36 replies
So Warriors what do think of having a down vote button after all there is an up vote only stands to reason we should have the other !

Jason
#threads #voting
  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    I am all for it

    al
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Respectfully, I'm against it.

    Too much room for abuse, IMO, and I think the Upvote system is all we need at this time.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Respectfully, I'm against it.

      Too much room for abuse, IMO, and I think the Upvote system is all we need at this time.

      Cheers

      -don
      You can get the same amount of abuse with the upvote system. What is the purpose of the vote if you do not have a choice. If you have an upvote option then you need an downvote option

      al
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      "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        You can get the same amount of abuse with the upvote system. What is the purpose of the vote if you do not have a choice. If you have an upvote option then you need an downvote option

        al

        I agree with that. Having both gives some opportunity for the community to balance any kind of abuse.

        A downvote system could be equally beneficial to push down junk.

        In fact, it could tie in nicely with the new article posting initiative if that is going to stick around. It would make it easier to see who the community feels the top contributors are and who perhaps needs to work a little bit on what they are delivering.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Makes logical sense to me. Enough down votes could trip a review for deletion by the mods. A quick down vote might increase the amount of participants willing to help mod. Not everyone is as willing as Don to spend all their free time reporting posts in violation of the rules. A simpler process might engage more participation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I'm not really for either of them but if you have an "upvote" seems to make sense to provide a "downvote" as well. One can be gamed just as easily as another.

    You know going in that some will automatically upvote those they like -and a few will downvote those members they don't like. It's what happens after that small group is done that would make a difference.

    Might work better in the long run than the "member mod" function which seems to be ignored recently and is used by only a few people.

    More members might be willing to give their "opinion" of a thread's quality if they could do so quickly and anonymously. The more people who truly participate in the forum - the better the WF will be.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I'm not really for either of them but if you have an "upvote" seems to make sense to provide a "downvote" as well. One can be gamed just as easily as another.

      You know going in that some will automatically upvote those they like -and a few will downvote those members they don't like. It's what happens after that small group is done that would make a difference.

      Might work better in the long run than the "member mod" function which seems to be ignored recently and is used by only a few people.

      More members might be willing to give their "opinion" of a thread's quality if they could do so quickly and anonymously. The more people who truly participate in the forum - the better the WF will be.

      I don't care why you posted, but nobody is going to add a down vote button so peeps like the OP can run around the forum slamming all of the article posters etc.

      It just ain't gonna happen and I have no idea who banned him.

      #sparta

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        LMAO
        I don't care why you posted, but nobody is going to add a down vote button so peeps like the OP can run around the forum slamming all of the article posters etc.

        -don
        Why not,
        People have been getting their cronies to upvote their threads.
        Why shouldn't things be evened up?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
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  • Profile picture of the author Robscom
    If all there is now is an upvote button, then there is no counterbalance to it. Silence, in this case, makes it look like a 5-star thread is deserving of it.

    Downvoting seems like a reasonable counterbalance option, IMHO.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Silence means the thread does not get upvoted...simple stuff. Too many disgruntled members here will abuse the system by attacking all of their perceived enemies with downvotes.

      That said, I do see the sparta negativity squad has arrived for almost a full muster on this thread. Impressive.

      #sparta

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author Robscom
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        Silence means the thread does not get upvoted...simple stuff. Too many disgruntled members here will abuse the system by attacking all of their perceived enemies with downvotes.

        That said, I do see the sparta negativity squad has arrived for almost a full muster on this thread. Impressive.

        #sparta

        -don
        I guess. But I know that when I view a vid on YouTube, I take the downvotes with a grain of salt if there is a much greater proportion of upvotes. However, if a vid has mostly downvotes, I know not to bother watching it (usually).

        WTH is #sparta?
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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          Originally Posted by Robscom View Post

          WTH is #sparta?
          A group of members flooded onto this thread today that are regular members of a competing internet marketing forum. The OP called them to muster on that forum, and they have arrived guns a blazing to support his position.

          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Robscom
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            A group of members flooded onto this thread today that are regular members of a competing internet marketing forum. The OP called them to muster on that forum, and they have arrived guns a blazing to support his position.

            Cheers

            -don
            Oh.
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            "Do. Or do not. There is no 'try.'" -- Yoda
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    I don't really think that an upvote system is necessary. Isn't that kind of what the 'Thanks' function is already for?

