Which Is Better for Launching a WSO: JVZoo or Warrior Plus. I say it's...

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Which Is Better for Launching a WSO: JVZoo or Warrior Plus. I say it's...

The one that just PAID FOR MY WSO LISTING FEE!

Yup, I just won a contest where they pay the listing fee ($40) for one WSO per day.

Even if they had not, the fact:
-I don't have to PAY EXTRA for an OTO to be added
-and their site is USER FRIENDLY
-and they have a sales letter page
-THE BEST AFFILIATE TRACKING
-and a bunch of other stuff

Has made me choose JVZOO over WarriorPlus/WSOPRO


Warrior Plus has had a monopoly for a long time. Will they update to a more Web 3.0 standard or just hold onto their existing relationships to stay on top? The top sellers have a good relationship with WSOPRO and they clearly have more affiliates.

JVZOO is brand new and will have some growing pains. But to their advantage NEW WARRIORS with no affinity in either direction join the WF every day - and apples to apples, IMO JVZOO takes the cake...

Who do you think will dominate and why?
#jvzoo #launching #warrior #wso
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Both leave some to be desired.

    I will hold my recommendations until I see one that is more worthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    I say JVZoo.

    For the reasons you said plus:

    Why should affiliates have to pay to promote something? That is ridiculous.

    Plus commissions are truly shared - not one to vendor and one to affiliate. A true instant payment split.

    Instant split commissions - but if you refund in the control panel the money is instantly taken from both affiliate and vendor. No mucking about having to ask the affiliate to please refund the money.

    Nice professional buttons.

    No entry fee. Pay as you go. A nice small transaction fee.

    Probably more but I'll stop there as those are my favorites. WSO Pro needs to do some catch up.
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    • Profile picture of the author taskemann
      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      Why should affiliates have to pay to promote something? That is ridiculous.
      To keep the quality higher of course.

      If someone has to pay a little fee each month to the network, retailer or whatever it is, the quality of the affiliates that request to promote the offers will be higher. Or in other words, the affiliates are more serious.
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    TPW - what is the alternative???

    TO NOT use SOMETHING seems unwise. What is lacking in your opinion

    TIM

    Oh yeah - the REFUNDS Module are a huge thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

      TPW - what is the alternative???

      TO NOT use SOMETHING seems unwise. What is lacking in your opinion

      TIM


      Tim: I am not completely happy with Warrior Plus, but I am sticking with it for now.

      JV Zoo looks interesting, but it also looks to me like a ghost town. Part of the advantage of these systems is access to the network of affiliates. And I just don't see affiliates rushing to JV Zoo or affiliate performance pushing products listed there into the stratosphere -- yet.

      So for now, I would say use Warrior Plus.

      I'd like to either see JV Zoo improve itself or another unknown future player bring down the house, so that I will have another provider to choose from.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    I'm sticking with WSO Pro for the time being for one reason:

    It lets me block refunders from purchasing my products.

    If JVzoo had the ability to do this, allowed me to import my existing black list and improved their customer support, I might consider moving.

    WSO Pro customer support has always been awesome, and they've always fully answered my questions.

    For the moment, myself - and I imagine many other Warriors, have been building black lists with WSO Pro to keep our refund rates low.

    I doubt many people serious about refund rates will be willing to give that up. I won't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
      Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post

      I'm sticking with WSO Pro for the time being for one reason:

      It lets me block refunders from purchasing my products.

      If JVzoo had the ability to do this, allowed me to import my existing black list and improved their customer support, I might consider moving.

      For the moment, myself - and I imagine many other Warriors, have been building black lists with WSO Pro to keep our refund rates low.

      I doubt many people serious about refund rates will be willing to give that up. I won't.
      The JVZoo guys will check this thread and you watch - it will appear. Are you listening Brian et all?
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
        Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

        The JVZoo guys will check this thread and you watch - it will appear. Are you listening Brian et all?
        I hope it does, the ability to import our black list is an essential feature.

        All of my students use WSO Pro, suggesting a second option would be beneficial to them.
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        • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
          Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post

          I hope it does, the ability to import our black list is an essential feature.
          Could you explain why you consider it an essential feature?

          I see why some see it that way, no doubt. But here's my own view on it.

          If someone purchases a product (or two) of mine, and then immediately requests a refund, that does not necessarily mean they will purchase another product and refund again. Yes, the chances of that happening are increased, but it's not a given.

          Now, let's say it DOES happen, they do purchase again and refund...I haven't lost anything out of pocket from this happening.

          Alternatively, let's say they purchase again and do NOT refund. If I had blacklisted them, I would have LOST REVENUE by doing so.

          I've sold tens of thousands of products, thousands of customers...and I just don't see the true need for a blacklist.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post

            I hope it does, the ability to import our black list is an essential feature.

            All of my students use WSO Pro, suggesting a second option would be beneficial to them.
            Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

            Could you explain why you consider it an essential feature?

            I see why some see it that way, no doubt. But here's my own view on it.

            If someone purchases a product (or two) of mine, and then immediately requests a refund, that does not necessarily mean they will purchase another product and refund again. Yes, the chances of that happening are increased, but it's not a given.

            Now, let's say it DOES happen, they do purchase again and refund...I haven't lost anything out of pocket from this happening.

            Alternatively, let's say they purchase again and do NOT refund. If I had blacklisted them, I would have LOST REVENUE by doing so.

            I've sold tens of thousands of products, thousands of customers...and I just don't see the true need for a blacklist.

            It is essential because some people have proven time and again that they are using the Money Back Guarantee to get products for free, then post them to the BH download sites.

            Blacklisting these people is essential to reduce piracy of our products.
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            • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              It is essential because some people have proven time and again that they are using the Money Back Guarantee to get products for free, then post them to the BH download sites.

              Blacklisting these people is essential to reduce piracy of our products.
              Okay, I see. AND, I see that this could be a feature many would want.

              That doesn't change my belief though, that people who would download for free from a BH site, would most likely never purchase your product anyway...thus it's really not costing you any money...no lost revenue.
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              • Profile picture of the author tpw
                Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

                Okay, I see. AND, I see that this could be a feature many would want.

                That doesn't change my belief though, that people who would download for free from a BH site, would most likely never purchase your product anyway...thus it's really not costing you any money...no lost revenue.

                Most people are inherently honest, so I don't worry about "buyers" running to the BH sites to get my stuff.

                What I am concerned about is that when someone refunds my products, I have to pay a penalty fee to PayPal for that refund, and I have to pay Amazon for the people downloading my products for free.

                Our Amazon bill last month was $310, and most of that was pirated videos being downloaded for free.

                The BH'ers are killing our bottom line a few pennies at a time, and en masse, they are doing some serious damage.

                If I can stop some of the people pirating my products from advertising the pirated download information, then that will bring a substantial reduction to my financial losses in this process.

                The BH'ers are inflicting some serious costs on us, from which we are not being reimbursed by real sales.

                As a result, YES absolutely, I do consider blacklisting the bad guys to be an absolute necessity in any selling platform.
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            • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              It is essential because some people have proven time and again that they are using the Money Back Guarantee to get products for free, then post them to the BH download sites.

              Blacklisting these people is essential to reduce piracy of our products.
              I agree with LegitIncomes..... You cannot assume they will always refund.........

              As for those buying just to put the product on BH forums, I would slow them down by "turning off" their license.... When they try to access it, it will not open....

              All the Best,

              Rich
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            • Profile picture of the author Joey Babbs
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              Blacklisting these people is essential to reduce piracy of our products.
              I agree this is important but something that is more important in my opinion is that affiliates will choose products to promote that have low refund rates...therefore if you have a lot of repeat refunders on your new launch - then affiliates might think it is product related but really its the refunders ruining your stats....
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by Mick Meaney View Post


        If JVzoo had the ability to do this, allowed me to import my existing black list and improved their customer support...
        Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

        The JVZoo guys will check this thread and you watch - it will appear. Are you listening Brian et all?
        Yes! And I am happy to say that we just released a very sophisticated blacklist system!

        The blacklist system works on three levels.

        1. There is the individual vendor level, which allows you to add email addresses of those you want blacklisted.

        2. There is the peer level, which allows you to leverage all other vender's blacklist within the JVZoo system. You simply choose the blacklist level that best matches your desired to block serial refunders from your purchases. Example: If you put in a 3 then if anyone tries to purchase your products that has been blacklisted by 3 or more other JVZoo Vendors then they will not be allowed to get to your product either. If you use 5, then 5 other vendors will have to blacklist before you also exclude them from yours.

