Big Websites Pagerank ?

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  • SEO
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Seo is changing all the time, but one thing i don't understand right now is, how a big site like http://wwww.king.com can have a pagerank on 0 ?

How can that be?

Thanks
#big #pagerank #websites
  • Profile picture of the author anynewsbd
    Page rank depends on that how much valuable your site to Google. if u have visitor then obviously your site will get good page rank but if u have no more visitor then You have to make some good pr 1/higher back-link to develop your seo & also page rank also try get more visitor . As i know Google Analise after every 3-4 mounts for page rank so do not up-sate wait for next analysis
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Right - so you will receive 100s of opinions - we have the facts - but they almost always go over everyones heads. It comes down to one very simple point - number of visitors generated per $1 of spend. So small business is single digits - corporates are 25-30 - if you can make Google see you are generating 25-30 visitors per $1 they will index and send you mroe traffic.

    We have seen examples of this from high-end consultants who can have a new Magento site indexed and ranking next to Amazon, Saks, Hugo Boss for the same short tail keyword products in weeks with zero pr - zero social media - zero marketing.

    The problem, small business doesn't have access to the technology to do it as you need to understand how the largest corporations work - they achieve 1,000% efficiency gains - so we use a hosting architecture designed by SAP consultants. We put a new Magento site on it - 24 organic visitors per $1 - ppc will get you 1-2!!!

    You can do it with business resource - but you need a lot of people to generate the content, backlinks. The automation tools - Google knows where they are so you may get away with it short term - but they will punish you eventually. If you go above 30 per $1 - you will be delisted. All very simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author steffanmax
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      Right - so you will receive 100s of opinions - we have the facts - but they almost always go over everyones heads. It comes down to one very simple point - number of visitors generated per $1 of spend. So small business is single digits - corporates are 25-30 - if you can make Google see you are generating 25-30 visitors per $1 they will index and send you mroe traffic.

      We have seen examples of this from high-end consultants who can have a new Magento site indexed and ranking next to Amazon, Saks, Hugo Boss for the same short tail keyword products in weeks with zero pr - zero social media - zero marketing.

      The problem, small business doesn't have access to the technology to do it as you need to understand how the largest corporations work - they achieve 1,000% efficiency gains - so we use a hosting architecture designed by SAP consultants. We put a new Magento site on it - 24 organic visitors per $1 - ppc will get you 1-2!!!

      You can do it with business resource - but you need a lot of people to generate the content, backlinks. The automation tools - Google knows where they are so you may get away with it short term - but they will punish you eventually. If you go above 30 per $1 - you will be delisted. All very simple.
      So in another way i need to buy "pagerank" with money, by google adwords?
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      • Profile picture of the author serpyre
        Originally Posted by steffanmax View Post

        So in another way i need to buy "pagerank" with money, by google adwords?
        No, you didn't read it properly. PPC will buy you 1-2 visitors per $1 - that will just put you out of business if you spend more than 20% of your marketing budget on it! Another way to put it - the coporates pay $0.03 to $0.04 per click over all sales channels!!!
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        • Profile picture of the author steffanmax
          Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

          No, you didn't read it properly. PPC will buy you 1-2 visitors per $1 - that will just put you out of business if you spend more than 20% of your marketing budget on it! Another way to put it - the coporates pay $0.03 to $0.04 per click over all sales channels!!!
          I see it, so i have to buy ppc over many channels (as many as i can) ?
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          • Profile picture of the author serpyre
            Originally Posted by steffanmax View Post

            I see it, so i have to buy ppc over many channels (as many as i can) ?
            No, you are still not reading it correctly. PPC as a complete channel should not be more than 20% of marketing - regardless of what medium you use (Facebook, Adwords). The other 80% comes from other channels which have nothing to do with PPC. More than 20% and you lose the dillution effect so your Visitors per $1 drop off rapidly - which means you can't compete with the other retailers and slowly the business sinks!

            There are some exceptions relating to high conversions, low cost per click, high value items - but they cover a few percent of cases so are the exceptions. In the end it just comes down to return on investment and economics - something we are learning that most people seem to ignore!
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      Right - so you will receive 100s of opinions - we have the facts - but they almost always go over everyones heads. It comes down to one very simple point - number of visitors generated per $1 of spend. So small business is single digits - corporates are 25-30 - if you can make Google see you are generating 25-30 visitors per $1 they will index and send you mroe traffic.

      We have seen examples of this from high-end consultants who can have a new Magento site indexed and ranking next to Amazon, Saks, Hugo Boss for the same short tail keyword products in weeks with zero pr - zero social media - zero marketing.

