Critique my upsell (monthly sub) copy?

12 years ago

Yes. Be yourself. But do these things you don't do naturally. I promise, women will trip over themselves to fall on your dick.

I'm normally a skeptic for this BS. Of course, that's because I hate running end games to get what you want, but I'm not the target market.

However, even I can see you're saying two different things that don't go together. Either you're making a meaningful connection heading toward LTR or you're trying to get her in bed. Pick one or talk about tantra.

Thanks
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skyreader7 12 years ago

I promise, women will trip over themselves to fall on your dick.

What an image; had to laugh out loud.

Yet men must believe this, or they wouldn't be shelling out their hard cold cash by the truckloads.
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Tim R

12 years ago

Why don't you include the 1 month trial as a bonus with the main product? Will boost the perceived value of the main product and will get more people enrolled for the monthly program.

Thanks

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

If I were looking for a critique of my niche/sub-niche I would have gone elsewhere. What I'm selling is legitimate self-improvement information for men on how to be more attractive to women without forcing themselves to become someone they're not, but I'm not here to argue about the general population's misconceptions based on patriarchal double standards for sex, seduction, etc. I already do that within my niche and WF is not my niche.

I'm just here for help with my copy...

Thanks
1 reply

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RickDuris 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelChief

I'm just here for help with my copy...

Hire somebody who knows this market.

But let me give you a clue:

Guys in this market follow leaders. Gurus. Personalities. Authorities. They want to be able to trust the information works.

The blind positioning of your copy does you no favors.

- Rick Duris
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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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Cam Connor

12 years ago

The first month of Seductive Introvert for just $1

Not a good headline in my opinion. Consider revising.

Thanks
1 reply

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

The first month of Seductive Introvert for just $1

Waste of a headline. It doesn't matter if it's only $1, or if it's free when you've built absolutely no value into it...

Are you saying that under the assumption that I've put nothing of value into my product? Or are you saying something about the copy communicating no value somehow?

Thanks
1 reply

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Cam Connor

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelChief

Are you saying that under the assumption that I've put nothing of value into my product? Or are you saying something about the copy communicating no value somehow?

I'm saying the headline conveys no value... why should they believe there's anything of value in your product at that point... especially if you're willing to give it away for almost NOTHING...

Build value first, THEN the $1 thing should just be a pleasant surprise...

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RickDuris

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

Compare what you wrote above to the headline and subhead in your sales letter. The two aren't even close.

Note to OP from the general population...

Sexually objectifying a women = bad

Respecting a women = good.

Alex

Actually Alex, and you know this, he's not selling to the general population. He's selling to guys who want to connect with women.

His micro-targeted niche of introverts put women on pedestals by default. The respect is already there.

- Rick Duris

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Quality Copywriter 12 years ago

"Limited time offer ONLY for those who purchased"

talk to them on a one to basis...not like a crowd of people.

you have to meet them where they are right now.

take about what they have just bought.

repeat beenfits.

then position your offer explaining how it will help them more.

and that;s just the tip of the iceburg.
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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

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RickDuris

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

My general population comment was a sarcastic reply to his "general population's misconceptions based on patriarchal double standards" remark.

A guy looking to seduce women has no respect for women whatsoever.

Alex

I appreciate you're trying make this a morals conversation. We can debate that one all day long and neither one of us would agree with the other.

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Alex Cohen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

I appreciate you're trying make this a morals conversation. We can debate that one all day long and neither one of us would agree with the other.

In the context of this thread it does.

The sub headline in the OP's sales piece states, "Master the art of seduction while creating deep and meaningful connections with women".

The two are mutually exclusive and cannot be effectively combined... a point that can only be understood if one understands the moral values of the two extremes.

Alex

Thanks
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Tim R

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

The sub headline in the OP's sales piece states, "Master the art of seduction while creating deep and meaningful connections with women".

The two are mutually exclusive and cannot be effectively combined...

I can see why you would have this opinion, but it isn't actually true.

More importantly, many people in the target market believe that both are possible.

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Cam Connor 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

A guy looking to seduce women has no respect for women whatsoever.

Alex

That's who he's targeting there. Objectifying women works well in that market.
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Justin012 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

His micro-targeted niche of introverts put women on pedestals by default. The respect is already there.

- Rick Duris

Exactly, and all he wants is an opinion on his sales copy and video. He's obviously put a lot of work into creating this product and $1 is definitely great value for guys who are introverts, that find it hard to talk to women and get laid.

There is a huge market for this kind of product because I use to follow all that PUA stuff myself. I'm well aware that there is still a demand for newer pickup material.

Ever since the book "THE GAME" By Neil Struass was released back in 2006 guys wanted to emulate pickup artists from the book and learn how to become more attractive to women.

