ClickBank: tracking issues explained

[Harvey Segal]

There have been numerous posts from ClickBank affiliates
expressing concern over the accuracy of tracking.
Hopefully this post will clarify the situation.


What do we mean by tracking ?


Tracking refers to the means by which ClickBank ensures
that when a customer purchases from an affiliate link
then that affiliate is credited with commission. The
tracking system must ensure that the affiliate id is
carried through to the order form where it appears in the
format [affiliate=xxxxxx]




How does ClickBank tracking work ?


Tracking is done primarily by a cookie system. Cookies
cannot be guaranteed 100% accurate so ClickBank have also
added an IP checking system to complement it. The
combination ensures high accuracy but again it is not
100% perfect. With over 20,000 orders a day there will
always be one or two missing out.



Is accurate tracking important to ClickBank ?


Accurate crediting of affiliate commission is VITAL to
ClickBank. It is the hub of their business. Note that
an all time high 70% of ClickBank's sales are now produced
by affiliates.

(If you want to argue that ClickBank couldn't care less
about their affiliates and that they profit from a sale
regardless I would respectfully suggest you make your
comments in another thread).

If you think that their tracking software is not up to
scratch it could be argued that, within the constraints
of a cookie/IP system, ClickBank have the expertise and
the will to provide the very best solution. Note that
they have a related company specializing in complex fraud
control software and the founder of ClickBank himself has
a mathematical background.



What can go wrong ?


If a customer follows an affiliate link and arrives at an
order form with the correct affiliate id not showing some
possible causes are
- spyware on the customer's PC
- manipulation of links by the vendor
- browser problems
- cookie stuffing

Here is the key point

== All this is OUTSIDE of ClickBank's control ===


Once the affiliate id does appear on the order form
everything from then on is within the ClickBank system
and IS therefore under ClickBank's control.


So if an affiliate id appears but he is not credited this
would be a FAILURE in the ClickBank system.



What are the chances of a failure ?


Although we don't know the inner workings of the
ClickBank system it would appear unlikely that such a
failure would occur for the following reasons

- the crediting of a sale to an affiliate has been a fundamental
part of the system since day one

- it's a basic programming task

- if ClickBank were to make any change in this area then
immediate analysis on the huge number of transactions
they process (one every 3 seconds) should quickly show up
the problem


HOWEVER no computer system is faultless

If this failure occurs then ClickBank WANT to know about it.
They WANT you to tell them and they will want to
investigate as a high priority

BUT they need documented proof

It's no good saying
- a customer purchased and I did not get paid
- my sales have plumetted so your tracking is faulty

Do you wonder why ClickBank have to give their (sometimes
criticised) stock answers to such complaints ?


They need proof that YOUR ClickBank id appears on the
order form and that you did not receive commission

They need ==> a VIDEO showing the completed sale starting with your ClickBank id on the form

Given this information I assure you that ClickBank WILL investigate



Harvey


.

[Jacer]

Very well said. Thanks for the detailed post.

[tecHead]

Thanks, Harvey... although, can you give me(us) your rendition of an explanation as to why a specific affiliate can open a new account and their stats start registering again after not?

I have not personally witnessed this; but, there are more than enough references to this phenomenon to warrant investigation, no?

I'd like to hear your take on it.

Thanks,
tecHead

[Michael D]

What is your position within Clickbank again? The reason I ask is because you seem to be some kind of advocate with any negative Clickbank thread. Do you work for them?

[ecoverartist]

I agree with TecHead although I do understand there might be some reasons outside of CB's control. I'm curious to know how stats can restart with a brand new affiliate account even when nothing else has changed.

I'd also like to know what CB's policy is on "first cookie" clicks. Do they credit the first referrer or the last? I see some marketers blatantly telling people how to clear their cache - especially for big ticket items. What's CB's take on this?