      The problem, small business doesn't have access to the technology to do it as you need to understand how the largest corporations work - they achieve 1,000% efficiency gains - so we use a hosting architecture designed by SAP consultants. We put a new Magento site on it - 24 organic visitors per $1 - ppc will get you 1-2!!!

      You can do it with business resource - but you need a lot of people to generate the content, backlinks. The automation tools - Google knows where they are so you may get away with it short term - but they will punish you eventually. If you go above 30 per $1 - you will be delisted. All very simple.
      None of that, not one bit of it, has anything to do with PageRank.

      PageRank is a measure of the quality of incoming links to a page. Internally, Google updates it constantly, but they only release updates to the public data (what we see) periodically. They have not released a PR update since last December.

      That last bit is really silly. Google has no idea how many visitors a site is getting per dollar spent. Sorry, but I do not know any business that is sharing their marketing budget with Google.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        None of that, not one bit of it, has anything to do with PageRank.
        He spews that same thing on every single sub-forum he post on, it's not just here & not just PR.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          He spews that same thing on every single sub-forum he post on, it's not just here & not just PR.
          I think it's a bot.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          He spews that same thing on every single sub-forum he post on, it's not just here & not just PR.
          I'm in favor of a ban (and I am only 10% joking on that) or an award for the most garbage posted in the shortest time.

          Call me a snob but everytime I see alot of junk posted the join date is 2014 and the poster is not a war room member (in a lot of cases because the posters doesn't have two nickels to rub together in real non faking it life.).

          Tell Alaister to make some more forums paid so we can escape the madness for awhile.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Just to help you here are the figures. 2,000 visitors per month of which you pay $0.50/click for 1,000 visitors (the other 1,000 are organic, social media, etc) so $500/mth marketing. You get a 1% conversion rate so 20 orders at $127 per order is $2,500 revenue - at 30% gross profit margin is $750 so you are basically working to pay Google or Facebook!

    The average conversion is 2.5% but as a startup small business you generally achieve 7-10x lower, if you are experienced/established and/or lucky you may get 3-5x lower conversions (depending on industry of course).
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    And there is the perfect example of the lack of understanding how the corporates work - who in turn control the market - the top 5% generate 50% of all online revenue. The consultants spent 1yr explaining it to us - which again is why they can have a zero pr site ranking up next to the corporates in weeks - which was the original question - we saw the end result. When you have worked on $10s millions projects with companies like L'Oreal & Renault let us know - we can then have a real conversation about how it works.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      And there is the perfect example of the lack of understanding how the corporates work - who in turn control the market - the top 5% generate 50% of all online revenue. The consultants spent 1yr explaining it to us - which again is why they can have a zero pr site ranking up next to the corporates in weeks - which was the original question - we have seen it done first hand. When you have worked on $10s millions projects with companies like L'Oreal & Renault let us know - we can then have a real conversation about how it works.
      No, the original question was...

      Originally Posted by steffanmax View Post

      Seo is changing all the time, but one thing i don't understand right now is, how a big site like http://wwww.king.com can have a pagerank on 0 ?

      How can that be?

      Thanks
      Nothing you said had a thing to do with PageRank. You are talking about rankings, not PageRank. Rankings are a completely different conversation.

      PageRank has nothing to do with visitors, rankings, or any of that stuff. It is simply a measure of the quality of incoming links to a page. That's it.
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    • Profile picture of the author steffanmax
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      And there is the perfect example of the lack of understanding how the corporates work - who in turn control the market - the top 5% generate 50% of all online revenue. The consultants spent 1yr explaining it to us - which again is why they can have a zero pr site ranking up next to the corporates in weeks - which was the original question - we have seen it done first hand. When you have worked on $10s millions projects with companies like L'Oreal & Renault let us know - we can then have a real conversation about how it works.
      Yeah i know what you are talking about, just see how the money is dealed in this world, off course they work together. Thanks i will be following you
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  • Profile picture of the author alex fernandes
    Originally Posted by steffanmax View Post

    Seo is changing all the time, but one thing i don't understand right now is, how a big site like http://wwww.king.com can have a pagerank on 0 ?

    How can that be?

    Thanks
    Did you check the domain age of this website? Maybe this domain was created after the last page rank update which was on 6th Dec, 2013.
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    D'Design Studio is one of the prominent Web Design and Web Development Company in Mumbai

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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    That's the problem with small business, they are clouded by the details and can't see the overall picture - it doesn't mean you can't be successful - it is just much more difficult due to the lack of efficiency. Some consultants kindly spent time explaining it to us, we are passing that information on, it has no impact on us whether it is understood or not - it's just the way it works.

