How To Kill Your Reputation In TWO Forums In 3 Easy Steps!!!

by Melody
109 replies
Sometimes you really have to wonder if people really realize just how 'small' the internet is - especially in the IM space......obviously, I cannot name the person or the WSO but here is what is going on:

1) Warrior A (with significant post count - someone "we can trust"!) launches WSO with great sales letter - but a sharp-eyed Warrior notes that those income bars on the Clickbank screen shot don't match up - yup - income has been falsified!

2) Another sharp eyed Warrior spots the site/product from above WSO being sold in the Marketplace at another well known forum......

3) Warriors post here and at the other Marketplace - PMs Warrior A at both locations. Posts and PMs are ignored....WSO is DELETED by Warrior A....posts at Marketplace DELETED by Warrior A.....there goes the possibility that 'something happened' and Warrior A just hasn't had time to come back and respond and clear up the mess.....he is NOT lying in a ditch somewhere.

I have received PMs that there were 'issues' with his last WSO - and refund requests were ignored then, just as now.

And here is the point I want to make: I am 54 years old. I have been in sales since I was 16 years old - started out as the sales manager for my high school newsletter. I have been in a very tough competitive niche - payment processing - for more than 20 years, and I am EXTREMELY successful. I made the transition in the industry from offline to online and not many of my generation were able to do that.

I have clients that have been with me for more than 15 years and in this business - that just doesn't happen. I have had processors go out of business overnight, owing clients HUGE amounts of money - but I was able to salvage my relationships with my clients, in spite of some very ugly situations, because I always try my best to do the right thing for my clients. ALWAYS!

I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.

The world is a very small place these days. I have clients in virtually every major city in the world - and your reputation follows you everywhere. Yesterday, for example, a new client called from Australia - referred by a client from South Africa that he met at a conference in Amsterdam......now THAT is a global reach, folks.

Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.

Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything. That $20 you made today is nothing compared to the time it takes to rebuild your reputation - if you ever can.

I don't know what is going on in this person's life - perhaps something so desperate that he has had to resort to such measures, but to me - this is simply sad. Yes, I know it's dishonest, but it's also heartbreaking to see someone that apparently has some good knowledge (based on past posts, thanks you's etc) throw it all away for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars - small change compared to the long-term value of a good reputation.

My honest hope is that he will see this post - and make an attempt to get back on the right path again.

Melody
#easy #forums #kill #reputation #steps
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    Melody - your on-exit popup is awesome. Did you hire someone to make it? I'm thinking it's time for me to make my own a lot more attractive. I've never hired a web designer, only graphics designers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Chris - not sure which script I am using on the MobiOptin site but will check and PM you - I am pretty sure I bought it here through a WSO - I rarely go outside of the WF for anything I use!

      As to the site - hand built it myself! Including the graphics - some women learn how to knit - I learned how to build websites - it's a good creative outlet for me considering that most of my day revolves around contracts ;-)

      Melody
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
    Right on the money, Melody.

    I've watched the WSO thread from the time Jeremy replied, and it's pathetic to say the least. Trying to get out clean by selling the whole thing is also not justified IMO.

    Who knows about the statistics that are shown on Sitepoint auction...

    First one should never forge these statistics. Trying to make a quick buck, it can backfire completely. Then, if one has done this, one must not avoid the crowd in such a manner. Have the courage to admit it, and invest the time building a reputation back. With every such act, the reputation is draining...
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by Swastik View Post

      Right on the money, Melody.

      I've watched the WSO thread from the time Jeremy replied, and it's pathetic to say the least. Trying to get out clean by selling the whole thing is also not justified IMO.

      Who knows about the statistics that are shown on Sitepoint auction...

      First one should never forge these statistics. Trying to make a quick buck, it can backfire completely. Then, if one has done this, one must not avoid the crowd in such a manner. Have the courage to admit it, and invest the time building a reputation back. With every such act, the reputation is draining...
      That's exactly what I said to him in a PM on both forums last night - and then discovered this am that he had deleted all of the Warrior posts at the other forum, and deleted the WSO here.

      Show some backbone, admit you were desperate (?) and screwed up. Re-build your rep here.....but I would say that ain't his gameplan at this point!
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    Originally Posted by Melody View Post

    Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.
    Yep. WSO's live on at WSO Tracker - Tracking, Notifications, Watchlist, RSS Alerts, Stats and more... | Warrior+Plus -- comments and all. It's a handy tool for buyers to check a seller's history.

    Even if WarriorPlus didn't have a copy of all WSOs, they'd pop up elsewhere. Lots of folks on this forum save copies of threads that are likely to disappear. Like you said -- this kind of stuff is just waiting to pop up when least expected.

    The person in question scrambled to cover his tracks. Best thing he could do -- if he cared about his rep at all -- would be to just come forward, come clean, apologize and make amends. Start fresh.

    (Unfortunately, too many people in the same situation choose to just "start fresh" under a new name -- and they compound their problems when folks later discover who they really are.)

    Cheers,
    Becky
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      Yep. WSO's live on at WSO Tracker - Tracking, Notifications, Watchlist, RSS Alerts, Stats and more... | Warrior+Plus -- comments and all. It's a handy tool for buyers to check a seller's history.

      Even if WarriorPlus didn't have a copy of all WSOs, they'd pop up elsewhere. Lots of folks on this forum save copies of threads that are likely to disappear. Like you said -- this kind of stuff is just waiting to pop up when least expected.

      The person in question scrambled to cover his tracks. Best thing he could do -- if he cared about his rep at all -- would be to just come forward, come clean, apologize and make amends. Start fresh.

      (Unfortunately, too many people in the same situation choose to just "start fresh" under a new name -- and they compound their problems when folks later discover who they really are.)

      Cheers,
      Becky
      LOL - I forgot about that this am - and I shouldn't have since I use the site myself frequently!

      Still hoping that he will change his mind and make amends - this is NOT about the $20 here - I don't care about that at this point - you just really hate to see someone blow themselves up like this!

      Melody
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  • Profile picture of the author SaSeoPete
    Yep I saw that both of them. He tried to sell in on SP this morning.
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  • Profile picture of the author sachibhat
    Good Reputation is something which takes time to build but getting that reputation to spoil will take seconds.

    So be honest
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Melody -

      I don't think he could delete the wso here - he could mark it closed and remove the text by editing - but it may have been deleted by mods. I've been watching this, too, and checked the sales page that had the falsified info on it - and the message there today is

      Sorry guys! This has sold out.
      Also, on the other site it was mentioned he "forgot to add google analytics" - but you can "see it's legit" if you " check my revenue screenshots".

      "Correcting" his original errors and then trying to sell through another forum is an indication of how deliberate this attempt was - as does the lack of response when found out.

      From the WSO Rules:

      3. Anyone Caught Scamming Members Will Be Deleted From This Forum Entirely. (obviously)
      They don't get much more scammy than faking earnings to sell a product. Two sets of faked income, two scam attempts and lie after lie - is about as deliberate as it gets.

      kay

      EDIT: Glad to see "banned" in this case. It doesn't matter who it was - it's important to air it so everyone knows NOT to try scamming members here.
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      • Profile picture of the author seemar49
        It even surprises me that when I was at a seminar the main speaker were telling the audience that it is ok to fabricate a story to get a sale. What message was this sending out to an audience of newbies?
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        • Profile picture of the author Raydal
          Originally Posted by seemar49 View Post

          It even surprises me that when I was at a seminar the main speaker were telling the audience that it is ok to fabricate a story to get a sale. What message was this sending out to an audience of newbies?
          I think this is a completely different subject and issue.

          Do you think that the famous Wall Street Journal letter using the
          story of the two college graduates was true?

          All fairy tales are not true either. You can use a story to illustrate
          a point but this is not the same as LYING and DECEPTION.

          I don't know in what context this marketer was saying to fabricate
          a story, but if it's in the way I'm thinking he is right.

