Sales Page Not Converting Revisited - Thanks!

13 replies
Hey guys, just checking in. Some of you might recall that I posted after I was having a rough go w/ my sales page - cause it was pretty horrible.
http://warriorforum.com/main-interne...need-help.html

I got a lot of great advice and decided to start from scratch.

This is what the page originally looked like:
http://makemathmore.com/offer1482

I then tried to take as much advice as possible and just do a quick turn around to gage if it was better. I came up with following quickly:

http://makemathmore.com/offer92

I started getting longer stay times, an e-mail inquiry and even my first sale. Now this is over the course of 3 days, so not mind blowing by any means, but it gave me hope.

Feeling good, I improved (I hope) upon the page and got to some more suggestions like redesigned e-cover, pictures, video, and more visual appeal. I just finished it today, and probably won't open up the adwords floodgates until monday, but I would love to get some thoughts.

http://makemathmore.com

I'm not saying it is an amazing sales page, and I still have plenty of optimization to do. If you have any other thoughts or comments I would love to hear them. But overall, I just wanted to say thanks for those that took the time set me on the path to improvement... thanks!

-Matt
#converting #page #revisited #sales
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Hello Matt,

    You requested additional feedback. I studied your sales page and
    can offer some things for you to consider. In case you're wondering,
    I am a copywriter and online marketer.

    Overall, the page is not hard on the eyes regarding color and general
    layout. I'll make some suggestions about the text layout in a moment.
    You have good use of graphics to break-up the text.

    I'll address the following:

    Headline
    Logical flow and sequencing
    Credibility
    Sales elements
    Guarantee

    There will probably be some overlap.

    First, there are two considerations for you in your copy. I'm sure you
    have thought about them. You're selling to people who teach math. So
    that is your primary audience, however they (and therefore you) will
    probably think of their audience which is the students. So they will also
    be thinking of how well your product will help them succeed with their
    audience.

    So you need to cover both bases in your copy. But remember your primary
    audience is people who teach math.

    With that said, your headline seems to be out of sync, and I'll explain why.
    It is not targeted to your primary audience. I understand your point in the
    headline, but it comes across as more of an implied benefit to the primary
    audience rather than directly addressing their concerns.

    The people you're selling to want to know what they will personally gain from
    buying your product. So in that sense the headline misses the mark and therefore
    becomes weaker and diluted. Also...

    The headline is weak because you're making an opinion-based assertion. The
    students "will want to do again and again." Really? Why should I believe that?
    How do I know that's true, or that "my" students will want to do them again
    and again. That approach contributes to the weakness of the headline.

    Logical flow:

    The copy needs to be a bit longer so you can allow for a more effective "process."

    The optimal structure for a sales letter follows a certain sequence or logical flow.
    Remember that consumers (people) are selfish and basically want to know what they'll
    get out of the product/service. They're interested in your insofar as they believe in
    your expertise, credibility, and can develop a sense of trust in you and your product.

    So, it's good that you introduce yourself in the beginning - generally speaking. But you
    have to quickly move into the meat of the matter. In the traditional sales letter, the
    intro paragraph is usually a strong hook that will serve to further capture attention and
    draw the reader along to the next part.

    I would suggest you keep your name there right up front, but I would also immediately
    add some small (and very short) comment that will plant a seed of credibility.

    Give a few quick facts about yourself such as number of years teaching and even
    where you currently teach. I realize some people are uncomfortable with revealing
    that kind of information. But if it was me, I wouldn't have a problem stating that
    I teach in whatever school where ever that is located.

    Then, I would keep the rest of the first paragraph. I also agree with your assertion
    and would even state that has probably been true for a very long time. Students
    cannot understand the value of learning math, so that detracts from motivation
    to learn it.

    Plus, I'm sure those who teach math understand all the issues very well. So no
    need to dwell too much on that.

    The second paragraph is a tough one to deal with because it's full of comments
    that basically ask the reader to believe what you're saying. I do understand
    very well that issues with providing proof-positive are difficult if not impossible
    unless you provided something like video testimonials, etc. Still, some people
    would doubt the veracity of that kind of social proof; although I would use
    legitimate video testimonials any day.

