Dear "Mass Domination Billion-Dollar Annihilation Secret Sniper Avalanche Formula" Gurus...

Definitely with you on point 3 ... I have begun unsubscribing from the lists of some of the big names as they seem to have just gotten greedy and send any old crap.

John

Dude,
I am just waiting for the "Mass Domination Billion-Dollar Annihilation Secret Sniper Avalanche Formula" to come out.

Sounds awesome!! I can't wait to learn how to choose a good domain name, do good keyword research, do good SEO, write good articles – then bookmark and backlink the dickens out of your site(s).

Sign me up for $1997 + $497 per month!!!

And this is why they call me.....


But seriously, you have some excellent points. What I wish more people would "get" is that there is no secret to success, just hard work. It's like anything else in life - the more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it!

Right on Ken!
I too unsubscribed from so many 'guru's' emails for the same reason. Like you say there is nothing new on the net.

I actually only subscribe to one guru, and it's just to see his email and hard sell patterns.

I feel like I have learned all of the solid basics right here on good ol' WF. I have my own formula.

I am going for the slow burn. I have never bought and will never buy a scheme.

Yay...some common sense at last. The trouble is that sadly most folks will ignore because at the end of the day most folks want to believe the dream and as long as there are the "dream sellers" out there then a large percentage of folks will get parted form their first couple of hundred dollars at least......till they wise up.

Stop buying and get off the lists so we don't hear your rants anymore. Simple solution. You put yourself there.

I personally am sick to death of all the guru bashing, product bashing posts. You are drawn to them like moths to lightbulbs and then you get on every list under the sun and buy product after product, expecting to get rich without really working very hard and then ....

ta da drum roll please

when it doesn't happen, you come in here and bitch and whine to everyone else. It's predictable.

One word...

Unsubscribe.

The end.

-Simon

Dont participate if you dont like the game. Tennis shoes are made of rubber, that doesnt make every different brand of them a scam just because the idea of rubber soles has "been done"... people have different takes an flavors, one thing they say may be more enlightening than a whole 500 page book... maybe you should read with more gratitude for the writers intention and not so much skepticism and you will find more value.

Ps . they are only selling you the information you are seeking for.

Hi Ken,

interesting stuff.

As you can see I am new to this environment like yourself.

I have been in the bricks and mortar world as a CEO so perhaps my perspective is coloured by this experience.

Let's face it, whether bricks and mortar or internet based, people are still involved. This means there are good eggs and bad eggs.

I dislike the words "newbie" and "guru" but that's just me.

I think the problem with us greenhorns is that we are looking for something that is easy, that fits perfectly into our immature preconception of what internet marketing really is, and that will require the minimum activity of our grey matter.

You need to have done your own homework and approach each offer with your eyes wide open - we all get to know "the game", but if you are serious about building an internet business - I did use the word business - then you will be looking at the long term and this takes a deal of effort, commitment, focus and self discipline.

OK there are some people who, in my opinion, over do the promotion of the "next best thing" via their list, but we all have a delete or unsubscribe option. If you opt in to something you know what's going to happen.

One of the things that struck me about internet business opportunities, which is both a huge advantage and disadvantage, is they require stuff-all start-up capital and resources, and their immediacy is huge. Therefore to succeed you need to develop a strategy with an associated plan to stick to, plus "nous" and "savvy", in other words street smarts!

Another observation is the lack of risk, with most having 60 day refund periods!!! You don't get this option in the corporate world!!!

So the analogy of a "kid in a candy store" is close, but sometimes we complain because the flavour wasn't what we expected.

My advice to you now you have that out of your system, is to literally "mind your own business" and help it become profitable.

Hope this helps.

on a side note (re: TV commercials) the difference is they "get away with it" because they use the power of suggestion instead of making promises that can't be achieved and telling lies.

For example - a popular aftershave (cologne) advert might feature a guy getting laid in a 5 star hotel after he sprayed some of it on his neck.

There's a true distinction between that power suggestion and that of a guy with a website who claims that his $27 eBook that contains theories which have never been proven will make you RICH regardless of your skills, circumstances or learning style.

The internet is truly a wild-west culture, even today. Doesn't mean all information is crap though. I've bought a couple of products in the last 4 years that really did open my eyes.

But for me personally, that's all they did - open my eyes. I never expected them to transport me to financial freedom or do the work for me. Heck, I didn't even expect to use the system. It's the ideas that stretch the mind, for me, which creates the true freedom.

Interesting belief you have...

My belief is that we live in a world full of abundance and people are spending more money online than ever.

Ugh. give me a break.

You have to take the good with the bad, ya know?

Business is tough. But you still have to build relationships with the good and the bad to make it work.

Good luck.

Im 18 and already i've realised there is no such thing as a secret or a lucky pearl it's all bull****.
Here's a tip better than all the gurus will EVER teach you.
1 - Have a plan
2 - Work your ass off

As long as there are idiots there will be people willing to serve that market of idiots.

Internet Ethics is an Oxymoron.

And that's just the way it is. Do unto others before they do unto you seems to be the IM Creed.