          -Ray Edwards
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      • Profile picture of the author Melody
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Melody -

        I don't think he could delete the wso here - he could mark it closed and remove the text by editing - but it may have been deleted by mods. I've been watching this, too, and checked the sales page that had the falsified info on it - and the message there today is

        Also, on the other site it was mentioned he "forgot to add google analytics" - but you can "see it's legit" if you " check my revenue screenshots".

        "Correcting" his original errors and then trying to sell through another forum is an indication of how deliberate this attempt was - as does the lack of response when found out.

        From the WSO Rules:

        They don't get much more scammy than faking earnings to sell a product. Two sets of faked income, two scam attempts and lie after lie - is about as deliberate as it gets.

        kay

        EDIT: Glad to see "banned" in this case. It doesn't matter who it was - it's important to air it so everyone knows NOT to try scamming members here.
        Kay -

        Thanks for the info on the deletion of the WSO - I have only done one, and wasn't aware of the ability to close or delete one. And you are right - the comments on the other site definitely tell the tale of the original intent.

        On a 'higher' note - many warriors PM'd me to ask what I used for the cool exit pop-up - and it is Action Optin by a very trustworthy Warrior - Robert Plank.

        Thankfully - we have more Warriors like Robert than 'unnamed'.........

        This is still the best place online to learn and grow...

        Melody
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark .W. James
    Could you please tell us who this person is?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      There is NO way you're 54.

      That Avatar must be a fake.

      All kidding aside, you're right...reputation is the whole ball game. I am
      speaking as someone who has done stupid things and as a result has lost
      some good friendships. While some might think they're trivial things (bragging,
      opening my big mouth, being super opinionated, giving opinions as if they
      were law) there have been people who simply put me in the category of
      "total ass" and no longer want anything to do with me (not that I blame
      them)

      And who did it hurt?

      Me.

      So yes, what you do follows you your whole life.

      And some things are just not easily fixable.

      Thanks for a very sobering post.
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      • Profile picture of the author Melody
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        There is NO way you're 54.

        That Avatar must be a fake.

        All kidding aside, you're right...reputation is the whole ball game. I am
        speaking as someone who has done stupid things and as a result has lost
        some good friendships. While some might think they're trivial things (bragging,
        opening my big mouth, being super opinionated, giving opinions as if they
        were law) there have been people who simply put me in the category of
        "total ass" and no longer want anything to do with me (not that I blame
        them)

        And who did it hurt?

        Me.

        So yes, what you do follows you your whole life.

        And some things are just not easily fixable.

        Thanks for a very sobering post.
        Gee - shoulda mentioned my age a long time ago - this is great for the ego! ;-)

        Seriously though, Steve, I never fault a person for voicing their opinions, and I think what you have accomplished is amazing! You are one of the folks here that I learn from - so not all of us consider you a 'total ass'!

        But even if I did - there is a HUGE difference between voicing your opinions, whether they are 'considered' right or wrong, and pure dishonesty.

        And you have the integrity and courage to repair any broken bridges, I am sure.

        Again - integrity really, really matters.

        melody
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by amudara View Post

      Could you please tell us who this person is?
      No, that's against WF policy - I posted because I really wanted to make the point that this was very shortsighted to do what he did - and - silly me! - I was kind of hoping he would step up and make it right, as Rebecca suggested.

      Melody
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Melody View Post

        No, that's against WF policy - I posted because I really wanted to make the point that this was very shortsighted to do what he did - and - silly me! - I was kind of hoping he would step up and make it right, as Rebecca suggested.

        Melody
        And that's why his reputation likely hasn't been harmed nearly as much as you think. I guarantee you 90% of Warriors here have no idea who or what you're talking about.

        Edit:

        Seeing now that he was banned. That will do it, lol. Here at least. Good.
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        • Originally Posted by blackhatcat View Post

          And that's why his reputation likely hasn't been harmed nearly as much as you think. I guarantee you 90% of Warriors here have no idea who or what you're talking about.

          Edit:

          Seeing now that he was banned. That will do it, lol. Here at least. Good.
          On that note, he had no infractions or anything to lead people to believe he was unscrupulous.
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        • Profile picture of the author Melody
          Originally Posted by blackhatcat View Post

          And that's why his reputation likely hasn't been harmed nearly as much as you think. I guarantee you 90% of Warriors here have no idea who or what you're talking about.

          Edit:

          Seeing now that he was banned. That will do it, lol. Here at least. Good.
          True to some extent - but there are good people that make a full time living here through WSOs, and now he will not be one of them. Both the internet and the universe have a way of bringing stuff back on you at the strangest times......in fact, I had no idea who this person was in other forums since this is the only place I really spend any time (or money) at....but I can tell you that no less than a dozen people know this person by other names on other forums.....

          So, yes, it will damage this person beyond the WF......

          Melody
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar View Post

      All I can say is, you don't look anywhere near 54, Melody.
      Maybe 44...
      Bryan - I ALREADY BOUGHT YOUR BOOK!!!! LOL - just kidding and thanks for the compliment - it's amazing how the wrinkles don't show when you reduce those photos!!!

      Mel
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      • Profile picture of the author mschmalenbach
        Originally Posted by Melody View Post

        it's amazing how the wrinkles don't show when you reduce those photos!!!

        Mel
        My wife wondered if she shrunk her head, maybe her wrinkles wouldn't show either...!!

        Tomorrow she'll be ****** (censored by 'she who must be obeyed'!) and she looks way younger - I told her she doesn't need to shrink her head - she looks just fab.

        Now, maybe I need to shrink MY picture!! Though not sure that'll make the grey hair go away!!

        Melody - thanks for this posting - good lessons for new and experienced alike to take on board.

        Cheers

        Martin
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        • Profile picture of the author Melody
          Originally Posted by mschmalenbach View Post

          My wife wondered if she shrunk her head, maybe her wrinkles wouldn't show either...!!

          Tomorrow she'll be ****** (censored by 'she who must be obeyed'!) and she looks way younger - I told her she doesn't need to shrink her head - she looks just fab.

          Now, maybe I need to shrink MY picture!! Though not sure that'll make the grey hair go away!!

          Melody - thanks for this posting - good lessons for new and experienced alike to take on board.

          Cheers

          Martin
          No shrinking doesn't make the gray hair go away - but Loreal does ;-D

          And kudos for being an obviously intelligent male - that was a wonderful response to the birthday girl - turning 21 again is always stressful - although I celebrate everyone of them for at least a week - no matter the number - it is ALWAYS better than the alternative and worth every moment of party time. It's amazing how many meals out I can finagle.....

          Melody
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    • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
      I believe Bryan...Melody, you don't look like 54. Please check your birth certificate because you maybe born between 1964 and 1967.

      Ross

      Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar View Post

      Hmm...I'm not sure if I believe you, Melody.
      You don't look anywhere near 54.
      Maybe 44...
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Bryan Kumar View Post

      Hmm...I'm not sure if I believe you, Melody.
      You don't look anywhere near 54.
      Maybe 44...

      That was my thought exactly Bryan! Either that or that picture is 10 years old. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Murphy
    Hi Melody,

    Yeah, it was sad to see the lengths they had gone through to try and cover their tracks. I just checked their profile, and they've now been banned from the Warrior Forum.

    I doubt this is the last we've heard from this "Warrior", as I'm sure they'll be back under a new username soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedz
    Banned
    Sorry to hear about what happened Melody. I just hope that it will still be sorted out.
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  • Profile picture of the author flnz400
    No, the entire thread was deleted. I know because I posted in it... not to stir up more ruckus, but to make it known that stepping up and making it right was a critical step at this point in time.

    Unless there is no concern for myself and other's purchases from another site, then I would say let it be. Maybe flip that too? Cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Ryan
    It is unfortunate that someone would feel the need to cheat people just to make a few bucks. The thing is, they probably would have made a lot more money if they would have created an honest product that provided value. At least they would still have their integrity and reputation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.
    Melody, in sharing this attitude you have made the post of the year! Thank you!

