Keep your PIMP and H.O.E. to yourself!

hmmmmm

Perhaps I am a little strange then....

I actually kind of like it. When I read an email from someone like JMO and a couple of others who don't necessarily use "bad" language, although I'm sure the word "pimp" has been written a time or two, I feel like I'm reading an email from a friend.

On the other hand, the guys that get all technical with their prim and properness usually don't get read in my email box.

Any way I can get a copy of this thing to read? Now you got me curious.

I guess I'm just not on the right lists anymore.

Andy, if you can PM me the link, I'd like to read it.

Marketers using the crude-lewd approach need to know what their target market profile is. I remember some time ago when JMo announced he was using in-your-face subject lines - and saw he modified that approach rather quickly when results weren't what he wanted. That tracking/testing is necessary if you are using street talk in business communications.

Such language used repeatedly appeals to the young and macho market but may increase unsubscribes or unopened emails in a broader market.

Question is - are you using that language because it appeals to your target market.....just because you can....or because you don't have anything better to say?

That's the point. Depending on your target market, the newsletter may NOT be read. Doesn't matter how great the info is in it - if the language or tone is objectionable, many won't read further.

kay

I can't imagine you set out to ruin anyone's day, and like I said, I personally thought the article was excellent.

I can see tho how if your putting words like pimp etc in your subject line it would confuse and possibly offend people until at least they read it.

Kim

Whatever your original intention Andy, you created a lot of buzzzz. And ended up with readers you wouldn't otherwise have had (thanks to the OP).

You know what they say ...

There's no bad press.

Probably the same people who think you take your servers offline to make sales.

By the way, isn't a hoe a garden tool?

Hostile? LOL. Chris, I am so far from hostile right now. This is live market feedback! This is priceless stuff!

I hate to use a "line" but, you don't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Friend, there is NOTHING here that I haven't heard or seen before, because I sorta do this for a living.

Hostile? Not at all. Amused? Oh Hell Yeah!

I think we'll just agree on the definition of "Handle Better". Fair enough?

I just wanna know when the "crack pipe" product comes out.

I'm saving my allowance in the piggy bank for that one!

Marketing lesson here...

Never write the email to suit anyone but yoursrlf... the idea being your list will be much more responsive if your personality is stamped on it and you attract (and retain) those people who associate with you.

Trying to be all things to all people is impossible... So be you and attract people who like and associate with you

Robert

PS: Much less stress involved writing emails or copy if you write them with your personality in them, trying to be something your not is hard work

My sentiment exactly!

It's called hypocrisy!

I think you should get "Fly Guy" on the Stomper team...

The Pimp.. cuz' the ho faked it

Andy,

I believe the person was saying he thought you were dismissing a comment as stupid, not that you were stupid.

Believe it or not, my first thought on the subject line was, "That's supposed to be "Ho." A 'hoe' is a farm and garden tool." (My inner wombat got the better of me for just that one second. I got better quickly.)

My second thought was, "Lemberg's gotta be loving that one."

As far as people thinking you're angry when you're amused... get used to it. Happens to me all the time.


Paul

While this is the case in many instances, there are also scenarios where it's just the opposite.

In many instances a Pimp is there to "Protect" a woman who's already put herself in a very dangerous profession. Growing up on the streets and working as a cab driver I've known countless pimps and prostitutes.

Yes, most of it was very ugly, dangerous, and risky.

However, other times it was a safe way to ensure the women didn't get hurt. Now I'm not trying to stick up for pimps or anything like that, but let's face it, this is the oldest profession known to man.

Like it or not, hookers will always exist. And personally, I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it's a decision made by the woman with a clear frame of mind. And as long as hookers exist, Pimps will exist. Some will exploit the women, and others are there for protection. And believe it or not, some prostitutes are way better off having pimps.

It's easy to see how some would be offended by this. But it's also easy to see how some are offended by watching Dave Chappelle on Comedy Central. There's no way to please everyone.

Andy is obviously not Ned Flanders. But he also isn't Larry Flint.

I find that the very mention of certain gardening implements will polarize an entire community. Gardening, in particular, can be very controversial; people are so passionate in their beliefs and will argue to the very end.

I've just returned to the forum after posting my rant (too much work to spend much time here lately) and I'm happy to see that my thread generated some good debate.

First, to Andy I must say that I have always enjoyed your content, which makes it a pity to unsubscribe from your list. In fact, your content is good enough that I don't think you need to "pimp" it with over-the-top subject lines.

Secondly, I was not personally offended. I've been involved in a lot of edgy areas and am not at all "prim and proper". When the pimp stuff started coming out I thought it was amusing.

But then you started seeing it everywhere, usually without the original wit, and it started getting tedious. Now with the addition of HOE I can see where it's all headed and it ain't pretty.

A little of this stuff can go a long way. With too much use it wears off, meaning you need more and more to create the same effect. Eventually it can't help but get offensive.