Sad... but look around

45 Million Americans living below the poverty line.

This World is a very messed up place.

Be the best you can be and that's all you can do.

You did made some great points there. However, the strategies gurus offered are for people who are new. They need to to learn information to gain knowledge about Internet Marketing. Their strategies do work if you can do it right. I believe that most people can't follow instructions right, especially people that are new. Information seem to be overwhelmed for them. Thus they simply ignored it. And the results? They failed.

So the best thing you should do now is to learn one thing at a time until you actually understand it. You need to stay focus really. I know that most of you can't do this. Train your mindset. Learn the basics. You will eventually get there. I'm serious.

I'm Adding that to my swipe file, is it ok?

SEems like everyone is hatin' on the gurus these days.

You know...this may be chicken or egg discussion but...

I sell a product aimed at starting an online business - it's targeted that way - but it's my least selling product.

Why?

Well, to highlight - an email I got from one guy considering purchasing. He said "I don't want to start a business - just earn money for me to have a nice life".

To my reply -

Well, if you make enough money to pay your bills and have a nice life, you have a business, whether you think you do or you don't! Taxes, organization, work flow, outsourced workers, managers (even if it's just you), selling a product (even as an affiliate) - sounds like a business to me!

If you treat it like a business, it will reward you - treat it as a hobby, and well, a hobby is what it will be.

Getting back on point - you see these guru's doing the things you highlight in the first post because they sell!

And will continue to sell...for ever and ever.

Perhaps I should redo the sales letter for my product - and drop the word business - and building?

It would probably sell more - but then people would refund because I use the word WORK in the product.

So, as a product seller, what am I to do?

Rob

One thing that really annoys me about the latest IM products to hit the market recently is the REALLY cryptic sales copy that leaves you wondering what the heck it is that you're actually buying into. It can be over 3 pages long, but after reading through the whole thing you still have absolutely no idea what it is, except that it is some type of automated underground system that has never seen daylight before (which is highly improbable, considering that they're usually going for a pittance, typically in the $37 to $77 range). Is it any wonder that the refund rates on these latest products are probably sky high then?

I hear you - but that's much like saying buying lottery tickets would help reduce your stress if you believed 'today is the day' every time you bought one.

But at some point you need a reality check to see whether your strategy is actually moving you forward.

Many people treat unsuccessful IM like bad financial planning - they know they're in debt but they don't want to look at exactly how much - because that makes it more real.

So they know they're causing their situation to get worse - but keep doing things to hurt their progress but hoping it all gets better before they have to deal with it.

I guess for many people this is much like the problems that triggered the financial collapse - people who can't afford something are being told there's an easy way to get what they want and all they have to do is "sign here".

They KNOW they can't afford it and they KNOW it will HAVE to come back and bite them at some point - but they want to believe it's possible and they want to improve their current situation so they let it happen.

Now, there really were bad people lying to them and making false promises in order to convince them to buy - so there are 2 sides to it, however the majority of people know when they can and can't afford something and buying it even when you know you can't afford it yourself (despite what someone is promising you) still makes it your decision.

At the end of the day when you have to tell your family that all the time you've spent and money you've layed out has come to nothing - is "but someone else told me making money was quick and easy if I just paid them $97" really going to cut it?

Life is about deciding what you want and taking responsibility for making it happen - despite other people's attempts to distract you.

The truth of it is - you don't NEED anything from anyone else, so whenever you let them convince you that you do - all you're really doing is handing over some of the power over your results.

That may work out well - or not, but you are the only person who can give someone else any of your control.

Sure, some people just want a little feeling that they're trying to make their situation better and will get enough of that from buying the latest product/ebook that they won't even read it because just paying for it made them feel better.

It's no-one's fault that you don't get the results you want as it's your decision how to spend your time, energy, money and focus.

As long as you feel you can blame other people you're holding yourself hostage to what other people want from you.

I'll beat the dead horse...why not lol?

Everyone that's made a couple dollars online (and I haven't made NEARLY as much as others) simply realize that to get to the level you want to be you have to put the blinders on.

I don't get mad at marketers for marketing. They have a job to do and they do it. The way I see it, no one is being robbed. You might like the copy, but there's no gun to your head making you press the "buy now" button.

Someone said it here before, but I can't remember who: "You have to get out of the buy mentality and start selling online to make money. That's the fundamental secret to online success."

Don't remember the guy, but it was great advice. All my funds are WSO frozen lol...

So finally, after a decade, people are waking up to the fact that you dont make free and east cash online in the main, and you need to do some work. Welcome to reality.

The problem is people want to believe that nonsense.

If I agree with both Ken AND Suzanne, does that mean I'm screwed in the head?

I think perhaps these "methods" bug us because we've looked behind the curtain and see the wizard pulling the levers. Much angst over something is simply redirected disgust with ourselves for falling for the trick for so long before we found out how easy it is to do.

But, as a wise doctor would say: "if it hurts when you do that, then DON'T DO THAT!"
Just unsubscribe if it's bugging you that much. No use wasting time, energy, and emotion getting pissed off about it when you could be putting those 3 valuable things into your own efforts.