    What a difference it would make if everyone were to ask: "Starting with my integrity and caring, what techniques can I use to be of service?" I see some people chase one idea after another in a blizzard of confusion. If people start with the attitude of service, than the answer to "what tools & techniques" is easy: use whichever one best serves and helps the customer.

    Thanks again for the inspiration.

    Regards,
    Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author warlords
    Wow, Melody, you sure know how to speak to your money. I agree with you there; reputation is something that no money can buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    I was following that one too...

    I was surprised to see who was doing it for certain. It just goes to show you, don't believe someone just because they throw a screen shot up and tell you it is legitimate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      I was following that one too...

      I was surprised to see who was doing it for certain. It just goes to show you, don't believe someone just because they throw a screen shot up and tell you it is legitimate.
      Jeremy - I bought the report because I had followed his posts in the past - did not even check the income stats because I felt no need to - YOU were the sharp eye that caught it.

      Thanks for your vigilance!

      Melody
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Melody,

        He definitely seemed like someone that you could probably "trust" and I really am surprised that he did this.

        Even more so, I'm surprised to find out that the guy is nothing more than a crook. The first screenshot was caught -- he took it down and put another one up, which was still wrong lol

        Then he cleaned up the bars and put it on site point, but the totals still didn't add up

        I'm leery of just about anyone who leads a sales page off with a big screen shot trying to prove income...If it was further down in the page, I probably wouldn't have even looked.
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        • Profile picture of the author B3n
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          The first screenshot was caught -- he took it down and put another one up, which was still wrong lol
          Didn't this happen last September? The scammer claimed he had been 'hacked' back then.

          Mind you, as far as I know that person is still on this forum - and selling WSOs still. So-called 'Blackhat' ones, naturally!
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          • Profile picture of the author Melody
            Originally Posted by .Ben. View Post

            Didn't this happen last September? The scammer claimed he had been 'hacked' back then.

            Mind you, as far as I know that person is still on this forum - and selling WSOs still. So-called 'Blackhat' ones, naturally!
            I missed that one - was on the road a lot last fall - but at least he made an attempt to explain - in this case - he made no explanation at all - and certainly no apology.

            Either way - bad tactics for long term success.......

            Melody
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            • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
              .Ben,

              Unfortunately, you are probably right.

              I remember the "incident" that you are talking about and I'm surprised as hell that the person is still here selling and with a somewhat "good reputation" from the amount of people that do business with him.

              Ah well, what can you do?
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              • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                Interesting to see that the scammer in question keeps deleting comments on his Sitepoint auction relating to what's happening here.
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                • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
                  Originally Posted by Hamida Harland View Post

                  Interesting to see that the scammer in question keeps deleting comments on his Sitepoint auction relating to what's happening here.
                  He's just tryin' to get rid of it. Definitely not the right way to approach this. He is accountable for what he did, and he should answer people. Running away from things in such a manner doesn't do any good.

                  He shouldn't have done this in the first place, and now, instead of clearing his act - he's trying to run away. But from what....? himself? I bet he'll have a guilt feeling somewhere, just that he won't show.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                .Ben,

                Unfortunately, you are probably right.

                I remember the "incident" that you are talking about and I'm surprised as hell that the person is still here selling and with a somewhat "good reputation" from the amount of people that do business with him.

                Ah well, what can you do?
                Jeremy, reputations go both ways and in many ways.

                I continuously get people either PMing me or emailing me about your
                $30 coaching program. I guess they figure if I recommend it that's good
                enough for them. On the other hand, I wouldn't be getting so many
                inquiries if you didn't have such a solid reputation to begin with.

                I really have to start charging you a finders fee for all the folks I send
                over to you.
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                • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
                  What scares me about this forum is that anytime something like this happens, no one is allowed to talk about it because of the dreaded "rule #1," which IMO is an issue. How are people supposed to know who they can and can't trust if we can't educate them? For instance, I've got a few bids on sitepoint and now I'm a bit worried, yet any post mentioning the name is deleted.
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                  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
                    Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen View Post

                    What scares me about this forum is that anytime something like this happens, no one is allowed to talk about it because of the dreaded "rule #1," which IMO is an issue. How are people supposed to know who they can and can't trust if we can't educate them? For instance, I've got a few bids on sitepoint and now I'm a bit worried, yet any post mentioning the name is deleted.
                    Nathan..

                    That rule is what keeps this forum so professional..

                    Imagine what COULD happen if everyone was allowed to air personal beefs..

                    People could get wrongly accused of all sorts... that rule keeps the names of scammers away from the main board, but it also keeps the crazy folks from running rampant making unfounded claims about others...
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                    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
                      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

                      Nathan..

                      That rule is what keeps this forum so professional..

                      Imagine what COULD happen if everyone was allowed to air personal beefs..

                      People could get wrongly accused of all sorts... that rule keeps the names of scammers away from the main board, but it also keeps the crazy folks from running rampant making unfounded claims about others...
                      That's true Jay...I agree with you, but there's got to be a way to warn people. IMO deleting the thread isn't enough.
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                      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
                        Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen View Post

                        That's true Jay...I agree with you, but there's got to be a way to warn people. IMO deleting the thread isn't enough.
                        I believe the person in question has been banned.

                        But even if he wasn't, there isn't anything stopping you from warning folks using other means. For example, you're free to post your warnings on your own blog and then tweet about that blog post. (Or use any other number of ways to let folks know about it.)

                        As mentioned, you just can't do it here for the reasons stated. (Also, it helps protect Allen from lawsuits and such when there aren't any names floating around on his forum -- that's another reason Rule #1 exists.)

                        Cheers,
                        Becky
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                        • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

                          (Also, it helps protect Allen from lawsuits and such when there aren't any names floating around on his forum -- that's another reason Rule #1 exists.)

                          Cheers,
                          Becky
                          That's a bogus reason. He's more likely to get sued over some of the crap coming out of the WSO section.
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                          • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
                            blackhatcat, I don't know if I'd go as far as calling it a "bogus reason" (I'm sure it does protect him from slander and libel lawsuits), but you do make a pretty good point.. lol
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          • Profile picture of the author sevenish
            Originally Posted by .Ben. View Post

            Didn't this happen last September? The scammer claimed he had been 'hacked' back then.

            Mind you, as far as I know that person is still on this forum - and selling WSOs still. So-called 'Blackhat' ones, naturally!
            Yeah, I remember that one. I also know from where he stole some of those WSOs & scripts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
    I think the WSO forum lends to some of this behavior on its own, but I really can't understand why someone would do this. I mean, in theory it would be really easy to pull a huge scam on the WSO section and if you knew what you were doing you could avoid all traces of personal identification. This is why I rarely buy from the WSO section and why I don't like running my own WSO's unless I need to. I'm not blaming the forum, but it feeds on this type of thing.

    Great post. Hopefully it will warn some new Warriors that don't know any better.

    By the way, I know its been said, but Ohio must be treating you well
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen View Post

      I think the WSO forum lends to some of this behavior on its own, but I really can't understand why someone would do this. I mean, in theory it would be really easy to pull a huge scam on the WSO section and if you knew what you were doing you could avoid all traces of personal identification. This is why I rarely buy from the WSO section and why I don't like running my own WSO's unless I need to. I'm not blaming the forum, but it feeds on this type of thing.

      Great post. Hopefully it will warn some new Warriors that don't know any better.

      By the way, I know its been said, but Ohio must be treating you well
      Nathan -

      LOL - your WSO was a total over deliver as I recall - it was awesome! I have been buying WSOs for years - and until the past year - never a problem. In fact many of the resources I use on a daily basis come from WSOs - my hubby is always amazed when he finds some expensive service or tool that he thinks we should be using and I tell him we have it and what WE paid!

      This is an amazing resource - and I just hate like hell to see the fact that many people are now concerned about buying a WSO - that should not be the case and will ultimately hurt everyone here - the sellers and the buyers!

