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Want more offline clients? This is a NEVER FAIL way to do it.

by John Durham
167 replies
If you ask anyone what the hardest part of sales is they will tell you “Cold Calling”. Being even a less than average salesman, if you can get cold calling right, you can earn a good living.

Generally when someone is consistently failing, they are not consistently prospecting. Why?
Because, again, prospecting is the hardest part of sales. People who don’t do the hard stuff, cant be in the top percentile.

Does it have to be hard… no.

Our internet marketing pioneers have taught us funneling systems… ‘systems” that were more effective years ago than today, though the “principles” taught still thrive.

We constantly have to come up with more complex ways to make them continue to work…
You see systems, and techniques change, only “principles” endure.

In every conception there is a metaphorical egg and a fertilizer or catalyst… So, what spawned all these systems, and knowledge of these principles of online prospecting?

Desire. Desire to never have to cold call anyone again. Desire to advertise in ways that make customers come to you… Generating customers “passively”.

Still, in some markets like “web design” for instance the online competition is soo steep that for most offline marketers , they will never be able to funnel any significant amount of customers from the search engines… the most brilliant seo people and marketing minds in the world are competing for those spots, even in small towns.

Not impossible… but not easy in a lot of cases, furthermore in some small localized areas the online market simply isn’t big enough to bring significant business even if you have the top spot…

So how do you compete?

Many go back to the principle that endures… “prospecting aggressively instead of passively”, taking the bull by the horns and controlling your numbers through telemarketing.

Telemarketing ALWAYS works. It NEVER fails… and it NEVER gets more complicated than:

1: A person
2: A list
3: A script
4: A phone.
5: A willingness to make 100 phone calls, and expect a 3-5% conversion rate (2 in the bag and 3 in the pipeline).

Go where the competition is not.

Here’s how telemarketing works:

1: Make 100 calls
2: Schedule two appointments
3: Two more appointments will come over the next two weeks from that initial 100 calls.
4: Prospect every day, and keep the pipeline stuffed.

This system is worth 2-3 clients per week on the front end… and eventually 2 or 3 per DAY if you keep cold calling daily and stuffing the pipeline.

It ALWAYS works.

Do you have to do it yourself? No.

If you are marketing to offline businesses do you HAVE to do it? No.

Will it guarantee your results?

YES! YES! YES!

It never fails…

Try it and see.
#clients #fail #offline
  • Profile picture of the author dsprank
    Great post. Telemarketing can really suck, but it does work. At least in the offline marketing world you would not have to do it forever if you have clients paying monthly. Put up with it for a few months and your business will be booming.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by dsprank View Post

      Great post. Telemarketing can really suck, but it does work. At least in the offline marketing world you would not have to do it forever if you have clients paying monthly. Put up with it for a few months and your business will be booming.
      I cannot tell you how many times in my life I have saved my own ass by picking up a phone book and cold calling some people. It doesnt take an act of congress. Take five minutes, write a sc ript and if you have nothing else, open a phone book and start talking to people.

      Here's my golden script:

      Hey Im a local webdesigner, just moved to the area, and Im callin around trying to drum up some business...wonderin if you folks had a website or had maybe considered doing one for your business...

      Then some would say... Well I have been thinking about it but its on the back burner... I aint got 2k to spare right now

      Me: Well you dont need 2k , all you really need is an about us, home, contact us, and services page... I could have that running for you in 72 hours... you only need a couple of hundred dollars to geet started...
      Customer: Well...
      Me: Tell you what, I'll be out in your area on thursday...is there a good time to stop by and talk...

      Then... when you get to the appointment, offer them a deal thats impossible to say no to.

      Okay...

      It all begins with, "Have you folks given anythought to starting a website?

      If they already have one... just move on. Dont beat yourself up rebuttling people and selling them... just find someone who is interested. You are looking for a laydown.

      If you make 100 calls per day you will get a ton of laydowns.
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      • Profile picture of the author dremora
        How do you get past the gatekeepers and reach the business owner?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          The key is not "get past"... The key is "By" pass.

          Generate a call list comprised of business owners that exist within a certaindemographic such as "10 employees or less" this way you are targeting mom and pop businesses. In 70% of the cases the owners themselves are answering the phone or are within arms reach.

          You can target these business by going here:

          Mailing Lists - Sales Leads , Telemarketing, Business, Residential Lists & Leads

          Im not an affiliate but I am a customer.
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          • Profile picture of the author hometutor
            You're right cold calling sucks but thanks for reminding me I need to do that. One thing I am doing is delivering fliers to businesses by hand

            Rick
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by hometutor View Post

              You're right cold calling sucks but thanks for reminding me I need to do that. One thing I am doing is delivering fliers to businesses by hand

              Rick
              That works too. While randomly passing out flyers, leaving them on cars and on doors... works not too well most of the time.... passing them out to business owners and being there to shake hands and strike up a conversation about them does.

              Youn can also use others to pass them out and pay them by the amount of call ins you recieve...
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        • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
          Originally Posted by dremora View Post

          How do you get past the gatekeepers and reach the business owner?
          When it comes to dealing with office managers, secretaries, personal assistants, receptionists, etc., you'd be surprised how far a box of candy, flowers, movie tickets or some other inexpensive gift will get you. Worked wonders for me!

          And the best part is I didn't have to pay for any of those things. But that's a story for another day.

          David Jackson
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

            When it comes to dealing with office managers, secretaries, personal assistants, receptionists, etc., you'd be surprised how far a box of candy, flowers, movie tickets or some other inexpensive gift will get you. Worked wonders for me!

            David Jackson
            Yes, honestly, just being sweet enough to them on the phone works too. There are ways to get past gatekeepers but my own system is just "bypass" them... I dont like to work any harder than I have to or talk till Im blue in the face...

            Its more like "Yall need a website"? If so talk to them, if not move on.

            Yes flowers and candy works too though
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            • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
              Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

              There are ways to get past gatekeepers but my own system is just "bypass" them... I dont like to work any harder than I have to or talk till Im blue in the face...
              See, to me it wasn't work. To me, it was salesmanship! But whatever works for you is fine.

              David Jackson
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              • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

                See, to me it wasn't work. To me, it was salesmanship! But whatever works for you is fine.

                David Jackson
                Nothing wrong with that David... Im just explaining the difference between tactics... great salesman ship is all the better.

                Edit: To some sales isnt work... to me it is. I hate sales. I look for prospects that dont kick tires a whole lot... and dont need to be impressed. I like the kind where a guy says "yeah I know I need a website... whats this gonna set me back"?

                In between the calls it takes to find that guy, there are alot of opportunities to pitch people, but I just dont. I like it easy... keep callin, somebody will say yes.

                I have experience managing, consulting, designing pitches and breaking company records in some of the larger telemarketing rooms in the US, fulfilling many diverse types of telemarketing contracts, even establishing new contracts for telemarketing rooms...

                There are different mind sets... for some sales you are required to impress, in other you dont have to but you can...

                In some, you are better off to just run through the numbers till you find a laydown.

                In offline web design... a customer thats too hard to sell has got a good chance of bein a pain in your ass everyday later.
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      • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
        Banned
        Thanks, I have been considering telemarketing recently my only fear is do you require a business license to approach offline businesses?

        Additionally 100 calls a day; wouldn't it be hard to consistently find 100 calls per day for businesses in the proximity of your town?

        Great Tips!
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        If you ask anyone what the hardest part of sales is they will tell you "Cold Calling". Being even a less than average salesman, if you can get cold calling right, you can earn a good living.

        Generally when someone is consistently failing, they are not consistently prospecting. Why?
        Because, again, prospecting is the hardest part of sales. People who don't do the hard stuff, cant be in the top percentile.

        Does it have to be hard... no.

        Our internet marketing pioneers have taught us funneling systems... 'systems" that were more effective years ago than today, though the "principles" taught still thrive.

        We constantly have to come up with more complex ways to make them continue to work...
        You see systems, and techniques change, only "principles" endure.

        In every conception there is a metaphorical egg and a fertilizer or catalyst... So, what spawned all these systems, and knowledge of these principles of online prospecting?

        Desire. Desire to never have to cold call anyone again. Desire to advertise in ways that make customers come to you... Generating customers "passively".

        Still, in some markets like "web design" for instance the online competition is soo steep that for most offline marketers , they will never be able to funnel any significant amount of customers from the search engines... the most brilliant seo people and marketing minds in the world are competing for those spots, even in small towns.

        Not impossible... but not easy in a lot of cases, furthermore in some small localized areas the online market simply isn't big enough to bring significant business even if you have the top spot...

        So how do you compete?

        Many go back to the principle that endures... "prospecting aggressively instead of passively", taking the bull by the horns and controlling your numbers through telemarketing.

        Telemarketing ALWAYS works. It NEVER fails... and it NEVER gets more complicated than:
        1: A person
        2: A list
        3: A script
        4: A phone.
        5: A willingness to make 100 phone calls, and expect a 3-5% conversion rate (2 in the bag and 3 in the pipeline).

        Go where the competition is not.

        Here's how telemarketing works:

        1: Make 100 calls
        2: Schedule two appointments
        3: Two more appointments will come over the next two weeks from that initial 100 calls.
        4: Prospect every day, and keep the pipeline stuffed.

        This system is worth 2-3 clients per week on the front end... and eventually 2 or 3 per DAY if you keep cold calling daily and stuffing the pipeline.

        It ALWAYS works.

        Do you have to do it yourself? No.

        If you are marketing to offline businesses do you HAVE to do it. No.
        Will it guarantee your results?

        YES! YES! YES!

        It never fails...

        Try it and see.
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        I cannot tell you how many times in my life I have saved my own ass by picking up a phone book and cold calling some people. It doesnt take an act of congress. Take five minutes, write a sc ript and if you have nothing else, open a phone book and start talking to people.

        Here's my golden script:

        Hey Im a local webdesigner, just moved to the area, and Im callin around trying to drum up some business...wonderin if you folks had a website or had maybe considered doing one for your business...

        Then some would say... Well I have been thinking about it but its on the back burner... I aint got 2k to spare right now

        Me: Well you dont need 2k , all you really need is an about us, home, contact us, and services page... I could have that running for you in 72 hours... you only need a couple of hundred dollars to geet started...
        Customer: Well...
        Me: Tell you what, I'll be out in your area on thursday...is there a good time to stop by and talk...

        Then... when you get to the appointment, offer them a deal thats impossible to say no to.

        Okay...

        It all begins with, "Have you folks given anythought to starting a website?

        If they already have one... just move on. Dont beat yourself up rebuttling people and selling them... just find someone who is interested. You are looking for a laydown.

        If you make 100 calls per day you will get a ton of laydowns.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jimian
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Have you folks given anythought to starting a website?
        As simple as that is, I like it...

        I might alter it some by saying, "I do online lead-generation, and have you
        folks given any thought to getting more clients/customers/leads from the internet??

        I just might use it!!
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Jimian View Post

          As simple as that is, I like it...

          I might alter it some by saying, "I do online lead-generation, and have you
          folks given any thought to getting more clients/customers/leads from the internet??

          I just might use it!!
          Thats all it takes .

          No? Not interested? Okay well thanks for your time, have a great day... NEXT "Have yall ever thought about doing a website for your business...? oh really you've thought about it but its on the backburner....? tell me what kind of project are you thinking about... okay well you're in for a surprise cuz I can make this alot easier than you're thinking it has to be... when can we meet?

          BAMMM!

          Next call "Yall need a website"? No ? Okay thanks.

          Hello? Yall need a website...? No but we need more traffic to our existing one... Okay well let me look at your site and talk to my seo guy and call you back...

          Call back: "Yes we can do 100 backlinks for you for 1.00 per backlink... your highest competitor only has 99 so... I suggest you go ahead and do 300 backlinks, just for good measure, I will give you a break and only charge $250.00

          That sort of thing...

          It really works just exactly like this. It takes about 2 and a half hours to make 100 calls... I personally watch Bobby Flay Barbequeing on the cooking channell the whole time Im doing it... kicked back on the couch.

          Some will want a website, you will also stumble across those who dont but are interested in other services... your choice to take whatever gigs you want...

          I highly recommend using a targeted call list... Cost= $9.99 for 2500 leads... unless it has went up lately and I dont know... I havent purchase a batch in 6 months.

          You can also rent dialer stations from my friend Al here: http://www.professionaltelemarketingsolutions.com

          Once again, not an affiliate of the dialer program, I dont make money if you rent a dialer just givin you a tip. Al and I have worked in the Insurance Lead generation Industry together. He's a good egg.

          Auto dialers can make your work easier... but, not neccessary for b2b, as most companies answer their phone... so you dont have to sift through answering machines... Auto dialers are imperative for "residential" calling though.

          I have spent alot of time thinking "What have I become a Guru at"?

          All the while I have 10 years of experience running multiple telemarketing based businesses and have become intimately familiar with every aspect of the industry...

          I can teach you how to get your own telemarketing contract with a nationwide company... or I can teach you how to run a dialer.. or I can take your telemarketing room and manage it for a month and triple your production...

          This is what Im good at....

          This finally is what I have decided I can offer the marketing community. Dont know how or in what form, but I am so excited to share this knowledge with you here.

          I believe that telemarketing can make a business work... and I also believe that it can give a young man or woman a life skill that causes them to never be a slave to another man again...

          This is my niche.
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          • Profile picture of the author perryny
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            I highly recommend using a targeted call list... Cost= $9.99 for 2500 leads... unless it has went up lately and I dont know... I havent purchase a batch in 6 months.

            Mailing Lists - Sales Leads , Telemarketing, Business, Residential Lists & Leads
            Hi John,

            Is the link you referenced the place where you got your 2500 leads at that price of $9.99? If so, the price has gone up... WAY up (to the tune of $250).

            If not, can you tell me where you'd recommend picking up a quality and inexpensive targeted list?

            Thanks,
            -Rob
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            • Profile picture of the author M4UNow
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              • Profile picture of the author perryny
                Originally Posted by M4UNow View Post

                Rob you only need one site and its free.

                Manta.com
                put in a zipcode you want to target scroll down pick a category of business
                and now you have owner name, annual sales, employee number and more.

                HTH

                Gina
                Thanks so much, Gina!

                I'm working with it now, but can't seem to find any way to export a list. Do you know if this is possible with Manta?

                -Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author goalpower
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Thats all it takes .

            No? Not interested? Okay well thanks for your time, have a great day... NEXT "Have yall ever thought about doing a website for your business...? oh really you've thought about it but its on the backburner....? tell me what kind of project are you thinking about... okay well you're in for a surprise cuz I can make this alot easier than you're thinking it has to be... when can we meet?

            BAMMM!

            Next call "Yall need a website"? No ? Okay thanks.

            Hello? Yall need a website...? No but we need more traffic to our existing one... Okay well let me look at your site and talk to my seo guy and call you back...

            Call back: "Yes we can do 100 backlinks for you for 1.00 per backlink... your highest competitor only has 99 so... I suggest you go ahead and do 300 backlinks, just for good measure, I will give you a break and only charge $250.00

            That sort of thing...

            It really works just exactly like this. It takes about 2 and a half hours to make 100 calls... I personally watch Bobby Flay Barbequeing on the cooking channell the whole time Im doing it... kicked back on the couch.

            Some will want a website, you will also stumble across those who dont but are interested in other services... your choice to take whatever gigs you want...

            I highly recommend using a targeted call list... Cost= $9.99 for 2500 leads... unless it has went up lately and I dont know... I havent purchase a batch in 6 months.

            You can also rent dialer stations from my friend Al here: Temporarily Unavailable

            Once again, not an affiliate of the dialer program, I dont make money if you rent a dialer just givin you a tip. Al and I have worked in the Insurance Lead generation Industry together. He's a good egg.

            Auto dialers can make your work easier... but, not neccessary for b2b, as most companies answer their phone... so you dont have to sift through answering machines... Auto dialers are imperative for "residential" calling though.

            I have spent alot of time thinking "What have I become a Guru at"?

            All the while I have 10 years of experience running multiple telemarketing based businesses and have become intimately familiar with every aspect of the industry...

            I can teach you how to get your own telemarketing contract with a nationwide company... or I can teach you how to run a dialer.. or I can take your telemarketing room and manage it for a month and triple your production...

            This is what Im good at....

            This finally is what I have decided I can offer the marketing community. Dont know how or in what form, but I am so excited to share this knowledge with you here.

            I believe that telemarketing can make a business work... and I also believe that it can give a young man or woman a life skill that causes them to never be a slave to another man again...

            This is my niche.
            OK - I agreee with everything you've said - up until "You can make 100 calls in 2.5 hours" - that's complete nonsense.

            I've worked in pro phone rooms - we were lucky if we made 200 calls in a full day - especially when you consider you'll make a ton of contacts - that slows you down considerably. The only way to make 100 calls in 2.5 hours is with an autodialer that goes live to you when someone picks up and getting nothing but voicemails.

            Please - let's be realistic here.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by goalpower View Post

              OK - I agreee with everything you've said - up until "You can make 100 calls in 2.5 hours" - that's complete nonsense.

              I've worked in pro phone rooms - we were lucky if we made 200 calls in a full day - especially when you consider you'll make a ton of contacts - that slows you down considerably. The only way to make 100 calls in 2.5 hours is with an autodialer that goes live to you when someone picks up and getting nothing but voicemails.

              Please - let's be realistic here.
              "Dont bore us , get to the chorus" is what they say in Nashville... If you cant establish interest in 45 seconds... move on. Even in a non automated environment telemarketers go through 4 yellow pages per day each.

              Edit:

              If 100 calls cant be made within 2.5 hours then you are requiring around 2 minutes per dial... if you cant dial 100 numbers and say a couple of short lines of pitch within 2.5 hours... especially given that you are only gonna get past the opening lines with about 10 out of that 100... then you are either making a few sales, or you are really really working at a slow pace.

              I n an average telemarketing room, anyone who cant make 100 calls in 2.5 hours... would last about 3 days.

              More than likely you will find some good prospects and be selling before you get to fifty calls.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigMack
      Originally Posted by dsprank View Post

      Great post. Telemarketing can really suck, but it does work. At least in the offline marketing world you would not have to do it forever if you have clients paying monthly. Put up with it for a few months and your business will be booming.
      AMEN TO THAT BROTHER! HAHaHaHAHA...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Green
    Thanks for the reminder to get out there and make the calls, it's so hard, but offline clients are worth every cent.
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    • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
      I have a friend who refuses to do this. He wants new clients, but he hates sales and won't spend money on expensive air time. Cold calling a few hours a day will get him more work than he has now...oh well. When I first started I cold called every ad agency in the state just about and ended up doing work for a few of them. Screw it. You gotta get money, you do what it takes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    You can outsource this.
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    • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      You can outsource this.
      This is true. But sometimes you need someone who can really sell it and knows the ins and outs of that industry. I worked in a call center and nothing sucks harder than trying to sell a product you no nothing about and don't believe in. It's so much easier to sell something you know and have knowledge of the industry. I hated cold calling older people about RV insurance when I knew jack about RVs or insurance. Customers can tell and many of them would call out callers like myself or others who didn't know what they hell they were talking about and just going through the motions on a script.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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        • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
          Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

          Sales and lead generation are two different functions. Personally I think of "closing" as another seperate function in and of itself.
          Absolutely! That's a whole other ballgame. Leave the closing to the pros!

          David Jackson
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      • Profile picture of the author David Jackson
        Originally Posted by swilliams09 View Post

        Sometimes you need someone who can really sell it and knows the ins and outs of that industry. I worked in a call center and nothing sucks harder than trying to sell a product you no nothing about and don't believe in. It's so much easier to sell something you know and have knowledge of the industry. I hated cold calling older people about RV insurance when I knew jack about RVs or insurance. Customers can tell and many of them would call out callers like myself or others who didn't know what they hell they were talking about and just going through the motions on a script.
        Exactly right. Prospects can usually tell when you know what you're talking about, and when you're faking it. The nicer one's will usually have pity on you, and go along for the ride. But the barracuda's will eat you alive!

