Priceless coaching program

36 replies
I'm writing this from the consumer point of view. I would like to see your thoughts about high-end programs that do not have a price posted, where you can learn the price only by going through a highly controlled and probably high-pressure sequence set by the marketer.

This is not a case where the price depends on what needs to be done. No, there definitely IS a price but they don't say publicly what it is. You have to inquire, then sign up for an appointment with the business development manager and only after a carefully orchestrated discussion would the price be revealed. You don't even get to speak with the person running the program, whom you would be working with one-on-one.

To me, who was ready to spend money, this process was a deadly turnoff. It's no better than telling you about a program only after you watch a video that you cannot fast-forward through (because they've disabled that control).

I don't like being treated like a sheep.

Now I know there is another point of view, the marketer's point of view, and maybe this process "converts" better. But is there another way of looking at this that also includes respect for the customer?

Marcia Yudkin
#coaching #high end #no price #priceless #program #programs
  • Profile picture of the author BoltAds
    I totally agree with you, just because I'm in the "customer side" and not knowing what the price of mentoring or coaching programs will be cuts off my enthusiasm for joining in.

    Lets hear what other fellow warrior have to say about it, and maybe change what marketers think about the whole process.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimmyvanilla
    Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

    I'm writing this from the consumer point of view. I would like to see your thoughts about high-end programs that do not have a price posted, where you can learn the price only by going through a highly controlled and probably high-pressure sequence set by the marketer.
    Sounds like a Timeshare presentation.

    This process is highly suspicious because it isn't about building a relationship of trust with the lead. It's the opposite in fact. The high pressure, low information environment the potential customer is being routed through breeds mistrust.

    In my opinion, it's better to build a rock solid relationship of trust with the lead first and the best way to do this is to be completely open and honest.
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    • Profile picture of the author johndetlefs
      Originally Posted by jimmyvanilla View Post

      Sounds like a Timeshare presentation.
      That's funny because I was just put through the first 5 minutes of one of those until my Captain Rage kicked in and we left.

      I can't think of anything that I hate more than being led around the garden path in order to find out a price. As a consumer I really, really, really hate it.

      As a marketer I understand why it gets done, and it probably does help with conversion, but I suspect that it also increases buyer remorse and refund rates.

      While I may well be a bit of an odd chicken, I don't think I'm so very different that my reaction to this type of sales is atypical.

      I'd give it a miss.
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  • Profile picture of the author rbates
    Unless you know that the person with whom you will be working is the "Real Deal", and it is a top-of-the-line coaching program, and money is no object, then I would say go for it - maybe. You don't want a "Bait and Switch" where you find out that you will be working with an "Associate". With this type of selling tactic a switch would not surprise me

    There are some really good programs out there; some of these programs are more expensive than others. You will know who you will be working with, and you will know the price ahead of time. Can't guarantee that there won't be an upsell, but you would at least know the price.
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    • Profile picture of the author BoltAds
      Originally Posted by rbates View Post

      ....
      There are some really good programs out there; some of these programs are more expensive than others. You will know who you will be working with, and you will know the price ahead of time. Can't guarantee that there won't be an upsell, but you would at least know the price.
      Who would you recommend that is trustful from the beginning?

      I've been searching for a mentor that doesn't think he is the only one out there, 'cause some prices are too high, and you discover it after a period of excitement ("I'm gonna be rich, now that I have a great mentor") and 1 to 2 hours of conversation ("Great, this is it... this is what I want... WTH!!! With this price I could buy 2 cars!!!), that could be spared elsewhere. Even if some prices are playful, few can fulfill their promises from the start.

      Cheers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    Marcia,

    At the first Warrior Event way back when, I met a fellow there who talked with me about doing exactly what you have found. He liked the sales model of having an initiator contact the wannabie IMer, to pre-qualify (see if there is any credit left on his charge card), then base the fees charged upon that conversation when he sends in a "closer" to talk with the victim - I mean potential customer.