      And yes, I have to give credit to my Ohio lifestyle - jumped out of Siicon Valley 10 years ago - today work from my log home on 5 acres - 15 mins from the Reds and Bengals stadiums, and my office overlooks my own lake. It's much nicer to see the deer and geese out my window than the traffic ;-)

      Melody
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  • Profile picture of the author esr
    This is a good reminder for me. I get so much good info here that I tend to get relaxed and trust everyone. Especially if their post count is high.
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  • Profile picture of the author trippmarxx
    I saw that WSO, and I, like everyone else, though this "Warrior" was a trustworthy person. I mean, everything they did up until this point was good. They gave solid advice, put out some decent products, etc.

    Man, all of that work just for a couple quick bucks? It really DOES make you wonder how desperate of a situation they were in for that to happen.

    I always make sure I take care of everyone. I put a high value on customer service. Without good customer service, you have no customer retention. I shouldn't have to really get into how important customer service is in your business, because it should be relevant, whether your on or offiline.

    Treat those how you would like to be treated. Next time you feel like not doing something for a customer, no matter how "out of line" or how "pesky" they may seem or be, turn the situation around and try to see yourself in their shoes.

    I bet that may change a few things, eh?

    Man, I've had some outrageous customers before, but I always try to do my best, no matter how upset I may be. I always offer support on all of my products (and some that are NOT mine), and open myself to any questions that anyone on my list of subscribers may have.

    Sure, it takes more time, but that customer will value me and what I present them a lot more than if I just ignored them.

    So, back to my main point - The internet may seem like a big place, but what most people don't realize is the amount of interlinking networks that lie within it.

    In other words, if you screw up big time, the whole community will find out, and they will find out fast.

    This person should just come clean, but then again, they may never be able to gain that trust back again, or it will at least take a lot of time.....
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  • Profile picture of the author sevenish
    Nathan,

    I PM'd you some information.
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  • Here is how to alert people, without naming the person.

    Visit WSO Tracker - Tracking, Notifications, Watchlist, RSS Alerts, Stats and more... | Warrior+Plus

    Since we know, from this thread, that it was deleted yesterday - and it involves a clickbank screenshot - We can then search fora listing that was closed/deleted yesterday regarding CB.

    It only took me 2 minutes to find out who you guys are talking about
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
      Thanks for that resource

      -Nathan
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    • Profile picture of the author Palo Coyote
      Thank you Charles, just like Nathan I was somewhat concerned about who this person is. You gave us a quick and easy way to get that info. Much appreciated.

      WSO's and this entire forum have been a very, very valuable part of my internet business. There are people here who have reputations that are Gold. They over deliver, they respond almost instantly, they show a very caring attitude. This is a valuable, and important place. Melody and I have corresponded and she's one of those excellent people. Her main point, "Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything" is one of the most important ideas everyone in this forum should heed.

      The "Lifetime Value" of a client increases exponentially when you treat them with integrity. You also get positive points in the universe, and you can feel really good about what you do for a living.

      Thanks Melody and all who commented...good stuff,

      Palo
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    • Profile picture of the author ciked
      thanks for pointing out how important a good reputation is to have. i too have been ripped off by a member who has built a great reputation here. The problem is i paid him $750 for a product that i received half finished and unusable. i bought the product in november 08 and he is still "revising" it. i am hoping he is not screwing me over but after a year I think it will just have to be a lesson learned. How would i be able to warn other members before he cons them too?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
    If richpeck is now banned then is mentioning his username, from back when he was a Warrior, still a violation of rule #1?

    Just askin'.
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    • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      If ******** is now banned then is mentioning his username, from back when he was a Warrior, still a violation of rule #1?

      Just askin'.
      I think it is, since rule #1 doesn't apply "only" to Warriors. The point of rule #1 is that if you have a problem with someone, this isn't the place to make it public. It may be inconvenient at times, but it protects the integrity of the forum and keeps Allen out of trouble.
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      • Profile picture of the author psresearch
        Originally Posted by stevenh512 View Post

        I think it is, since rule #1 doesn't apply "only" to Warriors. The point of rule #1 is that if you have a problem with someone, this isn't the place to make it public. It may be inconvenient at times, but it protects the integrity of the forum and keeps Allen out of trouble.
        My guess is that it's more to protect the integrity of the forum. It's would be virtually impossible for Allen to be held accountable for the posts here:
        California Supreme Court Affirms Broad Immunity for Defamatory Republication on the Internet : IP Law Blog : California Intellectual Property Lawyer, Attorney, Law Firm : Weintraub Genshlea Chediak, Sacramento

        In fact in light of this recent Massachusetts case the rule is more likely to protect MEMBERS of the forum:

        "BOSTON--Dozens of media firms are questioning a federal appeals court ruling that concluded truth is not an absolute defense against libel in a case concerning an e-mail sent in the firing of an office products salesman."
        ...
        "While the ruling applies only in Massachusetts, observers say it means state residents may be able to bring suit against others living elsewhere, including those who have posted material online. Observers say the decision also could pose problems for nonmedia businesses."

        Full article:

        Truth not an absolute defense to libel/slander/defamation?
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        • Profile picture of the author Magic Johnson
          I believe this post is proof of frustration which comes to you and we when we don't have any rights to tell the whole story and name drop.

          It's very bizarre.

          Instead of we having the right to call people out we have to just
          keep our mouth shut, bury our feelings and keep going on with our lives.

          This creates tensions, anxiety and frustration.

          We no longer have a right to communicate what we think, because we have no right to name people out, in fear of getting in trouble ourself, or get questioned on our own ethics.

          We have to provde proof of everything like a lawyer in court, even if it's a none scammer.

          I don't know where this all steams from. Maybe someone can clarify this.

          But I have noticed this the last four years online.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
            At the end of the day, the rule is there and people moan and groan about it.

            But, can you name one time when someone has truly been outed as a scammer and then a thread being deleted when the persons name is outed? I can't.

            Now, if you started threads like "Guru X is a no good piece of shit because he makes too much monies" -- it's going to get deleted.

            I've been a member of the forum for over a year now nad I can recall many times when someone has scammed the community...they are outed, talked about, and then when everyone is tired of it -- It goes away.
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  • Profile picture of the author momkat
    I was unhappy with one of his WSOs from the fall - I asked for a refund in the thread - I think I emailed as well - but never got a response.
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  • Profile picture of the author momkat
    Can we get the deleted WSO undeleted? Having it gone leaves those who might be vulnerable to purchasing other things from himm in the future not to be able to do any due diligence research.
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    • Originally Posted by momkat View Post

      Can we get the deleted WSO undeleted? Having it gone leaves those who might be vulnerable to purchasing other things from himm in the future not to be able to do any due diligence research.
      Just read post number 44 in this thread...it isnt really deleted
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      No, you can't get it "unbanned". He's been banned here totally - you won't see any more things for sale from him under that name, at least. At mentioned above, the deleted WSO can still be viewed at warriorplus.com

      It's another reminder to take time to check on people you are buying from. At the very LEAST, check comments in their previous WSO's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hililuud
    Originally Posted by Melody View Post

    Sometimes you really have to wonder if people really realize just how 'small' the internet is - especially in the IM space......obviously, I cannot name the person or the WSO but here is what is going on:

    1) Warrior A (with significant post count - someone "we can trust"!) launches WSO with great sales letter - but a sharp-eyed Warrior notes that those income bars on the Clickbank screen shot don't match up - yup - income has been falsified!

    2) Another sharp eyed Warrior spots the site/product from above WSO being sold in the Marketplace at another well known forum......

    3) Warriors post here and at the other Marketplace - PMs Warrior A at both locations. Posts and PMs are ignored....WSO is DELETED by Warrior A....posts at Marketplace DELETED by Warrior A.....there goes the possibility that 'something happened' and Warrior A just hasn't had time to come back and respond and clear up the mess.....he is NOT lying in a ditch somewhere.

