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Email marketing before and now..

by Svetoslav Stoyanchev
22 replies
Hi guys. Email expert here.
As you already probably know GDPR placed new rules in email marketing.
I've noticed years ago that most of you are 'cold marketers' using scraped email lists or paid ones.
If our servers were graylisted and blocked for someone doing this at x1 rate now this is done probably x4 rate.
It is interesting that every marketer said that they were sending to real subscribers which is fat lie to just be able to find way for their emails. Well actually if you were honest of how you collected them were there any consent etc etc maybe there would be a way to do it.
I remember some success with few buddies from here that were sending the emails really slow which was the real deal before new GDPR rules came.
GDPR has positive sight. People now will have empty mailboxes,which in turn will make them subscribe to YOUR newsletter much easier! Don't waste time and place catchy newsletter subscription box mentioning the rate you're going to send newsletters.. Example would be "Get our weekly special offers to your email." Once a week is not that bad.If you have over 40% open rates that means they starve for more. Then you have to find a way to increase the offers specially to the openers!

Good luck everybody! This post is intended to open discussion of new email strategies and sharing experience + feedbacks.
#email #email strategies #experience #marketing #mass mailing
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  • Profile picture of the author tortorfires
    Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev

    GDPR has positive sight. People now will have empty mailboxes,which in turn will make them subscribe to YOUR newsletter much easier! Don't waste time and place catchy newsletter subscription box mentioning the rate you're going to send newsletters.
    Hrmmm.. great insight! I didn't even think about that. Do you have any recommendations for an email funnel? Say I captured emails via search to this opt in (squeeze) landing page. Now that I have their emails I've automated a Thank You (kind of) for signing up. Do you just keep sending them new articles and random finds every week? Or is there an actual strategy?
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  • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
    Or is there an actual strategy?
    There should be always strategy. This strategy depends mostly from your niche. For example I hold email service and the email marketing strategy is very short. Our users are usually more advanced and know what is SMTP and probably know how to use it. Those who look for MailChimp have heard from somebody that this is "the way" to reach their subscribers easily. A lot of them are beginners. Beginners need information and they're interested all the time. So MailChimp must be more worried than us. Advanced users care only for important and innovative things which usually happen rarely. We even reach our customers monthly!
    To summarize the above - you have to think about all the factors. Are your users beginners or advanced, how much they stay reading your website (meaning they're curious),do they come referred from another website with the same niche etc. in order to build a score which will tell the intensity needed for reaching your subscribers.
    Again to mention that the Open Rate is the main reflection that you should monitor. If you have less than 15% you're sending too much or subscribers need different content from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
    GDPR is only relative to EU data and nothing about it affects deliverability / open rates.

    If you are scraping data, only scrape business addresses (non EU) for B2B and verify / clean.

    If you buy data then don't buy EU data.

    If you collect 1st person opt-ins then be GDPR compliant if EU..
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    • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
      Originally Posted by DIABL0 View Post

      GDPR is only relative to EU data and nothing about it affects deliverability / open rates.

      If you are scraping data, only scrape business addresses (non EU) for B2B and verify / clean.

      If you buy data then don't buy EU data.

      If you collect 1st person opt-ins then be GDPR compliant if EU..
      Absolutely not true. Although GDPR is EU only many companies outside EU follow these set of rules simply because in the internet you cannot be always sure for the origin.
      For example as you tell you can try to scrape non-EU business address but there will be decent amount of EU addresses inside because an IP doesn't always resolves to the origin country.
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      • Profile picture of the author DIABL0
        Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev View Post

        Absolutely not true. Although GDPR is EU only many companies outside EU follow these set of rules simply because in the internet you cannot be always sure for the origin.
        For example as you tell you can try to scrape non-EU business address but there will be decent amount of EU addresses inside because an IP doesn't always resolves to the origin country.
        I'm not doing anything with GDPR for non EU data.

        I've never seen an IP not resolve the correct country. Unless maybe there is a problem with the IP database doing the resolving Which I have not seen happen, but theoretically possible.

        I don't scrape data.

        CDPR is has nothing to do with deliverability, open rates, dlacklisting, etc...
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        • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
          Originally Posted by DIABL0 View Post

          I've never seen an IP not resolve the correct country.
          Here's why this is possible
          Through GeoLocation, we can map IP addresses to the country, region, city, latitude/longitude, ISP, etc. All of this information is collected and stored in different database from different registrars. Some registrars may be very accurate in providing information about their IP, though some may enter not updated or incorrect data.

