Return on investment is missing in action

by WarriorForum.com Administrator
8 replies
A new article on Martech.org says forget about predicting ROI in today's lightning-fast digital environment. Instead, develop agile, reactive response systems.



When business spends money on anything, it expects to see a "return on investment"-- a lift that has some correlation with the spend. This would be fine if marketing was a machine, with fixed, measurable inputs and outputs. Except we are living in "the Information Age", so Industrial Age accounting will fail to notice what is really going on.

Marketing often appears as a cost sink on the balance sheet. It's relationship to output is not always obvious. Kathleen Schaub, marketing management and organization strategist, and Mark Stouse, chairman of Proof Data Corporation, want to shed some light on this situation. Schaub focuses on how complexity affects marketing, while Stouse takes a deeper look at analytics. These two angles converge on a common point: the old way of measuring marketing ROI misses a lot, providing inaccurate guidance for marketing efforts.

Schaub goes into further detail in her paper "Marketing Is Not a Vending Machine." "Markets are what science calls complex adaptive systems. The interactions of many independent agents, both individuals and enterprises - customers, companies, influencers, partners, and governments, produce feedback loops that cause situations to constantly change. Change produces many unknowns." Schaub wrote.

Those feedback loops have speeded up, thanks to globalization and digitalization. "There's no breathing room," Schaub told us, so marketers have a hard time keeping up. It is only in the past several decades that data and computers have finally provided a way to see this happening. "Now that things have speeded up, we can see these patterns in the data."

ROI for marketing is not there." Schaub said. "Never has been. Never will be. Not in the old standard sense."
#action #investment #missing #return
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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    Reminds me how many times people used to wonder out loud when and if Twitter would ever be profitable.

    They reported first official profits in 2019! First tweet was 2006.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/t...-q4/index.html
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    • Profile picture of the author WF- Enzo
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      At least they reported their profits. Others aren't so lucky

      Originally Posted by Profit Traveler View Post

      Reminds me how many times people used to wonder out loud when and if Twitter would ever be profitable.

      They reported first official profits in 2019! First tweet was 2006.

      https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/t...-q4/index.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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        Originally Posted by WF- Enzo View Post

        At least they reported their profits. Others aren't so lucky

        Free platform/community that people check into daily has a damn good chance every time. Not getting splattered with Google Ads coming and going adds some appeal.

        Sprinkle in some Celebs that get publicity articles from their interactions/tweets in the mix which is basically Free Ads and not bad at all.


        Interesting Elon Musk recently advised to invest in physical things during times like this but he will not sell any of his cryptocurrency. He and his brother also claimed they knew nothing about the environmental impact of Cryptocurrency when they invested ...the Electric car guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anayadwyn
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Want to give mods a heads up, feel free to delete this, may just be rambling and raving.

      I appreciate these articles, I really do, and often learn something from them. It is, however, hard for me to relate them to the GENERAL population of WF.

      I could be wrong. It just seems that most (big%) of Warriors are one person operators, or started that way. It is hard to imagine too many Warriors relating to what corporations do with their big data.

      ROI, should include, but often doesn't, because it is an accounting item and one can see how many dollars (or whatever currency) went into it. But, the Warrior should include a cost of her TIME invested too.

      Assign a dollar amount to your hour, whatever it may be in your country, and figure in the amount of time it takes to go from the RED (costs and expenses) into the BLACK (profits; gross and net).

      Take a done for you WSO for example, you get a done for you affiliate marketing for say 197. You pay that amount, then the work begins, because like most DFY programs, they leave a lot of the heavy lifting to you. YOU have to search clickbank, warriorplus...and then spend the money for your site, which takes time.

      Time. If it was this easy, why wouldn't all of us Warriors, especially those with some success...simply BUY done for you programs and head to the beach for some fun and sun?

      Believe me, there are tons of Warriors who would gladly pay 200 bux for a done for you program that didn't involve a lot of time and effort, why wouldn't we love something like this?

      It helps to read about what big corporations do, and even Internet start-ups, but just from reading these many articles over the years...they seem to targeted toward a very, very small group of Warriors.

      When we talk about ROI for Warriors, lets include the TIME they spend (or often waste) before they get to any return at all.

      And also, I'd wager, that most all of the companies Martech, et al, report on were venture funded to begin with, a lot different than a Warrior working on a tight budget in her spare time trying to escape the rat race.

      If it is rant, its over.

      GordonJ



      QUOTE=Anayadwyn;11717126]Marketing is created specifically for expenses decrease and promotion activity. Tough not to agree with the words of the specialists in this sphere.
      When the business receives investments, it's obliged to realise these investments according to the development plan, and this devlopment plan must include marketing campiagns, otherwise - everything is for nothing.
      Obviously, if you don't promote your business and you can't do something in order to attract clients, the investments turn into wasted money. The rating of the business shrinks, and the company will probably have no another opportunity to attract investments more.[/QUOTE]
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I appreciate these articles, I really do, and often learn something from them. It is, however, hard for me to relate them to the GENERAL population of WF.

        I could be wrong. It just seems that most (big%) of Warriors are one person operators, or started that way. It is hard to imagine too many Warriors relating to what corporations do with their big data.
        Gordon, I'm sure you're right about the general WF membership, but the apparent disconnect is probably inevitable, given the nature of the forum's ownership. I don't blame the staff who are charged with creating this content - I suspect it's a policy decision from on high - but when an article is taken from a source which is itself geared for corporate consumption, the disconnect widens.

        Most of these threads come and go quickly. But every now and then, a seasoned and generous member stops by and takes the time to interpret any salient marketing points, putting them in terms that most members can relate to.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Thanks for that, reminder...I oft forget who owns WF, and what it is a part of.

          We tried. Many of us, several years ago to help the WF fulfill its potential, remember the Lone Ranger, riding his white horse, 10 gallon hat and all...lasted about, what 18 months.

          He tried too.

          I guess what makes me miffed, is...

          The WF has better resources, right here, among it's members, and rather than have the employee go outside the forum to create content, they could utilize the best resource at their disposal, for next to nothing. Maybe a little gratitude.

          But, you are 100% right. I must keep in mind the corporate octopus behind the WF, and guess to learn from the lessons of growing from a one man band (Alan) to an International congolomerate...and realize, we members are just data points these days.

          Thanks for the cooler.

          GordonJ

          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Gordon, I'm sure you're right about the general WF membership, but the apparent disconnect is probably inevitable, given the nature of the forum's ownership. I don't blame the staff who are charged with creating this content - I suspect it's a policy decision from on high - but when an article is taken from a source which is itself geared for corporate consumption, the disconnect widens.

          Most of these threads come and go quickly. But every now and then, a seasoned and generous member stops by and takes the time to interpret any salient marketing points, putting them in terms that most members can relate to.
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Thanks for the cooler.
            It wasn't intended as a cooler. Righteous rants will always have their place - not that your post came over as a rant.

            The owners ought to be glad there are still data points who care.
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    The article is actually about how the 'marketing as a 100% reliable machine" does not exist.


    "companies will gain a more effective playbook if they rethink return on investment (ROI) through the lens of marketing's unpredictable reality. "



    "Marketers understand the importance of ROI. Yet, despite advances in technology and improvements in operations, useful financial information for making marketing decisions remains out of reach for most. The vending-machine perspective blinds management to what is needed for change, so they are unwilling or unable to give marketers the necessary tools. Marketers lack sufficient data and analytics capability." (https://www.kathleenschaub.com/blog/...rethinking-roi).


    Her point seems to be very different from what your summary says her point is.
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