    I have received PMs that there were 'issues' with his last WSO - and refund requests were ignored then, just as now.

    And here is the point I want to make: I am 54 years old. I have been in sales since I was 16 years old - started out as the sales manager for my high school newsletter. I have been in a very tough competitive niche - payment processing - for more than 20 years, and I am EXTREMELY successful. I made the transition in the industry from offline to online and not many of my generation were able to do that.

    I have clients that have been with me for more than 15 years and in this business - that just doesn't happen. I have had processors go out of business overnight, owing clients HUGE amounts of money - but I was able to salvage my relationships with my clients, in spite of some very ugly situations, because I always try my best to do the right thing for my clients. ALWAYS!

    I have always believed that I really have only ONE product - my personal integrity. Everything else, as far as I am concerned, is an 'add-on'. My clients know this. They know that I put their well being at the top of my priority list, and in turn - my business is well cared for as well.

    The world is a very small place these days. I have clients in virtually every major city in the world - and your reputation follows you everywhere. Yesterday, for example, a new client called from Australia - referred by a client from South Africa that he met at a conference in Amsterdam......now THAT is a global reach, folks.

    Deleting a few posts, getting rid of a WSO means nothing. It's still out there somewhere - waiting to pop up when you least expect it.

    Once you lose your integrity - you lose everything. That $20 you made today is nothing compared to the time it takes to rebuild your reputation - if you ever can.

    I don't know what is going on in this person's life - perhaps something so desperate that he has had to resort to such measures, but to me - this is simply sad. Yes, I know it's dishonest, but it's also heartbreaking to see someone that apparently has some good knowledge (based on past posts, thanks you's etc) throw it all away for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars - small change compared to the long-term value of a good reputation.

    My honest hope is that he will see this post - and make an attempt to get back on the right path again.

    Melody
    Dude, it is hard for someone who is desperate for money to even care about a reputation. Nobody ever buys from a newbe, so at some point people decide to fake it until they make it.

    These are the results you get.
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    • Profile picture of the author Melody
      Originally Posted by Hililuud View Post

      Dude, it is hard for someone who is desperate for money to even care about a reputation. Nobody ever buys from a newbe, so at some point people decide to fake it until they make it.

      These are the results you get.
      To be honest - I assumed that this was perhaps what happened - some serious financial situation that caused him to make a rash, and not wise decision to do what he did. I contacted him privately - several times - here and at the other forum. He was given the opportunity to simply 'man up', admit it was a mistake and apologize, and he did something entirely different.

      It's done, it's over - he's gone for now.

      Melody
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  • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
    Well, that's nice that everyone is happy that this person has been banned, but frankly, this thread was a complete waste of my time, because:

    a) I have no idea who you are talking about
    b) I have no clue what the offending product was
    c) because of a) & b) above, I cannot protect myself from the poster or the product
    d) this clown can and probably will come right back under a new name and do it again.

    If the offense is so grevious that it deserves banning, then it also deserves full outing disclosure to protect members. The argument that silence somehow protects the forum owner is specious reasoning.

    I swear to god, the way this place is run is ridiculous. People, posts and threads getting "disappeared" for no discernible reason, and then everyone talking about how they can't talk about things.

    Ridiculous.

    :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      What I don't understand is this, there are exceptions.

      When Alison G was run out of town on a rail here, it was more than publicly
      disclosed. It was a monumental brew ha ha. It might have been the most
      widely viewed thread on the forum for months.

      Granted, she conned some pretty respected warriors here, but does the
      offense have to be that horrible for public awareness?

      And then who decides if an offense is bad enough?

      Seems to me that if a person has been banned from the forum, it should be
      more than acceptable to point out who the person was and why they were
      banned.
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      • Profile picture of the author Melody
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        What I don't understand is this, there are exceptions.

        When Alison G was run out of town on a rail here, it was more than publicly
        disclosed. It was a monumental brew ha ha. It might have been the most
        widely viewed thread on the forum for months.

        Granted, she conned some pretty respected warriors here, but does the
        offense have to be that horrible for public awareness?

        And then who decides if an offense is bad enough?

        Seems to me that if a person has been banned from the forum, it should be
        more than acceptable to point out who the person was and why they were
        banned.
        As a consumer, I agree with you and Randy - it does seem to be a rather heavy handed policy, and as we know - not always meted out evenly.

        On the other hand - I look at it as a business owner that could be legally liable for damaging statements made on this forum. Yes, Allan would most likely win if it went to court but would it be worth the trouble and cost? No - and I say that as someone that has owned her own company (many of them) for more than 30 years now.

        I think it would be appropriate to name the banned person, but naming the offense - unless you have solid evidence to back it up - would be risky. I think in the case of AllisonG - there was quite a lot of evidence to back up what had been done, in this case - it would probably have been a little tougher to show intent/damages to anyone here.

        All of that being equal, I have agree with Steve that there have been times when people have been named and the person calling them out was congratulated on the work. It is not a policy that seems to be equally and evenly enforced.

        BUT - the real reason for my post today was simply that I am tired of seeing the scam artists hitting the WSO, and this one really got to me because I thought he was "ONE OF US"! Silly, huh? But I felt betrayed.

        I have probably spent as much as anyone over the years on WSOs (as most of you that posted here know - that was the REAL reason for the compliments!) and I have learned so much and benefitted do much from WSOs - that it is sad to see newcomers here voice the opinion that they are afraid to buy WSOs.

        That hurts everyone here - those that make a living selling their products here and those that come here to buy WSOs to learn how to make a living.

        back to work now...........

        Melody
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      • Profile picture of the author GeorgettaSterling
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        What I don't understand is this, there are exceptions.

        When Alison G was run out of town on a rail here, it was more than publicly
        disclosed. It was a monumental brew ha ha. It might have been the most
        widely viewed thread on the forum for months.

        Granted, she conned some pretty respected warriors here, but does the
        offense have to be that horrible for public awareness?

        And then who decides if an offense is bad enough?

        Seems to me that if a person has been banned from the forum, it should be
        more than acceptable to point out who the person was and why they were
        banned.
        I get it that the "rules are the rules" and all, but I am often perplexed by their application as well.

        Does anyone remember "blond 16 year old girl Jordyn" aka Richard Earl aka Danny Wall (I think?). That particular serial offender has been "outed" very publicly on this forum several times. Nobody said anything about "Rule #1."

        The funny thing is that now, when I peruse the WSO section, I wonder which of the posters is, in fact, Jordyn/Earl/Wall/Whoever he/she actually is (back again...). Banning doesn't seem to work too well for that. It is only my opinion, but public INFORMATION tends to work better than "member banned. Don't disclose."

        I see the other side too, of course - it can't degenerate into a public name-calling cluster f-, because then the forum is again worthless AND innocent people are hurt.

        I don't know - the whole thing makes my head hurt.

        Georgetta
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Randy Bheites View Post

      ahahaha! I could hear you coughing through the *coughrichpeck* screen...

      Still and all, it seems a rather draconian environment around here. I have a problem with draconian environments. They rankle my all-American life, liberty etc backbone.

      @Tina G: "freeeedom!!"
      You don't need to keep coming back if this places "rankle's" you so much.
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      • Profile picture of the author Melody
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        You don't need to keep coming back if this places "rankle's" you so much.
        Very true!

        I do believe that the basic premise is something like 'he who pays da bills, makes da rules!'

        This is now a free forum - although many of us did indeed pay to join many moons ago.
        If you don't like the 'restrictive' environment set by the guy that makes this place possible - that's okay. You are free to come.....and go......

        It's kind of like renting a house with a no pets policy - it's the owner's right to set the rules.

        Sorry if it bothers you, but well, that's just the way it is.

