[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I saw that and don't understand a lockdown 'for 3 days'....'starting at 11:59 PM'.


Doesn't get more exact than that - but why '3 days'?

I was wondering the same when the quarantines are typically 10-14 days depending on the country.

Mark

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I was wondering the same when the quarantines are typically 10-14 days depending on the country.

Mark

Maybe during that 3 days the government will try to trace who the one man was in contact with....or maybe even get large numbers of people in his area tested.

But 3 days seems more like something is being done rapidly. At least to me.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Kay King

What a difference a few years make - if the tobacco issue were this year I'm sure it WOULD be 'political' - because everything is now whether it makes sense or not.

Blame Facebook and Twitter for everything being political.

There is a whole lot of things we should enjoy now while we can before the government can borrow any more money because there is simply no where to borrow it from

The crisis caused by the pandemic allowed most governments to go into more debt to too whoever is willing to lend trillions and get 0 interest .

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/17/a...hnk/index.html

Locking down an entire country because of one case = overkill or smart? Your thoughts?

Mark

Time will tell... Thinking that "Herd Immunity" will come from those that have had the Virus, vs those that get vaccinated, and Australia will be struggling for years. India sitting at 9% vaccinated, "in theory" will play out the opposite way.

From the "Science" that I have read, it is a matter of haves and have nots. Those that have had the virus, and then everyone else. But we are so far beyond the point of actually understanding the actual number of cases and those with natural immunity that we will never know.

[AlexandraBelli]

Very informative thread related to coronavirus. I am also a medical professional and I see that most of the forum members are professional and discuss right things.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Odahh

Blame Facebook and Twitter for everything being political.

There is a whole lot of things we should enjoy now while we can before the government can borrow any more money because there is simply no where to borrow it from

The crisis caused by the pandemic allowed most governments to go into more debt to too whoever is willing to lend trillions and get 0 interest .

Politics and ideology play a strong role in my country and State. But suffice to say, Victorians have endured endless lockdowns, and are at breaking point, or are reaching a state when, self preservation and sanity take precedence over stupid rules.

Not allowing children to play in a park is one, that has zero science behind, and countless people, desperate for a means of wearing their children down, are just grinding the chairs and opening it up. Time will tell whether mass disobedience takes over, but humans for good or bad can only take so much, and regardless of cases or deaths, won't give a damn anymore.

(mod edit)

[ExRat]

Hi,

I just read through the most recent pages on here, there are some very interesting responses. I thought I'd throw in my recent experience to the mix, just in case it might help anyone.

I am just over 50, no health issues, very fit. My decision not to get vaccinated was based on the appalling manner in which the UK government and their associates in SAGE and other health bodies had dealt with this pandemic.

The on/off lockdown has been extremely mentally challenging, not least because every time they changed their plan, they made a new set of promises, which they then went on to promptly break. It has been impossible to make any plans for anything - life, business etc - thanks to the shambolic performance and behaviour of our leaders.

This had caused huge problems in my business life and pretty much brought things to a standstill. My way of dealing with the utter frustration of all of this clearly avoidable devastation was to throw myself into a fully committed personal fitness regime.

Unfortunately, I took things too far and a few weeks ago, I think overtraining led to me actually bringing down my usually robust immune system. After a couple of days of severe muscle pain and exhaustion, I started to suspect I had covid. I got tested and found this to be the case.

I think I have been lucky and only picked up a smaller dose. I also feel lucky that now I am recovering, I don't seem to have too much long term damage. I do have lung damage, which means that I am having to try and build up my lungs very slowly. At the moment the most exercise I can do is slow walking and the slightest incline makes me breathless.

My eyesight worsened while I was ill, but thankfully this has reversed. As I said, I feel lucky when I read about what happens to some people, in hospital, on ventilators, dying.

But at the same time I would describe the two weeks when I was ill as a horrific experience. I could barely sleep and had to sit upright to avoid breathing issues. I lost my appetite and barely ate for a week. The sleep deprivation and lack of food were the exact opposite of what I needed to recover. I could barely manage to do any of the things that would have helped to pass time, like reading or watching TV so it meant that the insomnia was like a form of slow torture.

At times I wondered if the virus was intelligent and was trying to send me loopy, because once one symptom eased off, another seemed to come along and poke the other side of me, I'm not sure if it was the food thing sending me into keto, but I had covid tongue which gave me a bad taste in my mouth all of the time which also made me feel a little nauseus. I had the hot sweats and then the cold chills which also wasn't very nice. I stll get the hot flushes now, but it is not as severe and feels different.

In summary, I feel lucky that I have my taste and smell, I am not bedbound and I am grateful for 1001 other things when I read about how this thing has affected other people. I try to be a glass half full person and grateful for small mercies. But I do feel that this experience has changed me somewhat - made me more fearful - and the whole of the last two years has made me question everything I thought I knew.

I don't feel like I understand the world I live in much at all now and I have absolutely no idea what the future holds for us all. I don't know who to trust, but I do know that I find it very hard to trust anyone at all in authority because in this country we have been so badly let down, I don't know what the solution is except for a complete clearout - and that's not likely to happen. Good luck to you all, I hope this helps somehow. Be careful out there.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi,

I just read through the most recent pages on here, there are some very interesting responses. I thought I'd throw in my recent experience to the mix, just in case it might help anyone.

I am just over 50, no health issues, very fit. My decision not to get vaccinated was based on the appalling manner in which the UK government and their associates in SAGE and other health bodies had dealt with this pandemic.