After months of hard work and research I'd like to check you with folks if I understand and have boiled down what all the hype basically says.

I think there are three basic models for individuals to make (or try to make) money online. 1. Selling ways to make money online on commission. 2. Creating an information product of your own to sell though Clickbank (or other) which is very similar to model 1 but you keep (nearly) all of the money. Then you also recruit others to sell for you using method 1. and 3. Promoting tangible products for a commission via the likes of Tradedoubler, Shareasale and others.

1 and 2. I'm old enough to remember the days before the internet when newspaper ads would hype sell ways to make money from home. Just "buy the book" the ads would say and learn everything you need to know. When you got the book, guess what it said (and often took 200 pages to say), put an ad in a newspaper and sell a book like this telling people how to make money from home by placing newspaper ads and selling a book like this. Around and around it went. So what has changed? Well in my opinion the internet made it easier and cheaper to peddle this kind of "information" so it's now a very crowded place packed with people basically selling the same thing to each other or to hopeful newbies who are oversold and over hyped. They spend their 97.77 to get the same information that is in every other 97.77 package. Basically create another 97.77 package and sell it. You know it works because you bought one!

3. In this method you promote products that average folks are shopping for online. This may be cameras, golf clubs, insurance, home loans, car accessories or whatever. You need to create a really great site around these products that will somehow intercept online shoppers who will come through your site to the vendor who will then reward you. Your site may also offer information products along with the tangible "How to get a Perfect Golf Swing in 3 Days" next to the latest driver from Ping perhaps.

Now you need to get volume traffic to your site and there appear to be 2 ways to do this. 1. You optimise the site for search engine visibility. This may well take you back to 1. especially if you're a newbie, where you buy "The Totally Ultimate Top Secret Guide to Search Engine Optimisation" for only 97.77 reduced for today only from 849.77! or 2. You advertise (or both). This means maxing out any financial resourses you may have to drive traffic through your site from various forms of advertising (often mainly Google Adwords) on the basis that your income will exceed your expenses. This can otherwise be described as gambling.

Have I basically covered here what internet marketing is?

Malcolm

It is interesting to me that in all the discussion of the ills or otherwise of IM, there is little mention of the actual delivery/content that is sent through.

As with offline marketing, IM isn't an end in itself, if you develop a brand, sell a promise, it will have very little longevity if the brand experience doesn't deliver the promise

So it is no good seeing IM as an end in itself, it is part of a business, that offers a product/service that meets someone else's need provides them with a benefit. IM is then an online method of making the target market aware that the benefit/solution exists and encouraging them to take it.

Without these contexts other components, IM is selling the wind, but we have to be grown up enough to know that all marketing is like this, and makes sure our own business isn't based upon hot air, even if others are

Too bad warrior forum do not allow you to post anyone's name. It's very hard to expose these 'gurus'..

I cannot even begin to tell you how much I love this post!I am also on various lists, & there are quite a few that I'm about to unsubscribe to...I have absolutely no problem with people promoting things, of course, but I'm getting so sick of the hyped-up, make 10 billion dollars a day & a Corvette emails multiple times a say, & nothing of any real value.

If you're going to promote something to me, then I suggest that

A) You make it realistic.

&

B) You actually use my email address to send actual content here & there...something of value.Don't just send me 10 emails a day basically saying 'Here: Buy something from me!' I'm on Travis Sago's mailing list, & any promotion he would make, I would take seriously.Why?Because he sends the most valuable emails ever!He does it every day.I actually look forward to his emails.

He is a shining example of what an email marketer should be.

Right on sister!

I also have unsubscribed a lot lately and have requested 2 refunds. What irritates me is if a guru thinks his program is all its cracked up to be and makes real money, why the necessity of promoting other programs? In my mind it diminishes his credibility. A guru that I admired and have purchased from (good system) emailed me 2 or 3 times a day about other programs. Ridiculous.

You know, there are secrets and there are secrets

The recipe for making an atomic bomb had been well publicized for years and yet to date, only several countries have actually made one. Similarly, how Microsoft and Google started are well known and yet there are still no credidle competitors.

The truth is that often huge teamwork and resources are involved. One term that gurus like to use quite is "If I can do it tha you can do it". This is completely misleading as they often have a big team behind them.

This brings to another often heard saying "there are really no secrets"

I actually disagree with this because there are real secrets. For example, with PPC, nobody will give you the exact campaign that is currently profitable for them. This is what you will have to do by trial and error. It may well turn out that less than 1% of your campaigns will be successful.

Derek

It's important to realize that something that is garbage to a seasoned vet may be invaluable information to a newcomer. You don't come out of the womb knowing how to install Wordpress, research keywords, start a blog, split test a campaign, ect... unless you are Allen Says. Also, when you first get interested in internet marketing, there are no signs that read "Start Here".

They just have to jump in and start with something, endure the information overload and analysis paralysis and find their way. A 17 dollar WSO that tells them how to do keyword research may be the best purchase they've ever made.

The truth does remain that the best purchase you can make is a War Room membership but, unfortunately, sometimes it takes people a little while to figure that out.