    I wound up on the email/phone list of a business trying to sell IM training to me 4 or 5 years ago. It was the same kind of program. The people who would call me, were there to qualify me, but they couldn't give me a price, because they didn't know the price. Yeah. Right!

    After about a year of these calls, I finally got it out of one of the callers that the price varied between $3,000 and $10,000 depending upon what I would agree to.

    Jeff Paul, John Beck, and John Anderson found themselves in a kettle of hot water when the three of them hired a "coaching" company to sell coaching. The coaching folks were doing the same nonsense, and they were all taken down by the FTC.

    As the Teletubbies would say, "Run away. Run away."

    :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
    idk maybe because I am in advertising, but I find that if I can't find the price right away I instantly get annoyed and begin searching for another solution to my problem.

    I also hate videos that I can't fast forward...

    - Jonathan Webb
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  • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
    Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

    I'm writing this from the consumer point of view. I would like to see your thoughts about high-end programs that do not have a price posted, where you can learn the price only by going through a highly controlled and probably high-pressure sequence set by the marketer.

    This is not a case where the price depends on what needs to be done. No, there definitely IS a price but they don't say publicly what it is. You have to inquire, then sign up for an appointment with the business development manager and only after a carefully orchestrated discussion would the price be revealed. You don't even get to speak with the person running the program, whom you would be working with one-on-one.

    To me, who was ready to spend money, this process was a deadly turnoff. It's no better than telling you about a program only after you watch a video that you cannot fast-forward through (because they've disabled that control).

    I don't like being treated like a sheep.

    Now I know there is another point of view, the marketer's point of view, and maybe this process "converts" better. But is there another way of looking at this that also includes respect for the customer?

    Marcia Yudkin
    Marcia,

    I went through a similar process twice when I signed up with coaching with two different coaching programs at a high investment.

    I was taught the exact same strategy and what I learned is that the reason behind this is that when you speak to someone, it's not about the 'high pressure tactics', but more to do with revealing whether or not the person is committed to the program, whether they want it enough and to check if its the right fit for you.

    Both times, I never once felt pressured to buy anything (although I have spoken to countless others who say the opposite) - rather it was to ensure I was doing the right thing.

    Marketers also use this technique to eliminate time wasters who are looking for the next shiny object to fix their problem or are looking for someone to 'do it for them' - basically to eliminate those who aren't willing to work towards their results and would look for someone to blame if their investment didn't work out.

    There's also another point of view - that of the marketer - they are determining whether or not THEY want to work with you! Those who are doing very well in their business have the luxury of turning down 'high drama' clients and those clients they see as hard work and draining. You usually know when speaking to someone whether you could work with them or not.

    I totally get why this works. I guess it depends on what's being sold. People have different experiences. If it didn't work, then coaches wouldn't use it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hapningnow
      I have seen this "hide the price" tactic used on here several times and I find it highly annoying. It is used as a list building technique so that they can spam you to death in the future. I don't want to have to beg to get the price - just list it and stop stooping to used car salesman techniques.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        I was taught the exact same strategy and what I learned is that the reason behind this is that when you speak to someone, it's not about the 'high pressure tactics', but more to do with revealing whether or not the person is committed to the program, whether they want it enough and to check if its the right fit for you.
        Arfasaira,

        I appreciate your comments.

        However, I think we have to separate the withholding of the price (which I find to be pure manipulation) and the interview process. I don't have a problem with the interview. I've held interviews myself to determine someone's suitability. However, that was done with the interviewee's prior knowledge of the cost of the program.

        That's I think the fair way to proceed. Otherwise, it becomes a process of control, not both sides deciding whether or not to go ahead.

        Marcia Yudkin
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        • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
          Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

          Arfasaira,

          I appreciate your comments.

          However, I think we have to separate the withholding of the price (which I find to be pure manipulation) and the interview process. I don't have a problem with the interview. I've held interviews myself to determine someone's suitability. However, that was done with the interviewee's prior knowledge of the cost of the program.

          That's I think the fair way to process. Otherwise, it becomes a process of control, not both sides deciding whether or not to go ahead.

