Need a Copywriter - Sales letter for the seduction / dating market

by mph
22 replies
Hello fellow Warriors,

I have a self-help hypnosis product for men who cannot approach and seduce women. It consists of 5 hypnotherapy sessions bundled together into one package, each dealing with a different issue (fear of approaching women, unstoppable self-confidence, mental training for approaching and seducing women, how to be cocky, arrogant and direct etc.)

I am rather looking for a male copywriter, preferably someone who is already familiar with the seduction community and phenomenon, as well as the market.

We have already done extensive research on the niche, including a list of the top 5 sales letters in our sub-niche (written by REALLY good copywriters), a swipe file, a list of features and benefits for our products and many, many other details.

All you have to do is put these ideas in writing and produce a full long-form sales letter.

Our budget is around $400-$500.

Please remember that we have more than 20 pages of research material, insights and guidelines, so this saves you the effort of doing the research and other tasks yourself.

Please e-mail me at vatrainc(at)gmail(dot)com or send me a PM with your price quote, delivery time and any other details that you may find relevant.

Thank you!
#copywriter #dating #letter #market #sales #seduction
  • Profile picture of the author Harlan
    Originally Posted by mph View Post

    Hello fellow Warriors,

    I have a self-help hypnosis product for men who cannot approach and seduce women. It consists of 5 hypnotherapy sessions bundled together into one package, each dealing with a different issue (fear of approaching women, unstoppable self-confidence, mental training for approaching and seducing women, how to be cocky, arrogant and direct etc.)

    I am rather looking for a male copywriter, preferably someone who is already familiar with the seduction community and phenomenon, as well as the market.

    We have already done extensive research on the niche, including a list of the top 5 sales letters in our sub-niche (written by REALLY good copywriters), a swipe file, a list of features and benefits for our products and many, many other details.

    All you have to do is put these ideas in writing and produce a full long-form sales letter.

    Our budget is around $400-$500.

    Please remember that we have more than 20 pages of research material, insights and guidelines, so this saves you the effort of doing the research and other tasks yourself.

    Please e-mail me at vatrainc(at)gmail(dot)com or send me a PM with your price quote, delivery time and any other details that you may find relevant.

    Thank you!
    I was all ready to hook you up with the top writer in the niche.

    Then I saw your budget.

    Get serious. You're in a killer niche that's seen everything.

    You need a real budget.
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    Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
    Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
    http://overnight-copy.com
    Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
    Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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  • Profile picture of the author mph
    The materials we have available for this project are excellent and practically do more than half of the job.

    Thank you for your personal comment.

    We are sure that we can find a rare gem at this price.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Originally Posted by mph View Post

    We have already done extensive research on the niche, including a list of the top 5 sales letters in our sub-niche (written by REALLY good copywriters), a swipe file, a list of features and benefits for our products and many, many other details.
    Please remember that we have more than 20 pages of research material, insights and guidelines, so this saves you the effort of doing the research and other tasks yourself.
    You'll need to supply this to any good copywriter anyway. You're not doing the a favor; you're simply supplying what you need to in order for them to have the information they need to write a winning letter.

    Any good copywriter already has a ton of swipes, knows the leaders in the niche (if they have experience in the niche, which you want) etc etc.

    All you have to do is put these ideas in writing and produce a full long-form sales letter.
    Yeah... because that's the easy part. I mean, any monkey can write a sales letter that converts like crazy... right?

    The materials we have available for this project are excellent and practically do more than half of the job.
    More than half the job? I don't think you really understand what it takes to write to great copy. And honestly... statements like this will keep professional copywriters away.

    I won't comment on your budget. I'm just posting this so you (and other people who read this) can get a better understanding of what we do... and why posts like this scare us away.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author Jarrett
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post


      Yeah... because that's the easy part. I mean, any monkey can write a sales letter that converts like crazy... right?


      -Dan
      Agreed. I actually keep a monkey in the back who bangs out all my sales letters for me.. but then again, he's not just ANY monkey... His name is Coco.

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      • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
        Again, why does everyone want to jump on this guy?

        That's his budget, and if people want to offer their services then they can.

        Or is there a rule here that says you can only post job requests for jobs over $10,000?
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        • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
          Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

          Again, why does everyone want to jump on this guy?

          That's his budget, and if people want to offer their services then they can.

          Or is there a rule here that says you can only post job requests for jobs over $10,000?
          It's because a lot of people who post here asking for copywriters are either ignorant of what copywriting involves or have a big sense of entitlement.

