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Unread 8th Jun 2016, 08:34 PM   #1
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Hey Warriors,

We've decided to collate all the forum rules in one place to reduce confusion and make it easier for everyone to know what is and is not allowed on the forum.

We've also made small changes to the rules where we've seen a need, these changes will be gradually enforced over the coming weeks.

These will be updated when necessary.
  1. General
    1. You are only permitted one account per person.
    2. Username changes are not permitted.
    3. Do not harass, personally attack, blackmail, spam or bully buyers and/or other Warrior Forum members.
    4. The selling of accounts is prohibited
    5. Shameless self promotion such as 'see my sig' or 'pm me for more details' is prohibited.
    6. In line links are allowed and even encouraged as long as they are not selling anything and expand specifically on the concept being discussed. Marketplace listings are of course exempt from this rule.
    7. If you have a problem with anyone, take it up with them privately. No naming or shaming here since there are two sides to every story.

  2. Contributing to the Forum
    1. Excessive use of capitalization, special characters, colours or font/image size will result in deletion/editing by an admin of the title and/or body of the post.
    2. We retain the right to move threads to more suitable sub forums where applicable.
    3. Posting must add value to the relevant discussion. To thank someone for a contribution use the ‘thanks’ button or upvote the discussion.
    4. Excessive consecutive posts in a single thread by the same author may be merged into one post.

  3. Signatures
    1. Excessive use of capitalization and/or special characters will result in deletion/editing by an admin. If you want to be safe don't use any, however, If it's done tastefully we won't mind. Tastefulness is subjective and up to our discretion.
    2. Sig files may only be written in the normal standard font size.
    3. Sig file text may only be black.
    4. You may bold or italicize it.
    5. Maximum length of sig file is 2 lines which includes any blank lines used for spaces. This excludes an image.
    6. Your signature must link to your own domain or a listing owned by you on any of the Warrior Market Places. If you have paid for an image signature you are exempt from this rule.
    7. Your signature cannot link to any of the blacklisted content types as detailed in Rule 4.10 below.

  4. Sellers (Applies to entire sales funnel)
    See here https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...uncements.html
  5. Buyers
    1. Don’t solicit review copies.

  6. Conflict Resolution
    1. If an accused or suspect fraudulent review is posted an example proof of purchase may be required by the sellers and the buyer. Upon match a course of action will be decided. Any attempt gaming this by either party will result in a permanent ban.
    2. If a guarantee is offered and not honoured within a reasonable time this will result in a permanent ban.
    3. When offering a service, quotes on price and ETA must be provided in the original thread or through private message. If no correspondence occurs, in absence of sufficient evidence of the works completion. Warrior Forum will side with the buyer.


Violation of any of these rules by a user can result in a warning up to permanent account suspension. The course of action will depend upon the severity of the situation, the nature of the violation and past behaviour.

Change Log:
[2016-09-2 9:35]
[2016-06-15 12:30]
  • Added old Rule #1 which is now Rule 1.7


[2016-06-10 16:20]
  • Clarification surrounding self promotion.
  • Clarification around external links.
  • Clarification surrounding sig special characters.

[2016-06-10 16:00]
  • Clarification surrounding what is allowed in Guarantees

[2016-06-09 14:25]
  • Added prohibited content as detailed in 4.10 to signature links.
  • Clarified exemption of Warrior Market Place listing links in signatures.
  • Clarified exemption of the Warrior Classified Market place in PLR ban.
  • Clarified testimonial to pertain only to the product being sold.

Last edited on 14th Mar 2018 at 02:33 AM.
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Unread 8th Jun 2016, 09:00 PM   #2
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re: Warrior Forum Rule
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Thanks, Moss and forum team. Looks like there is a lot to chew on there.

A couple questions/comments (if this isn't the appropriate place for questions, maybe you should start a thread where they can be asked because I'm sure there will be a lot of feedback):

1. It would be great if the no-no items in 4.10 were also included in the sig rules.
2. Does 3.6 apply to Fiverr, our own WSO, a lead page on a 3rd party provider such as leadpages.net?
3. Is the blatant violation of rule 2.3 reportable when we see them or not?
4. Rule 4.4 will eliminate a lot of offers in the Classified section. Previously the WSO section had to be unique offers but things like PLR could be posted in the Classified area. Is that the intention?
5. Testimonials and reviews should apply to the current offer not previous products in my opinion. Without this being in place, it would seem that a brand new offer that may be awful has a lot of positive feedback.

Mark

Edit: Is there or is there not a rule against self-promotion such as "see my sig", "PM me for more details", etc?
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Unread 8th Jun 2016, 10:14 PM   #3
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Hey Mark,

Really appreciate your prompt input.

I'm happy to continue this conversation here, the caveat is that we'll be strict with removing off topic contribution. Considered feedback is welcomed though.

With respect to your feedback:
1. Agree completely.
2. 3.6 does apply to Fiverr. WSO's under your username are an exception. Anything hosted on a domain you own is also allowed.
3. Yes, feel free to report it. It'll be at the discretion of the team as to whether or not it'll be actioned. I imagine we'll end up seeing some edge cases where there's disagreement on what is value and what isn't, however we should be able to start removing some useless one liner responses.
4. PLR will continue to be allowed in the Classified section for now.
5. Agreed, it can be misleading. Testimonials should pertain to the relevant product.

I've updated the rules to reflect these changes.

Thanks again for the constructive input.

Moss
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 12:08 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by moss View Post

Guarantee may or may not be offered. If offered they must be non conditional.
Does this apply to service offers?

Should this not be at discretion of sellers and the market decides?
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 12:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

Does this apply to service offers?