          Marcia Yudkin
          Yes I agree - price should be mentioned so potential prospects can come to a decision whether or not they want to apply for the program in the first place.

          Both times I went through the process myself, I knew what the investment was upfront, and appreciated the transparency. Not sure about what others think, but the few times I've seen people advertising their programs without the investment price, my instant reaction is always 'I bet that's expensive'.

          I'm assuming most people think the same. It would be interesting to know what effect this has on conversions...
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  • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
    I went through a funnel like this recently.

    I was attracted by the copy.

    The funnel included a series of 10-16 emails which pre-sold the program. He only revealed the offer right at the end.

    I chose to enter the funnel from an educational point of view and educational it certainly was.

    I agree that not stating the price, can be a bit off putting however I can also understand why it's done.

    It's more of a qualification process.

    This way the marketer hears only from people that are serious about their offer.

    Copywriters use it both in their copy and their marketing efforts as well.

    If one looks at these types of coaching programs from a negative mindset then that might prevent them from a new world of possibilities that exist.

    Possibilities that exist only for those who venture into un-chartered territory.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Possibilities that exist only for those who venture into un-chartered territory.
      Possibilities that exist only for those who are willing to pay far, far more than they would have thought they would prior to going through the arduous funnel.

      Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
    I was listening to the story of Alex Jeffreys recently.

    He was working as a construction worker and was looking for a way to financial independence.

    He attended a seminar held by Rich Schefren.

    At the seminar he was offered a $5000 coaching program.

    He had no clue that he was going to be sold a high ticket program.

    At the time he didn't have the money but after hearing what Rich Schefren was offering he thought to himself I HAVE to be on that program.

    So he spoke to his friends and family and raised the $5000 for the seminar.

    One month later he was in profit and now he's helped to make millionaires.

    If a high priced coaching program actually delivers on it's promise then whatever they're charging, hidden or not is justified.

    Rather than look at it from a point of view of being ripped off, what if the price these marketers/coaches is justified and provides many more times value than what you pay for?

    Do you think that all coaching programs that hide their price are rip offs or just some?

    And is it possible that some of those who go on these programs actually succeed with them?
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      If a high priced coaching program actually delivers on it's promise then whatever they're charging, hidden or not is justified.
      I agree. I have no issue with high prices in and of themselves.

      It's the sales process that is manipulative that I am questioning.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        I agree. I have no issue with high prices in and of themselves.

        It's the sales process that is manipulative that I am questioning.

        Marcia Yudkin
        A no. of copywriters don't state their fees on their sales pages. Does that make them manipulative?

        It doesn't bother me that much about the price not being stated, if I a particular coaching program is what I'm looking for anyway. However yes, it would be better if the price was stated upfront.

        We always have the option of not going ahead with it if we don't feel we're getting our money's worth.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by The Marketeer View Post


      So he spoke to his friends and family and raised the $5000 for the seminar.

      One month later he was in profit and now he's helped to make millionaires.
      It would be interesting to know what percentage of people who pay $5,000 or more for coaching (or a seminar) find success.

      What do you think... 10%? 5%? 1%?

      And at what point does the ethical marketer say to him/herself, "x out of 100 people are flushing their money down the toilet. I shouldn't be making this offer."?

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author michaelpotter
        If I am interested in something I always scroll down to the price, if that is acceptable I go back and read the copy.

        I wonder what percentage of prospects/would be buyers do this?
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        • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
          It would be interesting to know what percentage of people who pay $5,000 or more for coaching (or a seminar) find success.

          What do you think... 10%? 5%? 1%?

          And at what point does the ethical marketer say to him/herself, "x out of 100 people are flushing their money down the toilet. I shouldn't be making this offer."?
          Alex,

          From what I've observed, the percentage of positive results from expensive coaching may actually be somewhat higher than for people buying less expensive products/services.

          People who pay nothing for coaching tend to get no results, because psychologically and financially, they're not invested in having it work.

          It's well known in the information marketing industry that many products purchased never even get opened. It's true for books as well.

