Why talking about the 'benefits' may be hurting your sales

51 replies
What would happen if the news was filled with with fluffy, positive, feel-good stories?

How long before people stopped watching?

The people behind the news, know that "fluffy" stories don't get attention.

They know that if they didn't talk about problems, people wouldn't tune in. And since their whole business model is centered around viewership, they can't afford to talk about solutions (benefits) like we marketers do.

They would go out of business, and soon be replaced by another company, who would talk about Problems.

What business are you in?

You're not in the dental business, or the plumbing business, or the info marketing business.

You are in the getting and keeping attention business.

Problems = Get Attention
Solutions = Keep Attention

It's worth considering that if you start with the problem, you're much more likely to get the attention you want.

Follow up with the solution to keep it.


If you suddenly got a piercing headache, right this second, you wouldn't be reading the rest of this sentence. Before the headache, you weren't even aware you had a head.

I mean, how many people reading the threads on this forum, are struggling?

About 90% ????

Those people are looking for success, yes?

But what do they identify more with?

What is the story going on in their heads?

What is REALLY keeping them awake at night?

Is it dreams of success, or the anxiety from struggling to even pay the bills on time?

Again, just something to think about.
#benefits #hurting #sales #talking
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  • Profile picture of the author Ged3
    Declan,


    great post!


    Presenting problems such as "How Do I Get Traffic To My Website?"


    "How Do I Host A Website?"


    "How Do I Find Content For My Website?"



    Then having the answer, will get a lot of attention.


    Problem solving = profits


    Ged
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve L
    I think there's a time and place for benefit talk, but I definitely agree that starting a pitch with pain is a sure fire way to get their attention!
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by Steve L View Post

      I think there's a time and place for benefit talk, but I definitely agree that starting a pitch with pain is a sure fire way to get their attention!

      Yep, I agree with that Steve.



      Even though I aim to start with the problem, in some cases it makes sense to start out with the benefits.


      The problem I see with most marketers headlines, is that they ALWAYS seem to start with a solution, regardless of what conversation is going on in their prospects minds.



      All the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author sgalla414
    People need a reason to exchange their money for whatever your "product" is. People are naturally selfish so they need to be convinced why your product will benefit them
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrianne_
    I've lead with both pain and benefits. However, I actually get better results when I offer a solution. I simply pay attention to what people are complaining about, and then create a custom ad that provides a solution right off the bat, and it works like a charm every single time, without touching any pain points.
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by Adrianne_ View Post

      I've lead with both pain and benefits. However, I actually get better results when I offer a solution. I simply pay attention to what people are complaining about, and then create a custom ad that provides a solution right off the bat, and it works like a charm every single time, without touching any pain points.

      Good for you Adrianne.

      When attracting opportunity seekers, I would always lead with a promise of easy money too.

      It's far easier to sell 'free money' to ANYONE, because we ALL want free money.

      It's more of a machine gun approach than a sniper rifle.

      And yes, those solution based ads, to opportunity seekers, work wonderfully well.

      It proves little though.

      The truth is, opportunity seekers don't actually have a problem you could define too narrowly.

      They are more or less just greedy little twats who one day will be looking for someone to solve the real problem they have of being broke, frustrated, fed up and overwhelmed.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adrianne_
        Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

        Good for you Adrianne.
        When attracting opportunity seekers, I would always lead with a promise of easy money too.
        Actually, my target audience is buyers who are not doing well in their business, rather than going after the opp seeker. Buyers have experience with several opportunities they already bought into and with just a few probing questions, i can usually get to the root of their "pain" rather quickly.
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        • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
          Originally Posted by Adrianne_ View Post

          Actually, my target audience is buyers who are not doing well in their business, rather than going after the opp seeker. Buyers have experience with several opportunities they already bought into and with just a few probing questions, i can usually get to the root of their "pain" rather quickly.

          Is that why you're linking to a cheap JVzoo system and using a 'blind' squeeze page to build your list?


          Pretty sure your audience are opp seekers Adrianne
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    It depends what you are selling. Sometimes your best move is to connect with a dream or hope people have. There isn't really a problem there that they are aware of, it's the dream that motivates them.

    For example, if you're looking for a tropical resort, you want one to match your imagination of the perfect place, not to be told about all of the "problems" that this place solves!

    Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      It depends what you are selling. Sometimes your best move is to connect with a dream or hope people have. There isn't really a problem there that they are aware of, it's the dream that motivates them.

      For example, if you're looking for a tropical resort, you want one to match your imagination of the perfect place, not to be told about all of the "problems" that this place solves!

      Marcia Yudkin

      All dreams start with a nightmare.

      And you're wrong when you say that it's the dream that motivates them.

      Nobody is motivated by a dream unless the dream is a better alternative to their life right now.

      People are twice as motivated to move away from pain as they are to move towards pleasure.

      Why does that statement hold true^^^^^^

      Let's not get bogged down with 'oh, you said problems get more attention than solutions' so that means it has to be this way 100% of time for 100% of the situations.

      The fact is, your brain will pay MORE attention to a problem, ahead of a solution, every damn time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Introducing the benefits someone could receive if they purchase a particular product can create a huge probability that someone will buy.

