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There's an FB expert, Rachel Miller, who preaches that FB page and group names should make the prospect feel good about themselves. For example, you may work with overweight moms. They might be embarrassed to know their friends knew they were part of the "Obese Moms" group because of the stigma attached with the word obese. But they wouldn't be so embarrassed for their friends to know they were members of "MomsThat Make It Happen" or "Angel Moms" or something positive.The content of the groups, losing weight for busy, overwhelmed moms might be the same but the feeling that draws you in is more of a positive vibe.

In contrast to that line of thinking, I saw an exit popup from HootSuite that says basically "This is awkward. We thought you were someone who wanted to succeed on social media. Our bad. We'll leave this trial offer up for someone else." I suppose the someone else would be someone who took their business seriously or smarter than me or more likely to succeed. Kind of a negative, shaming, blaming, type of ad.

Which types of copy, positive or negative, do you think work best?

Mark
#prospect #shaming
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  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Personally I'm a bigger fan of positive and uplifting copy. Mostly because I figure there's enough negativity in this world without me adding to it.

    But I'm also a big proponent of letting the reader know what they'll be missing out on if they pass up the offer. Because let's face it, fear of loss is one of the bigger motivators in most peoples lives.

    That said, there are ways to get the point across without attacking a persons character.
    And to me, shaming someone into buying comes across as little more than a sleazy high pressure tactic.

    So no, I don't respond to it. And yes, I take some offense to marketers that use it. But I'm willing to accept the fact that not everybody feels the same way as I do about it.

    Although your examples in this post are a bit like comparing apples and oranges, Mark. Wouldn't you agree?

    The members of the facebook group have to carry that moniker every where they go because they belong to the group called "Obese Moms".

    Where the hootsuite example disappears as soon as they leave the site, so 10 minutes later it's no longer a part of their life.

    Can't imagine the two examples having the same lasting impact on someones life.

    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    There's an FB expert, Rachel Miller, who preaches that FB page and group names should make the prospect feel good about themselves. For example, you may work with overweight moms. They might be embarrassed to know their friends knew they were part of the "Obese Moms" group because of the stigma attached with the word obese. But they wouldn't be so embarrassed for their friends to know they were members of "MomsThat Make It Happen" or "Angel Moms" or something positive.The content of the groups, losing weight for busy, overwhelmed moms might be the same but the feeling that draws you in is more of a positive vibe.

    In contrast to that line of thinking, I saw an exit popup from HootSuite that says basically "This is awkward. We thought you were someone who wanted to succeed on social media. Our bad. We'll leave this trial offer up for someone else." I suppose the someone else would be someone who took their business seriously or smarter than me or more likely to succeed. Kind of a negative, shaming, blaming, type of ad.

    Which types of copy, positive or negative, do you think work best?

    Mark
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  • True about the apples and oranges. Those two examples were fresh on my mind. Us old fogies have to go with what we've got at the time.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author SARubin
      I agree. I'm not a spring rooster myself anymore.

      And I still like the positive copy better than the negative (although I have to admit that negative headlines do sell a lot of eyeballs )
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Dan Pena totally rips and shames his audience, I want to talk to my kid that way sometimes, but not my audience!

    I mean, forgive my example as it isn't meant to be offensive, albeit, they still sell gimp suits for people who like being shamed - and those who love to shame others seem to enjoy obliging their SLAVES, I'll leave politics out of it!
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    • Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Dan Pena totally rips and shames his audience, I want to talk to my kid that way sometimes, but not my audience!

      I mean, forgive my example as it isn't meant to be offensive, albeit, they still sell gimp suits for people who like being shamed - and those who love to shame others seem to enjoy obliging their SLAVES, I'll leave politics out of it!
      I'm glad you brought that up.

      Some men (it's only men, I think) respond well to "tough love".

      Sometimes it's real, sometimes it's a persona. But you can choose your audience. You can choose to attract men that respond to that kind of appeal and language.

      As far as shaming prospects into buying (online anyway). Use what works. If you tried being generous, and they didn't bite, change the bait. A challenge can work, or even a last ditch insult.

      I've done that in selling. Getting an emotional response, and their attention, are requisites to getting a sale. If I got nowhere with being nice, I would sometimes test the waters with being direct, even argumentative. Anything to get a response. In person, once you get them angry, it's pretty easy to turn it around. But you need engagement.

      An angry prospect is far easier to sell than a disinterested one.

      One thing that's even more important than being positive or negative in your approach is that you are engaging. You want the prospect to engage with you.

      And a prerequisite of engagement is that you are seen as a real personality. They have to see you as a real person. And frankly, being rude is a shortcut to that. So is being funny.

      Being a nice guy? Everyone is a nice guy in marketing. And sounding like everyone else isn't smart marketing.

      And another thing! (I love hearing myself talk) Your persona in marketing should cause some people to be more inclined to buy from you, and some people to be more inclined to not buy from you. But if you are neutral in their mind, you won't offend anyone...but you'll make fewer sales.

      Me? About 80% of the people I sell to like me a lot. But about 20% are turned off by my personality. I found out a secret. The 20% weren't going to buy anyway, but the 80% are now more likely to buy from me.

      I'll take the 80%.

      I've seen Dan Kennedy be rude to an audience member, knowing he destroyed that person's chance of buying from him. But he would maybe make 5 more people buy from him, because of his response to that one person.