    Here's a quote from your copy:

    "I have now been using these lessons with my students over the past 3 years
    and have had amazing results with them and I know you will too."

    Generally speaking, you can use words like "amazing," but if you cannot back
    that up with some kind of solid evidence then it can have a negative effect.
    People will tend to ignore your assertion that you've had amazing results and
    that you know they will, too.

    I suggest you provide "any" specific information you can such as exactly when
    you started using the material in your own classes. For example, "I started
    using these same strategies in the fall semester of 2007." Things like specifics
    that involve numbers, statistics, etc tend to make people pause and read
    them. Plus they contribute to the credibility of your statements.

    Also, can you give any kind of data that your material helped your students
    to achieve higher grades in math? I realize there are privacy issues. But you
    can give general, and truthful, data that the average grades have increased
    by such and such an amount since you started using your material.

    Here's the thing that your copy lacks, and including this copy element into
    your page will help you.

    Consider that when people read your copy, they will be thinking in terms of
    "choices." That is natural, but it's also something you want to encourage
    because you can use it to your advantage.

    You can use it by talking about why your material is unique over all the
    other similar math teaching aids that are available.

    You need to "distinguish" your product over everything else that's out there.

    The reason you need to do that is because people will be "looking" for it
    anyway! They'll automatically be comparing. So help them to do it. And by
    doing that you can actively tell them why your product is unique, distinctive,
    better - without being negative and bashing, etc.

    For example... I know math text books give real life examples that illustrate
    the principle being taught in whatever section. Right?

    So - ok, why should I bother to spend $10 on your product?

    Can you explain why? You need to do that. It's not a question of money
    because your product is not expensive. So if it's not a question of money,
    then why would someone not buy, and why should they buy?

    Those are the questions you need to actively address in your copy.

    But do it in a straightforward manner without hype or negativity. If you
    cover those concerns, and actively "engage" your reader (more on that
    in a moment), then you will naturally allow your reader to go through
    this "process" of seeing him/her self arriving at a decision - or "making a
    choice" to get your product.

    Make them feel like they're naturally making a choice, and that choice is
    your product.

    Third paragraph:

    Can you tell anything more about yourself? Are you certified to teach? Have
    you won any awards? Have you taught other subjects? This doesn't need
    to be long, but you just need to help people feel like you know what you're
    doing and can be trusted.

    You know people make buying decisions based on emotions, and then they
    need to justify their decision with logic.

    Remember your primary target audience...

    You need to explain to them the benefits of using your product. What
    emotions or feelings will your product satisfy in them? You're a teacher,
    so you should be able to make a list of possibilities.

    I suggest injecting a testimonial higher up in the copy, perhaps before
    the section about you.

    Also, your testimonials are weak because they just provide a first name
    and that the person is a teacher. If possible, I strongly recommend you
    contact them and ask for a picture. Ask if you can use first and last name,
    city/state/country.

    Guarantee:

    You don't need to impose strong terms on your guarantee. I would assert
    that your current guarantee is hurting you by asking for proof that your
    product didn't work or fulfill the promise. I strongly suggest you remove
    that immediately.

    Your course materials/benefits to your primary audience:

    You need to take every opportunity to let your primary audience know
    how they'll benefit from your product. So to that end...

    You have three examples from a lesson. I would take each one and
    do the following:

    Highlight the appropriate elements and "explain" what the prospect,
    or potential buyer, will get out of it. How will the buyer benefit from
    each part you highlight. You can highlight it and then put small red
    text with a short benefit bullet. Do you understand? The benefit is
    expressed in terms of "emotional fulfillment."

    Have the clickable lesson examples open in a new window. When
    they close it, they'll be right back on the sales letter. I know you
    have a "close" X at the lower right. But what if someone does not
    scroll all the way down and see it? Or, you can put another 'close
    X' button on the top right, as well.

    The layout...