        David Jackson
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post

          Exactly right. Prospects can usually tell when you know what you're talking about, and when you're faking it. The nicer one's will usually have pity on you, and go along for the ride. But the barracuda's will eat you alive!

          David Jackson
          So the best thing to do is route your way around the baracuda's... and if you see one, just politely say hi and move on as fast as possible.

          I guess this is aimed at people who arent all necessarily phone pros... ya know. It all starts with numbers and a pitch... thousands of people everyday read pitches they dont even understand, verbatim... and millions of dollars are generated.

          I was selling websites over the phone before I had ever even touched a computer or seen yahoo... from a canned pitch... didnt know what the hell I was talking about... selling 5 a day back in 200o.... a free web page that is submitted to yahoo for only 19.95 per month.

          For real, in a room of 100 telemarketers all doing the same... most of them just as ignorant.

          I later became the office manager of that place... still ignorant, but I knew how to make people stay on the phone and say the pitch, and they got sales.

          I guess I also remember something about lycos hot bot and excite being in the pitch... didnt know what they were but the phone script called them search engines.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      You can outsource this.
      Yes you can outsource this... in fact providing lead generation services, for everything from Insurance companies, to financing institutions, to siding windows and roof repair... make up about a 3rd of the whole telemarketing industry.

      "Exclusive telemarketed Lead Generation Services" is what one of my old companies did... mostly for Insurance agnecies...

      How did I get the contracts? I telemarketed Insurance companies.

      There are alot of virtual call centers who will be glad to set web appointments for you.


      Originally Posted by swilliams09 View Post

      This is true. But sometimes you need someone who can really sell it and knows the ins and outs of that industry. I worked in a call center and nothing sucks harder than trying to sell a product you no nothing about and don't believe in. It's so much easier to sell something you know and have knowledge of the industry. I hated cold calling older people about RV insurance when I knew jack about RVs or insurance. Customers can tell and many of them would call out callers like myself or others who didn't know what they hell they were talking about and just going through the motions on a script.
      Dont have them sell. Have them set appointments for the pro salespeople to call on them either fACE TO FACE OR VIA PHONE.

      Sales and lead generation are two different functions. Personally I think of "closing" as another seperate function in and of itself.
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      • Profile picture of the author amabaie
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        There are alot of virtual call centers who will be glad to set web appointments for you.
        Dont have them sell. Have them set appointments for the pro salespeople to call on them either fACE TO FACE OR VIA PHONE.

        Sales and lead generation are two different functions. Personally I think of "closing" as another seperate function in and of itself.
        This is my take-away. Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author T2007
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        There are alot of virtual call centers who will be glad to set web appointments for you.
        I've been thinking abut outsourcing but have no idea where to start. Can you please share an idea as to how to reach a good virtual call center to do the telemarketing?

        Thanks!
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        • Profile picture of the author joshril
          Originally Posted by T2007 View Post

          I've been thinking abut outsourcing but have no idea where to start. Can you please share an idea as to how to reach a good virtual call center to do the telemarketing?

          Thanks!
          Depending on where you live, Craigslist is a great place to start... You can recruit a "work at home" telemarketer. All you really need to do is provide them with a list and a script. The rest is up to them...

          Make sure you look for someone that has cold calling experience. You can also look at utilizing a service like CallFire which is a predictive dialer that your telemarketer can dial into for each calling session. CallFire offers different plans, but it will make your telemarketers more effective and will allow you to easily track the performance of your telemarketer.

          CallFire charges a fee for each hour of use... If you'd be more inclined to look at a dialer program with a monthly flat rate, Mojo is a good alternative.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fenshon
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      You can outsource this.
      Online or offline?
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      • Profile picture of the author joshril
        Originally Posted by perdanadhi View Post

        hmm.. honestly i think that's better...:rolleyes:
        I agree that in most cases outsourcing your cold calls is a smart idea. If you do it correctly, it can be quite lucrative, and in many cases you can hire an experienced telemarketer with virtually no money out of your pocket.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbode
    I'd rather have someone else call them just to find out who's interested enough to call me - without any hard selling at all, just curiosity based for the business owner... if that makes sense?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by jbode View Post

      I'd rather have someone else call them just to find out who's interested enough to call me - without any hard selling at all, just curiosity based for the business owner... if that makes sense?
      Yeah, you need a professional "appointment setter".

      The cost of having a telemarketer set appointments for you ranges from 10 bucks per hour to $100.00 per appointment or more depending on the size of the deal he is setting you up with.

      Usually you have to pay the fee in advance ie: "I want to order 10 appointments. Here's my $500 bucks_

      The general consensus is that appointment setters do not give refunds but they will reset or refill any bad appointments.

      They can set you up face to face appointments or phone appointments, whichever you like. Even transfer live leads to you in real time.

      Usual practice is that they will email you the lead the moment they hang up with customer, but you can opt to have calls transferred live to you as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
      Originally Posted by jbode View Post

      I'd rather have someone else call them just to find out who's interested enough to call me - without any hard selling at all, just curiosity based for the business owner... if that makes sense?
      I know exactly what you mean. A conversation never goes to waste. In fact, I think I have gotten more business lately from just being curious about people's businesses than straight "wanna hire me" calls.

      I truly want to know how people are doing and somewhere in the conversation I can mention, "You know, I do this thing where I help people get more customers with almost your same marketing budget". And then the conversation turns interesting!
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by RentItNow View Post

        I know exactly what you mean. A conversation never goes to waste. In fact, I think I have gotten more business lately from just being curious about people's businesses than straight "wanna hire me" calls.

        I truly want to know how people are doing and somewhere in the conversation I can mention, "You know, I do this thing where I help people get more customers with almost your same marketing budget". And then the conversation turns interesting!
        Casual. Conversational. No pressure. Matter of fact tone...but with "purpose". yup.
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  • Profile picture of the author Profit123
    Hello there! Since I am not a salesman by nature, cold calling seems to have a certain fright factor built in, and after reading your suggestions, I must admit that the intimidation factor is less-thanks for the pointers.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Whats intimidating about saying "hey Im a local webdesigner, just wondered if you folks ever thought about doin a website"?

      Or "Hi were just calling around offering business owners free rate comparisons on health Insurance... wondered if you folks could use one..."?

      Most horror stories about telemarketing come from "residential" marketing... B2B is quite different. The prospects are much more polite and receptive for the most part.

      Now when I ran a "fundraising for drug awareness" program... with about 60 tsrs... that was some HARDCORE prospecting... calling people at home... different ballgame, different approach. Think "Boiler Room".
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      • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
        Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

        Whats intimidating about saying "hey Im a local webdesigner, just wondered if you folks ever thought about doin a website"?

        Or "Hi were just calling around offering business owners free rate comparisons on health Insurance... wondered if you folks could use one..."?

        Most horror stories about telemarketing come from "residential" marketing... B2B is quite different. The prospects are much more polite and receptive for the most part.

        Now when I ran a "fundraising for drug awareness" program... with about 60 tsrs... that was some HARDCORE prospecting... calling people at home... different ballgame, different approach. Think "Boiler Room".
        Good points. thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    1: A person
    2: A list
    3: A script
    4: A phone.
    5: A willingness to make 100 phone calls, and expect a 3-5% conversion rate (2 in the bag and 3 in the pipeline).
    Well, the reality is:
    Doing it this way is an extremely and I mean EXTREMELY hard work.
    And just because it is possible to take an extremely hard route I don't see any reason doing so.
    There are much easier ways.

    I think telemarketing is mostly dead already and will soon die completely.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

      Well, the reality is:
      Doing it this way is an extremely and I mean EXTREMELY hard work.
      And just because it is possible to take an extremely hard route I don't see any reason doing so.
      There are much easier ways.

      I think telemarketing is mostly dead already and will soon die completely.
      Telemarketing B2B is nowhere near dead and likely never will be.
      And, as the OP describes his method, there is absolutely nothing
      about it that even resembles extremely hard work.

      Tsnyder
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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      • Profile picture of the author Gaurav Duggal
        Great post

        Here's a simple way to take the "Fear" and uncertainty out of cold calling.

        1. Get a list of prospects. This is easy enough...but here are a few ways to get started
        • Scan the Yellow Pages
        • Scan ads in newspapers for companies who are consitently advertising
        • Scan ads on google adwords for companies that are consitently advertising
        • Get a business list through a local listbroker (google "city name" list broker to get a list of brokers)

        2. Hire some commission salespeople to make the calls, and give them a generous percentage for sales. To get sales people you can
        • Post an ad in the newspaper classifieds
        • Post an ad on online classified sites
        • Hire outsourcers from a good enlish speaking country
        • Get an overseas firm to handle everything, such as brick works

        3. Manage your team and your leads well

        4. Rinse and repeat

        If this all sounds simple, its because it really is if you want to put the effort in to get the ball rolling.

        Bonus point: Once you have a few happy clients, use them to generate leads for you. Pay out 10% or so for qualified referals, and you'll never have to worry about getting leads again.

        Thats it, now go and implement this system and grow your business.
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      • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        And, as the OP describes his method, there is absolutely nothing
        about it that even resembles extremely hard work.
        Yes, and that is the big difference between theory and practice.
        In theory (i.e. as OP describes his method) there is absolutely nothing about it that even resembles extremely hard work.
        But in reality i.e. when you actually start doing it, you'll soon discover that this is probably the hardest route there is.
        But the funny thing is: It's not easy to describe how the reality feels. You'll only know this after you've actually experienced it.


        Having said that, there will always be a (very) small percentage of people who won't experience it as "hard."
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

          Yes, and that is the big difference between theory and practice.
          In theory (i.e. as OP describes his method) there is absolutely nothing about it that even resembles extremely hard work.
          But in reality i.e. when you actually start doing it, you'll soon discover that this is probably the hardest route there is.
          But the funny thing is: It's not easy to describe how the reality feels. You'll only know this after you've actually experienced it.


          Having said that, there will always be a (very) small percentage of people who won't experience it as "hard."
          In reality, it is you picking up the phone right now and in the next two hours getting results.

          alot of things are technique, the latest system... but my friend COLD CALLING is "principle" it works, and in reality spending 2 hours on the phone to get a sale every day starting from now forward... is less theoretical than the idea that in the next hour you are gonna create an online funnelling system that generates as many leads... while its possible, the LIKELIHOOD, is slim to none... in theory it should blow up your email box though with minimal effort right?

          It happens but having that kind of funneling system is HARD to come by... calling people sayin "hey you want a website" ? Isnt hard, it just requires the disciplin to sit and do it. Just like writing an article...

          Like I said bust out some cheerios and milk... put on your favorite tv show to watch low in the back ground and sit back and say ONE SENTENCE to anyone that answers the phone...

          If your pitch goes beyond one sentence its a pleasant surprise that means you are 50% of the way to a sale.
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          • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            It happens but having that kind of funneling system is HARD to come by... calling people sayin "hey you want a website" ? Isnt hard, it just requires the disciplin to sit and do it. Just like writing an article...
            This part is WRONG. It requires a WHOLE LOT more than just discipline.
            It requires dealing with rejection and disapproval. THAT is the hard part of this method. Everything else is easy as pie. But you didn't even mention this extremely hard part...
            For most people rejection and disapproval FEELS like cutting themselves with a knife.
            That's why almost everyone will try to avoid this method at all cost -- even though it is possible to generate some sales this way.


            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Like I said bust out some cheerios and milk... put on your favorite tv show to watch low in the back ground and sit back and say ONE SENTENCE to anyone that answers the phone...
            Now, here you are getting *completely unrealistic*.
            I can only interpret that sentence as a JOKE.
            Because if you were serious about that, that would mean that you've never actually tried this method and are only talking about theory. So, I hope that was meant to be a joke.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
              Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

              Now, here you are getting *completely unrealistic*.
              I can only interpret that sentence as a JOKE.
              Because if you were serious about that, that would mean that you've never actually tried this method and are only talking about theory. So, I hope that was meant to be a joke.
              I have to say John is right - and IS realistic.

              When I have needed to cold call over the years, that description (pour a bowl of cereal and milk and watch tv in the background is EXACTLY what I have done - maybe not cereal, but a sub sandwich lol

              There's something about being a bit distracted that makes it all easier. It has to be a case of, "i don't really care" ...and then you can get on with the job you need to do.

              And having been in a training of John's sometime back I am very convinced he has done what he's saying. There's no way he's talking theory.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamespitt
    Hi there,

    I've got a great telesales guy who could with some extra work, if anyone needs some calling doing over the next few weeks. He's in the Philippines, but has a good accent & a great attitude. I know he needs some extra money at the moment. Drop me a PM for more details.

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author Davwik
    interestingly this thread is inspired by those in the Americas, has anyone from Europe or Australia got a viewpoint on this subject
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  • Profile picture of the author Chad Heffelfinger
    I find it very interesting that there are methods that are proven to work, but people dont' like to do, so they avoid them at all costs. (I can be guilty of this myself)

    Most people would rather avoid the sure thing that is difficult or out of their comfort zone and search for the "easy" solution that may or may not work.

    Meanwhile the ones who put in the effort and do the things they don't enjoy, reap the rewards, while the ones searching for the easy fix end up still searching.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
      Originally Posted by Chad Heffelfinger View Post

      I find it very interesting that there are methods that are proven to work, but people dont' like to do, so they avoid them at all costs. (I can be guilty of this myself)

      Most people would rather avoid the sure thing that is difficult or out of their comfort zone and search for the "easy" solution that may or may not work.
      Well, IF you're unsure whether or not the "easy" solution will work, then you surely can try the hard method that *one* person says it works for *him*.
      Of course, that essentially means that you don't really *know* whether or not it will work for you. But you can try it regardless.

      However, I think that given the choice hiking to a city that is 100 miles away OR driving to that city in a car on a highway, most people would prefer the highway in a car.
      You can blame the comfort zone for that. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

        Well, IF you're unsure whether or not the "easy" solution will work, then you surely can try the hard method that *one* person says it works for *him*.
        Of course, that essentially means that you don't really *know* whether or not it will work for you. But you can try it regardless.

        However, I think that given the choice hiking to a city that is 100 miles away OR driving to that city in a car on a highway, most people would prefer the highway in a car.
        You can blame the comfort zone for that. :-)

        Yes if they have cars and know how to drive this makes sense... but there is a reason that big boards of directors at places like ATT, Verizon... The cable company.... major players employ thousands of telemarketers.

        So no... its not just workin for ONE person... sorry. Thats very narrow minded... and the truth is self evident. Telemarketing Works not just for me but for large corporations.

        Human contact will always be the most solid way to get a lead...

        You can do it from the internet... if you can funnel 10 leads out of 1000 impressions... lots of people do it, but if you arent one who can or is, and you want to make money this week... get a phone book out.

        A bird in hand is better than two in a bush.

        Put it this way, if your life was dependent on getting two sales this week, and you could not afford to miss....would you call an seo expert , or pickup a phone book and cold call 100 people?

        I know what I would do, but its not the only way...
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        • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          ... but there is a reason that big boards of directors at places like ATT, Verizon... The cable company.... major players employ thousands of telemarketers.

          So no... its not just workin for ONE person... sorry. Thats very narrow minded... and the truth is self evident. Telemarketing Works not just for me but for large corporations.
          You are comparing apples to oranges.
          Do you know how quickly people working in telemarketing at those "large corporations" come and go?

          Also, telemarketing is not telemarketing. One thing is to take calls from existing customers.
          A completely different thing is to make *cold calls*.
          Everyone who ever tried doing cold calls knows from experience how HARD it actually is. Although it appears very easy in theory.

          And as you can see in one of my earlier posts, I didn't say that this method doesn't work per se.
          I said that this is probably the hardest method there is. Not hardest in theory but hardest when you actually try doing it.


          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Yes if they have cars and know how to drive this makes sense...
          It's pretty easy to learn how to drive and a car can be acquired very cheaply. For example, you can rent a car for a few bucks. Or you can buy a used one. Or just borrow one for free. Hitchhiking is also an option.


          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          but my friend COLD CALLING is "principle" it works, and in reality spending 2 hours on the phone to get a sale every day starting from now forward
          I never said that it doesn't work. And "2 hours" sounds like a really quick solution.
          What I said was basically:
          In reality it is extremely hard to actually do this. And most people will find themselves *avoiding* those "2 hours" at all cost -- even if they managed to make a sale within the first 2 hours.
          And that's the reason why most people WILL FAIL with this method.
          Not because the method doesn't work, but because almost everyone will avoid this method once they actually try it and experience for themselves how hard it actually is.


          Originally Posted by wkathome View Post

          Now if only the phone didn't weigh 500 lbs. :-)
          That's what I'm talking about!
          Everyone *knows* that a phone is a very light piece of plastic.
          But when you actually start doing it, the phone starts *feeling* like it weighs 500 lbs. And if it FEELS like 500 lbs then you can't actually lift it.
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          • Profile picture of the author dsprank
            Anne,

            You used hard at least four times in just this one post.

            I grew up on a farm, which is where I learned to work really hard. Then I got out of high school and got a job at a telemarketing company the same summer I graduated. I thought it was great getting paid to just make phone calls in air conditioning instead of busting my butt fixing fences, baling hay, or any of the other chores that needed to be done in 90 degree Iowa weather. I worked there for seven years until one day i forgot how hard real physical work is on the body.

            I quit my job at the telemarketing company, because I thought I did not want to do sales anymore, and went to work for a concrete company. That was extremly hard, and the turnover was far worse than at the telemarketing company. It did not take me long to realize how good I had it back in the air conditioning. I then went to work at a car dealership and never again thought of working like that again.

            Telemarketing still works. Just an example, about three years before I left that telemarketing company they brought in a new client, Qwest Long Distance. I had more rejection calling for them than any of the others that I worked with. Just recently I talked to one of my friends that still works there, and he said that they are still a client of theirs, and they were paying about $36 an hour to the company when I was there. Even in a oversaturated market like long distance, there are sales to be made.

            Offline marketing is nowhere near saturated, and it never will be anywhere as bad as long distance has been.

            Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

            You are comparing apples to oranges.
            Do you know how quickly people working in telemarketing at those "large corporations" come and go?

            Also, telemarketing is not telemarketing. One thing is to take calls from existing customers.
            A completely different thing is to make *cold calls*.
            Everyone who ever tried doing cold calls knows from experience how HARD it actually is. Although it appears very easy in theory.

            And as you can see in one of my earlier posts, I didn't say that this method doesn't work per se.
            I said that this is probably the hardest method there is. Not hardest in theory but hardest when you actually try doing it.

            It's pretty easy to learn how to drive and a car can be acquired very cheaply. For example, you can rent a car for a few bucks. Or you can buy a used one. Or just borrow one for free. Hitchhiking is also an option.

            I never said that it doesn't work. And "2 hours" sounds like a really quick solution.
            What I said was basically:
            In reality it is extremely hard to actually do this. And most people will find themselves *avoiding* those "2 hours" at all cost -- even if they managed to make a sale within the first 2 hours.
            And that's the reason why most people WILL FAIL with this method.
            Not because the method doesn't work, but because almost everyone will avoid this method once they actually try it and experience for themselves how hard it actually is.

            That's what I'm talking about!
            Everyone *knows* that a phone is a very light piece of plastic.
            But when you actually start doing it, the phone starts *feeling* like it weighs 500 lbs. And if it FEELS like 500 lbs then you can't actually lift it.
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    • Profile picture of the author keithoz88
      Hmmmmm.
      After 25 years in selling, including 7 years on a phone, appointment making for myself and others, phone closing sales, even short stints in real boiler rooms in Bangkok and Manila, i can tell you one thing.
      Whether you find it easy or hard is up to YOU - your mindset and focus (and sense of humour)

      Johns' suggestion is to go for what in Australia is called "low hanging fruit"
      You are looking for nice people who have a self-perceived need to fill.
      THIS IS THE EASIEST PHONE WORK IN THE WORLD Period.

