IS MLM Back In Style?

16 years ago

Blase,

This is David Frey. It's great to hear from you. You
and I go way back.

Not only am I proponent of MLM, I believe it's one of
the best and fastest ways available today to start a
legitimate home based business.

But you need to pick a solid company that has a product
that resonates with you, that you can fall in love
with. It's hard to successfully sell something that you
don't deeply believe in.

Here's why I believe in multi level marketing.

1. MLM is nothing more than affiliate marketing on
steroids. If you're an internet marketer, you have
probably done some form of affiliate marketing. Multi
level marketing simply has more than levels than a two-
tier affiliate program.

2. Multilevel marketing offers true leverage. You can
benefit from the sales and product usage of people many
levels below you with no effort on your part. You work
hard to create your first level (much like an IM
affiliate program) and then train them to duplicate
your success. With time, you'll be making money from
people that you've never met. That's leverage.

3. MLM companies usually provide very simple marketing
systems. You don't have to master web development,
hosting, domains, autoresponders, video editing,
copywriting etc. like you do in IM. You simply tell
people about your product and teach them to do the same
thing. Very simple.

4. Multilevel marketing is based off of good ole
referral marketing (sharing products and service
recommendations with your friends). Referral marketing
is the world's most effective marketing method. Period.
And that's all MLM really is.

5. A lot of MLM companies go under. This is true. But
I've seen just as many internet marketing products,
services, and companies go down as well. And I've seen
just as many scams in the internet marketing industry
as I have in the MLM industry. (In fact, a LOT more!)

6. And you say that the average person doesn't make
much money in MLM. Uhhh, the average person doesn't
make much money in internet marketing either. I believe
the percentage that make money (or don't make money)
in MLM versus internet marketing is about the same. And
it has nothing to do with it being a scam. It has everything
to do with people's work habits, commitment and drive
to succeed.

7. The only reason a person doesn't like MLM is because
(1) they haven't found a product that truly resonates
with them and (2) you haven't made a lot of money in
MLM. When those two things happen, you'll love it.

One of the businesses that I run is a distributorship
in an MLM company. I've done it for 3 years. My income
this month from that distributorship is about 4 times
what I used to make as a Senior Vice President in a
$500 Million dollar company. And it's PASSIVE
RESIDUAL!. I vacationed nearly this entire month with
my family.

The income from my MLM distributorship allowed me to
spend the entire summer in Costa Rica with my little
family (working only 2 hours a day).

Now you might say, "Yes, but you are a great marketer.
Most people can't duplicate your skills."

The # 1 guy in my MLM company doesn't know squat about
marketing. Nothing. But he is a great networker. That
guy made more last month than I made in an entire year
as a well paid executive in the corporate world (I'm
the # 2 earner in the company).

So, if you pick the right company that has a great
product (i.e. a product that could stand on it's own in
the marketplace WITHOUT the MLM marketing model
attached to it) and the right sponsor (someone who's
been there and done it) and you have the drive and
tenacity to be successful (like you have to have in any
venture that you start), then you can do extremely well
in MLM.

David Frey

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

David makes some very good points.

I am actually involved in several MLM companies but only because they
offer real products with real solutions to problems.

I will never join an MLM program that is nothing more than just get people
to sign up under you with no real product.

As with any other business, it involves 2 basic things.

1. Promotion
2. Building relationships.

You need to run a professional operation or you won't succeed.

Having said that, I'd rather create my own unique products and services
where I don't have to worry about 3000 other people promoting the same
MLM that I am. I'd prefer to have my own products and have other
affiliates promote them.

That's why MLM is not my main business model.

But if you find a good company with a good product that solves a real
problem, you can do fairly well.

That's my personal and experienced opinion on the matter.

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Affiliate Inventor

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

David makes some very good points.

I am actually involved in several MLM companies but only because they
offer real products with real solutions to problems.

I will never join an MLM program that is nothing more than just get people
to sign up under you with no real product.

As with any other business, it involves 2 basic things.

1. Promotion
2. Building relationships.

You need to run a professional operation or you won't succeed.

I think Steve said it well. There are a lot of MLMs that make their money not from the products they sell, but from signup fees from the members they recruit. I don't have any intention to join any MLMs, but if I ever did, it would have to be one that offers quality products and that offers good paying commissions that aren't dependent upon how many people I bring into the company.

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Kevin Riley 16 years ago

Blase

I haven't been involved in any MLM since the early 90s. I got in on this one due to a friend's recommendation. He knows a lot about the people behind it.

I don't look at it as MLM or not. That's just a distribution method. What I liked here is the whole Internet system setup they have. Yes, I'll promote this to others -- because I'm going to use it myself (especially the meeting facility).

MLM has gotten a bad rep over the years, but by itself it is just another marketing channel -- just like Internet marketing. It's the companies that have used it improperly (playing just on the downline building aspect, not on delivering a real product) that have besmirched it. Since I see a good product here, I'm ready to get involved.
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Lance K

16 years ago

David, great to see you here!

For anyone who doesn't know David...GET ON HIS LIST. When you do, you'll hold anyone else whose list you're on to a higher standard.

Hope to see you around a little more often, David.

Originally Posted by David Frey

This is David Frey.

Also, back on topic...I know which MLM David is talking about and it's a genius concept. It's very valuable to a lot of people. And the best target prospects are B2B people who understand the power and leverage of the offer.

Thanks
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4morereferrals

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

David, great to see you here!

For anyone who doesn't know David...GET ON HIS LIST. When you do, you'll hold anyone else whose list you're on to a higher standard.

Hope to see you around a little more often, David.

Also, back on topic...I know which MLM David is talking about and it's a genius concept. It's very valuable to a lot of people. And the best target prospects are B2B people who understand the power and leverage of the offer.

David's the man ...

Glad I came across his site and saw the concept. I couldnt get my CC out fast enough. It was just what my OFFLINE biz needed, and still needs every day - that's what makes it such a brilliant tool/business/vehicle.

It'd sell and be used without the MLM component - In fact I used it in/for my business for quite a while before REALLY trying to affiliate market it.

The first ever B2B MLM that business owners need and want - AND - seem to be willing to BUY :-) Its NOT Ma & Pa in the garage with a shelf full of soap/hope or a miracle juice that cures everything from warts to pancreatic cancer!

Its Online, in demand, drop dead simple - and solves a significant business problem ... at a cost that is far lower than any other alternative. Oh yeah ... the business is < 6 yrs old - not even at momentum phase - but headed there.

Thanks David ...

All the best,

Steve

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Party Plan Pat

16 years ago

Originally Posted by David Frey

Blase,

This is David Frey. It's great to hear from you. You
and I go way back.

Not only am I proponent of MLM, I believe it's one of
the best and fastest ways available today to start a
legitimate home based business.

But you need to pick a solid company that has a product
that resonates with you, that you can fall in love
with. It's hard to successfully sell something that you
don't deeply believe in.

Here's why I believe in multi level marketing.

1. MLM is nothing more than affiliate marketing on
steroids. If you're an internet marketer, you have
probably done some form of affiliate marketing. Multi
level marketing simply has more than levels than a two-
tier affiliate program.

2. Multilevel marketing offers true leverage. You can
benefit from the sales and product usage of people many
levels below you with no effort on your part. You work
hard to create your first level (much like an IM
affiliate program) and then train them to duplicate
your success. With time, you'll be making money from
people that you've never met. That's leverage.

3. MLM companies usually provide very simple marketing
systems. You don't have to master web development,
hosting, domains, autoresponders, video editing,
copywriting etc. like you do in IM. You simply tell
people about your product and teach them to do the same
thing. Very simple.

4. Multilevel marketing is based off of good ole
referral marketing (sharing products and service
recommendations with your friends). Referral marketing
is the world's most effective marketing method. Period.
And that's all MLM really is.

5. A lot of MLM companies go under. This is true. But
I've seen just as many internet marketing products,
services, and companies go down as well. And I've seen
just as many scams in the internet marketing industry
as I have in the MLM industry. (In fact, a LOT more!)

6. And you say that the average person doesn't make
much money in MLM. Uhhh, the average person doesn't
make much money in internet marketing either. I believe
the percentage that make money (or don't make money)
in MLM versus internet marketing is about the same. And
it has nothing to do with it being a scam. It has everything
to do with people's work habits, commitment and drive
to succeed.

7. The only reason a person doesn't like MLM is because
(1) they haven't found a product that truly resonates
with them and (2) you haven't made a lot of money in
MLM. When those two things happen, you'll love it.

One of the businesses that I run is a distributorship
in an MLM company. I've done it for 3 years. My income
this month from that distributorship is about 4 times
what I used to make as a Senior Vice President in a
$500 Million dollar company. And it's PASSIVE
RESIDUAL!. I vacationed nearly this entire month with
my family.

The income from my MLM distributorship allowed me to
spend the entire summer in Costa Rica with my little
family (working only 2 hours a day).

Now you might say, "Yes, but you are a great marketer.
Most people can't duplicate your skills."

The # 1 guy in my MLM company doesn't know squat about
marketing. Nothing. But he is a great networker. That
guy made more last month than I made in an entire year
as a well paid executive in the corporate world (I'm
the # 2 earner in the company).