    Remember that not everyone has a high resolution monitor setting. I
    tend to feel your sentences are too long. If it was my letter, I would
    bring the text margins in by about an inch, total.

    Those are some of my thoughts. I hope they will help, and I wish you
    good luck. I think you have a good product.

    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author mkitchen
      Ken I reread you post today (truly amazing stuff) and started working on some things. I had a question about this part though:
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      So you need to cover both bases in your copy. But remember your primary
      audience is people who teach math.

      With that said, your headline seems to be out of sync, and I'll explain why.
      It is not targeted to your primary audience. I understand your point in the
      headline, but it comes across as more of an implied benefit to the primary
      audience rather than directly addressing their concerns.

      The people you're selling to want to know what they will personally gain from
      buying your product. So in that sense the headline misses the mark and therefore
      becomes weaker and diluted.
      I completely get what your saying. Everything I goto describes a benefit for the students, they'll love math, want to do it, have fun... etc. The only things i can think of for the teacher seem very snake oily in their pitch - higher test scores. It seems that the benefits to the teacher are indirectly always through the students... Any thoughts?

      (oh, bu the again and again part will go regardless that does add a taste of unbelievability)
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by mkitchen View Post

        Ken I reread you post today (truly amazing stuff) and started working on some things. I had a question about this part though:

        I completely get what your saying. Everything I goto describes a benefit for the students, they'll love math, want to do it, have fun... etc. The only things i can think of for the teacher seem very snake oily in their pitch - higher test scores. It seems that the benefits to the teacher are indirectly always through the students... Any thoughts?

        (oh, bu the again and again part will go regardless that does add a taste of unbelievability)
        Hey Matt...

        I understand your concern about that.

        There are several perspectives, and you need to discover/use which one
        resonates the most with your primary audience - those who teach math.

        You have professional teachers, those who homeschool their children, and
        possibly parents looking for something to help their children with math - but
        they do "not" homeschool.

        I wanted to go into this last night but did not.

        Your product has an audience. Every product/service has an audience. The
        thing that is so important is addressing the 'correct' audience in sales material
        and then properly targeting the right audience in your marketing.

        I wonder, though - how many professional teachers are actively looking for
        additional teaching aids for which they have to spend money out of their
        own pocket? What do you think?

        I have no solid data, of course. But my guess is very few.

        Given that proposition, who does that leave in your primary audience? Simple
        process of elimination and you know who that is.

        The example you gave in your last post of 'higher test scores' is not hypey or
        cheesey, etc.

        But in order to make it more believable and credible you must be able to provide
        incontrovertible evidence and proof that students who used your material have
        achieved higher test scores.

        If your personal experience bears witness to that, then the only thing you can
        do, in addition to solid testimonials, is to simply state your experience. You should
        do that with some kind of data - numbers, percentage average increase, etc.

        And it won't be hypey at all if it's the truth; however, do not write it using hypey
        expressions. Ex; amazing, incredible, etc. Just be objective about it and state
        the facts.

        Every product has a primary audience, and every audience can derive benefits
        from that product. Those benefits provide emotional fulfillment to the person using
        the product/service, unless absolutely no one ever wants to buy it. If that's the
        case, then something is obviously wrong with the product or wrong with something
        in the process.

        There's no getting around that because it's simply true.

        Your job is to find out what those benefits are to your primary audience.

        You're a teacher, so you have first hand knowledge and experience of the benefits
        your product can provide. Yes?

        Make a list of every single possible 'benefit' that your product can provide to your
        primary target audience. Remember what I just wrote about "who your primary
        audience 'most likely' is."

        Putting them in a larger set, they're all parents and not professional teachers. Would
        you agree with that?

        So, you have just created an entire "new" category of benefits that address the
        concerns, fears, hopes, and aspirations that every parent has for their children.

        Are you a parent? If so, then you know what those are. You are intimately familiar
        with everything you need to know to effectively market this product. You just need
        to extract it from your head.

        Make a list of the benefits (emotional fulfillment) from the standpoint of teaching
        math concepts more effectively; as well as the benefits parents can experience
        from helping their children be more successful academically and in terms of success
        in life.