      For a self employed service provider it is the absolute best way to start - and its easier than you think once you relax and just make the calls (you lose fear when you relax into a rythmm of calling).

      Each day you talk to a lot of people, most will be polite, some will be good people, who will refer you to other good people and one day you will find you are only talking to good people

      One day making cold calls will be just a memory.
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  • Profile picture of the author wkathome
    Lot of food for thought on this discussion, thanks for all the input. Now if only the phone didn't weigh 500 lbs. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ AnneRose88

    Yes not only in telemarketing but affiliate marketing, article marketing, google marketing, blog, facebook marketing... the list goes on... there is alot of turnover...

    Its a fact that most opportunity seekers will never succeed. The reason is because they dont hang for the hard parts.

    There are 100 ways to skin a cat... this is just one's contribution and experience.

    But I'll still bet if you tried it for two hours, and REALLY meant that try.... You would get clients or at least appointments worth $500. to 2k potential...

    This is all given that you are indeed a business person (not you personally) who has the potential to actually be in business and carry on a business conversation. That is a given. Truly, I have found 1 decent telemarketer for every 5 I've hired... however in the case of starting your own offline business: If you cant say a simple pitch you're doomed anyway... you have to be able to do business.

    Just sayin

    No matter what you do do.... a basic requirment for success is that you have to be a mover and shaker, or else there wouldnt be any glory in saying "Im successful".
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    • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      But I'll still bet if you tried it for two hours, and REALLY meant that try....
      Hmm... don't you think that if I'm posting here (especially after what I've said above), that I must have tried and I mean REALLY tried this method?

      Hint: I tried it not just for two hours but for WAAAY more than that.
      And I didn't just "try."
      I used to really believe in this method and I've got one of the best telemarketing trainings you can get...

      So, I know from experience that this method does work.
      And I also know that this method is probably the hardest there is and for this reason most people will fail with this method (because they will try to avoid doing it at all cost).
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

        Hmm... don't you think that if I'm posting here (especially after what I've said above), that I must have tried and I mean REALLY tried this method?

        Hint: I tried it not just for two hours but for WAAAY more than that.
        And I didn't just "try."
        I used to really believe in this method and I've got one of the best telemarketing trainings you can get...

        So, I know from experience that this method does work.
        And I also know that this method is probably the hardest there is and for this reason most people will fail with this method (because they will try to avoid doing it at all cost).
        Woop there it is...

        I knew it. Anne... do you want me to help you? Or have you moved onto a different method by now?
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        • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Woop there it is...

          I knew it. Anne... do you want me to help you? Or have you moved onto a different method by now?
          Help me? John, you must be kidding again.
          Cold calling was what I did to get clients for my first two companies. So, it was my main method to get offline clients. I estimate that I'm probably better at cold calling than 80% of people who do this. And yet, from my today's standpoint I would NOT recommend cold calling to anyone.
          And claiming "you will never fail" with this method is wrong in my opinion.
          I bet at least 90% WILL FAIL. Not because the method doesn't work but because this method is the hardest to my knowledge. Most will fail because they'll simply avoid this method once they learn how hard it actually is in reality.

          Anyway, my point is:
          Although this method works, it's the hardest and most ineffective method to get offline clients. (or any clients for that matter)
          Also, with this method you will only get clients of low or mediocre quality. With these clients your earnings will usually be below average and time you spent working for them will usually be way above average.
          So, personally I would not even want such clients today.

          Having said that:
          If someone would be happy to get *any* clients AND is not afraid to face tons of rejection, then he or she should try this method to get started. But I bet even people who manage to get clients with this method will try to replace it with other methods ASAP.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

            Help me? John, you must be kidding again.
            Cold calling was what I did to get clients for my first two companies. So, it was my main method to get offline clients. I estimate that I'm probably better at cold calling than 80% of people who do this. And yet, from my today's standpoint I would NOT recommend cold calling to anyone.
            And claiming "you will never fail" with this method is wrong in my opinion.
            I bet at least 90% WILL FAIL. Not because the method doesn't work but because this method is the hardest to my knowledge. Most will fail because they'll simply avoid this method once they learn how hard it actually is in reality.

            Anyway, my point is:
            Although this method works, it's the hardest and most ineffective method to get offline clients. (or any clients for that matter)
            Also, with this method you will only get clients of low or mediocre quality. With these clients your earnings will usually be below average and time you spent working for them will usually be way above average.
            So, personally I would not even want such clients today.

            Having said that:
            If someone would be happy to get *any* clients AND is not afraid to face tons of rejection, then he or she should try this method to get started. But I bet even people who manage to get clients with this method will try to replace it with other methods ASAP.
            Cool. Maybe I was presumptious. Thank you for your contributions because they certainly have lead the thread in some interesting directions , so people have even more perspective when they read.

            I think the general consensus in this thread is this.

            Yes, we would all love passive lead generation, and that is what the warrior forum is all about, but if you need business now while you are in the process of chasing that end... telemarketing will put food on the table... and you CANT FAIL... really.

            I myself hope to have passive income one day... and there are many models that will create that, in the process (journey)though Telemarketing saves my butt when I need it. I truly believe that if a person can learn it, thewill absolutely never be a slave to anyone else again... cept maybe their customers, depending on how well they design their business model.

            I know if I can get motivated enough to pick up a phone... I can pull a grand in any 72 hour period whenever I need to...
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          • Profile picture of the author James Foster
            Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

            Help me? John, you must be kidding again.
            Cold calling was what I did to get clients for my first two companies. So, it was my main method to get offline clients. I estimate that I'm probably better at cold calling than 80% of people who do this. And yet, from my today's standpoint I would NOT recommend cold calling to anyone.
            And claiming "you will never fail" with this method is wrong in my opinion.
            I bet at least 90% WILL FAIL. Not because the method doesn't work but because this method is the hardest to my knowledge. Most will fail because they'll simply avoid this method once they learn how hard it actually is in reality.

            Anyway, my point is:
            Although this method works, it's the hardest and most ineffective method to get offline clients. (or any clients for that matter)
            Also, with this method you will only get clients of low or mediocre quality. With these clients your earnings will usually be below average and time you spent working for them will usually be way above average.
            So, personally I would not even want such clients today.

            Having said that:
            If someone would be happy to get *any* clients AND is not afraid to face tons of rejection, then he or she should try this method to get started. But I bet even people who manage to get clients with this method will try to replace it with other methods ASAP.
            Anne, I've read a lot of your posts in this thread and you not only talk down telemarketing, but you also say there are many better ways to do it.... although I've yet to see you give any suggestions or methods of a better way to do it.

            Instead of just ragging on the OP it would be helpful to hear what's worked for you. Case studies make for a great read and would back up your position, if in fact, you're not just blowing smoke
            ----------------------------
            What I got out of this whole thread (and OP correct me if I've got this all wrong) is it would be helpful to people, to think of telemarketing like a baseball game.

            The best in the world strike out 70% of the time. And the reason their the best, and the reason they're paid so well, isn't because of the times they hit the ball - it's because of their mental attitude that even though they know they're going going to strike out 7 times out of 10 and still swing for the fences every time they get up to bat.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

            Anyway, my point is:
            Although this method works, it's the hardest
            You've said that a bunch of times now.

            You don't seem to realise that your comment is just about your subjective experience.

            I don't see sitting in front of the tv and making phone calls as hard - that's almost the easiest thing you could possibly do.

            Hard? come on!!

            How can you call making phone calls hard?

            Even a child could do it.

            So to come here and keep saying "it's hard" and "people will fail" just seems crazy.

            Now - if YOU have emotional problems and can't handle rejection when you telephone a stranger to try and sell them something that's down to you - it has zero bearing on whether anyone else would have that experience.

            I can tell you that I would have no such experience - I could phone 1000 people and not be bothered in the slightest, whatever they said.

            I do agree that there are better ways but 'hard' - hardly.
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            • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              You've said that a bunch of times now.

              You don't seem to realise that your comment is just about your subjective experience.
              I do realize this. And I said at least once that this is my opinion. And I said a couple of times that *most* people will experience it this way. I never said it would be hard for everyone. Not everyone, but at least for for 95-98% this is the hardest thing to do and they will avoid doing this at all cost.

              I know this from experience. (I worked with several hundred people)



              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              I don't see sitting in front of the tv and making phone calls as hard - that's almost the easiest thing you could possibly do.
              With all due respect, this quote shows that you have not the slightest idea about cold calling. Well, you have an idea but it's wrong and has nothing to do with reality.
              "Sitting in front of the TV while making cold calls" is a JOKE!
              You are implying that you could be doing something enjoyable and relaxing while doing cold calls and you are implying that cold calls require almost no serious attention.
              NOTHING could be further from the truth!
              The exact opposite of your assumption is the case! (assuming, of course, that you don't just want to make cold calls but also want to generate some positive results i.e. make appointments etc.)


              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              How can you call making phone calls hard?
              I said this already before. In theory it seems to be easy as pie.
              Once you try actually doing it you will learn very quickly how hard it in REALITY is.


              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              So to come here and keep saying "it's hard" and "people will fail" just seems crazy.
              It's not crazy. It's based on a LOT of experience. Real life experience. And not just my personal experience but experience of several hundred people. (personally I'm very good at cold calling and still I experience it as very hard and extremely ineffective)
              You on the other hand seem to be talking about theory.


              Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

              I can tell you that I would have no such experience - I could phone 1000 people and not be bothered in the slightest, whatever they said.
              You are saying "I would" - "I could" which means you've NOT done it in real life.
              And that's what I'm talking about.
              In theory you "would" and you "could."
              But once you actually start doing it in reality you'll realize very quickly that even though you "would" and you "could" you want to avoid doing this at all cost!
              And you'll realize how hard it is to get yourself to actually do it. Even though you "could."
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              • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

                You are saying "I would" - "I could" which means you've NOT done it in real life.
                And that's what I'm talking about.
                In theory you "would" and you "could."
                But once you actually start doing it in reality you'll realize very quickly that even though you "would" and you "could" you want to avoid doing this at all cost!
                And you'll realize how hard it is to get yourself to actually do it. Even though you "could."
                Sorry but it doesn't mean that at all - I have done this and I have trained others to do this - and in my EXPERIENCE - it was NOT the big deal that you're making out to be.

                Sure some people aren't cut out for it - they find it boring and get demoralised by the large percentage of people that are not interested.

                But that in my EXPERIENCE is a small percentage and not the majority - let alone 95% as you claim.

                There are always people who have problems with situations that they're not comfortable in - often that includes public speaking in many forms and talking to strangers.

                But if that's you - then cold calling seems like a very poor choice of activities, so why would you even do it? That's like an alcoholic deciding bar work is a good idea.

                The reason I don't cold call these days is that I have more enjoyable ways to get my business that work well and have better conversion rates - but this thread isn't aimed at established people who already have a good stream of customers - it's about letting people that are struggling know that when you cut back all the talk - taking action in this way IS going to work for you.

                I hate any strategy that comes down to a numbers game like this - but this strategy does have the one thing that I think is important and that many IMers often assume they can't have - expectations of outcome.

                If you do call businesses in this way it literally is just a matter of time before you get a new client.

                There's no way you can completely fail.

                Obviously the more you refine your process and the more targeted and compelling your offer is - the better you'll do.

                It's also been suggested that you don't even need to do this yourself.

                I have experience that supports both situations (DIY and outsourced) so I also KNOW that this is NOT 'hard'.

                Hard is a relative term and to use it as a generalisation is just wrong, especially in this instance where something very simple is the case in point.

                To say that you can't sit in front of the TV and do this is just WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!!

                You can.

                I have.

                Others here have.

                I often have the tv on (sometimes muted) while I'm doing coaching calls, interviews, videos, even radio shows.

                Having the TV on does not mean you can't get results on the phone - the two things are not related.

                Getting results is all about what you say and how you say it.

                If you have your script down pat and know how to handle variations and new objections - you barely have to think about it at all.

                Especially in the context we're talking about.

                If you know your stuff it's easy.

                If you don't know what you're talking about or you don't understand the situation of the people you're calling then you're not helping yourself.

                The ONLY time this could even remotely be considered 'hard' is if you take someone with emotional issues are either depressed or nervous about talking to others and force them to do it. But why the hell would you do that? They shouldn't even be wanting to do it, let alone choose it as a career.
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  • Profile picture of the author Easy Cash
    John,

    You have the 'bull by the balls' - good on ya. You will never go hungry.

    People like you are rare.

    If you can cold call and make money, then you are the true entrepreneur.

    Keep up the good work !
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  • Profile picture of the author abednego
    Its not easy, but doable. Persistence is key.

    2% conversion rate is very conservative if you're able to have a good tone, not sound like a recording, and have done your research on who to contact.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by abednego View Post

      Its not easy, but doable. Persistence is key.

      2% conversion rate is very conservative if you're able to have a good tone, not sound like a recording, and have done your research on who to contact.
      Yes Im trying lowball the figure (3-5%) so people wont get discouraged easily and will suprise themselves. Personally my conversion ratio is more like 10-15%.
      2% is fine though as long as you know how many numbers it will take to hit your target.
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  • Profile picture of the author joshril
    Cold-calling is one the fastest ways to get in front of people and it still works incredibly well. I recently posted this on my member's only forum to help put things into perspective:

    I'm looking for a telemarketer to spend 4 hours per day on the phone cold-calling small business owners. The pay is $1,500 per week which is $75,000 per year.

    I know that a lot of you would probably take me up on an offer like this. Why would you do this for me, but not do this for yourself?

    Think about it...

    Here's what you'd need:

    -Phone

    -List - (List broker, Yellow page scraper, InfoUSA, Sales Genie Lite, GoLeads, etc.)

    -Script (Hi, this is... I'd like to give you some ideas about you can make your existing marketing more effective...)

    Here are the numbers:

    Let's make a conservative estimate that the service you're offering has a $400 profit margin. (Social media setup, Google maps, SEO report, mobile website, etc.)

    You call for 4 hours per day, 5 days per week.

    My average lead generation rate when calling business owners is around 1.5-2 leads per hour on the phone.

    Let's be conservative and work with 1.5 leads per hour... (You can double this quite easily if you decide to use a predictive dialer, but that's a discussion for another thread).

    1.5 leads per hour multiplied by 4 hours per day = 6 leads per day.

    6 x 5 days per week = 30 leads per week.

    So, to hit your $1,600 per week, you've just got to make 4 sales out of 30 leads, which is incredibly realistic.

    If you totally miss the mark and only make 2 sales... you're still making $800 for the week which is $41,600 per year and 3 sales per week based on these numbers is $62,400 per year.

    What if your profit margin per sale were $1,000 or $1,500? Could you land one deal out of 30 leads?

    Profit margin is a big variable because there are a lot of services you can offer your clients, but even looking at incredibly conservative numbers it's obvious that to be successful only requires some action.

    Thanks,


    Joshua
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by joshril View Post

      Cold-calling is one the fastest ways to get in front of people and it still works incredibly well. I recently posted this on my member's only forum to help put things into perspective:

      I'm looking for a telemarketer to spend 4 hours per day on the phone cold-calling small business owners. The pay is $1,500 per week which is $75,000 per year.

      I know that a lot of you would probably take me up on an offer like this. Why would you do this for me, but not do this for yourself?

      Think about it...

      Here's what you'd need:

      -Phone

      -List - (List broker, Yellow page scraper, InfoUSA, Sales Genie Lite, GoLeads, etc.)

      -Script (Hi, this is... I'd like to give you some ideas about you can make your existing marketing more effective...)

      Here are the numbers:

      Let's make a conservative estimate that the service you're offering has a $400 profit margin. (Social media setup, Google maps, SEO report, mobile website, etc.)

      You call for 4 hours per day, 5 days per week.

      My average lead generation rate when calling business owners is around 1.5-2 leads per hour on the phone.

      Let's be conservative and work with 1.5 leads per hour... (You can double this quite easily if you decide to use a predictive dialer, but that's a discussion for another thread).

      1.5 leads per hour multiplied by 4 hours per day = 6 leads per day.

      6 x 5 days per week = 30 leads per week.

      So, to hit your $1,600 per week, you've just got to make 4 sales out of 30 leads, which is incredibly realistic.

      If you totally miss the mark and only make 2 sales... you're still making $800 for the week which is $41,600 per year and 3 sales per week based on these numbers is $62,400 per year.

      What if your profit margin per sale were $1,000 or $1,500? Could you land one deal out of 30 leads?

      Profit margin is a big variable because there are a lot of services you can offer your clients, but even looking at incredibly conservative numbers it's obvious that to be successful only requires some action.

      Thanks,


      Joshua
      Yup, all it takes is a phone and and an offer with even a $2-$400 profit margin and you could replace two fulltime day jobs in 4-5 hours per day. Love this post. Thanks for the contribution!!!

      We are really helping people with this. I have never worried about offline market getting saturated because there are a few guys out there making direct contact.... and the rest are spending six months at a time trying to figure out how to funnel one decent lead through their website...

      On the other hand you have huge telemarketing rooms doing it all day, but the telemarketers dont really know crap about how to help a business person...

      I dont see huge competition with that being the case... either way, the proof is in the pudding - everytime I pick up the phone I find business.

      It will NEVER be saturated.
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    • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
      Banned
      Thanks! Great layout. I guess I better get started on my script.

      It's hard to get started because your first feel calls are always so nervous since as with anything when you're starting out.

      Also must learn to take a lot of rejection...

      Do you have any tutorials on how to create a script and tips on cold calling?
      Originally Posted by joshril View Post

      Cold-calling is one the fastest ways to get in front of people and it still works incredibly well. I recently posted this on my member's only forum to help put things into perspective:

      I'm looking for a telemarketer to spend 4 hours per day on the phone cold-calling small business owners. The pay is $1,500 per week which is $75,000 per year.

      I know that a lot of you would probably take me up on an offer like this. Why would you do this for me, but not do this for yourself?

      Think about it...

      Here's what you'd need:

      -Phone

      -List - (List broker, Yellow page scraper, InfoUSA, Sales Genie Lite, GoLeads, etc.)

      -Script (Hi, this is... I'd like to give you some ideas about you can make your existing marketing more effective...)

      Here are the numbers:

      Let's make a conservative estimate that the service you're offering has a $400 profit margin. (Social media setup, Google maps, SEO report, mobile website, etc.)

      You call for 4 hours per day, 5 days per week.

      My average lead generation rate when calling business owners is around 1.5-2 leads per hour on the phone.

      Let's be conservative and work with 1.5 leads per hour... (You can double this quite easily if you decide to use a predictive dialer, but that's a discussion for another thread).

      1.5 leads per hour multiplied by 4 hours per day = 6 leads per day.

      6 x 5 days per week = 30 leads per week.

      So, to hit your $1,600 per week, you've just got to make 4 sales out of 30 leads, which is incredibly realistic.

      If you totally miss the mark and only make 2 sales... you're still making $800 for the week which is $41,600 per year and 3 sales per week based on these numbers is $62,400 per year.

      What if your profit margin per sale were $1,000 or $1,500? Could you land one deal out of 30 leads?

      Profit margin is a big variable because there are a lot of services you can offer your clients, but even looking at incredibly conservative numbers it's obvious that to be successful only requires some action.

      Thanks,


      Joshua
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      • Profile picture of the author dsprank
        Originally Posted by humbledmarket View Post

        Thanks! Great layout. I guess I better get started on my script.

        It's hard to get started because your first feel calls are always so nervous since as with anything when you're starting out.

        Also must learn to take a lot of rejection...

        Do you have any tutorials on how to create a script and tips on cold calling?
        You don't have to take any rejection. It is not a personal attack when someone says no to you, it is just business. Here is what I have put together and use it word for word every time.

        "Hi, I'm hoping, you can help me out for a moment.

