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It's Down to Copywriting

by Rezbi
15 replies
Matt Furey swears by it.

So does Trevor Crook.

And anyone else who's making any sort of decent living off their lists.

The fact is, even if you've got a list, if you can't write persuasive copy in your emails then they're worthless.

Give or take select few very nichy (is that a real word?) niches, your powers of persuasion can and do make a difference to your sales.

Heck, my lists are tiny in comparison to most, but I still make sales with my emails.

I also make sales from my sales pages to people who are 'just dropping by' to take a look.

So, am I convinced it takes an ability to write to make a living online?

Yup, I sure am.

How about you?
#copywriting
  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Yes... but I also think it doesn't have to be your ability. That helps a lot and its highly recommended to learn copywriting. I don't think it should stop you from selling things if you can't write copy. You just need to factor in the costs of getting someone that can.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsmpublishing
    I believe that learning good sales copy is important right now and if you dont know how to do it LEARN IT!

    A couple of years ago you could get away with it because everyone elses site looked terrible one of my top sites on google in 2005 in the diet niche was so embarrassing when i think about it now i had even mis-typed remember to remeber cos i was typing quick and didnt have time to check it but it sold like crazy.

    If you cant write sales copy you will get sales but not as many, just like someone that is bad at writing ads on adwords will get more impressions and the clicks will be low.

    kind regards


    sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Keith Kogane
    Incorrect. You don't have to be able to write, and I say that for a variety of reasons.

    You may or may not believe me, because I am, in fact, an awesome writer.

    But what I think is more important is the ability to communicate effectively and clearly. It doesn't have to be in writing. This is the web - you can do audio and video quickly and easily (and cheaply).

    And as far as knowing the persuasive arts, it can HELP. But it's not REQUIRED. The trick is, the key persuasive principles needed to sell stuff online really don't have anything to do with what you, as the marketer say.

    For example, you can build a list strictly off of reciprocity, by giving away good content. Then, you can simply write real reviews of the products you use, and recommend them or not.

    You can (and will) make sales. In some markets, this approach will actually work BETTER than the slickest most persuasive copy crafting.

    But even if we disagree on that point, the fact remains that both good copy AND bad copy will convert better than NO copy. So stop reading this and go to work!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Keith Kogane View Post

      Incorrect. You don't have to be able to write, and I say that for a variety of reasons.

      You may or may not believe me, because I am, in fact, an awesome writer.

      But what I think is more important is the ability to communicate effectively and clearly. It doesn't have to be in writing. This is the web - you can do audio and video quickly and easily (and cheaply).

      And as far as knowing the persuasive arts, it can HELP. But it's not REQUIRED. The trick is, the key persuasive principles needed to sell stuff online really don't have anything to do with what you, as the marketer say.

      For example, you can build a list strictly off of reciprocity, by giving away good content. Then, you can simply write real reviews of the products you use, and recommend them or not.

      You can (and will) make sales. In some markets, this approach will actually work BETTER than the slickest most persuasive copy crafting.

      But even if we disagree on that point, the fact remains that both good copy AND bad copy will convert better than NO copy. So stop reading this and go to work!
      Ummm... isn't that 'writing' copy?

      Whether you write it or speak it, it's still persuasion, which is what copywriting is really... isn't it?

      In print, on audio or video, it's all copywriting.

      It's all persuasion.

      Salesmanship multiplied means just that, regardless of the medium.

      And, yes, you can learn it all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Keith Kogane
        Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

        Ummm... isn't that 'writing' copy?

        Whether you write it or speak it, it's still persuasion, which is what copywriting is really... isn't it?

        In print, on audio or video, it's all copywriting.

        It's all persuasion.

        Salesmanship multiplied means just that, regardless of the medium.

        And, yes, you can learn it all.
        You're right - I stated that clumsily - what I meant to express is that people often have a fear of "writing" because of the perception of it being a craft that requires a lot of arcane knowledge and skill.

        But it really doesn't - you don't have to "write" a word if you can speak well, for example.

        And for people concerned similarly with having to learn the subtle art of "selling" and "persuading", there's not a whole lot to that, either.