          If I can write you a sales letter that boosts your conversions by just one or two percent, that's potentially a LOT of money in the bank.

          Now if I can do that on a consistent basis, why the heck should I only get paid peanuts for it?

          It's not the budget that these copy pros have a problem with, it's what the op wants for that amount of money.

          I wouldn't be surprised if a few copywriters on here charge $500 to write a single email...forget an entire sales letter.
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          Curtis Ng (blog) - Product Launch Manager
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          • Profile picture of the author willyboy104
            Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

            It's because a lot of people who post here asking for copywriters are either ignorant of what copywriting involves or have a big sense of entitlement.

            If I can write you a sales letter that boosts your conversions by just one or two percent, that's potentially a LOT of money in the bank.

            Now if I can do that on a consistent basis, why the heck should I only get paid peanuts for it?

            It's not the budget that these copy pros have a problem with, it's what the op wants for that amount of money.

            I wouldn't be surprised if a few copywriters on here charge $500 to write a single email...forget an entire sales letter.
            I agree dude totally with what you are saying, but seriously this isn't just the case with copywriting.

            This is the case with EVERYTHING!

            Every service, you always find people with budgets at totally different levels but still wanting the same results.

            It's madness and some people need to be a little bit more practical, but it happens all the time.

            I suppose really, its just a part of Internet marketing. We are all business people, we all want everything, for nothing or well as little as possible or at least within our budget.

            I mean heck, I wouldn't mind giving someone an extra 25% if they did an excellent job, if it was within my budget. But as with most budgets, they are generally too little for too much.

            Anyways...
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        • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
          Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

          Again, why does everyone want to jump on this guy?

          That's his budget, and if people want to offer their services then they can.

          Or is there a rule here that says you can only post job requests for jobs over $10,000?
          If everyone didn't jump on him, people might actually start believing they can get copy at this price!!! Can you imagine the horror!?!
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          • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
            Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM View Post

            If everyone didn't jump on him, people might actually start believing they can get copy at this price!!! Can you imagine the horror!?!
            Aw.. C'mon, Mike.

            You know better than that.

            Marketers get TONS of great, free advice here all the time.

            From my perspective, I see folks not wanting the OP to burn his very limited budget in a hyper-competitive market.

            Not snarling dogs protecting turf.

            Hope you're doing well.

            Best,

            Brian
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            • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
              Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

              Aw.. C'mon, Mike.

              You know better than that.

              Marketers get TONS of great, free advice here all the time.

              From my perspective, I see folks not wanting the OP to burn his very limited budget in a hyper-competitive market.

              Not snarling dogs protecting turf.

              Hope you're doing well.

              Best,

              Brian
              Hehe, good to hear from you Brian. Doing good, should be back on track soon. My last post was a little cheeky and I apologise. I do understand the value of a good copywriter. It's just some peoples expectations differ in what they expect the copywriter to do. And you are of course right to let the OP know that his expectations are probably not going to get him the desired results.

              I always believe you get what you pay for. For $500 you could get an unknown copywriter to do the letter for sure. Will it be anything to write home about? Possibly.. Yes. You may find the next John Carlton at the very beginning of his career about to hit his first home run. Is that likely... No.

              When I pay for a sales letter I am not just paying for a copywriter to sit at a PC and type up something that looks pretty. I expect them to research my demographic, look at my competition and get a good overview for how to connect with my prospects and position my product well.

              I think because I have this perception of the job, I understand that to get the results I need, it is going to cost me more. Although using the same copywriter over a period of time becomes more cost effective as they develop an affinity with the prospects and material becomes easier and quicker to create.

              I have however run across some copywriters with a "That'll be $5k, I'll have it ready by tommorrow afternoon" kind of approach which is a bit shocking in my book.

              If the OP just wants a reasonable letter that reads nice and has some well worded bullet points, then he could get this (from a random on a freelancer site). If he wants to uniquely position his product, in such a competitive marketplace, then he is in the wrong ballpark by a long way.
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              • Profile picture of the author Collette
                vactrain - As you're already aware, you're trying to crack a very crowded, competitive market. What this means for you - in practical terms - is that you're going have to offer something so unique that it makes a bunch of jaded prospects sit up and take notice.

                That's your first task. The next, of course, will be to persuade said jaded prospects that your product is The Geniune Article. The Magic Bullet. The Sin Qua Non. The Ultimate Solution.