        I'm just giving you a call to see if you'd be open to a different perspective
        on identifying areas of your online marketing that are not working for you.

        I'm sorry, this is Dave with (my companies name). What we do is we help identify the areas of
        your online strategies that are not working and costing you money.
        I noticed you're paying Google for leads, and it looks like you are spending
        a good amount of money every month for these leads.

        ,and because of it i thought that my phone call might be pretty timely to introduce
        myself and my company to you (your companies name).

        We haven't had a chance to work together, so we don't know each other yet. But if it would make sense
        to you, I would like to email you our companies white paper. It will clearly differentiate us from the crowd
        and will show you how we can get you ranked on page one of google for the keywords that will bring
        in the most leads for you and your business

        And while you are taking a look at our whitepaper, I will be looking over your website, and letting you
        know what changes need to be made in order to get it where you want it to be. So even if you do not
        find any value or benefit in talking with me any further, You have no obligation of continuing
        working with me. I just want to present a few ideas, and you let me know what you feel
        most comfortable with. If not, let me know, and then I'm fine with that.

        What is your email address?"

        If they say no once, let them go.

        If there is any interest I send them a whitepaper. I bought a few wso's that had a whitepaper or report and customized it to what I sell.

        I then call them back in a few days. I do not have a script at that point. I just go over some points with them, and most of the time they are questioning me, which shows some interest. And at that point it is no longer a cold call. In about an hour and a half, I will have sent out about 14 whitepapers. Sure not all of them buy, mostly because of higher price, but I would rather have 20 customers with high profit margins than 100 for the same pay.

        Your action plan:

        1. Put together a whitepaper
        2. Spend an hour practicing the script until you can say it without looking at it
        3. Get on the phone

        Once you pull the band aid off and jump in, you will find that telemarketing is not as difficult as some make it sound.

        I can promise you that if you do it this way, rejection will not be very hard on you at all. It's only as intimidating as you make it.
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  • Profile picture of the author BeauJustin
    Here's a neat little trick to speed up the process of dialing numbers.
    Get an upgraded Skype account which lets you call landline phone
    numbers. I have the worldwide account which is $12.95 per month.

    Skype automatically detects phone numbers on webpages, and
    highlights them with a quick launch icon, so you can double click
    it and make the call. No dialing necessary.

    Now, you might be saying "yeah, but they have a web site dufus".

    My answer to that, apart from agreeing with you that I'm a dufus,
    is to go to business aggregate sites like Company Profiles & Company Information on Manta, which
    list ALL businesses by geographic location, and gives their current
    phone number - regardless of whether or not they have a website.

    No ink on the fingers, no misdialed numbers, paper cuts, or deciding
    which yellow book to use. Grab one, find a category, search it in
    Manta, along with your city and state - and BAM! (I watch the Food
    Network too).

    I've found that I can make about 30-50 more calls this way in about
    the same amount of time.

    The downside is that you have to have a pretty decent connection.
    And sometimes Skype generates some weird vocal abberations when
    it digitizes your voice, but overall it's pretty effective. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Your post may be unpopular with some people who want to avoid methods like cold calling but it does highlight a very important principle...

      The fastest way to get businesses as paying clients is to contact them directly.

      You can do that on the telephone, in person, by mail, by email...etc etc.

      The closer you get to you being face to face with a business owner the higher your chances of getting hired.

      All these methods take some skill, most take some motivation.

      Over the last few years I've observed that the people who finally just start getting in regular contact with business owners are the ones who start making money the fastest.

      If you're still trying to get local businesses as paying clients and not having much luck then it's probably long overdue that you just pick up the phone or go see some in person, go to the next business networking meeting etc etc and keep doing that consistently until you see some real results.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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      Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Peters Benn
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        Your post may be unpopular with some people who want to avoid methods like cold calling but it does highlight a very important principle...

        The fastest way to get businesses as paying clients is to contact them directly.

        You can do that on the telephone, in person, by mail, by email...etc etc.

        The closer you get to you being face to face with a business owner the higher your chances of getting hired.

        All these methods take some skill, most take some motivation.

        Over the last few years I've observed that the people who finally just start getting in regular contact with business owners are the ones who start making money the fastest.

        If you're still trying to get local businesses as paying clients and not having much luck then it's probably long overdue that you just pick up the phone or go see some in person, go to the next business networking meeting etc etc and keep doing that consistently until you see some real results.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        This is GOLD dust.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        Your post may be unpopular with some people who want to avoid methods like cold calling but it does highlight a very important principle...

        The fastest way to get businesses as paying clients is to contact them directly.

        You can do that on the telephone, in person, by mail, by email...etc etc.

        The closer you get to you being face to face with a business owner the higher your chances of getting hired.

        All these methods take some skill, most take some motivation.

        Over the last few years I've observed that the people who finally just start getting in regular contact with business owners are the ones who start making money the fastest.

        If you're still trying to get local businesses as paying clients and not having much luck then it's probably long overdue that you just pick up the phone or go see some in person, go to the next business networking meeting etc etc and keep doing that consistently until you see some real results.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh

        What an honor that a guy like you would even respond to this post. Yes... its amazing to me what an "out there" concept this is to some... it's just as easy to run an offline sales organization as online, and much to alot of peoples surprise it works as good or better... for those who never knew anything beyond the "online world" which I joined around 1998 or 99 its like a new idea "sounds crazy, calling people, but hey it just might work"? I have specialized primarily in these hybrid biz models because I had a background managing telemarketers when I got online... it seemed natural that they would compliment each other...

        Online sales letters work ALOT better than the newspaper (Print Media) ... but a room full of telemarketers can still out perform a sales letter in 99% of the cases Im sure.

        Thanks Andrew

        Ps its an honor honestly when ANYONE responds, not to make anyone else feel un appreciated... I just happen to be a big fan of your work!
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        • Profile picture of the author peter_act
          Yep, if Andrew endorses a method of getting offline clients, that's good enough for me!
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        • Profile picture of the author Gemini9
          Thanks for the great post, John. Interesting how with all the technological advances for online and offline business, we still find ourselves having to pick up the phone and talk to prospects.

          Reminds me of the saying: 'People buy people'.
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          • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
            Great post and reply. Loved your quote!

            Originally Posted by Gemini9 View Post

            Thanks for the great post, John. Interesting how with all the technological advances for online and offline business, we still find ourselves having to pick up the phone and talk to prospects.

            Reminds me of the saying: 'People buy people'.
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        • Profile picture of the author Caper224
          Well, take it from me as I earn a 6 figure income on my dayjob cold calling, an I've been doing it almost 6 years now. Its just not that simple.

          First problem is most people suck at it, everyone's gotten that call from a newbie telemarketing studdering and talking monotone and robotic. You can hear him painfully trying not to miss a word on the paper.

          Second, most people dont know how to build rapport, an build value over the phone so they just get hung up on.

          Third, cold callers generally convert at around 3 - 5 %. I'm a top performer so I exceed it a little but on average if I make 100 calls in a day that'll = 10 to 12 sales. And, my sales manager will doing breakdancing on my desk over that. Its tedious, SUPER REDUNDANT task, and I'm on this site to build my marketing skills because I know there is just better ways of doing this.
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            Originally Posted by Caper224 View Post

            Well, take it from me as I earn a 6 figure income on my dayjob cold calling, an I've been doing it almost 6 years now. Its just not that simple.

            First problem is most people suck at it, everyone's gotten that call from a newbie telemarketing studdering and talking monotone and robotic. You can hear him painfully trying not to miss a word on the paper.

            Second, most people dont know how to build rapport, an build value over the phone so they just get hung up on.

            Third, cold callers generally convert at around 3 - 5 %. I'm a top performer so I exceed it a little but on average if I make 100 calls in a day that'll = 10 to 12 sales. And, my sales manager will doing breakdancing on my desk over that. Its tedious, SUPER REDUNDANT task, and I'm on this site to build my marketing skills because I know there is just better ways of doing this.

            Great post and yes there are genuine skills involved in any form of marketing.

            "Cold calling" is really difficult for most people because they just don't take the time to develop those skills.

            It's no fun when you're not getting results and the feedback you're getting isn't great.

            Internet marketing can be exactly the same.

            If you want to succeed in any field it's going to take work and persistence to develop the skills you need.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
            Signature
            Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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            • Profile picture of the author WikiWarrior
              Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              @ Youniversityforlife

              The best part is this:

              "Those are just the contacts you made off the intial 100 calls... wait till you see over the next few weeks how you start getting call ins from the messages you forgot you left...!

              This is how we roll on the phone folks!
              Thanks John. Yeah, I'm hoping some of the ones I left messages with or emailed after speaking to will get in touch. It's impossible to tell when they ask you to email the details or say they will call back whether it's a gentle let-down or if they really do just want to consider the offer in their own time. Either way, I'll just keep plugging away and if they call it's a nice bonus. I'm doing a lot of followup calls too since I like to know either way and find out their reasons. The feedback should help me tweak my pitch.

              Originally Posted by dsprank View Post

              Your hourly earnings could have been even higher if you did not kill off two hours in there. Still it is not bad pay for staring at the phone!

              I hope some of the other people here that think cold calling does not work for some reason or other, see your post. Just like everything else it takes practice in order to get better at it, as you can see. keep us updated on how you progress. You are only going to make more money while those other people are sitting at the computer, waiting for the big money to fall in their lap.
              I'm aiming to double the number of people I contact next week by spending bigger blocks of time on this and cutting out some of the wastage I had this week. I'm using Zoho for CRM and invoicing plus a simple Excel spreadsheet to make notes on each call.

              I don't even have a website yet but everyone I've spoken to that was interested were happy to just talk about their businesses. I really need to get some business cards done though.

              I'll check in next Friday with a quick progress update.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        Your post may be unpopular with some people who want to avoid methods like cold calling but it does highlight a very important principle...

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        Nothing wrong with hating cold calling... I hate it too, but its effective. There have been a couple responses, where's its clear to me that some have tried telemarketing, perhaps even working in a call center and failed... and they are a bit resentful at the concept.... I have hired and fired hundreds of telemarketers literally... so I know the energy when I see it.

        Its not that its all that hard, but just like article writing it requires focus, and some disciplin.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Hi John,

          I see you are a telePRO. Do you have an information product on telemarketing? IF so, I'd be interested in it, although, I do have a pretty decent background in the industry both as a TSA and a Script Writer as well as a product developer.

          I think you should CUSTOMIZE your experience and knowledge for the Internet Marketer, and it would be a product you'd find WANTED and needed.

          IF you don't have a product, perhaps you'd want to joint develop one? Always open to new ideas and opportunities.

          Thanks for the "reminder" on tested and proven sales strategies which we sometimes forget about in the IM world.

          gjabiz gjabiz@yahoo.com
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        • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
          Cold calling totally works but it also totally sucks.

          I mean imagine 100 girls at a bar - you go up to each one of them one by one and get shot down time after time.

          How many times are you going to get slapped or told no thank you before you stop and leave.

          Most people won't make it through the first hundred.

          The biggest problem I have with cold calling is positioning.

          "Hi my name is Tim and I am really desperate for work and that is why I am calling you. Please hire me, haggle with the fee I want to charge, and treat me like a second class citizen.... hello ... .are you still there or have you hung up on me already?"

          While I use "cold calling" I do in a way where you don't have to talk with anyone and the best part is they only contact you if you're interested.

          Beats the heck out of normal cold calling.

          BUT - if you have nothing else you can do and are short on money give cold call a shot. Just don't take it personal and keep at it.

          Tim
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          • Profile picture of the author joshril
            Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

            Cold calling totally works but it also totally sucks.

            I mean imagine 100 girls at a bar - you go up to each one of them one by one and get shot down time after time.

            How many times are you going to get slapped or told no thank you before you stop and leave.

            Most people won't make it through the first hundred.

            The biggest problem I have with cold calling is positioning.

            "Hi my name is Tim and I am really desperate for work and that is why I am calling you. Please hire me, haggle with the fee I want to charge, and treat me like a second class citizen.... hello ... .are you still there or have you hung up on me already?"

            While I use "cold calling" I do in a way where you don't have to talk with anyone and the best part is they only contact you if you're interested.

            Beats the heck out of normal cold calling.

            BUT - if you have nothing else you can do and are short on money give cold call a shot. Just don't take it personal and keep at it.

            Tim
            I agree with the negative positioning of cold calling. Networking, building a referral networking, direct mail, etc. all offer much better positioning.

            But, all of the above take a lot more time or money before they bring in any sales.

            Someone could technically have a client the same day they get on the phone with cold calling. Sure... it's almost like "begging" for business, but it works and will continue to work.

            If someone is broke and needs to make money quick, there's no better way to go than cold calling in my opinion.

            If someone has a solid budget and time to build a referral network then cold calling probably is not where they should spend their time.

            The other way to deal with the negative positioning factor of cold calling is to outsource the task. If your "assistant" is making calls for you then it alleviates some of the negative positioning when you actually get a chance to sit down with a business owner.

            Outsourcing the task always resolves the problem of the people that quit before they get through the first hundred. In fact, Tim makes a really good point. A lot of people will not make it through the first 100 calls, but many won't ever start calling due to the fear of rejection.
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          • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
            Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

            ".... hello ... .are you still there? "
            lol

            While I use "cold calling" I do in a way where you don't have to talk with anyone and the best part is they only contact you if you're interested.
            Can you explain it a little further, please? They only contact you if YOU'RE interested?
            Was that a mis-wording or intentional?

            In any ways, I'd like to see the technique. :-)

            Thomas
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

              lol



              Can you explain it a little further, please? They only contact you if YOU'RE interested?
              Was that a mis-wording or intentional?

              In any ways, I'd like to see the technique. :-)

              Thomas
              Could be voice broadcasting. I have had some success with that before... it is not as good for "sales" as it is collections... what this person is referring to is "lead generation" they can canvass for you and people leave a message if they want to be called... honestly, dollar for dollar though it isnt less expensive than a telemarketer usually, and it takes a while to hash out a voicebraodcast campaign, tweaking like Adwords...

              Still It does work for some types of lead generation and even some types of sales here and there... I used it for "collections" and it brought in about 300 bucks per day back when I ran a fundraising operation....

              Of course I may be off... he may be funneling through the web or something... or even using tsrs to canvass out all the laydowns for him.
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              • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                Could be voice broadcasting. I have had some success with that before... it is not as good for "sales" as it is collections... what this person is referring to is "lead generation" they can canvass for you and people leave a message if they want to be called... honestly, dollar for dollar though it isnt less expensive than a telemarketer usually, and it takes a while to hash out a voicebraodcast campaign, tweaking like Adwords...

                Still It does work for some types of lead generation and even some types of sales here and there... I used it for "collections" and it brought in about 300 bucks per day back when I ran a fundraising operation....

                Of course I may be off... he may be funneling through the web or something... or even using tsrs to canvass out all the laydowns for him.
                Nope, not voice broadcast. This still involves you picking up the phone and calling people but you only talk to interested parties.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

                  Nope, not voice broadcast. This still involves you picking up the phone and calling people but you only talk to interested parties.
                  Genrate leads from the internet... and call them back? That works too Ive got vast experience with it... this thread is for the guy who hasnt been able to succeed at that so far.

                  Tim I read in your sig that you have made 50k offline marketing to date... Good going.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

            Cold calling totally works but it also totally sucks.

            I mean imagine 100 girls at a bar - you go up to each one of them one by one and get shot down time after time.

            How many times are you going to get slapped or told no thank you before you stop and leave.

            Most people won't make it through the first hundred.

            The biggest problem I have with cold calling is positioning.

            "Hi my name is Tim and I am really desperate for work and that is why I am calling you. Please hire me, haggle with the fee I want to charge, and treat me like a second class citizen.... hello ... .are you still there or have you hung up on me already?"

            While I use "cold calling" I do in a way where you don't have to talk with anyone and the best part is they only contact you if you're interested.

            Beats the heck out of normal cold calling.

            BUT - if you have nothing else you can do and are short on money give cold call a shot. Just don't take it personal and keep at it.

            Tim


            Fact: Most people wont succeed period no matter WHAT tools you give them. There are easier ways to do it than telemarketing, but there are alot more volume of successful telemarketers than IM er's because ANY skill requires dedication and most people dont have it.

            The truth is if you took two ignorant people and tried to teach one IM and the other TM... the TM guy would have a better chance of succeeding faster.

            Good points though.

            The truth shows up on all paths, not just one, you are right.
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            • Profile picture of the author LasseKohau
              Great thread about cold calling and telemarketing.

              Here are som consulting-advices for bypassing female gatekeepers.

              In 90 procent of the occasions, it would be a secretary or a female assistant/PA, who answers the phone.


              Here are some bypassing-lines to break the ice and get to number one...

              Generally, small talk/charm - your way in. ( its an art ).


              1) Im really appreciating, someone answering the phone. It is not custom everyday routine, that I experience, bla bla bla... !!!


              2) You have a really good telephonevoice, where did you train it or where have you learned to handle your voice in such a prossel. way ?

              3) You must be really good, since you are working here as a gatekeeper. What should I do, to get pass you ?

              4) What is the most interesting part of being a gatekeeper, .............. so what is the most lame excuse, that you have turned down.........


              BR LASSE
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      • Profile picture of the author guillopuyol
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        Your post may be unpopular with some people who want to avoid methods like cold calling but it does highlight a very important principle...

        The fastest way to get businesses as paying clients is to contact them directly.

        You can do that on the telephone, in person, by mail, by email...etc etc.

        The closer you get to you being face to face with a business owner the higher your chances of getting hired.

        All these methods take some skill, most take some motivation.

        Over the last few years I've observed that the people who finally just start getting in regular contact with business owners are the ones who start making money the fastest.

        If you're still trying to get local businesses as paying clients and not having much luck then it's probably long overdue that you just pick up the phone or go see some in person, go to the next business networking meeting etc etc and keep doing that consistently until you see some real results.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh

        The FIRST DAY I did this I generated a client that has paid me $6750 so far in a just little over a year.

        Picking up the phone works... Postcards, flyers, SEO, PPC, Media Buys etc... work too, but if you can get a business owner on the phone and you manage to get them interested enough in whatever it is you have to offer, then making sales will be a lot easier.

        In my opinion, the reason why people dread picking up the phone and making a cold call is no only fear of rejection, but more importantly, they don't really feel like they are HELPING their clients.

        If I asked you to cald call 100 houses or businesses and offer them $1000 cash if they need it... I can imagine you wouldn't really be nervous, but maybe excited to see the reactions of people when you tell them this. I would almost be willing to bet that even if you called around offering cash you would get some level of rejection.

        Now, translate that into your business and your prospects... Are you calling to TAKE their money? Or are you calling to GIVE them business and profits? A shift in your mindset will help you get over the fear of rejection.

        Just my $0.02

        -G
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        • Profile picture of the author dsprank
          Originally Posted by guillopuyol View Post

          In my opinion, the reason why people dread picking up the phone and making a cold call is no only fear of rejection, but more importantly, they don't really feel like they are HELPING their clients.

          If I asked you to cald call 100 houses or businesses and offer them $1000 cash if they need it... I can imagine you wouldn't really be nervous, but maybe excited to see the reactions of people when you tell them this. I would almost be willing to bet that even if you called around offering cash you would get some level of rejection.
          Good point! You are doing the business a disservice by not contacting them.
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          • Profile picture of the author guillopuyol
            Originally Posted by dsprank View Post

            Good point! You are doing the business a disservice by not contacting them.

            Exactly! And this mindset will not only help you when you make the phone calls, but it will also help you close sales. Business owners smell desperation miles away. If you are desperate to sell them, they will see right through you, whereas if you are presenting what you have to offer them, build up the value and just educate them enough about what it is you do, then it is up to them to make an educated decision of whether or not they want your HELP...

            Yes, you want to HELP them... but if they don't want your help then you just move on to someone else that does. No pressure. No hard selling. Just intelligent business owners accepting help when they need it.