[tecHead]

Originally Posted by Michael D

What is your position within Clickbank again? The reason I ask is because you seem to be some kind of advocate with any negative Clickbank thread. Do you work for them?

I don't think its safe to assume that Harvey works for ClickBank simply because he chooses to give accurate information based on his accumulated knowledge on the topic.

Personally, I appreciate his advocacy for ClickBank; as I don't see many people offering up NON-biased information that is logical, verifiable and (more than likely) accurate.

Speculation and emotion are toxic to successful business.

Originally Posted by ecoverartist

I agree with TecHead although I do understand there might be some reasons outside of CB's control. I'm curious to know how stats can restart with a brand new affiliate account even when nothing else has changed.

I'd also like to know what CB's policy is on "first cookie" clicks. Do they credit the first referrer or the last? I see some marketers blatantly telling people how to clear their cache - especially for big ticket items. What's CB's take on this?

Thanks. And, as a programmer, I don't hold ClickBank accountable for things outside of their control, either.

It is interesting though how there are so many reports of tracking/sales seemingly resetting themselves after opening a new affiliate account.

Regarding their "last cookie gets eaten" model; I personally think that's the best model, really. Its the same model used in the corporate world of sales, as a matter of fact. Its just that there's a bit more communication between salespeople in the corporate world and sometimes you'll see them teaming up to make the sale and them splitting the commissions.

Problem with the salespeople/affiliates on the Internet is that most of them are out for themselves; which is understandable... just limiting.

Some of the biggest online launches have been due to the (so-called) gurus teaming up. One of the things they have definitely one upped the rest of us on... but, can't blame them.

The one that controls the gold (or traffic) is the one that makes the rules.

[Harvey Segal]

Thanks, Harvey... although, can you give me(us) your rendition of an explanation as to why a specific affiliate can open a new account and their stats start registering again after not?

Can we keep this thread on topic please.

The situation with new accounts is a separate topic.

Originally Posted by Michael D

What is your position within Clickbank again? The reason I ask is because you seem to be some kind of advocate with any negative Clickbank thread. Do you work for them?

Sigh . . . but somehow I expected this.

Harvey

[Trader54]

Thanks.

Your post sums things up very well, I think most issues happen outside clickbanks control. There are so many things that can go wrong before one reaches the order page.

[Alexa Smith]

Thanks for posting this, Harvey.

I suspect it'll be dismaying (but perhaps, in all the circumstances, not astonishing) news to some affiliates who, checking things out, have seen their own affiliate name on the order-page of a product, bought the product, paid for it, accepted delivery of it and then found themselves not accredited with the expected affiliate commission, that Clickbank will investigate this for them only on receipt of video evidence! Are all those people supposed somehow to be able to travel back in time and conjure up a video of what's already happened? Or prospectively to do such testing routinely with a camera turned on?

[actionplanbiz]

umm but one of the testimonies against clickbank was like 1200 hops and no sales

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by actionplanbiz

umm but one of the testimonies against clickbank was like 1200 hops and no sales

This is not a good case to bring...

It is not uncommon for a n00b affiliate to throw thousands of un-targeted visitors at a page and make no sales... You can buy dog traffic..50,000 visitors for $10 etc.. that is useless.

1200 hops and no sales means nothing without more information.

Peace

Jay

p.s. I'm not jumping to the defence of CB, I just think that some things are not good for the discussion. We have our way of dealing with the CB "issues", and have documented them previously... it works for us.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by actionplanbiz

umm but one of the testimonies against clickbank was like 1200 hops and no sales

Please see this post
There's been a murder . . .

Harvey

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by JMueller129

Well, I'm still concerned. There was this guy who earlier said that he put up all of his links for his product, to his domain and for whatever reason, he stopped getting sales and in REALITY, what happened was all of his clickbank links stopped working. Even though the URL's were correct, something on Clickbank's end messed up.

Has anyone else ever had any trouble with Clickbank?

Can we keep this thread on topic please ?