          Rule of thumb: "the more aggregated and generic data you ask for the more precise will be the geo-localization". Country, than region and city are much more precise (normally 90 to 95%) compared to the exact location of the user such as zip code/street address/building number etc. This higher precision is because of the IP address allocation and registration for each particular country (It varies from country to country) and because it's based in most of the cases on provider position rather than user or company position.

          So in short:

          Locating the country/region has got the highest precision (95-99%)
          Locating the city could be a bit less accurate
          Identifying the exact user location such as Zip code/building number is much less accurate

          The main reasons for this variation in result is because:

          IP is traced from Provider or organization registration
          Use of proxies by the user hides the exact location
          Not updated data in the registrar IP database (whois information)
          Not to mention that now scraping by whois is almost impossible. Every register pretty much placed FREE WHOIS Guard because of GDPR.
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  • Profile picture of the author ronnierokk
    Look dudes...

    Being GDPR compliant is simple.

    If any EU countries are coming to your website then you should have the new GDPR policy in your Privacy Policy and Terms And Service links that display those new rules.

    I would also have a cookies button for them to click on the bottom or top of your page that accepts cookies that represent the new GDPR.

    It's best to be covered at all angles. Because if you are buying solo ads even if you order only US some might slip through the cracks.

    Also make sure you have a disclaimer at the bottom of your emails if you are doing affiliate marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
      Originally Posted by ronnierokk View Post

      Look dudes...

      Being GDPR compliant is simple.

      If any EU countries are coming to your website then you should have the new GDPR policy in your Privacy Policy and Terms And Service links that display those new rules.

      I would also have a cookies button for them to click on the bottom or top of your page that accepts cookies that represent the new GDPR.

      It's best to be covered at all angles. Because if you are buying solo ads even if you order only US some might slip through the cracks.

      Also make sure you have a disclaimer at the bottom of your emails if you are doing affiliate marketing.
      Well said..GDPR has like infinitive amount of rules. That is why everybody are afraid. I also believe that those people who invented that rule just wanted fairness in the marketing branch. So being as fair as possible makes comply of 99% GDPR.. And we all pretty much know what is fair against our customers.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev View Post

        That is why everybody are afraid.
        Everyone isn't afraid.

        What everyone should do is block EU traffic, let them enjoy their own intranet.
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        • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Everyone isn't afraid.

          What everyone should do is block EU traffic, let them enjoy their own intranet.
          Well that is solution,but don't you think it is anti-democratic ?
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev View Post

            Well that is solution,but don't you think it is anti-democratic ?
            It really is a solution and don't you think EU wants to be a modern day Hitler and rule the world outside their borders?
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            • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              It really is a solution and don't you think EU wants to be a modern day Hitler and rule the world outside their borders?
              Not sure exactly what you want to say when US also has it's own GDPR alike rules (USA - CAN-SPAM Act of 2003) that EU or other members have to follow

              What are the penalties for violating the CAN-SPAM Act?
              A. Each separate email in violation of the law is subject to penalties of up to $41,484, and more than one person may be held responsible for violations. For example, both the company whose product is promoted in the message and the company that originated the message may be legally responsible. Email that makes misleading claims about products or services also may be subject to laws outlawing deceptive advertising, like Section 5 of the FTC Act. The CAN-SPAM Act has certain aggravated violations that may give rise to additional fines. The law provides for criminal penalties - including imprisonment - for:

              accessing someone else's computer to send spam without permission,
              using false information to register for multiple email accounts or domain names,
              relaying or retransmitting multiple spam messages through a computer to mislead others about the origin of the message,
              harvesting email addresses or generating them through a dictionary attack (the practice of sending email to addresses made up of random letters and numbers in the hope of reaching valid ones), and
              taking advantage of open relays or open proxies without permission.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev View Post

                Not sure exactly what you want to say when US also has it's own GDPR alike rules (USA - CAN-SPAM Act of 2003) that EU or other members have to follow

                The difference is EU thinks everyone outside of EU is targeting EU.

                ...and then the EU meme law.

                #sigh

                The better focus in internal problems like Brexit.
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              • Profile picture of the author NetMan
                Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev View Post

                Not sure exactly what you want to say when US also has it's own GDPR alike rules (USA - CAN-SPAM Act of 2003) that EU or other members have to follow
                No, likely USA CAN-SPAM cannot rule other countries and force them to adopt this law. It's totally under voluntary to adopt can-spam if you are not a US citizen, and the same goes for GDPR if you are not a EU citizen.

                Everything, is a matter of CONSENT.

