Looking for a mentor

Most people who know what they are doing are busy people.

There are probably people here that could mentor you.

But your post says very little about what's in it for them.

Copy 101 - talk about your reader, not so much about you.

Alberto, you made one of the biggest mistakes in sales and copywriting.

Your thread is simply what's in it for you... you didn't sell anyone here on WHY they'd want to mentor you.

It was all written to get you what YOU want... when you should have listed all the reasons someone would want to mentor you.

#1 rule in copy... it's not about you, it's about your audience... so tell us why we'd want to mentor you.

Not trying to be a d*ck... but if you want to succeed in this biz and beat out a lot of competition... everything you write should address what's in it for your intended reader.

Just hammer that home and you'll be better off in your writing... what does my audience want, and not ME as a salesperson.

About 7 years ago I got a letter in the mail from an upcoming
copywriter asking for extra work I could pass on to him.
It was BRILLIANT. I don't think that he wrote this
himself but it was a swipe. It was persuasive and I did
think twice about taking him on.

I don't know if any other copywriter may know the letter
I'm referring to. I tried to save it but can't place my hand on
it now. I know this is pretty sketchy but perhaps someone
may know this letter.

-Ray Edwards

Alberto,

We actually "get" what you are saying.

You want and no doubt are willing to pay (splutters…there would be no f***** point asking for free help) - for a mentor.

You know what - it is is a fair enough question.

And you might think some of the replies have been a bit harsh.

None of us can put our hands up and say "Go on then, wire us $7,500 plus and we'll get started"

It's just not the done thing on the forum.

And discovering how to be a copywriter and yes it is easier with a mentor - IS tough.

So I'm hoping you're not peeved with the tough replies.


Steve

I've never seen the word "balls" so much in one thread.

Are you wanting a mentor or to be a copy cub?

Contrary to what others are saying here,,,there are top copy guys who have mentorship programs.

Mentorship under the right person can cut your learning curve dramatically.
But it does cost money...and it can get very expensive.

I know some guys who spent a fortune to become great at copy but still have no clients to show for it.
after spending thousands of.$$;

I'd pick someone who is where you want to be and contact them looking for mentorship.

Talk to past students of you can.

Be prepared for a refund request...you can see this one coming from a hundred miles away.

I get hit up by newbies looking for a mentor every-so-often. I'm sure a handful of us get approached by the same people.

I've tried to help. But I don't have the time.

I'd want to create an organized program... not just do stuff willy-nilly.

I think Angie said it in this thread (sorry if I'm wrong)...

Time is money.

If a newbie copywriter wants me to help him or her make a quantum leap, it's gotta be worth my time... which means money. Lots of money.

Alberto, this is your 3rd thread. You've made some noise here on the forum.

But if you're serious about working with a mentor who's actively developing and establishing controls, $5,000-a-month is on the low end.

Think about it...

If you excel quickly; if you're as good as you think you CAN be, you'll graduate to copy cub in a hurry.

From there...

You can be charging $1,500, $2,500, $5,000+ - if you keep building on the skills you'd learn from a mentor who's awesome at teaching this stuff.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

But a word of advice...

If you're gonna do it, sack up and pay the big bucks. Otherwise, you're wasting your time and money.

This is an investment, which means, it'll be giving you a return for a LONG time to come.

And also...

What Brian said;-)

Mark

I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for or expecting Alberto.

I will give you sound advice, and there is a possibility (depending on how our conversation goes) perhaps of some kind of arrangement.

At any rate, and even though time is money, I am not so busy, nor my ego so large I can't spend a few minutes on a phone call pointing you in the right direction.

If you want to discuss things click my signature link and call the number during regular business hours 8-5 Pacific Time and we'll have a chat.

If I were a top drawer copy monster like some people here. And I were considering a trainee.

The up front cash would be a thing. (Just to weed out the flip flops)
The percentage of everything they write would be a thing. (Again to see if they're thinking serious...... long term).

But if..... if I were in a position to train someone. I would be looking for ONE thing.
A little spark that suggests they are going to be just great at what I teach them.

And in 25yrs when I'm laying in the sun sipping something chilly. I open a magazine and see a sales letter by them. And think.

Huh.....I trained that little sh1t. Taught him everything he knows.

Then take a nap with a weeny little smirk on my lips.

James

P.S - I could be wrong.... but I think THAT feeling is important to all of us isn't it? That we're important and made a difference.

Huh... So, common wisdom here is the most desperate are often the most flakey. If so, that's a shame.

I contacted my first mentor at a time when I was broke, feeling lost and trapped. His arrangement was to train me for free then take a portion of our future collaborative earnings.

$5,000 upfront? Couldn't do it. Not just to be cheap- I didn't have disposable income, and I own few enough things as is. I wasn't gonna sell my car or guitar for it.

But I was honest and upfront about my goals, and made it clear I was willing to do what whatever he said. I blew through his lessons, and within 3 months I was hanging up my shingle.

So a glimmer of hope for all the broke SOB's out there. When chips are low, 3 H's - humble, honest and hard working- can still score you some points with the right sort of mentor.

Don't screw it up though, and harden his heart to future mentees. That's an order, private.