            Works like a charm! And business owners LOVE you for it.
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      • Profile picture of the author soccermegan77
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        Your post may be unpopular with some people who want to avoid methods like cold calling but it does highlight a very important principle...

        The fastest way to get businesses as paying clients is to contact them directly.

        You can do that on the telephone, in person, by mail, by email...etc etc.

        The closer you get to you being face to face with a business owner the higher your chances of getting hired.

        All these methods take some skill, most take some motivation.

        Over the last few years I've observed that the people who finally just start getting in regular contact with business owners are the ones who start making money the fastest.

        If you're still trying to get local businesses as paying clients and not having much luck then it's probably long overdue that you just pick up the phone or go see some in person, go to the next business networking meeting etc etc and keep doing that consistently until you see some real results.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh


        This is genius!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jenna Paulson
    I wont be cold calling, as its not a strength of mine.

    Has anyone had any success with outsourcing this function on freelancer.com or odesk?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Understnadable Jenn... cold calling isnt for everyone, and by all means your business should serve you in ways that make it pleasant for you to do business... outsourcing is a good way to do that...

      Some claim to be able to find good telemarketers for like 2 bucks per hour in the philippines... I dont know, but I do know that if a person is willing to pay a telemarketer what they are truly worth, then they will be worth 100 times more to the person who hired them. If you pay someone crappy... "usually" you're gonna get a crappy telemarketer...

      I am confident in my ability as are alot of people with my background... I can get results... but Im not gonna even LOOK at a phone for less than 50-100 bucks per hour.

      Still there are others willing to do it for 7 or 8 bucks... you may find them... You can google it and there are a ton of call centers out there offering services. If you get sales thats all that matters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I have to disagree with you a little bit about Telemarketing for the Offline SEO Niche.

    I have been a brick and mortar business owner for a long time and I received no less then 5-8 calls per day promising page 1 Google BULLCRAP!

    Its beat to death already and its annoying as HELL!

    If you want to stand out from your comp.

    Go out and talk to them face to face.

    Don't make outlandish claims, and educate your prospect.

    Its FAR BETTER learning how to be a One Call Closer then dialing a frigg'n phone all day long playing a numbers game.

    Seriously your multiply your income 4-5 times the moment you learn to close face to face and not over the phone.

    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    If you ask anyone what the hardest part of sales is they will tell you "Cold Calling". Being even a less than average salesman, if you can get cold calling right, you can earn a good living.

    Generally when someone is consistently failing, they are not consistently prospecting. Why?
    Because, again, prospecting is the hardest part of sales. People who don't do the hard stuff, cant be in the top percentile.

    Does it have to be hard... no.

    Our internet marketing pioneers have taught us funneling systems... 'systems" that were more effective years ago than today, though the "principles" taught still thrive.

    We constantly have to come up with more complex ways to make them continue to work...
    You see systems, and techniques change, only "principles" endure.

    In every conception there is a metaphorical egg and a fertilizer or catalyst... So, what spawned all these systems, and knowledge of these principles of online prospecting?

    Desire. Desire to never have to cold call anyone again. Desire to advertise in ways that make customers come to you... Generating customers "passively".

    Still, in some markets like "web design" for instance the online competition is soo steep that for most offline marketers , they will never be able to funnel any significant amount of customers from the search engines... the most brilliant seo people and marketing minds in the world are competing for those spots, even in small towns.

    Not impossible... but not easy in a lot of cases, furthermore in some small localized areas the online market simply isn't big enough to bring significant business even if you have the top spot...

    So how do you compete?

    Many go back to the principle that endures... "prospecting aggressively instead of passively", taking the bull by the horns and controlling your numbers through telemarketing.

    Telemarketing ALWAYS works. It NEVER fails... and it NEVER gets more complicated than:
    1: A person
    2: A list
    3: A script
    4: A phone.
    5: A willingness to make 100 phone calls, and expect a 3-5% conversion rate (2 in the bag and 3 in the pipeline).

    Go where the competition is not.

    Here's how telemarketing works:

    1: Make 100 calls
    2: Schedule two appointments
    3: Two more appointments will come over the next two weeks from that initial 100 calls.
    4: Prospect every day, and keep the pipeline stuffed.

    This system is worth 2-3 clients per week on the front end... and eventually 2 or 3 per DAY if you keep cold calling daily and stuffing the pipeline.

    It ALWAYS works.

    Do you have to do it yourself? No.

    If you are marketing to offline businesses do you HAVE to do it. No.
    Will it guarantee your results?

    YES! YES! YES!

    It never fails...

    Try it and see.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I have to disagree with you a little bit about Telemarketing for the Offline SEO Niche.

      I have been a brick and mortar business owner for a long time and I received no less then 5-8 calls per day promising page 1 Google BULLCRAP!

      Its beat to death already and its annoying as HELL!

      If you want to stand out from your comp.

      Go out and talk to them face to face.

      Don't make outlandish claims, and educate your prospect.

      Its FAR BETTER learning how to be a One Call Closer then dialing a friggin phone all day long playing a numbers game.

      Seriously your multiply your income 4-5 times the moment you learn to close face to face and not over the phone.

      Someone gave me GOLDEN advice on telemarketing once. He said "just because you wouldnt do something, doesnt mean everyone else feels the same way"

      When I was in a booth in a call center.... there were a hundred people a day (calling residential) who say "I cant believe anyone would buy anything from a telemarketer... Im so sick of these calls" but still day after day... hundreds of days in a row... while 100 people would say that, I still got 20 sales a day...

      So just because 60% wouldnt do it? Big deal!

      Im not looking for them, Im looking for the 40% who dont feel that way and actually who would be relieved to recieve a call in the right moment from someone who could solve their problem!

      Alot of people wouldnt buy online either but that doesnt stop Allen from making his sales quota's/goals.

      Yes face to face is good too... but, with a call list you can target your prospects in very detailed ways that you cant knocking doors.

      With a good list generating program... I could look up your business before hand, and tell you 10 different things about your income, number of employees, type of corp...

      You can really create a "perfect prospect profiule" and target it with a call list.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        John,

        While I agree that you can get a huge amount of intel by getting the right list for telemarketing.

        I have done both, and I had always been the TOP performer in any telemarketing situation I was in when I was doing that.

        But....

        I still made more "money" in face to face sales with less work.

        Telemarketing is used as a time saver and a numbers game.

        Is it effective? Of course it is!

        And any one who does not accept that fact is an idiot.

        I am not knocking telemarketing, i just feel from my experience as the person receiving the phone calls that its really beat to death in the IM/SEO services niche to business owners.





        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Someone gave me GOLDEN advice on telemarketing once. He said "just because you wouldnt do something, doesnt mean everyone else feels the same way"

        When I was in a booth in a call center.... there were a hundred people a dasy (calling residential) who say "I cant believe anyone would buy anything from a telemarketer... Im so sick of these calls" but still day after day... hundreds of days in a row... while 100 people would say that, I still got 20 sales a day...

        So just because 60% wouldnt do it? Big deal!

        Im not looking for them, Im looking for the 40% who dont feel that way and actually who would be relieved to recieve a call in the right moment from someone who could solve their problem!

        Alot of people wouldnt buy online either but that doesnt stop Allen from making his sales quota's/goals.

        Yes face to face is good too... but, with a call list you can target your prospects in very detailed ways that you cant knocking doors.

        With a good list generating program... I could look up your business before hand, and tell you 10 different things about your income, number of employees, type of corp...

        You can really create a "perfect prospect profiule" and target it with a call list.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          John,

          While I agree that you can get a huge amount of intel by getting the right list for telemarketing.

          I have done both, and I had always been the TOP performer in any telemarketing situation I was in when I was doing that.

          But....

          I still made more "money" in face to face sales with less work.

          Telemarketing is used as a time saver and a numbers game.

          Is it effective? Of course it is!

          And any one who does not accept that fact is an idiot.

          I am not knocking telemarketing, i just feel from my experience as the person receiving the phone calls that its really beat to death in the IM/SEO services niche to business owners.
          I see your point and Namaste to you (the telemarketer in me honors the telemarketer in you ) honestly the best way is for a hot telemarketer to set appointmewnts for a hot face to face salesman... get your foot in the door. Most telemarketers arent gonna close a million dollar deal over the phone... but they can sure casnvass the numbers.. and open million dollar doors for you and set up meetings for you...

          Thanks for the input.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jimian
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I have to disagree with you a little bit about Telemarketing for the Offline SEO Niche.

      I have been a brick and mortar business owner for a long time and I received no less then 5-8 calls per day promising page 1 Google BULLCRAP!

      Its beat to death already and its annoying as HELL!

      If you want to stand out from your comp.

      Go out and talk to them face to face.

      Don't make outlandish claims, and educate your prospect.

      Its FAR BETTER learning how to be a One Call Closer then dialing a frigg'n phone all day long playing a numbers game.

      Seriously your multiply your income 4-5 times the moment you learn to close face to face and not over the phone.
      True... I stay away from that "1st Page Google phrase" if i can... I say "I do online lead generation for brick & mortar biz using a variety of online tools... pause a bit... it's much more than just having a website or being on the 1st page of google'...

      and continue on..
      email capture
      google places
      press releases
      etc.
      Signature

      OFFLINE Marketing Strategies For The OFFLINE Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    There is NOTHING like walking into a small business owners establishment and closing the deal face to face on the first call, and walking out with a fat deposit check.

    It is totally possible, totally doable, and 100% teachable.

    As a matter of fact I am SO sure about it that I am will to take any one willing to beat the street and teach them how to be a one call closer.

    Then watch them change their life financially in less then 30 days.

    And I mean a big financial change.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      There is NOTHING like walking into a small business owners establishment and closing the deal face to face on the first call, and walking out with a fat deposit check.

      It is totally possible, totally doable, and 100% teachable.

      As a matter of fact I am SO sure about it that I am will to take any one willing to beat the street and teach them how to be a one call closer.

      Then watch them change their life financially in less then 30 days.

      And I mean a big financial change.
      Nice. Boy have I been there... last year I made that comment on the warrior forum and 200 people asked me for free training...

      Bkay warned me to charge but I didnt. I was too busy trying to be an ANTI GURU and prove that Good will would pay... it does... but dont take it to the extreme because people will walk on you. I hate it but its a fact, the vets who warned me were right.

      Be sure to add a charge for your valuable training.

      If it seems like Im a know it all with an answer for everything its because in my lifetime I have had well over 1,000 telemarketers work for me... there really isnt any "telemarketing failure" objection that I havent heard... Still determined people succeed no matter what.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Cold calling?

    Wow.

    Okay, I am currently working on a $100,000 marketing consulting contract with a $3 million/year technology integrator. I signed the contract 6 weeks ago and will be done in about 3 weeks.

    My client has been spending $6000 a pop with a telemarketing group to cold call clients.

    $50 an hour for 120 hours to fill the seats in a live breakfast briefing seminar. It's an extremely targeted list, but there's no relationship.

    They burned through $8000 for their last event to get 55 leads and 26 event registrations.

    They closed one deal for $75,000 at a margin of 14%. After paying for the marketing, the event, the commissions and the payroll taxes on the deal, they barely broke even.

    This is a localized business mind you that services two major metro markets in Ohio.

    They have steadily been losing registration rates, and this reflects the same sentiments of a very large number of sales teams that I have talked to. Over the past several years, the effectiveness rating of cold calling has plummeted.

    We put the telemarketing group on calling the warm list and the response rate went through the roof. Right now they're at 250 registrations out of a 2000 approx. list.

    The point is that the list was warm, and it made far more sense to spend the expensive direct selling effort on a more targeted list.

    When you're cold calling someone, you're spending time and money gambling that you're going to call someone up when they're already in the buying process. You're trying to find the needle in the haystack, and a start-up company simply doesn't have the money and resources to cold call a bunch of random contacts.

    Warm contacts, qualified leads, yeah. Cold calling - no. There are far more effective, and cheaper means of customer acquisition.

    If you think that this doesn't apply because you're a small company or startup, guess again. It's even MORE of a reason that you can't afford to gamble with expensive, and low return lead generation like cold calling.

    I don't care how good of a talker or how structured your logical branching script is.

    A far more effective use of time and resources for a start-up is a structured PR and expert writing campaign combined with personal networking and event presentations.

    BTW I spend about $20K a year on marketing studies and surveys from companies like Forrester and SAMI Burke. Telemarketing is dying across the board in the B2B space.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Michael,

      Did you close that deal over the phone? = )


      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Cold calling?

      Wow.

      Okay, I am currently working on a $100,000 marketing consulting contract with a $3 million/year technology integrator. I signed the contract 6 weeks ago and will be done in about 3 weeks.

      My client has been spending $6000 a pop with a telemarketing group to cold call clients.

      $50 an hour for 120 hours to fill the seats in a live breakfast briefing seminar. It's an extremely targeted list, but there's no relationship.

      They burned through $8000 for their last event to get 55 leads and 26 event registrations.

      They closed one deal for $75,000 at a margin of 14%. After paying for the marketing, the event, the commissions and the payroll taxes on the deal, they barely broke even.

      This is a localized business mind you that services two major metro markets in Ohio.

      They have steadily been losing registration rates, and this reflects the same sentiments of a very large number of sales teams that I have talked to. Over the past several years, the effectiveness rating of cold calling has plummeted.

      We put the telemarketing group on calling the warm list and the response rate went through the roof. Right now they're at 250 registrations out of a 2000 approx. list.

      The point is that the list was warm, and it made far more sense to spend the expensive direct selling effort on a more targeted list.

      When you're cold calling someone, you're spending time and money gambling that you're going to call someone up when they're already in the buying process. You're trying to find the needle in the haystack, and a start-up company simply doesn't have the money and resources to cold call a bunch of random contacts.

      Warm contacts, qualified leads, yeah. Cold calling - no. There are far more effective, and cheaper means of customer acquisition.

      If you think that this doesn't apply because you're a small company or startup, guess again. It's even MORE of a reason that you can't afford to gamble with expensive, and low return lead generation like cold calling.

      I don't care how good of a talker or how structured your logical branching script is.

      A far more effective use of time and resources for a start-up is a structured PR and expert writing campaign combined with personal networking and event presentations.

      BTW I spend about $20K a year on marketing studies and surveys from companies like Forrester and SAMI Burke. Telemarketing is dying across the board in the B2B space.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Michael,

        Did you close that deal over the phone? = )
        No, I closed it over lunch with the VP of Marketing and the President of the firm at a Panera Bread Company with a pencil and a scratch piece of paper.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Michael,

        Did you close that deal over the phone? = )
        Cute.

        Closing a small biz face to face couldnt possibly feel better than closing a 50k sale via "email" without ever picking up a phone and having the full 50k wired within 24 hours to your bank account!

        I've done that multiple times brokering wholesale deals overseas... nother story...

        But yeah some things feel better than making a face to face sale... at least I think its pretty cool.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      They have steadily been losing registration rates, and this reflects the same sentiments of a very large number of sales teams that I have talked to. Over the past several years, the effectiveness rating of cold calling has plummeted.
      Exactly!
      Cold calling is dying really fast. It is almost dead already.
      That was one of the reasons why I said that promoting cold calling as a "never fail" method is so wrong.
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      • Profile picture of the author joshril
        Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

        Exactly!
        Cold calling is dying really fast. It is almost dead already.
        That was one of the reasons why I said that promoting cold calling as a "never fail" method is so wrong.
        I'll respectfully disagree with this. There are too many variables to authoritatively state that cold calling is dead.

        Variables such as:

        -What the offer is
        -Trying to sell on the call or schedule an appointment/lead for follow-up
        -How many calls are being made
        -Experience of the caller
        -Quality of the list
        -Whether the list is targeted
        -Whether aids such as predictive dialers are being used
        -Etc.

        As mentioned by a poster above, what works for some, may not work for others. Since 2002, I've experienced a positive ROI (return on investment) with cold calls (even factoring for a monetary value of time) in multiple businesses.

        Are there better ways to get clients? Yes, I will say that there are, but many of those methods take far more capital, time, and effort in other ways.

        Is cold calling for everyone... Of course not. As someone mentioned above, your mileage WILL vary, so testing is the key.
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        • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
          Cold calling isn't dead. It's just losing effectiveness - especially telemarketing web services to small proprietor business owners who consistently get 10 calls a week or more for the same things.

          Proprietor business is the lowest hanging fruit in the B2B arena, because it's also the least sophisticated. It's also the most competitive.

          There are a lot of variables (specifically the desired outcome of the cold call), and there are ways of increasing effectiveness.

          But when we're talking about "cold calling" at this level, we're talking about LEAD GENERATION. Not sales. This isn't "Boiler Room" and we're not telling high net worth execs to "reach down between your legs and tell me what you grab" in an effort to get them to buy some sham stock issue.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

            Cold calling isn't dead. It's just losing effectiveness - ....But when we're talking about "cold calling" at this level, we're talking about LEAD GENERATION. Not sales. .
            With all due respect Micheal (and I mean it sincerely):

            Perhaps you should be consutlting all the guys at ATT, The major Cable Companies... because cold calling is an integral part of their marketing models.

            OMG they even have the audacity to believe they are on the cutting edge of Marketing????

            As far as losing its effectiveness, I strongly disagree. I personally have closed a 50k deal via email and more than a few 20k ones...without ever picking up a phone on Alibaba.com, so I know there are other ways to skin a cat, many other ways, this is just one. Its my contribution, its what I bring to the table, just as what you bring is equally amazing.

            As for it being best suited for lead generation: I think if you look back through this thread that is what I have suggested all along.
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            • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
              Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              With all due respect Micheal (and I mean it sincerely):

              Perhaps you should be consutlting all the guys at ATT, The major Cable Companies... because cold calling is an integral part of their marketing models.

              OMG they even have the audacity to believe they are on the cutting edge of Marketing????

              As far as losing its effectiveness, I strongly disagree. I personally have closed a 50k deal via email and more than a few 20k ones...without ever picking up a phone on Alibaba.com, so I know there are other ways to skin a cat, many other ways, this is just one. Its my contribution, its what I bring to the table, just as what you bring is equally amazing.

              As for it being best suited for lead generation: I think if you look back through this thread that is what I have suggested all along.
              I more than realize that cold calling is integral to a lot of major corporate marketing strategies. I also realize that a lot of companies are very slow to react to changes in the market, and that all the move to things like social media for B2B lead gen and B2B lead nurturing. Those large corporations are not who and what you're addressing in this topic. You're talking to micro-enterprise level entrepreneur startups and advising them to cold call mom & pop shop proprietorships $1 million/year in sales or less.

              That's why I made the statement in blue that you excerpted in your quote and response...

              Cold calling isn't dead. It's just losing effectiveness - especially telemarketing web services to small proprietor business owners who consistently get 10 calls a week or more for the same things.
              That is essential to the specific context of my discussion.

              I've already stated that extremely large corporations with large budgets can implement a massive telemarketing campaign and show a fairly decent ROI. That's very different than the upstart entrepreneur sitting around trying to overcome the irony of figuring out how to market their marketing services before they starve to death.

              But make no mistake the tide is shifting all the way around. I've already cited one major market analysis survey done by a multi-million dollar research entity. I have more, and I can certainly dig them out if you'd like. I also have my own anecdotal evidence with my own client base.

              Incidently, I've been having this very dicussion with a guy named Neil Warren, the editor-in-chief of Modern Selling Magazine... a pretty large European trade pub for the sales profession at the top of the industry in Western Europe. Neil's observations reflect the same as mine. We've been debating the issue with the owner of a small sales training company with a pretty large client, the duPont Registry. He teaches telemarketing techniques to their sales staff. He's also a fire and brimstone, boiler room veteran hot shot who believes that the sun rises and sets on telemarketing. I admire his zeal as well as yours. He's trying to keep his clients from testing social media as a lead generation strategy by spreading this fear doctrine that your sales staff will screw around and never sell anything.