Harvey

[TimGross]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

Sigh . . . but somehow I expected this.

[mojojuju]

Originally Posted by actionplanbiz

umm but one of the testimonies against clickbank was like 1200 hops and no sales

How about an experiment...

You pick any product on Clickbank and any product on any other network and I'll send 1200 clicks from Adwords to each product. I will guarantee that no sale will be made for either product.

And here's the deal.. I'll set up the untargeted campaigns if you will pay for the advertising costs.

Deal?

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by TimGross

Are you saying that all these people are ClickBank affiliates ?

I shall have their accounts closed immediately


.

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Or prospectively to do such testing routinely with a camera turned on?

Why not?

If the problem is as prevalent as reported and we want to nail it down
we should soon get a case which can be handed over to ClickBank.


Harvey


.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

Are you saying that all these people are ClickBank affiliates ?

That's a considerable exaggeration.

I recognise some vendors there. The rest, of course, are just employees.

[patchman]

I think your wasting your time Harvey!! I have said the same things on different forums and as a result was accused of being employee of clickbank!

[TimGross]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

Are you saying that all these people are ClickBank affiliates ?

I shall have their accounts closed immediately

Heh, that's my depiction of the people in this thread asking what your ulterior motives are for quote-unquote "advocating" for their perceived monster...

[Tony Dean]

As stated the cookie is set and ip tracking.
Which is more important - the cookie or the ip?

Most affiliates conceal their affiliate hoplink with a cloaking software which makes an html file which you reference in your ads.

The potential customer clicks on that link and in the taskbar can spot the hoplink briefly and knows it is being re-directed through Clickbank to the vendors salespage.

The cookie has been set and ip noted!

But - the canny potential customer is an affiliate of Clickbank also and clears his cookie cache and then goes to look for the product on Clickbank he is mightily interested in buying - but not through some other affiliates link!

So then when he finds the product he buys it under his own affiliate id and checks at the bottom of the order form to make sure his id is there. He then buys the product.

The cookie was deleted - but what about the ip?

[Zach Booker]

O.M.G Harvey...you just don't get it!!!!

I put up my adwords campaignzz and sent everyone to this crazy pre sell page to get them quality scorez high and then sent them to this sales page with talking computer headz and everything...

Sure I bid on really expensive keywords, made my ad sound really appealing by not mentioning there was a price involved, to get the maxiumum clicks, and didn't track anything....

But when they got to the sales page no on even bought! And i've been sending 15 clicks, at a cost of 1 dollar per click, to this bad boy for ever!!!

Clickbank is stealing ma sales...it's obvious...go back to taking away my sales Harvey!!!

...

All kidding aside...(Hope no one took offense to that...)

Most Clickbank products, unless in the MMO or Forex niche, convert like crap. Simple as that.

...They'll show you the "proof" that the sales letter converts like candy, but it doesn't.

I don't doubt that some people can send 400-500 semi-qualified people to a sales page and not get a single sale. Some of the products are that bad.

Go into ANY category, keeping in mind that there are over 10,000 products on Clickbank, and see how many of those products have a gravity over 100.

Around 10? 20? No more then that probably...

...

Your usually going to have a few steps in getting a sale:

1) an ad. (Like Adwords etc,.)

2) A pre-sell page. (Or organically ranked blog, site, web 2.0 property, etc.)

3) The sales page.

The consumer has to get by at least one step just to have the privlege to purchase what your pimping.

...if one of your steps isn't up to par, and chances are unless you've been at it awhile and tweaking/testing it isn't, then you aren't getting the real buyers to the sales page. (Or half of them are clicking away before reaching the sales page...)

...

I can make an adwords ad saying:

I have pictures of you...
You're cute...really cute...
Come see your pictures.

My click through rate would be SKY HIGH. But when they click through to my site about hemorrhoids people may scratch their heads and leave.

You need to always strive to create a desire, a want, and a belief that the consumer needs what your selling.