        In short... there are a ton of benefits in your product.

        - Do not list all the benefits in one long, mind-numbing list.

        - Write about benefits in appropriate sections, delineated by subheadings, as that
        will serve to break-up the benefits and also lend more organization to your sales
        process.

        - You'll need to, or should, address the different components (or roles) of your
        primary audience. They are: parents who homeschool, parents looking to find math
        help for their children, and possibly any professional teachers. The last group will
        be small, in my opinion, but you should not ignore them.

        So there are at least two major sections that need to be addressed separately. So
        you'll include the different benefits in each separate section.

        I forgot to mention something last night.

        As an organization edit and consideration, you should state exactly what age groups
        and grades this material is for earlier in your copy. I believe right now there's mention
        of it somewhere in the middle, and it's seems kind of thrown in there as an afterthought.

        You need to be clear about things like who this material is for, etc. So put that
        somewhere much earlier in your copy. You want to avoid any confusion or irritation
        in your readers by making them wonder (too much or too long) about what age and
        grade groups your product is for.

        I hope that has helped to address your concerns.

        I would tend to think while most professional teachers care, after some years they
        know the deal about teaching 'unpopular' subjects like math, science, etc.

        Who would be inherently more concerned about the success of their students, parents
        in the larger set of both audience categories or professional teachers? I'm not taking
        a shot at professional teachers, by the way.

        But you need to carefully think this through and go with what you believe, or know, to
        be the most accurate conclusions.

        Feel free to ask for further clarifications.

        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author mkitchen
          Ken, you are making my head spin in the best possible way. I started updating the copy of my first 4 paragraphs (I split one into two) based on your suggestions. Would love your thoughts if I'm on the right track if you have time... it will forever evolve as I get more skilled in the craft though.

          Regarding this:
          Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

          I wonder, though - how many professional teachers are actively looking for
          additional teaching aids for which they have to spend money out of their
          own pocket? What do you think?

          I have no solid data, of course. But my guess is very few.
          It is more than people think. In my defined audience of middle school math teachers we are being pushed on the whole to get outside of the old lecture and worksheet mode and make math more accessible. This scares the heck out of a lot of teachers, young and old, who are scrambling to figure out how to fill this void. It is one of the reasons i have the low price point to be sensitive to teacher's finances.

          That being said, i definitely wrote the copy for a teacher. I think the smallest group is parents buying for math curriculum for their middle schooler. Unfortunately I know little about the psyche of a homeschool parent (something i need to do research on). I was currently banking on the fact that if it is popular or made sense to teachers, they would give it a try - but i will have to figure that out.

          Not sure how I could address all three categories going forward - do you think they could all go in this one page? I think it would make sense to have the home page be one pitch then at the top say - are you a homeschool parent or concerned parent which have links to equivalent pages more geared to those sales pitches.

          Also, what makes a better headline - should it be description or a call to action. Basic examples: Engaging math your students will love vs. Get your students interested in math
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Rickfold
    I have skimmed through... haven't really read it... but as I understood is instructions for teachers to teach better math

    and one of your bullet points is
    • Use polygons to make a new font
    well that makes no sense to me. even if I would be a teacher, what use would making a new font be? You need to specify, maybe in paranthesis, what the end result is, like "with this tactic your students will start learning polygons in a few minutes" or whatever
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  • Profile picture of the author mkitchen
    KenThompson - thanks a million! Ironing out the copy was my next endeavor, this will really really help! Thanks!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Easy Cash
    Your page colors look great!

    Some more margins and space between the text would make it easier to read.
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    • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
      Originally Posted by Easy Cash View Post

      Your page colors look great!

      Some more margins and space between the text would make it easier to read.
      Agreed. The page is headed in the right direction. One point I would like to add as mentioned in the quote above...add a little more space. Highlight the KEY points.

      This way someone short on time and patience (most people) can skim through it without reading the whole thing and get the sense of the message like a speed reader.

      It is looking pretty good, I think...

