Would All These Clients Lie For Me?

15 years ago

Would All These Clients Lie For Me?

Dan,

You do NOT want the word "lying" or "lie" within 500 feet of your web site.

Not even in humor.

Instead of suggesting honesty, you would be putting the reverse idea in people's heads.

Many people would think that a truly honest person would never come up with a headline like that.

Marcia Yudkin

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 15 years ago

Silly idea Dan. As Marcia says, "Lie" just puts that very suggestion into people's heads. I have an idea for you - but I'm not putting it down here. It's too good. Email me. I'll give you the idea for free but I'll upsell you to a page of copy at the same time. Using a "secret weapon" Steve Fullman's working on. Wait 'til you see this!

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MontelloMarketing 15 years ago

It's an obvious play on "50,000 Fans Can't Be Wrong..." an Elvis album cover. And an effective one.

That said, I agree with Marcia, keep the word "lie" away from your site.
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Bruce Wedding

15 years ago

I agree with Vin and Marcia but...

Yesterday I saw a banner on Drudge that was so good I saved it. The headline was "Did Obama Lie?"

It was linked to an Agora Financial site. They know a little bit about copywriting.

If you want to see it, just go to drudgereport.com and refresh until you get it.

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ARSuarez

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

I agree with Vin and Marcia but...

Yesterday I saw a banner on Drudge that was so good I saved it. The headline was "Did Obama Lie?"

It was linked to an Agora Financial site. They know a little bit about copywriting.

If you want to see it, just go to drudgereport.com and refresh until you get it.

Good stuff.

Edit: I originally posted the video. Removed because, on second thought, it's unethical to post it without a way for them to track the click rates. Instead, I've attached the banner only.

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virginiad

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

I agree with Vin and Marcia but...

Yesterday I saw a banner on Drudge that was so good I saved it. The headline was "Did Obama Lie?"

It was linked to an Agora Financial site. They know a little bit about copywriting.

If you want to see it, just go to drudgereport.com and refresh until you get it.

They may be able to get away with that because of Drudge's audience...conservatives who are always interested in hearing about how Obama is lying.

They would be attracted to the word "lie", not repulsed by it, as an insurance prospect may be.

Virginia

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Bruce Wedding

15 years ago

Thanks, Angel. I'm mobile or I'd have done it myself. I also noticed they are using the "dictated" sales letter. Interesting.

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ARSuarez 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

Thanks, Angel. I'm mobile or I'd have done it myself. I also noticed they are using the "dictated" sales letter. Interesting.

The letter is really good, I might add.

IMO, a good swipe. Non-hyped, and speaks strongly to the market/audience it was put in front of.

And not a problem, Bruce. Thanks for directing us towards it.
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Bruce Wedding

15 years ago

Thank you, Virginia. I understand how and why it works by knowing their audience.

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Bruce Wedding

15 years ago

Just got another from Mercola... "The 'calcium lie every woman should know about"

These uses of the word are both pointing to an enemy, not at the prospect or product.

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RickDuris

15 years ago

I think "lie" or "lies" are "trigger words." They provoke. They agitate.

For instance:

Drew Kaplan. DTK. You can probably find the piece on hardtofindads.com. He wrote a brilliant piece. The Headline? "Greed, Lies, and Avarice"

How can you not read that?

But then again, he knew his audience to a "T".

I don't know how best to respond, but I would need to noodle through the concept of "Lies." But again, "Lies" is just one of those words...

I am saying this just to be a catalyst. I don't have the answer. Maybe someone else can come up with something better/more. There's a cool headline in there somewhere given the body copy.

- Rick Duris

PS: I also seem to remember a headline that went "Lies, Lies, and Damn Lies" Again, I am not saying it's applicable to this situation. It's just something to think about as you noodle through.

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Ross Bowring

15 years ago

And of course, Gary Bencivenga's "Lies, Lies, Lies!" financial package.

--- Ross

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RickDuris

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross Bowring

And of course, Gary Bencivenga's "Lies, Lies, Lies!" financial package.