        3. The third level is site level, which is reserved for management. Our system is constantly looking for flags that identify serial refunders. Once identified, we will blacklist those people from purchasing anywhere on the site.

        Thanks for all the input!

        EDIT: Here is a video that Zim posted about it earlier...


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  • Profile picture of the author officer_iron
    I've never tried JVZoo but I'm interested to give it a shot. I definitely would prefer the instant split commissions that JVZoo offers.
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    Legit I am close to your perspective on refunds.

    One of the times when I owned a web and graphic design firm in the "real world" back in 1997 I was one of the first (and was the only) one in the country that offered a MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. I put systems in place to protect us, but Money Back Guarantees have ALWAYS been a part of ANY business I do.

    Believe it or not, few people use it if you put out quality (and normally my pricing is a barrier to entry for most scammers....they never seem to have a lot of money..hmmm)

    But I have had people get refunds on my IM products and then come back and keep a later product.

    Out of 1000s of online purchases of an e-product or service, i can count on one hand the number of times I have personally requested a refund. It didn't stop me from doing business with them again, it usually was because it was not as described.

    Here is what I WOULD LIKE TO SEE:

    A pooled blacklist.

    One in which each vendor can add a person to a POOLED blacklist.

    This would be easy with JVZoos current system, and prevent someone from falsely adding someone.

    This name then goes into a pooled database.

    After that, each vendor can select a number of "infractions" of previous refunds to flag as someone to block a purchase.

    So ONE or TWO or maybe even 5 are not enough to block purchase...HOWEVER with a pooled blacklist - the real scammers (habitual refunders) would be flagged (without revealing their identity or violating privacy) and blocked automatically. This would then leave the legitimate refunders able to do business.

    Since it is API based into paypal, it would have to do deep checks because a real scammer is simply going to use a different paypal email (or maybe even account) if you have them blacklisted.

    my 2¢
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    • Profile picture of the author Soren
      Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

      Here is what I WOULD LIKE TO SEE:

      A pooled blacklist.

      One in which each vendor can add a person to a POOLED blacklist.

      This would be easy with JVZoos current system, and prevent someone from falsely adding someone.

      This name then goes into a pooled database.

      After that, each vendor can select a number of "infractions" of previous refunds to flag as someone to block a purchase.

      So ONE or TWO or maybe even 5 are not enough to block purchase...HOWEVER with a pooled blacklist - the real scammers (habitual refunders) would be flagged (without revealing their identity or violating privacy) and blocked automatically. This would then leave the legitimate refunders able to do business.

      Since it is API based into paypal, it would have to do deep checks because a real scammer is simply going to use a different paypal email (or maybe even account) if you have them blacklisted.

      my 2¢
      What a GREAT idea!!!... and actually it got me thinking a second time, before posting my upcoming WSO... I didn't think about "freeloaders" since I usually don't have a problem with refunds because I always overdeliver, and because I haven't targetted the IM market before. Of course they're different, and I can now see why so many WSO owners, gets penalized by PayPal..

      Just asking... but if anyone with a "blacklist" would share it with me, I'd really appreciate it. Perhaps I could come up with a script redirecting those ip's to a different website.. I'd certainly try, if someone would provide me with a list.

      Oh and regarding this topic, I think JVZoo only seems to lack the pooled blacklist, and perhaps a few more affiliates (which is only natural in the beginning of any network) - other than that, it looks pretty tough to beat imo, even if there're 3 more competitors going live in the near future.
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    real customers do not even know Black Hat sites exist...

    people who are cheats are the only one's that go anyway and are never customers - you don't want them as customers anyway

    let them steal it, sell it, do whatever...they are stuck in the underground black market and NEVER get away with trying to do business in the real world.
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

    I agree with LegitIncomes..... You cannot assume they will always refund.........

    As for those buying just to put the product on BH forums, I would slow them down by "turning off" their license.... When they try to access it, it will not open....

    All the Best,

    Rich
    lol at rich - nice segway to your service
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    Legit I just clicked your banner.

    Do you consider your service a competitor to jvzoo and wsopro?

    i never heard of it, which makes me wonder how much competition is actually out there, and why we don't have a thread that compares everyone
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

      Legit I just clicked your banner.

      Do you consider your service a competitor to jvzoo and wsopro?

      i never heard of it, which makes me wonder how much competition is actually out there, and why we don't have a thread that compares everyone
      Well . . . since you brought it up I suppose it's okay to respond. Yes I do.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

      Legit I just clicked your banner.

      Do you consider your service a competitor to jvzoo and wsopro?

      i never heard of it, which makes me wonder how much competition is actually out there, and why we don't have a thread that compares everyone

      I know of at least 3 more competitors in this market under development.
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      • Profile picture of the author jphilips
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        I know of at least 3 more competitors in this market under development.
        Please share if you can. Competition is healthy in this business. It helps with innovation and allows fresh approaches. I have nothing against established companies and there is much to be said for experience but I think we should all support GOOD competition because it does tend to keep everything a bit more even keeled and honest.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Guys,

    This makes me wonder..... Why even deal with Paypal? Getting your own merchant account costs around $40 per month... You still pay transactions fees....

    But, there are big benefits.... First, you are protected by Federal banking regulations..... No six month freezes on your PayPal account...... Second, when I spoke with Wells Fargo, they said their is no charge for refunds or chargebacks if you just refund them....... If you contest it, it is $25 per refund/chargebacks for their research and resolution......

    I am seriously considering switching before my launch in a few weeks...

    All the Best,

    Rich
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

      Guys,

      This makes me wonder..... Why even deal with Paypal? Getting your own merchant account costs around $40 per month... You still pay transactions fees....

      But, there are big benefits.... First, you are protected by Federal banking regulations..... No six month freezes on your PayPal account...... Second, when I spoke with Wells Fargo, they said their is no charge for refunds or chargebacks if you just refund them....... If you contest it, it is $25 per refund/chargebacks for their research and resolution......

      I am seriously considering switching before my launch in a few weeks...

      All the Best,

      Rich
      Because just about everyone uses Paypal.

      And for customers, it's a lot easier to just enter a simple email and password to pay, than it is for them to go get their wallet, type in all of their CC info, etc...

      Plus, many people treat Paypal like a bank account (even though it's not). I use my Paypal debit card all the time...almost every day (grocery store, gas, etc...).
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

        Because just about everyone uses Paypal.

        And for customers, it's a lot easier to just enter a simple email and password to pay, than it is for them to go get their wallet, type in all of their CC info, etc...

        Plus, many people treat Paypal like a bank account (even though it's not). I use my Paypal debit card all the time...almost every day (grocery store, gas, etc...).
        LegitIncomes,

        PayPal seems to be okay for "side money"... But hearing about people have their account locked for six months makes me wonder.... Do I trust this unregulated company with my financial future?

        I would not want to be "that guy" who has a legitimate business.... With significant cash in his PayPal account.... Yet, he cannot pay his bills because his PayPal account is frozen....

        I know this is a rarity... But, it still does happen....

        All the Best,

        Rich
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          LegitIncomes,

          PayPal seems to be okay for "side money"... But hearing about people have their account locked for six months makes me wonder.... Do I trust this unregulated company with my financial future?

          I would not want to be "that guy" who has a legitimate business.... With significant cash in his PayPal account.... Yet, he cannot pay his bills because his PayPal account is frozen....

          I know this is a rarity... But, it still does happen....

          All the Best,

          Rich

          Most of the people getting locked down for 180-days by PayPal are dancing on the dark-side.

          When they come to the forum to bitch about it, they are only telling the side of the story that makes them look like victims, rather than to admit their fault in the outcome.

          Hint: Selling access to a future webinar is again PayPal's TOS. But if you sell a report and give access to the webinar as a bonus, then you are in good shape.

          Others are refusing to send proof of identification to PayPal, then getting locked out until they send proof of ID. You only hear how they were shut down, not their role in the shut down.

          Last summer, my partner and I interviewed dozens of people who had been shut down by PayPal, and having seen the back-story of all of those high-profile shut-downs, I am confident in saying that the people who operate above-board have little to worry about.
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        • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          LegitIncomes,

          PayPal seems to be okay for "side money"... But hearing about people have their account locked for six months makes me wonder.... Do I trust this unregulated company with my financial future?