    For example, in the instance of a man trying to save his marriage, he is already fearful that his spouse will leave, and will do anything to keep them. So at this point, he is already scared.

    If you can offer a product that presents a positive outlook with benefits that he can feel assured of, then you will have a good chance at keeping his attention - and have him focusing on what you have to say.

    Because if you just bog him down with more negative stuff... what does he have to look forward to with you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      Introducing the benefits someone could receive if they purchase a particular product can create a huge probability that someone will buy.

      For example, in the instance of a man trying to save his marriage, he is already fearful that his spouse will leave, and will do anything to keep them. So at this point, he is already scared.

      If you can offer a product that presents a positive outlook with benefits that he can feel assured of, then you will have a good chance at keeping his attention - and have him focusing on what you have to say.

      Because if you just bog him down with more negative stuff... what does he have to look forward to with you?

      Am I in a marketing forum here, or on seasame street

      If a man believes his wife is going to leave him, then THAT is the most important conversation going on in his head.

      It would be negligent to NOT lead with the problem in that instance.

      Remember - people are twice as motivated to move away from pain, than they are towards pleasure.

      This guy is in REAL pain, and you want to butter him up with pleasantries?

      If you want to connect on his level, to let him know that he isn't alone, and that you understand his worries, and fears, and frustrations, then best talk about the elephant in the room.

      And by the way: Who said anything about bogging this guy down with negativity?

      I didn't.

      Of course we talk about how we can solve his problem. Of course we do. The solution is JUST as important as the problem. However, we use the 'problem' to get attention, because that's how our brains work, and then we introduce the solution to keep the attention.


      Besides, it's not negative to bring up a problem that exists.

      Either you're in the business of fixing problems, or in the business of making people feel warm and fuzzy. The latter is for most people in the self help industry. You know... making people feel good about their shit lives, but not actually helping them get out of it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Well the media in general now tends to have a political slant and a core audience they present the news in a certain way ..

    Now on a more agreeable note to what you are trying to say . The marketing for Viagra creaded the name erectile dysfunction .and then made sure to mention that erections lasting more than 4 hours require medical attention

    It is like every new cooking device info mercial .that does both solving a problem you may not have know you had and promises to turn you into a great cook at the touch of a button
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Well the media in general now tends to have a political slant and a core audience they present the news in a certain way ..

      Now on a more agreeable note to what you are trying to say . The marketing for Viagra creaded the name erectile dysfunction .and then made sure to mention that erections lasting more than 4 hours require medical attention

      It is like every new cooking device info mercial .that does both solving a problem you may not have know you had and promises to turn you into a great cook at the touch of a button

      Political = Problems

      Same difference mate.

      Just so we're on the same page: I wasn't 'trying' to say anything - I said categorically that problems get more attention than solutions, because problems DO get more attention than solutions. That's how the human brain works.

      I didn't say we should ONLY talk about problems, because I also mention that solutions are JUST as important as problems.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

        Political = Problems

        Same difference mate.

        Just so we're on the same page: I wasn't 'trying' to say anything - I said categorically that problems get more attention than solutions, because problems DO get more attention than solutions. That's how the human brain works.

        I didn't say we should ONLY talk about problems, because I also mention that solutions are JUST as important as problems.
        Just to add to discussion. Our reptile brains, on alert, NOTICE the different, unusual, out of place, movement, all while thinking it MAY be a problem. When it becomes acknowledged as the problem, then ACTION is quickly taken.

        I think some of this Oddah is splitting hairs, however, as a marketer, I like to position myself in the middle, collecting a toll from either direction.

        You have a problem. I have a solution.

        You have a solution, I have someone with a problem.

        I think the OP was right on. We seem to be parsing here, or, maybe not.

        But good discussion, getting rarer by the day here at WF.

        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Just to add to discussion. Our reptile brains, on alert, NOTICE the different, unusual, out of place, movement, all while thinking it MAY be a problem. When it becomes acknowledged as the problem, then ACTION is quickly taken.

          I think some of this Oddah is splitting hairs, however, as a marketer, I like to position myself in the middle, collecting a toll from either direction.

          You have a problem. I have a solution.

          You have a solution, I have someone with a problem.

          I think the OP was right on. We seem to be parsing here, or, maybe not.

          But good discussion, getting rarer by the day here at WF.

          GordonJ

          That's a good point Gordon.

          Being 'different' is so important these days if we want to get attention - and as you quite rightly pointed out - 'different' and 'unusual' are noticed by the brain ahead of 'normal' because those things are potential threats until deemed otherwise.

          Different = potential Problem
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        The
        Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

        Political = Problems

        Same difference mate.
        I
        Just so we're on the same page: I wasn't 'trying' to say anything - I said categorically that problems get more attention than solutions, because problems DO get more attention than solutions. That's how the human brain works.

        I didn't say we should ONLY talk about problems, because I also mention that solutions are JUST as important as problems.
        I guess it's just rear I mostly agree and try to throw out examples to high light a point haha

        And Gordon is right I was splitting hairs on the media point so my bad

        Now I am not stating fact more an observation and how I have seen this work is not just talking about the problem..but before offering a solution building an urgency to solve the problem ..or I mean somehow taking a problem that may be far down on the list
        Then highlight that it needs to be solved urgently ...before offering your solution .