              But I haven't built my career and business around a single lead generation technique. I'm constantly looking for the very best tool for the particular job in context.

              I'm not taking the position because I arbitrarily feel like it or for some reason don't like cold calling. I've certainly done my share in my time, and it's no big deal for me to pick up the phone and slam down a list. For me, it's all about the most effective use of resources as a businessperson at the stage and within the context that a particular business is at.

              It's also not a personal indictment of anyone who does cold call.

              What's the best tool for the job in context?

              And to answer that, I also agree with T.D. test test test test test.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

        Exactly!
        Cold calling is dying really fast. It is almost dead already.
        That was one of the reasons why I said that promoting cold calling as a "never fail" method is so wrong.
        They were saying this just as passionately 20 years ago, it seems like telemarketing is even bigger today actually, and definately more "sophisticated".

        Darn. I just now remembered how to use the multiquote function... a little late in this thread Im afraid.

        With that being said, : this guy needs to be quoted again! (below).

        Originally Posted by TJ Kazunga View Post

        Really interesting posts from everyone.

        My take is that there's no point just doing what people on a thread suggest, test it yourself.

        I hired a telemarketer to call my CoC membership list to set up appointments. Not exactly a warm list as they hadn't heard of me but at least he could say "calling on behalf of a fellow CoC member...".

        He called 80 or so companies, spoke to 50 or so decision makers, made 6 appointments and I closed 2 of those appointments. Lifetime value of those clients to me - approximately $2,500 each (converting from GB pounds).

        Total cost to me - under $500. An ROI of over 10:1. Yup, I'll take that. So long as I get those results I'll pay - when it stops making financial sense I'll stop - I don't care what Forrester or anyone else says, if it works for me I'll do it - and that's what everyone should do. TEST IT FOR YOURSELF.


        Good thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks... there are millions of of wanna be ball players, and there are millions of wanna be business people. The ones who are willing understanding the concept of "failing to succeed" WILL!

    The better you get at it, the more the numbers start bending to your will... but even just playin the numbers and performing average puts you in the game... so if you need 1-2k per week in business. You can always count on picking up a phone. make a hundred calls in 2 hours asking a simple question... and develop 2 or 3 new $500-$1000. clients.

    @ Hiles

    Yer awesome man.

    I can only speak from my personal experience in the industry.

    Cold calling can be way more advanced than the average phone book... I can laser target 60 year old ladies who live on walnut street and own pomeraniens...

    Thats almost as good as a warm lead.

    It costs nothing to pick up a phone and do it yourself. Thats what Im trying to encourage for those who arent on the 100 million dollar contract level... or even the $5,000 contract level. They just need some income.

    PS. Folks... no wso in mind... just putting this stuff out there to try and form ideas for one maybe. I've never tried it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Thanks... there are millions of of wanna be ball players, and there are millions of wanna be business people. The ones who are willing understanding the concept of "failing to succeed" WILL!

      The better you get at it, the more the numbers start bending to your will... but even just playin the numbers and performing average puts you in the game... so if you need 1-2k per week in business. You can always count on picking up a phone. make a hundred calls in 2 hours asking a simple question... and develop 2 or 3 new $500-$1000. clients.

      @ Hiles

      Yer awesome man.

      I can only speak from my personal experience in the industry.

      Cold calling can be way more advanced than the average phone book... I can laser target 60 yuear old ladies who live on walnut street and own pomeraniens...

      Thats almost as good as a warm lead.

      It costs nothing to pick up a phone and do it yourself. Thats what Im trying to encourage for those who arent on the 100 million dollar contract level... or even the $5,000 contract level. They just need some income.

      Laser targeting is irrelevant.

      The overall tolerance for all interruption marketing is dropping across the board in the B2B arena.

      Marketing Sherpa put out a recent study, their Business Technology Buyer’s Survey, and it found that word of mouth is by far the most common factor influencing purchasing decisions. 48.3% of those surveyed said they were impacted by the tactic - as opposed to webinars which came in at 18.4% and cold calls which came in at 2.8%.

      It absolutely costs something. Time. And time is money. The most expensive time in any business is the time of the entrepreneur and founder. Thousands of dollars per hour. Future net opportunity lost because of ineffective use of time.

      Yes, I agree that for someone that's absolutely desperate beyond measure for income, to be bold and start asking anyone and everyone for business. But outright cold calling for lead generation to try and engage an unaware and uninterested prospect in a conversation is an extremely ineffective means of persuasion.

      But in reality, if you're that desperate, in all likelihood, you need a job, not a consulting contract. If you're trying to sell marketing services to people and you're not even able to effectively market yourself any better than randomly dialing people, then one has to question your overall understanding of marketing and sales in the context of the present business environment and the effectiveness of the services that you're offering.

      The numbers game works for large companies with lots of resources. They can afford it. The numbers game works for Mother Nature, who has unlimited time and resources. She can come up with several billion salmon eggs to produce a couple million fish.

      But small companies and startups have neither unlimited time, nor do they have unlimited resources - and using the most effective methods of generating leads would be the very start of the business process.
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    • Profile picture of the author joshril
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @ Hiles

      Yer awesome man.

      I can only speak from my personal experience in the industry.

      Cold calling can be way more advanced than the average phone book... I can laser target 60 year old ladies who live on walnut street and own pomeraniens...

      Thats almost as good as a warm lead.

      It costs nothing to pick up a phone and do it yourself. Thats what Im trying to encourage for those who arent on the 100 million dollar contract level... or even the $5,000 contract level. They just need some income.
      This is right on the money. Having a targeted list is almost as good as a "warm call". Blindly calling out of the phone book is obviously going to be far less effective than calling a targeted list.

      Let's face it...

      If someone has thousands to invest in marketing or several months to ramp of their business, there may be other avenues of prospecting that make more sense.

      For those with a limited marketing budget that need to get in front of potential prospects right away, cold calling is the best way to do it. You can't beat the number of contacts you can make in a relatively short amount of time for FREE/cheap.

      Cold calling can even be a viable marketing tactic for companies that have the money to invest... I have a guy that works with me on a daily basis that used to sell six-figure enterprise software via cold calling... Did he have a targeted list? Yes. Were they warm leads? No... completely cold.
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    • Profile picture of the author TJ Kazunga
      Really interesting posts from everyone.

      My take is that there's no point just doing what people on a thread suggest, test it yourself.

      I hired a telemarketer to call my CoC membership list to set up appointments. Not exactly a warm list as they hadn't heard of me but at least he could say "calling on behalf of a fellow CoC member...".

      He called 80 or so companies, spoke to 50 or so decision makers, made 6 appointments and I closed 2 of those appointments. Lifetime value of those clients to me - approximately $2,500 each (converting from GB pounds).

      Total cost to me - under $500. An ROI of over 10:1. Yup, I'll take that. So long as I get those results I'll pay - when it stops making financial sense I'll stop - I don't care what Forrester or anyone else says, if it works for me I'll do it - and that's what everyone should do. TEST IT FOR YOURSELF.


      Good thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Recent article from Modern Selling... remember, this is Europe, who has instituted a commercial DNC list (coming soon to the US).

    It's subscription and requires a login, so I copied it here for you.

    ARE SOCIAL NETWORKS THE LAST NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR COLD CALLING?

    Cold calling has been served notice, a new era beckons and with it an altogether different way of working. Social networking has arrived and will soon replace cold calling as the predominant method of prospecting in business, argues Matthew Brazil.

    I have profoundly changed the way I do business and have firmly embraced social media and the networking possibilities it has created. To that end I have reduced to a very small percentage the amount of time I spend cold calling.

    As someone who has been in sales all of my working life, has been a sales director and managed large teams of sales people, I know many people will think that there is no replacement for activity, specifically picking up the phone. Yet, no matter how intelligent you are about cold calling, it is what it is – speculative, scatter gun selling, not to mention costly and increasingly ineffective.

    Bad image
    Cold calling has a bad image, forever associated with double glazing, and I believe the whole process has run its course. Over the years the return on investment from a team of cold callers has gradually diminished; much like the internet killed press advertising revenues so will social networking see the demise of large sales floors with people standing on desks, ringing bells or plucking £10 notes from washing lines (just some of the things I have seen in many years involved in telesales).

    No names policy
    The corporate climate is changing, businesses are signing up to CTPS, making a clear statement: ‘Do not contact me’. The instances of ‘no names policy’ have increased so, for every 100 calls made, the percentage of pitches are falling. Until recently, companies have tried every strategy possible; re-trained staff in different techniques such as buying-facilitation, fact-finding or SPIN Selling yet the percentages keep falling and cold calling is getting harder and harder to see good results from.

    So, cold calling is in its last throes. For some I am sure this will be a welcome relief : I for one get infuriated with the daily stream of people trying to sell me anything from cleaning services to water! I am now better informed as a customer than at any other time in history: I, the client, consumer or customer, control the sales process. I engage with others that have purchased a product to understand why, their selection process and what the experience has been like.

    Likewise I comment on Facebook, my blog or other social media platforms about things I have purchased. I champion good service and smash the bad. I can be a brand champion one minute and brand slayer the next. There is a deafening amount of chatter online via social media platforms. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that all of that information is a hotbed of potential opportunities!

    Comparison
    What helped me conclude that cold calling does not work anymore and that I should serve notice of its termination were the results of a test I decided to run – the results are below.

    As it so happened I had a new product to sell. In the test I spent an equal amount of time cold calling and using social media, 9-5.30pm Monday to Friday. I started with cold calling

    Cold Calling Results
    Outbound calls made 325
    Meaningful conversations (pitches) and brand touches 80
    Meetings made 4
    Sales made (as a direct result of cold calling) 0

    From a cold calling perspective I was not surprised with the figures; from experience these are the average conversion ratios. The data cost me 25p per name, phone charges were roughly £100, so all up £180 not including my time. If we took an industry standard salary for telesales of £20K plus, general overhead of office, rates, light, heat, computer etc you will have spent about £1,000 to make four meetings.

    Social media
    Inbound calls generated 8
    Meetings as result of inbound calls 3
    Sales as a result of inbound calls 2
    Brand touches (from site statistics unique views of content) 422 visitors to my blog alone
    Subscribers (RSS) to my content 27 stats from Feedburner)
    People following me (Twitter) 12
    New contacts 71 (on LinkedIn, Facebook, WeCanDo.BIZ, etc)
    Listeners to my Podcast 83
    Opportunities to sell found 21
    Online conversations had 39
    Warm call list (names generated expecting a call) 11

    The cost of my social networking blitz to find new business opportunities, other than my time and internet connection are small, if anything at all. Most importantly I made two sales, covering any cost associated with the activity and generating a very healthy return. (I guess it would only be fair to include the cost of your time in this exercise as well – Ed.)

    New platform
    I used a number of platforms for the social media test, such is the diversity of choice and it is here that companies need to get it right. A great new platform is WeCanDo.BIZ, which takes the micro-blogging idea to new levels and allows companies to register a profile and state what their business need is for all to see. During my test, the site generated inbound calls, traffic to my blog and online conversations. It should be said that WeCanDo.BIZ was the most successful platform I used during the week.

    The sites founder, Ian Hendry explains: ‘Where I think WeCanDoBIZ may change the rules is in getting the needs shared up front, so that you can determine much quicker whether a sale is likely. This means you can focus where the money is, rather than waste time with a lengthy qualification period.’

    New philosophy
    You can’t simply start using social media tools and expect your sales to increase. You have to change your sales and marketing philosophy for your business to get better. Your perception of outbound push selling needs to change. This is the lesson I want to get out to everyone. Social media tools simply enable businesses.

    Skills
    The central question, however, is do modern-day sales people have the level of skill required to conduct a social media campaign individually? The simple answer is no. Not all salespeople will have the necessary skills, but having a skills gap is nothing new on the sales floor otherwise we wouldn’t have the multi-million pound training industry!

    Can the skills be taught quickly and cost effectively? Yes. I have always taught people that sales is a process: follow steps one through five to achieve your aims. Social media networking can be processed as well, giving salespeople clear guidelines on the ‘how to’ and ‘how not to’. We spend millions every year teaching salespeople to cold call better, use the latest CRM (customer relationship management) system, be better team players and so on; and so it must come to pass that companies will need to train all staff to be ‘social media savvy’ as it extends far beyond just sales – marketing and service need to be in on the picture as well.

    Resistance
    There was a time not too long ago when the need for social media in business was not understood and faced resistance. Much like when everyone started creating websites, people asked ‘why?’, ‘what for?’ and pondered how the web could help their business. People thought it would be a fad.

    The same discussion is happening now about social media. Businesses look at social media and think of it as Facebook or MySpace; a universally time-wasting activity that employees should not engage in on the business clock. Indeed, some businesses have banned access to social networking sites altogether.

    The future
    I have to say that such businesses have got it wrong; rather than it being something employees waste time on, it is the future; it is here to stay and within it lies the evolution of sales and marketing.

    Agreed, updating your Facebook or MySpace page with pictures of the weekend, playing silly games, nudging or poking other people is not the best use of your company’s time. But creating engaging, thought-provoking, discussion-opening content, centred around your products or services is.

    Social media networking will reduce dependence on cold calling. I am not saying it will eradicate the need for the telephone – that perhaps is to bold an idea. But I am certain it will become the first step in prospecting for new business. Companies around the world need to wake up to that fact and act now or get left behind.
    6Consulting are specialists in social media providing social media expertise for marketing, sales and service departments. For further information please contact 6Consulting by email at sales@6consulting.co.uk or call on +44 (0) 1223 911365.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      I certainly wouldnt want to sidetrack anyone from from testing social media as a lead generation strategy... just, while they are trying to achieve a more passive position in running their business... a few cold calls here and there will absolutely give them some cash injections along thew way...

      Much like the many threads that actually advise you to go walking door to door ...

      What comes naturally to a guy like you is what we are all striving for but many havent reached... in the mean time why be broke?

      I still disagree with something here though... If I knew a guy that was starving and needed business.... and he needed to eat TODAY.... I wouldn't tell him to set up a social media network.... I'd say "get on the phone and you can have $500 bucks in your pocket TODAY, and Tomorrow, And the next day...

      Large scale, small scale it works.

      Is this ole time slick snake oil salesman stuff? Isnt it all?

      Here's the FACT, did I say FACT?

      Mom and pop businesses are the backbone of America... and that 50% of America you see that isnt online... thats them.

      There is a LARGE sector that you will never reach on the internet no matter how hard you try... why?

      Because they simply arent there...unless somebody helps them get there like you or me...

      Im not talking about building websites for the coca cola corporation, although some of the telemarketing Insurance leads my room generated for companies like Allstate... have certainly been the door openers for MAJOR insurance deals... like the Tyson corporation... I have friends who deal with Walmart , Lowes Home Depot...

      I had a friend whose telemarketing track record landed him a job at Merrill lynch for 75k plus commission first year. He didnt even graduate from high school... and guess what Merrill Lybch did? They gave him a desk, and a big list of millionaires to cold call. My friend made almost $250,000 his first year. Hard to convince him that telemarketing isnt sophisticated.

      I was "cold calling" agencies when I struck a MAJOR deal (THAT MADE ME OVER A HALF MILLION DOLLARS) in 2002 with Ty Kilinc who at the time was the #1 modeling agent in the world... something that an email would doubtfully have accomplished... looking back it was amazing that he even picked up the phone that day... but when you are taking action things happen. I called him like a dumb unsophisticated telemarketer... and struck a deal that made me a HALF MIL, can you imagine?

      So anyway, go on with your bad self... It's all good. I'm through defending the concept.

      I think the point of this thread which was aimed toward people who need a paycheck (bigger than a job BTW) has been diluted... we're not talking about large corporations here... we arent even talkin about IM... we're talking about "Offline Cash Cows"... based on targeting Mom's and Good ole Pop's.

      Some truths are self evident, and telemarketing is a strong marketing tactic no matter how small or large its scaled out.

      If you think a guy cant make 5-10 million a year with a small telemarketing room... there are thousands of rich call center owners, some of them I know up close and personal... who would laugh and say "Ha. They've been saying that for 50 years"... one inparticular I know who does 10 mil easy and only works 4 hours per week has been doin it all 50 of em!

      So yes, I still believe that not ONLY small business but HUGE business can be generated with telemarketing.

      Other forms of media are great too...

      Honestly my favorite models are a blend of both.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Recent article from Modern Selling... remember, this is Europe, who has instituted a commercial DNC list (coming soon to the US).

      It's subscription and requires a login, so I copied it here for you.
      You win. How could a multi billion dollar industry ever argue the editor of "Modern Selling" magazine?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    And Marketing Sherpa.

    And Forrester Research.

    And SAMI Burke.

    Modern Selling has about 50,000 subscribers of high level sales reps and execs. I'd say that when it comes to industry trending, they're as targeted of a group as any.

    John, you seem to be taking this personally.

    Look, there was a day and time when Wayne Huizinga would have laughed at anyone telling him that Blockbuster would have ended up like it has. Industry cycles come and go. The statistical numbers from all the major industry marketing analysts are based on statistical research conducted with million dollar budgets.

    I didn't make it up. I didn't do the surveys. I don't personally track marketing industry trends. I just buy the very expensive, and very accurate reports from the giant corporations that do.

    And let's be perfectly clear here... never once have I said TELEMARKETING is ineffective. You've interchanged your words, now substituting TELEMARKETING for COLD CALLING. Cold calling is a specific subset of telemarketing. Just like you omitted my clarifying statement about cold calling mom and pop proprietors trying to sell web services, you're now selectively interchanging words that have very different meanings and contexts. You ignored my admission to engaging in the practice. You ignored my statements that it's not a personal bias against the practice, but simply a desire to use the most effective tool for the job IN CONTEXT.

    It would actually seem to me that because of your selective omissions and interchanging of terminology, that you're trying to take the debate in a very different direction. I'm not sure why, because I've built multiple bridges and created many areas of common ground. I even stated that I agree with T.D. that everyone should TEST TEST TEST.

    How the flying motherfu {BEEP} do you think I got to where I am at? Clinging to my personal bias? Or simply accepting the trends as they emerge and learning to adapt as an entrepreneur?

    I don't think cold calling is hard. I don't find it personally offensive. I am quite content with a telephone in my hand talking to a perfect stranger about how to help them in some fashion.

    But I, along with a whole hell of a lot of marketing and sales industry pros far beyond my own scale and scope, see the subset of telemarketing known as cold calling facing a setting sun.

    In fact, when the commercial DNC list comes to America in the next few years, it won't exist at all.

    Then what will the people who failed to adapt do for their $500 SEO by phone deal?

    For the multipleth time... I don't care what people do. Do what you think works for your business. Test it and do the numbers. See what works and what doesn't. Make those cold calls. Keep track of your time and numbers. The article I posted gives you a perfect template to use for comparison purposes against social media - and a bright person could probably come up with some metrics for things like direct mail.

    P.S... the very worst idiot, stammering moron novice hack cold caller will go much further in business and life than the timid dreamer who is afraid to take some kind of action. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Micheal,

      Yeah Im passionate. Im acually a huge fan of yours... every since you accused me of "sending a bunch of newbies all willy nilly starry eyed to Alibaba" lol. I love you man.

      You said I was pulling off a "wonderful Alibaba Arbitrage" I believe, and I remember finding your choice of words to be interesting and quirky... I believe that word stood out to me again today in your posting... I've looked up the definition and still dont quite know what it is...

      It's all good. Maybe I was selective in my reading... lots of thought going on here... I may have read your post while in the middle of another thought process and my mind highlighted whatever. Sorry.

      My agenda? Just to talk about something I know about and try to find my next direction...
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Micheal,

        Yeah Im passionate. Im acually a huge fan of yours... every since you accused me of "sending a bunch of newbies all willy nilly starry eyed to Alibaba" lol. I love you man.

        You said I was pulling off a "wonderful Alibaba Arbitrage" I believe, and I remember finding your choice of words to be interesting and quirky... I believe that word stood out to me again today in your posting... I've looked up the definition and still dont quite know what it is...