        Melody
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      • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        You don't need to keep coming back if this places "rankle's" you so much.
        Sorry, but I believe that dissent is patriotic. I refuse to quietly accept what I see as unfair, or to "love it or leave it" to please you or anyone else. If my comments displease you, you are likewise free to leave this public forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Randy Bheites View Post

          Sorry, but I believe that dissent is patriotic. I refuse to quietly accept what I see as unfair, or to "love it or leave it" to please you or anyone else. If my comments displease you, you are likewise free to leave this public forum.
          Funny I call it whining and there is a lot of people on here that like to do that.

          I guess they are all patriotic as well.

          I learned to just let the people complain and whine while I go on doing what I need to do.

          The rules have been the same for a long time and will more than likely remain the same. I just wanted to help you out since these rules are so burdensome and unfair to you. I am fine with the rules so there is no need for me to leave.

          Basically, you are wasting your time trying to be "patriotic" regarding the rules.
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
      Originally Posted by Randy Bheites View Post

      ahahaha! I could hear you coughing through the *coughrichpeck* screen...

      Still and all, it seems a rather draconian environment around here. I have a problem with draconian environments. They rankle my all-American life, liberty etc backbone.

      @Tina G: "freeeedom!!"
      No...draconian is when they cut off your freakin head after you get done screaming...

      "freeeedom!!"

      It WAS a good movie, though :p
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    • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
      Originally Posted by Randy Bheites View Post

      People, posts and threads getting "disappeared" for no discernible reason, and then everyone talking about how they can't talk about things.
      Ooh, talking about how I can't talk about things, one of my favorite subjects.

      I missed whatever the drama was, didn't see the wso, didn't know who the person was since it's not allowed to name (except in a special circumstance which I totally missed that drama too), didn't know what the product was, so out of curiosity Pm'd someone to ask what was going on and found out.

      There is a Name and Shame Wall by Mmurtha where you can publicly warn people who have scammed you since you can't publicly name them here. If people want to warn about scammers, just post em there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Dolby
    Randy the message you should take away from this thread is..if you scam you will get caught eventually!
    More so here than probably anywhere else you have people that have been around for a very very long time and know most tricks that people can try!

    Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author Clare Moser
    Thanks for the heads up!
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  • Profile picture of the author Melody
    First of all, this is not a 'public' forum - it is a privately owned website that is OPEN to the public. Big difference there.......

    This is NOT a democratic society here - it is a forum owned and operated by one individual, Allan Says. The rules are not set by a vote - they are pretty much laid down by the one person that a) pays for the bandwidth this site uses and b) ultimately holds the legal and financial responsibility/burden for what is said/written here.

    You are essentially on private property here, Randy - this may be open to the public but this is really not in the truest sense of the word - a public forum that is owned by the public.

    There are rules and regs in place here and we who are members have agreed to abide by those rules in exchange for the privilege of using this forum.

    You may not like the fact that you have to wear a shirt and shoes to go into your favorite bar at the beach for a quick beer - but the sign says 'no shirt, no service' and so you put on your shirt because the owner has the right to have certain rules in place in HIS BUSINESS.

    Like it or not - same thing applies here. Not trying to be rude but as Thomas said - these are the rules here, and calling it unpatriotic is not going to get it changed.

    There is a lot to be learned here - try learning more about us before you condemn us, okay?

    Melody
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  • Profile picture of the author blackhatzen
    There is, without a shadow of a doubt, a new generation of Internet marketers that is currently emerging from the same pool of undue entitlement that has caused many of the world's current economic issues. Their inability to defer gratification and sense that the world owes them some great debt of gratitude for breathing is what separates them from the leaders of the old school. I tell a lot of the younger companies that I work with that technical ingenuity and prowess can only bring you part of the way; at a certain point in time that ancient gear has to kick in and somebody needs to convey value and meaning to someone else in a manner that motivates them towards action. That common and uniquely human bond is so reliant upon developing trusting relationships that when somebody operating under the guises of business is actively dishonest, it puts not only their character, but the character of all who work in their midst in question.

    While I have been generally dismissive of this community for years, my opinion of WF has changed in the last few months. I've been operating and consulting online businesses for a decade and while it is obvious that many of those self-identifying as gurus both here and elsewhere are not, there is an abundance of great business advice that is delivered without any expectations of repayment on this forum. It would be a shame to see something which began with such good intentions and with so many positive, active contributors turn into another internet marketplace regarded as a target for exploitation. I do think that it is important to note that the quality of WSO's that I have read has seemed to decline lately, but that may very well be caused by dilution.

    So I pose a question back to you all, how does an active, self-policing marketplace avoid being trapped into this sort of cycle?

    EDIT: ... or is this, in and of itself, an unreasonable expectation of any market?
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  • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
    Really sad...

    "Oh, how the mighty have fallen!"

    Greed and avarice live on.

    Reminds of the recent case of a mega-million dollar football star who blew it all on a cruel and pointless endeavor.
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  • Profile picture of the author businessmentor
    The WarriorPlus site seems to be down.
    Melody, sent you a PM (not asking you for the name of the person)
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  • Profile picture of the author Melody
    It was not Jeremy - just check back through the posts - someone **cough** gave it away......
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      So true - if you just read the posts on this page you'll know who it is.

      a new generation of Internet marketers that is currently emerging from the same pool of undue entitlement that has caused many of the world's current economic issues. Their inability to defer gratification and sense that the world owes them some great debt of gratitude for breathing is what separates them from the leaders of the old school.
      Well stated.

      Still and all, it seems a rather draconian environment around here. I have a problem with draconian environments. They rankle my all-American life, liberty etc backbone.
      Guess you'll have to be rankled then. The OWNER of the WF has very few rules and those are designed to benefit the forum as a whole. I give you credit at least for not pulling out the old saw about "freedom of speech".

      It's odd to see complaints that we can't talk about problems like this - isn't that what we're doing right now? It's possible this person may try to come back with another identity - but those of us who've seen it happen also know how quickly that new identity is "outed".

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
        So, what I'm hearing from many of you is the following:

        - the rules are the rules
        - the rules are the rules even if they are not articulated
        - the rules are the rules even if they are not applied evenly
        - one of the prime rules is "thou shalt not question the rules"
        - thou shalt especially not question the unwritten rules

        and

        - if I don't like the rules written or otherwise, I can just shut up about it and leave

        Have I got that right, "warriors"? Is that the secret inner circle code around here? Because all I started out with was pointing out that banning someone and then forbidding people to talk about the person banned was, in my opinion, stupid. And that I've noticed a lot of posts disappearing and people talking about not being able to talk about it, which I also think is stupid.

        Suddenly I have people telling me, however politely or not, to take a hike and this is a private forum and no freedom of speech is allowed. And I notice it's pretty much the same people who regularly jump on anyone who has the unmitigated gall to point out the autocratic self-defeating idiocy of having unwritten and/or unevenhanded rules.

        Think about that, people.

        This guy, if he's ripping people off, deserves to be fully outed (so sorry that I missed his screename, which I am completely unfamiliar with, when it was briefly mentioned. My bad, you bet). Thieves need a spotlight shined brightly on them.

        I really fail to understand why saying so is such a taboo and controversial concept. Silencing dissent does nothing but foster a chilling effect on a conversation, and generates an incestuous and unhealthy "group think" mentality that serves no one.
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        • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
          Originally Posted by Randy Bheites View Post

          So, what I'm hearing from many of you is the following:

          - the rules are the rules
          - the rules are the rules even if they are not articulated
          - the rules are the rules even if they are not applied evenly
          - one of the prime rules is "thou shalt not question the rules"
          - thou shalt especially not question the unwritten rules

          and

          - if I don't like the rules written or otherwise, I can just shut up about it and leave

          Have I got that right, "warriors"? Is that the secret inner circle code around here? Because all I started out with was pointing out that banning someone and then forbidding people to talk about the person banned was, in my opinion, stupid. And that I've noticed a lot of posts disappearing and people talking about not being able to talk about it, which I also think is stupid.

          Suddenly I have people telling me, however politely or not, to take a hike and this is a private forum and no freedom of speech is allowed. And I notice it's pretty much the same people who regularly jump on anyone who has the unmitigated gall to point out the autocratic self-defeating idiocy of having unwritten and/or unevenhanded rules.

