Are we as Internet marketers "Killing" the email list?

Banned 14 years ago

The IM niche? Sure, a case can be made that it is being flooded by list owners. Saturated though? I wouldn't attach that label. I don't have hard evidence, but if I were a betting man I would put my money on the vast majority of list owners not being good enough to own a list in the niche. So if you know how to separate the good from the bad, the market looks pretty empty. I'm only on two IM niche lists myself.

Now if we examine the plethora of niches online and offline as a whole? Saturation isn't even close.

[ 6 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652678].message }}

smallbiz

14 years ago

It's a huge market, and unfortunately there are people who give no value to subscribers who give everyone else a bad name. On the other hand, everyone knows the deal if they've been around for longer than 2 minutes. You trade your email for the freebie and hopefully get value. The immediate unsubscribe is the risk the marketer has to take, but if you write a fantastic welcome email and follow up with quality then you minimise the risk. Quality will show. (goes off to look at first email to take own advice)

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652694].message }}

Diice

14 years ago

Yeah thats a nice thought, that the majority of list builders are not good enough.

And saturated probably wasnt the right word to use, but you get the general idea.

-Michael

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652718].message }}

Joseph Robinson Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael_Lee

And saturated probably wasnt the right word to use, but you get the general idea.

That there are just too many? Maybe yes, maybe no. As I said in another post on the front page today: It all comes down to your ability to separate good from bad. If you can do that, the market isn't very crowded at all. If anything, it's kinda empty.
- Thanks
- 2 replies
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652740].message }}
- fin 14 years ago
  
  I only read certain peoples emails. A handful. I would never read some random Internet marketers and I would imagine people only have their favorite few.
  
  It must be hard for a newbie to get people to follow him, unless they provide massive value.
  
  I do think some people will be immune to it. But if you are earning a living you're doing ok.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652788].message }}
- Horny Devil Banned 14 years ago
  
  With a quality product you'll always attract and prosper, even if the market were saturated. Unfortunately there will always be freeloaders who unsubscribe after getting a 'freebie' in IM. It's the nature of the beast. I'm fortunate in that I've never needed a list, or wanted one for that matter.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652801].message }}

hardinflash

14 years ago

Lists have been working for decades even before the internet, why would they stop working now? Just don't get yourself classified as "Junk Mail".

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652839].message }}

Bill Hugall

14 years ago

I think that being in this business we all know how to figure out the ones that know how to get my attention and those who I just gloss over. I don't think that we are in any danger as there is always a ton of new people. It gives people with new lists an opportunity to get better and sell.

I would rather buy a product from an affiliate then it's home dot com. Just seems like the right thing to do. Not to mention I read a thread not to long ago that some lady was told to email 2 times a day everyday. Those who lack common sense will fade and fail. Email lists are strong as ever.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6652939].message }}

JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Horny Devil

With a quality product you'll always attract and prosper, even if the market were saturated. Unfortunately there will always be freeloaders who unsubscribe after getting a 'freebie' in IM. It's the nature of the beast. I'm fortunate in that I've never needed a list, or wanted one for that matter.

Nothing personal, HD, but I don't understand this attitude. Unfortunately, it's one you seem to share with a lot of other people.

Automatically assigning the label of "freeloader" to anyone who doesn't stay on your list after receiving the incentive is both dismissive and disrespectful. It reeks of taking a casual decision by a total stranger as a personal insult. And it hints at an ego big enough to believe that anyone who accepts your gracious gift and doesn't recognize enough value to hang on your every word is nothing but a moocher. None of which bodes well for longevity.

One of the most valuable business lessons I learned from my network marketing years is the sorting stage mantra: 'Some will, some won't, so what? Next...'

[ 5 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6653221].message }}

Horny Devil

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Nothing personal, HD, but I don't understand this attitude. Unfortunately, it's one you seem to share with a lot of other people.

Automatically assigning the label of "freeloader" to anyone who doesn't stay on your list after receiving the incentive is both dismissive and disrespectful. It reeks of taking a casual decision by a total stranger as a personal insult. And it hints at an ego big enough to believe that anyone who accepts your gracious gift and doesn't recognize enough value to hang on your every word is nothing but a moocher. None of which bodes well for longevity.

One of the most valuable business lessons I learned from my network marketing years is the sorting stage mantra: 'Some will, some won't, so what? Next...'

When I stated "Of course there will always be freeloaders who unsubscribe after getting a freebie" I meant it in the context of the small percentage who sign up solely to gain a freebie, with no intention of remaining subscribed. The word EVERYONE was never used.

I'm not so blinkered that I don't realise a further percentage unsubscribe for a whole host of other reasons.