--- Ross

Yes, that was it! Thank you. - Rick Duris

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ARSuarez

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Yes, that was it! Thank you. - Rick Duris

Wouldn't happen to mean... https://www.markskousen.com/offers/p...ies-lies-lies/

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Ross Bowring

15 years ago

AR... Thanks for posting this. Lost my digital copy somehow.

I've studied this letter over and over. Written it out multiple times. There's a master class on offer here if you're willing to dig beneath the surface.

--- Ross

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ARSuarez

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross Bowring

AR... Thanks for posting this. Lost my digital copy somehow.

I've studied this letter over and over. Written it out multiple times. There's a master class on offer here if you're willing to dig beneath the surface.

--- Ross

Hey Ross,

You're welcome. I'm sure many others on this forum will be equally happy to have it available (hint: it should be in your swipe).

I love the ad. Read it pretty often (and have deconstructed it, as I'm wont to do).

Only problem is - the ad is too good. And like Clayton Makepeace pointed out... lots of folks try to rip it off or copy the emotion he conveyed. But they don't do it right and end up fouling the whole thing (even when they try to re-do it in the financial market).

Best,

Angel

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Steve The Copywriter 15 years ago

Ahhh...

"Conspiracy" Headlines - they work like pure magic.

They create that "itch" that people just have to scratch.

But - it is important to get it bang on precisely for the target audience.
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- ARSuarez 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter
  
  Ahhh...
  
  "Conspiracy" Headlines - they so often work like pure magic.
  
  ...When they are done right.
  
  If you read the "Lies, Lies, Lies" package, you'll see the right way to do it. When you read others that try to spin conspiracies you'll see - for the most part - how they're done wrong.
  
  This is just like humor. If you want to tell your reader there is a cabal and deception, you better know them very well.
  
  Regards,
  
  Angel
  
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  Steve The Copywriter 15 years ago
  
  Apart from Gary's "Lies, Lies, Lies!"
  
  Mel Martins for Boardroom "What Never To Eat On An Aeroplane" was a dream headline (and absolutely perfect for the audience buying the reports).
  
  I've now got to try and remember the best humor headlines...
  
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Rezbi 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross Bowring

And of course, Gary Bencivenga's "Lies, Lies, Lies!" financial package.

--- Ross

Darn!

You got there before me.
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Jag82

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross Bowring

And of course, Gary Bencivenga's "Lies, Lies, Lies!" financial package.

Ahhh...but of course! Brilliant headline.

A classic swipe from Gary Bencivenga (who is
also very humble in all my correspondences with him).

- Jag

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Steve The Copywriter

15 years ago

Jag,

Over the years I've spoken to Gary a few times.

And yes, not only is he humble - but also one of the nicest, most helpful and genuine person.

And of course the best copywriter in the world.

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Jag82

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter

Jag,

Over the years I’ve spoken to Gary a few times.

And yes, not only is he humble - but also one of the nicest, most helpful and genuine person.

And of course the best copywriter in the world.

Steve, you are right on all counts.

Despite what he has achieved, he remains so humble...
so sincere...so down-to-earth.

A truly great copywriter...and above all...a great
human being and inspiration.

- Jag

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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

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Collette

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Yeah, not sure about the context here... but to say "you don't want the word lie anywhere near your website" is simply personal preference and unsubstantiated theory.

It can definitely work very effectively as mentioned in the examples above... Another would be "LIES! LIES! LIES!"

I doubt that Marcia was offering her "personal preference and unsubstantiated theory". She's been doing this a long, long time. Successfully.

As have Vin and Mal. Both of whom agreed with her. I believe she, and they, were making a recommendation specific to the insurance industry and the OPs website. (Marcia, Vin, and Mal - feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken)

Lots of people here offer up critiques or suggestions without knowing diddly about the OPs business. It's kinda the norm here, but it's not what professionals do for their clients.