The on/off lockdown has been extremely mentally challenging, not least because every time they changed their plan, they made a new set of promises, which they then went on to promptly break. It has been impossible to make any plans for anything - life, business etc - thanks to the shambolic performance and behaviour of our leaders.

This had caused huge problems in my business life and pretty much brought things to a standstill. My way of dealing with the utter frustration of all of this clearly avoidable devastation was to throw myself into a fully committed personal fitness regime.

Unfortunately, I took things too far and a few weeks ago, I think overtraining led to me actually bringing down my usually robust immune system. After a couple of days of severe muscle pain and exhaustion, I started to suspect I had covid. I got tested and found this to be the case.

I think I have been lucky and only picked up a smaller dose. I also feel lucky that now I am recovering, I don't seem to have too much long term damage. I do have lung damage, which means that I am having to try and build up my lungs very slowly. At the moment the most exercise I can do is slow walking and the slightest incline makes me breathless.

My eyesight worsened while I was ill, but thankfully this has reversed. As I said, I feel lucky when I read about what happens to some people, in hospital, on ventilators, dying.

But at the same time I would describe the two weeks when I was ill as a horrific experience. I could barely sleep and had to sit upright to avoid breathing issues. I lost my appetite and barely ate for a week. The sleep deprivation and lack of food were the exact opposite of what I needed to recover. I could barely manage to do any of the things that would have helped to pass time, like reading or watching TV so it meant that the insomnia was like a form of slow torture.

At times I wondered if the virus was intelligent and was trying to send me loopy, because once one symptom eased off, another seemed to come along and poke the other side of me, I'm not sure if it was the food thing sending me into keto, but I had covid tongue which gave me a bad taste in my mouth all of the time which also made me feel a little nauseus. I had the hot sweats and then the cold chills which also wasn't very nice. I stll get the hot flushes now, but it is not as severe and feels different.

In summary, I feel lucky that I have my taste and smell, I am not bedbound and I am grateful for 1001 other things when I read about how this thing has affected other people. I try to be a glass half full person and grateful for small mercies. But I do feel that this experience has changed me somewhat - made me more fearful - and the whole of the last two years has made me question everything I thought I knew.

I don't feel like I understand the world I live in much at all now and I have absolutely no idea what the future holds for us all. I don't know who to trust, but I do know that I find it very hard to trust anyone at all in authority because in this country we have been so badly let down, I don't know what the solution is except for a complete clearout - and that's not likely to happen. Good luck to you all, I hope this helps somehow. Be careful out there.

Thanks for sharing!


Your first paragraphs like many here who took that position last year focused primarily on the inconvenience of lockdowns and the economy.


Nothing about science. That is amazing to me.


People with kids depending on them. People in high risk demographics.


Talking about robust immune systems with a global death toll of 4.5 Million and 271 Million cases that we know of.

[Content added later deleted by moderator]

Glad you still in the game.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Your first paragraphs like many here who took that position last year focused primarily on the inconvenience of lockdowns and the economy.

No. You're misinterpreting what he said. He was referring to the "on/off" lockdown and the many changes of courses/U-turns made by those in authority.

So sorry to hear of your condition, Rog. Wishing you a full recovery.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

No. You're misinterpreting what he said. He was referring to the "on/off" lockdown and the many changes of courses/U-turns made by those in authority.

So sorry to hear of your condition, Rog. Wishing you a full recovery.

Why would that be a variable for your personal health decisions? Are politicians doctors?


Lock downs are in place because of a contagion.

[Profit Traveler]

I like watching thriller movies and figuring out how to survive them.

They have "Recap" Y.T. Channels and "Endings explained" Channels that are almost as good as seeing the actual movie! Only the best scenes.

In A Quiet Place 2 lot's of great special effects and action scenes.

And they figured out how to combat the menace.

It was adapt and increase chances of survival or it was check out time.

Only 2 choices.

And even adapt and survive had terrible odds. Great movie.

I guess it was a happy ending....if you do not focus on the ones who did not make it.

[Claude Whitacre]

Well Boys and Girls...

As of today..August 31, .in the US...

The daily numbers on a 7 day running average...

New daily cases in the US; 158,946

Hospitalized daily; 12,297.

New daily deaths; 1,348

74% of adults have had at least one shot.

The CDC says that if you are unvaccinated, you have a 15 times greater chance of dying from Covid, if you test positive. That means that the unvaccinated people are accounting for the vast majority of the deaths, and the unvaccinated adults only make up 26% of the population of the US.

So...based on these numbers..

If you are sick enough to be hospitalized with Covid, there is a slightly greater than 10% chance you won't survive. Remember, this includes the vaccinated as well as the unvaccinated. And the unvaccinated have a 15 times greater chance of being one of the unlucky ones.

There is a slightly less than 1% chance that if you test positive...it's fatal. This is taking all age ranges 18 and over.

And this is with a small percentage of the positive cases already having the vaccine. Which mean the unvaccinated are taking the brunt of this.

Here's a striking article from the CDC about the Delta variant.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...a-variant.html

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Why would that be a variable for your personal health decisions? Are politicians doctors?

Lock downs are in place because of a contagion.

Yeah, we all need to think happy thoughts, apparently. But where l live, there is little of that, since politics and ideology run our leaders, and Victorians are starting to crack.

Had a muzzled up guy approach me while l was carrying the shopping back, throwing expletives out and about, only because of the mask thing.

I threw one back, and walked off, as l am under no obligation to show this one my exemption.

He also mumbled something about "we will find out where you live", and "you will get yours" whatever that means?