So, if you pick the right company that has a great
product (i.e. a product that could stand on it's own in
the marketplace WITHOUT the MLM marketing model
attached to it) and the right sponsor (someone who's
been there and done it) and you have the drive and
tenacity to be successful (like you have to have in any
venture that you start), then you can do extremely well
in MLM.

David Frey

Indeed David you are right! I remember I thoroughly enjoyed used your send out card marketing system! I am still hooked on send out cards. I wouldn't say MLM is back in style, it is more like a classical piece be clothing, jewelry, music, always in fashion amid the ebb and flow of trends!

I look at my wardrobe for example and I glad I kept my piece cause they still keep coming back. Besides MLM, direct sales, home parties, these are the things that flourish in so called down economies because poeple need that sense of community that MLM offers!

Back in style It never was out of style!

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Patricia Kagwiria Makhulo
Party Plan Pat
Personally Coached And Mentored By Ann Sieg, The Renegad Network Marketer!
Direct Sales Marketing Consultant

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Blase...

Count me as another proponent of MLM... I've been involved
since 1972 and have earned a very good living from residuals
developed many years ago.

I posted this in another thread... you may find it interesting.
It's a free report... no opt-in... no sales pitch... no back end...
no funnel... just a free report for download...

MLM Myths and Truths

Tsnyder

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Blase

16 years ago

Hi David,

It has been a long time.

I saw that you had a nice long island
vacation. You were there with a few other
marketers weren't you?

I haven't forgotten what you are
doing with send out cards.

I see that you've been on the forum
since 2007, so you must be aware
of the offline marketing rush that is
going on.

SOC, is a perfect fit and would be
another great product for any
local marketer to have.

Are you at the same address and phone number?

Take care,
Blase

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Blase

16 years ago

Kevin,

I had no idea you were in Web Prosperity.

I also had a disclaimer at the beginning of my post.

I was more interested in how things go in and out
of fashion.

MLM was really hot then you didn't hear about it
now I am starting to hear about a number of them
again.

Take care,
Blase

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Blase

16 years ago

Steve,

I agree with everything you said.

There was one thing that David said that I don't
think is totally accurate.

"1. MLM is nothing more than affiliate marketing on
steroids. If you're an internet marketer, you have
probably done some form of affiliate marketing. Multi
level marketing simply has more than levels than a two-
tier affiliate program."

In most cases when you are an affiliate marketer you are focusing more
on selling a product than signing up more affiliates.

In most cases when you are an MLM marketer you are focusing more
on signing up people than selling a product.

Again, I am not saying that's what David does or Web Prosperity, I am saying in general
and based on the many many meetings I've been to the training is "sell the dream," use the product.

Steve, congratulations on a terrific December.

Blase

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Blase

16 years ago

Tsnyder,

Obviously Pre-Paid Legal has done it right.

But, correct me if I am wrong didn't they
have a few major problems along the way?

How did that affect your income?

I think that one of the biggest dangers in
MLM is the model.

You are running your business, doing everything right,
making money, and growing your business.

Then some wing nut that's a distributor in the same MLM
your in does something very stupid or very illegal.

Next thing you know your company is in the news, in court,
and out of business. There goes all of your good honest hard
work.

Even Amway has been to court more than once.

You've made a life long commitment to what you are doing and
to you business. You and David are the kind of sponsors a person
should sign up under if the want to pursue a career in MLM.

Thanks for your post,
Blase

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Blase...

I'm not involved with Pre-Paid Legal. I cited them in the report as
an example of a company who's top earner joined when the company
was more than 20 years old... to debunk the myth that the only
people who make big money in MLM are those who join in the beginning.

Tsnyder

Originally Posted by Blase

Tsnyder,

Obviously Pre-Paid Legal has done it right.

But, correct me if I am wrong didn't they
have a few major problems along the way?

How did that affect your income?

I think that one of the biggest dangers in
MLM is the model.

You are running your business, doing everything right,
making money, and growing your business.

Then some wing nut that's a distributor in the same MLM
your in does something very stupid or very illegal.

Next thing you know your company is in the news, in court,
and out of business. There goes all of your good honest hard
work.

Even Amway has been to court more than once.

You've made a life long commitment to what you are doing and
to you business. You and David are the kind of sponsors a person
should sign up under if the want to pursue a career in MLM.

Thanks for your post,
Blase

Thanks

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Blase

"1. MLM is nothing more than affiliate marketing on
steroids. If you're an internet marketer, you have
probably done some form of affiliate marketing. Multi
level marketing simply has more than levels than a two-
tier affiliate program."

In most cases when you are an affiliate marketer you are focusing more
on selling a product than signing up more affiliates.

In most cases when you are an MLM marketer you are focusing more
on signing up people than selling a product.

I think what you both say is accurate depending on your perspective.

I think the smarter affiliate/info marketers out there do network and recruit. That's what seminars and conferences are for. Some people say networking at the right seminar made all the difference in there business.

Whatever the case is, affiliate marketing, network marketing, MLM, all great things. Thank you internet

btw- is anyone familiar with the MLM program I see on TV infomercials selling Health, beauty products, and books (like "What The Credit Card Companies Don't Want You To Know?") They do infomercials and when people call the hotline it goes directly to a distributor of the company...

I forgot the name, but does anyone have any experience with what im talking about?

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Blase

16 years ago

Masked Marketer,

I agree and I did say "in most cases".:-)

I have a DVR, so I don't watch commercials
sorry I can't help you with that one.

That is one scary mask by the way.

Take care,
Blase

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Blase

Masked Marketer,

I have a DVR, so I don't watch commercials
sorry I can't help you with that one.

Looks like I need to catch up on technology !

And I did find the concept interesting.

When someone orders from an infomercial on TV, the order and payment goes to the MLM distributor. And they have infomercials to get you more distributors in your downline. Sure beats naming friends and family!

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Blase 16 years ago

Masked Marketer,

As far as the DVR is concerned all I can say is
I wish these were around when I had young
children.

When they were young I'd be watching a show
and of course 5 minutes before it's over one
of them would come running in "dad" "dad",
so you miss the ending.

I know TV, for the most part, is a waste of time.
So a DVR makes 1 hour show 40 minutes and 1/2
hour show 17 to 20 minutes, I love it.

I have a very close friend that works in the MLM
industry. He is not in MLM he sells MLM company's
a complete custom designed turnkey recruiting
machine for their business.

They use every form of media available including TV
as a part of the machine. Then the distributor pays
a monthly fee to the MLM to use the so called machine.

The lead generation statistics are staggering!

You can buy leads of different types and qty's at different
price points.

We have lunch once a month and I have sworn to keep my
mouth shut, but I can tell you this guy has never
recruited a single person and makes a fortune from MLM.

Good luck,
Blase
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bgmacaw

16 years ago

Let me inject a more negative view of MLM's. I've been involved with a few of them over the years, including some of the big names that begin with 'A', 'H', 'M' and 'P'. I've found them to be complete and total ripoffs that take advantage of well-meaning, business naive, financially desperate people.

They destroy relationships with friends and business/church/community associates.

They cause marital strife and conflict and even divorce.

They're more conducive to developing crushing debt and financial problems than providing an income, much less financial freedom level income.

They rarely sell worthwhile products and even when they're worthwhile they're dreadfully overpriced as compared to competing products.

They make unrealistic promises as to income and potential.

New recruits are typically encouraged to "fake it until the make it" to sell the opportunity.

The business model is centered around taking advantage of people, "churn and burn" recruits.

If anyone asks me if they should get involved in a MLM I paraphrase Marty the blackjack dealer from Vegas Vacation: "Here's an idea: Why don't you give me half the money your were gonna spend on joining a MLM, then we'll go out back, I'll kick you in the nuts, and we'll call it a day!"

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Melody

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Let me inject a more negative view of MLM's. I've been involved with a few of them over the years, including some of the big names that begin with 'A', 'H', 'M' and 'P'. I've found them to be complete and total ripoffs that take advantage of well-meaning, business naive, financially desperate people.

They destroy relationships with friends and business/church/community associates.

They cause marital strife and conflict and even divorce.

They're more conducive to developing crushing debt and financial problems than providing an income, much less financial freedom level income.

They rarely sell worthwhile products and even when they're worthwhile they're dreadfully overpriced as compared to competing products.

They make unrealistic promises as to income and potential.

New recruits are typically encouraged to "fake it until the make it" to sell the opportunity.

The business model is centered around taking advantage of people, "churn and burn" recruits.

If anyone asks me if they should get involved in a MLM I paraphrase Marty the blackjack dealer from Vegas Vacation: "Here's an idea: Why don't you give me half the money your were gonna spend on joining a MLM, then we'll go out back, I'll kick you in the nuts, and we'll call it a day!"

Wow - we have definitely had very, very different experiences in MLM!!

Seriously - any company that sells the opportunity over the product is just barely operating legally.

I have never been involved with a company unless I personally used and could endorse the products or services, and with the exception of one company - my overall experience has been very positive.

Again - MLM is just a way of doing business - you cannot paint the entire industry black based on a few companies any more than you can say all affiliate programs are bad because you spent money on PPC and didn't make any sales!

Melody

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Blase

I have a very close friend that works in the MLM
industry. He is not in MLM he sells MLM company's
a complete custom designed turnkey recruiting
machine for their business.

Lead gen business will never go out of style!