          Think about that, people.

          This guy, if he's ripping people off, deserves to be fully outed (so sorry that I missed his screename, which I am completely unfamiliar with, when it was briefly mentioned. My bad, you bet). Thieves need a spotlight shined brightly on them.

          I really fail to understand why saying so is such a taboo and controversial concept. Silencing dissent does nothing but foster a chilling effect on a conversation, and generates an incestuous and unhealthy "group think" mentality that serves no one.
          Very erudite, Randy.

          But the thread isn't about YOU.

          So stop hijacking it, and start your own.

          Or Shut Up And Go Away.

          I think that's what everyone is trying to tell you...

          :p

          Buh Bye.
          Signature

          I'm Baaaaaack...
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  • Profile picture of the author twocolor
    Hi Melody and Fellow Warriors ...

    Someone had to stand up. There are many newbies here who are very vulnerable and assume that what is printed and shown is factual.

    I have been a member of the warriors from the very beginning. Somehow my posts disappeared and now are under 160. I have met some awesome folks here and I have also had some unpleasant experiences.

    I just posted earlier in response to seomeone who made website purchases and they have disappeared. He wanted to know what to do.

    I have been there as well. And this particular purchase was from someone who has a high post count. Long story short...I received nothing and it took three months for the person to return my money....just under $400. I never received an apology. I really did expect an email or pm from her at some point but it never came.

    I am still here and I am still buying from warriors. The lesson here is that high post count does not mean that the person has integrity. When there is an issue and it is ignored one can only assume the person does not care.

    We all have challenges in life and I am a very understanding person. I think we can all agree... All it takes is an explanation or a prompt refund.

    Also...many of my requests went unanswered and I posted in the forum if anyone had heard from her and my post was deleted. I had also contacted someone who knew her and received no response. What puzzled me were the nice messages exchanged and a great phone conversation at the very beginning.

    It is wise to ask for an email address. If it is a large purchase I also ask for a telephone number. BTW 2 warriors I purchased from have disappeared and I did not get what I paid for. This has not changed my appreciation for the forum and the wealth of information. I have had great experiences here...and most of the folks here are awesome!

    Thank you,

    Sonia

    P.S. Great to see baby boomers here! I am a young one too..LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Cynthia A.
    Melody,

    I don't know who you're talking about nor did I see the WSO. But you're so right that integrity is all we have. Unfortunately on the Internet where fake names & anonymity is so common, people scam just because they (think) can get away with it. After all, you don't know who they really are. They get busted, they close up shop & re-emerge as someone else. But the sad part is that I hear from so many people who think it's OK - as long as you can make a buck.

    A lower level "Guru" sent a link to an affiliate product which included "income proof via video." But in taking a closer look at the screen shot toward the bottom of the page, I noticed the Clickbank numbers made no sense. I noticed because I receive checks from Clickbank so I know what the payment screen looks like. But someone who's a newbie might not even notice. I immediately unsubscribed from that marketers list because he endorsed the product saying how great it was. Ironically I'd just gotten on his list a few days before.

    Cynthia

    Edit: I actually did see that product but NOT as a WSO. A fellow Warrior sent me several emails about it saying it was about to be sold out. The seller seemed trustworthy because he claimed he learned what he did from Chris Rempel (who I think is a marketer with integrity) & he modeled his site after one of Chris'. I didn't even look at the screenshot.

    Originally Posted by Melody View Post

    This is now a free forum - although many of us did indeed pay to join many moons ago.
    I almost forgot that long ago you had to pay. When I joined (even before my official registration date) I paid to be a member.
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    [WSO]: Learn the The Easiest Way To Get Your Emails OPENED So You Can SELL MORE & MAKE MORE MONEY! Find out here

    Is It Worth The Money?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    lol if anyone can't figure out that it was some richpecker by now....then they truly need help
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  • Profile picture of the author dave830
    Great post to read! Love the conviction about integrity... glad to see there are a lot of "good guys" out there in the biz.

    Oops, sorry Melody, "good girls" too.
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    Push button Optimize Press sites. Create sales, squeeze, and blog sites just like the pros... in 7 minutes. 7MinuteMinisites.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Noel2010
    I read all the posts in this thread but since I didn't see the posts for that deleted WSO, I am not able to form an opinion about this.

    I have purchased a WSO from this person before.
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  • Profile picture of the author Antoniocess
    "I really only have one product my personal integrity." That was great I was never able to put it in those words and I feel you. Thanks now I know how to put it
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  • Profile picture of the author inetwarrior
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author B3n
      Originally Posted by inetwarrior View Post

      It seems strange to me that rickpeck was banned yet Imram Naseem who has also faked his sales figures is still allowed to continue to sell here.

      I find that just amazing.
      I too find it amazing but maybe there is an explanation. When Imran posted fake screenshots he did it on an external site - Rich did it in a WSO.

      It was extremely amusing to see that both made the same mistake; when they were caught out they replaced the fake screenshot with another fake one!

      Gross stupidity
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I believe this post is proof of frustration which comes to you and we when we don't have any rights to tell the whole story and name drop.
        That is not true. The name was given (try reading the thread) - the "story" could be put together yesterday by visiting warriorplus (and that site was available except for a short time yesterday). Those who take the time to learn how to use this forum found out what had happened. Today it's history as the person is totally gone from the WF as he should be.

        This thread is about one specific incident - starting to post complaints about other people who were not involved in this is not a good idea.

        This guy, if he's ripping people off, deserves to be fully outed (so sorry that I missed his screename, which I am completely unfamiliar with, when it was briefly mentioned. My bad, you bet). Thieves need a spotlight shined brightly on them.
        I take it back - you did pull out the old "freedom of speech" argument, didn't you? If you missed his forum name it was because you were busy posting about what your gripes are. The spotlight couldn't have been brighter the past couple days - all the info was online to read (gone now).

        When your focus is only on what you want, what you deserve, what your rights are, what you want to be told, how you want the forum run, etc - sometimes you miss the big picture....and the full story.

        kay
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        Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

        Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
            You see, I'm not worried about someone here calling me a scammer because every customer and blog reader can testify to the opposite.

            I don't know why everyone is beating the drum for rule #1 here...I also think the "Allen could get sued" thing is a tad overrated.

            Posts disappear from here all the time and when you send a support ticket to ask, you get no reply. This place can be like the Bermuda Triangle sometimes.

            "If you don't get in line we'll lock you away."

            This forum has tremendous value, and I don't think anyone is trying to say otherwise. However, in a member moderated forum it seems odd that members aren't really in control of what is allowed and what isn't.
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            • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
              Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen View Post


              This forum has tremendous value, and I don't think anyone is trying to say otherwise. However, in a member moderated forum it seems odd that members aren't really in control of what is allowed and what isn't.
              That's the thing Nathan..

              Members have an amazing amount of control... the reason posts disappear here is because enough members clicked that little red triangle to make it happen..
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              Bare Murkage.........

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              • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
                Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

                That's the thing Nathan..

                Members have an amazing amount of control... the reason posts disappear here is because enough members clicked that little red triangle to make it happen..
                However, there isn't any control over moderation. I mean I could create 20 accounts and start reporting every post I didn't agree with to get them to disappear. There isn't any perfect solution really, I would just like to see more openness and less fear. I'll get over it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
                  Nathan,

                  Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen View Post

                  However, there isn't any control over moderation. I mean I could create 20 accounts and start reporting every post I didn't agree with to get them to disappear. There isn't any perfect solution really, I would just like to see more openness and less fear. I'll get over it.
                  Seriously, what difference does it make? The only thing that bad member moderation affects is really the soap opera shit anyway. The kind of stuff that none of us should be wasting time on to begin with.

                  I felt pretty much the same way you do right now a couple of months ago. I took a step back though and thought for a bit and realized that I was wasting too much time and energy worrying about the way that someone elses site was run or what other peoples opinions were about certain subjects.