...finding a balance is hard. And with bad sales pages written by average Joe's, not copywriters, you really need to sell the consumer before they reach the sales page.

I could go on all day. But it wouldn't really change anything, just like what Harvey has said won't change too many people's minds.

Don't like the tracking? Then move to CPA offers where your leads get skimmed, or what ever you want to call it, all the time.

Tons of people get 15% less money then their supposed to because the network skims a few sales, while still letting you stay profitable.

Take your pick?

Problems are going to arise no matter where you go. There's a reason why 99.5% of people who come online fail...

It's those who confront those challenges and overcome them that will truly succeed no matter what they chose to do in life.

Take care,

Zach

[kkchoon]

Try switching to other offer, Internet TV or PC TV seems great!

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by patchman

I have said the same things on different forums and as a result was accused of being employee of clickbank!

Well in one thread here at the Warrior forum I was accused of
being both an employee of ClickBank and a Moderator who
was deleting anti-ClickBank posts.

Harvey

[milan]

Originally Posted by Tony Dean

As stated the cookie is set and ip tracking.
Which is more important - the cookie or the ip?

Most affiliates conceal their affiliate hoplink with a cloaking software which makes an html file which you reference in your ads.

The potential customer clicks on that link and in the taskbar can spot the hoplink briefly and knows it is being re-directed through Clickbank to the vendors salespage.

The cookie has been set and ip noted!

But - the canny potential customer is an affiliate of Clickbank also and clears his cookie cache and then goes to look for the product on Clickbank he is mightily interested in buying - but not through some other affiliates link!

So then when he finds the product he buys it under his own affiliate id and checks at the bottom of the order form to make sure his id is there. He then buys the product.

The cookie was deleted - but what about the ip?

I'd like to hear an answer to this question. Does anybody know?

[Kim Standerline]

You realise of course Harvey that you're spoiling it for all the theory conspirators

Kim

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Tony Dean

As stated the cookie is set and ip tracking.
Which is more important - the cookie or the ip?

Most affiliates conceal their affiliate hoplink with a cloaking software which makes an html file which you reference in your ads.

The potential customer clicks on that link and in the taskbar can spot the hoplink briefly and knows it is being re-directed through Clickbank to the vendors salespage.

The cookie has been set and ip noted!

But - the canny potential customer is an affiliate of Clickbank also and clears his cookie cache and then goes to look for the product on Clickbank he is mightily interested in buying - but not through some other affiliates link!

So then when he finds the product he buys it under his own affiliate id and checks at the bottom of the order form to make sure his id is there. He then buys the product.

The cookie was deleted - but what about the ip?

IP tracking DEGRADES over time! In 20 minutes, it has a fair chance of FAILURE! In 1 day, it becomes almost certain to fail. Within a month, it is nearly 100% WORTHLESS!!!!!! So IP tracking can NOT be used for ANYTHING other than a limited span between a person receiving a visitor and getting a sale. That is due to ISPs, sanity, and the way networks work. IPv4 can NEVER do better! They HOPE IPv6 MIGHT, but that is ALSO UNLIKELY! BTW IPv6 requires many thousands, perhaps millions, WORLDWIDE to upgrade equipment, routing lists, etc.... So don't believe that will happen OVERNIGHT! I've been saying that for about a decade and...

from wikipedia....

In December 2008, despite marking its 10th anniversary as a Standards Track protocol, IPv6 was only in its infancy in terms of general worldwide deployment. A 2008 study[1] by Google Inc. indicated that penetration was still less than one percent of Internet-enabled hosts in any country. IPv6 has been implemented on all major operating systems in use in commercial, business, and home consumer environments[2].

And don't forget, software, etc... will have to be upgraded.

Cookies could work forever, and have NO false hits, but it is based on the VISITORS system!