Should this not be at discretion of sellers and the market decides?
Yes, it applies to all offers.

It is the sellers discretion whether or not to offer a guarantee.

The issue with allowing conditional guarantees is the slippery slope that it creates with increasingly convoluted conditions.
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 01:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by moss View Post

The issue with allowing conditional guarantees is the slippery slope that it creates with increasingly convoluted conditions.
The forum is not part of the transaction between a buyer and seller. We have no ability to force a refund or any other action by a third party. We are limited to reducing or removing access by parties we believe may be acting improperly or who violate the forum or WSO rules as described here.
I don't think "convolution" is the issue.

More the ability and/or willingness to understand guarantee.

A more appropriate revision would be "clearly understood guarantee must be present".
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 01:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

I don't think "convolution" is the issue.

More the ability and/or willingness to understand guarantee.

A more appropriate revision would be "clearly understood guarantee must be present".
I respectfully disagree on this point.

My phrasing of "convoluted" was more meant as a misrepresentation of what the buyer understands he's being guaranteed and the reality of what will be honoured..

Clear understanding of a guarantee does not equal a clear understanding of when that guarantee should or should not be enforced.

Take for example "100% Money back guarantee, conditional on you providing me with evidence that you did what was instructed and it failed."

This is a by all means clearly understandable guarantee. The clarity on exactly what is required to receive it is lacking though. How do you prove you executed and it failed? I might well have executed it to the best of my ability, but not identically and suddenly the assumption that I would have this backed by a guarantee is now gone.

This is the type of situation we are trying to avoid.

Peoples experience on the site and marketplace are our responsibility.
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 02:54 AM   #8
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I agree in certain offers this is the case and I 100% agree. For example, coaching offers "Prove you can put in the work and you get your $2000 back". Can of worms.

But this isn't always the case.

... Rarely is.

A lot of sellers offer legitimate money back guarantees that can be objectively measured that even Blind Betty can see.

For example, when delivering guaranteed acceptance on Wikipedia or full money back.

Sellers want to offer this because so buyers know that they will not pay anything in the event that Wikipedia does not accept their site.

Under the new rule, a buyer is entitled to a full refund, regardless of whether or not they get what they get their page published in Wikipedia.

Another example: delivery within 15 days or get a full refund. New rule: refund whenever you want.

Do you see the problem?

Or have I misunderstood the rule?
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 10:16 AM   #9
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A most excellent clarification of the rules! Especially pleased to see the "not allowed" items and the tightening of sig rules and enforcement. The WF has been advertising Fiverr far too much.

I think the important points of refunds were covered. A refund is not a guaranteed option - but if a seller uses "refund" as a sales tool he has to honor it. At the same time, buyers need to realize "a refund" isn't guaranteed for everything they buy on the WF.

The way the rules are laid out here - there is no excuse to say "I didn't know".

Mark covered my thoughts in his initial post and it's great to see such a quick response to his concerns.

kay

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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 10:29 AM   #10
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Great thread and a great rules update, moss! This has been much needed, and thanks for taking our suggestions.

One point:

Originally Posted by moss View Post

Posting must add value to the relevant discussion. To thank someone for a contribution use the ‘thanks’ button or upvote the discussion.
I agree with this 100% --> but what happened to my upvote option? It's been gone for months. Alaister insured that I had the upvote button early on, but sometime over the past few months it has disappeared.

Is it a bug? It's hard to upvote threads when we either don't have the option, or a bug has removed the option. So who is supposed to have access to the upvote function? Everyone, I expect...

I'll post in suggestions...a suggestion that you guy's fix the Upvote buttons --> and I will file a ticket if I don't see it soon.

Thanks again for the great rules update, it's been sorely needed for a long while.

Best of luck!

-don
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 11:17 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=moss;10715911]
  1. Signatures
    1. Excessive use of capitalization, special characters will result in deletion/editing by an admin.
    2. Sig files may only be written in the normal standard font size.
Hi Moss,
Much needed set of rules there.
You might want to clarify the sig file rule to something like:
"Sig files may only be written using letters of the alphabet"
Already there is a little confusion for some over the use of special characters.
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 11:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

You might want to clarify the sig file rule to something like:
"Sig files may only be written using letters of the alphabet"
@moss

Respectfully, I am not in favor of the suggestion that was just made.

Example: I have 3 little asterisks on either side of my link to your rules, and I have two six character arrows pointing to my WSO.

IMO, the rule should stay with the "excessive" wording or maybe a 20 or 26 (or whatever number) special character limit, if the rule is to be revised. It's pretty obvious that what I am using is not excessive.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 12:22 PM   #13
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IMO, the rule should stay with...
....the way I choose to interpret it


No, it shouldn't....
Yes, it should...

Come on, guys - let the mods sort it out. THEY will decide what can and can't be used and THEY can decide who is violating rules and who isn't.

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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 12:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

....the way I choose to interpret it
No, it shouldn't....Yes, it should...
Come on, guys - let the mods sort it out. THEY will decide what can and can't be used and THEY can decide who is violating rules and who isn't.
Seriously?

Moss is taking revision suggestions...I know you have noticed a few of those above, eh?

Maybe you should have let the mods decide if we were violating the rules when we made our revision suggestions... Heck, your latest reply may have even violated the no bullying rule [1.3].

LG is clearly making a revision suggestion, and it's a suggestion that does make some sense.

Without a clearly defined sig special character limit ---> it may make more work for the mod team fielding the illegal sig reports. It also makes more work for member mods as we don't really know what "characters" to report or not report. Sure, something outrageous is easy to spot. Others, not so much. One thing that I do know, it would provide more consistency in the way the sig reports are acted upon.