        It depends on the audience I guess and a little clearty to me w from anyone who gets what I am saying haha or observing
        Adding
        And after a nights sleep I rember the basic description is problem aggitate solve
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        • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          The

          I guess it's just rear I mostly agree and try to throw out examples to high light a point haha

          And Gordon is right I was splitting hairs on the media point so my bad

          Now I am not stating fact more an observation and how I have seen this work is not just talking about the problem..but before offering a solution building an urgency to solve the problem ..or I mean somehow taking a problem that may be far down on the list
          Then highlight that it needs to be solved urgently ...before offering your solution .

          It depends on the audience I guess and a little clearty to me w from anyone who gets what I am saying haha or observing
          Adding
          And after a nights sleep I rember the basic description is problem aggitate solve

          Quite right, Odahh - even better, as you say, is to solve an 'urgent' problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    People are twice as motivated to move away from pain as they are to move towards pleasure.
    OK, but again it depends what you are selling. Certain things are extremely hard, if not impossible, to sell by citing pain.

    Let's say you sell vintage BMWs. People don't buy them to solve a problem or to get rid of pain. They don't even want to necessarily drive them or show them off! They buy them because they dream about this car as matching their idea of vehicular perfection.

    I once read an article about someone who sold Steinway grand pianos. Most of the time people had dreamed for years of owning a Steinway - sometimes as long as 10 years! It was hope and pleasure that motivated this purchase, not getting rid of some kind of pain in their life.

    All dreams start with a nightmare.

    And you're wrong when you say that it's the dream that motivates them.

    Nobody is motivated by a dream unless the dream is a better alternative to their life right now.
    The Steinway purchasers did not have a nightmare life. In fact, if they did it would be much less likely that they'd be able to afford one.

    It's not that their current piano is a nightmare, either.

    When someone aspires to enjoy a pleasure, it doesn't mean that their life without that pleasure is painful... unless you are making that true by definition. In which case it's a meaningless, empty point.

    Marcia Yudkin

    P.S. If you're interested in the Steinway salesperson, she's been called one of the 10 best salespeople of all time. Feast your mind on her press coverage:
    In the News Archives - Piano Matchmaker
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Interesting post. Thanks Marcia.
      : )

      Something I thought I would add is that some People are more motivated to move away from pain than they are to move towards pleasure. (I used to be like that some time ago and now I'm the opposite.) Maybe that expresses itself with certain Markets? Like you mentioned some Markets are about "pleasure"?

      2C.
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    So what is the deal here?

    Gotta figure there is a way cool cush point in zappin' out on the kinda pleasures Marcia SCHLOOMPS into this discussion.

    See, cos if'n you drivin' BMWs to the beach to hear piano myoosic, that is likely easiah on the sensorium than choosin' which loan shark to scar your face forevah.

    Gotta figure what matters here is POV of both seller & buyer, plus agreement 'bout the deal.

    That is why most decent loan sharks offer their special SUPER POSITIVE PLATINUM SERVICE with a smile gonna make Mack the Knife seem charitable.

    See, cos here's a plan says ... gimme my thousand bucks by Toosday an' mebbe ima withold my sadistic bloodlust means I gotta chop off your d*ck with a blunt vintage Sabatier.

    Meantime, down in Monsieur Le Gastronomique's 5-star Mee-shewer-lan restaurant, they servin' up raw reptile brains on the stomachs of natchrlly chubby trans IT geeks for like $1000 a throw -- an' that don't inclood use of the branded myoosical chopsticks or the perineal massage in the restroom if'n you ain't got wasted hips.

    Like their tagline says ...

    "Life buzzes like you're breathing honey"
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    Something I thought I would add is that some People are more motivated to move away from pain than they are to move towards pleasure. (I used to be like that some time ago and now I'm the opposite.) Maybe that expresses itself with certain Markets? Like you mentioned some Markets are about "pleasure"?
    Well, psychologist Abraham Maslow's theory of human nature says that people need to get all their basic needs satisfied (i.e. solve basic life problems) before they can pursue higher goals such as self-actualization (i.e. pleasure in the broadest sense of the word).

    That is an interesting connection that I would not have thought of without your question. Thanks!

    Still, even millionaires and billionaires have problems that you can pitch them on solving. So I'm not sure it's a stage of life issue so much as different kinds of items being pitched. Or a certain angle on what's being pitched.

    For example, take music. Some parents are sold on music lessons for their kids because they feel it will instill discipline in them or maybe help them get into a better college down the line. That is somewhat related to getting rid of pain. It's certainly not selling a dream.

    However, if I think about times when I spend money on music - sometimes quite a lot of money - there's no pain I'm trying to make go away and no problem being solved. I simply want to experience the one of the very best things that life has to offer. And that's how it would need to be sold to me. Twisting the situation to appeal to making a pain go away would be very weird and off-putting.

    ("Tired of out-of-tune soloists who can't reach the high notes with aplomb? That's why you should get tickets to so-and-so's next concert!" - NO.)