        If you give someone free stuff, and then make factual recommendations, they will buy your stuff, without one bit of "selling" being done. It's all reciprocity and rapport.

        So I guess what I meant is, success doesn't all come down to persuasive copywriting. But I agree with you that you'll certainly do better if you learn it. You don't have to learn to DO it well, necessarily, but learn enough to be able to analyze and reverse engineer other materials as well.

        If you really want to learn the art of persuasion divorced from copywriting, look into psychology stuff like "Influence" and "Predictably Irrational", THEN go back and study technical copywriting - I think that will give the student a much richer understanding of the "why" behind the "how".

        I know for me, it has improved my own ability to write good copy spontaneously, because now, that's how I actually THINK about products, and how I classify things in my head.

        Anyway, enough rambling. Good post.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jo_Shua
    I have to agree with you Rezbi! That exact thinking is why I am undergoing a personal development stage to become, not a decent, but a great copywriter
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    I'm stumped.

    This post has nothing to do with the methodology of learning to write copy.

    I wrote it so people who don't know (and there are actually some in the internet marketing forums) do get to know that copywriting is important.

    I don't see why it had to be moved.

    By all means, prove me wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author StephenDavies
    I think the quality of copywriting can be likened to the ability of a salesman.

    Poor quality copywriting, like poor salesman, can still clinch a sale if a customer comes along already pre-sold on the idea of buying.

    Better quality copywiting will still get the above sale, but will also persuade people to buy that may have arrived on the site with no intention to buy, or so they thought

    I have seen some outstanding examples of copywriting on sales pages, in fact I have succumbed to many of the offers that they were promoting! I must admit to being envious when I see some really good ones.

    However is it just me who is getting a tad cautious with some of the two foot long over-hyped pages? More and more I find myself buying from shorter and more realistic sales letters, although there is a skill involved in writing those too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by StephenDavies View Post

      However is it just me who is getting a tad cautious with some of the two foot long over-hyped pages? More and more I find myself buying from shorter and more realistic sales letters, although there is a skill involved in writing those too.

      You're not alone, Stephen, I'm very wary nowadays of over-hyped claims.

      And, unfortunately, I've found some of that caution to be well-founded... when it was too late...

      Damn those persuasion tactics
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

    So, am I convinced it takes an ability to write to make a living online?

    Yup, I sure am.

    How about you?
    It sure helps, but it's definitely NOT a requirement.

    There are plenty of business models that require little or no writing. And there are plenty of people you can outsource writing to.

    If you have to bootstrap your business or are following a heavy self-publishing model, then it's probably best if you can write. (Although still not necessary -- last I heard it was Furey's brother writing all those emails.)

    But if you've got money to invest then in most cases you'd build your business faster if you outsourced the writing and focused on highly leveraged activities such as building relationships and setting up joint ventures.

    E.g. I know a guy who did $300k with his first low-ticket product, his first year in IM. How? He hired two of the world's best copywriters to write his salesletter and email copy, then he simply focused on driving traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

      It sure helps, but it's definitely NOT a requirement.

      There are plenty of business models that require little or no writing. And there are plenty of people you can outsource writing to.

      If you have to bootstrap your business or are following a heavy self-publishing model, then it's probably best if you can write. (Although still not necessary -- last I heard it was Furey's brother writing all those emails.)

      But if you've got money to invest then in most cases you'd build your business faster if you outsourced the writing and focused on highly leveraged activities such as building relationships and setting up joint ventures.

      E.g. I know a guy who did $300k with his first low-ticket product, his first year in IM. How? He hired two of the world's best copywriters to write his salesletter and email copy, then he simply focused on driving traffic.
      You have a point, Kyle, so I should have mentioned I was only referring to the 'little guy' like me and the rest of the majority who don't have the resources to outsource or things like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    However is it just me who is getting a tad cautious with some of the two foot long over-hyped pages?
    It's just you Stephen.

    One of the divisions with the company I work for have just had their highest grossing promo in about 10 years... The sales letter is a succinct 41 pages.

    Colm
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