          I don't think the argument that the author, or home study course creator, or coach is responsible for the client's/buyer's success is valid. No more than that the physician is responsible for the patient getting well, the wealth manager for the client getting richer, the architect for a family's happiness in the house or the singing coach for the client getting famous. They do their best. But there are always factors at work beyond the service provider's control.

          Conscientious coaches do try to screen out those whom they feel will not succeed, and they also refrain from making promises that are impossible to meet. Apart from that, it's the client's responsibility to succeed (or not).

          Marcia Yudkin
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          • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
            Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

            I don't think the argument that the author, or home study course creator, or coach is responsible for the client's/buyer's success is valid. No more than that the physician is responsible for the patient getting well, the wealth manager for the client getting richer, the architect for a family's happiness in the house or the singing coach for the client getting famous. They do their best. But there are always factors at work beyond the service provider's control.

            Conscientious coaches do try to screen out those whom they feel will not succeed, and they also refrain from making promises that are impossible to meet. Apart from that, it's the client's responsibility to succeed (or not).

            Marcia Yudkin
            Nicely said, Marcia.

            ----

            That stated...

            Not stating the price upfront or withholding the price until after the person has been qualified increases the perceived value.

            Having a deliberate qualification process increases the perceived value.

            Refusing people that do not meet certain qualifications increases the perceived value for the others.

            Making you go through a gatekeeper first increases the perceived value.

            Having people wait increases the perceived value.

            Creating deliberate scarcity over a resource increases the perceived value.

            Having qualifications for staying in a program, or reaching certain levels of service, increases the perceived value.

            I feel strategies and tactics like these, just like placing an inordinately high price on something in the first place, has more to do with appreciating and respecting the intrinsic value of an item than manipulation.

            The big takeaway is these types of devices dramatically influence a Client's commitment and as a result, success.

            The business owner has to respect and revere his value first, before anyone else will.

            - Rick Duris
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            • Profile picture of the author max5ty
              Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post


              Not stating the price upfront or withholding the price until after the person has been qualified increases the perceived value.

              Having a deliberate qualification process increases the perceived value.

              Refusing people that do not meet certain qualifications increases the perceived value for the others.

              Making you go through a gatekeeper first increases the perceived value.

              Having people wait increases the perceived value.

              Creating deliberate scarcity over a resource increases the perceived value.

              Having qualifications for staying in a program, or reaching certain levels of service, increases the perceived value.

              I feel strategies and tactics like these, just like placing an inordinately high price on something in the first place, has more to do with appreciating and respecting the intrinsic value of an item than manipulation.

              The big takeaway is these types of devices dramatically influence a Client's commitment and as a result, success.

              The business owner has to respect and revere his value first, before anyone else will.

              - Rick Duris
              Knowing the price and still having a qualification process increases the value just as much.

              Knowing the price and still having to go through a gatekeeper increases the value just as much.

              Knowing the price and having to wait increases the value just as much.

              Knowing the price and knowing it's scarce increases the value just as much.

              Knowing the price and having to meet qualifications to stay in the program increases the value just as much.

              Having Johnny being treated like an idiot that needs to be hypnotized by some slick polyester wearing copywriter...decreases the value.

              The most expensive things I can think of -- cars, real estate, boats, jewelry...all have a listed price...but then again they have a high perceived value because of the reputation they have.

              If you're trying to put together a coaching program and you yourself have no perceived value...you probably do need a bag of tricks.
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              • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
                Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

                Knowing the price and still having a qualification process increases the value just as much.

                Knowing the price and still having to go through a gatekeeper increases the value just as much.

                Knowing the price and having to wait increases the value just as much.

                Knowing the price and knowing it's scarce increases the value just as much.

                Knowing the price and having to meet qualifications to stay in the program increases the value just as much.

                Having Johnny being treated like an idiot that needs to be hypnotized by some slick polyester wearing copywriter...decreases the value.

                The most expensive things I can think of -- cars, real estate, boats, jewelry...all have a listed price...but then again they have a high perceived value because of the reputation they have.