Do you happen to know of any good MLM/network marketing companies you could recommend or point me in a good direction? Also, what about purchasing leads for MLM/ home business opps? You can pm if you wish,

Thanks Blase

[/quote]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Let me inject a more negative view of MLM's.

They destroy relationships with friends and business/church/community associates.

They cause marital strife and conflict and even divorce.

They're more conducive to developing crushing debt and financial problems than providing an income, much less financial freedom level income.

They make unrealistic promises as to income and potential.

New recruits are typically encouraged to "fake it until the make it" to sell the opportunity.

The business model is centered around taking advantage of people, "churn and burn" recruits.

what you say above, is actually in a lot of "IM" and business in general. MLM isn't the only business model that destroys families, ect...

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fred67 16 years ago

MLM always thrives in times of recession. Late '80's saw a massive surge in really good MLM programmes. Had the technology we have today been around then we'd have seen a very different world. The sort of world that Richard Branson and Bill Gates are trying to build today.

To all of the MLM nay-sayers, take a look into your own business operations mirror. You'll find that one way or another you're using the MLM concept.

'JV'ers are particularly critical, but they, (above all others) use the MLM concept more than any other marketing stratedgy known to man. They just hate the thought that 'you' realise it, so they attack it whenever they can.

No. At present I'm not involved with any MLM programme, but maybe I should EH?

Pete.
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- fred67 16 years ago
  
  Does anyone know of any good fairly fresh MLM opportunities here in the UK??
  
  Thanks in anticipation - Pete.
  
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- tonythomas Banned 16 years ago
  
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  David Frey 16 years ago
  
  Blase,
  
  Here is one the things that I love most about network marketing.
  
  If you don't help people to become successful, then you'll never
  make a dime.
  
  MLM is about helping others become successful, both financially
  and as a person.
  
  When you see all these big product launches in the IM industry
  do you really think that these guys care about whether you're
  successful using their product?
  
  __________________________________________________ ______
  
  Disclaimer: Most of these guys are my personal friends so I might
  be stepping on my toes here.
  __________________________________________________ _______
  
  No. They care about how much money they made on the launch.
  
  Their success is NOT tied to the success of their customers using
  their product or service.
  
  Now, I'm not saying that is wrong, but I AM SAYING THERE IS A
  BETTER WAY.
  
  The home based IM business model is exactly opposite of network marketing.
  
  In Network Marketing, to make a lot of money, you HAVE to help
  others become successful too. If you don't, you don't make money.
  
  It's the fairest and most ethical form of profiteering there is.
  
  And in another post in this thread, someone said that MLM is just
  about "selling the dream."
  
  My answer to that is...what business opportunity is not about selling
  the dream?
  
  IM is the biggest "seller of the dream" there is!!!!
  
  In IM you'll see people making the biggest and most outlandish income
  claims. (i.e. I make $100,000 a day and you can too.) And yes, the FTC
  calls that an "implied" income claim.
  
  Talk about "selling the dream." IM'ers take it to the extreme.
  
  You won't see that in any legitimate MLM because the FTC forbids it.
  (and I wish they would come down on the IM industry as well and
  clean it up a bit.)
  
  Hope this helps.
  
  David Frey
  
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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Let me inject a more negative view of MLM's. I've been involved with a few of them over the years, including some of the big names that begin with 'A', 'H', 'M' and 'P'. I've found them to be complete and total ripoffs that take advantage of well-meaning, business naive, financially desperate people.

They destroy relationships with friends and business/church/community associates.

They cause marital strife and conflict and even divorce.

They're more conducive to developing crushing debt and financial problems than providing an income, much less financial freedom level income.

They rarely sell worthwhile products and even when they're worthwhile they're dreadfully overpriced as compared to competing products.

They make unrealistic promises as to income and potential.

New recruits are typically encouraged to "fake it until the make it" to sell the opportunity.

The business model is centered around taking advantage of people, "churn and burn" recruits.

If anyone asks me if they should get involved in a MLM I paraphrase Marty the blackjack dealer from Vegas Vacation: "Here's an idea: Why don't you give me half the money your were gonna spend on joining a MLM, then we'll go out back, I'll kick you in the nuts, and we'll call it a day!"

I've never seen an MLM company do, or encourage, the things you posted.
I have seen plenty of people do them... sounds to me like you got involved
with the wrong people. You should have chosen more wisely.

Tsnyder

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bgmacaw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

I've never seen an MLM company do, or encourage, the things you posted.

You must not be looking very close.

MLM Survivor
Merchants of Deception

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myob

16 years ago

Has MLM really ever gone out of "style"? The concept of MLM is a legitimate business marketing model and is in fact taught in most business colleges. I have been involved in a major nutritional and health MLM company for over 22 years. It has given me a lifestyle that would have been unattainable in any other business or profession. The residual income has allowed me to make investments, and even to start several successful online businesses that required many months of capital infusion to get off the ground. It seems that the MLM failures are making the most noise, while the rest of us are just quietly bringing in the six-figure monthly residual incomes.

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bgmacaw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Has MLM really ever gone out of "style"? The concept of MLM is a legitimate business marketing model and is in fact taught in most business colleges. I have been involved in a major nutritional and health MLM company for over 22 years. It has given me a lifestyle that would have been unattainable in any other business or profession. The residual income has allowed me to make investments, and even to start several successful online businesses that required many months of capital infusion. It seems that the MLM failures are making the most noise, while the rest of us are just quietly bringing in the six-figure monthly residual incomes.

Same tired old BS I heard 30 years ago when somebody tried to get me in Amway. And again a few years later with Herbalife and Primerica. They all have this same spiel, "legitimate business model", "6 figure residual income", sell the lifestyle and, if a prospect is skeptical, they or the people who told them about the significant problems in the MLM business model are failures or losers.

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myob

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Same tired old BS I heard 30 years ago when somebody tried to get me in Amway. And again a few years later with Herbalife and Primerica. They all have this same spiel, "legitimate business model", "6 figure residual income", sell the lifestyle and, if a prospect is skeptical, they or the people who told them about the significant problems in the MLM business model are failures or losers.

Yep, that's pretty much the same spiel I have been using for 22 years.
You lost 3 times - Amway, Herbalife, Primerica. Next ...

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bgmacaw 16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Yep, that's pretty much the same spiel I have been using for 22 years.
You lost 3 times - Amway, Herbalife, Primerica. Next ...

Yes, I lost out on being ripped off by folks like you 3 times. I'm so sad I didn't fork over my hard earned money for membership kits, overpriced and inferior products that legitimate consumers would never buy and useless and very expensive business building tools and conferences so that someone like you could enjoy a "6 figure residual income" at my expense.

Maybe you're different but the people I've seen involved in MLM's, especially those at higher levels, are two-faced and greedy people who remind me of this

Henry Rollins song

.
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fred67

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Has MLM really ever gone out of "style"? It seems that the MLM failures are making the most noise, while the rest of us are just quietly bringing in the six-figure monthly residual incomes.

That just about hits the nail on the head. Especially through this thread.

Well said. Long may you prosper :-)

Pete.

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HervinBalfour

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Let me inject a more negative view of MLM's. I've been involved with a few of them over the years, including some of the big names that begin with 'A', 'H', 'M' and 'P'. I've found them to be complete and total ripoffs that take advantage of well-meaning, business naive, financially desperate people.

They destroy relationships with friends and business/church/community associates.

They cause marital strife and conflict and even divorce.

They're more conducive to developing crushing debt and financial problems than providing an income, much less financial freedom level income.

They rarely sell worthwhile products and even when they're worthwhile they're dreadfully overpriced as compared to competing products.

They make unrealistic promises as to income and potential.

New recruits are typically encouraged to "fake it until the make it" to sell the opportunity.

The business model is centered around taking advantage of people, "churn and burn" recruits.

If anyone asks me if they should get involved in a MLM I paraphrase Marty the blackjack dealer from Vegas Vacation: "Here's an idea: Why don't you give me half the money your were gonna spend on joining a MLM, then we'll go out back, I'll kick you in the nuts, and we'll call it a day!"

That's funny. That has never been my experience in MLM. I am a member of an MLM/Network Marketing Company that also begins with an "A" and if anything they have been highly supportive of my goals and helped me move up rather quickly.

The only people who make complaints such as the ones you made about MLM are usually people who 1) had a weak work ethic, 2) weren't successful in the company and are transferring blame to the company/product instead of themselves and 3) didn't follow the "blueprint" for success as outlined by the company meaning DUPLICATE don't INNOVATE.

Now, my ex-girlfriend used to complain constantly about the hours I spent away from her and the lack of money I was bringing in. One day I got a comission check for $15 and she hit the roof! In fact, she almost left me until.......

A HUGE commission check appeared in my mailbox and we both were gasping for air out of excitement then she was a believer. We must have jumped around the house for 30 minutes. Rumplestilskin didn't have jack on us that day.

For me, I got so sick and tired of not being successful, people telling me I was involved in a scam and blah blah blah that I went into overdrive and stopped being lazy, scared of people saying no and I just freaking did it.

When people start DOING THE WORK results will appear and the problems you listed don't/won't occur.

I agree that some companies offer products that are plain ol' bs. I don't push lotions, potions, pills and herbs. I chose a company and a product that provides something people need and feel they can't be without. I have also heard that some companies make financial promises that aren't true. However I can honestly say that I am blessed to not have experienced that in any way, shape form or fashion.