        It's all good. Maybe I was selective in my reading... lots of thought going on here... I may have read your post while in the middle of another thought process and my mind highlighted whatever. Sorry.

        My agenda? Just to talk about something I know about and try to find my next direction...
        Hey man, it's all really seriously good. I'd rather have a fist fight with someone who is passionate about what they believe than a love in with some dead wet sock that doesn't care about anything.

        Stay sharp and watch for the flinch. Or in your case, listen for the stammer and go for the close.

        {clinking beer mugs}
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  • Profile picture of the author Hessein
    after reading this amazing thread and the most useful posts i can now give a seminar about it
    no kidding this was the best Business thread i have ever read online
    anyway, in real life here in Egypt it's so hard to find a good Secretary how would you find a good telesales
    in other hand the opportunity of doing business is AWESOME

    this is a call done by me

    me : hey sir this Hessein from BLAH BLAH do you interested of making website for your business?
    customer : yes Mr Hessein i am very interested

    the conversion rate here maybe more than 25% because the Internet business is recently new for the Business in Egypt

    When i talk to marketing management in the largest company here and offering them making website for them they say " we already have one " and i tell them and how about promoting your website online?
    customer : HUH!!!!!!

    OH YEAH, Got You


    anyway, Thanks John for this thread and it maybe my transforming about my business


    PS : sorry for my bad English
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  • Profile picture of the author TheDebtEliminator
    hello John,

    You have a great plan ... and if anyone works the plan it will succeed.

    You can always hire someone or have a relative do it for you, but the bottom line is, it does work.

    Once you get your initial 10 clients, you should be dealing with referrals 90% of the time.

    All the best ... Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author AnneRose88
    HAHA! It's hilarious that someone thinks I would have "emotional issues" or would be "nervous about talking to others." None of it is the case.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by AnneRose88 View Post

      HAHA! It's hilarious that someone thinks I would have "emotional issues" or would be "nervous about talking to others." None of it is the case.
      You're the one saying calling people is hard - I don't know how to explain why that is.

      I think it's crazy to suggest that making phone calls is 'hard'.

      I have no such experience and whatever is making you say it's hard is nothing to do with the actual action - and all to do with your interpretation of it.

      I'd be interested to hear why it is that you seem to believe everyone else will have the same problem.

      Why would anyone choose a business doing something that they couldn't emotionally cope with and that made them miserable? It doesn't make sense, especially in IM when you can create your own business model based on your preferences and strengths.
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      • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        You're the one saying calling people is hard - I don't know how to explain why that is.

        I think it's crazy to suggest that making phone calls is 'hard'.

        I have no such experience and whatever is making you say it's hard is nothing to do with the actual action - and all to do with your interpretation of it.
        I can pick up a four hundred pound barbell without breaking a sweat. It's easy.

        You know, for me.

        On the other hand, I have a fairly strong dislike of talking to people I don't know on the phone (actually, I don't really like talking on the phone at all). I certainly can cold call, and when I have done it, I've been good at it. But it's hard.

        Again, for me.

        You're acting as if because it's easy for you, it should be easy for everyone, which is the same fallacy the person you're arguing with is making. In my experience with people, most people do find cold calling hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author genetic
    In my experience most of this stuff is about your attitude going in. Regardless of whether we're talking about cold calling or any other parts of business. Sometimes it seems like people are allergic to success and it's even been an issue with clients I work with...
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  • Profile picture of the author RogerAderholdt
    Hey John,

    Thanks for the post. YES Telemarketing works and I'm the perfect example of that.

    Went to work for a Vacation Company on a Friday Afternoon. Set up Telemarketing shop for 10 Telemarketers in the next 7 days. By week number 3 we had on average 100 new clients walking thru our door to enjoy our 60 minutes Vacation Presentation.

    TWO Different Vacation Companies we went from ZERO to over $1,000,000 in Vacation Sales in our first 120 days in business.

    Of course that was NOT all profits...

    We ended up expanding to over 100 telemarketers after our first year.

    Hope this inspires you to go pick up the phone and make some calls.

    Good Luck.

    Roger
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by RogerAderholdt View Post

      Hey John,

      Thanks for the post. YES Telemarketing works and I'm the perfect example of that.

      Went to work for a Vacation Company on a Friday Afternoon. Set up Telemarketing shop for 10 Telemarketers in the next 7 days. By week number 3 we had on average 100 new clients walking thru our door to enjoy our 60 minutes Vacation Presentation.

      TWO Different Vacation Companies we went from ZERO to over $1,000,000 in Vacation Sales in our first 120 days in business.

      Of course that was NOT all profits...

      We ended up expanding to over 100 telemarketers after our first year.

      Hope this inspires you to go pick up the phone and make some calls.

      Good Luck.

      Roger

      Nice. Yes once you know how to set up telemarketing shop, numbers like that are just a matter of quantifying and scaling... Awesome success story. Cool!

      Interestingly there are so many people who claim they would never talk to a telemarketer selling vacation packages... but guys like you are still climbing the ranks and breaking records with no signs of slowing down...

      Just goes to show something: "Just because you wouldnt buy it, doesnt mean thousands of others wouldnt" Great, steller, phenomenal work man! You should be commended.
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  • Profile picture of the author WikiWarrior
    Hi John,

    Just wanted to say I've really enjoyed reading your posts these last few days in this and other threads and appreciate the time you've taken to share your knowledge and experiences here. I've literally just started my 'offline' business consultancy and it's been really encouraging to learn more about cold-calling and telemarketing.

    I sent a mailshot to 100 people last week and noone replied so I picked up the phone and got two new clients the first two I rang. I know I was lucky there but it showed me that if I grow some balls and just try, good things can happen so I'm going to do it a lot more now. I used to run my own mail-order company which I sold a couple of years ago - had a great website and sales funnel but it was all reactive so being proactive on the phone drumming up new business is all new to me and a bit of a shock.

    I see you have had lots of ups and downs in business over the years and it's great to see you keep a positive attitude in good times and bad. Look forward to learning more from you and hopefully sharing my own successes soon as I work at my new business.
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  • Profile picture of the author asimbawany
    This thread was very interesting for me and ive been glued to it for the last 1 hour or so in the middle of the night. Why? because i've been a telemarketer for the last 4.5 years and still am.

    While I am not as qualified or experienced as most of you in this thread but I think I'v got something with which I could add one to John's argument.

    here is the scenario...
    3.5 years from today, I was leading a small team of about 15 telemarketers who called on home owners in the US trying to generate live transfer leads for mortgage brokers and lenders alike. Im sure most of you would remember that was the time that sub prime market in the US had just begun to crash... interest rates had shot up a couple of percent in 3 months and it was boiler room in that 150 seater call center. Rejections and hangups were the only thing we received on the phone... all the other teams besides mine that is...

    So while the overall lead generation had dropped for us 75%, the number of leads my team was generating had actually increased by 300%-400%! same data, same call times, same resources... what was it that I did differently?

    I just didnt throw everything on the wall and hope that some of it would stick... I segmented the lists given to me.. i drilled them down to states, time zones, interest rates, types of mortgage, etc and micro managed how each of my agents called these segments. I customized their scripts for each of these segment and the product they offered to them. were my agents better than the rest? NO Infact they were less experienced. at that time I was a 20 year old college student trying to make ends meet with a job to pay for my bachelors degree.

    So my point here is... at that age with only a year of total work experience, if I could pull this off ... in an industry and economy that had started to crumble... why cant all you business owners who are experts in your fields do it at a time like now when things are beginning to look up again.... a hundred calls a day is a breeze...

    and AnneRose... I so not agree with you when you say its "hard"... on the contrary, its very easy... seriously all you're doing is talking to perfect strangers on the phone! what could you possibly lose?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Antoni
      Hey John,

      Great post. In my younger days (being from Tampa Bay, FL) I've worked at a gazillion telemarketing places.

      And it does work. You wouldn't believe some of the people I worked for (or maybe you would lol) and how much money they made.

      I have a few different offline businesses and telemarketing is definitely something I'm gonna use for growth.

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Love ya Brucerby!

    OMG What an AWESOME point you are making!

    I was just thinking that should be added to the equation here:

    "DISTRACTION"

    As a young telemarketer, I used to draw pictures while I made calls... something about drawing pictures while you're are talking to someone made it seem a little more laid back....

    I guess when people hear us talking of cheerios, and sub sandwiches they think it's cockiness... you are explaining that it is actually a technique we use to get the mindset right, energy, whatever you call it. "To get in the groove".

    People smell your anxiety about cold calling like dogs. The more comfortable you are, there more comfortable you will sound, and the more comfortable they will be...

    EDIT: I wrote a bunch of stuff here then edited it out because honestly Bruce said it all perfectly.

    Bruce this is the kind of practical advice that can really help people.


    Originally Posted by brucerby View Post


    When I have needed to cold call over the years, that description (pour a bowl of cereal and milk and watch tv in the background is EXACTLY what I have done - maybe not cereal, but a sub sandwich lol

    There's something about being a bit distracted that makes it all easier. It has to be a case of, "i don't really care" ...and then you can get on with the job you need to do.

    And having been in a training of John's sometime back I am very convinced he has done what he's saying. There's no way he's talking theory.
    _____
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    Thanks John...just to add to this, I've found its easier (and faster) to change one's PHYSICAL STATE than the MENTAL state.

    Get the physical right, and the mental can follow. So, if I place myself in a relaxed physical environment, and have some distractions, it enables me to adopt a calm "unconcerned about the outcome" attitude.

    Its the only way I've found to remove any pressure. And calls made under pressure show through, as you've said.

    Tony Robbin's teachings about changing states also applies here.
    Very good discussion, btw!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Gina!

    Okay Guys I now have a link in my sig... Im gonna go ahead and write a detailed report on how to make this work for ANYONE real simple and easy like. If you follow my instructions you will have made $500 -$1000 in biz within 72 hours.

    Yeah there are other ways... this one is quick , simple, legit, and it will put money in your pocket when you need it - NOW!

    ... and hopefully MINE TOO... We'll see. I have never sold a report before.

    So anyway, I just threw a scrap page up on a domain I used last month to showcase a closeout load overseas, but next week I will create a proper domain for this.

    Please click below if you want an email alert when the report is done.

    Thanks for making this a great thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sonomacats
    Some of us are just not cut out to be telemarketers. I've tried it and hated it. I've also been an appointment setter. Was pretty good at it. Hated it. Quit fairly quickly.

    I also am not comfortable walking into a business of any kind and asking them if they need online assistance. It might not be hard, but there's no way in hell I can force myself into it because it's simply not my thing. (Yes, I've done door to door and hated that, too.)

    So what if I hate it. Doesn't mean I have to do it. It's not me, and I'm not going to fight it. All I have to do is hire a commission only person to do it for me. Or someone to make the initial visit to a place face to face and then turn it over to me.

    Go on Craigslist and find someone local to do it for you if telemarketing (or physical cold calling) isn't your thing. They get the leads and make the appointments and all I do is show up and have a conversation about what I can do for them.

    The other thing that's worked for me since 2006 is giving talks to business groups. I get 20 minutes to give a ton of information. At the end, my workshops are full (I teach people how to do IM for their business). At the end of the workshops, when they realize what it takes, they're lined up to hire me to do it for them.

    Chances are that if there's something that needs to be done, but you hate doing it, you're never going to be able to bring yourself to do it. No matter what.

    The good news is that you don't have to. And that's the important point here. Hire someone to do it for you. Find another way. You don't have to do the things you hate.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Sonomacats View Post

      Some of us are just not cut out to be telemarketers. I've tried it and hated it. I've also been an appointment setter. Was pretty good at it. Hated it. Quit fairly quickly.

      I also am not comfortable walking into a business of any kind and asking them if they need online assistance. It might not be hard, but there's no way in hell I can force myself into it because it's simply not my thing. (Yes, I've done door to door and hated that, too.)

      So what if I hate it. Doesn't mean I have to do it. It's not me, and I'm not going to fight it. All I have to do is hire a commission only person to do it for me. Or someone to make the initial visit to a place face to face and then turn it over to me.

      Go on Craigslist and find someone local to do it for you if telemarketing (or physical cold calling) isn't your thing. They get the leads and make the appointments and all I do is show up and have a conversation about what I can do for them.

      The other thing that's worked for me since 2006 is giving talks to business groups. I get 20 minutes to give a ton of information. At the end, my workshops are full (I teach people how to do IM for their business). At the end of the workshops, when they realize what it takes, they're lined up to hire me to do it for them.

      Chances are that if there's something that needs to be done, but you hate doing it, you're never going to be able to bring yourself to do it. No matter what.

      The good news is that you don't have to. And that's the important point here. Hire someone to do it for you. Find another way. You don't have to do the things you hate.
      If you have the fortitude to hire someone to sell for you then thats a great idea... this is for those who need it, and yes some think its hard, just like some think affiliate marketing is hard...

      Winners and losers... its all about determination... you want it or you dont. You want it bad enough to go out and get business, or hire ssomeone to do it for you, or you dont.

      Those that dont are pipe dreaming becuse it takes alot of "want" to succeed... even the easy ways.

      You dont have to do business if you dont want to..., but you just wont be successful... even getting others to take action for you, outsourcing... it all requifres work. You think managing outsources isnt some work. I bet alot of people here would say differently. I sure would. I have designed perfect slaes systems and managed successful businesses for othewrs... literally I have personally trained 1000 people... but, let me tell you, even though it was them on the phone and not me, getting those rooms to break records was alot of passionate blood sweat and tears.

      Sales managers who dont like to work have sucky unmotivated sales teams that dont produce either on or offline.

      Listen Im not saying telemarketing is the end all be all... just saying that if you want business, you can get some "TODAY", not tommorrow, not when your adwords start converting, or when your funneling system is perfect... if you need business TODAY, this will get it for you.

      BTW alot of good thoughts there. Thanks.

      Even if you outsource web design you have to write detailed clear instructions for the desiners and work with them daily on tweaks for each specific job... try having 10 websites going at once... with others doing all the design work... tell yourself "Im outsourcing the work" and then ask yourself if your are still "working".

      This has been another message from :"The voice of experience".

      @ Gina, thanks for bein so helpful! What a great resource. I have no affiliation with go leads so... I just quoted the last price I paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author EternalIncome4U
    I've seen these two things mentioned briefly here in this post, but as they are important and valuable I shall expound on them.

    First, I very well know how hard cold calling can be for some, how much "it can suck". Many people are just not set up to call complete strangers and offer them something they may have no need or desire for and then, worst of all for many would be phone-pros, getting rejection after rejection.

    Two important things. In case anyone reading this thread doesn't know, B2C or residential cold-calling is almost completely gone the way of the Dodo. A significant percentage of the North American population is already on DNC lists and more join every day. Companies breaking the FTC & FCC laws and regulations regarding DNC lists face a first time fine of $16,000 per call.

    However, at present there are no such regulations for B2B (business to business) calling.

    A great way to reach 1000's of potential customers without making a single cold call is Voice Broadcasting. With all due respect to the OP, John I think it may have been some time since you last looked at this technology.

    I spent a significant amount of time investigating this marketing technique and many of the companies involved in it; this is how it works. It's simple. You prepare a 30 second message advertising your product/service etc., included in that message is the option to press 1 if the listener would like to hear more about it, or press 2 to be placed on a DNC list. If the listener presses 1 then they are transferred live to you, and presto, there you go! A warm, live lead. Much better and more responsive than a cold call. The lead generation company's software/dialer then makes 1000's of calls, playing your 30 second message to everyone who answers the phone. While true it may not always be the decision maker answering the phone, usually non-owners won't be pressing 1 anyway which means (if you're with the right lead generation company) you won't be paying for that call anyway (more on this in a second). And as mentioned earlier in this thread, if you target small companies, your chances of having the decision maker answer the phone are much higher.

    One company in particular that I found to be highly reputable and responsive charges per live lead transferred to you (most companies charge by the minute). So in other words, it does not matter how many 1000's of calls they have to make for you, you pay for and are guaranteed a certain amount of leads, based on the package you choose. As well, through an easy to learn interface you have complete control over the frequency of calls you get transferred to you. The smallest package this particular company offers is $400 for 100 transfers (leads), at greater volume orders the price per lead goes down obviously.

    My personal results with this type of campaign were very good and we had a very satisfactory ROI. (This was with the company I used to work as the Director of Sales & Marketing for-until I quit last week as they hadn't paid me for a month because one of the owners spent most of the money I had earned them fixing his damaged Mercedes...but that's another story. Sometimes living in a Mexican paradise isn't always paradisaical.)

    If you don't like cold calling but want to take advantage of the potential sales telemarketing can bring you, B2B Voice Broadcasting is definitely a type of marketing I would highly recommend. (and certainly do go with a company that charges by the lead, not the minute)


    PS Thanks for another great thread John!
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  • Profile picture of the author rolltide
    John,
    I opted in to your site last night in your sig. However, I didn't receive an email. Was I suppose to?
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    • Profile picture of the author Venturetothetop
      As a business owner I can tell you I am fed up of cold calls and avoid them like the plague, I even have my dragons breathe fire down the line way before the call gets to me.

      There is however a workaround that I posted in another thread on this forum, but I will rewrite here.

      I used this trick as I was not a saleman by nature. Picking up the phone and selling frightened the crap out of me, so I started by using this trick, and kind of never gave it up.

      What I used to do is this:

      1) Select an industry Iw as going to target (works well if you target the same industry)

      2) Write a set of questions you would ask an expert in that industry that would help you sell or create rapport with someone within that industry (maybe 5 questions).

      3) Add another 2 questions related to your business but not selling. For example if I am a SEO consultant, I may ask :
      i) How important is your website in attracting customers
      ii) In what ways do your customer find out about your website

      4) I then ring someone in the industry and tell them I am doing some industry research and looking for 'an expert opinion' - note, you are not lying, you are doing research and they are the expert here.

      5) Ask the questions, delve deeper if interested, thank them and hang up.

      6) Ring the next person, same script but now you have some background knowledge so you also sound like a little expert ! Amazing how well the conversation will flow from here!

      7) A few days later, compile a mini report based on the conversation you had and send it to everyone (make sure to add a few experts names to feed the ego) - add a flyer at the back describing your service.

      8) Send it to industry newspapers/magazines and perhaps get published, giving you greater credibilty - you have just conducted interesting industry research and hopefully got great answers to interesting questions.

      9) Wait for the return calls from people who like your report you sent them, or in one week ring them back and plug your service a little (you know the gatekeeper and the end client so its no longer a cold call!)

      I used this with tremendous success and am even writing a book about it which I will release free soon on my blog. It's a little slower then hard cold calling, but since I was not selling it mentally made it a lot easier for me. It also helped me gain access to journalists which was crucial for my business. Importantly when you see the customer in real life, you have already proven you know something about the industry so you no longer have to worry about proving youself.....

      That was a quick writeup so I hope its understandable and that it helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derwin
    You had made great points here that i can not tell you here. You have made n outstanding effort. i appreciate your effort.you have made very good tips. Good thing in business is direct contact and relationship with the clients.cold calling and dialing numbers is one of the most effective strategy in business.
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  • Profile picture of the author jsherloc
    Cold calling works, and as others mentioned, it is a numbers game. I believe it is also a niche game. Meaning, some respond better to cold calls than others. I'd recommend giving away/offering SOMETHING of value right away though, you'll stand out and usually get some better contact details upfront. Make it personalized too, as if it is too general or broad, it is not really of value to the biz owner, you know?

    Personally though, I'd rather work with 3 people in three different industries for free in exchange for testimonials and referrals if you're looking to get clients RIGHT AWAY. The time it takes me to give three business owners value on the net (through a variety of ways), I can get clients for months to come just off of word of mouth alone. Obviously the key is to target people with a good amount of contacts in the community.

