don't give out any info about that, which is for me already a reason to believe they didn't care much about that.
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    • Profile picture of the author AmanD
      Originally Posted by Steve Waller View Post

      Google will almost certainly scare some people away from the PBN tactic with this crackdown but I haven't yet seen anything to indicate that it is a completely algorithmic change.
      .

      Not yet, but it's in the pipeline.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by AmanD View Post

        Not yet, but it's in the pipeline.
        That is one thing I agree with. They will eventually have an algorithm that hits PBNs. They won't get the truly private networks that way, but the majority of networks are extremely easy to identify.

        Heck, I've unraveled networks of some of the popular backlink providers in the WSO section of this forum with just Scrapebox, Ahrefs, and 45 minutes with nothing else to do.

        Google has much more powerful tools than Scrapebox and Ahrefs.
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        • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          That is one thing I agree with. They will eventually have an algorithm that hits PBNs. They won't get the truly private networks that way, but the majority of networks are extremely easy to identify.

          Heck, I've unraveled networks of some of the popular backlink providers in the WSO section of this forum with just Scrapebox, Ahrefs, and 45 minutes with nothing else to do.

          Google has much more powerful tools than Scrapebox and Ahrefs.
          I agree with this as well. Some bloggers are suspecting that there is an algorithmic component to this crackdown and I have no reason not to think the same. I guess they've been working on this for a long time and that's why it took them 2 years to come down on PBN sellers and sites using them after the 2012 deindexing happened.

          It's in the pipeline. PBN owners will either have to adapt cleverly or continue to see their sites deindexed and penalised.
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          • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
            Meh, public blog networks.... who cares
            (I know I just annoyed all of the link sellers. Sorry bro..)

            But seriously, why not just build a really functional relevance network to get around that whole problem? If everyone knows that algo-based solution is on it's way, it seems like a good time to start playing the game accordingly... doesn't it?

            Don't mind me if I seem a little cranky. I know Mike is already playing this game with me, I just don't understand why others aren't as well.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

              Meh, public blog networks.... who cares
              (I know I just annoyed all of the link sellers. Sorry bro..)

              But seriously, why not just build a really functional relevance network to get around that whole problem? If everyone knows that algo-based solution is on it's way, it seems like a good time to start playing the game accordingly... doesn't it?

              Don't mind me if I seem a little cranky. I know Mike is already playing this game with me, I just don't understand why others aren't as well.
              I think they think it is too hard, too expensive, too time consuming, they don't know how to do it, or think that any type of network is just automatically in Google's sites.

              Truthfully, none of that is true.

              It's too hard? (That's what she said) Really is not any harder than setting up a non-relevant network.

              Too expensive? It certainly is not more expensive than having domains deindexed and having to replace them.

              Too time consuming? Same as above.

              Don't know how to do it? Well, okay, that is a valid excuse maybe.

              All network's are in Google's sites? If that was the case, you would hear a lot more large companies complaining about ranking drops every time Google goes on a rampage like last week.
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              • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                I think they think it is too hard, too expensive, too time consuming, they don't know how to do it, or think that any type of network is just automatically in Google's sites.

                Truthfully, none of that is true.

                It's too hard? (That's what she said) Really is not any harder than setting up a non-relevant network.

                Too expensive? It certainly is not more expensive than having domains deindexed and having to replace them.

                Too time consuming? Same as above.

                Don't know how to do it? Well, okay, that is a valid excuse maybe.

                All network's are in Google's sites? If that was the case, you would hear a lot more large companies complaining about ranking drops every time Google goes on a rampage like last week.
                I just see that as laziness. Intellectual laziness, creative laziness.... I just don't have the tolerance for people who are willfully dense.

                Ack, maybe that's why a forum didn't agree with me in the end.
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  • Profile picture of the author omayagui
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  • Profile picture of the author PFtalker
    How exactly Google is identifying the trffice comming from the private network blogs??
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    • Profile picture of the author domainingin
      There are many factors re footprints, which have to be considered and adjusted well at a PBN, but most important is the domain and what I see here, people are speaking about expired domains from auctions, which in my opinion is a massive footprint!

      We never find expired domains in auctions, but scraping good old google for domains that are just are laying around to be collected, using different techniques. Most of such domains have a clean link profile and leave no footprint at all, as they were never listed at auctions or used in linkfarms.