    The other day my husband called me into his office and gave me his computer headphones to listen to a 15-year-old Dutch girl singing an opera aria, who he had found by accident on Youtube. I listened, and within 20 seconds, tears were pouring down my cheeks. Her voice was so beautiful and sublime that we both stopped doing anything else and started researching who she was and how she got to that point. If you don't understand how experiences like these have nothing to do with making pain go away, then I feel sorry for your narrow and warped view of life.
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  • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
    I'll address the last few posts:

    It's funny to me how many people take everything either in black, or white. It's like they forget there are no one-sided coins.

    1) The context of my first post has now been officially obliterated. I never said people ONLY buy something to get out of pain. Nor did I say you should ALWAYS start with pain, in ALL situations.

    I simply said: Problems get more attention than solutions. That's it. And yes, it still stands. Nothing has changed on that front.

    2) Of course, people buy into certain things to move towards pleasure, and not to get out of pain. But you're failing to understand that 90% of the people on this here forum, where the thread was created by the way, are not selling Steinway's or vintage BMW's.

    3) Marcia - The fact you were in tears after just 20 seconds while listening to a beautiful song, prob'ly says more about 'sadness' than it does anything else. You sensed beauty in a world with so much ugliness. Of course, it could have just been awe-inspiring, but to cry after 20 seconds tells me that you have had suffering in your life, and beauty on that particular scale reminds you of that. I'm no Psychologist, but I'm pretty sure most Psychologists aren't either.

    4) I wouldn't be motivated by ANY 'pain' when buying music, either. Does that prove 'solutions' gets more attention than 'problems'?

    It doesn't, does it?

    Context, people. Context. No one-sided coins.

    5) The original post was to state that: Problems get more attention than solutions, because well, they just bloody do. It doesn't mean to lead with a problem 100% of the time. It just means that if ALL marketers just keep banging on about rainbow farting unicorns, and all the lovely benefits their products can give their customers, then quite simply, they are, in MOST cases, working against how the human brain works.

    Context people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Duncan it does come down to context .

      So yes newer marketers or marketers with lower price point products that can qualify as impulse purchases what you are saying works

      But many here are not newer marketers ..so rather than this section your post would have been great in the newbie section

      But neither you or Marcy is wrong

      And I am splitting hairs and using your words against you asi think it is what Marcy has been saying

      Context people

      Now this is my view and I am crazy but if you just want to talk about the problem .the other half or the majority .is that you also have to convince the customer the only effort they need to take to solve the problem is to hand you money
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    • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
      Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

      Problems get more attention than solutions.
      In whose Cosmos?

      As an optimist, I am heartened by Marcia's positive viewpoint.

      Call me a lame asshole, but I jus' wanna cruise out on my yogah mat, packin' all the serenity my mortally compromised frame can mustah while my relationship to gravity is broadly chosen.

      An' I could rise from this momentary slumber empowered to evidence miracles.

      Hey ... I feel so good, I could XXX.

      Tellya, I could mebbe feel so XXX I want MORE of this PAAAHsitive PAAAHsitive No Praaahblem All Benefit deal.

      An' anywan threatens my luxury gets slain.

      Anywan threatens TO THREATEN my luxury gets slain.

      So ima LIZARD BRAIN out on fascination with PRAAAHBLEMS steada SLOOSHINS..

      Hey -- I built my rewardin' sensorium up outta NUTHIN' -- an' nowan ain't grabbin' my luxury from outta my ass!

      Mebbe.

      For sure, hooman brains are especially responsive to stuff like DANGER an' CHANGE -- but they also flourish on chillout don't mean they invitin' oblivion by acknowledgin' from time to time ...

      Yeah, ima sorted AF. An' Nowan Gotta Die as a Consequence.
      Speshly Moi.


      Plus also, if this is a coupon offah, can I plz opt outta any crap?
      I confirm I am OK to house abused kittens, even if they pee on my panties.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Declan, I am afraid you are missong your own context: the title of your thread,
      talking about benefits may be costing you sales, influences how people view your first, secondand n-th post.

      The best approach is to stir a problem your prospect has, then offer whatever you are selling as a solution.

      If you do not stir the pain, you may get fewer sales; however, you cannot propose whatevet you are selling as a solution to your buyer's pain/dream without talking benefits.

      In other words, not talking benefits will cost you sales; more than if you do not stir the problem, I think.

      If a 60-year-old wants to run a matathon, he does not really have a problem, he has a desire. You can present your product as a solution to a problem, though. You can present it as a solution to fulfilling a dream, too.

      In either case, you clinch the sale by talking benefits.

      So, yes, people are moved to act more by pain than by pleasure, you need to talk benefits if you are going to make more sales.





      Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

      I'll address the last few posts:

      It's funny to me how many people take everything either in black, or white. It's like they forget there are no one-sided coins.

      1) The context of my first post has now been officially obliterated. I never said people ONLY buy something to get out of pain. Nor did I say you should ALWAYS start with pain, in ALL situations.

      I simply said: Problems get more attention than solutions. That's it. And yes, it still stands. Nothing has changed on that front.

      2) Of course, people buy into certain things to move towards pleasure, and not to get out of pain. But you're failing to understand that 90% of the people on this here forum, where the thread was created by the way, are not selling Steinway's or vintage BMW's.