    That's the problem with lack of understanding and seeing the big picture, always trying to discredit things they don't know. So we would say can you explain how a small business we just put on to the corporate level hosting architecture built by SAP consultants is achieving 24 organic visitors per $1 with zero marketing - zero social media - zero ppc - close to companies like Amazon and Saks and 7-10x what you could achieve with ppc.

    The thing is we don't need or want an answer - everyone is always trying to pull a Jack or Queen, but when you work with SAP consultants who also use sme tools like Magento and work alongside Google - you get to have the Ace - and that's what counts!

    So at a small business level we are actually not going to disagree or agree with you - simply because we see the bigger picture. The internet is global - you are competing with everyone from home based sites to Amazon - when you have the top down view everything is clear - at the small business level everything is cloudy - at which point we direct you to the 'birds management' image!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author steffanmax
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      That's the problem with small business, they are clouded by the details and can't see the overall picture - it doesn't mean you can't be successful - it is just much more difficult due to the lack of efficiency. Some consultants kindly spent time explaining it to us, we are passing that information on, it has no impact on us whether it is understood or not - it's just the way it works.

      That's the problem with lack of understanding and seeing the big picture, always trying to discredit things they don't know. So we would say can you explain how a small business we just put on to the corporate level hosting architecture built by SAP consultants is achieving 24 organic visitors per $1 with zero marketing - zero social media - zero ppc - close to companies like Amazon and Saks and 7-10x what you could achieve with ppc.

      The thing is we don't need or want an answer - everyone is always trying to pull a Jack or Queen, but when you work with SAP consultants who also use sme tools like Magento and work alongside Google - you get to have the Ace - and that's what counts!

      So at a small business level we are actually not going to disagree or agree with you - simply because we see the bigger picture. The internet is global - you are competing with everyone from home based sites to Amazon - when you have the top down view everything is clear - at the small business level everything is cloudy - at which point we direct you to the 'birds management' image!!!
      I always try to copy the Biggeste competition, isnt that the only thing you can do in this situation, and then being lucky to "know somebody" if you have the right money?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      That's the problem with small business, they are clouded by the details and can't see the overall picture - it doesn't mean you can't be successful - it is just much more difficult due to the lack of efficiency. Some consultants kindly spent time explaining it to us, we are passing that information on, it has no impact on us whether it is understood or not - it's just the way it works.

      That's the problem with lack of understanding and seeing the big picture, always trying to discredit things they don't know. So we would say can you explain how a small business we just put on to the corporate level hosting architecture built by SAP consultants is achieving 24 organic visitors per $1 with zero marketing - zero social media - zero ppc - close to companies like Amazon and Saks and 7-10x what you could achieve with ppc.

      The thing is we don't need or want an answer - everyone is always trying to pull a Jack or Queen, but when you work with SAP consultants who also use sme tools like Magento and work alongside Google - you get to have the Ace - and that's what counts!

      So at a small business level we are actually not going to disagree or agree with you - simply because we see the bigger picture. The internet is global - you are competing with everyone from home based sites to Amazon - when you have the top down view everything is clear - at the small business level everything is cloudy - at which point we direct you to the 'birds management' image!!!
      You keep bringing PPC and visitors into this discussion.

      I'm not stating that anything you are saying is right or wrong. I'm saying it has nothing to do with PageRank, which is what the original poster was asking about.

      You can question whether focusing on PageRank is important or not, which I think is what you are trying to get at in a roundabout way, but that is a different discussion that does not answer their question.
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Again, back to the point we are making, focusing on pagerank is a minor detail in the big picture - but for small business they believe it is a major part. The question was actually incredibly simple - how does a large site work with a pr0 - and the answer is they know how corporate level technology integrates with business resource for high efficiency.

    We will simplify it even further - honestly have no idea why but there you go. The OP is a top-down person - 95%+ will work from the bottom up. So a small business will at best generate 0-50% & 100-200% efficiency gains by using software/services. A mid-size business will be 300-500%, corporates will be 700-1,000%.

    This means a corporate can do with one person what a small business needs 7-10people to do. How does that translate to pagerank, indexing, seo, ppc - simple Google directly -and- indirectly knows what sites fit at what level. So the consultants showed us a test Magento site with 30,000 or 250,000 products (they had two) ranking with pr0 next to Hugo Boss, Net-A-Porter first page within 6wks -only- using hosting architecture.

    How is this possible, the architecture is derived from the architecture that Net-A-Porter and other top coporate sites use - it increases effienciency by 950% - Google thinks that a startup is a $multi-million company and ranks it accordingly - with zero pr0.