Based on actual science, and actual experts, l don't see any serious obstacles..

[Kay King]

Saw a news blip this morning that said Australia was removing the restrictions they had just added.


Said the public was strongly against them - surprise!



Is that true where you live, Shane?


I think in most regions we are at the point where if you remain unvaccinated you are on your own. It's not fair to require other people to take precautions of distancing or closure or masks to protect you...that seems to be where public opinion is headed now.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Saw a news blip this morning that said Australia was removing the restrictions they had just added.

Said the public was strongly against them - surprise!

Is that true where you live, Shane?

I think in most regions we are at the point where if you remain unvaccinated you are on your own. It's not fair to require other people to take precautions of distancing or closure or masks to protect you...that seems to be where public opinion is headed now.

"It will be modest changes that hopefully can be meaningful in people's lives."

This is from a channel9 link that l won't post here without the go ahead, as it is political, but was updated today.

So it is wait and see, but l am not hoping for anything substantial.

But the public in my state are so fed up, the Delta virus is not at the top of our lists anymore, or keeping our jobs or businesses and keeping our sanity ranks higher.

I figure that the rally tomorrow, won't be pretty Kay, so much so, the world will probably see it.

We have endured about 2 years of lockdowns, on and off, and are going from passive to aggressive, regardless of it being good or bad.

[Kay King]

Won't be 2 years for a few months yet - but sometimes it feels like 10.


Read the article below - would you say it is correct from what you've seen?


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/h...-mess-n1277426

[Princess Balestra]

Soon be time to get started back on drinkin' usselves to death or contractin' way bizarre genital pustules from sleepin' with horses.

An' mebbe we could all resoom shootin' one anothah for reasons beyond imminent species oblivion.

"Why you pointin' that rifle at me? I been vaxed, an' I ain't contagious."

"Yeah, mebbe so, pal — but I jus' don't the look of your frickin' face is all."

"You sayin' I got a face like a HORSE?"

"I did not."

"As in the WHY THE LONG FACE joke?"

"I never heard it."

"Aw, yeah sure you ain't. So here it is again. Horse goes into a bar. Bar guy says WHY THE LONG FACE. I get that ALL THE TIME ... and there is NO EVIDENT REASON ... so watch your step, pal."

"Hey, fine. No need to get touchy. But I remember the joke now. Doesn't the horse DO something to get the bar guy so angry?"

"Now you're really pissin' me. The whole point is that the horse can do NOTHING. I can do NOTHING. Don't you see? Everywhere I go, it's always the SAME PERSECUTION"

An' here's where they fight ovah the gun.

Smart virus woulda taken 'em both out equal if'n we ain't been so sciency clevah.

So now our conflict points an' zones gonna border out down to less exotically visible regulah.

Which means, I guess, we gotta re-pernicketify our aims & goals an' cush for the 2022 era less'n we look way stoopid an' act observably dumbah.

[lanfear63]

Well, I am now fully Vaxed with Moderna. I left it quite a while wishing to see what was the best one to take. Moderna seems to give you the most protection.

The first injection, "painless", resulted in an arm ache for a day or so and a few other minor aches. The second, where they give you twice as much again in terms of vaccine resulted in 24 hours of an all over body ache. It then receded. A friend of mine, her daughter and husband all had aches and flu like symptoms which lasted 24 hours.

A friend from my ex work, her 18 year old son got covid and passed it on to her. Her son has lost his sense of taste and smell, my friend has a sore throat and coughing a lot and had a fever last night. They were unvaccinated.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Well, I an now fully Vaxed with Moderna. I left it quite a while wishing to see what was the best one to take. Moderna seems to give you the most protection.

The first injection, "painless", resulted in an arm ache for a day or so and a few other minor aches. The second, where they give you twice as much again in terms of vaccine resulted in 24 hours of an all over body ache. It then receded. A friend of mine, her daughter and husband all had aches and flu like symptoms which lasted 24 hours.

A friend from my ex work, her 18 year old son got covid and passed it on to her. Her son has lost his sense of taste and smell, my friend has a sore throat and coughing a lot and had a fever last night. They were unvaccinated.

Moderna here too. The first shot was really nothing. The second shot gave me a mild fever the next day and some chills, then nothing.

I'm glad you were vaccinated.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Moderna here too. The first shot was really nothing. The second shot gave me a mild fever the next day and some chills, then nothing.

I'm glad you were vaccinated.

I'm glad you were to. It's just not the same using an Ouija board to insult someone. Now we are hopefully free to die of something else less painful like extreme old age.

[Kay King]

I reached a point several years ago when I realized i am not going to die young....one less thing to worry about....


In the US, the govt may not have the power to mandate vaccines - so it's doing the next best thing. Feds are 'urging' businesses to require vaccination as a condition of employment and many companies are signing on to that.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well Boys and Girls...

As of today..August 31, .in the US...

The daily numbers on a 7 day running average...

New daily cases in the US; 158,946

Hospitalized daily; 12,297.

New daily deaths; 1,348

74% of adults have had at least one shot.

The CDC says that if you are unvaccinated, you have a 15 times greater chance of dying from Covid, if you test positive. That means that the unvaccinated people are accounting for the vast majority of the deaths, and the unvaccinated adults only make up 26% of the population of the US.

So...based on these numbers..

If you are sick enough to be hospitalized with Covid, there is a slightly greater than 10% chance you won't survive. Remember, this includes the vaccinated as well as the unvaccinated. And the unvaccinated have a 15 times greater chance of being one of the unlucky ones.