I understand the sentiments on this thread and how this must look. I did hope that this thread would be buried and forgotten about but it just doesn't seem to go away.

In my desperation I may have bitten off more than I could chew with this thread. I came here because I wanted to learn copywriting to earn money not to pay out what little I have. The truth is I just don't have the resources to pay for a mentor or the $99 per month for Seth's site. Even $50 per hour has me worried about my finances.

I can barely cover the rent in my current job hence the desperation to find a career that I can utilise my writing skills and start making some decent money. I thought I could do a crash course and then go out there and start making the big bucks but I now know it doesn't work like that. It took me over twenty years to learn how to write a screenplay and even now I would not say I had mastered that craft and I know copywriting will be no different. Part of me asks why I think I would be a success in a field I have no experience in when I wasn't a success in the field I did have experience in so I am in a bit of a quandry as to what I should do. Continue with the scriptwriting or hit the delete button and start up something new.

So until then I'm just teaching myself reading books until I have a better idea how to do this. Apologies for wasting anybody's time and I hope you can understand my position.

Alberto, don't give up. I completely understand the finances issue myself and decided that I need to commit to at least some up front costs.

Continue looking through this forum as I have and use all the free tools you can find that are littered throughout all the threads. These guys and gals have been a great resource and VERY encouraging.

If you can take some of the advice and even make small sales, maybe you could reinvest that in some of the training that is relatively affordable. Look at the training as tools of the trade.

When I was a chef/cook, knives were tools. Most jobs require at least some basic tools you provide for yourself, so think of it as a tool of your trade. Just be wise about the tools you buy.

If I run across good free things, I'll send them your way if you are interested.

@ Alberto

hang in there kid. Not everyone here is beating their chest and being a jerk. I'll give you a hand. PM me and start by sending me ...or pointing me to something you've written.

And you other guys... pathetic. You get a kick out of big-noting yourself? I don't care if the guy calls himself Santa Claus. He wants to learn. Here's his original post... And then you assholes eat him alive. For shame. You were there once.

Definitely don't give up, Alberto.

I think most advice here came from a position of trying to help, even if they seemed really harsh.

My personal story is very similar to yours. Working in LA, got laid off from my sucky job at a big name network, always hustling and participating in 20 writers' groups trying to succeed "the right way", whatever the **** that means.

There's no right way. You'll make your own. You just need to not give up.

If you'd like to chat a little more, hit me up via PM.

Just looking back at your original post...you have oodles of experience in theatre fliers etc...then stick with your passion...what you know. You have a niche here...that's a huge head start.

You are going to have a hard time finding a real mentor if you can't pay them. There's not many people who are going to spend any substantial amount of time helping you for free or a small amount of money. Why would they?

And don't say because they should give back I guess if they have too much times on their hands which usually means there not in demand in the first place.

Keep studying the good copywriting books and start offering your services.

You need to learn to sell. That'll solve a lot of your problems.

I'm talking in all aspects. In life. Selling is life. Persuasion.

If you don't get good at selling, you won't get what you want.

If you can learn to sell effectively and become a master at it, you would be able to get yourself a mentor.

If you can learn to sell effectively and become a master at it, you will be able to come up with the money to attend training courses.

The possibilities are endless. But you've got to also be creative. Learning to Sell + Being Creative = results.

Having money would help your case in this example, it gives power. But not always the type of power that you NEED. I'm talking about the "good stuff." Long term.

The type of power that you NEED and want, is the power to sell, persuade, selling yourself, selling people. Anyone with money can "buy" themselves a mentor. What happens when you don't have money? You come on a thread and use the complete wrong approach to try and get a mentor. And SINCE you don't know how to sell, no one ain't gonna help you. Now you're screwed.

Learn to sell my friend. If you knew, you would have came on here and sold people to mentor you.

Learn to think big; expand your mind, and most importantly, take massive action. Study people, as in not only "successful people", but I mean people as in human behavior, psychology, persuasion. All that good stuff.

I think that's great that you have experience in writing. You have the technical skill.
But now you need to look at the big picture and learn the other side of things.
Reminds me of people work their asses off in college to get one degree. They graduate with their bachelor's, get a great job, and that's it. They're narrow-minded, stuck in one field. They don't have the ability to think outside the box, open their minds, and look at the big picture. They're programmed, brainwashed into a limited way of thinking. They see no other way but to work for a corporation - They just want to be told exactly what to do and do it. They know no other way. Throw them on the street to fend for themselves, and they won't know jack shit what to do. That's because, despite spending 10 years learning to be a surgeon, that doesn't mean shit if they don't know how to SELL.


Learn to sell. That's the root of your problems. You seem like a great writer. I'm not sure where your mind is, but if I was in your shoes, I would be SELLING SELLING SELLING my writing skill, and making some money from it, then I would invest that money into training/books. Once you're "there", trust me, you will get your mentors. Because you will then know how to align with them, and you know the game.

Forgive me if I'm kind of all over the place, I tend to get lost in thought and rant away sometimes. But I hope you get something from this.

Tough crowd, huh?