My point of posting is to make the suggestion that the rule should be revised to include a specific special character limit, if the rule is going to be revised at all. Obviously, myself and many others do not want to see the use of ALL special characters eliminated - which is exactly what LG has proposed.

My suggestion is another example of a perfectly legitimate revision suggestion.

Both of our replies are appropriate for this thread...moss can decide to leave the rule as is, or he can accept either of our revisions.

His suggestion makes sense, and so does mine. As you have seen with your own eyes, I have already been jumped for *supposedly* having too many special characters in my sig. LMAO

Both of us basically want much of the same thing --> a bit more clarity on what will be allowed and what will not.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 04:01 PM   #15
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@moss

I'm bumping this as I noticed that you responded to Mark's original suggestions, but you may have missed his edit.

This one most definitely needs to be in there, and it's been strictly enforced in the past.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

Edit: Is there or is there not a rule against self-promotion such as "see my sig", "PM me for more details", etc?
The restriction is a no-brainer... If you can't (or don't know how to) contact a member discreetly, or personally, then you probably don't need to be posting anyway.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 07:58 PM   #16
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Regarding this rule:

Signatures
"6. Your signature must link to your own domain or a listing owned by you on any of the Warrior Market Places. If you have paid for an image signature you are exempt from this rule."

I would really encourage you to rethink allowing affiliate links in signatures with paid images. There is already a ton of low quality sig-spamming posts by people with image sigs and allowing aff links in signatures of people who paid for image sigs is only going to make it much worse.
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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 11:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

You might want to clarify the sig file rule to something like:
"Sig files may only be written using letters of the alphabet"
Already there is a little confusion for some over the use of special characters.
Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

IMO, the rule should stay with the "excessive" wording or maybe a 20 or 26 (or whatever number) special character limit, if the rule is to be revised. It's pretty obvious that what I am using is not excessive.
Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Come on, guys - let the mods sort it out. THEY will decide what can and can't be used and THEY can decide who is violating rules and who isn't.
This will be decided by mods on a sig by sig basis.

The easier way to not get your sig edited is to not have any special characters or capitalization at all.

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Unread 9th Jun 2016, 11:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

I would really encourage you to rethink allowing affiliate links in signatures with paid images. There is already a ton of low quality sig-spamming posts by people with image sigs and allowing aff links in signatures of people who paid for image sigs is only going to make it much worse.
If you are paying to have an image signature then it's only fair that you decide where it redirects to.

This rule will stay as it is now.

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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 12:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

I agree in certain offers this is the case and I 100% agree. For example, coaching offers "Prove you can put in the work and you get your $2000 back". Can of worms.

But this isn't always the case.

... Rarely is.

A lot of sellers offer legitimate money back guarantees that can be objectively measured that even Blind Betty can see.

For example, when delivering guaranteed acceptance on Wikipedia or full money back.

Sellers want to offer this because so buyers know that they will not pay anything in the event that Wikipedia does not accept their site.

Under the new rule, a buyer is entitled to a full refund, regardless of whether or not they get what they get their page published in Wikipedia.

Another example: delivery within 15 days or get a full refund. New rule: refund whenever you want.

Do you see the problem?

Or have I misunderstood the rule?
Ok, I understand where you're coming from now.

I've explicitly added the case of a windowed guarantee. It also seems a lot about what we're discussing is where the burden of fulfillments lies with conditions being met. The defining element seems to be that if it's conditional on a seller doing something that's ok, however, It's not ok if it's conditional on the buyer.

Does sound better? I've updated the rules with what I think is a more comprehensive clarification of this. Let me know if you or anyone else can see any issues either way with it.
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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 12:34 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

@moss

I'm bumping this as I noticed that you responded to Mark's original suggestions, but you may have missed his edit.

This one most definitely needs to be in there, and it's been strictly enforced in the past.



The restriction is a no-brainer... If you can't (or don't know how to) contact a member discreetly, or personally, then you probably don't need to be posting anyway.

Cheers

-don
I did miss this with the first pass of corrections. This is Rule 1.5 now.
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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 01:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by moss View Post

Ok, I understand where you're coming from now.

I've explicitly added the case of a windowed guarantee. It also seems a lot about what we're discussing is where the burden of fulfillments lies with conditions being met. The defining element seems to be that if it's conditional on a seller doing something that's ok, however, It's not ok if it's conditional on the buyer.

Does sound better? I've updated the rules with what I think is a more comprehensive clarification of this. Let me know if you or anyone else can see any issues either way with it.
Thanks. Yes it 100% is better and I personally believe works for both buyers and sellers.

There are also the sticky rules in the WSO Marketplace that remain there so it's unclear if those rules should be followed in addition to the above or if they are "pending deletion". e.g. rule 16 isn't mentioned in the "new new" rules, but is in the "new" rules.


If you want my input for other ideas always welcome to pm / email me.
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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 05:11 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

@moss

Respectfully, I am not in favor of the suggestion that was just made.

Example: I have 3 little asterisks on either side of my link to your rules, and I have two six character arrows pointing to my WSO.

IMO, the rule should stay with the "excessive" wording or maybe a 20 or 26 (or whatever number) special character limit, if the rule is to be revised. It's pretty obvious that what I am using is not excessive.

Cheers

-don
I completely disagree. They should just get rid of special characters rather than saying not to use them excessively.

The more straightforward you make the rules and the less you leave them up to interpretation, the easier you make the job of the mods. They have enough to do.
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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 07:04 AM   #23
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You are only permitted one account per person.
Some "members" have numerous shill (an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.) profiles. How are you going to decide which one stays?