      3) Marcia - The fact you were in tears after just 20 seconds while listening to a beautiful song, prob'ly says more about 'sadness' than it does anything else. You sensed beauty in a world with so much ugliness. Of course, it could have just been awe-inspiring, but to cry after 20 seconds tells me that you have had suffering in your life, and beauty on that particular scale reminds you of that. I'm no Psychologist, but I'm pretty sure most Psychologists aren't either.

      4) I wouldn't be motivated by ANY 'pain' when buying music, either. Does that prove 'solutions' gets more attention than 'problems'?

      It doesn't, does it?

      Context, people. Context. No one-sided coins.

      5) The original post was to state that: Problems get more attention than solutions, because well, they just bloody do. It doesn't mean to lead with a problem 100% of the time. It just means that if ALL marketers just keep banging on about rainbow farting unicorns, and all the lovely benefits their products can give their customers, then quite simply, they are, in MOST cases, working against how the human brain works.

      Context people.
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      • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        Declan, I am afraid you are missong your own context: the title of your thread,
        talking about benefits may be costing you sales, influences how people view your first, secondand n-th post.

        The best approach is to stir a problem your prospect has, then offer whatever you are selling as a solution.

        If you do not stir the pain, you may get fewer sales; however, you cannot propose whatevet you are selling as a solution to your buyer's pain/dream without talking benefits.

        In other words, not talking benefits will cost you sales; more than if you do not stir the problem, I think.

        If a 60-year-old wants to run a matathon, he does not really have a problem, he has a desire. You can present your product as a solution to a problem, though. You can present it as a solution to fulfilling a dream, too.

        In either case, you clinch the sale by talking benefits.

        So, yes, people are moved to act more by pain than by pleasure, you need to talk benefits if you are going to make more sales.

        I'm afraid I am NOT missing my own context. Not talking about problems IS costing sales. That's an inevitability. What I didn't say, is that it will ALWAYS cost you sales.
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          You mean, the title of your thread is not "Why talking about benefits may be costing you sales?"

          That your first post implies prople are only talking benefits all the time?

          That you had to add entries to clarify that you do not mean "it" happens all the time?

          That, in other words, your title and first post did not clearly convey your thinking?

          Stop being so defensive. I did not say you said it happens all the time, just that you did not say that in your thread starter and title, and that people responded to that.

          Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

          I'm afraid I am NOT missing my own context. Not talking about problems IS costing sales. That's an inevitability. What I didn't say, is that it will ALWAYS cost you sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    3) Marcia - The fact you were in tears after just 20 seconds while listening to a beautiful song, prob'ly says more about 'sadness' than it does anything else. You sensed beauty in a world with so much ugliness. Of course, it could have just been awe-inspiring, but to cry after 20 seconds tells me that you have had suffering in your life, and beauty on that particular scale reminds you of that. I'm no Psychologist, but I'm pretty sure most Psychologists aren't either.
    You couldn't be more wrong. Anyone who knows me knows that I am a happy, healthy person.

    People like me shed tears at beautiful music because it's the nearest thing on earth to encountering God. It has absolutely nothing to do with relief from suffering. Ditto with seeing a double rainbow all across the sky in Hawaii - tears of joy.

    I want to emphasize that this was not ordinary beautiful music. It was beautiful to the power of ten. Probably not more than two or three people alive on earth right now are capable of matching the beauty of that girl's voice.

    If you've never had experiences like that, I'm sorry to hear it. But to get back to the main topic, I'm far from the only person who gets motivated by beauty more than by solving pain, problems and suffering.
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    But you're failing to understand that 90% of the people on this here forum, where the thread was created by the way, are not selling Steinway's or vintage BMW's.
    Well, maybe they'd get results by taking a different tack from the problem-solving approach you recommend as being appropriate for the peons here by inviting their prospects to reach a dream they have.

    In fact, my most successful program ever ($795 at the time) was sold by connecting with the dream people have of earning passive income. I did not talk about the pain of not having that, because the people who filled my were not in any great pain that I could discern. They simply resonated with the picture I painted of, for instance, what it would be like to wake up in the morning and count the orders you got overnight. (And that I backed up with true anecdotes from my own experience and lifestyle.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      Well, maybe they'd get results by taking a different tack from the problem-solving approach you recommend as being appropriate for the peons here by inviting their prospects to reach a dream they have.

      In fact, my most successful program ever ($795 at the time) was sold by connecting with the dream people have of earning passive income. I did not talk about the pain of not having that, because the people who filled my were not in any great pain that I could discern. They simply resonated with the picture I painted of, for instance, what it would be like to wake up in the morning and count the orders you got overnight. (And that I backed up with true anecdotes from my own experience and lifestyle.)

      Good for you Marcia.

      Your prospects are more motivated to wake up to more sales. Wow. They must be so lucky someone out there understands them

      I bet no one understands them more than you do, eh?

      Pretty sure ALL your competitors (peeps in same space) are promising exactly the same thing, right?

      Could you make MORE sales if you understood the 'reason' (pain - problem) why they aren't getting that at the moment?
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    Could you make MORE sales if you understood the 'reason' (pain - problem) why they aren't getting that at the moment?
    I agree that for some sorts of products and services, a pain/problem focused pitch will get better results.

    However, I am quite sure that is not true across the board. As I've said previously - and this is the last time I'll repeat it - for some items, you need to connect with people's hopes, dreams, aspirations and pleasures.