      If you than take actions re all what was already said, you should be save of google detecting your PBN.

      The point is to select your domains carefully and to filter out low quality spammy domains for example with MajesticSEO CF / TF ratio.

      Cheers
      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author ecdavis
    Right. It is predictable that Google will try to knock out anything that it sees as manipulating search results.
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  • Profile picture of the author ecdavis
    I understand that putting sites on hosting marketed as SEO hosting is basically putting your sites on hosting with a target on it. This makes a kind of intuitive sense, but I haven't found a reference from Matt Cutts specifically saying that SEO hosting is risky.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by ecdavis View Post

      I understand that putting sites on hosting marketed as SEO hosting is basically putting your sites on hosting with a target on it. This makes a kind of intuitive sense, but I haven't found a reference from Matt Cutts specifically saying that SEO hosting is risky.
      You won't find that. You can find plenty of people that have experienced it though.
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      • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        You won't find that. You can find plenty of people that have experienced it though.
        Exactly - just look around you and talk to people that have their networks largely deindexed. There is no question as to the pattern being directly related to "SEO HOSTING."
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  • Profile picture of the author deezn
    You have to think about low hanging fruit. Low hanging fruit is buying hosting on a SEO host, finding out the IP and then punishing those on there. That's low hanging fruit.

    Link sellers. Buy a package, find out what links are set up, punish those sites and all the links on them. These are really really easy to figure out as anyone here can do so with commercially available tools. BMR, etc

    Make your site a high hanging fruit, and it stands a much better chance
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  • Profile picture of the author pixelcreative
    Mostly I read all stuffs above.

    I'am newbie for PBN. Trying to make my own seo with PBN locally.

    I have 50 corporate website in dedicated server ( same ip/nameserver)

    And 40 high PR domains PR3-7 with fresh content. ( Developing each day)

    What do you offer me?

    - Seo Hosting or Dedicated, VPS? Which is better ?
    - Registration footprints ( do we hide or change all registerer) ?
    - Cross linking..

    and your advices in advance.

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Divo
      Hello Pixelcreative,

      In order to hide your footprints and develop a lasting and profitable PBN, address the following changes you should make:

      Please avoid creating your 50 corporate websites with the same ip/nameserver.
      Each site should have a unique ip, otherwise you're just creating a huge footprint.

      Change every site/domain registration to a different owner name, email, address, phone, etc.

      Do not crosslink your PBN's, they need to stand alone and only send links to your money site or authority site.

      Much Success to you!
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Divo View Post

        Do not crosslink your PBN's, they need to stand alone and only send links to your money site or authority site.
        I do not entirely agree with that. I would not go crazy with it, but if you make good network sites that are almost like mini authority sites on their own, a little cross-linking is not awful.

        You have to be careful and really be making good sites. I wouldn't take a bunch of 5-6 page sites and interlink them all together or anything like that.

        I've done it before though where I put a really strong piece of content on one network site. Like research paper type material. That page will link to 2-3 pages on other network sites which then link to my money site. Those 2-3 pages are now related by co-citation, have a strong related link pointing to them, and are then pointing at a money site. Generates some great relevancy that way.

        You have to really plan it out though and think a few steps ahead. It's not the kind of thing that your common link sellers around here are doing, or would even understand for that matter.
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      • Profile picture of the author pixelcreative
        Originally Posted by Divo View Post

        Hello Pixelcreative,

        In order to hide your footprints and develop a lasting and profitable PBN, address the following changes you should make:

        Please avoid creating your 50 corporate websites with the same ip/nameserver.
        Each site should have a unique ip, otherwise you're just creating a huge footprint.

        Change every site/domain registration to a different owner name, email, address, phone, etc.

        Do not crosslink your PBN's, they need to stand alone and only send links to your money site or authority site.

        Much Success to you!
        Thanks for your comment about this topic.

        - Yes more diversity on IP's better. But when i check in warrior, seo hosting & ip's can easily detected and can be banned. So what do you offer to me, seo hosting with multiple c class or each of hosting in diffrent hosting and so on ip ( much more expensive)

        - Not sitewide links but as for article and some footer links can be useful for PBN.

        - For PBN also you need diffrent kind of websites, web directories,not only related news..

        So what do you offer me for PBN, Seo hosting or each website seperated with ip?

        Because more than 100 website..need 100 hosting package..is a bit expensive.

        Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
          Originally Posted by pixelcreative View Post

          Thanks for your comment about this topic.

          - Yes more diversity on IP's better. But when i check in warrior, seo hosting & ip's can easily detected and can be banned. So what do you offer to me, seo hosting with multiple c class or each of hosting in diffrent hosting and so on ip ( much more expensive)

          - Not sitewide links but as for article and some footer links can be useful for PBN.

          - For PBN also you need diffrent kind of websites, web directories,not only related news..

          So what do you offer me for PBN, Seo hosting or each website seperated with ip?

          Because more than 100 website..need 100 hosting package..is a bit expensive.

          Thanks
          These days maintaining a PBN requires more money and effort than it previously did. One of the possible reasons why PBNs were deindexed was because of the cheap hosting and SEO hosting services they used.

          To protect your PBN, you need to use standard web hosts, not the $1 per month hosts, and avoid SEO hosting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    I know a few of you guys already kind of said this before but I don't get why you are all fighting the tide.

    I mean seriously, if PBN's are getting hit why are you creating more?

    Link outreach and guest posting works wonders, and honestly is pretty dang easy to set up.

    If you really want a PBN wait for this whole thing to blow over and then start building them again, Google has a habit of cracking down on a strategy and then letting it go. I've found that a lot of old link building strategies work again.
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by Slin View Post

      if PBN's are getting hit, why are you creating more?
      ^^ if PBN's are getting hit, why aren't you creating them smarter? Why don't you treat them like your own websites? Why throw rehashed content on only one page? Why just link to your homepage? Why not mix up themes and cms's? Why not randomize and strategize? Why not monetize them on their own?
      Why not build an empire!
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      • Profile picture of the author Slin
        Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

        ^^ if PBN's are getting hit, why aren't you creating them smarter?
        Why would I spend all of that time and money creating them when I can guest post and get great results without nearly the same effort?

        I dunno, personally I'd rather stay away from Private blog networks until all of this dies down. If you are smart enough to dodge Google then sure go ahead, for me I find that investing my time in creating content partnerships online takes a lot less time and effort.

        But if you have some awesome method that cuts down on that and dodges Google then of course go ahead and use it, I doubt most of the people here have access to anything like that.
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        • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
          Originally Posted by Slin View Post

          Why would I spend all of that time and money creating them when I can guest post and get great results without nearly the same effort?
          The effort is equal both ways. Time and money? Guest posting doesn't cost money?

          Consider the beginner, (like we were once), wondering how the internet and links all fit together. Interlinking (pbn, blogging, comments, guest post, etc) was maze to us. MahJong on your left and Sudoku on your right. It took me a good while to understand how juice flowed to and from pages.

          Case in point.. with my knowledge and understanding now of how link flow works, added to my knowledge of how to push the 'Install Wordpress' button in CPanel, all "effort" being equal, I would rather own my own sites that link out to eachother, than rely on someone else's sites.

          Originally Posted by Slin View Post

          I dunno, personally I'd rather stay away from Private blog networks until all of this dies down.
          All of this won't die down. Ok, it may die down. But it may not. Thus spake Zarathustra. Besides, aren't the links your Partner-Network-Trading.. aren't those, in a way, Private-Network-Building in secret? In a broad Public-Open-Network sort of way?

          Originally Posted by Slin View Post

          If you are smart enough to dodge Google then sure go ahead, for me I find that investing my time in creating content partnerships online takes a lot less time and effort
          Some people won't create content partnerships (link to you with your cool guest post) with the beginner. Unless you offer them $$ of course. But that's a different path than the OP's topic, Pbn's.

          Originally Posted by Slin View Post

          But if you have some awesome method that cuts down on that and dodges Google then of course go ahead and use it, I doubt most of the people here have access to anything like that.
          Anything like what?

          Having links on sites with pr et al is a major goal of course (just as guest posting is), but going forward, imho, I would learn how to set up and own your own websites, randomize themes, multiple pages, random co-citation link out to other authority sites, and so on. It's not as hard as you started your 'main' site. It's just owning more sites on pre-authoritive domains. I just don't have to ask or buy links from someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author sohilsingh121
    Google's Update always hits on negative and spam activities website. And if you know, there are lots of SEOs doing Guest Blogging which is too much and consider as a Spam activity. So Google has penalized some Guest Blogging networks recently.
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  • Profile picture of the author pixelcreative
    PBN Still alive..Whereas guest blogging no-longer..
    As i observe high trust flow backlinks work well. I use a link wheel which measures moz rank- (trust and flow) still works. So if you can create PBN like that with diffrent ip's. it will work too.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Slin View Post

      I know a few of you guys already kind of said this before but I don't get why you are all fighting the tide.