Do not harass, personally attack, blackmail, spam or bully buyers and/or other Warrior Forum members.
So, no calling out liars, scammers and other assorted low-lifes who will rob your less experienced members blind if given half a chance, fill the forum with mis-information, and generally detract from it's usefulness?

Good luck with that.

Shameless self promotion such as 'see my sig' or 'pm me for more details' is prohibited
I gave up reporting these a while ago because it did no good. Rules are meaningless without competent moderators to enforce them.

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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 08:31 AM   #24
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Very serious question, Moss...

Is Rule #1 gone? If so, that means it's open season to name names and rant rants?

Always thought that was one of the most useful rules here - because you only get one side of the story...

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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 10:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JC Web View Post


I would really encourage you to rethink allowing affiliate links in signatures with paid images. There is already a ton of low quality sig-spamming posts by people with image sigs and allowing aff links in signatures of people who paid for image sigs is only going to make it much worse.
Yes it's total madness.
There has been a constant battle for years getting rid of the affiliate
link spammers sent here in their droves.
Once they hear about this turn around one can't begin to imagine the effect it will have.

$5 a month for unlimited spamming must be a pretty good deal for them.
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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 10:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

The more straightforward you make the rules and the less you leave them up to interpretation, the easier you make the job of the mods. They have enough to do.
Certainly, and it's exactly why I recommended a specific character limit earlier in the thread.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

Without a clearly defined sig special character limit ---> it may make more work for the mod team fielding the illegal sig reports. It also makes more work for member mods as we don't really know what "characters" to report or not report. Sure, something outrageous is easy to spot. Others, not so much. One thing that I do know, it would provide more consistency in the way the sig reports are acted upon.
No, it's not as easy as as saying we are eliminating all use of special characters, I fully realize that. And don't forget, you have still have an extra line in your sig --> we certainly don't want someone reporting you!

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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 10:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by vedremo View Post

There are also the sticky rules in the WSO Marketplace that remain there so it's unclear if those rules should be followed in addition to the above or if they are "pending deletion". e.g. rule 16 isn't mentioned in the "new new" rules, but is in the "new" rules.
@Moss

This was exactly where I was going with my next line of questions.

#1) What about free WSOs? Are they still going to be sent to classifieds?

#2) Are $1 WSOs the lowest priced offer that will remain in the main WSO section?

#3) The overall applicability of the WSO section rules --> are they still in force? If so, will they be added to this rules collation?

Personally, I prefer to sell front-end products priced between $5 and $35 and I hate seeing the WSO section flooded with a bunch of - not worth much stuff - put there just to collect optins and buyer information. Most are not really a Special Offer, IMO.

Of course it's your call completely... But I can tell you as a purchaser of more than 100 WSOs over the years I quit shopping here when the section became flooded with free and $1 offers.

So flooded with free and $1 stuff that I quit bumping my WSO thread too.

Please advise.

Thanks

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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 10:59 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

Certainly, and it's exactly why I recommended a specific character limit earlier in the thread.
To me, it just seems awfully silly to make the mods count characters.

Far easier to just disallow them altogether, and it would not hurt the forum one bit.

I would suggest either special characters are okay or they are not, and not make some okay but some not okay.
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Unread 10th Jun 2016, 11:42 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

It's silly to me to make the mods count characters.

Far easier to just disallow them altogether, and it would not hurt the forum one bit.
Of course it's silly.

If a member mod sees something that looks like 137 characters and the the limit was 25 it's a quick report and a quick fix. Same thing goes if a member sees 40 asterisks on either side of a " MIllion Today - Click Here" sig ...it's easy to spot and it's an easy fix.

Ultimately, I don't really care if special characters are eliminated ---> but I sure don't want to be the guy to go through thousands of Warrior accounts looking for an asterisk, an arrow, or anything else in their sig files. Will they run a script to do it for them? I seriously doubt it.

Secondarily, it's probably not really all that fair to clock the new members (and frequent members) with a rule ---> when probably thousands, or tens of thousands of past members, and not so frequent members have already posted content to these boards with a few characters in their sigs.

Obviously, changing all of those sigs is not all that feasible...so I suspect that's one of the reasons special characters will still be allowed.

Heck, I want to see how long it takes them to enforce the new 2 line sig rule. How long do you think it will take to get all of the 5 liners removed from these boards?

Yeah....I am hoping it ain't the case, but I suspect we may see 5 liners on here for a long time to come. Will FL eventually run a board tool forum wide that chops all the 5 liners down to 2? I dunno, but I rather doubt it. If they do, good on them!

Getting rid of the five liners will be a wide enough task, and you want to get rid of all of the special characters too? Good luck with that.

I just don't see it. What I envision happening under your scenario goes something like this...

#1 The board becomes a big mix of peeps with 5 liners and peeps with 2 liners...not really all that fair to the 2 liners as site wide enforcement will be very slow, I am guessing. I suspect a good number of ---> hey this guy has 5 lines reports will be made.

#2 The board becomes a mix of peeps with a few special characters and those without. Also not my idea of an ideal implementation of a new rule.

#3 Peeps start complaining to the mods ---> this guy has special characters and I don't.

#4 Peeps start reporting all special characters ---> making even more work for the mods. They have enough to do already with the new 2 line sig rule.

I think the way the rule is worded now will work relatively well, but only time will tell. Remember, I only proposed the limit in rebuttal to LG's suggestion to restrict everything ---> that is only reason why I mentioned a character limit in the first place.

I was OK with the way the rule was initially written knowing it was a little vague. I do think the rule is a bit better now that is has been revised. I am not opposed to eliminating the rule all together, but apparently these guys want to keep the gaudy stuff off the boards.