Steve

[DogScout]

Harvey, I've seen your site. You have a ton of great CB info on it. As well as some easy solutions to many of the problems raised here. I am impressed. It is highly unlikely anyone reading your site would think you work FOR them. It is obvious you are adept at working WITH them. Thanks for your insights.
Work with people, they will bend over backwards to help you, in my limited experience, of course.
Mark

[Lloyd Buchinski]

Originally Posted by tecHead

Thanks, Harvey... although, can you give me(us) your rendition of an explanation as to why a specific affiliate can open a new account and their stats start registering again after not?

I have not personally witnessed this; but, there are more than enough references to this phenomenon to warrant investigation, no?

Actually at least the last 5 or 6 times I've seen this brought up has been in this way, that 'it hasn't happened to me but it's been said a lot' and it sure has as you just did.

Originally Posted by Michael D

What is your position within Clickbank again? The reason I ask is because you seem to be some kind of advocate with any negative Clickbank thread. Do you work for them?

When I first got on the net a few years ago and got interested in CB, I'm not sure which I ran into first, CB or Harvey's site. But either way one of them got me interested in the other. He obviously has a lot of experience dealing with CB and a lot of knowledge about it. When I see someone making a claim that I happen to know isn't true, it always does seem like a good idea to correct the misinformation. That couldn't possibly be the reason for his comments?? He does seem to back them up extremely well.

I doubt if he would even want to work for them unless they threw in a huge percentage of the company as part of the deal.

With all the people who know so much more about how CB should be run than CB does, you'd think they could get together really fast and put something better up, wouldn't you? I have this little theory about why that hasn't happened. When they do try to get together they don't get anything done because after 10 minutes each one is complaining about what the other has done so far. (That's just for the humor, no point in running out to buy a gun.)

I worked with someone who had a nice way of saying 'stop whining.' He had a loud voice and there was always a point to it but it was done with humor too and it was never insulting to the person. The surprising thing was how many times he got to say it in a day. (It was a very busy place.)

There are so many obstacles and problems that if you keep busy adapting to them or going around them, you don't think of complaining. At least to me that doesn't seem like a great place to focus human intelligence. There might be a point to it sometimes but mostly it doesn't seem pleasant, or productive, or a good use of time.

but best wishes anyway to everyone in the thread, complaining or not,
../lloyd

And an edit, thought I'd throw in my favorite CB quote.

"Why not just take the easy route so this isn't a problem, such as... SELL MORE STUFF.
When Clickbank puts 6 figures in your pocket your perspective totally changes.
Clickbank rules." Jason 'profit' Moffatt

Would you believe there were quite a few posts in the CB thread after that one and not a single one was complaining? But I guess it's too positive and you sure don't see that one repeated. "I heard that CB is good for 6 figures etc."

[Adam Carn]

Originally Posted by Zach Booker

I can make an adwords ad saying:

I have pictures of you...
You're cute...really cute...
Come see your pictures.

My click through rate would be SKY HIGH. But when they click through to my site about hemorrhoids people may scratch their heads and leave.

That bit made me laugh! So funny.

Sorry for the non-helpful contribution.

Thanks,
Adam

[Zach Booker]

Hehe, glad I could give you a chuckle.

Zach

[howudoin]

That's a considerable exaggeration.

I recognise some vendors there. The rest, of course, are just employees.

That made my morning! LOL

So when will wordsmith crackle some signature files?

[The 13th Warrior]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

They need proof that YOUR ClickBank id appears on the
order form and that you did not receive commission

They need ==> a VIDEO showing the completed sale starting with your ClickBank id on the form

Given this information I assure you that ClickBank WILL investigate


Harvey

There it is folks.

VIDEO=PROOF

Unless one enjoys bantering about conspiracy this and that.