    Maybe make the 'Thanks' on the original thread post somehow translate into an upvote sort of thing, but I don't think we need both.

    If you are going to add up/down/sideways votes, then I would suggest having it replace the 'thanks' function.

    I know another marketing forum that added both. They have a 'thanks' button and a thumbs up / thumbs down system. So when do you use one and not the other? When do you use both? It is just kind of confusing to the membership in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      I don't really think that an upvote system is necessary. Isn't that kind of what the 'Thanks' function is already for?
      No, the thanks button does not bump threads to the top of the feed. The upvoted threads are selectable by time period. A really cool feature, I think.



      Maybe make the 'Thanks' on the original thread post somehow translate into an upvote sort of thing, but I don't think we need both.
      Not a good idea IMO, it adds even more room for abuse.
      If you are going to add up/down/sideways votes, then I would suggest having it replace the 'thanks' function.
      The two features have completely different functions. Personally, I don't care if WF eliminated the thanks button and hid everyone's thanks counts from public view. It's being abused by so many members now that it's become a lot less valuable then it ever was, almost useless IMO.


      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

        Not a good idea IMO, it adds even more room for abuse.

        What? How does it add more room for abuse? I was suggesting making the thanks button have the same functionality as the up vote button. Either can be abused in the same way.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    So again, can someone explain to me why a forum would need a thanks feature and an up vote feature. Why not just one or the other and have that one do the work of both features?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative. I had this same discussion on another marketing forum that has both. Why would I "thank" someone versus giving them an "up vote"? I never really got a real answer there. I think it just gets confusing to the membership.

    And I'm with Don. I could care less if the Thanks all disappeared tomorrow.

    If an up/down vote system is going to be used it needs to be in the main forum layout too. Not just the feed. I don't know of anyone who likes or uses the feed unless they can't figure out how to get back to the traditional forum view.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      So again, can someone explain to me why a forum would need a thanks feature and an up vote feature. Why not just one or the other and have that one do the work of both features?
      Never messed with upvotes but thought those were for threads and thanks were for posts. I can like a thread without caring for the OP. down votes run into the same problem social sites have struggled with adding dislikes. down votes and dislikes tend toward being more abused - people will down vote or dislike for all kinds of personal reasons.

      All of this discussion is dependent on if this is even a real discussion or as the screen shot don showed just a crank thread for jollies at another wannabe competing forum. Since I presume the screenshot was from your site Mike you might wish to confirm or deny that the post in question screened shot is whats driving this thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Never messed with upvotes but thought those were for threads and thanks were for posts. I can like a thread without caring for the OP. down votes run into the same problem social sites have struggled with adding dislikes. down votes and dislikes tend toward being more abused - people will down vote or dislike for all kinds of personal reasons.

        All of this discussion is dependent on if this is even a real discussion or as the screen shot don showed just a crank thread for jollies at another wannabe competing forum. Since I presume the screenshot was from your site Mike you might wish to confirm or deny that the post in question screened shot is whats driving this thread.
        The post is not there, so you can get off of that.

        Okay simple answer. So up/down votes are for the original post only.

        See where I have seen them before, they are throughout the entire thread. Which, like I said, just did not make any sense. Why have both systems then?

        And yes a down vote system can be abused, but so can a up vote or thanks system. You and I both know over the years there have been a lot of the circle-jerk WSO launch crowd that did that kind of thing to help eachother out. Having a down vote system might help to outweigh some of that, maybe.

        I think you just implement a system and hope that the majority will outweigh the abusers, which are hopefully the minority.

        And if there is a up / down vote system, it needs to stay out of the paid advertising section. Those people are paying for ads. They shouldn't have to run the risk of a pissed off buyer or competitor messing with their thread anymore than they already have to.
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          .

          Okay simple answer. So up/down votes are for the original post only.
          You upvote the entire thread --> educational threads etc so viewers can see valuable, informational threads.

          Nobody wants to read posts from someone with 5,000 thanks they received for trolling newbies and bashing the forum.

          People viewing this forum for the first time will probably get more value than clicking to the OT or MInd Warriors etc. Trending and upvoting and all that...it's where it's at these days.

          The feed view is another decent FL idea, but there again, the same old gaggle of complainers shot the feed view all to hell when they implemented it.

          FL may have been trying to step into the future, that's a bit unfortunate for them because most of the vocal old-timers still here are still stuck in the past. The time has passed for some of these old-timers MIke, you gotta admit it.