3.1 Excessive use of capitalization and/or special characters will result in deletion/editing by an admin. If you want to be safe don't use any, however, If it's done tastefully we won't mind. Tastefulness is subjective and up to our discretion.
Cheers

-don
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Unread 11th Jun 2016, 01:55 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

If you are paying to have an image signature then it's only fair that you decide where it redirects to.

This rule will stay as it is now.
By that logic, Google Adwords, Bing, and Facebook shouldn't care about the landing page I send paid ads to...but they do.

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Unread 11th Jun 2016, 06:52 AM   #31
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My question may have gotten lost in discussions so I'm repeating it here....

Very serious question, Moss...

Is Rule #1 gone? If so, that means it's open season to name names and rant rants?
Rule #1 has stopped people from joining here only to rant about money they lost or a service that was (in their view) inferior...or another member they feel took advantage of them.

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Unread 12th Jun 2016, 01:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

IMO, the rule should stay with the "excessive" wording or maybe a 20 or 26 (or whatever number) special character limit, if the rule is to be revised. It's pretty obvious that what I am using is not excessive.

Cheers

-don
Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

No, it's not as easy as as saying we are eliminating all use of special characters, I fully realize that. And don't forget, you have still have an extra line in your sig --> we certainly don't want someone reporting you!

Cheers

-don
[quote]***Read The New Forum Rules Prior To Posting***
-----> This Guru Delivers the Goods <-----
[/quote]

Or violating the rule about using bold, to say nothing of one link implying endorsement by the forum by linking to the new rules and then one's WSO...

@moss

I understand the need to comply with Australian laws regarding advertising, but if you are going to require that, perhaps you could also provide links to resources similar to the FTC's in the USA that try to simplify hundreds of pages of legalese into practical guidelines.

Re: affiliate links

I interpreted the exemption for paid images in sigs as an exemption from the rule prohibiting images, not affiliate links. Allowing affiliate links and their cousins, links to company provided MLM pages, would land this place back in the state that nearly did it in a few years ago.

Please say it isn't so.

Other input:

> I agree with Kate, the old RULE 1 blanket about venting private disputes or feuds on the public forums kept a lot of the confrontational crap off the boards.

> I'd like to see a rule against treating the forum as the universal support site for every software, service, theme, plugin, script, etc. used out there by people too lazy to use that thing's support functions. For example, Wordpress has an extensive forum system of their own, as do Aweber, Leadpages, etc.
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Unread 12th Jun 2016, 03:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

Or violating the rule about using bold, to say nothing of one link implying endorsement by the forum by linking to the new rules and then one's WSO...
LMAO --> You may want to read the rules again! Specifically rule 3.4.



If Moss or Dan thought something was wrong with my sig I figure they would have said something to me when I used my signature as an example in an earlier reply.

Pointing people to the rules is a good thing as it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of the people on here have not read them, especially the new members, and especially the new rules.

As you can see from the whopping view count on this thread, this baby is not all that hot. Especially considering the fact that:

#1) Warrior Forum had some sort of announce bar at the top of some of the forum pages for a while.

#2) A notification thread with this link is posted in the main discussion forum

#3) A notification thread with this link is posted in the off topic discussion forum

#4) I have made probably a dozen posts or more since putting the link in my sig.

#5) The link now appears on all of my previous posts.

Wow....without these links to the new rules what view count do we have down here? Either way, the view count is a lot lower than what I'm sure many would like to see.

What good does it do to take the time and effort to craft a new set of rules if nobody sees them? Yeah, that's what I thought.

It's a great thing to inform the forum members of the rules. If everyone reads the rules a couple of times before they start firing away this place will be a whole lot better off.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 13th Jun 2016, 03:34 PM   #34
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don, you got me. Funny how seeing a word that wasn't there changes the whole meaning of things.

In the words of the sage Maxwell Smart, "sorry about that, Chief."

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Unread 13th Jun 2016, 10:32 PM   #35
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Here is a question.

I get a good bit of spam email from this forum lately. Why didn't they blast one out to announce the new rules? Wouldn't that be a smart way to let members know about them?
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 08:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

Here is a question.

I get a good bit of spam email from this forum lately. Why didn't they blast one out to announce the new rules? Wouldn't that be a smart way to let members know about them?
They should consider a New Members Start Here top section just like you have at the very top of your competing internet marketing forum.



I gotta say this --> you sure are using some pretty colors for mods, admins, and inner circle members!









I suppose some folks could consider this to be a pretty impressive 8-11AM (CST) attendance this morning for a WF clone built in 2014. Hey, if you lost anything during that major cleanup you had in your OT section the other day, I'm pretty sure I can help you find what went missing.

Of course an email blast should be sent out when the rules are completed, that's a no brainer. On top of that, they really should consider moving the start here stuff to a more prominent location.

Another thing they can consider doing --> they can force members to open the rules prior to making their initial post to the forum, and make them tick a box that says they will comply before being directed to the post editor. Heck, if they wanted to do it, they could force every member to the rules prior to submitting their next thread or reply.

A couple more suggestions...

If it's not happening now, every new member that registers should receive a welcome email with the rules and/or a link to the rules.

Upon registration you can redirect the new members to the rules...a good option if you are not going to force members to a rules page prior to making their initial contribution to the forum.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 11:20 AM   #37
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Edit: Nevermind. I don't care.
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 11:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

That forum was 100% private for most of its existence.

Either way, someone is not going to be happy you mentioned that place here.
I did not name the forum and several of your members have been PMing me and many other Warriors to join for months. In-fact your members that PMed me to join have some of the highest post (and thanks) counts on Warrior Forum.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 02:33 PM   #39
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Why is there a b*tchfest about some apparent Forum Who Must Not Be Named in a discussion about the Warrior Forum Rules?