          I would not want to be "that guy" who has a legitimate business.... With significant cash in his PayPal account.... Yet, he cannot pay his bills because his PayPal account is frozen....

          I know this is a rarity... But, it still does happen....

          All the Best,

          Rich
          That's true...but merchant accounts can be frozen too (maybe not as often??).

          I had my Paypal account frozen once...it FREAKED ME OUT.

          However, I immediately called them up, and they just wanted to make sure it was me using my debit card, and not someone else...I cleared that up, and they immediately removed the freeze on my account.
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          • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
            Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

            That's true...but merchant accounts can be frozen too (maybe not as often??).

            I had my Paypal account frozen once...it FREAKED ME OUT.

            However, I immediately called them up, and they just wanted to make sure it was me using my debit card, and not someone else...I cleared that up, and they immediately removed the freeze on my account.
            LegitIncomes,

            The way Wells Fargo explained it... Your merchant account could be "frozen".... So, you could not sell... BUT, your business bank account, where the money is deposited each day, CANNOT be touched..... That is a huge difference.....

            All the Best,

            Rich
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        • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Guys,

          This makes me wonder..... Why even deal with Paypal?

          Rich

          rich there is a CHARGEBACK fee if the customer charges back -- whether you contest it or not. What happens is if they ask for a refund and you give it, they wont charge you then and you are refunded MOST of your fees.

          If you have an AVS fee or per transaction fee...those fees are still owed. (as a transaction and address verification took place)

          The discount rate (the percentage taken from visa/mc known as interchange, plus the ISO merchant and gateway cut) is refunded to you



          Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

          Because just about everyone uses Paypal.

          .
          That is NOT true...in fact times when I use 1shopping cart and offer both cc and paypal I ALWAYS get FAR MORE people using credit card directly than paypal.

          Also CC companies have underwriting and risk departments..they will withold portion of your proceeds or even lock an account

          Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

          Okay so same thing, which is better, can you not use both, I am sure both sites have alot of different members.

          Would it not be wise to incorporate both into one wso at the same time. Same launch and everything, You just have to check one email to answer questions and support.
          THAT is actually a good idea!...giving two diff payment buttons, however, it needs to be on something you have proven or at least already have affiliates for, since adding 5 or 6 buttons is gonna cost on each setup and OTO
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

      Guys,

      This makes me wonder..... Why even deal with Paypal? Getting your own merchant account costs around $40 per month... You still pay transactions fees....

      But, there are big benefits.... First, you are protected by Federal banking regulations..... No six month freezes on your PayPal account...... Second, when I spoke with Wells Fargo, they said their is no charge for refunds or chargebacks if you just refund them....... If you contest it, it is $25 per refund/chargebacks for their research and resolution......

      I am seriously considering switching before my launch in a few weeks...

      All the Best,

      Rich

      The six-month freeze is dictated by the refund policies of the credit card companies.

      With Visa-Mastercard, most card holders have up to 90 days to reverse a transaction. With American Express, the card holder has up to 180 days to reverse the transaction.

      I do know an individual in this forum who experienced a AmEx reversal 8-months after the original transaction. They told AmEx that if they reversed that transaction, they would cease doing business with AmEx, and AmEx said they did not care. The vendor had done high 6-figures with AmEx that year.

      AmEx said the refund would be processed against their merchant account, and the person who was the vendor in this deal shut down AmEx as a credit card option, as a result.

      Having a merchant account will not prevent you from seeing charge-backs, payment reversals, or even closed accounts!

      I have added a merchant account to my arsenal, but I don't have any delusions about what additional protections that gives to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
        Yes but they do not freeze your whole account like paypal does. I did paypal and now have a merchant account. I have never been locked up like paypal did.
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        The six-month freeze is dictated by the refund policies of the credit card companies.

        With Visa-Mastercard, most card holders have up to 90 days to reverse a transaction. With American Express, the card holder has up to 180 days to reverse the transaction.

        I do know an individual in this forum who experienced a AmEx reversal 8-months after the original transaction. They told AmEx that if they reversed that transaction, they would cease doing business with AmEx, and AmEx said they did not care. The vendor had done high 6-figures with AmEx that year.

        AmEx said the refund would be processed against their merchant account, and the person who was the vendor in this deal shut down AmEx as a credit card option, as a result.

        Having a merchant account will not prevent you from seeing charge-backs, payment reversals, or even closed accounts!

        I have added a merchant account to my arsenal, but I don't have any delusions about what additional protections that gives to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Not according to Wells Fargo..... The money is there the next day.... Of course, you could always have chargebacks, refund requests, etc....

        BUT, you can choose to refund them without penalty.... Unlike PayPal...

        Also, these are on a item by item basis... Your entire account is NOT frozen......

        Is it worth $40 a month to you....... To never have your entire account frozen, refund without penalty and have transactions under Federal banking regulations? Only you can answer that.....

        I am seriously considering it........

        All the Best,

        Rich


        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        The six-month freeze is dictated by the refund policies of the credit card companies.

        With Visa-Mastercard, most card holders have up to 90 days to reverse a transaction. With American Express, the card holder has up to 180 days to reverse the transaction.

        I do know an individual in this forum who experienced a AmEx reversal 8-months after the original transaction. They told AmEx that if they reversed that transaction, they would cease doing business with AmEx, and AmEx said they did not care. The vendor had done high 6-figures with AmEx that year.

        AmEx said the refund would be processed against their merchant account, and the person who was the vendor in this deal shut down AmEx as a credit card option, as a result.

        Having a merchant account will not prevent you from seeing charge-backs, payment reversals, or even closed accounts!

        I have added a merchant account to my arsenal, but I don't have any delusions about what additional protections that gives to me.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Not according to Wells Fargo..... The money is there the next day.... Of course, you could always have chargebacks, refund requests, etc....

          BUT, you can choose to refund them without penalty.... Unlike PayPal...

          Also, these are on a item by item basis... Your entire account is NOT frozen......

          Is it worth $40 a month to you....... To never have your entire account frozen, refund without penalty and have transactions under Federal banking regulations? Only you can answer that.....

          I am seriously considering it........

          All the Best,

          Rich

          Like I said, I do already have a merchant account.

          But Wells Fargo is not the company who makes the policy regarding charge-backs and reversals.

          Wells Fargo in this case is the merchant account service.

          Visa-Mastercard-AmEx are the people who work for their customers and not for you.

          If the consumer makes an argument for reversal to their credit card company, and the credit card company processes the reversal, then Wells Fargo is obligated to reverse it, unless you want to fight it. Then you can pay the $25 to fight it, but that is no guarantee that you will win.

          If your reversal rate is above a certain percentage of transactions or dollars, Wells Fargo as the merchant account service provider has the option and opportunity to close your merchant account, and they often will close your merchant account.

          Many merchant account service providers may also require a "rolling reserve" in order to process charge-backs and reversals if they happen. You don't get a choice in whether you have a "rolling reserve" or not, and most of those "rolling reserves" are for 90- or 180-days.



          p.s. PayPal uses merchant account services provided by JP Morgan and Wells Fargo.

          JP Morgan and Wells Fargo dictate when PayPal must reverse a payment, and they often make the decision on whose accounts will be closed.

          The reversal penalty fee that PayPal charges is paid across the board by vendors, to offset the costs that PayPal incurs when it fights a reversal on your behalf. Instead of charging $25 per reversal investigation, they charge smaller fees to those who are getting payments reversed.
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          • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
            I am passing along the information as I received it from a Wells Fargo rep..... It may or may not be accurate.....

            It seems like there is no way to "win" in this situation.... You just need to minimize your risk.....

            All the Best,

            Rich


            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            Like I said, I do already have a merchant account.

            But Wells Fargo is not the company who makes the policy regarding charge-backs and reversals.

            Wells Fargo in this case is the merchant account service.

            Visa-Mastercard-AmEx are the people who work for their customers and not for you.

            If the consumer makes an argument for reversal to their credit card company, and the credit card company processes the reversal, then Wells Fargo is obligated to reverse it, unless you want to fight it. Then you can pay the $25 to fight it, but that is no guarantee that you will win.

            If your reversal rate is above a certain percentage of transactions or dollars, Wells Fargo as the merchant account service provider has the option and opportunity to close your merchant account, and they often will close your merchant account.



            p.s. PayPal uses merchant account services provided by JP Morgan and Wells Fargo.

            JP Morgan and Wells Fargo dictate when PayPal must reverse a payment, and they often make the decision on whose accounts will be closed.