    It is not relevant to the buyers why they have those hopes, dreams, etc. and they are not conscious of any underlying pain when they buy.

    For example, craft beer and fine wine: for connoisseurs, these are simply higher quality, giving them greater pleasure and distinctive sensory experiences than other beer or wine.

    For example, resorts usually charge more for units with a view, because they provide greater pleasure and fit better with people's image of what they want to enjoy when on vacation. A room without a view, however, is not painful and is not a problem that needs a solution.

    For example, language learning apps: For some people, not knowing a language is a problem for them and they need it, asap and as easily as possible, to reach some other goal that matters to them, like getting a better job, integrating into society or being able to speak with their grandchildren. In those instances, a pain-focused pitch would be appropriate. But there are many others (like myself) for whom language learning is simply a pleasure and a goal (I've learned 7 or 8) and not related to any pain or problem. For those people, connecting with their excitement about understanding a different world, mastering something challenging and gaining access to a different culture would be the way to sell a language app.

    For example, novels: it's true that there are some people who buy books to impress others or to fill up their living room bookshelves attractively, but these are the minority. For most people, the appeal of reading is being swept away by captivating characters and engaging plots. Reading can even create problems for them, as when they can't stop reading at bedtime and are tired the next day when they get to work because the novel was so good. But you can't sell particular novels as a cure for some problem or pain.

    For example, tools: You might think this would be the quintessential example of a purely functional purchase, people buying a particular tool to solve a particular problem. But then how do you explain people who simply love tools buying complete sets of tools that include many tools they know quite well they will never need or use? I don't see how you'd sell that kind of item with a pain-focused pitch. There's a pleasure of ownership that doesn't come down to problem-solving or eliminating pain.

    Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post


      For example, tools: You might think this would be the quintessential example of a purely functional purchase, people buying a particular tool to solve a particular problem. But then how do you explain people who simply love tools buying complete sets of tools that include many tools they know quite well they will never need or use? I don't see how you'd sell that kind of item with a pain-focused pitch. There's a pleasure of ownership that doesn't come down to problem-solving or eliminating pain.

      Marcia Yudkin
      The point, which I somehow have to keep driving home: Is that the human brain pays more attention to problems than it does solutions - and if you lead with the problem instead of the benefits more often, you would get more attention.

      That was the point. It still stands. It's still true. And it doesn't change because in a smaller number of situations the solution can work better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Medon
    Sure, the most successful people in the world are those who have found solutions to problems. The Microsoft, Dell, Einstein, Google ...... have all made money through their inventions. So any news that promises a solution to a problem is worth listening to. Marketers can succeed if they explain the solutions their products will offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
    DABK: The title of the thread is fine, and the post... doesn't need to be clarified.

    That's ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Don't wanna figure POV beyond noplace uthah than my own sweet braino ... but as a confirmed aaahptimist, I would always wanna see value in this kinda stuff ...

    For example, craft beer and fine wine: for connoisseurs, these are simply higher quality, giving them greater pleasure and distinctive sensory experiences than other beer or wine.

    See, cos I got a time-limited sensorium I no way want fillin' up with no kinda crap.

    Plus ... wine.

    What narratives exist as might diminish such exotica as fruitsome yumminess open to all?

    (Whatevah they are, I ain't writin' 'em -- even if Rotties chomp on my flaps.)

    An' as a benevolent consoomer of all life's glories, I would wanna figure max juicy in my maw so I could max juicy my diligently otherpersumly mwahmwahmwahstuffs gonna mebbe help sumone else along as we step out between us into what is effectively POTENTIAL OBLIVION like we in a Disney movie ain't gonna shine from offa Terra Firma like mebbe the DEAD ROCK / FLOURISHISMO combeau kinda hints at.

    Praaahblem I have rn is how potential for consoomer choice may no longer sync with my particular sensa optimism.

    Seems we all optin' into Gently Pulsin' Apocalypse rn -- even if we so stoopid no marketin' reacheth our ass.

    Thing is, anywan buys crap gotta be enslaved sumhow.

    Anywan writes for the f*cker gotta be delooded into the bargain also.

    Gotta remembah, we alla us take steps on out into the fyootyoore based on where we frickin' at -- not noplace nowan else says we are.

    Prolly I could rewrite misery so it drips from offa sumone's tits like hunny.

    An' mebbe there be desperados gonna lick on that kinda suck.

    Dollars hollers cholers schmollers.

    Yanno what?

    ima smilin' I am Moi rn.

    I got a mid-range microwave don't delivah perfect dinnah parties -- but that is only cos I such a KLUTZ.

    Deliverables-R-Moi Gal says ... quit dumpin' your dumbass marketin' PRAAAHBLEMS on my tits bcs I busy.

    GO AWAY!

    GO AWAY!

    GO AWAY!
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    Thing is, anywan buys crap gotta be enslaved sumhow.

    Anywan writes for the f*cker gotta be delooded into the bargain also.

    Gotta remembah, we alla us take steps on out into the fyootyoore based on where we frickin' at -- not noplace nowan else says we are.
    That is really precious! Thanks for the laugh.
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    • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      That is really precious! Thanks for the laugh.
      "O to be petals
      kissed by lips,
      steada deliverables
      of the Apocalypse!"