A true conspiracy theorist :

1) Formulates theory based on personal interpretation and observation, repeating patterns

2) Combines circumstantial evidence with his theory/hypothesis, along with others of the same vein to form a more specific and accurate direction of investigation in combination of evidence verification and gathering..,

3) The direction either leads to hard , physical evidence and facts that :

a) lays to rest the theory is inaccurate , an moves on, closes the case on the theory, or

b) enough credible, overwhelming evidence that take it from a theory, to historically factual, that can be proven time and again in the real world where anyone can lay their hands on it and not only "see", but "KNOW" it for themselves.

Theory dies, a scientific fact is born.

It is either true or its not.

All other "conspiracy theorist" engage in intellectual gossip, academic saber-rattling and scientific rumor spreading.

So now the question becomes.....how much video can you stuff in Harvey's in-box that he can hand to ClickBank so it can be investigated and resolved....?...

......"if" you really want to know the truth of what is being perceived.

The 13 th Warrior

[milan]

Originally Posted by seasoned

IP tracking DEGRADES over time! ....

Steve, you're completely right. However, the question was very specific. About a situation where the buyer tries to take advantage of his affiliate account (despite the ClickBank TOS). Most of these situations can be avoided via some simple IP tracking. The questions is do ClickBank do this?

Because if they do, it definitely explains some of the rants here...[cough..cough... people who "test" buy through their own affiliate links]

[Zach Booker]

Originally Posted by milan

Steve, you're completely right. However, the question was very specific. About a situation where the buyer tries to take advantage of his affiliate account (despite the ClickBank TOS). Most of these situations can be avoided via some simple IP tracking. The questions is do ClickBank do this?

Because if they do, it definitely explains some of the rants here...[cough..cough... people who "test" buy through their own affiliate links]

Great point!

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that were true. (Although you'd think Clickbank would just tell people. It'd "un-confuse" a bunch of people...)

Zach

[waken]

Originally Posted by ecoverartist

I'd also like to know what CB's policy is on "first cookie" clicks. Do they credit the first referrer or the last?

The last.

Originally Posted by ecoverartist

I see some marketers blatantly telling people how to clear their cache - especially for big ticket items. What's CB's take on this?

If you were CB, what will you do? Note that this is not against the tos..

Don’t offer bonuses of cash or cash equivalents (such as gift cards) for customers who purchase a product through your HopLink. This is not allowed in ClickBank’s Client Contract. You can, however, offer other types of bonuses, such as additional ebooks or related products, to customers who purchase through your HopLink.

But I do wonder why a product that used to have 1% conversion to a sale, now takes forever? Hmm...

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by milan

Steve, you're completely right. However, the question was very specific. About a situation where the buyer tries to take advantage of his affiliate account (despite the ClickBank TOS). Most of these situations can be avoided via some simple IP tracking. The questions is do ClickBank do this?

Because if they do, it definitely explains some of the rants here...[cough..cough... people who "test" buy through their own affiliate links]

CAN they be avoided? CAN THEY? If clickbank doesn't get the cookie on the main link, because maybe they ENFORCE the "NO FRAMES" policy, ALL BETS ARE OFF!!!!!! If the point from main url to buy URL exceeds the threshhold(Usually 20-30 minutes, but it CAN be much less), then the system must rely on COOKIES!!!!! If the cookies aren't set, because of clickbanks policies, or browser settings, it WILL fail!

SO, even if clickbank WERE using IP addresses, it is NOT a panacea!

Steve

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by waken

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoverartist
I'd also like to know what CB's policy is on "first cookie" clicks. Do they credit the first referrer or the last?

The last.

Actually, they DID once SURREPTITIOUSLY make it the FIRST referrer! Happily, they bowed to pressure!

Originally Posted by waken

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoverartist
I see some marketers blatantly telling people how to clear their cache - especially for big ticket items. What's CB's take on this?

If you were CB, what will you do? Note that this is not against the tos..

Maybe not, but it SHOULD be! It is UNETHICAL!!!!! Clickbank does NOT create a cookie to hold "the last referrer". They use a cookie as a holding area to hold ALL the last refferrers, for each product visited! If the customer deletes that cookie to make you $2, THOUSANDS of others could lose tens of THOUSANDS of dollars. BESIDES, what if the customer fails, and/or clickbank fails? Do YOU THEN not give them the PROMISED bonus? THOUSANDS of people lose money, and you don't even give them the bonus?