                When you're dealing with a market that feels they've "been there; done that; got the (over-priced) t-shirt", you're dealing with a market that's already decided the "worth" of your product. To sell to them, you're going to first have to change their minds. And here's the problem...

                People don't really change their minds. They simply make new decisions based on new information.

                "New" can mean "different", "intriguing", "fascinating", "captivating" or a host of other terms that all lead to one result: capturing your readers' emotional soft spot. That place that bypasses their brain and goes straight to their unspoken desires.

                The bottom line is, you MUST present your prospects with the promise of receiving information they absolutely, unequivocally, without a shadow of a doubt will NOT get anywhere else. You MUST give them new information.

                Because in the absence of new information, there will be no new decision.

                Getting the kind of information that persuades this market that they have never seen/read/heard it before requires more than a 2ft high stack of research.

                It requires digging through that research with a practiced, experienced eye. And unearthing the singular gem that is your unique product promise.

                A copywriter who can accomplish that doesn't find the singular gem using a "template" or "formula". That kind of "Eureka!" result comes from a sort of gut instinct developed and honed by experience, practice, success, and - yes - failure.

                Which is why you will not find such a copywriter for $500. However...

                IF your product is all you say it is, you may be able to have a decent copywriter agree to partner with you for $500 PLUS a % of gross profits.

                This would require you presenting the copywriter with YOUR verifiable credentials for marketing the product. And allowing the copywriter to verify your sales. And allowing the copywriter to review the product prior to taking on the project. In other words...

                You'd have to give, to get.
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                • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Collette View Post

                  vactrain - As you're already aware, you're trying to crack a very crowded, competitive market. What this means for you - in practical terms - is that you're going have to offer something so unique that it makes a bunch of jaded prospects sit up and take notice.

                  That's your first task. The next, of course, will be to persuade said jaded prospects that your product is The Geniune Article. The Magic Bullet. The Sin Qua Non. The Ultimate Solution.

                  When you're dealing with a market that feels they've "been there; done that; got the (over-priced) t-shirt", you're dealing with a market that's already decided the "worth" of your product. To sell to them, you're going to first have to change their minds. And here's the problem...

                  People don't really change their minds. They simply make new decisions based on new information.

                  "New" can mean "different", "intriguing", "fascinating", "captivating" or a host of other terms that all lead to one result: capturing your readers' emotional soft spot. That place that bypasses their brain and goes straight to their unspoken desires.

                  The bottom line is, you MUST present your prospects with the promise of receiving information they absolutely, unequivocally, without a shadow of a doubt will NOT get anywhere else. You MUST give them new information.

                  Because in the absence of new information, there will be no new decision.

                  Getting the kind of information that persuades this market that they have never seen/read/heard it before requires more than a 2ft high stack of research.

                  It requires digging through that research with a practiced, experienced eye. And unearthing the singular gem that is your unique product promise.

                  A copywriter who can accomplish that doesn't find the singular gem using a "template" or "formula". That kind of "Eureka!" result comes from a sort of gut instinct developed and honed by experience, practice, success, and - yes - failure.

                  Which is why you will not find such a copywriter for $500. However...

                  IF your product is all you say it is, you may be able to have a decent copywriter agree to partner with you for $500 PLUS a % of gross profits.

                  This would require you presenting the copywriter with YOUR verifiable credentials for marketing the product. And allowing the copywriter to verify your sales. And allowing the copywriter to review the product prior to taking on the project. In other words...

                  You'd have to give, to get.
                  Collette, with respect for your erudite post. The correct Latin is "Sine Qua Non" - meaning "something absolutely indispensable or essential <reliability is a sine qua non for success>".

                  As for "You MUST give them new information" - not really. You need to "position" it. Or "re-position" it. Re-brand it even. How many Forex bots are on the market? Anything new there? They tell you there is but thats BS. They're all more or less the same. Same with coffee, detergent, floor polish, toothpaste - I.M. Get-Rich-Quick schemes - you name it. All do the same job - more or less.

                  There's no "new information" - its how you serve it up.

                  "People don't really change their minds. They simply make new decisions based on new information" - nope - they just get seduced by something else. There doesn't have to be any "new information" at all. It comes down to the way something is presented, positioned, branded - it's cool factor. You can be the ugliest Dude in the world but if you're cool and driving a Ferrari, strutting your stuff and have the gift of the gab - you're probably gonna have more chance of winning the babe than Mister Plain Vanilla (and I keep thinking of Joe Pesci and Danny deVito).