            The reversal penalty fee that PayPal charges is paid across the board by vendors, to offset the costs that PayPal incurs when it fights a reversal on your behalf. Instead of charging $25 per reversal investigation, they charge smaller fees to those who are getting payments reversed.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Okay so same thing, which is better, can you not use both, I am sure both sites have alot of different members.

    Would it not be wise to incorporate both into one wso at the same time. Same launch and everything, You just have to check one email to answer questions and support.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Okay, fiverr emailed paypal, this was last year, Told them my and several other micro worker sites were in copyright infringement for using the word gig, which they said they had a trademark on.

    They did not have a trademark on that name, they have a pending trademard which will never go through. You can not trademark a word in the dictionary.

    None the least, paypal froze us all, for 45 days. Now I do not think this will happen with a merchant account.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    I choose option number 3, creating your own processor via PayPal IPN.
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  • Profile picture of the author Looking4Mentor
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
      warrior plus is the innovator

      came out several years ago. When they did, what they offered was cutting edge.

      They have benefited from a monopoly and now boast a ton of affiliates and a name brand

      there will be many who just won't leave because of brand loyalty (happens a lot in business)

      They haven't done much updating of the system though and there are clearly things that would be very helpful to users if they upgraded.

      They have frequent technical/downtime problems, the way they handle affiliate splits is not fair to affiliates, doing oto/jv/refunds is difficult, and newbs have a hard time setting up their account properly.

      Even with that said as the most common complaints

      WSOPro is still the largest serviceprovider of its kind here on WF.


      However we know from history that FIRST to market does not mean you stay on top (by the time Google came out there were already SEVERAL MAJOR search engines, most of which don't exist anymore - like excite, altavista etc), in fact it is usually the opposite (think Friendster - who preceded both Facebook AND Myspace as largest social network)

      This is the graphic I found in another thread:


      * WSO Sellers can choose a one time flat fee to save money!


      Take it with a grain of salt - it was made by JVZoo!





      Originally Posted by Looking4Mentor View Post

      Hello,

      I am looking to do a launch here on the WF. This thread will be very insightful to me as I need to make a final decision within a couple weeks.

      I did receive an e-mail about the benefits of JVZoo... it was very appealing with less fees and multi-options... but that's their job, send a really good sales e-mail about the benefits of their services for conversion.

      I would actually like to hear more about the WarriorPlus side and what they offer.

      Peace.
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  • Profile picture of the author jkennedy
    Haven't used Warrior Plus, but I just love JVZoo. They paid for my WSO as well. Very easy to use and the staff is super friendly. I'm hooked.
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  • Profile picture of the author P.Sharma
    Wow....I was actually wondering about the same thing because I am doing a launch in a few days. I think I'll put it on JVZoo too.

    Very nice discussion here
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    I have often wondered why there is no Universal black list.

    I remember before the internet boom, well...back when there was NO world wide web, and then shortly after its inception there were blacklists for bad check writers. In fact there are still a few companies around. Some people can not get checking accounts today because of them.

    There is some sort of privacy concern though with cc i believe, not sure and would have to check.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
    Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

    Which Is Better for Launching a WSO: JVZoo or Warrior Plus. I say it's...

    The one that just PAID FOR MY WSO LISTING FEE!
    You asked a question... and then supplied your answer.

    Is there a (not so well) hidden agenda, here?
    The top sellers have a good relationship with WSOPRO and they clearly have more affiliates.
    That seems to be much more more pertinent to the question you asked. Any merchant looking to launch a new WSO with the help of affiliates - would be silly to opt for the smaller affiliate base.

    Apart from that, I'm curious about the level of fraud experienced, with either service.

    I haven't seen any posting regarding this issue specific to JVZoo, but they use Paypal's Adaptive Payments API, and there have been a number of postings with regard to refund issues using that API with other services. WSO Pro does NOT use Adaptive Payments, and does not seem to have the same level of issues (at least not from what I've read here on the WF). Have I missed something?
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    • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
      Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

      You asked a question... and then supplied your answer.

      Is there a (not so well) hidden agenda, here?

      You seem confused. I did not ask a question. I asked for opinions, then merely provided what my own opinion is on the topic.

      Similar to saying, "who is a better president: Bush or Obama. I say it's..."

      no "agenda" necessary. Just my perspective.

      I have then in many posts backed up my reasons WHY I have formed such an opinion. and if you read all the posts, you will see I have given a very fair comparison and contrasting of both services.

      again. no agenda needed.

      Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

      That seems to be much more more pertinent to the question you asked. Any merchant looking to launch a new WSO with the help of affiliates - would be silly to opt for the smaller affiliate base.
      THAT IS YOUR OPINION. Clearly that is an important feature to you, but these are not merely "affiliate recruiting" tools. Hence the multiple features of both services. There are different elements that are attractive to different people. That is no more pertinent a point than any other point or counterpoint I made.

      If that logic was used by everyone (and fortunately it is NOT), then no "small" or "new" service would ever get off the ground.

      I was a concert and event promoter for many years. The oddest dynamic I ever noticed was the early crowd. People would come and then say - hey, nobody is here, i will come back when more people are here. Of course they never came back, but the place would later be packed. It got packed not because everyone came at once, nor was it an "event" in an instant, but because people came, and STAYED, as more people came, the event gets packed. This is also why a lot of club owners use a technique called "holding the line" for people just like you. This is also where the concept of "pre-launch" in IM comes from. Some providers have to game the system to show a "crowd" so that guys like you will pay them some attention:rolleyes:

      My point is, some people like yourself only go if there is a crowd. And they go with the crowd whether it is a good crowd or not. Just so long as the crowd is doing it.

      Others, allow things to stand on their own merits, and rather than follow social or crowd dynamics or make decisions based on emotion, they logically look at what is going to be best for their particular situation.

      As I said, an apples-to-apples comparison for most people shows JVZ a winner for many reasons.



      Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

      Apart from that, I'm curious about the level of fraud experienced, with either service.

      I haven't seen any posting regarding this issue specific to JVZoo, but they use Paypal's Adaptive Payments API, and there have been a number of postings with regard to refund issues using that API with other services. WSO Pro does NOT use Adaptive Payments, and does not seem to have the same level of issues (at least not from what I've read here on the WF). Have I missed something?
      Thats a great question. We all will probably have to wait until JVZoo reaches critical mass to find out.

      Also, there are always 2 sides to the story...so one would be wise to dig deeper into such rumors.

      1) is the problem "paypals AP api"? or is it with the coding/backend used to access it?

      I know lots of people in the early days of using paypals Instant Payment Notification (IPN) complained about problems...the source was to later be found out as caused by restrictions in the firewall of server or even bandwidth restrictions on small shared accounts.


      2) as far as number of issues...well, are we on the same warrior forum? lol - i have seen complaints about wsopro and its uptime and difficulty in getting started since they started...guess we hang on different sides of the yard:confused:

      3) The fact that WSOP does NOT use adaptive payments is the SELLING POINT that JVZ emphasizes(wise for any competitor to do)

      a) affiliates get SCREWED on payments. without the APAPI due the way splits are done.
      b) refunds are difficult and costly to the seller because they must first contact the affiliate, and then hope they can and will refund - else they must do it out of their own pocket to protect their brand name.


      Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

      Have I missed something?

      Yes, you have. 3 somethings off the top of my head.

      Overall - JVZ is a more contemporary service, and like any of its kind it is going to do 3 things immediately.

      1) JVZ is DISRUPTIVE in the marketplace.
      In the long term cause WSOP to improve or die due to increased market share

      2) JVZ WILL GROW FAST
      it will get (and already is getting) a lot of new business quickly because it is new and contemporary

      3) WE ALL WIN.
      JVZ will open the eyes of and bring in even more competitors to the marketplace for such services. I have already spoken with 2, helping them beta test their systems before launch.


      In the end this means much better service and options for all sellers!
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

        THAT IS YOUR OPINION. Clearly that is an important feature to you, but these are not merely "affiliate recruiting" tools.
        Indeed, both services offer many features that are not specifically geared toward affiliate recruiting. However (and yes, this is my opinion), I think the primary reason for using either service is to recruit affiliates for the promotion of a given WSO.

        Sure there are differences that will attract one merchant versus another, but I feel confident in saying that if one is more effective in producing a greater level of sales, and the merchant is aware of that potential, it will (in more cases than not) be the deciding factor.

        Today, WSO Pro has that edge.