But what I can say is that most people who scream scam or bash MLM's didn't do what they were supposed to do to make it work. If I join a company and within that company there are people hitting the highest pay levels in the company and I didn't hit those levels maybe I would have to look at myself in the mirror and ask myself if I am the problem because obviously that system is working for someone else.

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bgmacaw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HervinBalfour

The only people who make complaints such as the ones you made about MLM are usually people who 1) had a weak work ethic, 2) weren't successful in the company and are transferring blame to the company/product instead of themselves and 3) didn't follow the "blueprint" for success as outlined by the company meaning DUPLICATE don't INNOVATE.

IE, blame the person who's been lied to and ripped off, not the one who tricked them. A tactic any decent con artist or cult guru knows quite well.

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HervinBalfour 16 years ago

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

IE, blame the person who's been lied to and ripped off, not the one who tricked them. A tactic any decent con artist or cult guru knows quite well.

Yeah, I'm sure you just busted your behind to be successful in your company. :rolleyes:

Funny, you say that it's a "tactic" when 99% of the people who scream that scam bs didnt do jack to advance their business. They sat around and expected others to make them successful. I realized early on in the game that success isn't something born outside of yourself.

What was your work ethic? Did you bust your ass to become successful or did you give up at the first signs of road blocks? I made a two-five year committment to my company what was yours? Did you duplicate what you were taught or did you deviate and do your own thing? Were you expecting to get 5-figure checks in a few months or did you go in understanding that residual income is not get rich quick? Did you follow the advice and coaching of your SUCCESSFUL upline leaders or did you blame them and the company for your lack of success?

See if you didn't bust your ass and didn't have the desire or passion to build your business then I don't really want to here a damn thing from anyone about MLM being a scam. I read articles all the time online about my company being a scam but I laugh because I'm looking at my upline leader who is making six-figures a month. And it shows. But he busted his butt to get to where he is.

So I guess I'm a part of the "guru cult" that you were referring to but I know one thing. I'm doing very well in my MLM opportunity. But I guess I'm being scammed.

It's always the individuals who did nothing or who were kicked out of their company who swear up and down MLM is a scam.
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- HervinBalfour 16 years ago
  
  Someone mentioned that people just sign up for a company because a friend brought them to a meeting or house meeting. And I think it's safe to assume that most of us who joined a network marketing company didn't do any research on the company when we joined. We were excited by the presenter and we jumped in head first.
  
  But I also believe in stability. No one could get me to join a new start up company in pre-launch because of what is happening in MLM/Network marketing. I.e., Investers who have NO experience in the industry who are looking to make a quick buck so they start up a company.
  
  These individuals know they aren't going to be around for the long haul and so they close their doors after 5-7 years after they've made money off of their reps. Then they wash, rince and repeat.
  
  I joined my company because of their history (they've been around 16 years), personally knowing other members of the company who have had GREAT success and the product and compensation plan were the icing on the cake.
  
  Again, I know that there are scammers out there but word gets around in this industry. If a company has been holding it down successfully for over a decade I doubt very seriously that the problem would be with the company.
  
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Melody

16 years ago

MLM never went out of style - as mentioned previously it's just a distribution method - but it also taught me the best lesson I EVER learned in business: don't touch anything that doesn't give you RESIDUAL INCOME!!

I am also looking at WP right now - it's been on my 'check it out' list since before the holidays - interesting to see it pop up here.

MLM is just a business strategy and as such - there are companies that do it well - and there are companies that royally screw it up....kind of like affiliate marketing - but the profit potential with a well run and managed MLM are usually far greater than with the average affiliate program.

Melody

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tranquility

16 years ago

I'm a distributor for a candle MLM business. I only do it part-time, but I really love it. The products are top-notch, fitting in nicely with today's "green" movement as they're 100% vegetable wax, and practically sell themselves - and believe me, I'm NO salesman!

The website in my sig is one I'm developing to promote that business, but I'm approaching it differently. I'm not building the site to specifically promote the MLM, but I'm building it to help anyone interested in a home candle business, whether they make their own candles or buy wholesale. That way I can monetize it in other ways as well, and my business isn't tied to that company should something happen to them (which I don't foresee, they're very strong and debt-free).

I'm not making a large income yet because I don't work it that way. But I enjoy it just the same and love the products.

I think if you truly enjoy and use the products (and there MUST be products or it's just a pyramid scheme) then MLM is a great way to build a business.

Just my .02.

Debbie

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Mark Kaye

16 years ago

I think MLM is hands down the best way to market and promote a business.

If done properly you can earn a bundle. If you build and support a strong downline of individuals then you also have the ability to increase your income while decreasing your workload.

The problem most people run into is that they recruit customers for the product not the opportunity. If you recruit customers of the product then you will have a nice steady income, but it will not grow unless you continually grow your customer base.

If you can find and recruit customers for the opportunity your MLM provides then you will grow your income exponentially!

Easier said then done...I know.

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bgmacaw 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Kaye

The problem most people run into is that they recruit customers for the product not the opportunity.

I understand that there's this guy in New York that is really good at recruiting people for an opportunities like this and he's out of work right now. His name is Bernard Madoff. Maybe you should get him in your downline.
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valerieSONORA

16 years ago

I have heard of some MLM horror stories which make me stay far away. But to each his or her own.

But I know there are good opportunities out there. You just have to find the right ones for you and watch out for the shady ones. I guess some shady companies can cast a bad light on MLM in general.

Like the "opportunities" which have no real product or service but is just basically a pyramid where only the ones on top get rich at the expense of everyone at the bottom. I really don't know how they can even operate legally where you just sell nothing but the same "opportunity" you were sold.

But there are companies out there that do offer real products and real services that are nothing like the shady companies.

I guess just do your due diligence as always.

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cypherslock

16 years ago

MLM is no a bad system. IF one puts in the work and BELIEVES IN and USES the product. If you use the product and love it, you will be able to find others that do the same. It is from those that you can begin to build your network. Customers make the best sales people. And frankly anyone that buys the "instant wealth" promise that the more shady companies espouse DESERVES to have their ass handed to them.

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Bakai

16 years ago

I think MLM may be making a comeback, especially with those new amway commercials advising viewers to seek out an independent sales rep. Plus people are now more desparate than ever to make extra money.

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single287

Banned 16 years ago

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

It seems that the MLM failures are making the most noise,

it always seems to be that way. I happen to know many successful people in Amway which have only been doing it for 5-10 years and have already replaced a high 6 figure income from there job...

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Same tired old BS I heard 30 years ago when somebody tried to get me in Amway. And again a few years later with Herbalife and Primerica.

Its not for everyone. You sound like a failure anyway

Originally Posted by dennishardy

It all comes down to the products....quality products that people want and need.

I wouldn't consider being a part of an organization that stressed selling the business opportunity over the product.

Dennis

The system is just as important as the product. No system, no duplication, replication, ect...

Originally Posted by valerieSONORA

I have heard of some MLM horror stories which make me stay far away. But to each his or her own.

There are plenty of horror stories in business and that includes "IM" too.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

No income model has broken more hearts than mlm and the recruiting people stuff.

FYI:

99% of people involved with mlm never make any money!

If there ever was a plan built to take advantage of lazyness and greed mlm is it.

Ps. The owners of the programs are laughing all the way to the bank.

Conclusion: If you want success - stay away from MLM.

TL

Ps. Please acknowledge you've been warned.

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MaskedMarketer 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If there ever was a plan built to take advantage of lazyness and greed mlm is it.

Ps. The owners of the programs are laughing all the way to the bank.

Not too far off the "IM" crowd either...
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- myob 16 years ago
  
  MLM, just as in any business, requires a particular mindset. Those who don't truly understand this mindset label it as for the "lazy" or "greedy". But those who are successful in any field whether in sales, MLM, IM, or other businesses achieved their level of success because they are ambitious, goal oriented, motivated, and driven. This all can be learned, and you must change or you will never achieve your full potential.
  
  I surround myself with people who are much more successful than I am. It is really true if you set for yourself lofty dreams and goals, and surround yourself with people of similar aspirations, the opportunities will come to achieve those goals. For me, it came as MLM. You can never achieve success by listening to failures and losers. If you want to succeed, listen to the ones who have achieved the level of success you want.
  
  The most successful people in MLM, or in any business, have very similar traits, mindsets, and habits. And you know what? They ALL have experienced failure and hardship - bar none. If you fail, get back up and try again; don't wallow in failure, jaded people and self-pity. There is great opportunity in MLM. Carpe diem. Sieze the day, and prepare for success. It works for me, and there are so many others who are looking for opportunity. There is only one answer to those who refuse my MLM offer ... You lose. Next?
  
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  bgmacaw 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by myob
  
  MLM, just as in any business, requires a particular mindset.
  
  Everybody has different experiences but my experiences with particular mindset of MLM people, especially some higher ups in Amway and Primerica, has been a lot like that Henry Rollins song I posted. Just Google on Henry Rollins Liar Lyrics if you can stand to listen to him (an acquired taste to be certain). My take is that the "MLM mindset" abuses personal relationships, which is also a problem I have with some IM styles as well. I don't believe that you have to abuse people, give them false hopes and lie to them to be successful.
  