                If you're trying to put together a coaching program and you yourself have no perceived value...you probably do need a bag of tricks.
                Ehhh...

                Actually no, for the reasons that Ross explained quite clearly and which Rick so kindly clarified even further.

                For the record we're talking about good quality coaching programs that have a proven record.

                The thing about coaching programs is that they're not for everyone.

                The coach is usually looking for a certain type of person.

                The ones who are right for the program will understand its value and not make a big deal about the price or be concerned too much about whether it's displayed at the beginning or not.

                And those that don't appreciate or understand it's value, well I'm sure you can guess what they do.
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                • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
                  The ones who are right for the program will understand its value and not make a big deal about the price
                  If you are in the realm of business, value is something that cannot be understood divorced from price. Coaching is not something reasonable people want whatever the price.

                  If it's $5,000, is it worth it to you?

                  If it's $150,000, is it worth it to you?

                  Those are two very different propositions.

                  Or are you saying the right people will sign up whether it's $5,000 or $150,000? People, no. Sheep, maybe.

                  Marcia Yudkin
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                  • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
                    Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

                    If you are in the realm of business, value is something that cannot be understood divorced from price. Coaching is not something reasonable people want whatever the price.

                    If it's $5,000, is it worth it to you?

                    If it's $150,000, is it worth it to you?

                    Those are two very different propositions.

                    Or are you saying the right people will sign up whether it's $5,000 or $150,000? People, no. Sheep, maybe.

                    Marcia Yudkin
                    For some people, Coaching is something reasonable people ARE willing to pay for whatever the price.

                    Maybe you missed the part of my post earlier where I said if the coach delivers what they say they're going to deliver then the price (whatever it is and if the prospect is willing to pay it) is justified.

                    The prospect makes the choice based on their needs, goals and budget. No one is holding a gun up to their head. It's a free world and they make their own choices.

                    The other point about coaching programs is that the price is usually non negotiable. Its whatever the coach decides it is based on what value he knows he can deliver. You either accept it or you don't.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        It would be interesting to know what percentage of people who pay $5,000 or more for coaching (or a seminar) find success.

        What do you think... 10%? 5%? 1%?

        And at what point does the ethical marketer say to him/herself, "x out of 100 people are flushing their money down the toilet. I shouldn't be making this offer."?

        Alex
        In my experience with these programs the % is much higher. Hard to put a number on it, but as Marcia said, info products have a single-digit success ratio in terms of people acting on what they learn. The bigger coaching investment gets people into action-taking mode and outta bouncing from shiny object to shiny object.

        For example, one of my clients who teaches MMO has 42 students who are actively making $3K/month via their efforts. Had he just come out with an info product to share the same info he may have had 2 or 3 success stories and that's probably being generous.

        --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Grace
    I wouldn't get offended by the process, because it's just a process that one guy might use that suits his or her business best. And yes, many people do want to talk on the phone first to determine if they even want to work with you.

    In my case, I do disclose price and take a deposit before getting on the phone. At that time we both determine if we're a good fit, no high pressure. And believe me, I get picky... especially because in some cases I invite them to my home for a week for a working vacation.

    In general though, coaching IMHO is the best way to get a head start. When I started I paid 5k for 12 phone calls and it's a big reason I am where I am today. Just make sure you get it from someone who has results and not some flunky in a call center making 10 bucks an hour.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      A no. of copywriters don't state their fees on their sales pages. Does that make them manipulative?
      No. I said in my original post that I have no problem not stating a fee when the fee depends on what needs to be done. Most copywriters tailor the fee to the job, and that's entirely reasonable. They are not holding back the fee in order to get one up on the client.

      Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
    If you state the price at the top of the funnel, or near the top, the potential client spends the rest of the funnel (if they even move forward after the sticker shock) in a logical state trying to convince themselves why they shouldn't invest that kind of money. And they see every interaction in the funnel as one more step in that marketer trying to wrangle that dollar amount from from them.

    Same as any sales letter, if you've got a high price you usually wait on that revelation until value has been built to justify it.