Then there's the main point: know your target audience. Andy's list must be huge and includes all types. It's like Milton Berle bragging in a loud voice that he ****ed Nancy Reagan at a charity dinner attended by the Reagans. (the bragging occurred at the charity dinner, not the f***ing!). This was a real incident.

Berle's bragging would have been funny among a small group of friends but not addressed to the entire audience.

Josh,

In this context, 'bad' press doesn't equate to 'negative'. Rather it points to something that may have flown under the radar but is now top-of-mind. Whatever the outcome, 'no bad press' means it's now in front of more eyeballs.

Imagine if a major national brand created an ad that used this same title...

Maybe a business development consulting firm for example?

Their ad executive would never sign off on such a thing.

It's not meant to. It's just meant to bring a different perspective to the conversation.

Though I deleted the email because the subject line was tacky and not interesting enough to get me to open the email (and I open and read most of his emails because of their content) I did not find it "offensive" as some might.

But I am sure anyone can clearly see how the word "Ho" which is what is played on in the email subject is quite offensive to many since it not only refers to prostitutes but also a derogatory reference toward women.

"Ho" is never used to describe anything positive.

"Pimp" often is.

"Pimp and Ho" together never does.

"Ho" belongs to a class of derogatory connotations which when used to the extreme tend to generate bad press.

Well, that's certainly better than Poor Impressions from Multiple Problems & Horrible Online Experience

God bless progress...and God bless Dan Thies. That gentleman has really gone to bat for me. Something I truly appreciate.

KJ

I wonder how long it's gonna be before some jackass complains that there is only one colour of smiley. About why there isn't an assortment of colours representing all of the diverse races, colours and creeds of the members. Maybe we could have a smiley with pigtails to represent the girls. But then of course some of the feminists out there would probably complain that this is demeaning.

And hey, what about all of the other emoticons? I mean is it really fair that their right to express themselves is being suppressed by Allen and the rest of us so cruelly?

I for one think we should have a rainbow smiley with a more androgynous appearance readily achievable by the ingenious masterstroke of the addition of a few extra pixels in order to represent a non pigeonhole-able hairstyle. Kind of an earlobe length bob sort of style. It would be a braver person then me to decide on the colour of that hair though.

Perhaps we should discuss it aimlessly and in the recent typically Warrior Forum fashion of hostility and stupidity for...oh say...between eight and twelve pages. Just to make sure all sides are equally offended, offensive and, of course, to display an equal measure of "forum" insight and ignorance.

In fact, I propose that we should set up a committee to appoint a sub-comittee to write a brief in order to create a report concerning the possibility of forming an elected panel of luminaries, who will be responsible for commissioning a body of experts, with the specific aim of conducting an inquiry into the foundation of a non executive subpanel that will be wholly accountable to all of us to make these kinds of brow furrowing, ethical, moral business decisions on our behalf.

:rolleyes:

The only thing more ridiculous (and hilarious) about this thread than the moral outrage of the OP is the fact that it has turned into a serious (earnest and worthy) discussion.

This place used to be a marketing forum...targeting, strategy, tactics, communication, conversion, making a bunch of goddamn money...ah, those where the days.

:rolleyes:

[Disclaimer: By using two instances of the blue "rolls eyes" smiley variant, no offense is intended to rolls eyes smileys of any other sex, race, creed, occupation - even pimp or hoe versions - or any other form thereof]

Thomas

LOL Art - actually, I really don't know DavidO. I'm pretty sure he'd say the same thing. And now that he's unsubscribed, I'll never have the chance to get to know him.

Not a bad idea though - I'm gonna write it down.

This has been a great thread but I hope I can now lay it to rest. Yes, I probably took it (or myself too seriously but I still think I made some good points and I'm glad to have started a good discussion (though there are surely those who think it a waste of time and so be it).

Andy, I'll be resubscribing. It's not enough to make a permanent issue out of and I'm sure you are a good guy. I was trying to make a marketing point only, not a moral one!

Andy, [splorf]

Dude, you have got to stop taking this all so seriously. You're setting a terrible example for all the erstwhile empire builders in the crowd... Both well and good, thanks.

I love the quote about communication, by the way. Typical Shaw.


Paul

Mark,

I can't say you're wrong across the board, but I don't think I'd have said a lot different. I would have asked questions of the newbie that we didn't have to ask Andy, though.

Stuff like, "What's your niche?," "What kind of stuff have you sent them in the past?," etc. A lot of it has to do with the content of the message, too. If it's good, people "get" the subject line.

And the relationship with the subscribers. I've gotten excellent results from things that other people copied (wrongly) and got ripped for. For example, an email with the subject line, "What the HELL do you want?"

Yes. Really.

Next to that, "'PIMP and H.O.E. technique makes 68% more profit' - well DUH" seems tame.


Paul