BTW this DOES make one wonder! WHAT if that cookie gets too large?

Originally Posted by waken

Quote:
Don’t offer bonuses of cash or cash equivalents (such as gift cards) for customers who purchase a product through your HopLink. This is not allowed in ClickBank’s Client Contract. You can, however, offer other types of bonuses, such as additional ebooks or related products, to customers who purchase through your HopLink.

But I do wonder why a product that used to have 1% conversion to a sale, now takes forever? Hmm...

Things aren't constant. There was a time when the Apple II would have FLOWN off the shelves for $300! TODAY, GOOD LUCK!

Steve

[tecHead]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Maybe not, but it SHOULD be! It is UNETHICAL!!!!! Clickbank does NOT create a cookie to hold "the last referrer". They use a cookie as a holding area to hold ALL the last refferrers, for each product visited! If the customer deletes that cookie to make you $2, THOUSANDS of others could lose tens of THOUSANDS of dollars. BESIDES, what if the customer fails, and/or clickbank fails? Do YOU THEN not give them the PROMISED bonus? THOUSANDS of people lose money, and you don't even give them the bonus?

BTW this DOES make one wonder! WHAT if that cookie gets too large?

I love Steve; (and NO, I don't want your Bud Light!).

Would be nice, (since the tech is there to accomplish it), if there were a concerted effort where as programatically...

check client cookie for ProductA
--> if present check cookie for AffiliateA
--> if present check against shared conglomerate file
--> if present in conglomerate append tid variable with new affiliate
--> sale made everybody involved gets paid
--> if NOT present in conglomerate replace cookie
(tell the mofo to join the conglomerate LOL -- j/k)

Then again, human nature won't allow this to happen I guess... would be nice though

PLP
tecHead

[milan]

Originally Posted by seasoned

CAN they be avoided? CAN THEY? If clickbank doesn't get the cookie on the main link, because maybe they ENFORCE the "NO FRAMES" policy, ALL BETS ARE OFF!!!!!! If the point from main url to buy URL exceeds the threshhold(Usually 20-30 minutes, but it CAN be much less), then the system must rely on COOKIES!!!!! If the cookies aren't set, because of clickbanks policies, or browser settings, it WILL fail!

SO, even if clickbank WERE using IP addresses, it is NOT a panacea!

Steve

Steve, you took my message out of context. It's not about avoiding cookies at all. We were talking about a specific situation. The rule would be:

A person lands on the page via an affiliate "C1" via IP address "IP1". After a couple of minutes the page gets a hit with the same "IP1" but with affiliate id "C2".
In real life, this can only happen if somebody is trying to steal the commission of a genuine affiliate and CB could give the credit for the sale to "C1".

A sort of one exception to the rule "the last affiliate gets the credit".

[bretski]

Originally Posted by milan

Steve, you took my message out of context. It's not about avoiding cookies at all. We were talking about a specific situation. The rule would be:

A person lands on the page via an affiliate "C1" via IP address "IP1". After a couple of minutes the page gets a hit with the same "IP1" but with affiliate id "C2".
In real life, this can only happen if somebody is trying to steal the commission of a genuine affiliate and CB could give the credit for the sale to "C1".

A sort of one exception to the rule "the last affiliate gets the credit".

Not necessarily...in a scenario of shared ip addresses, such as in an office (IP NAT - one to many) it is possible and very conceivable that you have two or more people surfing the web at one time at lunch to find a way to drop 20 pounds before the office Christmas party. Each person hits an affiliate site and gets cookied. So, in my thinking the cookie should win to be fair since this scenario could play out in more scenarios than you might think. This is the configuration in all offices and businesses and even home networks that use a router....public ip address facing the internet...private ip address inside the router...