      (I paraphrasin' Medoosa here fore'n the press-ganged sales guy called & flashed his BLING.)

      (But that ain't actschwlly funnay less'n nowan says it is, I guess.)

      (An' I DO say btw -- so quit lookin' so STONY FACED anywan readin' this all kinda STONY FACED. Whaddya want? Total Dom?)
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  • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
    Judging by a lot of the answers above, and people trying to convince themselves that 'solutions' are the way to get attention ahead of 'problems' - a NEW question would be...

    Do you think that starting with a 'problem' is a negative way to start a conversation with your prospects?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

    Judging by a lot of the answers above, and people trying to convince themselves that 'solutions' are the way to get attention ahead of 'problems' - a NEW question would be...

    Do you think that starting with a 'problem' is a negative way to start a conversation with your prospects?
    First, let say that your original post is a good post. Actually, a very good post and kindly appreciated.

    From experience I have learned the best way is to simply lead with a problem and combine a benefit with a final solution all in one short and direct sentence or bullet points in a short list.

    In that way I attract attention and push the benefit and solution, I have also learned that the attention span of the majority (keyword = majority) of my prospects that land on my landing page is very low, so by combining everything I have learned that the attention span problem is no longer a problem and results in the majority of opt-ins and sales.

    The keyword is: majority. When I use the word 'majority' in the copy it conveys (even if subliminal) the solution (the sell) affected a greater number of solution seekers.

    With that said I have a different assessment of:

    Problems = Get Attention
    Solutions = Keep Attention

    My assessment is:

    Problems = Get Attention
    Benefits = Keep Attention
    Solutions = Solves the problem
    Note: Not in specific order

    Call to Action = Gets my desire result i.e. an opt-in or sale


    To better explain myself I'll use a short example that applies to an landing page about Acne:


    Get rid of acne and get a pretty complexion with product x.


    Now, my assessment is just my own based on my years of capturing leads and sells. There are of course different products where my assessment does not apply.


    Very good discussion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post


      My assessment is:

      Problems = Get Attention
      Benefits = Keep Attention
      Solutions = Solves the problem
      Note: Not in specific order

      Call to Action = Gets my desire result i.e. an opt-in or sale

      To better explain myself I'll use a short example that applies to an landing page about Acne:

      Get rid of acne and get a pretty complexion with product x.

      Now, my assessment is just my own based on my years of capturing leads and sells. There are of course different products where my assessment does not apply.

      Very good discussion.

      How's things Jeffrey?

      Good points, and one's I agree with completely.

      As for problems and solutions - I use the word solution to mean a benefit, not just solving the problem itself, but showing the benefits.

      So yes...
      Problems = Get Attention
      Benefits = Keep Attention
      Solutions = Solves the problem

      The last two - 'benefits' and 'solution' - were meant to be the same thing in my post. Getting (problem) and keeping (solution - benefits) attention.

      However, laying out in 3 stages like you have, actually does make it clearer. Good stuff. I like that.

      I think many thought I was the "twist the knife" kind of guy who likes to play on people's fears.

      That's not what I meant at all.

      To know our prospects well, is to understand what they are running from. Not necessarily what they are running to (solution) but why they are doing it. This requires far deeper research than just coming up with another cookie-cutter 'Earn 10k a Month" headline.

      Have a good one mate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Meir Ben Hadar
    I liked that post, BUT -
    I find it rather sad...

    because what you mean in this post is that all human kind is busy
    with finding the bad stuff...and not focusing on the good stuff.

    I hope we were in a different perspective world but that's just the way it is.

    So in conclusion - you are 100% right
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    • Profile picture of the author Declan O Flaherty
      Originally Posted by Meir Ben Hadar View Post

      I liked that post, BUT -
      I find it rather sad...

      because what you mean in this post is that all human kind is busy
      with finding the bad stuff...and not focusing on the good stuff.

      I hope we were in a different perspective world but that's just the way it is.

      So in conclusion - you are 100% right
      ...Or it could be a 'good' thing considering we grow from pain and wither from comfort.

      Anthony de Mello would say that 'problems' are wonderful. How else can one grow if not out of pain and discomfort?

      Thrills and Desires feel good, but they lead to depression and anxiety.

      Pain and Discomfort feel bad, but they lead to growth and fulfillment.

      How many people are suffering today because they want to feel good all the time?

      How many people live quite, desperate lives because they are too afraid to face their fears and instead run from them?

      How many people are unsuccessful because they choose to stay inside their comfort zone?

      How many people choose Instant Gratification (feeling good right now) over Delayed Gratification (feeling shitty right now) and suffer their whole lives because of it?

      How many people would wish for world peace if they had a magic lamp? And how ignorant are those people to believe you can have peace without suffering?

      There are no one-sided coins. You can't have growth without suffering. You can't have solutions without problems. You can't have life without death.

      Evolution is course correction.

      I'm rambling.

      Have a good one mate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I am inebiated writing thins so maybe it should get deleted but

    If you want to make money drawing attention to people's problem there is 1000 times more money in selling them something that will make them feel better about the problem than actually solve the problem .

    A figure I read from Dan Kennedy many times is that 95 percent of people barly even open the package

    And about 99 percent of the pharmisutical industry is dependent on life long treatment verses curing the problem.