There is a slightly less than 1% chance that if you test positive...it's fatal. This is taking all age ranges 18 and over.

And this is with a small percentage of the positive cases already having the vaccine. Which mean the unvaccinated are taking the brunt of this.

Here's a striking article from the CDC about the Delta variant.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...a-variant.html

If you look at something like this: ( https://www.science.org/news/2021/08...t-defeat-delta ) and the percentage of vaccinated vs non vaccinated being 50% the 17:1 ratio gets thrown out the door with the bathwater.

It ends up being one of a few ways... the 17:1 ratio is a lie. People that have the "vaccine" are 17X more likely to place themselves in a situation of high transmission ( very likely )

Forget the numbers.. and personally I know far more people that have had the shot in the hospital than I do people that have not had the shot. Be very clear here, my "circle of influence" is overwhelmingly filled with people that have not had the shot - I would say MOST have already had Covid being the primary reason for this. So for me to know more with the shot in the hospital is saying something.

Again read that article... it is an eye opener. At the very least the "Truth" falls in the middle... but I am more likely to believe the article I linked vs anything the CDC might state at this point.

The bottom line is the "Vaccine" is not as effective as they may have wished. I could go into the whole numbers and data thing on the fact that its not just non effective against the Delta Variant, but ALL variants. The ideal situation would have been "vaccinated" to minimize the effect of contracting Covid, and the longer this is stretching out the more clear that is not even the case.

To bring this to scale a bit, just look at the WV numbers: ( https://www.wvnstv.com/community/hea...west-virginia/ ) scroll down a bit and you will see a number breakdown of cases by county. There is a number, and then there is a number in parentheses. The number in parentheses is the number of Delta Cases. No where near even close to a majority of cases... and then at the top look at the accumulative numbers and understand the majority of this is NOT Delta...

This is NOT just happening in WV, this is a pattern that is pretty consistent from State to State. Delta aint all that... Delta is not the problem... The fact that breakthrough cases are happening regardless of variant is the issue. THIS is fact. All of the DELTA DELTA DELTA we see everywhere is a bunch of BS Its Narrative, Its Propaganda, its straight up misinformation... Its sad.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Won't be 2 years for a few months yet - but sometimes it feels like 10.

Read the article below - would you say it is correct from what you've seen?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/h...-mess-n1277426

"And I think it led to a level of complacency, both within the government and among the public. ... Now, it's all a mess."

He may see it as a mess, but we, just to put this into context, we had a nasty flu in 2019, with 39 deaths per day for two weeks straight, no lockdowns, or anything else, but put a Covid label on it, it is Armageddon.

The ;public take the precautions they have always taken, and the politicians make up rules.

2 years, sorry l meant 200.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Well, I am now fully Vaxed with Moderna. I left it quite a while wishing to see what was the best one to take. Moderna seems to give you the most protection.

The first injection, "painless", resulted in an arm ache for a day or so and a few other minor aches. The second, where they give you twice as much again in terms of vaccine resulted in 24 hours of an all over body ache. It then receded. A friend of mine, her daughter and husband all had aches and flu like symptoms which lasted 24 hours.

A friend from my ex work, her 18 year old son got covid and passed it on to her. Her son has lost his sense of taste and smell, my friend has a sore throat and coughing a lot and had a fever last night. They were unvaccinated.

Yeah, we get one sided information like that in Australia constantly, but we call it a whitewash.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yeah, we all need to think happy thoughts, apparently. But where l live, there is little of that, since politics and ideology run our leaders, and Victorians are starting to crack.

Had a muzzled up guy approach me while l was carrying the shopping back, throwing expletives out and about, only because of the mask thing.

I threw one back, and walked off, as l am under no obligation to show this one my exemption.

He also mumbled something about "we will find out where you live", and "you will get yours" whatever that means?

Based on actual science, and actual experts, l don't see any serious obstacles..

Wow this era is really surreal.

There is an element in society that has been emboldened in some way for sure.


Just peeped the video of storm disaster coverage where guy gets out his pickup truck while driving just to attack a weatherman and crew with his protesting of something!

Saw another of woman on plane having a mask rage with flight attendants. No scary emoji option.

I keep saying coping skills should be mandatory taught in schools at a very young age. Would be a different world I think.

Investment in Anthony Robbins to learn how your brain works once you are an adult could be on the late side.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Wow this era is really surreal.

There is an element in society that has been emboldened in some way for sure.

Just peeped the video of storm disaster coverage where guy gets out his pickup truck while driving just to attack a weatherman and crew with his protesting of something!

Saw another of woman on plane having a mask rage with flight attendants. No scary emoji option.

I keep saying coping skills should be mandatory taught in schools at a very young age. Would be a different world I think.

Investment in Anthony Robbins to learn how your brain works once you are an adult could be on the late side.

I have read some of his books, and many others, my career is doing well, and l try to relax as much as l can when out, but l almost lost it last week, when someone in authority was razzing me.

He also after exchanging a few words, mentioned putting me under house arrest, l said, "go ahead" since l was holding a hot cup of coffee, and didn't give a shit.

After that l just wanted to get out of there asap, as l didn't trust myself.

Now, for me, sanity comes before anything else, period!

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I have read some of his books, and many others, my career is doing well, and l try to relax as much as l can when out, but l almost lost it last week, when someone in authority was razzing me.

He also after exchanging a few words, mentioned putting me under house arrest, l said, "go ahead" since l was holding a hot cup of coffee, and didn't give a shit.