Hope that clears that up.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6656771].message }}

JohnMcCabe

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Horny Devil

When I stated "Of course there will always be freeloaders who unsubscribe after getting a freebie" I meant it in the context of the small percentage who sign up solely to gain a freebie, with no intention of remaining subscribed. The word EVERYONE was never used.

I'm not so blinkered that I don't realise a further percentage unsubscribe for a whole host of other reasons.

Hope that clears that up.

Clear as a bell.

I couldn't tell if you were applying the 'freeloader' label across the board, so I used the word 'seems'.

Unfortunately, you'll see a lot of folks that do have those blinkers on, believing that because they gave someone a subscription incentive, that person owes them lifelong immediate attention and regular purchases. They take it as a personal affront when someone unsubscribes, immediately or otherwise, and choose to label them as freebie hunters, mooches, freeloaders or worse. These wannabe list owners never stop to think that maybe what they're sending out isn't as valuable to their audience as they think it is.

So even though you and I and a lot of others know better, I still think it was valuable to mention. As I said, it wasn't personal. You just happened to make the post that rattled my cage a bit.

No harm, no foul?

[ 3 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657403].message }}

wlasikiewicz

14 years ago

Email lists have been dead for a good while now, you need million and millions and to get a good return you need to be getting about 90% inboxed, plus on top of that you need a really good offer.

Thanks

Signature

Build a Profitable & Professional email list.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657407].message }}

Norfolk

14 years ago

I have one email account which I used solely for the purpose of opting in for "free" reports and I rarely ever check that account. So I've become a "blank" subscriber in many newsletters to see what the people offer on the front end and I never read their broadcasts. I agree with Joe Robinson, that majority of people trying to start a list have no idea what they're doing, and I would also add that our perception of what people think is skewed by our knowledge - most people don't know the insides of IM industry and don't know what's coming when they put their email in an opt-in form.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657437].message }}

Palusko

14 years ago

I can honestly say, that most IM offers I get via email, are duplicates. In other words, I get the same email from several people. Many times, even the subject lines are the same. So I'd say yes, IM niche may be getting quite saturated, when it comes to emails.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657596].message }}

chill_007

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Palusko

I can honestly say, that most IM offers I get via email, are duplicates. In other words, I get the same email from several people. Many times, even the subject lines are the same. So I'd say yes, IM niche may be getting quite saturated, when it comes to emails.

I have to agree with Palusko. I quite often see the same offers from different people... and I am guessing that it's because there are so many "Safe-Swap" lists, particularly in IM.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658425].message }}

Joseph Robinson

Banned 14 years ago

Palusko,

Your inbox is getting saturated, not the niche :p. Stop chasing the same offers and opting into duplicate lists and you'll be fine.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657628].message }}

Palusko

14 years ago

Except I did not chase the same offers. I got on those lists after buying WSO's. So these were not duplicate lists. These was the same offer promoted by many different marketers.

So now, if I wanted to buy the product promoted, I'd have to choose one email. And the rest - well, tough luck. So from the perspective of those marketers, it was a clear email saturation.

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

Palusko,

Your inbox is getting saturated, not the niche :p. Stop chasing the same offers and opting into duplicate lists and you'll be fine.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657948].message }}

Joseph Robinson

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Palusko

Except I did not chase the same offers. I got on those lists after buying WSO's. So these were not duplicate lists. These was the same offer promoted by many different marketers.

So now, if I wanted to buy the product promoted, I'd have to choose one email. And the rest - well, tough luck. So from the perspective of those marketers, it was a clear email saturation.

That's the pont I was making. I'm not saying that you buy keep opting into one product: but as you say yourself you buy a lot of WSOs. If you're getting pounded with affiliate offers, it's not too difficult to infer the kind if product and seller that is attracting you.

So my advice, as before, is to opt out of lists that aren't giving you value, or (better) be more selective about who you buy from. Then those generic affiliate emails disappear

.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658193].message }}

Palusko

14 years ago

Normally, that would work. But in the case of WSO's, unsubscribing will also unsubscribe you from product update emails, because once you buy an WSO, you are on the market-to list (for some reason), which happens to be the same as product-update list.
In my case, the products I bought were topic related, and from very well repsected WSO creators. And granted, the products met (or even exceeded) my expectations. So, no problem there.
So I guess, what I am saying in regards to the topic of this thread is, that indeed, Internet marketers - even the good ones and the ones with good products - are often killing the whole email marketing way of doing business, because it seems, that they all are following simple 'I promote you, you promote me' way of doing business. So when a new product is released, you will get the same email, promoting the same product, using the same tactics - all at the same time. So when the email says : "I came across this awesome product, and was lucky enough to test it. And I tell you, the results were spectacular" (I'm sure you know this type of emails)... so, when you get such email, and then you get it again, and again, from several other people - what is the value of that email? And more importantly: where is the truth in that email? And that's what I mean, when I say, that IMers indeed tend to kill email marketing (and shoot themselves in the foot).