    Same goes for high-ticket coaching. You reveal the price too early and you lose a mass of people who would buy (and hopefully benefit from the program) if only they discovered the price in a more emotional and less guarded state of mind.

    So reveal the price too early and the business model falls apart.

    --- Ross
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    • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
      Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

      If you state the price at the top of the funnel, or near the top, the potential client spends the rest of the funnel (if they even move forward after the sticker shock) in a logical state trying to convince themselves why they shouldn't invest that kind of money. And they see every interaction in the funnel as one more step in that marketer trying to wrangle that dollar amount from from them.

      Same as any sales letter, if you've got a high price you usually wait on that revelation until value has been built to justify it.

      Same goes for high-ticket coaching. You reveal the price too early and you lose a mass of people who would buy (and hopefully benefit from the program) if only they discovered the price in a more emotional and less guarded state of mind.

      So reveal the price too early and the business model falls apart.

      --- Ross
      Yes, of course.

      It's all part of the sales strategy.

      You can't hold it against a salesman for doing what he does best.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Most people just skip to the price right off the bat anyways regardless of how long the sales letter is...

      And if it's one of those deals where they have to chat with you to get the price...most sense they're about to get patted down to see how deep their pockets are.

      If you can't put the price in big bold font, front and centered, you're probably having a hard time justifying it yourself...and if you need a long sales letter or a face to face to explain to me how you're gods gift sent here to save my pitiful self, I'll pass.

      I say quit treating potential customers like idiots.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        If you state the price at the top of the funnel, or near the top, the potential client spends the rest of the funnel (if they even move forward after the sticker shock) in a logical state trying to convince themselves why they shouldn't invest that kind of money. And they see every interaction in the funnel as one more step in that marketer trying to wrangle that dollar amount from from them.
        I am wondering why that isn't the case for other luxury items, then, such as $5000/night hotel rooms, Bentleys, private jet timeshares, etc. Is it that such items are geared toward a population who are used to spending that kind of money and high-end coaching programs are not?

        Marcia Yudkin
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        • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
          Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

          I am wondering why that isn't the case for other luxury items, then, such as $5000/night hotel rooms, Bentleys, private jet timeshares, etc. Is it that such items are geared toward a population who are used to spending that kind of money and high-end coaching programs are not?

          Marcia Yudkin
          I think so, Marcia.

          A typical coaching program is between $5K and $10... going up to $50K or more for the elite of the elite masterminds, etc. That's multiples of most people's mortgage or rent payments. So it's far from the norm that people are used to paying for anything that's not a house or a car.

          --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    I usually only read a few blogs...here's one I was catching up on and just happened to come across this post again about putting your prices on a website.

    You might find it entertaining.

    Ashley is a successful female copywriter, but be warned, she uses graphic language.

    List Your Prices (THE RIGHT WAY) (Calling All Photographers.) (Hedgehogs Welcome, Too.) | the middle finger project
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Let me come at this from a different angle. There are three big reasons I can think of not to divulge price prematurely.

    Having a stated price for coaching services commoditizes the coach--regardless of how high the price.

    By not having a stated price, the coach is implicitly telling the market "I refuse to be seen as a commodity. You can not commoditize me."

    Obviously at some point the price has to be revealed or negotiated. But not until the situation and needs are understood and the value has been acknowledged, or at least fully presented to the potential Client.

    If you see this as manipulative, you're probably better off blazing your own trail up success mountain. Because you'll make a terrible Client, always second guessing the coaching. And then blaming the coach for lack of results.

    I'll give you a quick case in point. I've been involved with more than a few ultra-expensive coaching programs.

    To get the ball rolling, we sometimes have potential Clients fill out a long situation and needs assessment questionnaire. Some though wouldn't fill it out or put the time and attention into it.

    Those people did not get in.

    Their money was irrelevant. They couldn't follow the simplest instruction. They wouldn't take the coaching. We had proof. They wanted to do things their way.

    People were shocked when we we told them no.