                Personally, I believe it won't be long that this kind of "law" will spread like wildfire to everywhere sooner than one might think. So, this is something that really cannot be ignored imho, because after all this is about protection of our personal data.
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                • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
                  Originally Posted by NetMan View Post

                  No, likely USA CAN-SPAM cannot rule other countries and force them to adopt this law. It's totally under voluntary to adopt can-spam if you are not a US citizen, and the same goes for GDPR if you are not a EU citizen.

                  Everything, is a matter of CONSENT.

                  Personally, I believe it won't be long that this kind of "law" will spread like wildfire to everywhere sooner than one might think. So, this is something that really cannot be ignored imho, because after all this is about protection of our personal data.
                  You have strange views. Not following the USA CAN-SPAM rule applies to all countries and we do not talk about any adaptations here. Law is made to be followed it is not recommendation. If I throw a bomb from Canada and hit US I will be guilty by the US laws.
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                  • Profile picture of the author NetMan
                    Originally Posted by Svetoslav Stoyanchev View Post

                    You have strange views. ...
                    What is strange views lol

                    I don't get the rest of your reply, but like I said, if EU cannot push GDPR law in the throat of the rest of the world, it's the same for USA CAN-SPAM law and that is why there's still more SPAM than ever, because they send the crap from servers OUTSIDE of the USA.

                    Simple.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Svetoslav Stoyanchev
                      Originally Posted by NetMan View Post

                      What is strange views lol
                      View is synonym to perspective -> Strange perspectives
                      I didn't say 'viewpoint' either,because it has point but you don't, so.. that is why it's - strange view

                      About your last comment. I don't want to even imagine in world wide GDPR

                      Yes people send their crap/spam from servers outside but that still doesn't mean they don't break the rules,cause the server is remote to US or EU whatever. They're just not that easy to track.

                      On April 1, 2006, Mounir Balarbi, of Tangier, Morocco, was the first person outside the United States to have an arrest warrant validated under the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Mounir's trial was held in absentia, and he was sentenced in a closed session.

                      Well this one I guess believed the same as you lol
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                      • Profile picture of the author NetMan
                        Hey I guess you can imagine that I know the definition of "view" fcs loll this is not what I asked anyway so why bother...

                        I wanted to know WHAT VIEWS you find strange in what I sad that wholly quoted. And, well, I still do not understand on what you are arguing actually. I believe we're talking about two different things. Anyway, I'm sure we'll survive.

                        Btw, your Mounir story from wikipedia says "an arrest warrant was validated" (very likely by a USA judge), but that does not mean it's been enforced nor even executed. The wiki story you copy and pasted here says nor more... For sure, if it was a legitimate ARREST WARRANT then it was certainly in regards to some CRIMINAL ACTIONS in regards to the can-spam law of 2003 (which includes the sending of "Non-Solicited Pornography"). Sending UCE is not criminal, only it depends on WHAT you send to just cross the line...

                        And, btw, the way jurisdiction works has nothing to do with beliefs, it's just FACTS. Take care.

                        Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    GDPR will be cleaning some spamming house for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProducerK
    Everyone was afraid that email was going to end when Can Spam Act of 2003 came into law in the USA.
    Everything turned out fine.....
    Everyone was afraid when the CASL laws came into Canada a few years ago.... With penalities starting at 1 Million for personal penalty and 10 million per corporate use, for EVERY violation. Only a handful of people have ever been prosecuted and everything is still fine.
    The same thing is happening with GDPR, everyone is panicking over the news laws, when in reality, as long as you take reasonable measures to be compliant, you will be fine. The outlay of money that the government must spend to bring these cases to court and prosecute can easily run into the millions of dollars, they are going to target very specific people, but if history can tell us anything, everything will still continue to run and be fine, and GDPR will just be something similar to what Canadians and Americans deal with and have dealt with for a long time now.
    Will there be a little bit of collateral damage and some people will fall, yes of course, thats how our world works.
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  • Profile picture of the author NetMan
    @ProducerK, almost word for word what I think and have experienced as well.

    Btw, it has to happen and Canada has already started consultancy with experts to study GDPR and eventually implement something similar. Like I said, I believe it might spread all around, and I haven't even called them to let them know lol... (it's a matter of big cash we the majority have no idea of how huge this is, so it will spread, maybe not the exact same but something like),
    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author ProducerK
    One other thing I will throw into the mix, the EU has some of the strictest consumer protection laws in the world, and has a tendency to overstep in terms of regulation.
    You will never see similar laws come into Canada or the USA, Western Society is far too capitalist to ever allow that to happen.
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