          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            You upvote the entire thread --> educational threads etc so viewers can see valuable, informational threads.
            Thats pretty much my understanding and as we all know a bad OP can turn into a good thread so its not the same thing as a thank would do which is only post specific.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Thats pretty much my understanding and as we all know a bad OP can turn into a good thread so its not the same thing as a thank would do which is only post specific.
              My thinking was the thanks on the original post could handle that, but you make a worthwhile point there. I remember a certain 15+ page long thread involving a couple of brothers that mostly started out as total junk turned into something fairly worthwhile.

              So again, as long as both systems are not implemented throughout every post, then it makes sense to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      I'm not trying to be argumentative. I had this same discussion on another marketing forum that has both. Why would I "thank" someone versus giving them an "up vote"? I never really got a real answer there.
      The upvote button increases best thread visibilty, the thanks button does not. More best thread visibility, more traffic to the good threads.

      Mike and I have pretty much covered the rest, I would think. If not, it's pretty easy to figure out for smart marketers that know lots about drawing traffic and running forums.

      And I'm with Don. I could care less if the Thanks all disappeared tomorrow.
      Bravo, we finally agree again.

      BTW, did you close your OT, or did you just block me from seeing it? What up man, I racked up like 6 likes in 0 posts over there.

      Clue me in on what's up.

      Cheers

      -don
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        I'm trying to have a serious conversation.

        And my point was why not combine the functionality and have them do both? I don't really see a good reason to make them separate.

        If like Mike suggested, the voting is only on the OP, fine. That makes sense. What I said though was that when I have seen these things implemented on other forums, they exist on every individual post, and that made no sense.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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  • Profile picture of the author dansilvestre
    This is actually a valid concern/request. Put your personal affairs aside and discuss it like grown ups.

    For me personally I don't agree with having a down vote button, mainly because it encourages negativity. Ideally we want to encourage the opposite, to give props to someone who is doing a good job/posting good content.

    That being said, I do understand that "Silence (...) makes it look like a 5-star thread is deserving of it" as a argument. However, there is a reason why Facebook doesn't have a down vote button: negativity.
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      This is actually a valid concern/request. Put your personal affairs aside and discuss it like grown ups.

      For me personally I don't agree with having a down vote button, mainly because it encourages negativity. Ideally we want to encourage the opposite, to give props to someone who is doing a good job/posting good content.

      That being said, I do understand that "Silence (...) makes it look like a 5-star thread is deserving of it" as a argument. However, there is a reason why Facebook doesn't have a down vote button: negativity.
      Sometimes reality is referred to as negativity especially on this forum.

      Let's just bury our heads in the sand and pretend everything posted here is gospel.
      God forbid anyone that has an opinion that doesn't conform to the herd.
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      • Profile picture of the author dansilvestre
        @lgibbon, @RegionalWarrior: read my first sentence again.

        @MikeFriedman: I do understand this could be gamified (as most things can). However, I still believe we would have a lot more to lose if we "encourage" or at least open up the possibility of negativity. There is always the report thread option.

        @Khemosabi/Theresa: emojis allow different reactions but none are inherently negative as a downvote. You can just be "surprised" or "perplexed" I guess.

        Getting disliked also means less motivation to keep posting threads/posts to users.

        Dwelling a little bit more into Facebook not having a dislike button:

        "You know, it took us awhile to get here. Because you know, we didn't want to just build a Dislike button because we don't want to turn Facebook into a forum where people are voting up or down on people's posts. That doesn't seem like the kind of community we want to create. You don't want to go through the process of sharing some moment that's important to you in your day and then have someone down vote it. That isn't what we're here to build in the world."

        Full article found here if you are interested.

        This is something that we have given a lot of thought to implement. But again the downside is far far greater than the upside.

        Right now it's not going to happen.

        We can however discuss other great ways to improve our user experience here.

        Thanks all for participating and I remind you - once again - to keep your personal wars aside and discuss this like adults that hopefully we all are.
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    • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      This is actually a valid concern/request. Put your personal affairs aside and discuss it like grown ups.

      For me personally I don't agree with having a down vote button, mainly because it encourages negativity. Ideally we want to encourage the opposite, to give props to someone who is doing a good job/posting good content.