  Originally Posted by myob
  
  There is only one answer to those who refuse my MLM offer ... You lose. Next?
  
  And we wonder why MLM's get the rep for being cultish.
  
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4morereferrals

16 years ago

Hello Kettle ... Meet POT.

Care to post any stats on IM? There's more "little" scams happening in this forum daily than Ive seen in 24 yrs of B2B business.

as an example
"I sincerely want to GIVE you this information that will help you greatly in your IM business efforts" ... Yeah right - where's the disclaimer that the PDF is loaded with hundreds of your affiliate links to products and stuff that are PURE CRAP? Thanks for the HELP.
or ....

"I want to GIVE you my magazine on IM - first issue free along with this killer $1700 manuscript that rocked the IM world 2 yrs ago ... all you have to do is pay for shipping of $7.99 .... AND agree to let me hit your credit card - likely 4 or 5 times before you realize what Ive done, and have you fight with the CC or my processor for your 3 or 4 months of $39.95 I keep debiting- back if you want a refund. I'll ROB you of hrs of your valuable time trying to recoup the 4 hits I took on your card - and likely frustrate you to the point you just shine it and walk away cuz its no longer worth the hassle to try and get your money back!"

Yessssir - that's an ethical model ...

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

No income model has broken more hearts than mlm and the recruiting people stuff.

FYI:

99% of people involved with mlm never make any money!

If there ever was a plan built to take advantage of lazyness and greed mlm is it.

Ps. The owners of the programs are laughing all the way to the bank.

Conclusion: If you want success - stay away from MLM.

TL

Ps. Please acknowledge you've been warned.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Hello Kettle ... Meet POT.

Care to post any stats on IM? There's more "little" scams happening in this forum daily than Ive seen in 24 yrs of B2B business.

as an example
"I sincerely want to GIVE you this information that will help you greatly in your IM business efforts" ... Yeah right - where's the disclaimer that the PDF is loaded with hundreds of your affiliate links to products and stuff that are PURE CRAP? Thanks for the HELP.
or ....

"I want to GIVE you my magazine on IM - first issue free along with this killer $1700 manuscript that rocked the IM world 2 yrs ago ... all you have to do is pay for shipping of $7.99 .... AND agree to let me hit your credit card - likely 4 or 5 times before you realize what Ive done, and have you fight with the CC or my processor for your 3 or 4 months of $39.95 I keep debiting- back if you want a refund. I'll ROB you of hrs of your valuable time trying to recoup the 4 hits I took on your card - and likely frustrate you to the point you just shine it and walk away cuz its no longer worth the hassle to try and get your money back!"

Yessssir - that's an ethical model ...

Here's the one stat you and anyone else interested in mlm should be aware of...

- MLM can not be fixed.

- Only 1 per 1,000 people (if that) make any money with mlm and 90% of them are the owners of the program that set the scam in motion in the first place.

Meanwhile... ( making money with a real online business is a very simple )

If a person can...

- Find a decent selling product/service
- Get prospects to look at that offer
- Get enough prospects to spend money

It's a license to print money.

None of the above for a real online business is hard to do.

It just takes a bit of trial on error. ( very inexpensive also )

- And it helps if you operate outside the "how to make money" market.

Hope This Helps!!!

TL

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bio prez

16 years ago

mlm is only good if you get in the top 1% of affiliates and can grow an active downline very quickly....its not easy and that is why 99% of affilates in MLM's fail

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bio prez

mlm is only good if you get in the top 1% of affiliates and can grow an active downline very quickly....its not easy and that is why 99% of affilates in MLM's fail

a lot people fail because they want instant gratification

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David Frey

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bio prez

mlm is only good if you get in the top 1% of affiliates and can grow an active downline very quickly....its not easy and that is why 99% of affilates in MLM's fail

This is a ridiculous statement.

Over 6,000 people came into my company before me, yet I'm the # 2 money earner.

I'm one of the guys at the top that you're talking about.

I spend 50% of my days helping people become successful.

I DO NOT sell tools. I take phone calls from people and talk to them.

Ask how many of the top 10 IM gurus if they've spent half their day
on the phone helping the "little guys" who bought their product or
service.

In fact, I used to be one of them. 2 years ago, you couldn't touch
me. You would have to go through 2 assistants to get to me.

Today, every one of the people that I sponsor and many others who
are in my organization have my personal cell phone number and they
know they can call me any time for help.

Listen, the bottom line is, it doesn't matter what biz opp you get into,
infomercial, mlm, internet marketing, franchise etc. you have to work.

And most people aren't prepared to put in the work to become successful.

That's the bottom line.

Are some MLM's scams. Yes.
Are some franchises scams. Yes.
Are some IM opportunities scams. Yes
Are some infomercial opportunities scams. Yes.

But are there some valid, realistic, ethical and wonderful MLM's, franchises,
IM opportunities, and infomercial opportunities, Yes, Yes, Yes.

Again, if you're going to get into an MLM, find one with a product that can
stand on its own in the marketplace and it's a product that you're in love with.
Where there is a high demand for the product, where you can get legitimate
support, where the comp plan rewards long term workers, and a company that's
been in business for several years.

Then work your butt off like there's no tomorrow!

If you do, you too can live a prosperous lifestyle by doing what you want,
when you want, where you want, how you want and with whom you want.

And if you do not decide to do MLM, make sure you create or promote a
business that generates true "residual, passive income!"

That was a hard lesson for me to learn.

It was only when I began to funnel all my business transactions into a business
that created residual, passive income when I became financially free.

All the best.

David Frey

P.S. You can follow me on Twitter .com / David_Frey

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Katherine Wheel

16 years ago

A good MLM opp. has a good product YOU like, a decent renumeration package, and preferably, good training and support.

Here in UK, I think we do it differently than in US, and people don't spend fortunes on buying leads and other stuff. Which is why, perhaps, all the stuff I've read about finding new ways to recruit people is coming from the west side of the pond.

The thing I want from MLM (or network marketing) is a residual income. To get that, I need to bring people into the business. I DO NOT WANT to be pursuing my family and friends to persuade them in. Seems to me the smart people are using the internet to find and 'qualify' prospects.

In a good company, you only need a handful of good recruits to build a downline. After that, you carry on selling your products and devote yourself to supporting the good people in your downline. That way, you can be growing your business working with people you like, times to suit you, even when you may have gotten old and tired of sitting in front of the computer or otherwise seeking prospects.

Warren Buffet bought a well-known network marketing company last year. Why did he buy this at the start of a recession?

For the guy at the top, it is fabulous - other people do the leg-work, the marketing, selling etc. The higher people get in the company, the better it is. A good MLM company is debt-free for all these reasons.

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cypherslock

16 years ago

That's pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell. It is not a SCAM. And certainly is not the fault of the company if you can't do it. Just like anything else it is not for everyone. And you are right, have a funded proposal that pays for your marketing, focus on the product FIRST, and after a while you will see that the people who bought and USE the product, will become an asset to your organization. You want to build a sales organization from customers.

Originally Posted by Katherine Wheel

A good MLM opp. has a good product YOU like, a decent renumeration package, and preferably, good training and support.

Here in UK, I think we do it differently than in US, and people don't spend fortunes on buying leads and other stuff. Which is why, perhaps, all the stuff I've read about finding new ways to recruit people is coming from the west side of the pond.

The thing I want from MLM (or network marketing) is a residual income. To get that, I need to bring people into the business. I DO NOT WANT to be pursuing my family and friends to persuade them in. Seems to me the smart people are using the internet to find and 'qualify' prospects.

In a good company, you only need a handful of good recruits to build a downline. After that, you carry on selling your products and devote yourself to supporting the good people in your downline. That way, you can be growing your business working with people you like, times to suit you, even when you may have gotten old and tired of sitting in front of the computer or otherwise seeking prospects.

Warren Buffet bought a well-known network marketing company last year. Why did he buy this at the start of a recession?

For the guy at the top, it is fabulous - other people do the leg-work, the marketing, selling etc. The higher people get in the company, the better it is. A good MLM company is debt-free for all these reasons.

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tonythomas

Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

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MaskedMarketer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by David Frey

Again, if you're going to get into an MLM, find one with a product that can
stand on its own in the marketplace and it's a product that you're in love with.
Where there is a high demand for the product, where you can get legitimate
support, where the comp plan rewards long term workers, and a company that's
been in business for several years.

Good point.

and a lot of people fail because they do not do their due dilligence on the company they want to sign up with.

Some people just sign up because a friend brought them to a meeting.

You should have a standalone product with good commissions

You need a proven company- with a proven SYSTEM

You should be passionate about the product and believe in it

You should look at the leadership of the company and person you join

Obviously more than that, but people don't do there due dilligence and then its the MLM companies fault.

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cypherslock

16 years ago

Tony, what are you in (if anything)?

[ 1 ] Thanks
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David Frey 16 years ago

Tony, you're absolutely right.

Everyone comes to their own opinions through
their own personal experiences or the (mis)information
from others.

David Frey

P.S. Before I experienced the residual income that MLM
generates, I wouldn't touch network marketing with a 10
foot pole. I was one of those MLM-ophobes. I just didn't
understand it.

In fact, this is true. I was generating $10K a month in a
network marketing company just promoting the product
(because I loved it and it worked so well for me),
before I ever decided to become a real network marketer
and create a business out of it.
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- willies 16 years ago
  
  MLM is a great way to make money if you really know the ropes.
  