After that l just wanted to get out of there asap, as l didn't trust myself.

Now, for me, sanity comes before anything else, period!

CONSEQUENCES......A concept so powerful but often considered and analyzed AFTER for so many.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

CONSEQUENCES......A concept so powerful but often considered and analyzed AFTER for so many.

I understand that, which is why after getting thrown out, kicked the lift button,...with my foot.

And we had our illustrious Dictator on practically every tv channel today for two straight hours, effectively telling us, "he will open playgrounds and in home childcare and that's it".

So no relief from having to go to propaganda centers, and get bombarded with Covid crap every 15 minutes, inbetween modern day crap music.

We have had TWO Covid deaths in our State this entire....year, and one was in her 90's and another, with a heart condition.

People are saying the world is laughing at the f...whit destroying our state, over cases, and they are right.

[Kay King]

You have to wonder if some of the 'leaders' read their own comments and realize they don't make much sense.


Today Reuters had a blurb about 3 week extension of lockdowns in Melbourne.

"We have thrown everything at this, but it is now clear to us that we are not going to drive these numbers down, they are instead going to increase," Andrews told reporters in Melbourne, the state capital, after a lockdown for nearly a month failed to quell the outbreak. The lockdown was due to end on Thursday.

He seems to be saying the lockdowns and other requirements didn't work - so let's do them longer??? Does that make sense to anyone? Nope.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by savidge4

If you look at something like this: ( https://www.science.org/news/2021/08...t-defeat-delta ) and the percentage of vaccinated vs non vaccinated being 50% the 17:1 ratio gets thrown out the door with the bathwater.

I read the article you posted. It said that in Israel over half the new cases are from the vaccinated.

It didn't say that half the deaths were coming from the vaccinated.

I said The CDC says that if you are unvaccinated, you have a 15 times greater chance of dying from Covid

Obviously that means only the group of people that test positive. Not the entire population.

The vaccine greatly aids the body in stopping the internal spread of the virus. It's impossible to stop the virus from spreading to vaccinated people. Just like it's impossible to stop any airborne particle from being inhaled by anyone who breaths.

The vaccine greatly improves your chances of not having to go to the hospital or dying.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Wow this era is really surreal.
.

It isn't the era, it's us.

Tony Robbins isn't a psychiatrist or brain pathologist. He's a motivational speaker who studied Neuro-linguistic Programing decades ago.

There are plenty of books by brain pathologists and psychiatrists that can explain why we do and say irrational things.

Human behavior hasn't changed for at least 100,000 years. Humans, throughout time, have thought "This era is surreal".

It feels different because you are living in it.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Kay King

You have to wonder if some of the 'leaders' read their own comments and realize they don't make much sense.

Today Reuters had a blurb about 3 week extension of lockdowns in Melbourne.

He seems to be saying the lockdowns and other requirements didn't work - so let's do them longer??? Does that make sense to anyone? Nope.

No, he makes no sense to anyone here, Kay.

[Mark Singletary]

Honest question with no agenda or leaning to either side:

A year ago, on 9/2/2020, there were 1,076 deaths with a 7-day average of 862. This situation was mostly blamed on the then executive branch by many people including some in this thread. At the time, the answer was vaccines, gotta get the vaccines, that's the only thing that will save us besides more lockdowns and mask mandates.

This year, on 9/2/2021, there were 2,932 deaths with a 7-day average of 1,521. This is with 53% of the population fully vaccinated and 62% having at least one dose. The mask mandates are still in place in many cases, vaccinations are increasingly required, yet neither of those seems to have worked very well.

The party line now is that it's the unvaccinated that's causing all the issues. But a year ago zero people were vaccinated but 1/3 less were dying.

How can that be?

Is it possible this is a seasonal thing, and it has nothing to do with masks, lockdowns, or vaccines?

Many people insist the vaccine is saving lives. Yet the raw data says that compared to last year when there were no vaccines, it is not.

In your view, how do we reconcile this situation to where it makes sense? What's the old saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Do you think we ever get to the point where we say COVID is like cancer which kills 600,000 a year or heart disease which kills 650,000 and just let people get on with their life the best way they can?

Mark

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Honest question with no agenda or leaning to either side:

A year ago, on 9/2/2020, there were 1,076 deaths with a 7-day average of 862. This situation was mostly blamed on the then executive branch by many people including some in this thread. At the time, the answer was vaccines, gotta get the vaccines, that's the only thing that will save us besides more lockdowns and mask mandates.

This year, on 9/2/2021, there were 2,932 deaths with a 7-day average of 1,521. This is with 53% of the population fully vaccinated and 62% having at least one dose. The mask mandates are still in place in many cases, vaccinations are increasingly required, yet neither of those seems to have worked very well.

The party line now is that it's the unvaccinated that's causing all the issues. But a year ago zero people were vaccinated but 1/3 less were dying.

How can that be?

That's a sincere intelligent question. Here is the answer.

A year ago, the virus was still spreading. There were still areas were almost nobody had it. But that's not the main reason.

A year ago, most of us were scared stiff. So there were lockdowns, events were cancelled, people washed their hands incessantly, and we mostly wore masks...and nearly everyone wore masks when shopping, or traveling.

And...there was no Delta Variant. The Delta variant is twice as transmissible, and a little more deadly. It also (for whatever reason) is lowering the average age of those affected.

And...maybe most important...the people that aren't getting the vaccine are becoming more certain that the vaccine is somehow a bad thing.

So we now have slightly less than 50% of the country that isn't wearing masks, isn't social distancing, and are attending large gatherings without worry. None of which was happening a year ago.