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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 03:06 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the thread.
#1) In my five screenshot post I made eight legit rules oriented suggestions that could improve Warrior Forum.

#2) Maybe we should have a rule about active solicitation of WF members via WF systems to join a competing internet forum that has just recently added a member special offer marketplace.

#3) I believe it is relevant to this rules discussion that the admins and mods know exactly who is doing most of the complaining thread after thread on Warrior Forum initiatives, moderators, members, rules etc.

Especially since a good sized gaggle of these VERY vocal opponents that bash everything Warrior Forum are members of your smallish forum circle. I'm betting it's not a coincidence, but this is not the thread to speculate why, and we have had plenty of those threads and posts already, anyway.

All I know is you have had a WF forum rant thread going on at your place for weeks blasting WF members, mods, the Community Manager, the article contributors and others.

Yes, you did a major purge the other day on that thread and deleted many posts, but not all are lost, and I'm quite certain some of those lost posts can still be found. Remember you guys and gals were having so much fun insulting WF members and mods and talking about how bad you were owning, trolling, or going to troll this forum, right?

Yes, several of your members are participating right here on this thread.

Is this helpful? A conflict of interest? Destructive? Worse?

Take this one step further...

Warrior Forum is trying to increase the content quality and viewership here, and it's obvious why. IMO, I don't think it's helpful for a group of your members to continually bash WF on threads here, and on threads over there, and to be allowed to solicit members via any WF system.

Your forum is a direct competitor to Warrior Forum in the exact same space. At this time, I don't think it's healthy for your forum to be poaching long time contributing members from here.

IF WF does not institute rule that tries to curb this, I sure hope they take it into consideration, and view future input and advice from a certain members here with a bit bigger grain of salt.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 03:21 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

#1) My 6 screenshot post included a bunch of honest legit suggestions to improve Warrior Forum

#2) Maybe we should have a rule about active solicitation of WF members via WF systems to join a competing internet forum that has just recently added a member special offer marketplace.

#3) I believe it is relevant to this rules discussion that the admins and mods know exactly who is doing most of the complaining thread after thread on Warrior Forum initiatives, moderators, members, rules etc.

Especially since a good sized gaggle of these VERY vocal opponents that bash everything Warrior Forum are members of your smallish forum circle. I'm betting it's not a coincidence, but this is not the thread to speculate why, and we have had plenty of those threads and posts already.

All I know is you have had a WF forum rant thread going on at your place for weeks blasting WF members, mods, the Community Manager, the article contributors and others.

Yes, you did a major purge the other day on that thread and deleted many posts, but not all are lost., and I'm quite certain some can still be found. Remember you guys and gals were having so much fun insulting members and mods and talking about how bad you were owning, trolling, or going to troll this forum, right?

Yes, several of your members are participating right here on this thread.

Is this helpful? A conflict of interest? Destructive? Worse?

Take this one step further...

Warrior Forum is trying to increase the content quality and viewership here, and it's obvious why. IMO, I don't think it's helpful for a group of your members to continually bash WF on threads here, and on threads over there, and to be allowed to solicit members via any PM system.

Your forum is a direct competitor to Warrior Forum in the exact same space as . At this time, I don't think it's healthy for your forum to be poaching long time contributing members from here.

IF WF does not institute rule that tries to curb this, I sure hope they take it into consideration, and view future input and advice from a certain members here with a bit bigger grain of salt.

Cheers

-don
Don, for the most part, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I've actually reached out to the mods here in the past and offered my help in curbing anything that was going on that they thought was inappropriate. Most of them know full well who I am. If they have a problem with it, let them decide that. You can stop playing pretend moderator.

As a long-time member here, I want nothing but to see this place grow and succeed.

As a former moderator, I did nothing but help the new moderator team when the changeover took place.

My criticisms here have not been in an attempt to bring anything down. Just the opposite in fact. Recently, I even said that the article posting thing could be a good idea, but I thought they should be reaching out to actual experts on these topics, not writers.

There is no ill will. There is no desire to be destructive. I have better things to do with my time.

I am a member on a lot of different forums where I have made suggestions about rules and things to help the forum grow. Big deal. So just because someone is a member of another forum, they shouldn't participate in this discussion?

And just to be clear, I would never encourage anyone to go poaching members from another forum, and it is insulting for you to even make such an accusation.

I guess me suggesting that they not allow special characters at all in the signatures to make the mods' jobs easier was just going to bring the whole place crashing down.
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 04:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

Don, for the most part, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Let's *try* to stick to the rules, possible rule revisions, possible new rules, and possible application of and/or the enforcement of the rules --> and/or article content too, I guess. If anyone wants any further information on whatever else, they know where to find us.

Big deal. So just because someone is a member of another forum, they shouldn't participate in this discussion?
I never said that, nor did I imply it.

And just to be clear, I would never encourage anyone to go poaching members from another forum, and it is insulting for you to even make such an accusation.
I didn't say you did personally, but some of your forum members are doing exactly that. You do publicly encourage friends to invite friends...so some poaching will obviously be going on.

Recently, I even said that the article posting thing could be a good idea, but I thought they should be reaching out to actual experts on these topics, not writers.
I noticed you posted your statement after I had posted that I thought article posting could be a good idea on the Article thread. In-fact, I replied to some of your comments in the post you are talking about..

Since you brought it up... here are a bunch of old-timers basically blasting Alaister for mentioning the idea of creating Warrior Champions for each section.

Yes, you will recognize a few of your members shooting the idea down as fast as it was proposed (as long as the posts don't disappear ). Those are some of the very same people that are giving WF mods, contributors, and members so much grief now.