  I read about somebody who lots of money from MLM and I believe it is one of the fastest ways of making huge money on the internet, especially, like I said, if you know the ropes.
  
  One important to note is that you should join a fast moving team. This way, you can benefit from the spillover effect of your uplines. However, this is not to encourage laziness because you will make money for everyone you introduce into the program.
  
  I believe if you join a program that has no real products or services to offer, you are probably joining a matrix program which eventually may crumble.
  
  All in all, it is still a great way of making money, even though it seems a little bit outdated.
  
  Thanks
  
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Good luck, new mlm'ers!

When you don't make any money, please remember that you've been warned.

TL

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cypherslock

16 years ago

TL is it possible to say something positive? You don't agree with this or that model, that's fine. But stop trying to tear it down. It is the same as those threads we've seen that say article marketing sucks or CPA or PPC sucks. They all WORK for the RIGHT person.

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1 reply

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by cypherslock

TL is it possible to say something positive? You don't agree with this or that model, that's fine. But stop trying to tear it down. It is the same as those threads we've seen that say article marketing sucks or CPA or PPC sucks. They all WORK for the RIGHT person.

Why should I when I sincerely believe it won't help vast majority of people who get involved with it?

Article marketing, cpa and ppc do work if applied right and are simply methods of generating traffic.

But mlm is an income model that does not work for too many people.

When you look back at these times and all the people that never made any money online - 99% of them will be mlm'ers.

This is the same advice I's give to a family member or a friend.

Anyone reading this, please acknowledge that you have been warned.

TL

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bannerdemers

16 years ago

For what it's worth.
I too have been burned by mlms. Even after researching as fully as I could. I am doing ok with one right now, but there is actually a product and what I consider a good deal to the consumer. I won't tell my friends and family or hold seminars, but am just listing the product for sale on cl and selling and even recruiting. I joined clickbank and tried affiliating digital product and got nowhere, so I think mlm does ok if you im.

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fred67

16 years ago

For those who are absolutely convinced that MLM is just a scam - take a look at the business you're in - the business you work for even. Every business on the planet 'depends' on referrals for new business - If a business doesn't expand, it dies - FACT!

Many businesses pay good money to advertise said business - ethical business building - and the cost of the advertising is naturally passed 'forward' to the end customer - That's OK then?

Internet marketers usually PAY for leads one way or another - either with their 'time' - or with their hard cash for PPC leads etc - the cost is passed 'forward' to their customers - That's OK then?

In MLM there is usually no determined advertising budget -WHAT??? - No, in MLM the advertising budget is 'given' to the end user who likes the product and recommends others to buy it as well - Simple, EH?

In most marketing concepts the end user is 'paying' for the promotion of the products they buy. With MLM they are being re-imbursed that money when they take the effort (Which most of do naturally anyway) to recommend the product to others, thus helping to grow the business and being rewarded.

I've been a plasterer all my working life. I've had a small budget each year to advertise in the Yellow Pages. Not because I've needed to, because almost all of my work came from referrals by satisfied customers, and repeat work over the years for the same satisfied customers.

BUT! On the odd occasion, I would take on a new client from Y-P adverts intead of passing them on to other plasterers I knew, and these would grow my workload even more as 'they' passed my details forward to 'other' clients that 'they' knew. My business grew almost on it's own, except for the couple hundred quid a year I'd spend with Y-P. As a result, I was able to ride out a couple of recessions without really noticing they were there.

On the other hand, I had a friend who was an extremely good plasterer as well. But was too set in his own ways for his own good. He was adamant that he didn't need to advertise because ALL of his work came from 'referrals' - which I have to say, it usually did. But when times got difficult, he would often phone me to ask if I had any surplus work available for his chaps until things picked up a bit. Naturally, I'd oblige when possible, but would also ask WHY he wouldn't advertise to get more work.

His answer was always the same - "I've never advertised in my life, I'm not starting now". (Even though his business was crumbling around him) - Rome springs to mind here :-)

I think that just about sums up the MLM nay-sayers here. They say -
"I'm convinced MLM is a Scam, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise" - "Furthermore, I can fish out statistics if necessary to PROVE I'm right".

We can all fish out statistics to prove our cases. Politicians do it on a daily basis to 'prove' that whatever they do is 'RIGHT'.

We all need to look at everything with an open mind. There's good and bad in every single business model you can think of (bar none). Glass houses and all that.

Didn't most people think bankers were trustworthy individuals? It turns out that 'they' are scamsters of the highest order, and even THEY got scammed by one of their own!!

MLM has seen off all the nay-sayers and will continue to make our planet a better place for all concerned.

Good luck in 2009 all.

Pete.

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MarQueteer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by fred67

For those who are absolutely convinced that MLM is just a scam - take a look at the business you're in - the business you work for even. Every business on the planet 'depends' on referrals for new business - If a business doesn't expand, it dies - FACT!

Many businesses pay good money to advertise said business - ethical business building - and the cost of the advertising is naturally passed 'forward' to the end customer - That's OK then?

Internet marketers usually PAY for leads one way or another - either with their 'time' - or with their hard cash for PPC leads etc - the cost is passed 'forward' to their customers - That's OK then?

MLM only works if you recruit alot of people, it's a pyramid sheme (although often disguised pretty well) totally different from general affiliate marketing or 1-2 levels of referrals.

It's based on selling people the dream that they can make alot of money without having a college degree or money to invest, in order to make them sell stuff while those who understand the system focus on building downlines.

So, MLM isn't about selling products, advertising services or similar, it's about mass recruiting new members to the system.

There aren't equal chances, it's not possible for those down on the lowest level to ever reach the top if they didn't participate from the beginning and basic maths can easily proof this fact. It's not because they are lazy or doing anything wrong!

Let's say you have 5 levels: 10 people on the top lvl1, 100 lvl2, 1000 lvl3, 10.000 lvl4, 100.000 lvl5. Let's see, how big would the system be with those poor 100k at the bottom becoming lvl1 with similar income like those now on lvl1:

10 x Z = 100.000
Z = 10.000
100.000 x 10.000 = 1.000.000.000

So, basically the system would have to grow from 100k to a whopping 1 billion members to fulfil the promises made to those at lvl5. Now imagine that many systems are by far deeper than 5 levels and have a worse ratio than 1:10 from level to level. You quickly need more than the whole population of China...

Thanks
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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

MLM only works if you recruit alot of people, it's a pyramid sheme (although often disguised pretty well) totally different from general affiliate marketing or 1-2 levels of referrals.

It's based on selling people the dream that they can make alot of money without having a college degree or money to invest, in order to make them sell stuff while those who understand the system focus on building downlines.

So, MLM isn't about selling products, advertising services or similar, it's about mass recruiting new members to the system.

There aren't equal chances, it's not possible for those down on the lowest level to ever reach the top if they didn't participate from the beginning and basic maths can easily proof this fact. It's not because they are lazy or doing anything wrong!

Let's say you have 5 levels: 10 people on the top lvl1, 100 lvl2, 1000 lvl3, 10.000 lvl4, 100.000 lvl5. Let's see, how big would the system be with those poor 100k at the bottom becoming lvl1 with similar income like those now on lvl1:

10 x Z = 100.000
Z = 10.000
100.000 x 10.000 = 1.000.000.000

So, basically the system would have to grow from 100k to a whopping 1 billion members to fulfil the promises made to those at lvl5. Now imagine that many systems are by far deeper than 5 levels and have a worse ratio than 1:10 from level to level. You quickly need more than the whole population of China...

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and no understanding
of how MLM organizations are actually built.

Your 'maths' are based on a faulty assumption. I can name several
companies whose top earners didn't join anywhere near the beginning.

For example... the #1 earner in PrePaid Legal Services joined when
the company was more than 20 years old.

People who tell you that success in MLM depends on recruiting an army
of people also don't know what they're talking about. The vast majority
of top income earners I know personally have recruited less than 20 people.

To get a free report (no opt-in required) on the myths of MLM go to...

http://www.mlmmyths.info

Tsnyder

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MarQueteer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and no understanding
of how MLM organizations are actually built.

Your 'maths' are based on a faulty assumption. I can name several
companies whose top earners didn't join anywhere near the beginning.

People who tell you that success in MLM depends on recruiting an army
of people also don't know what they're talking about. The vast majority
of top income earners I know personally have recruited less than 20 people.

Hehe, you learned your lessons well!

1. Don't discuss facts, tell everybody that I don't have a clue and no understanding. The system is always right, people who think it's a scam just don't understand it correctly.

2. Don't do a different calculation, don't proof me wrong, just tell everybody I'm wrong. What assumptions are faulty and in which way exactly?

Nice example of how MLM psychology works. People who fail to climb the upper ranks or criticize the system don't understand it, aren't motivated, don't follow the blueprints. I didn't expect any different reaction.

Thanks
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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

Hehe, you learned your lessons well!

Whatever lessons I've learned were learned through more than
three decades of actual experience... not positing theories on internet
forums.

1. Don't discuss facts, tell everybody that I don't have a clue and no understanding. The system is always right, people who think it's a scam just don't understand it correctly.

I'd be happy to discuss actual facts... you didn't offer any in your post.
Your theories and beliefs are nothing more than your own untested opinions.