So we are now seeing a shrinking percentage of the adult population getting sick and dying in slowly increasing numbers.

I wonder when the shrinking number of "No vaccine" hardliners shrinks far enough to overcome the increasing virulence of the new strain (and future strains).

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Do you think we ever get to the point where we say COVID is like cancer which kills 600,000 a year or heart disease which kills 650,000 and just let people get on with their life the best way they can?

Mark

No. Why? Because we cannot stop people from getting cancer or having heart attacks.
But we can stop almost everyone from dying from Covid, right now. At least in the US.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Many people insist the vaccine is saving lives. Yet the raw data says that compared to last year when there were no vaccines, it is not.

That's not true. You are comparing the whole population from a year ago. If you separate the people who have been vaccinated, you see that almost all (certainly more than 95%) of the people who are now dying from Covid are unvaccinated.

About the same number of people dying a day as a year ago, but from less than half the population.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Honest question with no agenda or leaning to either side:

A year ago, on 9/2/2020, there were 1,076 deaths with a 7-day average of 862. This situation was mostly blamed on the then executive branch by many people including some in this thread. At the time, the answer was vaccines, gotta get the vaccines, that's the only thing that will save us besides more lockdowns and mask mandates.

And that was the universally agreed strategy, regardless of party or belief system.

The "Party line" ....no matter which party, doesn't change the numbers. It may change who you blame, but dead is still dead, and they can be counted.

Regardless of party, hospitals still keep records, and report to the CDC.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

That's not true. You are comparing the whole population from a year ago. If you separate the people who have been vaccinated, you see that almost all (certainly more than 95%) of the people who are now dying from Covid are unvaccinated.

About the same number of people dying a day as a year ago, but from less than half the population.

Okay, thanks for screwing up my next post.

Mark

[Kay King]

The vast majority of people who have died from COVID-19 were unvaccinated. Fatal cases of COVID-19 among vaccinated people are either very low or virtually zero in 48 states.

In all states, the rate of breakthrough cases among the fully vaccinated is below 1 percent.

Connecticut, for example, has one of the lowest breakthrough rates at 0.01 percent. Over 64 percent of people have been fully vaccinated in the state.
In Arizona, 94.1 percent of new COVID-19 cases involve unvaccinated people.Even in Tennessee, where vaccination coverage is at 41 percent, fully vaccinated people who acquired the coronavirus is only 0.4 percent.

"breakthrough cases" are attention grabs for newsrooms....and there are so many numbers being thrown around it's impossible for a non-scientific person to do an in depth analysis IMO.

Does not mean breakthrough cases cannot happen - or that you cannot find a few stories that PROVE 'it can happen'. What it does mean is it's unlikely to happen to YOU. If you are fully vaccinated you are far safer than an unvaccinated person.

You can argue FDA approval and fear of vaccines - and whether it's 'really' a vaccine or not....but you cannot argue the vaccines are not saving lives because those numbers are there for all to see.

figures collected by NBC News has found that at least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died. Still, the 125,682 “breakthrough” cases in 38 states found by NBC News represented less than 0.08% of the 164.2 million-plus people (and counting) who have been fully vaccinated since the start of the year, or about one in every 1,300.That is, the number of cases and deaths among the vaccinated is very small compared to the number among the unvaccinated. Health officials, particularly in the States, are urging unvaccinated people to come forward for Covid immunization.

The quotes above are not 'an argument to get shots' - but the reality of what the choices may entail. I hope unvaccinated people are making logical choices for themselves and I have no problem with them doing that - but I hope those whose decision is based on 'they can't tell me what to do' will rethink their position.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

"breakthrough cases" are attention grabs for newsrooms....and there are so many numbers being thrown around it's impossible for a non-scientific person to do an in depth analysis IMO.

I said "Certainly more than 95%" because I had read different figures for different states. And some figures are for one shot, and some figures are for the fully vaccinated. And some figures are for cases, some for hospitalizations, and some for deaths from Covid.

But I think the number of fully vaccinated breakthrough cases resulting in deaths is under 1% of Covid deaths for any state.

I agree that many (maybe most) people don't know who to believe, because they are hearing conflicting stories. Or they just accept the information (opinions) of whatever "news' source they listen to.

But the CDC gets their numbers directly from the hospitals. And I trust the numbers, until I have a reason not to.

[lanfear63]

Bottom line. The vaccine does not stop us from getting Covid, or transmitting it. However it lessens the symptoms, shortens the time they persist and greatly reduces our chances of being hospitalized and dying for it. That's a win, win.

In the high summer months, pretty much all viruses slow down in their transmission rate due to the hot weather so we see in both this year and last the people and powers that be became more lax about keeping protocols in place, thinking or hoping the worst was over and more and more people this year were getting vaccinated anyway. That was a false hope.

Now the cooler months are beginning to draw in we will and are seeing an increase just because of that, as well as a newer variant which is more highly transmittable than the original.

So the conclusions are, get vaccinated and it becomes more like the flu in it's threat. Although most likely it will almost wipe out the deaths to perhaps less than what the flu does. Just like the flu though, it will only kill people in vulnerable conditions.

Those who don' t get Vaxed, a certain percentage will get Covid and will die, the rest will just suffer through it. Eventually the virus will most likely mutate to something far less harmful like the Spanish Flu did. I would say perhaps another year before that happens.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Just like the flu though, it will only kill people in vulnerable conditions.