    I'd rather work for free for a week, and have clients for months that ALREEADY BELIEVE WHAT I'M OFFERING CAN HELP THEM (their buddy told them)....than cold call for a week, and get 10 "prospects", but still have to do some more informing/selling/persuading/etc.

    Having done this for a bit my best advice for cold calling is to offer something of value right of the bat, for free. And make sure it is personalized. (could be a 30 sec video, etc). Hope that helps some people.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Guys the report is on the way, I have been working on it for most of the day today and it is coming along marvelously... I'm hopin it will enlighten some people, and really open some eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author bloger7hy
    I do agree :p
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  • Profile picture of the author TPFLegionaire
    Bit of background from me:

    I have about 18 month experience of telesales (outbound) , 7 years inside sales ( mostly inbound and account management)...and 4 years of door to door selling (pitching people at work )

    It all works...But some metrics need to be taken into consideration , pay particular attention to your ROI (Return on Investment) both of time and money.

    I post two links below of telemarketing approaches that align perfectly with me:

    Telephone Selling Techniques That Really Work:...Telephone Selling Techniques That Really Work:...
    This is by Bill Good , try to pick up a later version.As you can see, you can pick up this book very cheap

    the other is from Scott Channel , buy is seminar in a box at 187$ , awesome stuff

    If any body has any specific questions about cold calling, telemarketing or door to door sales...I would be happy to help (PM me)

    Hope this helps
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    Save Kim Winfrey! Buy the WSO or donate.
    As an aside use the products in the WSO to make tons of cash!
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  • Profile picture of the author rolltide
    John Durham-can you pm me your email address?

    Thanks
    Signature

    Make $150 everytime someone backs up their computer!
    http://goo.gl/07M6K

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by rolltide View Post

      John Durham-can you pm me your email address?

      Thanks
      Is this Marko? He's the only one I know who both loves Alabama, and calls me by both my first and last name.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by rolltide View Post

      John Durham-can you pm me your email address?

      Thanks
      Try thecloseoutguy@yahoo.com

      Im in there alot lately, because Im workin on a closeout deal. I will look for your email.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Gina

    What is your conversion ratio?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Rock and Roll!

    Thats awesome. so you have an 8-10% conversion ratio. Thats healthy.

    I would love to hear more about your systems and numbers... for the benefit of the readers here. This thread could potentially help broaden the mindsets of alot of people.

    To say that telemarketing is not sophisticated... is simply not sophisticated. It can and does work synergistically with the net to create brilliant , perfectly balanced marketing systems, by intertwining the two, that are stronger than either one alone.

    Some people think telemarketing is hard because, let's say they should expect a 5% conversion ratio given their situation; they really dont grasp that because there is a 95% failure rate... all the see is failure.

    Expectations management is key... "Expect" that you are working towards that 5%... in fact set your self up so you only need 2 successes a day to be successful.

    Create for yourself a system that even a "below average person" can enjoy a modicum of success.

    Expectations management: I need to talk about that in this report.

    Better get back to working on it now...
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Kennedy
    John, I REALLY like this thread. Lots of good ideads been thrown about so thanks. But can I say one thing? PLEASE, PLEASE use another font in your closeoutguy copy. Comic Sans is TERRIBLE lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Scott Kennedy View Post

      John, I REALLY like this thread. Lots of good ideads been thrown about so thanks. But can I say one thing? PLEASE, PLEASE use another font in your closeoutguy copy. Comic Sans is TERRIBLE lol.
      I could give a hoot about what the sales page copy looks like. I just can't wait to see what the actual report looks like!

      How we doin' there, John?
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      End procrastination with this simple project time tracker.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by perryny View Post

        I could give a hoot about what the sales page copy looks like. I just can't wait to see what the actual report looks like!

        How we doin' there, John?
        You guys are awesome. lol

        Truth is I have built million dollar businesses before, but I have never written a money making report... The warrior forum has been a place of great inspiration for me but I have never thought of it as a place I used to actually market anything or make money... it was always something I just participated in for comradery and inspiration because most of my projects I have felt had little relevence to what was going on here.

        In hindsight that could have appeared wasteful to other marketers in the sense that I didnt have a sig link... and people thought I was starting frenzy's for no good reason... all dressed up and no place to go...

        Truth is I wasnt thinking of anything but SHARING.

        But Around 2007 Andrew Cavanagh Started talking about this "offline" cash cow thing...

        Im sitting here reading it saying to myself "Wow. I have been doing this for years... even managing large comany's who do it on a massive scale..."

        Still, I was making money offline and saw no need to add my two cents...

        Now, after arguing with a moderator and being banned for a month... after ten years of surfing the warrior forum... it finally clicked to me...

        I saw that I not only had something to offer, but that I had been a very wasteful person all these years because I didnt have a link in my sig or a product to promote I thought...

        No wonder all these people thought I was bein cocky... it just dawned on me... I have started several frenzy's in here.

        For instance: Do you see the tons of cold calling threads that are popping up this week?

        It was this VERY thread that started all of that.

        NOW

        Interestingly,

        This is the second time I've done this...

        Last year I started talking about a closeout deal on a thread that I just made, and suddenly it had over 200 replies...

        Guess what? I didnt have a report to offer anyone... aside from the replies on thread, I had literally over 200 requests in my box for a report...

        I wasnt prepared, and that opportunity to share my system and knowledge, as well as the opportunity to produce income with passed me by...

        Let's fast forward to TODAY:

        I now am POSITIVE that the offline marketing world needs to know what I have been doing secretly in the offline world for years... while surfing the warrior forum...

        It has been a truly PHENOMENAL ride...

        So, I am 2/3 of the way through my report now and hope to have it finished by two am this morning...

        About the comic sans"... as I said wasnt prepared for this, didnt even have a domain... I stuck my toe in the water to see if anyone would be interested enogh that it would warrant writing a report and BLAMMM!!!!

        I just threw some text on a web page that was already up and I was done using... personally comic sans makes me giddy inside like reading 'Jug head" comic strip, however unsophisticated... it was meant to be kinda hoaky and tongue in cheek.

        So anyway,

        Here we are, no website, no newsletter email series pre-made, no finished report products... I really dint think the interest would be this high...

        Am I worried about the competition right now who are all rushing to write telemarketing reports?

        No.

        Just as in the offline world, competition does not stop people from succeeding... there is enough abundance for all... aside from that, "sure, there are gonna be other reports..." Honestly though, I dont think any of them have my experience... I dont think one of those report writers have trained over 1000 telemarketers as I have , nor do they have the vast diversity of experience overall...

        So... you can get it anywhere, but if you want it straight from the horses mouth, then just call me "Mr. Ed"

        Here's is what I have infront of me this weekend:

        1: Finish report
        2: New "Full" membership to WF
        3: Set up Aweber
        4: Hire a copywriter to put up a wso page for me.
        5: Begin creating a website with a free forum, so my customers who need ongoing telemarketing support can recieve it on a regular basis.

        Anyway, it all starts here, and I am ready to stpe up. I have coached very large teams and given 100 of public speeches...

        Certainly I can do the same thing, and be the same champion maker in this forum in my nich area, and truly help change some peoples lives, and in the process enjoy the fruits of my years of experience by writing these reports and providing internet support syustems for people who truly need to know what I know...

        So thank you for all of your enthusiasm and support thus far... I promise you will not be disapointed, and I promise that you cannot learn this from a better or more qualified person...

        Better get back to work.

        @ Gina, by "sytems" I mean the "flow"... how leads are generated, how they work synergistically with the telemarketers pitch, how that translates with relevance to the actual face to face meeting.

        Lead>Phone call>Face to face meeting>Closing > Fullfillment > Backend Marketing>... Also can include stuff like telemarketing pay structures... salesmen... how do you achieve "profit" after all the overhead...

        Each are seperate functions but they work together relevently somehow. Evidence of that is the fact that your system is actually working...

        Maybe your system is a "report of" its own. maybe whats old hat to you might be a new concept and very inspiring to another... I find that alot of people are on all the new band wagons and they are oblivious to the old ones which are time tested and based on principles that will always work.

        When follks hear about our old school prinicples they get ideas for how to incorporate them into new school... and IM evolution happens just as Andrew intiated with the "Offline cash cow " stuff.

        He truly was the catalyst a few years ago for a new generation and even definition of "Hybrid" Intenrnet Marketers.

        Anyway, see you all later. Im back to work.

        Ps, Gina

        I just find it interesting how elements of systems work together with relevence to one another... and produce a whole entity that does what it is supposed to do like clockwork... maybe others would be interested and it would increase their faith and understanding.

        I didnt mean to put you on the spot.
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        • Profile picture of the author WikiWarrior
          Hey guys,

          Thought some of you reading this thread might like to see some raw figures from a newbs recent cold-calling efforts. This is my first time cold-calling and I started last Thursday, so today marks 7 days on the phone. I've been calling a range of different type local businesses offering consultancy services e.g. to mechanics, gardeners, used car dealers, electricians. It's been a bit stop-start because I've done this around my regular job so I could only do about 45 mins to an hour most days.

          Anyway, here are my figures so far:

          3 hours - Researching target customers
          7 Hours - Total time spent on phone (5 hours 'in-call' and est. 2 hours wasted staring at phone between calls, eheh )
          100 - Est. total calls made including repeated calls when no answer/voicemail
          40 - Businesses contacted
          10 - No answer
          8 - Not interested
          10 - Leads
          3 - Sales (!)
          2 - Meetings
          1 - Possible consulting/website design deal (meeting next week!)
          1 - Possible JV - making a huge FaceBook group for client of all football club players in the county so they can be updated on other game results straight after match/es (?)
          3 Hours - Time taken to do all client work
          1 Hour - Total time wasted thinking about lame excuses people made not to sign up for the services I offered.

          13 - Total hours worked
          $400 earned
          $20 - est. phone bill based on mix of chargeable minutes and using free minutes on mobile and landline
          Hourly earnings $29.23

          Thoughts/Reflections

          What were people like on the phone?

          All the people I spoke to were polite even the ones that just weren't interested and said so before I could launch into my 'spiel'. In fact, after a few hours making calls I appreciated when people who weren't interested just said no quickly so I could get on to the next call and not waste time and phone costs.

          How did I feel before, during and after calls?

          The first 3 or 4 days I was a bit apprehensive, mostly about whether I would be taken seriously and if people would be rude to me. It was quite draining too, worrying about making those first few sales. After I got used to my patter though and handling objections I felt a lot more confident and am not so bothered now about hearing people say 'no' or 'not interested, thanks'. I also feel proud about 'growing some balls and making some calls'.

          Will I keep going?

          Hell yes. I only need 1 sale a day on average to make a nice return, even less if they want a website or some other additional/recurring services. I'm confident all I need to do is increase the amount of time I spend doing this and I will be able to close more. Plus, the business owners are really pleased with the work I've done for them and one has told some of his other business owner friends about me and said I was welcome to leave some business cards with him. He couldn't believe it when I got his local business listing to number one within a day for his main services (I was surprised too as I thought someone from Google had to come along in 3 weeks and approve it).

          @John - Really looking forward to your report.
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          • Profile picture of the author dsprank
            Originally Posted by YOUniversityLife View Post

            Hey guys,

            Anyway, here are my figures so far:

            3 hours - Researching target customers
            7 Hours - Total time spent on phone (5 hours 'in-call' and est. 2 hours wasted staring at phone between calls, eheh )
            100 - Est. total calls made including repeated calls when no answer/voicemail
            40 - Businesses contacted
            10 - No answer
            8 - Not interested
            10 - Leads
            3 - Sales (!)
            2 - Meetings
            1 - Possible consulting/website design deal (meeting next week!)
            1 - Possible JV - making a huge FaceBook group for client of all football club players in the county so they can be updated on other game results straight after match/es (?)
            3 Hours - Time taken to do all client work
            1 Hour - Total time wasted thinking about lame excuses people made not to sign up for the services I offered.

            13 - Total hours worked
            $400 earned
            $20 - est. phone bill based on mix of chargeable minutes and using free minutes on mobile and landline
            Hourly earnings $29.23
            Your hourly earnings could have been even higher if you did not kill off two hours in there. Still it is not bad pay for staring at the phone!

            I hope some of the other people here that think cold calling does not work for some reason or other, see your post. Just like everything else it takes practice in order to get better at it, as you can see. keep us updated on how you progress. You are only going to make more money while those other people are sitting at the computer, waiting for the big money to fall in their lap.
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            • Profile picture of the author joshril
              Originally Posted by dsprank View Post

              Your hourly earnings could have been even higher if you did not kill off two hours in there. Still it is not bad pay for staring at the phone!

              I hope some of the other people here that think cold calling does not work for some reason or other, see your post. Just like everything else it takes practice in order to get better at it, as you can see. keep us updated on how you progress. You are only going to make more money while those other people are sitting at the computer, waiting for the big money to fall in their lap.
              You could also contact a lot more businesses by utilizing a predictive dialer like CallFire or Mojo Selling Solutions.

              More business contacts in a shorter period of time would greatly improve your hourly wage.
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        • Profile picture of the author graphicsgenie
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          You guys are awesome. lol

          Truth is I have built million dollar businesses before, but I have never written a money making report... The warrior forum has been a place of great inspiration for me but I have never thought of it as a place I used to actually market anything or make money... it was always something I just participated in for comradery and inspiration because most of my projects I have felt had little relevence to what was going on here.

          In hindsight that could have appeared wasteful to other marketers in the sense that I didnt have a sig link... and people thought I was starting frenzy's for no good reason... all dressed up and no place to go...

          Truth is I wasnt thinking of anything but SHARING.

          But Around 2007 Andrew Cavanagh Started talking about this "offline" cash cow thing...

          Im sitting here reading it saying to myself "Wow. I have been doing this for years... even managing large comany's who do it on a massive scale..."

          Still, I was making money offline and saw no need to add my two cents...

          Now, after arguing with a moderator and being banned for a month... after ten years of surfing the warrior forum... it finally clicked to me...

          I saw that I not only had something to offer, but that I had been a very wasteful person all these years because I didnt have a link in my sig or a product to promote I thought...

          No wonder all these people thought I was bein cocky... it just dawned on me... I have started several frenzy's in here.

          For instance: Do you see the tons of cold calling threads that are popping up this week?

          It was this VERY thread that started all of that.

          NOW

          Interestingly,

          This is the second time I've done this...

          Last year I started talking about a closeout deal on a thread that I just made, and suddenly it had over 200 replies...

          Guess what? I didnt have a report to offer anyone... aside from the replies on thread, I had literally over 200 requests in my box for a report...

          I wasnt prepared, and that opportunity to share my system and knowledge, as well as the opportunity to produce income with passed me by...

          Let's fast forward to TODAY:

          I now am POSITIVE that the offline marketing world needs to know what I have been doing secretly in the offline world for years... while surfing the warrior forum...

          It has been a truly PHENOMENAL ride...

          So, I am 2/3 of the way through my report now and hope to have it finished by two am this morning...

          About the comic sans"... as I said wasnt prepared for this, didnt even have a domain... I stuck my toe in the water to see if anyone would be interested enogh that it would warrant writing a report and BLAMMM!!!!

          I just threw some text on a web page that was already up and I was done using... personally comic sans makes me giddy inside like reading 'Jug head" comic strip, however unsophisticated... it was meant to be kinda hoaky and tongue in cheek.

          So anyway,

          Here we are, no website, no newsletter email series pre-made, no finished report products... I really dint think the interest would be this high...

          Am I worried about the competition right now who are all rushing to write telemarketing reports?

          No.

          Just as in the offline world, competition does not stop people from succeeding... there is enough abundance for all... aside from that, "sure, there are gonna be other reports..." Honestly though, I dont think any of them have my experience... I dont think one of those report writers have trained over 1000 telemarketers as I have , nor do they have the vast diversity of experience overall...

          So... you can get it anywhere, but if you want it straight from the horses mouth, then just call me "Mr. Ed"

          Here's is what I have infront of me this weekend:

          1: Finish report
          2: New "Full" membership to WF
          3: Set up Aweber
          4: Hire a copywriter to put up a wso page for me.
          5: Begin creating a website with a free forum, so my customers who need ongoing telemarketing support can recieve it on a regular basis.

          Anyway, it all starts here, and I am ready to stpe up. I have coached very large teams and given 100 of public speeches...

          Certainly I can do the same thing, and be the same champion maker in this forum in my nich area, and truly help change some peoples lives, and in the process enjoy the fruits of my years of experience by writing these reports and providing internet support syustems for people who truly need to know what I know...

          So thank you for all of your enthusiasm and support thus far... I promise you will not be disapointed, and I promise that you cannot learn this from a better or more qualified person...

          Better get back to work.

          @ Gina, by "sytems" I mean the "flow"... how leads are generated, how they work synergistically with the telemarketers pitch, how that translates with relevance to the actual face to face meeting.

          Lead>Phone call>Face to face meeting>Closing > Fullfillment > Backend Marketing>... Also can include stuff like telemarketing pay structures... salesmen... how do you achieve "profit" after all the overhead...

          Each are seperate functions but they work together relevently somehow. Evidence of that is the fact that your system is actually working...

          Maybe your system is a "report of" its own. maybe whats old hat to you might be a new concept and very inspiring to another... I find that alot of people are on all the new band wagons and they are oblivious to the old ones which are time tested and based on principles that will always work.

          When follks hear about our old school prinicples they get ideas for how to incorporate them into new school... and IM evolution happens just as Andrew intiated with the "Offline cash cow " stuff.

          He truly was the catalyst a few years ago for a new generation and even definition of "Hybrid" Intenrnet Marketers.

          Anyway, see you all later. Im back to work.

          Ps, Gina

          I just find it interesting how elements of systems work together with relevence to one another... and produce a whole entity that does what it is supposed to do like clockwork... maybe others would be interested and it would increase their faith and understanding.

          I didnt mean to put you on the spot.
          John,

          I PM'd you several days ago, offering to help you free of charge, including website / forum etc...

          Not sure why you didnt even reply, assuming you think I am one of the following:-

          1) Not of sufficient quality to be of assistance

          2) Trying to scam you

          3) Won't follow up with what I have proposed

          Would appreciate a reply. If you would prefer to labor over this yourself I understand, a lot of people don't trust peoples offer of help. As you say on your squeeze page, you close out deals, not create website/squeeze pages....

          I design website/squeeze pages, but like to build a relationship with a guy who closes deals, nothing more.

          To Your Success

          Darren
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Youniversityforlife

    AWESOME!!!!

    Thats what Im talkin about!

    The best part is this:

    "Those are just the contacts you made off the intial 100 calls... wait till you see over the next few weeks how you start getting call ins from the messages you forgot you left...!

    This is how we roll on the phone folks!

    Great testimonial!

    What a great contribution to our cause in this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    Very interesting thread. I think both of you michael and john got your own point of view. I think you both are right. You both think , social media and cold calling can be effective. The discussion is about conversion rate. Now, conversion rates depend upon person to person. Personally, i am business owner and i dont find it offensive when someone call me with their sales pitch. Thats how the world moves, i am myself a marketer ,how can i hate marketing pitch.

    But, also i get 2,3 pitches in a week . When someone call me personally for business, i respect him. I respect him that he got balls to do cold calling. It shows the person is serious enough to call me. It also shows me that he must be somewhat expert. Coz i can blast so many questions to test his knowledge.

    Personally, i havnt done cold calling. As an internet marketer, generating leads from internet is easy for me. But someone who is starting up and feeling frustrated about his own online personal failures. He may get benefit by cold calling.

    I completely agree that its all about testing. In the end, i think thread is all about "If you got no money, get your ass off, take some action and do this.......
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  • Profile picture of the author moneystudents
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by moneystudents View Post

      Might be a great idea, but I see this technique not working in the future.
      Lol...That what my grandpa said. You need to pre order my report. It should be ready tomorrow.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ graphicsgenie

    Pm'd, and interested to hear what you have in mind. Sorry for delayed response.
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