2. Don't do a different calculation, don't proof me wrong, just tell everybody I'm wrong. What assumptions are faulty and in which way exactly?

There is no alternate calculation to be done. Your model assumes that
each level of participation multiplies the same as those before. That's why
I said you obviously have no clue how an organization is really built.

The organizational chart of an individual MLM rep would more resemble a
diamond shape than a pyramid.

Nice example of how MLM psychology works. People who fail to climb the upper ranks or criticize the system don't understand it, aren't motivated, don't follow the blueprints. I didn't expect any different reaction.

You shouldn't expect any different response because what you just wrote is
true to a large degree... just as it is with the vast majority of those not earning
money with internet marketing of their own, or other's, products.

As with any endeavor those who understand how a business operates, are
motivated to learn the skills necessary for success and follow the blueprint of
those who have achieved success before them have a much greater likelihood
of succeeding.

Those who don't understand, aren't motivated, refuse to follow established
procedures that lead to success... and take advice on forums from people who,
themselves, have never achieved success with that business model... have very
little chance of succeeding.

Tsnyder

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MarQueteer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

For example... the #1 earner in PrePaid Legal Services joined when
the company was more than 20 years old.

Ok, but it still means he built several downlines that grew till he had an army of people below him and outgrew the founders downlines...it means either founder downlines broke away for some reason or they didn't pay enough attention to grow each downline at the same speed. If you do it right, noone can ever kick you from the top.

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

People who tell you that success in MLM depends on recruiting an army
of people also don't know what they're talking about. The vast majority
of top income earners I know personally have recruited less than 20 people..

Sure, but again, they wouldn't be the top earners if these 20 or less people below them wouldn't have the biggest downlines in the system.

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

Ok, but it still means he built several downlines that grew till he had an army of people below him and outgrew the founders downlines...it means either founder downlines broke away for some reason or they didn't pay enough attention to grow each downline at the same speed. If you do it right, noone can ever kick you from the top.

Nobody kicks anyone from the top of anything. Those who ascend to the
top do so because they earn it.

Sure, but again, they wouldn't be the top earners if these 20 or less people below them wouldn't have the biggest downlines in the system.

That's kind of a "duh" moment, don't you think? The point is they didn't
have to recruit an army of people themselves. They understand the principle
and power of duplication and leverage.... much like an employer in any business.

Tsnyder

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TJ Kazunga 16 years ago

PHEW. This is boriiiing... reminds me of the myth about serious theologians arguing about how many angels can fit on the point of a needle... pointless in other words.

Why do I say this? Because this ain't a discussion, it's become a thread to STATE MY BELIEFS. I'm right, you're stupid ad nauseum...

Look, either you you will try mlm or not. either you will fail or you will succeed. Chances are you will fail coz those tend to be the stats.

Just for the record, mlm is in no way similar to affiliate marketing. Totally different models, expectations etc.
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MarQueteer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

Nobody kicks anyone from the top of anything. Those who ascend to the
top do so because they earn it.

Right, my fault, there isn't competition in MLM, it's just people who earn and deserve ascending to higher spheres because of their godlike skills.

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

That's kind of a "duh" moment, don't you think? The point is they didn't
have to recruit an army of people themselves. They understand the principle
and power of duplication and leverage.... much like an employer in any business.

No employer tells his employees: "Bring your mom, your sister and your friends, sell them our stuff and make them work for you, let them recruit their friends and family to sell our stuff and recruit as well." That's, btw, the reason why many MLMers fail. It's not the lack of skills, it's certain moral values.

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MarQueteer

No employer tells his employees: "Bring your mom, your sister and your friends, sell them our stuff and make them work for you, let them recruit their friends and family to sell our stuff and recruit as well."

Of course not... that's not the point. But, I'm not surprised you don't
understand the analogy as it applies to the principle and power of duplication
and leverage.

Tsnyder

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cypherslock

16 years ago

Depending on what style you're into (personal dev, nutrition) You may want to check out LifePath Unlimited. I've been watching them for a long time and even have their entry level product (before they revamped). Based on the quality of that one and the quality of the company (having phoned them up and talked at length), FOR ME I think this is the one. But its not because of the comp plan. I'm passionate about personal development and the quality of their products. And I wanted somthign physical as well.

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tranquility 16 years ago

Okay, Tony, I'll take this challenge! I DO believe that my MLM company is one of the best. And don't laugh when you see what I sell, because believe me there are PLENTY of men doing very well in this company.

The company is Mia Bella Scentsations and we sell gourmet candles and bath and body products.

They've been in business since 2002 and have grown almost exponentially each year since. They're debt-free and have a fantastic commission plan, with monthly cash contests and even a car bonus.

Feel free to check them out and give them your 15 point litmus test. I don't think you'll find them lacking.

I can't post the URL of my company site because I don't have enough posts yet, but if you want to check it out, go to the candle site in my sig, then click on the Shop Online tab in the nav bar. Any link on that page will take you to my company site.

Happy hunting!

Debbie
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- David Frey 16 years ago
  
  Tony,
  
  We may or may not be a good fit for you. But it might be worth a conversation.
  
  I'll like your style.
  
  You can find out a little bit more about me at MarketingBestPractices dotcom.
  
  If you email me at David at MarketingBestPractices dotcom I'll email you my private
  cell phone number and we can chat for a few minutes.
  
  All the best.
  
  David
  
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Boost-Your-Income.co.uk 16 years ago

Having been a moderately successful Herbalife Distributor for a couple of years now, my upline recommended Lifepath Unlimited and I must say that I have been well impressed with both their entry level product and the compensation plan to boot!

High earnings are achievable in a relatively short time due to the fact that each sale gives you $1000 pure profit, and their back office offering is second to none, with full autoresponders, full webmail functionality and a cracking set of tools the likes of which I have not seen before tbh.

Certainly worth a try I thought, and I have not been dissapointed - the best thing about it for me was the fact that you get a 56 day, no questions asked money back guarantee if it doesn't work out for you, but it did, so there you go...proof of the pudding is in the eating eh ;-)

If this have wet your appetite, then please visit my website or just get in touch - i'm always happy to help.

Good luck!

Phil
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fred67

16 years ago

Strange that the most 'aggressive' opponent to MLM should write this;
Here's the one stat you and anyone else interested in mlm should be aware of...

- MLM can not be fixed.

A - It doesn't need fixing - it's perfect as it is:-)

- Only 1 per 1,000 people (if that) make any money with mlm and 90% of them are the owners of the program that set the scam in motion in the first place.

A - Statistics drawn out of the air from 'Urban Myths' about MLM - can we all be directed to the source of these statistics please so that we can all have a jolly good laugh as well :-)

Maybe he's just pretending after all just to get some much needed exposure to his own business :-)

Pete.

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worksmart07 16 years ago

Here's my take on MLM and the other network marketing businesses out there. I have joined 2 of these companies in the past. The first didn't make me any money. Well I did make some retail money, but that was all offset by the high end cost of the prodcuts, membership and starter kits etc..

I actually got a few commision checks from the 2nd company, but they were few and far between. I think despite what they preach at their seminars and group meetings or whatever they call it, they're main business revolves around the business promotion and not the products. I was never able to build up a network of downlines which they so often promised I was able to.

IMO, it takes a "special" kind of person to be successful in MLM. Someone with a huge circle of influence because it all comes down to building networks, if you want the big bucks and thats where a lot of people fail in this type of business. Like someone pointed out earlier, 90%+ people fail in these types of ventures. If you can't get your networks going (building), you will just be earning retail commision - no commisions.

Anyway thats my little rant, take it for what its worth.

Des
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by fred67

Strange that the most 'aggressive' opponent to MLM should write this;
Here's the one stat you and anyone else interested in mlm should be aware of...

- MLM can not be fixed.

A - It doesn't need fixing - it's perfect as it is:-)

- Only 1 per 1,000 people (if that) make any money with mlm and 90% of them are the owners of the program that set the scam in motion in the first place.

A - Statistics drawn out of the air from 'Urban Myths' about MLM - can we all be directed to the source of these statistics please so that we can all have a jolly good laugh as well :-)

Maybe he's just pretending after all just to get some much needed exposure to his own business :-)

Pete.

I have a right to my opinion right?

I'm simply trying to warn decent people to beware and once again I say...

"please acknowledge that you've been warned".

TL

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Tsnyder 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I have a right to my opinion right?

TL

Absolutely... you have the right to be wrong...

Tsnyder
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Notarealdoctor

16 years ago

I've been working on MLM for about 5 years now, and the one proponent that always holds true is that if you put in a part time effort, you'll make part-time money. Currently I'm working with a company that markets water purifiers and the main part of what I do is give away water. The machine sells itself, but it's not cheap. The bottom line is the part-timers have to work hard to become full time in the business to reap the true success of MLM. But the one truth about MLM is that it's easy to recruit people part time because they are normally looking to supplement their income, not replace it.

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fred67

16 years ago

Because I don't want to abuse this forum, all I will say to those of you who want to get a REAL insight into MLM; Google 'Randy Gage'. At present he's giving away his 'MLM Manifesto' from his site. It's an excellent read for ALL Business people & Entrepreneurs alike and will settle a few anxious minds.

That's all :-)

Pete.