        If that logic was used by everyone (and fortunately it is NOT), then no "small" or "new" service would ever get off the ground.
        Established services will almost always carry a competitive edge. That doesn't mean that the newer service is not viable, but they must prove themselves to gain wider acceptance in the marketplace, and they must have the resources to "go the distance".

        Some providers have to game the system to show a "crowd" so that guys like you will pay them some attention:rolleyes:
        "guys like me"? I don't think you know me - or anything about me. Certainly not enough to presume what it takes to get my attention. I've followed the marketing activities of both of these services, since their inception.

        My point is, some people like yourself only go if there is a crowd. And they go with the crowd whether it is a good crowd or not. Just so long as the crowd is doing it.
        Again, you show a propensity for making assumptions about what I am like - with apparently no first-hand knowledge of same.

        As I said, an apples-to-apples comparison for most people shows JVZ a winner for many reasons.
        You apparently have your own, very different definition for the word "most".

        a) affiliates get SCREWED on payments. without the APAPI due the way splits are done.
        How so? Simply because they are not paid until their second referral? That 2nd referral sale earns the affiliate the full selling price - immediately bringing them to an equitable payout level.

        Considering that this method of payment protects the merchant from a heck of a lot of affiliate fraud, a merchant may in fact prefer this model.

        As for the affiliate...
        Most affiliate programs still require at least a 2 week delay (usually more) for commission payouts. Would the affiliate who doesn't believe he/she can refer at least 2 sales, even bother promoting?

        b) refunds are difficult and costly to the seller because they must first contact the affiliate, and then hope they can and will refund - else they must do it out of their own pocket to protect their brand name.
        I've been using the rotating payments for my own affiliate program for over 4 years, and don't find this to be true... at all. I'm also active in chat groups and forums with other merchants who use the rotating commission payments model, and the topic has rarely come up.

        1) JVZ is DISRUPTIVE in the marketplace.
        In the long term cause WSOP to improve or die due to increased market share
        I understand, and (to a degree) I agree - but I don't think it's a "done deal". JVZoo isn't the first player to utilize the Adaptive Payments API (although I do think they have a more complete offering than their predecessors), and they may/may not be able to gain sufficient market acceptance to compensate them for the ongoing costs of running the service.

        2) JVZ WILL GROW FAST
        it will get (and already is getting) a lot of new business quickly because it is new and contemporary
        I haven't seen evidence of this quick growth. In fact, it appears that they have had to adjust their original business model a couple of times (in very subtle ways), in an attempt to foster the growth that you seem to think is already there. To their credit... they recognized the need, and made those adjustments.

        3) WE ALL WIN.
        JVZ will open the eyes of and bring in even more competitors to the marketplace for such services. I have already spoken with 2, helping them beta test their systems before launch.
        Yep. Competition is, generally speaking, good.
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  • Profile picture of the author MervikHaums
    Hey guys,

    Thanks for this very useful discussion.

    I've a question. My wsos normally sell over 1000 copies and I know that there are several other marketers who bring good products and sell over 1000 copies every time.

    Say the avg price of a product is 10 dollars. Then the total sales would be around 10k dollars. If I'm correct, it says that the fee is a flat 5%. If its true the total fee for such a launch will be 500 dollars. I admit that I'm not fully satisfied with w+. But I'd rather pay 19$ and be with the top affiliate network (at least for the time being) at w+ than paying 500 dollars for a launch.

    Am I missing something here?

    P.S. I'd definitely join JVZoo to promote some excellent products out there. But about launching my own wsos there, I'm still confused.
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    • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
      Originally Posted by MervikHaums View Post

      Hey guys,

      Thanks for this very useful discussion.

      I've a question. My wsos normally sell over 1000 copies and I know that there are several other marketers who bring good products and sell over 1000 copies every time.

      Say the avg price of a product is 10 dollars. Then the total sales would be around 10k dollars. If I'm correct, it says that the fee is a flat 5%. If its true the total fee for such a launch will be 500 dollars. I admit that I'm not fully satisfied with w+. But I'd rather pay 19$ and be with the top affiliate network (at least for the time being) at w+ than paying 500 dollars for a launch.

      Am I missing something here?

      P.S. I'd definitely join JVZoo to promote some excellent products out there. But about launching my own wsos there, I'm still confused.

      2 things

      1) JVZoo says they have a singular payment option of $17, that would be what you would want to use

      2) WSOP charges per item, so if you have a OTO, you pay TWICE....JVZ you do not pay separate for a OTO, it is included.


      ***
      sid hale - I presumed no more about you, than you did of me No point responding to your posts, as it will turn to debate, something I have little time for. Let's just say I fully disagree with you
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      • Profile picture of the author MervikHaums
        Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

        2 things

        1) JVZoo says they have a singular payment option of $17, that would be what you would want to use

        2) WSOP charges per item, so if you have a OTO, you pay TWICE....JVZ you do not pay separate for a OTO, it is included.


        ***
        sid hale - I presumed no more about you, than you did of me No point responding to your posts, as it will turn to debate, something I have little time for. Let's just say I fully disagree with you
        Thanks bro

        I didn't see that there is an option of $17 one time payment including the OTO the screenshot you've shared just said flat 5%. My bad that I didn't go check the website. Anyways - that makes JVZ a good competitor with more features to w+. I'm thinking of doing a launch there

        About the price of W+, there is an option to get unlimited licenses for an one time fee. So I'd not change from w+ for the reason its expensive. But definitely Jvzoo is a great platform with a lot more features than w+. Especially the split payments, full affiliate payments without fee and above all, the free affiliate membership. I'm an affiliate now As soon as JVZ gets a good affiliate network to promote the launches, many marketers would happily launch there wsos there.

        Mervik
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Fladlien
          Well here's the rub - doing alternative payments like WSO plus or what Sid's Rapid Action Profits do helps prevent affiliate fraud. BUT I can tell you firsthand it also does put up an undesirable barrier for affiliates.

          a) You have to explain to them how it works... (try doing something other than 50%... in a market outside of IM...)
          b) You have to have THEM refund an order if it came from them... (we've had to eat these sometime because the affiliate didn't process it....)

          The second point is a huge turn off for most decent affiliates. It's NOT the fact they might miss out on one sales commission if it lands on odd. It's that they have to provide customer service for the refund.

          On the other hand, adaptive payments is not a bed of roses either. There is more propensity for fraud with AP from an affiliate side as well as a vendor's side.

          Neither one is perfect but my opinion is I prefer adaptive payments personally.

          I actually don't use either WSO Plus or JVZOO. We use nanacast to take our payments for WSOs. We get on our own affiliate network to promote the wso's through nanacast... and we're happy with it.

          True we don't get as many new affiliates as we would with the two above mentioned services. But we also don't give all the leads to those two services either, which in my opinion, is the BIGGEST factor.
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          • Profile picture of the author alliance
            Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien View Post

            Well here's the rub - doing alternative payments like WSO plus or what Sid's Rapid Action Profits do helps prevent affiliate fraud. BUT I can tell you firsthand it also does put up an undesirable barrier for affiliates.

            a) You have to explain to them how it works... (try doing something other than 50%... in a market outside of IM...)
            b) You have to have THEM refund an order if it came from them... (we've had to eat these sometime because the affiliate didn't process it....)

            The second point is a huge turn off for most decent affiliates. It's NOT the fact they might miss out on one sales commission if it lands on odd. It's that they have to provide customer service for the refund.

            On the other hand, adaptive payments is not a bed of roses either. There is more propensity for fraud with AP from an affiliate side as well as a vendor's side.

            Neither one is perfect but my opinion is I prefer adaptive payments personally.

            I actually don't use either WSO Plus or JVZOO. We use nanacast to take our payments for WSOs. We get on our own affiliate network to promote the wso's through nanacast... and we're happy with it.

            True we don't get as many new affiliates as we would with the two above mentioned services. But we also don't give all the leads to those two services either, which in my opinion, is the BIGGEST factor.
            Jason your signature link offer is not working.
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          • Profile picture of the author john b
            Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien View Post

            Well here's the rub - doing alternative payments like WSO plus or what Sid's Rapid Action Profits do helps prevent affiliate fraud. BUT I can tell you firsthand it also does put up an undesirable barrier for affiliates.

            a) You have to explain to them how it works... (try doing something other than 50%... in a market outside of IM...)
            b) You have to have THEM refund an order if it came from them... (we've had to eat these sometime because the affiliate didn't process it....)