    You can achieve the same with only business, backlinks, press releases, social media but you are going to need $10s to $100s thousands budget and a lot of resource. So it directly answers the question - the main problem is that no-one on the forums will have been the architects for $10s millions projects - and therefore have only cursory understanding how it all fits together at the corporate levels presuming that everything is purely quantitative rather than the actual approach which combines it with qualitative methods (corporate speak).
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      Again, back to the point we are making, focusing on pagerank is a minor detail in the big picture - but for small business they believe it is a major part.
      And I never said otherwise, yet you keep arguing.

      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      The question was actually incredibly simple - how does a large site work with a pr0 -
      No. That was not the question. The question was WHY does a big site like king.com have a PR of 0? Why? Not how does it compete with other sites while having a PR of zero.

      The OP was assuming that just because a site is big that the homepage should have a high PR, which of course is not the case for a multitude of reasons. One of the biggest being that public PR updates are infrequent and inaccurate. Another reason being that the size of a site has nothing to do with the quality of incoming links, which is what PR is a measure of.

      I'm not arguing about whether or not PR is important, which is what you keep turning this into. It was a question more about what PR is versus its role in online marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        serpyre,

        The OP has zip to do with the crapola that you are spouting.

        He asks about a site's PR, and you morph that into answering with ppc,
        seo, corporate speak, and just a bunch of junk.

        Google does not do PR on what "it" thinks. A startup, with millions banked,
        would undoubtedly have a zillion backlinks, instantly making its PR way
        more than PR0. Google updates PR on an ongoing basis, constantly.

        And the rest of your shpiel has nothing to do with anything, and is just
        full of nonsense.

        In fact, if one was to quote each piece of sewage from your posts, and reply,
        it would take at least a full day.

        Paul
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        If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Always good, just shows that 99% only see what they want to see and work from bottom-up - interesting that Google switched to top-down a few years ago and that is now feeding in to the mainstream. The problem with all these is that Google haven't got to the weak players yet - hence the "it doesn't work that way" - we have already seen and been through it - Google will work its way down in its own good time!

    Well, we're on the side of the top-down crowd (the absolute minority) with consultants backing it up having chargeouts of $1,000-4,000/day - a venture capital fund who built an architecture along the lines of Rocket Internet - and some vision to make enough to live - not survive.

    Just as well we got out of the service provider market - they gave us the architecture to see if any smes could actually have some vision - turns out if you show small business 100-200% efficiency they become uncomfortable, 300-500% and they are completely lost, 700-1,000% and their heads start to spin. Then you just get the angry people who did it the hard way over many years from the bottom-up - so when someone says you can do it 7-10x faster - it's all out war!

    On that note we're off for our caipirinha, it's Friday after all!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author steffanmax
      Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

      Always good, just shows that 99% only see what they want to see and work from bottom-up - interesting that Google switched to top-down a few years ago and that is now feeding in to the mainstream. The problem with all these is that Google haven't got to the weak players yet - hence the "it doesn't work that way" - we have already seen and been through it - Google will work its way down in its own good time!

      Well, we're on the side of the top-down crowd (the absolute minority) with consultants backing it up having chargeouts of $1,000-4,000/day - a venture capital fund who built an architecture along the lines of Rocket Internet - and some vision to make enough to live - not survive.

      Just as well we got out of the service provider market - they gave us the architecture to see if any smes could actually have some vision - turns out if you show small business 100-200% efficiency they become uncomfortable, 300-500% and they are completely lost, 700-1,000% and their heads start to spin. Then you just get the angry people who did it the hard way over many years from the bottom-up - so when someone says you can do it 7-10x faster - it's all out war!

      On that note we're off for our caipirinha, it's Friday after all!!!
      So how to get around that? spy-copy-spy-copy?
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      • Profile picture of the author serpyre
        Originally Posted by steffanmax View Post

        So how to get around that? spy-copy-spy-copy?
        Actually not sure what you are asking, sorry, caipirinha kicked in, always nicer when they make it with hanava club. Could you be more specific.
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        • Profile picture of the author steffanmax
          Originally Posted by serpyre View Post

          Actually not sure what you are asking, sorry, caipirinha kicked in, always nicer when they make it with hanava club. Could you be more specific.
          Yeah we all know there is the 1% so i can only win this by making more products and marketing than 1%? right?

          Like lo'real they sell like 100.000 type of products.
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          • Profile picture of the author serpyre
            Originally Posted by steffanmax View Post

            Yeah we all know there is the 1% so i can only win this by making more products and marketing than 1%? right?