      Question for others: What if he expanded the example pages to the size they become after you click on them and put them on the pages in descending order. That way, visitors wouldn't have to wait on them to open. I know, it sounds cheezy.
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      • Profile picture of the author mkitchen
        Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

        Question for others: What if he expanded the example pages to the size they become after you click on them and put them on the pages in descending order. That way, visitors wouldn't have to wait on them to open. I know, it sounds cheezy.
        I had the pictures load in new windows before and went with the current approach b/c I thought it added a professional polish. Based on what you guys are saying and the javascript's issues with IE6 (which too many teachers apparently still use) I think I will just go back to loading the full thumbnail in a new page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    (Matt: just a note that Ken Thompson gave you one great thorough review/critique, btw.)
    very impressive.)

    Anyway, I would test using the SUBHEAD as the headline.
    _____
    Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Matt,

    I read your updated letter. Yes, I can see the changes you made
    and they are on the right track.

    Please understand that I cannot teach you copywriting in this thread.
    But... I will state a few principles that you can apply.

    1. Paragraphs need to be roughly 4-5 relatively short sentences. You
    have some pretty long ones.

    2. No wasted words or extraneous words. Short and concise. There are
    extenuating circumstances that have everything to do with your audience.
    Your main audience will be teachers, so there's no need to make your
    sentences too short or over-simplistic. But avoid being long-winded in any
    one sentence.

    Break-up the paragraphs after the intro paragraph. They're too long. Find
    a good point to break them up.

    Your third paragraph, next to the video, contains your personal info and it
    should not be there. Look at the subhead for that paragraph. I must
    apologize because in my original post I should have stated the third paragraph
    needs to be a new one. That paragraph will contain your personal information.

    The point is to have a new paragraph with personal info before you start
    talking about the product and what it contains. You need to establish and/or
    reinforce your credibility.

    You can test anything. It may be a good idea to make that letter targeted
    to teachers. Then you can have links at the top calling attention to the
    other two categories - homeschoolers and parents looking for help.

    But you need to be careful about having duplicate content on your site. You
    may cause that situation if you have two sales letters containing mostly
    duplicate content.

    Of course you can always address all three in one letter and that may be
    the preferred route.

    Your headline needs to capture attention, make people stop and read, and
    then compel them to read your letter. It needs to do that first and foremost.

    There are different approaches to writing headlines. I cannot cover them all
    here.

    Basically... capture attention. The headline also serves to identify who you
    are targeting (primary audience), so it serves to filter. One very common
    approach is to give the main benefit your product provides to your market
    or audience.

    The highest paid copywriter in the world advises to hit them on the head
    with the main benefit. So you can do that as well. You need to figure out
    what the main benefit is.

    You can put something just above the headline calling attention to your
    audience; teachers, homeschoolers, parents who want to get help for their
    kids, etc. The format is usually in smaller font and maybe italicized.

    You can also include a subheading directly under the main heading stating
    an additional benefit.

    You can also include some detailed information or data in the headline
    because that will help to draw and fixate attention.

    So, I suggest you revise your letter with everything suggested and give
    it a run in ppc. I think you mentioned that you're using ppc, adwords.

    Try to find something to provide tracking so you can see how long people
    stay on your site, which pages they visit, and how many click on the buy
    button, etc.

    Lastly, I would replace your buy button/link with an 'Add To Cart" link. Do
    a search on Belcher button either at Google or here in the forum. It will
    convert better than what you currently have.

    Do those things and see how it converts. And good luck!

    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author mkitchen
      Ken, I feel like i've held you captive with for all this information. Thank you again for your wealth of knowledge I am indebted to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    I didn't do much more than glance at the letter. Here are
    some suggestions:

    > Break up your paragraphs into shorter ones.

    > Don't use a "hotdog" font for your headline - and make it red,
    blue or black - and use IMPACT or some familiar font like Times,
    Verdana, etc.

    > your pitch needs work - but there's good news because one
    of the greatest copywriters in history wrote a book about improving
    your kid's school performance - the ad headline is:
    "how to turn your child into a classroom wizard"

    PDF of the classic ad included.
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