            The second point is a huge turn off for most decent affiliates. It's NOT the fact they might miss out on one sales commission if it lands on odd. It's that they have to provide customer service for the refund.

            On the other hand, adaptive payments is not a bed of roses either. There is more propensity for fraud with AP from an affiliate side as well as a vendor's side.

            Neither one is perfect but my opinion is I prefer adaptive payments personally.

            I actually don't use either WSO Plus or JVZOO. We use nanacast to take our payments for WSOs. We get on our own affiliate network to promote the wso's through nanacast... and we're happy with it.

            True we don't get as many new affiliates as we would with the two above mentioned services. But we also don't give all the leads to those two services either, which in my opinion, is the BIGGEST factor.

            what do you mean...give the leads to those two services?

            don't like the sound of that

            thanks,
            john b
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            • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
              Originally Posted by digitalprofitzone View Post

              what do you mean...give the leads to those two services?

              don't like the sound of that

              thanks,
              john b
              What he means, is that when you use WarriorPlus, Paygear, Payspree, DigiResults or JVZoo, you're giving away your buyer's name and email to the network in order to have your payment processed. The network can, in turn, market to those buyers. In reality, we do the same thing with Amazon and Clickbank.
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            • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
              Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

              Okay so same thing, which is better, can you not use both, I am sure both sites have alot of different members.

              Would it not be wise to incorporate both into one wso at the same time. Same launch and everything, You just have to check one email to answer questions and support.

              Does anyone know if JVZoo does subscriptions yet? I looked but couldn't find an answer.

              Amber
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

        No point responding to your posts, as it will turn to debate, something I have little time for. Let's just say I fully disagree with you
        Silly me. I could have sworn that you asked for our opinions.

        I addressed my opinion to you, as you were the OP in this thread, but you apparently only wanted opinions that were in agreement with your own. (oooops. there I go, making assumptions again. My bad!)
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  • Profile picture of the author RichardBravo
    "First let me say that I am not associated with JVZoo in any way shape or form other than being a customer."


    We just launched our first WSO yesterday, but Ive been in the IM arena for 10 years. We went with JVZoo for a couple of reasons...

    1. as an affiliate myself, the rotating commissions & monthly subscription fee to promote offers in W+ were a turnoff. I like getting paid for all of the business I generate. As Im sure everyone else does, so we wanted to make sure our affiliates would be taken care of in that respect.

    As for the affiliate fee, it was just one more expense an affiliate would incur that may turn them away. A big part of my business is helping new people get started online and many have dramatically limited capital to work with. Being able to recommend free or very low cost solutions to them is a big part of helping them profit as quickly as possible. JVZoo is a great optin in that respect.

    2. The $17 flat fee including the OTO was very attractive as we plan to roll out a lot of offers. Small details, but I saw how this expense would add up quick.

    3. A really nice feature they include are secure downloads.
    You can store up to 128mb I believe behind their encrypted delivery service. This is a big time saver for simple products where a full blown self hosted membership site for instance is not required. And it will help with pirating as they lock down IPs if they are "sharing" the link.

    3. Another small detail, but as a designer I really enjoy the buy button gallery JVZoo provides. Based on a Belcher Button foundation, which as we all know is a proven sales page element, they give me a lot of flexibility for design variables.

    4. Overall the system was relatively simple to use once I got it figured out.


    There are some drawbacks that I identified right away as well...

    1. W+ obviously has a larger existing affiliate base. Im sure JVZoo's base will grow, but it was a concern going in that we just had to make a gut call on. There are some affiliates I'd like to attract that I know are plugged into W+

    2. I dont know if there is preference given to W+ offers for WSO of the Day.
    Obviously getting this stamp of approval is a big deal, so if there is preference given that's a negative aspect of a JVZoo listing. (note however that JVZoo also has their own Offer of the Day feature)

    3. From what I've seen JVZoo does not provide a clear set of instructions or a "manual" that I could find readily available in the dashboard. This would be a really nice touch... a full set of detailed tutorials similar to what you find in OptimizePress.

    I did finally come across a few videos in the support site knowledge base, but it wasn't an intuitive place to look. I spent about an hour and a half trying to figure out how to access the button gallery for example. A quick tooltip or something would have been a massive help at that stage.


    That's my take so far as a new JVZoo user.


    As far as pirating, it's definitely an issue.
    One action you can take if you aren't aware of it is to contact the admin for any particular forum and request that your products be added to their DNS list (Do Not Share). It's not 100% effective, but if you get in the DNS list of the big sites at least you can reduce the exposure significantly.

    Another crucial piece you need to have in place as a publisher is security. I can't tell you how many WSOs and other products Ive purchased and come to find the download page was nothing more than a index.html file or some other name in a sub folder on the product domain. The product files were wide open... even indexable by engines.

    Lock your stuff down, even if you just use something as simple as a WP password protected page that include in your followup email or something. Anything is better than nothing.

    But keep in mind, at the end of the day it is what it is and you won't stop it 100%. If someone wants to share your stuff its going to get out there. Make sure you add really calls to action in all your stuff... you never know, the person reading your stuff from a share just might become a fan and wind up buying your stuff someday.

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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    I really can't see why anyone would vote for W+ to be the better platform. It doesn't do anything better. JVZoo does everything better.

    Especially the commission thing. What affiliate doesn't want credit for all their sales?

    The only edge is the number of affiliates. But if you put a link in your WSO to your affiliate page people will sign up. Plus it is growing in leaps and bounds.
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    just a couple of notes...

    I was informed that JVzoo has some kind of blacklisting thing coming. (not verified)
    I was also informed that W+ had the same thing coming (but that was months ago and not verified).

    And as far as JVZoo being a ghost town - there are products in the affiliate panel that show over 500 sales and others over 1000 sales.

    That appears to be evidence of a pretty stout little affiliate army to me.

    And I like the split payments - especially for high ticket WSOs (and any other higher ticket items for that matter).
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    • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
      Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

      Silly me. I could have sworn that you asked for our opinions.

      I addressed my opinion to you, as you were the OP in this thread, but you apparently only wanted opinions that were in agreement with your own. (oooops. there I go, making assumptions again. My bad!)

      yup there you go...again...just like you did in the beginning when you came out on the offense accusing me of having an "agenda"

      and you just did something we counselors like to call "baiting"

      Thanks for your opinion...I asked which is better, thats it. No one else on this thread, whether they agree or not has taken the stand you keep taking.

      Everyone here is having a nice discussion - you keep taking it in a whole different direction - and continue to.

      You just seem to want to argue, not my style...let it go man, seriously.


      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      I really can't see why anyone would vote for W+ to be the better platform. It doesn't do anything better. JVZoo does everything better.

      Especially the commission thing. What affiliate doesn't want credit for all their sales?

      The only edge is the number of affiliates. But if you put a link in your WSO to your affiliate page people will sign up. Plus it is growing in leaps and bounds.
      exactly

      remember what I said about crowd dynamics. IT is the POPULAR one...the one that everyone knows and talks about. This is how "gurus" sell shovels and shiny objects.

      Alan (owner of WF) used to call that the "herd" mentality

      They say its better because everyone else does, and it is more well known. Yet, not having actually seen JVZ or ANYTHING else.
      Originally Posted by honestbizpro View Post

      Ha I thought of that too, but really it would be a dis service to your affiliate who worked hard to get them there and then clicked the other guys buy button.

      Actually it wouldn't. JV Zoo gives you a SEPARATE sales page (pretty easy to format too)....affiliates end up sending people to the JVZoo page which is not the WSO here on wf.


      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      just a couple of notes...

      I was informed that JVzoo has some kind of blacklisting thing coming. (not verified)
      I was also informed that W+ had the same thing coming (but that was months ago and not verified).

      And as far as JVZoo being a ghost town - there are products in the affiliate panel that show over 500 sales and others over 1000 sales.

      That appears to be evidence of a pretty stout little affiliate army to me.

      And I like the split payments - especially for high ticket WSOs (and any other higher ticket items for that matter).
      lol -only a person who has an opinion based off nothing and has not actually LOOKED at JVZoo would say they are a ghost town.

      I know of a couple large launches about to come through there...but I Digress.

      The paypal API is actually pretty sweet the way it does everything automatically.

      JVZ has a lot of room for improvement for sure, but they are miles ahead of WSOP - which has needed improvement for some years now.