Originally Posted by Joe Robinson

That's the pont I was making. I'm not saying that you buy keep opting into one product: but as you say yourself you buy a lot of WSOs. If you're getting pounded with affiliate offers, it's not too difficult to infer the kind if product and seller that is attracting you.

So my advice, as before, is to opt out of lists that aren't giving you value, or (better) be more selective about who you buy from. Then those generic affiliate emails disappear

.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6663326].message }}

Viramara

14 years ago

Honestly, a constant pet peeve to me is when an internet marketer fooling themselves by thinking that the freebie their ad-swap partners offer is a "content". I've had signed up to marketers in the past who gave nothing in their emails but pointing to their swap partners, and they do it everyday.

I mean come on? You sign up to marketer, and he point to another marketer's freebie. Then this marketer offer other marketer's freebie. It's a devil's game. Overdoing ad-swap like this is a surefire way to kill your list.

For the moment, I'm lucky enough to stick in local list building. It's never saturated in here as long as other bloggers don't know about capturing name and email addresses, mwahahaha

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657656].message }}

HelpingYouBeAnExpert

14 years ago

I have people on my list for years and some show up 30+ times on my list have purchased dozens of my or my affiliate products but thousands who unsubscribed. The people who like your stuff will stay some will not, I would not worry about saturation worry about what you do with the list it's not relavent the rest of people in my opinion on what you do.

Thanks

Signature

Join Next Live Mastermind Zoominar 100% Real World Secrets to Get Up And Running. Are you Stuck? Donâ€™t miss it www.MonthlyMastermind.org

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6657687].message }}

marketinguk

14 years ago

I think that anyone who contributes to this forum on a regular basis will likely know why many people are offering "FREE WSO's". Whilst some on this forum, may be doing it to provide great value content in one form or another and to use it to build a responsive list, there are many who are simply using at as a sales funnel to profit at the backend.

Like someone mentioned above, there are many newbie's who won't realise this and I think there will always be a substantially large number of them to ensure saturation shouldn't be a major issure any time soon. However, in the past when I was subscribed to too many lists, I noticed how many people offered a free WSO and then spent a number of follow up communications telling others about how they should do the same, saying "hey it worked as you are on my list through this, do the same".

Whilst there's nothing necessrily wrong with this, if many people really do end up taking the action proposed then there may be a risk of saturation in the IM market here at the WF. However, how many of those really end up taking the action and producing these offers? As has regularly been the case, I doubt many at all! Thus, I expect this market to consistently have more demand versus the supply.
I could be wrong of course on this.

Joel

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658348].message }}

fin 14 years ago
I think Internet marketers are fighting a losing battle against most things:
- People are used to guest posts now and less people click through
- People are used to comments now and don't comment (just check Problogger and see how much they get for one of the biggest blogging blogs)
- Less people sign up to lists
- Less people open emails
- Less people share on social networks
Obviously they ain't dead, but it's a lot harder these days because everyone has a making money blog of some kind.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658385].message }}

Peter29

14 years ago

I think it will really help if you additionally write "Subscribe to my newsletter and find out a lot of great information about..." not just "Get my free report"
If you're being honest with your prospects, they won't unsubscribe.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658369].message }}

ExpertSEOServices

14 years ago

I wouldn't say it was getting saturated. I think building a list is very powerful and there is a lot of potential and money making potentail especially if you treat your list right and build a list in a white hat and safe way.

I personally do very well from my list. I interact with them and don't spam them with endless offers. Thats the way to do successful list building.

I have also subscribed to many free WSOs here on the forum and stay subscribed to them and buy many products from them. I am always interested in reading reviews of products and getting another marketers personal opinions.

Just my 2c

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

[SOLO AD] REVIEW PRICES - Buyer Lists Included - Quality Solos - LIMITED GOING FAST!!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658516].message }}

Hopeless Bromantic 14 years ago

Let's not forget that email marketing is alive and well in companies of all sizes and throughout the private sector. The biggest problem, at least in my opinion, is that it's abused and misused more often than not.

The biggest single mistake that anyone makes is to use their list to overcommunicate with subscribers. I would say that one message/newsletter per week should be the absolute maximum.