For example look at Joshua Pellicer Seduction program "The Tao of Badass".

It's got a very high gravity of affiliates still promoting his program for around $45 commission over at Clickbank and it's apparently one of the best pickup products for guys who are into attracting and seducing women.

So there is definitely a market for this "Introvert Product" as long as he does a good job marketing it.

I wouldn't be surprised if you said the same thing if Ross Jeffries from seduction.com posted a thread and asked you guys to critique his new sales copy, "how to get women into bed VVII".

Besides, the PUA community is still alive and still sarging, so best of luck with the product dude, but remember to keep giving value and your sales and subscribers will go through the roof!

Now I deserve free instant access for sticking up for you!
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- Chriswrighto 12 years ago
  
  My main concern with the copy is that I don't believe it.
  
  It sounds like you're trying to trick me into using extrovert techniques.
  
  I don't even begin to believe you're an introvert until late in the video.
  
  In fact, around the 6.30 mark is what I wanted to hear right up front... because most introverts who have tried to pick up girls know how exhausting it can be. Heck, introverts who have just tried to socialise know how exhausting it is.
  
  (Which you should spend more time, thus spending more time building a relationship with me.)
  
  None of your bullets are tailored for an introvert. They could be for the general audience... what I want to see is something like:
  
  "The 3 simples steps you need to find your target, get her on her own and back to your place WITHOUT spending hours beating off her cock-blocking friends."
  
  Not the actual thing, but in there you've got pretty much all the things an introvert would love:
  
  - Quick'n'easy (3 steps)
  - Laid
  - Without having to deal with more socialising than necessary
  
  - Chris
  
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angiecolee

12 years ago

Pay attention. It wasn't a critique of your niche. We've already established I'm not your market. But if you pay attention, you'll see the value in your target market's target market's commentary.

You're talking about two different things as if they're one: being yourself and being a master seducer. If they as themselves are already master seducers, they don't need you. Unless you're unlocking some crazy shy guy sex secret no one's ever heard about. And if you are, for God's sake, talk about THAT.

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Complex

12 years ago

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Tim R

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Complex

Michael,

The offer itself needs work. Then work on the copy.

Because as it stands - even if you had awesome conversions - the refunds/chargebacks/cancellations would be sky-high. Especially since it's ClickBank.

Copy isn't magic. It has to be attached to a strong offer.

Meaning what exactly?

The offer is a $1 trial for his subscription program. How is this going to lead to higher refunds and cancellations?

For a subscription based service the amount of refunds and cancellations will depend on how much value people believe they are getting from the content. Without having seen the content he is offering you can't really speculate on how people will respond to it.

Thanks

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

The content's actually really good. Lots of value and overdelivery in there. Only thing that needs work is the copy.

Thanks

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

Gentlemen,

I would appreciate it if this thread wasn't further derailed by a debate on morals based on mismatched semantics. This is just a simple matter of the word "seduction" meaning different things to different people, and perhaps a different set of standards to the moral implications of sex in general.

Regardless, please let that topic rest. The only thing that matters with that "Master the art of seduction while creative deep and meaningful connections with women" subheader is that it makes complete sense to my target market because they're not thinking of "seduction" in the same way Alex Cohen and other more conservative folks may think of it. They're already primed through other content abundantly available throughout this particular niche to think of seduction in a healthier way (free from the madonna/whore complex, aware of the negative effects of slut-shaming, realizing that men and women have more similar innate desires than as it appears, etc.).

So, I would greatly appreciate it if all further replies in this thread were geared toward the actual copy rather than any more personal moral interpretations.

Thanks

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

I have updated the page!

Please let me know how I can improve the written portion of the copy, and if there are any glaringly wrong things with the video...

I'm particularly concerned if the buttons at the bottom of the page are visually optimal for conversions.

Thanks
1 reply

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Alexa Smith Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelChief

Please let me know how I can improve the written portion of the copy

Changing the wording of this sub-heading may help ...

Let me teach you those rules so that you can get a leg up on the competition.

Please excuse the observation that that unfortunate expression makes it sound more like "seduction" for dogs, than for men.

.
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ixder

12 years ago

The message is really clear to me. Except the first line contains no real information, but you may have your reasons to put it there.

READ THIS PAGE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU CONTINUE

If this is a real quote, you may paraphrase it:

I kissed at least half a dozen very attractive women yesterday and last night.

If this guy really had issues seducing women, he must remember exactly how many he has kissed in the last 24 hours. Why not write six or seven? Or 'lots' if 'six' doesn't sound like many?

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1 reply

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

Thanks for the reply, ixder!