      If they keep it up, they can become a large market player IMO
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      • Profile picture of the author zerofill
        JVZoo has been great from my experience so far. No downtime, seems to always be up when a payment attempt comes through. I can't say the same for W+.

        Anyone who has run payments their selves for a site using the normal PayPal IPN routine... knows that PayPal can often be very late to the party at times sending the IPN back.

        So if you have a delay on a IPN coming back... and 5 more sales come in... you're screwed... Don't care what anyone says. I have seen it many times for myself. Been screwed by it many times myself.

        Where with the adaptive payments that doesn't happen that way because it is split right form the get go.

        So that right there is enough for me to use JVZoo.

        I have used so many different things for handling transactions in the past. I have used DLGuard, RAP, W+, JVZoo, Clickbank, EMP, hell I probably couldn't name them all in an hour lol.

        JVZoo has been smooth for me. Has been working great... so I will continue to use it.

        Not to mention... I don't care what anyone says. PayPal in my opinion does not like the round robin affiliate payment setup. How could they like it? Not to mention that it causes confusion for buyers. Buyers look back at their transaction and automatically think the affiliate was the product creator/seller. That crap get's real annoying real fast. Anyone that has done any volume of sales KNOWS this happens. Not to mention I have talked to one of the head risk department people at PayPal many times... So I know for a fact they are not that thrilled with that way of doing affiliate payments. When your doing 400k+ in transactions in PayPal you can reach those people.

        The guys selling 50-100 of something probably slide under the radar easily with PayPal doing it the old "you get this payment, I get the next." But I can guarantee if you do any real volume you are definitely being looked at.
        Especially when it is digital. non-tangible goods all the time.

        PayPal is one of those places where you might be looked at for over a year before they lay the hammer down on you when you least expect it. So I try and give them as few reasons as possible to question what I am doing.

        So JVZoo for me for instant payments for affiliates.

        On products I don't do instant pay (outside WF or the IM circle) Then I use other methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Ramsey
    Just to tell everyone, I love JVZoo.

    I don't have time right now to go over all the reasons why in detail, so I'll leave a few thoughts.

    1. Their customer service TRUMPS that of the other WSO systems

    2. They're quick to add new features that users suggest

    3. They're willing to go out of their way to help sellers when a problem arises (I got multiple phone calls from their staff when I had trouble on a Saturday afternoon)

    4. It can be used outside WSOs without any problem (No ugly little buttons that nobody would click outside the forums)

    5. I've gotten to know one of the owners, and he's seriously one of the best guys I've met in a long time. Very knowledgable about his system, extremely responsive, and realizes that without the affiliates and sellers, the system would be nowhere.

    6. They have features WSO Pro could never have because it's using PayPal's Adaptive Payment System (which means WAY less chance of the dreaded "paypal slap")

    7. They're working on features that only the huge, expensive, hard to use systems have and they're making them incredibly simple.

    8. Everybody gets paid on every freakin' sale. That's just awesome.

    That's about it for now. I could keep writing, but I really need to sign off for a bit
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  • Profile picture of the author MervikHaums
    Hey guys,

    I've a question for those who are already promoting affiliate products via JVZoo. I tried asking this on their wso thread, but didn't get an answer. Is there a way to find only the wsos released through jvzoo sorted according to the date published? (I think, since Jvzoo can also be used to release products outside WF, the list of products aren't completely warriors special offers, isn't it?) I can't see the release date on their products listing. Any idea?

    Mervik

    Edit: Found how to list the products according to the date of release. Also, the WSOs are highlighted. No section for wsos alone, i guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelmac
    Wow...this looks amazing. I will definately have to look into JVZoo in greater detail. Great thread btw!
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  • Profile picture of the author john b
    i've been using jvzoo just about since they opened and been very happy with them.

    haven't done a wso with them yet (working on first wso now), so not sure on how that part compares to using warrior plus.

    thanks,
    john b
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  • Profile picture of the author Raja Kamil
    I registered jvzoo last week, look the same servise as Andy Fletcher's, digiresults.com.
    everything else was perfect with Andy's until one time, where spammer/scammer attacked it, and made me stop using them anymore.

    auto split commission look good, but have drawback, seen it with digiresult where scammer bought my product and ask the refund. make me sick.

    jvzoo not popular yet and hopefully they overcome the problem.


    btw, I'm big fan of warriorplus, love it as vendor and affiliate.
    vendor : like publishing my product in frontnof pottential jv who had large mailing list
    affiliate : have lot of awesome product with good sales copy to promotw.

    one thing I don't like them is, how commission is paid, right now, my only choice is to promote the 100% commission products.
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  • Profile picture of the author ddev
    JvZoo looks promising but for those who have products that interact with PayPal api (like software that create server side accounts after payment its complete), there's no clear help on how to keep on getting the notifications.

    There is a video tutorial that is ok to setup a basic product, but there's still no valuable help on how to deal with IPN integration (at least at the moment of writing this).

    Hope they can add more clear info on topics like this as it will simplify migration to many of us.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
      Originally Posted by ddev View Post

      JvZoo looks promising but for those who have products that interact with PayPal api (like software that create server side accounts after payment its complete), there's no clear help on how to keep on getting the notifications.

      There is a video tutorial that is ok to setup a basic product, but there's still no valuable help on how to deal with IPN integration (at least at the moment of writing this).

      Hope they can add more clear info on topics like this as it will simplify migration to many of us.
      I saw this on the right side of the "Add a Product" page. It looks like external IPN integration.

      http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1...01245423pm.png

      As for JVZoo requests, I'd like to see an Affiliate Blacklist as well. I just had my conversions drop from 19.8% to 0.89% because an affiliate sent me junk Adf.ly traffic overnight. It'd be nice to ban them for life since they don't have a credible traffic source. That's what I get for not realizing that auto-approval was enabled for a few hours.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Jesus,

    That is unfortunate when an affiliate bombards you with bad traffic and lowers your conversion rate. I know, as it has happened to me on various networks. It can happen on any network... but there is a cure.

    We are launching a feature next week that will allow sellers to ban affiliates from promoting their products. We are still working out the details, as it is a touchy topic.

    The biggest hurdle is when an affiliate pays for traffic or mails his list about a specific product, we do not want the sellers to be able to ban the affiliate and steal the commissions.

    We are thinking the best way is to allow a grace period. If a seller bans an affiliate, the affiliate is notified and has 48 hours to stop promoting. After that grace period, his affiliate links are deactivated.

    We are certainly open to suggestions for this feature.
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    • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      Jesus,

      That is unfortunate when an affiliate bombards you with bad traffic and lowers your conversion rate. I know, as it has happened to me on various networks. It can happen on any network... but there is a cure.

      We are launching a feature next week that will allow sellers to ban affiliates from promoting their products. We are still working out the details, as it is a touchy topic.

      The biggest hurdle is when an affiliate pays for traffic or mails his list about a specific product, we do not want the sellers to be able to ban the affiliate and steal the commissions.

      We are thinking the best way is to allow a grace period. If a seller bans an affiliate, the affiliate is notified and has 48 hours to stop promoting. After that grace period, his affiliate links are deactivated.

      We are certainly open to suggestions for this feature.

      a ratings system where affiliates and sellers can rate each other
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by igrowyourbiz View Post

        a ratings system where affiliates and sellers can rate each other
        Are you spying on us? lol That is already in the works.
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        • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
          Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

          Are you spying on us? lol That is already in the works.
          you might be surprised
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    • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      Jesus,

      That is unfortunate when an affiliate bombards you with bad traffic and lowers your conversion rate. I know, as it has happened to me on various networks. It can happen on any network... but there is a cure.

      We are launching a feature next week that will allow sellers to ban affiliates from promoting their products. We are still working out the details, as it is a touchy topic.

      The biggest hurdle is when an affiliate pays for traffic or mails his list about a specific product, we do not want the sellers to be able to ban the affiliate and steal the commissions.

      We are thinking the best way is to allow a grace period. If a seller bans an affiliate, the affiliate is notified and has 48 hours to stop promoting. After that grace period, his affiliate links are deactivated.

      We are certainly open to suggestions for this feature.
      Thanks for the update, Brian. It's your continued updates and response to the community that have captured my interest in the network.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Fellow Warriors,

    I have been an advocate of JVZoo..... I like their business model... They make money when I make money.....

    I recently posted a WSO using JVZoo.... There was an issue.... and they promptly resolved it.....