            Like lo'real they sell like 100.000 type of products.
            Right, understand now. So these are some steps, take a Magento clean install, Themeforest high sales theme, get some decent hosting like Nexcess - should be 1% of expected revenue. Do not add any extensions unless absolutely necessary, limit config changes, don't worry about theme changes unless absolutely have to, add an inifinity scroll - site can/should be live in a couple of weeks. Block Google from indexing the site during dev.

            Switch off add category paths to urls - add a one or two keyword prefix to the product urls, add the manufacurer name - then the product name - http://www.domain.com/women-fragranc...abbana-the-one. You need 1-2s page loads - Radware State of the Union - without full page caching - that can be added later.

            For the products, use Excel to format the dataset, use Magmi for a dataload. International provides more exposure but you have currency issues with checkout currency - so start with a single store. Launch with gross profit at 30% (Amazon) over cogs (your buy price) which gives around 5% net profit margin - you can increase it from there once you receive visitors. Dropshipping is easier to start than inventory. You really need to ramp up to around 30,000 end products.

            For marketing, split your budget/time by this https://www.custora.com/pulse/channel - Amazon use 4% of revenue for marketing - average is 8% - Gartner. Remove the Google block and fire off some social media posts to tell Google you are there. Don't use any Google tools - use piwik for analytics - don't use a sitemap.

            With that process - you will shorten 6-9mths down to 1mth.

            There was a story at the start of an exam paper. Two friends were walking in a field when a bear pops up - the friends start running and one friend says to the other - but whats the point - the bear will catch us. The other friend shouts back as he accelerates away - I just need to run faster than you.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    On goes the bot...
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Well it doesn't matter anymore - it's all about to start!
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  • Profile picture of the author serpyre
    Time to put it all in to perspective. So @benmarks confirmed to us that the largest Magento implementations are $2-5mil for ~$200mil revenue companies - we are working as part of a $2mil install - directly designed by SAP architects - the largest business automation suite implemented by most of the Fortune 500 as part of $10s-$100s millions projects - this project is a play thing for them!

    The small business solutions with 100-200% efficiency are now starting to fail, the service providers have nothing more efficient to provide the retailers - Google are now directly and indirectly looking at increased efficiency to separate the real sites from the nonsense.

    The installation guide http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...ml#post9554157 is small derivative from that project – they don’t mind us releasing it as it only provides 300% efficiency. We need to start the data loads to a 1mil Magento affiliate site derived from the architecture - haven't got around to it yet as wanted to wait for the faster second generation hosting to compliment Googles need for increased efficiency.

    As the solutions are derived from SAP we have 300-500% and 700-1,000% efficiency - when the 300-500% stops working in the next year or two - we'll move up to the next level - small business providers don't have that - it causes confusion. Confusion breeds contempt.

    The implementation company we work with via the venture capital fund owned by a hedge fund have stated the next recession will start within 12mths - it will be twice as damaging as 2008 - volatility will increase - trust will be number one - they have worked in the largest banks and had family lunches with billionaires.

    So the comments about bots are closer to the truth, with up to 950% increased efficiency there’s no need for seo service providers when we can rank a site with just hands-off corporate hosting architecture. An example, consultants put a site on $2,000/mth hosting clusters, throttled it by 50% and the Google throttled the number of visitors they sent - put back to 100% and Google visitors numbers came back within a couple of days all at 25-30 visitors per $1 – now we can do the same for $700/mth with the second generation.

    We don’t implement this for anyone unless they come and say they really want it – we have other things to do – and then we still have to seek approval - the forex market is coming back online after historic low volatility – which is actually where our concentration goes - which is why we need 950% automation – we don’t want to spend 40hrs/wk coercing Google or customers to visit commerce or affiliate sites which need another 40hrs/wk to maintain and grow.

    So the contempt is all very understandable - if weak - but it doesn't change the simple fact - the small business solutions are starting to fail with the infrastructure surrounding them starting to implode. All you need to do is wait until Quarter1 2015 - the corporates will keep their 20-50% YoY gains on track directly fed by the small business inefficiencies. It’s no-ones fault – it’s just the way it works now.
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    • Profile picture of the author erikathomson
      Page Rank Depends upon how many qualitative back links your website have.
      With more back links your website's page rank will be improve.
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  • Profile picture of the author benniegood
    Google gives you the page rank when traffics in your sites are more than the another. and for this reason, it is too much essential to design your website most user friendly . Websites should have a good appearance with appropriate coding language. For Responsive WordPress Design, WordPress Website Design, WordPress Development , there are so many companies are available in internet. Who can give you the best idea to build up an website carefully.
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  • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
    Well, the site is down for me.
    So that could have something to do with it. How often does that happen?
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Walker
    there should be some change in URL recently which has affected its page rank,
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