Sure, Alberto may have gone about it the "wrong" way, but that doesn't mean there weren't nicer ways of telling him so.

As a fellow writer, it is embarrassing to see the elitist mentality of some writers on this site. It gives the rest of us a bad name and is rather depressing.

Yes, you all worked long and hard to earn your credentials and certainly deserve the recognition. No one is debating that.

But instead of doing the holier-than-thou thing, why not try helping another human being who is in the same position you undoubtedly were when you first started out?

You know, giving him some legitimate advice instead of chastising him for nothing short of bowing down and worshiping you in his post?

A little humility goes a long, long way.

Welcome to the board, jen. Great discussions, but copywriters will be copywriters...

Being mentored is not about being made to FEEL good... it's about being made to BE good.

Some of the precious flowers posting in this thread wouldn't last a DAY with the people I've had the good fortune to learn from and study under in music and business.

And even though I'm considered by many to be an expert at what I do, I STILL know my role when it comes to learning from those higher up the food chain.

They kick my ass relentlessly and thoroughly... and I'm grateful for those opportunities to get thrashed so effectively. I always learn something from it - often something powerful that pushes me irreversibly forward on my own personal scale of potential.

The same thing happens with critiques here...

An experienced hand at the wheel tries to help a noob avoid hitting the wall with a rust-bucket of a promotion and, like clockwork, a chorus of "you guys are so mean!" posts devolve the conversation down to a Stuart Smalley skit.

Grow up, people.

Money's on the line... yours, your client's and the customer's.

The marketplace is far more cruel and unforgiving than any forum poster could ever be.

I'm out...

Brian

If you can't handle some blunt feedback on a forum, you can't handle copywriting or this industry - in my rather less experienced opinion.

I scored a contract / internship type deal at an ad agency recently, and I have to tell you, if you can't take pressure or quickly internalize the lessons behind blunt feedback, you've got no chance. I'm 3 days in, and already it's expected that I figure out how to be helpful, how to prioritize several tasks, how to delegate, set up my office, etc.

And I love it. I really, truly love it. I'm an obsessive weirdo who's found a place where my hyperactive and overly decisive qualities are at home.

Is it for everyone? F no. I'm not saying I'm better or any such nonsense, I just feel I'm right for it. I'm working on work stuff right now actually, at home, without any further prompting, because it's fun for me to nail it.

I've also signed up to Seth's course and I'm working my way through that material, because I can't get enough. I'm too busy consuming information to give a crap what's happening on a forum.

This post isn't me, me ,me. What I'm saying is, if you're reading this and you can't understand where I'm coming from or you don't like what I'm saying, then maybe the advertising / marketing industry and copy isn't for you.

Hell, it might not be for me either. I'm too new to TRULY know, but I know that being unable or unwilling to go the extra mile and CRUSH expectations without any prompting isn't a good start.

Nuh. You guys miss the point. As Kreativ said early - In fact... here's his first post - The rest of his posts were downright silly - but it was in response to what you lot were serving up. I'm all for "tough love" - as you know - go read some of my posts. I even told one guy to "go kill yourself" - but then went on to give him some invaluable advice - and he thanked me for it.

It's obvious he knows nothing about copy. It's obvious his writing so far won't help him much. And it's obvious he can't afford to pay even $99 a month. And why should he? Thats not the spirit of true mentorship.

Yes, you are a bunch of nasties. I wish the guy well and hope he rubs your faces in some stunning copy some time soon.

I don't have a dog in this fight...

But all I know Mal.... is this forum is WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY
the f**k better with you here.

And I know any seasoned writer on this forum would agree...

Interesting thread.

There is a powerful strain of survivorship bias on the forum, with regard to the "right way" a person is allowed to get started and get good. People who sucked dirt on the way up seem to think "who is this little punk, who thinks he can climb a ladder into the treehouse, instead of falling 25 times climbing by hand?"

Couple that with the folks affirming their own membership and you have a recipe for a nice healthy pile-on.

There is also an etiquette to addressing the tribe, much like addressing any royalty. I don't blame Alberto for not knowing it.

Anyway, the lessons for future "unworthy worms":

1.) Prove it. If a mentor is going to be generous with his time, it is your job to show him he's not wasting it. If you can't convince him with words, you will have to put money down to show you have skin in the game.

2.) Mind your language. Established copywriters see themselves as fire-breathing dragons, and you as a hairy little hobbit snack. "You are great, I am not, and I will do anything it takes to earn your favor". You can't echo this sentiment enough times, enough ways. Deviate from this script, and they'll be picking their fangs with your bones.

hey. the last thing i want is for you guys to fight amongst yourselves.

@promotionalguy - i answered your question the day you posted it but removed it as i was worried it was too confrontational and because i wasn't really in a position to pay you so didnt want to waste your time. my answer was: there was no right answer as the question was designed to qualify me.

yes i'm a pussy and a coward and i'm a lazy waste of space. but to be frank i heard a lot worse from my mother who used to tell me i was worthless and would amount to nothing so no surprise there hey?


can we drop it now? i'm trying to read and my mentor, Aristotle, has some very interesting things to say in the original book on copywriting - Rhetoric.