    I was especially impressed with Rich at JVZoo... I wrote...
    Rich, I appreciate your thorough and thoughtful response. In our "Internet" market, this personal touch is too frequently lost.
    I would highly recommend JVZoo.

    God Bless,

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author Ethiccash
    I have not posted here for quite a long time, but I guess it's worth it.
    I switched to JVZoo a few of my products to test them out. I can't say how positive my experience with JVzoo is compared to all other platforms out there (including WarriorPlus obviously but also Clickbank).

    Chris Ramsey summed it quite clearly about the pros of using JVzoo over other platforms.
    In a word, JVZOo is a complete business rupture: you get more for less, and they have for sure a sustainable competitive advantage.

    Why would any affiliate pay to promote an offer? Why would any seller pay to publish offers? Why would you want to get paid randomly as an affiliate?

    I don't get why people are still using W+ since it's like comparing an iPhone4 with a Spectrum ZX81 (for those who are in their late 30s, it's obvious, for the others, just google it :-) )

    That's the drawback of operating a monopoly. You stop innovating getting stuck in getting as much money as you can from your forced users. W+ still has the biggest affiliate share, but we need to remember that in the IM field, WSO are only a tiny fraction of a % of sales generated.

    Technically there's no need to even publish a WSO once you're in JVZoo. You've got instant access to the affiliates and they have a good daily traffic from browsers. WSO gives a boost since you get noticed quickly. But if you have a good product, a few people in your list to initiate sales, you can then let the ball rolling in JVzoo.

    For sure they will grow (provided it does not become a monster where anyone asks for a feature :-) ) and get more top affiliates and vendors. But to me, their main advantage is that they're not tied to WSO forum, and thus they open the whole market to any vendor out there.

    JP
    PS: Brian, do not implement a grace period to ban affiliates. If an affiliate sends junk traffic and is paying for this, it's his responsibility to be aware of this unless he does not care. If he does not care, we should be able to ban it instantly (nothing to steal since he is not working correctly and not generating sales)
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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    Never seen a WSO of the day thru either DigiResults run WSO nor a JVZoo run WSO .... have you? Things that make you go ... hrmmmm ....????

    With the amount of ca$h being thrown off by WSO+ - cant image all of it is being stuffed into their bank for play $$$ - surely they are looking to innovate again soon?

    Paypal adaptive is very very nice on the shiny white surface - for sure, however; the dark under belly of offshore crime in the form of high commission products instant commissions for fake affiliates using stolen paypal account credentials is just too much for the affilaite scammers to resist.

    My products on Digiresults [ another great platform for selling ] was getting 10-15 affiliate sign up requests per day - all from yahoo and gmail addresses. All 100% fake scammers looking to use a stolen paypal account or two to scam the instant commissions.

    They all have warts. IPN is dead. Adapt and innovate - with protections and be ahead of the scammers and you'll earn the sellers and affiliates trust and business.

    Nanacast - they do instant paypal adaptive payments?


    Here's an innovative feature request ...

    How does a seller roll out of a platform theyve been entrenched in for ages - moving and notfiying thousands of affiliates they now need to change all their aff links.

    Sellers needing to recreate 20+ products and variants into a new system ...?

    ... then to find out once your entrenched and its a PITA to move - the network/platform doubles the trx fees and their take? Now what?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kate Davies
      Oh Gosh

      I'm still confused :confused:. I launched my first WSO using WSO Pro, recently and didn't even think about offering the WSO for affiliates to promote as they automatically get signed up to my own affiliate progaram for the full priced version.

      I have now realised (steep learning curve with your first WSO), due to requests from customers, that actually Warriors could promote the WSO too - and as it's at a special offer price it's more attractive than the full priced version - which I think is why Warriors are more keen to promote the WSO.

      I'm inexperienced in WSO and affiliate dealings, although very experienced in my own field. I was hoping that this thread would help me to decide which program to use for my future WSOs, but I'm more confused than ever now.

      JVzoo looks really good and I am tempted, but would I have a better chance of attracting more partners with using WSOPro for my next offering? Spreading the word as far as possible is pretty important to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      Never seen a WSO of the day thru either DigiResults run WSO nor a JVZoo run WSO .... have you? Things that make you go ... hrmmmm ....????
      I think you might be thinking that Warrior Plus is attached to Warrior Forum and that WF is getting a cut. It's not. Warrior Plus is run by one person who branded the offer that he picks WSO of The Day. Warrior Forum has nothing to do with picking it. Since it's only open to offer run on Warrior Plus, you won't ever see a WSO of the Day being given to an offer run on JVZoo, Digi, Mooshpay or anything else since those are competing systems If it was controled by WF, you don't think Allen would let other systems promote offers in his forum do you?


      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      Paypal adaptive is very very nice on the shiny white surface - for sure, however; the dark under belly of offshore crime in the form of high commission products instant commissions for fake affiliates using stolen paypal account credentials is just too much for the affilaite scammers to resist.

      My products on Digiresults was getting 10-15 affiliate sign up requests per day - all from yahoo and gmail addresses. All 100% fake scammers looking to use a stolen paypal account or two to scam the instant commissions.
      Which is why JVZoo and Digi all have affiliate interaction processes in place so you can do your due dilligence with who promotes your products. Both allow you to contact the potential affiliate and request information from them should you choose before approving them to promote. JVZoo also shows you sales stats on the affiliates so you can tell right away if they've been around a while and made sales or are brand new before you contact them. As always, safety is partially the responsibility of the vendor to due their due diligence when means are provided to them to do so.

      There are also other security measures that are put into place on JVZoo and I'm sure on Digiresults as well. Blacklists, affiliate bans, partial refunds from affiliates, etc.

      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      How does a seller roll out of a platform theyve been entrenched in for ages - moving and notfiying thousands of affiliates they now need to change all their aff links.
      Same way anyone else changes from one thing to the next when it's deemed better for their business. You pick up and move, let people know your moving and they follow you. The same way affiliates move when they realize they don't have to pay money to promote products, don't have to worry about doing customer support because a buyer got the receipt from them because it was their turn on the rotation. Getting paid on every sale instead of one out of every three which adds up to thousands over the course of the year in money they should have received, etc etc

      The amount of sellers that have already done this would surprise you.

      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      Sellers needing to recreate 20+ products and variants into a new system ...?
      I've seen people put up 20 products in an afternoon, when it only takes about 2 minutes to set one up, it can actually go pretty quickly.

      Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

      ... then to find out once your entrenched and its a PITA to move - the network/platform doubles the trx fees and their take? Now what?
      That would be pretty stupid on the platforms side to do that. Any platform is there to create business for themselves and when there are more than one option, to pull a stunt like that would certainly mean a loss of customers and a bad most likely viral effect to follow. If it was the only one, I could see that, but if there are options, it's not very smart. My opinion only though
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  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
    OK so just thought of something SUPER DUPER HELPFUL

    country Blocks

    on SALES and AFFILIATES

    I would love to be able to block

    india, russia and africa

    95%+ problems with affiliates and refund requests come from those areas.

    To just be able to automatically deny them would be great.
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    • Profile picture of the author Severin
      Banned
      What a truly interesting thread... Thanks to everyone for their input, it is certainly food for thought. But it appears that what you gain with one you lose with the other.

      If I had to choose...erm... JVzoo I guess purely for the split payment deal, but I would be forever wondering if I made the right choice, particularly the potential downside of less affiliates and the the power that 'WSO of the day' has.

      Perhaps what we need is a WSOPro/ JVzoo lovechild:

      Introducing

      WSOZoo




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      • Profile picture of the author RPMillar
        Wow. I was so excited to read this thread. I really thought I'd found the answer to my ongoing product launch woes.

        But after hours trying to get JVZoo to work all I can manage are server timeouts when I try to edit products and a list of test products with the title "Products below CANNOT be sold!" and no further info on what needs to be done so that they CAN be sold.

        Oh well... back to the drawing board, I guess...
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        • Profile picture of the author RPMillar
          Originally Posted by RPMillar View Post

          Wow. I was so excited to read this thread. I really thought I'd found the answer to my ongoing product launch woes.

          But after hours trying to get JVZoo to work all I can manage are server timeouts when I try to edit products and a list of test products with the title "Products below CANNOT be sold!" and no further info on what needs to be done so that they CAN be sold.

          Oh well... back to the drawing board, I guess...
          The JVZoo server seems to be working at a normal speed today, and my issues were quickly resolved by Rich in support. 2 thumbs up!
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