[milan]

Two people in the same office seeing the same offer within minutes from two different affiliates? I don't think that happens much in reality. Affiliate theft happens though.

Originally Posted by bretski

Not necessarily...in a scenario of shared ip addresses, such as in an office (IP NAT - one to many) it is possible and very conceivable that you have two or more people surfing the web at one time at lunch to find a way to drop 20 pounds before the office Christmas party. Each person hits an affiliate site and gets cookied. So, in my thinking the cookie should win to be fair since this scenario could play out in more scenarios than you might think. This is the configuration in all offices and businesses and even home networks that use a router....public ip address facing the internet...private ip address inside the router...

[Harvey Segal]

As an aside

Originally Posted by tecHead

Thanks, Harvey... although, can you give me(us) your rendition of an explanation as to why a specific affiliate can open a new account and their stats start registering again after not?

I have not personally witnessed this; but, there are more than enough references to this phenomenon to warrant investigation, no?

I'd like to hear your take on it.

Thanks,

I have now made a posting here

ClickBank: the new account issue

Harvey

[Frank Bruno]

Harvey I can really appreciate your tenacity to delve deep into Clickbank inner workings but I keep having a lingering thought that you could get in trouble with CB as honestly most of what your saying is speculation about the intricacies of CB inner workings.

Also I really don't understand why you would want to represent yourself as an authority on CB if you are not even on their team.

Sorry man just seems a little odd to me.

Frank

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

honestly most of what your saying is speculation about the intricacies of CB inner workings.

Well I distinctly said "Although we don't know the inner workings of the
ClickBank system " and put forward my thoughts.

The real speculation is coming from others who make
statements like 'ClickBank put the most important
accounts on the fastest servers'

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

I really don't understand why you would want to represent yourself as an authority on CB if you are not even on their team.

Sorry man just seems a little odd to me.

So if you decide to put up an information site about say
Amazon, eBay, Paypal etc it means that you must be part
of their team ?


Harvey

[Frank Bruno]

In this case Harvey it is quite a bit different.

I believe that there are a lot of people who would misconstrue that you have a position with CB.

I know that probably is kool with you becasue you want to be the CB guru, but at times your statements can be misleading to some people.

Frank Bruno

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

I believe that there are a lot of people who would misconstrue that you have a position with CB.

A LOT of people ?

Well 2 or 3 maybe on this forum.

But if they hoplinked over to my site they would find this

================================================== ====
Note: ClickBank is a registered trademark of Keynetics
Inc., a Delaware corporation. ClickBankGuide.com is not
affiliated with Keynetics Inc. in any way, nor does
Keynetics Inc. sponsor or approve any ClickBankGuide.com
product. Keynetics Inc. expresses no opinion as to the
correctness of any of the statements made by
ClickBankGuide.com in the materials on this Web site.
================================================== ====

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

but at times your statements can be misleading to some people.

Which statements are these ?


Harvey

[seasoned]

Harvey,

You DO come off as the clickbank expert here, and seemed to imply intimate understanding of some proprietary issues. I am NOT saying that people are right, but they DO have a case!

Steve

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Harvey,

You DO come off as the clickbank expert here, and seemed to imply intimate understanding of some proprietary issues. I am NOT saying that people are right, but they DO have a case!

Steve

Steve

All the ClickBank information I provide in my answers can be found at the ClickBank site.

I'm not sure what Frank Bruno wants me to do.

Should I end every post with

"I am not an employee of ClickBank"

or put it in my sig file ?


Harvey

[Zach Booker]

If Harvey were a ClickBank employee it wouldn't matter anyway, imo.

Although this is a long thread, with hundreds of views, I doubt it's changed anyones whole opinion on ClickBank.

And if it has they need to re-evaluate how they make their judgment calls.

In the end the same people will be making the same amount with ClickBank.

Whether that be millions or whether that be zero.

Zach