      That being said, I do understand that "Silence (...) makes it look like a 5-star thread is deserving of it" as a argument. However, there is a reason why Facebook doesn't have a down vote button: negativity.
      Dan this started out as legit idea only that It was hijacked by Dung for his own agenda and anyone else who did not agree with his Idealism was wrong

      I was under the impression that the up vote was going to be on the main board and with all the crap on there of late I thought the down vote would even it out

      Also some of the comments made at some of the warriors in this thread should be looked at and dealt with

      So just to clear up any idiots idea that this was to stir the pot it was not , but the bit about asking other warriors to come here for support is as so this was not railroaded by one person agenda for an area that will not be around in a few weeks!!

      Jason
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      This is actually a valid concern/request. Put your personal affairs aside and discuss it like grown ups.

      For me personally I don't agree with having a down vote button, mainly because it encourages negativity. Ideally we want to encourage the opposite, to give props to someone who is doing a good job/posting good content.

      That being said, I do understand that "Silence (...) makes it look like a 5-star thread is deserving of it" as a argument. However, there is a reason why Facebook doesn't have a down vote button: negativity.
      Dan,

      That is a legitimate concern, but so is someone abusing the upvote system by getting together a group of buddies to vote something up giving it more exposure. I could even see that being a gig offered on Fiverr.

      It is actually in a way more scary than the current thanks system. In my opinion, 'thanks' have zero value on the worth of a post that someone makes, but to a lot of people it does. However, it has no impact on the actual visibility of anything the member posts. The upvote system does.

      I have to believe that the trolls and the abusive members who would try to exploit it are the vast minority in this community and that the overall membership would outweigh a small group of people trying hard to downvote something.

      Perhaps to compromise a little bit, if something has negative downvotes, that would not be displayed publicly and there would be no public notifications of how anyone voted.

      Your concern is very valid though. I could see some members not only downvoting something that a new member posted, but then publicly stating that they downvoted it and belittling the new member. That could be a real turnoff to new members. Heck, it could be a real turn off to old members.
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    • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      This is actually a valid concern/request. Put your personal affairs aside and discuss it like grown ups.

      For me personally I don't agree with having a down vote button, mainly because it encourages negativity. Ideally we want to encourage the opposite, to give props to someone who is doing a good job/posting good content.

      That being said, I do understand that "Silence (...) makes it look like a 5-star thread is deserving of it" as a argument. However, there is a reason why Facebook doesn't have a down vote button: negativity.
      Dan,
      I see your point on the encouraging negativity. FB has added a feature that you're allowed to "react" now. Via an emoji.

      The down vote button, being an option, might encourage people to no post crap and encourage more experienced people to chime in and direct questions and answers the right way?

      Your articles (good God, not the thread), that are being posted can and should, turn out to be a good thing. Having the down vote option, would that not encourage some to post more quality? Legitimate question.

      It's kind of a pot to stir! As mentioned, everything can be gamed, I get that, and I really do understand your reluctance to applying more negativity! However, upvoting something of no value is just that, no value. It's confusing to your new members, the legitimate ones needing some help.

      ~ Theresa
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Let's take a look at a few more of the facts.

        These guys have measured how up-voting and down-voting influences the behaviour of a large number of contributors to different social networks. And they say that the results are far from reassuring.

        The evidence is that a contributor who is down-voted produces lower quality content in future that is valued even less by others on the network. What’s more, people are more likely to down-vote others after they have been down voted themselves. The result is a vicious spiral of increasingly negative behaviour that is exactly the opposite of the intended effect
        .
        The results are something of an eye-opener. “We find that negative feedback leads to significant behavioural changes that are detrimental to the community,” say Cheng and co.
        Data Mining Reveals How The “Down-Vote” Leads To A Vicious Circle Of Negative Feedback
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  • Profile picture of the author Gallag97
    sounds good, I'm in
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  • Profile picture of the author neshaword
    OP stands for... OT stands for.. Thx. N
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    • Profile picture of the author Robscom
      Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

      OP stands for... OT stands for.. Thx. N
      OP = Original Post/Original Poster/First post(er) in the thread

      OT = Off Topic/Off Topic Forum
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      "Do. Or do not. There is no 'try.'" -- Yoda
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  • Profile picture of the author Gambino
    I don't care what they do as long as they make it possible to access the forum via mobile. This current feed BS makes the forum nearly worthless and unusable. I'll give it another week then I guess I'll have to find somewhere else to go or have more time to myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author dansilvestre
    Should have closed this, my bad.

    Thanks
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