                  If the OP can do that, he has a home run. Not an impossible task.

                  I'm tempted to take the gig just to prove a point. But not at 500 clams.

                  A proper copy budget is sine qua non for the success of the campaign.
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      • Profile picture of the author eBay_Mastery
        Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post

        Agreed. I actually keep a monkey in the back who bangs out all my sales letters for me.. but then again, he's not just ANY monkey... His name is Coco.
        Hey Jarrett, I'm swamped and have a couple projects I could use an assistant on...say a cub copywriter. How much for the chimp?
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      • Profile picture of the author PPV Guru
        Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post

        Agreed. I actually keep a monkey in the back who bangs out all my sales letters for me.. but then again, he's not just ANY monkey... His name is Coco.


        HA HA!!!!

        Jarrett you are BANANAS!! Let me know if he has a brother named Momo so I can keep him in the back of my truck for that rainy day...LOL.

        Good stuff man.
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        • Profile picture of the author perry2
          Banned
          [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
    I wish you the best, my guess is if you added a zero to the end of your budget you might, might get a good one.

    If $500 is all you have here is what I recommend - hire 4 people here at $97 a pop to write a sales letter.

    Then spend $100 on a few copywriting books, programs, etc. - I recommend this one - http://tinyurl.com/y2m2aj7

    Read up on the info and then once you get the letter in - take it all and swipe from each letter the best of the best and put it all together.

    Or you could do the same thing but ask people to only write certain parts of the letter - one guy for headlines and subheads, another guy for bullets, another guy for the story, etc.

    Good luck - seriously.

    Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author prettyboy
    My whole 2 cents is...if you're a writer and you're not interested then just don't say nothing.

    99% of people already know what they can or cannot afford and also know the risks that they are taking. I thought the threads about hiring copywriters was to serve the purpose of not bashing people just because they are not in a certain writer's price range.

    If they're out of your range, then the respectful thing to do is to just don't say anything. Or if you do say something, say it in a way to where it doesn't come off like the guy is a complete idiot.

    If the person who posts really is an idiot, there's a way to help the person without attacking them. I'm sure that he's probably gotten a lot of responses via pm. Whether it works out or not is all on him.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    in the seduction/dating niche there are other over 3,000 ebooks and trainings and seminars and products

    I have a friend who launched recently a new product and so far, after6 months, he made about 135$ in sales only...be careful...
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    Collette,

    Mind=Blown.

    Awesome advice.

    Write a book already!

    -Scott
    Signature

    Over $30 Million In Marketing Data And A Decade Of Consistently Generating Breakthrough Results - Ask How My Unique Approach To Copy Typically Outsells Traditional Ads By Up To 29x Or More...

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  • Profile picture of the author Len Bailey
    As several of you noted, I doubt any copywriter who's already cut his teeth will touch that budget with a ten-meter cattle prod. BUT, there's always a way to work something out. So I was all set to suggest the OP might find an up-and-coming copywriter willing to accept the $500 plus part of the sales ...

    But I see Colleen beat me to the punch.

    Damnit.
    Signature

    Len Bailey
    Copywriter/Consultant
    Feel free to connect on LinkedIn or Twitter

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  • Profile picture of the author perry2
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author dyadvisor
    Thanks for the post. Some of these self proclaimed copywriters are puffed with air.

    A person asking advice does not need to be joked at. I saw some of the work of the rude posters, and be glad you did not pay for it.

    Seek and you will find. I am disabled and made my money in this business. Some of my $500 clients, became $10,000 clients. I proved my same ability to each person, every time. Some clients by the way, do take contingency agreements.

    There is not a shortage of people that can do this job. $$$ are worthless inside.
    To those with the better than the client attitude, this is a member seeking worthwhile advice. You are hurting you own reputation by your remarks. Potential clients may be reading this, as Forum posts get spread all over the internet. This is not fun, but dumb.

    Especially being "fellow" members. You hurt the image of the up and coming. Yet, again you might not care.

    In 5 years, developing countries will gladly be taking these jobs.

    So, since you can not be honest and polite, at least be sensible. One visit to the "O" website, and $500 might be more than enough.

    Maybe mph is smarter than you think. I will apologize on the behalf of the others, as these comments do not reflect real pros.
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