      It's a tricky road to travel, full of land mines. But an expert can pull it off.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    There's an FB expert, Rachel Miller, who preaches that FB page and group names should make the prospect feel good about themselves. For example, you may work with overweight moms. They might be embarrassed to know their friends knew they were part of the "Obese Moms" group because of the stigma attached with the word obese. But they wouldn't be so embarrassed for their friends to know they were members of "MomsThat Make It Happen" or "Angel Moms" or something positive.The content of the groups, losing weight for busy, overwhelmed moms might be the same but the feeling that draws you in is more of a positive vibe.

    In contrast to that line of thinking, I saw an exit popup from HootSuite that says basically "This is awkward. We thought you were someone who wanted to succeed on social media. Our bad. We'll leave this trial offer up for someone else." I suppose the someone else would be someone who took their business seriously or smarter than me or more likely to succeed. Kind of a negative, shaming, blaming, type of ad.

    Which types of copy, positive or negative, do you think work best?

    Mark
    The Facebook group name thing just makes sense... BUT growth is probably an issue, because when one is searching for such a group, "Angel Moms" would not be on the mind of someone looking for a support group on weight. Its a bit of a catch 22.

    The shaming thing... I see this back firing in the long run. IF I am serious and looking over a number of products, and ran across this, I think it might actually work against the company. If this is how they are going to speak to me when they want me to sign up.. how good could customer support be?

    The flip side of this is that I will BET it does create sign-ups... but it is going to create signups of people that match the beratement right? People that aren't serious and wont succeed. Signups will probably increase, BUT people that onboard to an actual PAY offer will probably decrease.

    If they actually paid via a google Ad or the like to get YOU there, that means the onboard expense per new paying client will increase - because of the influx of mismatched signups. That wording could easily be shifted to something like "If you want to succeed in Social Media.. we have what you need - Use or trial offer to see how we can help you grow your Social" kind of thing. You are aligning your message with what a long term paying user might look like.

    Don't get me wrong here.. I have run "Don't Buy This" type ads before... they work... but I am not sure I would be using this tactic with a reoccurring service type sale if that makes sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Klara Pelhe
    I agree that some positive names, ie, the ones that wake up some kind of motivations among users would be a better choice when it comes to choosing an adequate name for Facebook groups, as you will definitely attract a lot more users that way. Many groups are visible on profiles, and if they are public ones as well, many people will feel ashamed to join some group that talks about some problem, health issue, and so on. So, something that would point out to moms that are brave and strong would be ideal, you will be able to create big community and they will maybe feel better about themselves if they join some group that could help them to change their life.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    There's an FB expert, Rachel Miller, who preaches that FB page and group names should make the prospect feel good about themselves. For example, you may work with overweight moms. They might be embarrassed to know their friends knew they were part of the "Obese Moms" group because of the stigma attached with the word obese. But they wouldn't be so embarrassed for their friends to know they were members of "MomsThat Make It Happen" or "Angel Moms" or something positive.The content of the groups, losing weight for busy, overwhelmed moms might be the same but the feeling that draws you in is more of a positive vibe.

    In contrast to that line of thinking, I saw an exit popup from HootSuite that says basically "This is awkward. We thought you were someone who wanted to succeed on social media. Our bad. We'll leave this trial offer up for someone else." I suppose the someone else would be someone who took their business seriously or smarter than me or more likely to succeed. Kind of a negative, shaming, blaming, type of ad.

    Which types of copy, positive or negative, do you think work best?

    Mark
    As far as a Facebook Group, I would assume your marketing is what got them to the group...so, I would hope you would be positive towards their results in the group name.

    As far as shaming in copywriting, it IS something that can work...IF...you then lead them to a positive outcome that allows them to achieve a sense of pride in their accomplishments.

    If I were to have a headline that said: "To All The Fat Women", I'm sure I would get a lot of eyes...but it would only work if I then went into something personal...I.E..."Hi, I'm Betty and you can imagine how I felt...

    A big thing that is overlooked in copywriting that causes huge problems is when the seller decides to put together a piece about a product that isn't really solving a big problem.

    The more your product is solving a real problem, the less you need to focus on the copywriting.

    The problem is, too many people are trying to take a product and turn it into a problem solving solution...which often it isn't.

    Now, if your product really isn't solving a problem...it's your responsibility as a copywriter to either dump the product...or...figure out how to recreate it's description so that the reader believes it's solving a huge major problem.

    So, debating whether or not shaming works is like debating whether or not anger, sadness, or any other emotion works. It only works when it then leads a prospect to the opposite solution.

    I've seen too many times in copywriting when a copywriter will write one piece and think it is enough for all audiences. It's like doing one ad and thinking it covers everyone.

    Do multiple pieces that relate to every single emotion that is involved with your product and target them to the appropriate audience. Each piece should only cover one emotion and one outcome.

    Some will say, well I'm selling jeans, how does that solve a problem? Could solve the problem of looking sexy...getting more guys/women, looking good, feeling better about yourself...

    so many ways to take a bland product and turn it into a problem solving product.

    Thanks. My little rant for the day that is probably all over the place, but I hope you get the meaining.

    P.S. As far as the hootsuite ad, their advertising targets their ideal customer which allows them to understand their visitors
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  • Can we mebbe prime the suspect?

    It is mebbe a rearrangement of necessary syllabyools, but it has strategic valyoo too.

    Bcs who are prospects anyway?

    Gotta be them you suspect gonna head your way bcs if'n they ain't, either your intel is lame or you gaht no kinda intel at all.

    So: prime this niche groop for stuff they likely gonna wanna.

    I do naht deny the powah of shame to be transformative.

    Without people find 'emselves here an' naht wanna be there no more, there is no more substantial level up evah.

    But the diffrence between elevate an' exploit demands a hooman touch, always.
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