                  Without a little bit of restraint this place would be full of spam, hate threads, and other things that would more than likely bog us all down trying to keep up with all the latest dirt.

                  I do understand what you are saying, but like I said, think about it for a minute and hopefully you will see what I'm saying.
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                • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
                  Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen View Post

                  However, there isn't any control over moderation. I mean I could create 20 accounts and start reporting every post I didn't agree with to get them to disappear. There isn't any perfect solution really, I would just like to see more openness and less fear. I'll get over it.
                  Hey Nathon,

                  Yes there is control over the moderation to some degree. Remember? You do have Allen and some Mods/other admins that do watch for the quote "unfairness" that could, and sometimes happens here. Matter of fact, there have been a number of threads that have been reinstated by Allen and his staff since the members moderation took effect.

                  Come on, don't you think that if you created 20 new accounts and started reporting posts like crazy or at will that Allen and his staff wouldn't catch on? He sees more than people will ever give him credit for, so don't under estimate him - ever.

                  Yes, you are right, there ISN't any perfect solution, but what is in place now is the best one we've had here, and will work when people do it correctly, instead of trying to beat the system or complain about it.

                  Fear?? Who is in fear or afraid?

                  The members here are mostly open, and will work to resolve just about evey problem/crisis that's been mentioned here thus far the best they can, and with the means they can/have.

                  The truth is that some members may feel intimidated, but when they take a look at themselves, they will usually find out they have an insecurity problem. That's in their nature, and they need to be the ones to get over it in the end.


                  Hay Melody,

                  Great post kid, and thanks! You spoke the truth, and people don't realize that what you do now will reflect on what happens later!


                  Mary
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                  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
                    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                    Nathan,



                    Seriously, what difference does it make? The only thing that bad member moderation affects is really the soap opera shit anyway. The kind of stuff that none of us should be wasting time on to begin with.

                    I felt pretty much the same way you do right now a couple of months ago. I took a step back though and thought for a bit and realized that I was wasting too much time and energy worrying about the way that someone elses site was run or what other peoples opinions were about certain subjects.

                    Without a little bit of restraint this place would be full of spam, hate threads, and other things that would more than likely bog us all down trying to keep up with all the latest dirt.

                    I do understand what you are saying, but like I said, think about it for a minute and hopefully you will see what I'm saying.
                    Honestly, I don't really care. I'm just offering my opinion and hanging out because I am bored. If people don't like my opinion, that's fine...I could care less. Just my .02, nothing more, nothing less.

                    Originally Posted by mmurtha View Post

                    Hey Nathon,

                    Yes there is control over the moderation to some degree. Remember? You do have Allen and some Mods/other admins that do watch for the quote "unfairness" that could, and sometimes happens here. Matter of fact, there have been a number of threads that have been reinstated by Allen and his staff since the members moderation took effect.

                    Come on, don't you think that if you created 20 new accounts and started reporting posts like crazy or at will that Allen and his staff wouldn't catch on? He sees more than people will ever give him credit for, so don't under estimate him - ever.

                    Is that an order?:confused:

                    Yes, you are right, there ISN't any perfect solution, but what is in place now is the best one we've had here, and will work when people do it correctly, instead of trying to beat the system or complain about it.

                    Fear?? Who is in fear or afraid?

                    The members here are mostly open, and will work to resolve just about evey problem/crisis that's been mentioned here thus far the best they can, and with the means they can/have.

                    The truth is that some members may feel intimidated, but when they take a look at themselves, they will usually find out they have an insecurity problem. That's in their nature, and they need to be the ones to get over it in the end.


                    Mary
                    The fear I'm talking about is of getting sued, of breaking rule #1, hurting people's feelings, etc. Again, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I felt like being honest.

                    People should really relax

                    Also, this thread got off track (thanks Randy!) and I don't want to be the one to blame...I'm out
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  • Profile picture of the author Tenzo
    I'm not sure what would be gained from openly naming someone. While the WSO was live, it had questions and comments about the screenshots. Now that he is banned, why does it matter what his screen name was? If he shows up again he'll be using a different one.

    Looking at a WSO? Ask questions, read reviews, and make a decision. You can't mitigate all risk.

    Best Regards,
    Kevin
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    Wordpress, From Newbie to Jedi...

    Roses are planted where thorns grow,
    And on the barren heath
    Sing the honey bees.
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  • Profile picture of the author 7figurehelper
    Melody what an extensive and heart felt post. In my personal opinion your integrity bleeds through your writing

    I think a lot of times when our back is against the wall OR when we see something that we want so bad that our judgement gets cloudy. Once we have it in our mind that a little compromise is ok, we are headed down the path to destruction.

    I don't know if that happened in this case with this particular individual BUT it is hard to come back from self destruction BECAUSE people are not that forgiving.
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  • Profile picture of the author tylerjaysen
    OMG that is so true....

    The internet is truly a place where the little guy can have a huge impact. If a customer is done wrong by a vendor and not taken care of..that customer can go onto forums like this and write a couple posts and kill that vendors credibility.

    Similarly, the angry person could start a blog and rant and rave about a transaction gone wrong...this blog and its posts get indexed by google and then someone does a search on this vendor and blam...there is the bad review.

    So good post...and very eye-opening
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  • Profile picture of the author Melody
    For those that are complaining about the forum rules - one last point I would like to make: this is one of the few forums where you actually see members posting REAL information. Information that you can actually 'take to the bank', and one of the reasons is because this place hasn't gotten bogged down with personal dog fights and spamming.

    This place is not run the same way it was when I first joined - it is constantly evolving and trust me - there was definitely a reason that this relatively new rule was put into place. Those of us that have been here awhile remember some real doozies......

    It's not a perfect system - but it's still one of the better places to hang out and actually feel like you did something productive while in a forum. I have reams of notes from this place.

    Whether we agree with Allen's rules or not - the bottom line is that HE is paying the bills here - not us (yeah, I know some of us did pay originally - but humor me here).

    Like I said before - this is Allen's BUSINESS - he has more right to call the shots than we do.

    If you are not happy with the 'restrictive' environment, start your own forum and see how long it takes you to get to this level. It ain't gonna happen overnight.

    But, back to the reason for the OP - the 'banned persona' is still ignoring all attempts at communication, and is deleting all posts on his auction that reference his WSO of the product.

    It seems that the attempt to appeal to his conscience have failed......

    Ah well - I still believe in the Easter Bunny too.........

    Melody
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Hangen
      Originally Posted by Melody View Post

      For those that are complaining about the forum rules - one last point I would like to make: this is one of the few forums where you actually see members posting REAL information. Information that you can actually 'take to the bank', and one of the reasons is because this place hasn't gotten bogged down with personal dog fights and spamming.

      This place is not run the same way it was when I first joined - it is constantly evolving and trust me - there was definitely a reason that this relatively new rule was put into place. Those of us that have been here awhile remember some real doozies......

      It's not a perfect system - but it's still one of the better places to hang out and actually feel like you did something productive while in a forum. I have reams of notes from this place.

      Whether we agree with Allen's rules or not - the bottom line is that HE is paying the bills here - not us (yeah, I know some of us did pay originally - but humor me here).

      Like I said before - this is Allen's BUSINESS - he has more right to call the shots than we do.

      If you are not happy with the 'restrictive' environment, start your own forum and see how long it takes you to get to this level. It ain't gonna happen overnight.

      But, back to the reason for the OP - the 'banned persona' is still ignoring all attempts at communication, and is deleting all posts on his auction that reference his WSO of the product.

      It seems that the attempt to appeal to his conscience have failed......

      Ah well - I still believe in the Easter Bunny too.........

      Melody
      I don't think anyone is really too upset...people have different opinions and I'm OK with that, I just wish others were as well. We can't all agree all the time, otherwise no learning would take place here.

      If you find a Utopia, let me know...I'll be sure to come crash the party!
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