    But why should we jeopardize our collective results, our reputation, for someone who doesn't execute as we ask?

    Makes no sense.

    This is a coaching program. Do what we say and you'll see results.

    If you deviate, you give up the right to expect the results.

    Some people may view the qualification process (without revealing price) as manipulative, when in fact, it forces focus on the most important question--"Regardless of price, can we truly help this person?"

    Once that question is answered, we can take the next step. Because we all understand the situation, needs and value provided.

    At that point, the potential Client can make an informed decision. He or she has all the information.

    Also, with true high-end, reputable coaching programs (in other words, not boiler plated) the coach tries to leverage existing assets and resources, whatever they may be in a person. A really good coach acknowledges these assets and resources and tailors the price and offer accordingly.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Having a stated price for coaching services commoditizes the coach--regardless of how high the price.
      I don't agree with that, for two reasons. First, think of a one-of-a-kind vintage car or beach property. It's not a commodity just because it has a stated price. Second, most people don't consider high-priced coaching the way they view a commodity. They want *that coach* because they felt a connection with him or her.

      I checked that out once when I was talking to Randy Gage after a presentation in which he'd mentioned his $25,000 coaching program. I asked him if people signed up for that from just reading about it online. He said no, never. People only signed up when they had met him or seen him speak. In that situation, the clients would not be viewing him as a commodity. They weren't shopping. They wanted him.

      If you see this as manipulative, you're probably better off blazing your own trail up success mountain. Because you'll make a terrible Client, always second guessing the coaching. And then blaming the coach for lack of results.
      I take full and complete responsibility for my own success. And I've been coached successfully. In those situations, I felt equal to my coach and was treated as such. We simply have different areas of expertise. When I ask for help from a coach, I have some gaps in my ability or blind spots in my perception. The coach helps me put things together, and I'm grateful for the help.

      Thanks, Rick, for your comments, because I see now that I can only be coached by someone who treats me in this way and not in a one-down fashion. And perhaps posting the price is something that signals a philosophy of seeing the client as an equal partner in the transaction. Perhaps coaches who have that philosophy are in the minority. But I know a few and from now on, I will cross the others off my list.

      This is a coaching program. Do what we say and you'll see results.
      True, some coaches work in that kind of framework. But not all. Some are much more flexible than that. It's more like, "I will help you figure out what to do to see the results you want." And maybe the kind of coaching program you are talking about is really a commodity, since the client pretty much becomes a cog in the system and must fit it.

      This has been a very useful thread, and I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed.

      Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Marcia, I guess the question you probably want to ask yourself is "Where is the perceived value for YOU, personally? What is the difference that will make all the difference in your relationship with a coach?

    You can get lots of ideas and impressions from talking with coaches, but only you can really answer that for yourself.

    For instance years ago, I engaged a very expensive coach to help me negotiate large, complex deals. She was behind the scenes feeding me ideas about approach, strategies, deal structuring, potential scenarios and communication.

    After a frustrating false start, we discovered what really made the relationship work.

    And that was for me to have 24/7 access to her by phone. When I called, I wanted her to drop everything and pay attention to me. Because I was in the process of negotiating some pretty big deals and time was of the essence.

    It worked really well.

    Of course, that type of relationship is rather unique and I compensated her accordingly. But the point I'm trying to make is immediate access made all the difference in that situation.

    By your posts, it's obvious to me you want a more personal relationship similar to the one I had with my coach above. And not only do you not want to be treated like a sheep, my guess is you'll want individual, tailored coaching to you and your situation. Not templated. Not boiler-plated.

    Yes, you may be given access to grounding/study materials and resources, and you may be put on at track or provided a format to use. But being able to get the coach's personal time, insight, direction and encouragement will really allow you to achieve what you want for yourself.

    Good luck with your search.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: The other way you can go is to be an apprentice to the coach where possible. Where opportunities are brought to the table and you work on them collaboratively. Personally, I prefer this approach because you're working shoulder-to-shoulder with each other. You get past the "Do as I say, not as I do" phenomena quickly.
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