Some themes that work very well in some markets bomb in others. For example, the market of people who believe in using pharmaceuticals to cure medical problems are not generally impressed by "Your doctor lies to you" headlines. People who are interested in natural health alternatives, are.

(BTW: I agree with Marcia, Vin, and Mal)

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Oxbloom

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

I doubt that Marcia was offering her "personal preference and unsubstantiated theory". She's been doing this a long, long time. Successfully.

As have Vin and Mal. Both of whom agreed with her. I believe she, and they, were making a recommendation specific to the insurance industry and the OPs website. (Marcia, Vin, and Mal - feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken)

Lots of people here offer up critiques or suggestions without knowing diddly about the OPs business. It's kinda the norm here, but it's not what professionals do for their clients.

Some themes that work very well in some markets bomb in others. For example, the market of people who believe in using pharmaceuticals to cure medical problems are not generally impressed by "Your doctor lies to you" headlines. People who are interested in natural health alternatives, are.

(BTW: I agree with Marcia, Vin, and Mal)

I don't think in this case, the trouble is with the word "lie." Just as I don't think it's with using it in this particular industry.

The problem is in the application.

Here, your headline is forcing readers to ask themselves a yes or no question right off the bat. And I think "yes" is a perfectly reasonable answer to that particular question. And a "yes" answer brands you as a liar and a fraud right off the bat, and dooms you.

Think: why *wouldn't* it be reasonable to suppose that possibly all those people lied for you? Maybe they're all family members. Maybe you just made them all up. Maybe they're real people, but you bribed them with discounted service or something.

I know, it's probably the case that none of these things are true. But you're asking an intelligent reader to decide whether it's *possible* these things *could* be true. You're practically begging him to make up scenarios in his own mind where clients *would* lie.

As soon as you bring up the question of your own ethics, and you've given the reader reason to question them himself. And once somebody is questioning your ethics, they're never going to trust you with their money.

I think there's TONS of room in the insurance game to question the lies/frauds/manipulations of mega-corporations and their cold, calculating, possibly borderline-unethical treatment of customers and data alike...as long as you're doing it in a way that clearly sets you *APART* from them.

But with the "would all these clients lie for me?" angle, you're immediately posing the possibility that you're one of the skeevy ones.

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MontelloMarketing 15 years ago

Oxbloom's got it mostly right on this one.

The problem with having the word "lie" associated with you in this case is the context. In heads like "Lies Lies Lies" or "Greed Lies And Avarice" (correct me if I'm wrong) they were speaking of someone else. An industry? A common enemy perhaps?

But in the OP head, the word is to be forever associated with the author.

That's the no no.
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- RickDuris 15 years ago
  
  Just another piece of copywriter brain candy regarding this topic:
  
  I remember one of the most successful pieces in the network marketing industry was a cassette tape in the 1980's called:
  
  "Dead Doctors Don't Lie"
  
  It was very successful. Lots of people used that info-tape to generate business for their endeavors. It's probably available online somewhere.
  
  Again, this specific idea may or may not be applicable. Personally, I'm just noodling through how the word "lie" can be applied to Dan's situation without casting a negative impression as others have pointed out.
  
  - Rick Duris
  
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  Steve The Copywriter 15 years ago
  
  Rick,
  
  I was never into MLM - but I do remember lots of people using the cassette during the 80's in the UK.
  
  It worked extremely well. It's for a vitamins and minerals MLM business - the original name may have changed - and I have no idea if the "miracle claims" are credible or not - but it's still going today.
  
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Ross James

15 years ago

OK so, let's have some fun, we've got a lot of good writers on board. What if the OP reworded it to say. Would All These Clients Lie To Themselves? It certainly drives curiosity. I could be totally off base but heck, I'd like to hear at least one response. I'm new, I have a lot of questions to be asked, so here is one.

EDIT: I think I answered my own question, even presupposing that a client of theirs would be challenged to lie to themselves sounds possibly bad?