This is a dangerous and unverifiable statement. It's also a line of reasoning that leads people to decide not to get vaccinated.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

This is a dangerous and unverifiable statement. It's also a line of reasoning that leads people to decide not get get vaccinated.

First, we are talking about this being possible only after people get vaccinated. So you have to be vaxed first to be anywhere near this situation.

Excluding last year, because of the lockdowns the flu did not rear it's ugly head so badly, normally it can carry off up to about about 63,000 in the US per year. Although the flu makes you feel really low it is not likely to kill you unless you are of a very weak disposition, very old or have pre-existing conditions. It can carry you over edge if you are near to it.

This I suspect could well be the case with Covid vaccinated people who get Covid and have the same health dispositions indicated above. It's going to lay you low but as with the flu, healthy people will get through it more likely because of the vaccine. Those with an already weak disposition could still be carried off by it.

This is I admit, a speculation as we have do not have sufficient stats to make a decent enough comparison as yet. I do not find it an Ilogical or dangerous reasoning though as the vast majority of hospitalizations are only catering for unvaccinated people.

[kenmichaels]

Just about everyone that I know in florida and their friends have been diagnosed with covid within the last week or so. My best friend's wife was admitted to the ER last night, another one was diagnosed and was fine until he had a massive heart attack, that one is going to be hard on me for a while because the last time we spoke it was a pretty hot argument. My buddy who runs a hotel a few miles from my house said that his entire place was a covid zone and some older lady perished there a few days ago. Four of the people who have covid say they were vaccinated, and they swear that they are breakout cases but I don't believe them because I remember trying to convince them to get vaccinated and they flat out refused.

I've been driving all over north jersey and a little bit into NY doing sales for the last couple of months and it's crazy how different people in Jersey treat covid vs FL. In NY/NJ I see lots of masks and people staying back from each other. In FL, even now when everyone I know is sick, it's as if there is no covid.

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Just about everyone that I know in florida and their friends have been diagnosed with covid within the last week or so. My best friend's wife was admitted to the ER last night, another one was diagnosed and was fine until he had a massive heart attack, that one is going to be hard on me for a while because the last time we spoke it was a pretty hot argument. My buddy who runs a hotel a few miles from my house said that his entire place was a covid zone and some older lady perished there a few days ago. Four of the people who have covid say they were vaccinated, and they swear that they are breakout cases but I don't believe them because I remember trying to convince them to get vaccinated and they flat out refused.

I've been driving all over north jersey and a little bit into NY doing sales for the last couple of months and it's crazy how different people in Jersey treat covid vs FL. In NY/NJ I see lots of masks and people staying back from each other. In FL, even now when everyone I know is sick, it's as if there is no covid.

It boggles the brain.

We are suppose to protect kids. The opposite strategy in Florida.

Celebrity with $100 Million Net-worth recently catches COVID and shares he is taking Ivermectin a Horse Deworming medication for COVID 19.

It's only $100 Million on the line.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

Celebrity with $100 Million Net-worth recently catches COVID and shares he is taking Ivermectin a Horse Deworming medication for COVID 19.

It's only $100 Million on the line.

The very same "horse deworming medication" as you say, that the CDC recommends refugees are given. https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugee...uidelines.html

Off label use of drugs is a legit practice done by thousands of mainstream doctors every day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._off-label_use
I've taken drugs for off label purposes several times that were prescribed by a mainstream physician.

Most of the headlines are focusing on the animal usage of the drug to make it seem so bad and so weird but somewhere in the small print most of them will say oh and the drug is also used for humans who've taken it safely for many years for various sicknesses. All about the narrative!

Mark

[Profit Traveler]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

The very same "horse deworming medication" as you say, that the CDC recommends refugees are given. https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugee...uidelines.html

Off label use of drugs is a legit practice done by thousands of mainstream doctors every day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._off-label_use
I've taken drugs for off label purposes several times that were prescribed by a mainstream physician.

Most of the headlines are focusing on the animal usage of the drug to make it seem so bad and so weird but somewhere in the small print most of them will say oh and the drug is also used for humans who've taken it safely for many years for various sicknesses. All about the narrative!

Mark

There must be 2 different Googles.

Because the one I am using has several stories of Emergency rooms that can not accommodate people that were shot because so many are overdosing from Ivermectin and possibility of losing vision entirely.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ontrol-centers

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...covid-1220608/

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-em...rmectin-2021-9

But please...do enjoy your choices.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

There must be 2 different Googles.

Because the one I am using has several stories of Emergency rooms that can not accommodate people that were shot because so many are overdosing from Ivermectin and possibility of losing vision entirely.

I never promoted the idea. I pointed out that it's not just a deworming medicine for animals which is what you made it sound like. I said the CDC promotes its use because it's a safe drug and approved for certain common sicknesses. Those are facts.

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

It boggles the brain.

We are suppose to protect kids. The opposite strategy in Florida.

Celebrity with $100 Million Net-worth recently catches COVID and shares he is taking Ivermectin a Horse Deworming medication for COVID 19.

It's only $100 Million on the line.

The problem with a lot of people is that they really don't care if someone lives or dies with this thing. It's all about the narrative. It's about compliance. It's about control.

Why aren't people glad he overcame COVID even though he used nontraditional means? He's recovering and now has some natural immunity. Why isn't that something good?

Or does his life not matter because he didn't do it the right way?

The FDA is running trials on the drug with COVID so it's not like it's so way out there. If it were, they wouldn't be running trials. If it were so dangerous, they wouldn't be running trials on humans (not horses). Maybe they are doing it to shut people up with proof it doesn't work. We'll see.