    And I could probably list many many more examples

    So Duncan you are right to point out focusing on problems first is better than benefits .

    But it is far easier far more profitable and there is a far larger audience for selling people ways to feel better about those problems than actually solve those problems .

    So this might sound horrible but there is just so much more money to be made selling people ways to feel better about the problems they have rather than solving those problems .

    Economists have this theoretical human that doesn't exist called homo ecnonicus .. and this form want to talk about making money without going into how 96 percent of how money is made on this planet

    And I am done for now .
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    • So this might sound horrible but there is just so much more money to be made selling people ways to feel better about the problems they have rather than solving those problems .

      -----------------------

      The self helpless industry is built on making people feel great about their miserable lives, but after that initial 'feel good' moment subsides - when reality kicks back in - those people are still in the exact same place they started from.

      So yes, that statement you made is arguably true across the board.

      I don't see how it has anything to do with the point of the thread here though.

      Problems = Get Attention

      Solutions = Keep Attention

      You can sell the solution all day long, but you first have to get the attention - and the human brain 'naturally' pays more attention to problems rather than solutions.

      Jay Abraham said 'He who knows the problem best, wins'

      And that's the preeminence guy saying that.

      I certainly wouldn't recommend talking about problems all the time. But I would recommend introducing the problem first, and then introducing the solution. To introduce the problem you must know the problem well, and to know the problem well, is to know your prospect well, and that is always the best place to start.

      That will lead to far more sales, in most cases, than just leading with your solution, which tends to be product heavy anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

        The self helpless industry is built on making people feel great about their miserable lives, but after that initial 'feel good' moment subsides - when reality kicks back in - those people are still in the exact same place they started from.
        Sometimes that's true. However personally I have learned a great deal about Life, Success, and Business from the "Self-Help/Personal Development" niche. In fact it has completely changed my Life. : ) Just thought I would add that in there,

        P.S.
        For some Markets talking about the "problem" first/moving them from "pain" (etc.) would be the best strategy ... When in other Markets the opposite approach would be best.

        For example one of the most successful Direct Mail Letters of all time (for The Wall Street Journal) was "The Two Men Letter." Viz:

        https://carlwestonmarketing.files.wo...et-journal.pdf
        No talking about "pain" (etc.) ... Just good Copywriting.
        : )
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        • Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Sometimes that's true. However personally I have learned a great deal about Life, Success, and Business from the "Self-Help/Personal Development" niche. In fact it has completely changed my Life. : ) Just thought I would add that in there
          I know Jonathan, so have I learned a lot from that stuff. In fact, I spent 2 years in that market teaching people how to better their lives. I left after that because I saw it was a waste of time. People don't take action. They just absorb the 'feel-good shit day after day but never actually improve.

          Since we both have our own businesses, it's fair to say we aren't the average, the norm, the majority. You know what I mean?

          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          For some Markets talking about the "problem" first/moving them from "pain" (etc.) would be the best strategy ... When in other Markets the opposite approach would be best.
          I would say it's better in some cases to lead with the solution (benefits) and better in most cases to lead with the problem. You're right though, it does depend. I certainly make buying decisions on some products and services for pleasure.

          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          For example one of the most successful Direct Mail Letters of all time (for The Wall Street Journal) was "The Two Men Letter." Viz:

          https://carlwestonmarketing.files.wo...et-journal.pdf
          No talking about "pain" (etc.) ... Just good Copywriting.
          True. I could show countless other successful direct mail pieces that start with the problem, though.

          "Do You Make These Mistakes in English" is a 'problem- based headline.

          "Why French Women Don't Get Fat" is also a fantastic headline/title that starts with a problem.

          It's worth noting again, that I'm saying it might be better to 'start with the problem. I didn't say we should just talk about the problem, or twist the knife, or anything.

          The two headlines above are a good example of starting with the problem. However, there are plenty of incredibly successful headlines that start with benefits.


          It's also worth noting that my signature blurb below is 'solution based. So it's not that I think we should always start with the problem. I'm just pointing out that it's worth considering that since the human brain naturally pays more attention to problems ahead of solutions, then it's a smart move to think through what you start with, rather than just going straight in with the benefits without even considering there might be a better approach. Because as we know, marketers on the whole tend to go straight to the benefits without even considering that the piece might be better if it started with a problem.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty View Post

            True. I could show countless other successful direct mail pieces that start with the problem, though.

            "Do You Make These Mistakes in English" is a 'problem- based headline.

            "Why French Women Don't Get Fat" is also a fantastic headline/title that starts with a problem.
            Good point. : ) And some great examples of your premise.
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  • Profile picture of the author JUnderwood
    Most on this forum seeks success. Maybe not on such a scale as Apple or Microsoft. Nevertheless, everyone wants to be successful. Just successful people never stopped at a loss.
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    • Originally Posted by JUnderwood View Post

      Most on this forum seeks success. Maybe not on such a scale as Apple or Microsoft. Nevertheless, everyone wants to be successful. Just successful people never stopped at a loss.

      It's simple - take a look at most of the threads created by people who you say are searching for success - and notice how they always start with a problem.


      Forums, at their core, are where people go to find answers to their problems.
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