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cypherslock

16 years ago

Hey Pete. I went to the site an dhave signed up for his rants. But nowhere did I see his Manifesto. Not even in the store. Can you provide a link or the manifesto itself? It sounds like a great read.....please?

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Paulo 16 years ago

Well you can find it http://networkmarketingtimes.com/mlm-manifesto
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fred67

16 years ago

Originally Posted by cypherslock

Hey Pete. I went to the site an dhave signed up for his rants. But nowhere did I see his Manifesto. Not even in the store. Can you provide a link or the manifesto itself? It sounds like a great read.....please?

Somebody else said that. I don't know what's happened.
You can DM me an E-mail address I can send the PDF to if you like.

Pete.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Not if you want to make money with it.

99% of people that never make any money on the net are involved with mlm or some other type of recruiting people scheme.

But...

You may be able to make good money with mlm provided...

- you already have a IM list that's ready to listen to your recommendation
- you have deep pockets and patience to withstand the time needed to build

- you don't really care that others under you won't make any money

As easy as it sounds, the model is flawed online as it is offline and it's the graveyard of online marketers.

Just my opinion!

TL

ps. Please acknowledge that you've been warned.

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Not if you want to make money with it.

99% of people that never make any money on the net are involved with mlm or some other type of recruiting people scheme.

I'd love to see an actual source for that ridiculous statistic...

There are more than 100,000 members of the Warrior Forum. The vast majority
of them have no connection whatsoever to MLM... if it were possible to verify
numbers I'd be willing to bet there aren't 200 members of this forum who earned
more than $50,000 last year.

The point is that the % of people who are successful at anything is very small.

Tsnyder

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

I'd love to see an actual source for that ridiculous statistic...

There are more than 100,000 members of the Warrior Forum. The vast majority
of them have no connection whatsoever to MLM... if it were possible to verify
numbers I'd be willing to bet there aren't 200 members of this forum who earned
more than $50,000 last year.

The point is that the % of people who are successful at anything is very small.

Tsnyder

And it's even smaller when you talk about mlm.

That may be true about the members of this forum but its' not because of the small % of people that are successful at anything syndrome you mentioned above.

There are dozens of reasons most of them are not making 50k per year.

All you have to do is look over the posts and comments by newbies and the non earning veterans alike to discover the many reasons why.

In a nutshell, it's...

- Lack of a clear plan

and...

- Lack of action on the plan

But every member of this forum can make good money cause there's plenty of room for another 100k savvy online NICHE marketers to make good money.

Why??

- There are 50k plus niches to operate in:

- There are numerous proven income models:

- There are numerous proven methods to get prospects to our offers:

But...

The same can not be said for the MLM'er.

- You only operating in one niche:

And...

- 90% of your intended prospects at biz op hangouts are not really interested in your offer because they have their own offer.

- So you're fighting with everyone for that 10% of possible prospects - newbies and those looking for another "program". ( since the first didn't work out )

- Ok, you got a couple of so-called income plans variations:

You know and I know that only a very small portion will make that 50k and the rest may make a couple bucks per month or nothing at all.

Example, if all 100k members of this forum dived into the same mlm company - only a 1,000 or so can make decent money just because of the income structure of the model.

A very few at the top supported by the many at the bottom.

The story of mlm and the recruiting people model.

Anyone reading this please acknowledge you've been warned.

TL

PS. I'm finished and I'll try not to respond to another mlm related post.

If folks want to get into mlm - good luck to them.

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Kevin Riley 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Anyone reading this please acknowledge you've been warned.

Yes! OK! We've been warned. Thank you for that.

I'm sure you were burned once. Maybe it wasn't even your fault. But most people I see yelling "Scam!" are those who never really applied themselves and therefore failed.

MLM, IM, DM, or any other kind of marketing is not for everybody. In fact, doing any kind of business is not for everybody.

Nobody hands you anything on a silver platter. You actually have to work for it. MLM is a great business model for distributing products. It's the shysters who try to tell you that you can sit back, do nothing, and make money with MLM that have put a black mark on it.
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Raydal

16 years ago

Traditionally, the WF has not been too friendly to MLM, but some of my most
successful clients have been people in the network marketing industry.

The trick is that most people don't use Internet market strategies and apply
them to their MLM business. But those who do have done very well.

I know for a fact.

-Ray Edwards

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Mr. Armsey

16 years ago

If you utilize the Internet for all it has to offer, you can succeed in MLM. You can generate a huge list of contacts that know you and respect your opinion. Once you've given of yourself, then you will be rewarded.
Good luck in all of your endevors.

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

I love a good scolding... just curious... what is a discussion
if not an interactive statement of beliefs and opinions?

Sure... it would be nice if some actual facts were involved
but I've learned to deal with that... lol

Tsnyder

P.S. If you're bored you can always go look over someone's
shoulder as they make $100 in 24 hours...

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Tsnyder

16 years ago

TL...

The problem with your argument is that it contains a smidgeon
of truth mixed with liberal amounts of nonsense...

The #1 reason people aren't successful at anything is lack of skills.

To say that business failure afflicts one particular model more than
another is to be ignorant of business, in general.

The truth is that the vast majority of those people you say are
failures are folks who did very little to contribute to their own
success... no different than anything else.

I'm not sure what a bizop hangout is but if people are hanging
there hoping to build a business they will surely fail. People who
understand the business and learn the skills don't look to those
places to build their business.

Tsnyder

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cypherslock

16 years ago

There are several people that I know and have spoken with that do mega amounts in Network Marketing. Interestingly, when I asked them how come, they said it is because they focus on helping other people get the skills to achieve their dreams and then they just DO IT. If the business model and products strike a chord with you and you have a good mentor and do the work, you can succeed. It is the person, not the company and not the business model that solely determines how high they go. Attitude really does determine altitude.

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fred67

16 years ago

It seems TSnyder has kept his integrity throughout this discussion (somehow).
It seems TLTheLiberator is anything 'but' a liberator.
Does he not realise a discussion can have integrity on both sides if you believe you're right?
(After all, everyone who gets into a discussion about 'anything' believes at first that they are right).

To go on the defensive and react with just 'negativity' seems to me to be counterproductive and lacking in moral integrity.

Just a thought :-)

Pete.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by fred67

It seems TSnyder has kept his integrity throughout this discussion (somehow).
It seems TLTheLiberator is anything 'but' a liberator.
Does he not realise a discussion can have integrity on both sides if you believe you're right?
(After all, everyone who gets into a discussion about 'anything' believes at first that they are right).

To go on the defensive and react with just 'negativity' seems to me to be counterproductive and lacking in moral integrity.

Just a thought :-)

Pete.

FYI:

I never challenged anyone's integrity.

And there was nothing defensive about my comments.

And if the truth ( as I see it ) is negative in your eyes, big whoop.

I don't know what you're talking about me lacking in moral integrity.

My arguments are quite strong and the evidence is quite clear.

I never retreated to name calling to conceal a weak argument as you and others have.

TL

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fred67

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI:

I never challenged anyone's integrity.

And there was nothing defensive about my comments.

And if the truth ( as I see it ) is negative in your eyes, big whoop.

I don't know what you're talking about me lacking in moral integrity.

My arguments are quite strong and the evidence is quite clear.

I never retreated to name calling to conceal a weak argument as you and others have.

TL

I would suggest you Re-Read this whole thread, and in particular - your own comments re- strong evidence etc.

Whether you apologise or not is up to you :-)

Have a nice day though - Pete :-)

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co13

16 years ago

hey guys you better first try to find out more on scam.com board

))

cheers
me

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MichaelPaul

16 years ago

Well I don't think MLM really died or anything, but it looks to be picking up some good speed since Web Prosperity came onto the seen.

This company may be one to consider being a part of... They have a real solid foundation I think... I've been keeping a close watch on it, its still to early to tell I think...

Just in case you didn't know David D'Arcangelo is heading it up and is also the owner of another big company "GET RESPONSE".

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gopaldev

16 years ago

With the economy in tatters more people seem to be giving network marketing a closer look. It's potential to provide long-term residual income long after one's initial investment of time, energy, and money by leveraging the efforts of others definitely seems attractive when compared to being an hourly wage/salaried employee of someone else. Job security is become even more of a rarity and being an entrepreneur is a great way to work towards both financial and personal freedom.

Combining MLM's potential for exponential growth with the limitless possibilities of Internet marketing is extremely important because it will expose countless people to one's business and avoid having one to rely solely on family, friends, and referrals who usually end up being the harshest critics. Most network marketers quit before giving themselves the chance to see results and using the web will give everyone a leg up

This approach is on the rise and is a new way of introducing business-minded people to both online businesses but approaching an established business model like MLM in a very cutting edge way in the 21st century. This can also help irradicate the stereotype of cult-like home meetings and useless hype. Cheers!

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Bakai

16 years ago

Amway has been broadcasting commercials lately so I guess MLM is back

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DavePortnoy

16 years ago

Blase,

When it comes to MLM, I think that one of the best ways to make a fortune is by opening a new country if you understand what I mean.

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oscarb

12 years ago

The two things I like best about MLM are 1. residual income and 2. the focus on helping others succeed in order for you to succeed. There's a built-in team focus. I've noticed in many sales organizations, there's a "you against me" approach based on the "feed the horses, starve the donkeys" model. I think the latter model is outdated and non-empowering.

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