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Oxbloom

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ross James

OK so, let's have some fun, we've got a lot of good writers on board. What if the OP reworded it to say. Would All These Clients Lie To Themselves? It certainly drives curiosity.

I don't think this one is bad in the sense that the first one is. I don't think this associates the "lie" in any negative sense with the business.

I just don't think it's a particularly effective headline.

If I'm curious at all, I'm curious about the psychology of the testimonial writers. And I'm not sure that's the most lucrative possible audience I can draw into the body of my copy.

In "Lies, Lies Lies!", the sub-head is doing the heavy lifting. Lies! is just an attention getter. A full-on headline size-n-scale sub is what's qualifying readers and bringing them on board.

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Bruce Wedding

15 years ago

Remember Fortin's headline for Traffic Secrets?

PROOF!

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Dan Williams

15 years ago

Hate to spoil a good conversation but...Mal's on the case! We'll see if he can conjure up a headline that will grab people by the %^$#

what do you think about...

What's The Secret to Getting Folks to Spill Their Guts About You ?

Why These People Trust Me With Their Money

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Williams

Hate to spoil a good conversation but...Mal's on the case! We'll see if he can conjure up a headline that will grab people by the %^$#

what do you think about...

What's The Secret to Getting Folks to Spill Their Guts About You ?

Why These People Trust Me With Their Money

Nah...distil it right down. Head the testimonials page with something like -

"What do I think of
The Williams Agency?"

or even -

"The Williams Agency?"

or -

"You want to know why I chose
The Williams Agency?"

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colmodwyer

15 years ago

Here's the promo behind the Obama banner ad...

-> 1,354 Years in the Making: The "NEW" War That Could Rocket Oil Past $220 Before 2011

Close the window and you'll get the option to go to the text file, for printing or PDF'ing. Written by the right honorable John Forde:

-> "Learn to Sell or Else..."

It's been updated a couple of times, but I think the "idea" is a 2-year control, so worth swiping for sure.

Dan, how about...

"[YOUR TOWN] Insurance Broker EXPOSED!"

I wrote a similar ad for my old company. I have no idea how it done, but it was modeled on a supposedly successful Dan Kennedy template.

I'm not for using "Williams Agency" anywhere in the headline, because it assumes readers are aware of your company and what you do.

Colm

[EDIT]

Better still...

"[YOUR TOWN] Auto Insurance Broker EXPOSED!"

"[YOUR TOWN] Home Insurance Broker EXPOSED!"

Etc.

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Dan Williams 15 years ago

Used and re-used the "exposed" headline only thing left would be to actually put me in a trenchcoat facing partially away from the camera with the "EXPOSED" headline Not sure my wife...or girlfriend would go for that one:p I'm sure the rest of the chicks would "dig it" though
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- ewenmack 15 years ago
  
  Hi Dan,
  
  Many copywriters says the sole purpose of the headline
  is to get the reader to read the next sentence.
  
  With that in mind and you reaching out to your small town,
  I'm thinking a lot of residents know each other and there will be
  a lot of small town gossip.
  
  An idea would be to use the name of the most well known
  person who you have on your list.
  
  As in...
  
  "Mrs Di Kennedy...
  
  Then followed by the exact number of testomonials...
  
  "Mrs Di Kennedy And 151...
  
  Now call out your town's name so it's also connected to the reader..
  
  "Mrs Di Kennedy And 151 Belmont Residents...
  
  Now use a secret been kept from the reader to jack up the curiosity...
  
  "Mrs Di Kennedy And 151
  Belmont Residents Have Been
  Keeping This Secret From You"
  
  In this one headline you have 4 specific points related to the reader.
  
  I think it would be hard to ignore.
  
  Dan, you and the pro copywriters here may add
  or take out something in the headline to make it stronger.
  
  There may also be something that doesn't allow you to name a person.
  
  I'm just putting out the thinking behind this headline to spark an off-shoot.
  
  All the best,
  Ewen
  
  P.S. Great to see you have rounded up so many testomonials and
  putting them to good use.
  
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Would All These Clients Lie For Me?

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