      I mean seriously, if PBN's are getting hit why are you creating more?

      Link outreach and guest posting works wonders, and honestly is pretty dang easy to set up.

      If you really want a PBN wait for this whole thing to blow over and then start building them again, Google has a habit of cracking down on a strategy and then letting it go. I've found that a lot of old link building strategies work again.
      Two things I will say to that. First, your comment about fighting the tide is kind of hypocritical when you are advocating guest posting. Guest posting has also been in Google's sites pretty heavily this year.

      Second, Google is really targeting public networks. Those that understand how to build private networks are not getting hit.

      Originally Posted by Slin View Post

      Why would I spend all of that time and money creating them when I can guest post and get great results without nearly the same effort?

      I dunno, personally I'd rather stay away from Private blog networks until all of this dies down. If you are smart enough to dodge Google then sure go ahead, for me I find that investing my time in creating content partnerships online takes a lot less time and effort.
      You can criticize the method of using private networks, but that part is just totally untrue. Outreach takes far more time and effort than setting up a private network. That's the whole reason people started setting up private networks in the first place.
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      • Profile picture of the author pixelcreative
        Hello,

        As a skilled PBN owner, Which do you offer, seo hosting or normal hosting from diffrent companies.



        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Two things I will say to that. First, your comment about fighting the tide is kind of hypocritical when you are advocating guest posting. Guest posting has also been in Google's sites pretty heavily this year.

        Second, Google is really targeting public networks. Those that understand how to build private networks are not getting hit.



        You can criticize the method of using private networks, but that part is just totally untrue. Outreach takes far more time and effort than setting up a private network. That's the whole reason people started setting up private networks in the first place.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by pixelcreative View Post

          Hello,

          As a skilled PBN owner, Which do you offer, seo hosting or normal hosting from diffrent companies.
          I would never, ever use SEO hosting.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    A PBN per se isn't the problem, it's low quality PBNs that's the issue.

    If you build 100 high quality websites you have a high quality PBN, if you are careful how you use the network to make money Google won't have a problem.

    Take shortcuts, low quality content, thin content etc... and excessively use the network for linking to money sites and expect to be downgraded long term.

    Taken well over a decade to build my network and have made all the mistakes (some deliberately for SEO tests) and the high quality sites within the network generate decent traffic, the low quality sites aren't doing anywhere near as well. I'm removing the lower quality parts of my network, will probably get rid of over 50 domains medium term: will concentrate on a smaller number of high quality sites.

    Can you build a crappy low quality network and rank a money site?

    YES.

    Are you guaranteed to avoid a Google slap long term?

    NO.

    Google is trying to devalue the low quality networks from it's indexed. If you own a 100 high quality domain network on one IP address you should feel safe inviting a Google manual reviewer to view your network. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with building a network to make money.

    David
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

      If you own a 100 high quality domain network on one IP address you should feel safe inviting a Google manual reviewer to view your network.
      Whoa there chief, I hope you're speaking hypothetical
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      • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
        Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

        Whoa there chief, I hope you're speaking hypothetical
        LOL I spread my network out a little more than 100 domains per IP.

        Probably average a dozen domains per IP, though I wouldn't have an issue with 100 on an IP as long as they are ALL quality sites.

        David
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    It's funny reading how people go about the same subject (PBNs) in different ways. Personally I'm all for building out network sites because my goal is long term money, I want my sites to generate money 10+ years from now.

    I don't buy into some niches can't generate traffic to help build links (ex: local plumber) because something as simple as a local plumber has access/knowledge that the average person doesn't have.

    Example, a single network site for a local plumber link network could be a keyword optimized image gallery based on images taken at plumber job sites on an iphone (quality images) & uploaded to a domain giving away images to the general public (public domain images) which would generate a ton of traffic built backlinks over the lifetime of an offline local plumbing business.

    That's how you get traffic to participate in building network link profiles. Obviously I still optimize links.

    It's not complicated...
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