Allow me to refresh your memory, and do feel free to submit your application to be a Warrior Champion. Don't forget, any member could have submitted an WAMA for review if they had wanted to do so while Alaister was here as well.



http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...m-section.html

Yes, it's obvious the Warrior Champions program should have been instituted prior to advancing any newbie article blasting campaign.

If Alaister's idea would not have been shot down by a close group of old-timers and their thanking buddies --> WF may not have seen the precipitous traffic and quality decline that it has endured over the last year or two.

IMO, almost all of what has been discussed between us is relevant to relatively new forum owners (mods and admins too), that right now are in the process of crafting a set of rules, in hopes of making this forum a better and more prosperous place.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 05:38 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

Let's *try* to stick to the rules, possible rule revisions, possible new rules, and possible application of and/or the enforcement of the rules --> and/or article content too, I guess. If anyone wants any further information on whatever else, they know where to find us.



I never said that, nor did I imply it.



I didn't say you did personally, but some of your forum members are doing exactly that. You do publicly encourage friends to invite friends...so some poaching will obviously be going on.



I noticed you posted your statement after I had posted that I thought article posting could be a good idea on the Article thread. In-fact, I replied to some of your comments in the post you are talking about..

Since you brought it up... here are a bunch of old-timers basically blasting Alaister for mentioning the idea of creating Warrior Champions for each section.

Yes, you will recognize a few of your members shooting the idea down as fast as it was proposed (as long as the posts don't disappear ). Those are some of the very same people that are giving WF mods, contributors, and members so much grief now.

Allow me to refresh your memory, and do feel free to submit your application to be a Warrior Champion. Don't forget, any member could have submitted an WAMA for review if they had wanted to do so while Alaister was here as well.



http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...m-section.html

Yes, it's obvious the Warrior Champions program should have been instituted prior to advancing any newbie article blasting campaign.

If Alaister's idea would not have been shot down by a close group of old-timers and their thanking buddies --> WF may not have seen the precipitous traffic and quality decline that it has endured over the last year or two.

IMO, almost all of what has been discussed between us is relevant to relatively new forum owners (mods and admins too), that right now are in the process of crafting a set of rules, in hopes of making this forum a better and more prosperous place.

Cheers

-don

Again, I have no idea what my forum or the members there have to do with any of that. None of them were members in 2014. In 2014 it was a paid training course with a private forum attached for people that bought the course to ask questions and have discussions. It wasn't even on the same URL.

And the Champions thing was my idea. It came about in a series of PM's between myself and Alaister. He was looking for ideas on getting more members engaged, old and new.

I suggested using an old tactic that many large chain retailers use. They give people fairly meaningless titles. The titles don't really mean anything. They don't get a pay raise. They don't get a promotion. But some people get really excited about their new responsibilities and really run with it.

I would have called it something else, but that was the idea behind it. Have a group of key members who are not just responsible for content, but for engaging other members. They would be responsible for driving discussions in their own little sector of the forum.

So I don't know what your little conspiracy theory is here. I asked a group of people to burn down my own idea through a forum of mine that didn't exist?
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 06:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

And the Champions thing was my idea.
Great. A totally exceptional idea.

It's too bad you (and a few others) didn't publicly back Alaister when he announced it. If you had, we may not be seeing the small group of old timers incessantly attack, degrade, belittle, and demean the newbie article blasters on thread after thread like we do today. And maybe, just maybe, we would not had to see any drastic actions employed by WF at all.

We get the point the first time a member posts that they dislike WF and the member blasters for their actions. No need to chase them all over the forum to call them names and make them look like idiots --> that does NOT help Warrior Forum.

If anyone has a problem with the article blasters ---> instead of members flaming them across several forums for over a week now, open a suggestion in the Suggestions Forum more politely stating your position.

Constantly bitching here and elsewhere does nobody any good, and frankly, I am surprised WF has taken so much public crap from such a small, seemingly tight knit group of old-timers.

It came about in a series of PM's between myself and Alaister. He was looking for ideas on getting more members engaged, old and new.

I suggested using an old tactic that many large chain retailers use. They give people fairly meaningless titles. The titles don't really mean anything. They don't get a pay raise. They don't get a promotion. But some people get really excited about their new responsibilities and really run with it.
Exactly. It was a great idea, but nobody of any capable stature stood up and defended Alaister when he put it on the table. Now we have basically the same crew that shot you and Alaister down trolling almost every newbie article thread they come across...and spouting off how terrible WF is wherever and whenever they can.

That's not adding value to the threads or WF. It's destroying the threads and impugning the members, among other things... FWIW, I was the troubleshooter that fixed and then managed several national chain retail electronics stores, which at the time, was the oldest chain of TV and Stereo stores in the nation. Problem solving, bettering customer service, stimulating sales, selling extended service contracts, and training was what I was paid to do, and I did all quite well. Rarely was I ever asked, "where's the beef".

I would have called it something else, but that was the idea behind it. Have a group of key members who are not just responsible for content, but for engaging other members.
Exactly. Believe me, I know all about engaging other members. I contributed heavily to one of the largest forums on the net back in the late 90's and early 00's, a forum that makes this place look tiny, and it's a forum that is still thriving today.

Yes, I do know about stimulating conversations. I had my own private invite political forum and photo art forums back in the day. Bought them, built them, administrated them, moderated them, and I did my biggest job...nurtured them and stimulated conversation by contributing quality content and discussion. Why did I get out of the forum business? One reason, it took too much of my time, at that time.

One forum stimulated itself, the other didn't. The photo art forum needed a few people to grow the threads and the board, and keep discussions going and flowing properly. Managing forum flow and increasing participation can take a little work, and we both know trolls rarely help anything.