I found this book to be a helpful reference: Email Marketing - An Hour a Day by Jeanniey Mullen and David Daniels.
- Thanks
Signature

Bros find strictly platonic dudes on seekBromance.com
_______________________________________________
"It's pretty simple. You work hard, you believe anything is possible, and you try to make the world better."
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658556].message }}

dcristo

14 years ago

Of course not there is a world outside of internet marketing. You can only "kill" your list.

Thanks

Signature

Are you wanting to learn all the poker lingo?

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658575].message }}

Big Al

14 years ago

Looking at it another way...

I listened in on a call by a super-affiliate the other day and he said he preferred to go after people who were on other people's email list. For the simple reason that they're used to that kind of marketing.

It's that kinda thing: one man's junk is another man's treasure.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

My Dirty Little Blog

1) Solo Ad Secrets PLR
2) Productivity PLR Bundle | 3) Clean Eating PLR
4) 29 Internet Marketing PLR Emails | 5) Product Creation PLR (with audio MP3 and graphics)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658577].message }}

fin 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Big Al

It's that kinda thing: one man's junk is another man's treasure.

That's what Elton John said.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658593].message }}

Anonymous Affiliate

14 years ago

There's no saturation due to sheer number. There's saturation due to the lack of good content being emailed about. If you email random affiliate promotions day in and day out, you will burn your list. If you email useful stuff your subscribers appreciate, they will continue open YOUR emails no matter how many other lists they're subscribed to.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658600].message }}

louie6925

14 years ago

Have to agree with Joe Robinsons first post! If you don't chase the same niche as millions of others then you have nothing to worry about! if you do then your content has to offer something different, and to keep those subscribers you have to continue to provide that value throughout!

I personally have several lists in very different niches, IM is one of the hardest to sustain, thats where alot of noobs go wrong, people in niches away from IM don't see the same emails from many, your will be pretty much unique and that makes a world of difference! in my experience of course!!!!

Thanks

Signature

Feel free to chat if you live in the UK I may have something for you!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6658873].message }}

MonIncBaby

14 years ago

As a marketer you have to continuing selling, if your subscriber dont know that the shouldnt be on your list. Get a list where marketers havent reached like music download buyers. The internet is growing everyday with new people. Which means theres always a market to promote to and new people. Only thing that concern most marketers is that we dont wanna recycle the same others do, so what I do for my list is send my prospects gifts in mail . How would you feel you woke up with a $5 bill in the mail from me. Stand out and succeed.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6659449].message }}

Randall Magwood

14 years ago

You wont encounter saturation. Focus on marketing your website the best way as possible and you will see sales - no matter the niche.

For example (an offline example)... you could run 2 of the same ads in the Sports section of the newspaper and in the Classified section of the newspaper... and both will get response.

Thanks

Signature

Get in contact with me

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6659784].message }}

Andrew74

14 years ago

It will never be saturated with good marketers but it does concern me. How do punters know they have got onto something good? They could be so annoyed with the amount of free offerings that they automatically ignore and future ones

Thanks

Signature

Cheers,

Andrew

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6660501].message }}

Aussie_Al

14 years ago

I think if you offer real value every time you send your list an email then you won't kill your list

People who blindly send me offer after offer after offer with no thought get un-subbed to pretty fast.

Thanks

Signature

Punk Lyrics
A-1 Survival

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6663524].message }}

Vasilev

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael_Lee

Hey guys,

as the owner of a decent sized list i have often asked myself this question. It seems everyday i scan this forum and find people building a list or telling others to do so.

Are we not in danger of over-saturating this market? For example, many people are creating Free products on this forum, just as i have. But now it seems as though almost everyone is doing it, and everyone knows the catch. They arent getting a report for free, they are getting it in return for a subscription, which will be used to make money by the product creator. And as everyone knows this there are an increasing number of people who will immediately unsubscribe just to get the product.

Would love to know everyone elses thoughts on this,
-Michael

Nobody is killing anything.

There are not too many that know e-mail marketing, and there are a billion people( may be more) surfing online.

So It's all good.

Thanks

Signature

Entrepreneurs only!!!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6663664].message }}

faisalmaximus

14 years ago

I create the list from my own website and not just for the exchange of free product. People who buy my service once, join my list because they have interest on the same type of services. So, this way I maintain the quality of my list. Never send too much unnecessary spammy emails to the subscribers, otherwise the rate of unsubscribing will increase.

Thanks

Signature

GOOGLE 1st PAGE RANKING
WITH MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6663715].message }}

Are we as Internet marketers "Killing" the email list?

Trending Topics

Hello there

Kicked the diet coke addiction ...

AEO/AIO/GEO differences

Veteran bloggers, do you notice a decline in visitor comments?

The Masters....