Originally Posted by ixder

The message is really clear to me. Except the first line contains no real information, but you may have your reasons to put it there.

That's there because this is not a front-end sales page. It's an upsell like an OTO. Except it's technically not an OTO because my autoresponder reminds them of this offer again later.

So I basically put the "read this page carefully before you continue" thing to emulate other OTO upsell pages like this: One Time Offer

Originally Posted by ixder

If this is a real quote, you may paraphrase it:

If this guy really had issues seducing women, he must remember exactly how many he has kissed in the last 24 hours. Why not write six or seven? Or 'lots' if 'six' doesn't sound like many?

That is a real quote and I've left it mostly unaltered.
So would you recommend I change it to 6 even if "half a dozen" was his exact wording?
I'm guessing his line of thought was that "half a dozen" was an accurate expression to express that there were too many to count for him compared to his past experiences.

Thanks
1 reply

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ixder

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelChief

That is a real quote and I've left it mostly unaltered.
So would you recommend I change it to 6 even if "half a dozen" was his exact wording?
I'm guessing his line of thought was that "half a dozen" was an accurate expression to express that there were too many to count for him compared to his past experiences.

Tough one, I'm skeptical about such quotes and usually think they're made up. It actually adds to your integrity to keep it a literal quote. If somehow that is conveyed to the reader. I don't know what's best, was just giving you my personal impression.

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davemiz

12 years ago

interesting thread. I probably know the niche better than everyone commenting since I've been selling in it for 10 years (and counting)...

majority of the comments while meaning well, are way off.

You guys are trying to put bandaid's on this... change this subhead... change that word... etc.

bad amateur move.

My teacher in advertising school had a great saying... one that would be perfectly fitting for this...

"you can take a turd and polish it up... really nice and make it shiny... like a diamond... but its not... at the end of the day, it's still a turd."

for those of you who don't 'get' it... turd is a shitty idea.

and people who aren't familiar with creative process tend to fall in love with their ideas.... those of us who are familiar with it, know otherwise... :-)

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MichaelChief

12 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

My teacher in advertising school had a great saying... one that would be perfectly fitting for this...

"you can take a turd and polish it up... really nice and make it shiny... like a diamond... but its not... at the end of the day, it's still a turd."

for those of you who don't 'get' it... turd is a shitty idea.

Are you suggesting that the entire copy is fundamentally in need of a complete overhaul?

Or that the idea of the product itself simply won't sell?

If the former, I'd appreciate some more input.

Thanks

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Complex

12 years ago

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Tim R

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Complex

P.S. @TimR – really? What's the best stick rate you've ever had on a continuity offer in the seduction space? Don't talk to me like some random newb. And then have the audacity to sound like a random newb yourself. Value is ambiguous and essentially meaningless. And it certainly is NOT a stick strategy. Not in the least bit. Value can be fleshed out and defined depending on the market. Dripping out content over a long period of time is NOT valuable in this space. It's easy to resist. Too easy.

Sorry, but I stopped taking you seriously after you wrote this:

Originally Posted by Complex

Next – Go look at what's already out there. Here's a hint: Most of the best selling, longest selling pua/seduction offers are not sold through Click Bank.

I guess that Josh Pellicer and Jason Capital who have done 7 figures through Clickbank are not what you consider best-selling

And this:

Originally Posted by Complex

Finally – in that space, $ 1 trials attract the worst possible customers. In fact, you won't be able to call most customers after they cancel, refund, chargeback.

You know that some of the top companies in this niche offer $1 trials, right?

Originally Posted by Complex

Value is ambiguous and essentially meaningless.

Um yeah, ok.

If someone is receiving more perceived value from the product than what they're being asked to pay for it then they'll stick around.

You have no idea how good his content is so you don't know how people will respond to it once they're signed up.

Contrary to what you believe, there are not thousands of similar offers like this in the niche. Something that specifically calls out to and targets introverts is fairly unique.

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davemiz

12 years ago

wait. i'm not supposed to have a known name dammit! I'm supposed to be "underground"... I'll have you know.. I write under a very cleverly disguised pen name... :-)

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davemiz

12 years ago

michael,

they're offering subheadline and copy ideas, which is what you'd expect from a copywriting forum... but IMO you need to look at the overall strategy and positioning of the product... the copy at this point is irrelevant.

i've never seen anything like the type of product you're selling... thats the first thing..Then... I dont know anyone who's selling a similar offer like you're selling successfully.

how's it converting?

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Cam Connor 12 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

how's it converting?

It's most likely not converting well in my opinion.
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davemiz

12 years ago

sell them what they want, give them what they need.

:-)

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Critique my upsell (monthly sub) copy?

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