So I don't know what your little conspiracy theory is here. I asked a group of people to burn down my own idea through a forum of mine that didn't exist?
I never said it was a conspiracy, I just pointed out what has been happening.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 06:45 PM   #45
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Re: Warrior Forum Rules
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

Here is a question.

I get a good bit of spam email from this forum lately. Why didn't they blast one out to announce the new rules? Wouldn't that be a smart way to let members know about them?
What a great idea!

Not having seen the small notice about new rules, because it doesn't appear on the sub-forum I always open up on, I was not amused to receive this PM:

"This is to inform you that we have removed your signature as it violates our 2 line guideline. Please refer to the link below.

Warrior Forum Rules

Let this serve as a warning. Future violations may cause your account to get sanctions."

Not a very pleasant introduction to new rules!

Having said that, I believe that rules are rules and I try to comply, but that's impossible to do when you aren't informed of rule changes. Simple courtesy would go a long way, and an email blast is well within WF's capability, as @MikeFriedman pointed out.

Walter Hay
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 07:06 PM   #46
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Another great idea would be to PM every member the rules with an active compliance button once revisions are closed, and the new rules are completed.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 07:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

Another great idea would be to PM every member the rules with an active compliance button once revisions are closed, and the new rules are completed.

Cheers

-don

The rules are complete and are being actively enforced as Walter pointed out.
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 07:20 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

The rules are complete and are being actively enforced as Walter pointed out.
You may have forgotten that you made a similar suggestion earlier today. The suggestion I just made may work a bit better because WF will get almost 100% deliverability, and it may cost them less. If they do both, great.

It looks like the rules may not be completed yet, as Moss and Dan have not been back to comment on some of the great revision and other suggestions that have been made.

The fact that this thread is still open, and an active change log exists, should make it pretty clear.

If no more suggestions were wanted to be heard, someone would have closed this thread by now. I think we may still hear something from the powers that be on rule #1, either way, and some sort of reconsideration may be made on what type of sig links may or may not be allowed.

Who knows what else the admins and mods may want to institute or amend. They make that call, we can only submit suggestions.

The mods are acting on the sigs because people like me and others are reporting the violations when we run across them in the threads we are reading. It's called good old fashion member moderation.

Cheers

-don
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 09:24 PM   #49
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There's been some great discussions, I'll try and provide a bit more clarification where possible.


Multiple Accounts
Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

Some "members" have numerous shill (an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.) profiles. How are you going to decide which one stays?
[Edited reply to this 2016-06-15 21:46]

Any user conducting in fraudulent activities including but not limited to using additional accounts to entice users to purchase a product will have all associated accounts banned.

What we're trying to do is to create a set of rules that everyone understands that gives us a framework to enforce what is mostly common sense behaviour in a repeatable way.


Rule #1
Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Is Rule #1 gone? If so, that means it's open season to name names and rant rants?
Thanks for bringing this to my attention Kay, it's Rule 1.7 now.


Signature Special Characters
Re:The discussion around an analytical limit on special characters. We don't want to be super picky around this. Would we ban exclamation marks? What about full stops? I encourage you to think about the purpose of these rules. If you want to push the boundaries, you'll do it anyway. Just be prepared to get a message from a moderator asking you to change it. Maybe sometimes you'll even get more characters if you keep trying. Annoy them enough and they'll probably just take away your signature privileges. If you want to play that game go for it, is it really worth your time though?


Market Place Rules
Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

#1) What about free WSOs? Are they still going to be sent to classifieds?

#2) Are $1 WSOs the lowest priced offer that will remain in the main WSO section?

#3) The overall applicability of the WSO section rules --> are they still in force? If so, will they be added to this rules collation?
-don
  1. WSO section still prohibits free offers.
  2. Interesting point, I haven't got a firm answer on this yet.
  3. This still aims to be the single source of truth for rules. Yes, marketplace rules should be here. If you've got thoughts on marketplace specific rules that aren't here that should be please let me know. I'll go through today and migrate any that I find.


Enforcement of Rules
With regards to enforcing the signature rules.
  • Fiverr rule is now being enforced.
  • I believe when greater than 2 line signatures are being noticed people are being given a period of time to change. After that they're being manually altered.


Image Signature Affiliate Links
Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

By that logic, Google Adwords, Bing, and Facebook shouldn't care about the landing page I send paid ads to...but they do.
I understand this is a sensitive issues. By your logic if we were Google, bing or Facebook we wouldn't send traffic there, but we're Warrior Forum, which is completely different entity.

Let's see how this plays out. If a surge of people suddenly start buying sigs and promoting affiliates we'll revisit it. If it's a minority of people it'll probably stay the same.


Distribution of the New Rules
Now with regard to why this hasn't been pushed harder. This is exactly the discussion I wanted to have first. The people that care a lot about these rules (you guys) are here and discussing it.

I think we're making beneficial changes and clarifying things where required. This means that when we do email out it'll be a more complete and polished set of rules.

Finally, we'll tackle the distribution of the rules once we are all on a relatively common ground.
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Unread 14th Jun 2016, 09:51 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by moss View Post


Enforcement of Rules
With regards to enforcing the signature rules.
  • I believe when greater than 2 line signatures are being noticed people are being given a period of time to change. After that they're being manually altered.
I was given no time to make the change. I was just informed that my signature had been deleted, and as I posted above, the little rule change notice doesn't even appear on the sub-forum at which I always open WF.

If the rules are not yet competed, and notices don't appear on every sub-forum, why are they being so ruthlessly enforced?

I have changed my signature to comply with the 2 line rule, but it does not appear on my posts.

Walter Hay

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