Mark

[Profit Traveler]

I came to the realization that we have to let some people do them whatever that is.

But it is scary times because some people are very very easily manipulated.

I just wish catching COVID was like a direct byproduct of a choice we made like chose to ingest meth and this is the side effect.

But when we may catch it because someone else made the decision they have a super immunity system or self medicate it's scary.

[Mark Singletary]

I agree with all that. I think the trouble is when people aren't allowed to ask questions. I mean you'd literally get banned from YT or FB for even asking questions about the vaccines. News programs don't typically allow any other sides of the story except to say how stupid the other side is. Politicians do it too.

Why can't anyone question any of it? Or put forth a different argument? Why is one doctor legit because he's got a comfy government job but another doctor not legit just because he doesn't.

The reason I hate all this so much is that it's obvious no one really knows exactly how this is going to end. They said just the other day that a booster shot would complete the treatment. But they said that about the base injections too. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, lockdown, don't lockdown it seems no matter what happens much of it all stays the same. Claude pointed out earlier that things are getting better but still, it's maddening.

Mark

Originally Posted by Profit Traveler

I came to the realization that we have to let some people do them whatever that is.

But it is scary times because some people are very very easily manipulated.

I just wish catching COVID was like a direct byproduct of a choice we made like chose to ingest meth and this is the side effect.

But when we may catch it because someone else made the decision they have a super immunity system or self medicate it's scary.

[Kay King]

I just wish catching COVID was like a direct byproduct of a choice we made like chose to ingest meth and this is the side effect.

I think at this point dying of covid is a direct byproduct of a choice we made. If vaccinated - you have a layer of protection from dying of covid that you did not have a year ago. It's not perfect, there's a small risk attached - but the numbers are in. Almost all of the people in ICU and morgues due to covid were not vaccinated.

If two people with covid take Ivermectin - one of them gets better and one of them dies....you have two headlines depending on the 'slant' of your publication.

"Ivermectin cures man with covid"
"Taking Ivermectin kills man with covid"


What motivates someone to avoid a vaccine MEANT for human consumption and then take a poison clearly marked 'not for human consumption'? There is no logic there.


What is getting better is the death rate. If you use wayback machine to look at stats a year ago on
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

...we have far more 'cases' now but the death rate has not increased at the same rate. Either we have better treatment or that breakthrough cases are not killing people who are vaccinated.

It's too bad you can't talk a virus to death - covid would have been gone months ago if that were possible and media would be heroes.

A local news blurb not long ago mentioned 2 patients hospitalized with covid who claimed they had been fully vaccinated - and as they got sicker admitted they had not had any vaccine. That story blew my mind...why would anyone do that? People...are strange.

Why can't anyone question any of it? Or put forth a different argument?

Because the arguing of non-medically trained people accomplishes nothing. Why is there a need to argue the subject. You get the vaccine or you don't. The vaccine works to keep you safe of it doesn't. Also because when social media first began 'censoring'...people didn't complain.

The reason I hate all this so much is that it's obvious no one really knows exactly how this is going to end.

Of course no one knows - part of it depends on how many people decide to be vaccinated - and part of it is out of our control. Part of the fear is that no one can tell you what to do to be 100% safe....and we are accustomed to being told what to do. Everything we buy comes with 'warnings' telling us what not to do....including Ivermectin.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

The very same "horse deworming medication" as you say, that the CDC recommends refugees are given. https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugee...uidelines.html

I'm glad you brought that up.
Yes, some "News" channels keep saying that it's a deworming drug for animals. And it is. They aren't saying that the CDC recommends its use in humans.

So let's keep clarifying these pieces of potential misinformation.

On the exact same webpage you posted, the Ivermectin was listed under;

Parasitic Treatment: Strongyloidiasis, Schistosomiasis, and Soil-Transmitted Helminth Infections

Ivermectin kills parasites. It works in humans as well as animals. But it doesn't kill viruses. It kills parasitic worms and other parasites. Parasites and viruses are not related in any way.

It doesn't work, for the same reason your flu shot doesn't kill your parasitic infestation.

In the article you linked to, did you notice all the other drugs that the immigrants were given? Why? Why not just give them Ivermectin to get rid of every possible illness, disease, virus, and infection?

These other drugs are given, because Ivermectin is very effective at killing parasitic worms and a host of other parasites, anywhere in the body. But that's it. it doesn't kill the flu, or Mumps, or polio, or hay fever, or allergies, or any viral infection. It kills worms.

Covid is a virus. It is not a worm. It is not a parasite.

The danger to humans isn't that the drug is just for animals. The drug doesn't know the difference between a horse and a human. It still kills parasites, in humans as well as other mammals.

The danger is twofold;

1) That people think this will kill a virus, and it will not. At least no clinical trial has shown that it kills viruses.
2) People are taking way too much, which leads to the same symptoms someone would have if they took any drug in large quantities.

Anyway, I hope that's helpful.


Added later; There have been clinical trials for Ivermectin. I found one in Malaysia. I have not found a trial that shows that Ivermectin is effective in killing any virus. But I just searched the first page results when I Googled it.

If someone has a clinical trial (from an official hospital or government website) that shows a positive result killing Covid with Ivermectin, you could solve this puzzle now. Articles written by journalists on websites don't count. Let's see the source.

[Kay King]

Good explanation, Claude - I've used Ivermectin on dogs, too. The reason it's used on immigrants is that many are infested with parasites due to poor living conditions either in the country they came from or due to the journey they made.