Why is the price going up?

109 replies
Nothing turns me off a product quicker than to see the spiel at the end of a sales page. "I can't hold this price for long." or "The price will go up by $100 if you turn off this page" or the worst one of all "this is the only time you will see this offer - ever". I would like to know why? If a product is good surely it can be sold normally and still be there to be bought tomorrow or next month.

Well, I say goodbye to such tactics and forget about it. Some way down the track the same products are likely to come back as freebies or a give away. So what is the point in turning people off by marketing in this way? I know that many so-called gurus use it to extract money from people who have more money than sense when it comes to bargains. But, I would rather know that something is offered for the right price when it is for sale than that the price is attached to a yo-yo to make people buy now.

Obviously many warriors use this tactic because they have learned it at seminars or elsewhere but really is it working? I also am reluctant now to accept so-called free offers because they too are usually tied to this kind of promotion.

So how many people use it and does it work for them?

Norma
#price
  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    They're trying to get ppl to BUY NOW. Don't know if it works, never tried it and don't plan on it. If a product says, price will go up in 24 hours, I don't buy it, cause I feel I'm being deceived which of course nobody likes to feel deceived. I've seen sites that always say price is only good for today-going up tomorrow-but it says that everyday.
    Signature

    siggy taking a break...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754792].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
    Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

    Nothing turns me off a product quicker than to see the spiel at the end of a sales page. "I can't hold this price for long." or "The price will go up by $100 if you turn off this page" or the worst one of all "this is the only time you will see this offer - ever". I would like to know why? If a product is good surely it can be sold normally and still be there to be bought tomorrow or next month.

    Well, I say goodbye to such tactics and forget about it. Some way down the track the same products are likely to come back as freebies or a give away. So what is the point in turning people off by marketing in this way? I know that many so-called gurus use it to extract money from people who have more money than sense when it comes to bargains. But, I would rather know that something is offered for the right price when it is for sale than that the price is attached to a yo-yo to make people buy now.

    Obviously many warriors use this tactic because they have learned it at seminars or elsewhere but really is it working? I also am reluctant now to accept so-called free offers because they too are usually tied to this kind of promotion.

    So how many people use it and does it work for them?

    Norma
    This tactic will be used for as long as the results are good. This sense of urgency seems to work most of the time, it may turn you off because you do IM for a living. The average consumer will usually give in and bite at the offer.
    Signature

    " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754793].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by Magic Mel View Post

      This tactic will be used for as long as the results are good. This sense of urgency seems to work most of the time, it may turn you off because you do IM for a living. The average consumer will usually give in and bite at the offer.
      They will for sure, once or maybe twice but then they will blacklist the marketer as I have done many times. The chances of repeat business is gone with the offer. Better to have good customers with smiles on their faces then with poor souls who have bitten the dust because they run out of money trusting the scammers. What good is a product that has such a short life?

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754848].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
        It's a bad scarcity tactic for me, I'm sure if the people who use them, put their minds to it they could think of another reason to cry scarcity instead of the price factor.
        Signature

        Owner bestfivereviewed.com

        Started this stuff 2009. Time is what will teach you the skills you need.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754857].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        They will for sure, once or maybe twice but then they will blacklist the marketer as I have done many times. The chances of repeat business is gone with the offer. Better to have good customers with smiles on their faces then with poor souls who have bitten the dust because they run out of money trusting the scammers. What good is a product that has such a short life?

        Norma
        Hi Norma,

        I understand how you feel. I personally don't use these tactics, some do and some don't. I just gave a reason why some might use it

        Cheers,
        Magic
        Signature

        " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754875].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        They will for sure, once or maybe twice but then they will blacklist the marketer as I have done many times.
        High five, Girlfriend!

        I've blacklisted enough for a small novel...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754908].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jeff Henshaw
          The IM 'establishment' say that these tactics do work. So I assume that they have done the testing and they do work.

          I wonder in my own mind how successful they really are in the wider context? In non IM niches, I'll bet that they are very very effective. With regard to newbies, raw to the IM scene, probably just as effective. For the more experienced IMer however, some may feel as I have expressed in the next paragraph:

          Personally for me, these techniques just turn me off - it's all old hat as far as I am concerned. Even though I have never used them myself. As the original poster implied, no matter what offer is made, the same or a better one will appear in the near future.

          Still, upon reflection, if they are genuinely increasing sales, then perhaps I need to think again about my attitude towards these tactics.

          Regards,
          Jeff.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755026].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author bryce
            Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw View Post


            Still, upon reflection, if they are genuinely increasing sales, then perhaps I need to think again about my attitude towards these tactics.

            Regards,
            Jeff.
            I guess this is only a necessity if you buy into what is labelled "the establishment" - Personally I hold no more respect for these self-professed individuals than anyone else. I don't believe these tactics work for the mainstream, and if they do anywhere, it will only be with people who are gullible. The consensus is right, other better products do come along eery day

            In fact in closing, I just set up a new site promoting WP-Padlock and I remember that the original sales page had the words "This price for the next 20 orders" - and I deleted it!

            Regards
            Bryce
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762442].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Scott Moody
    This tactic is trying to use Scarcity in an attempt to have you buy it now!

    I am personally sick of the Scarcity tactic on info products. Scarcity works fine for a physical product, I mean if you only have 10 widgets left, and when they are gone, they are gone.

    On the other hand, I can understand a limited time (day, week, month, etc) price offer or a OTO (one time offer), but page count down with 19:59 and the offer is gone forever. It will start working less and less as more people use the tactic.

    It's like all gimmick methods, the more they are used, the less they work.

    How about adding real VALUE (the corporate word of 2009 it seems) for the price you are charging. Try it, you'll like it or at least your customers will.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754820].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by rsmoody View Post

      This tactic is trying to use Scarcity in an attempt to have you buy it now!

      I am personally sick of the Scarcity tactic on info products. Scarcity works fine for a physical product, I mean if you only have 10 widgets left, and when they are gone, they are gone.

      On the other hand, I can understand a limited time (day, week, month, etc) price offer or a OTO (one time offer), but page count down with 19:59 and the offer is gone forever. It will start working less and less as more people use the tactic.

      It's like all gimmick methods, the more they are used, the less they work.

      How about adding real VALUE (the corporate word of 2009 it seems) for the price you are charging. Try it, you'll like it or at least your customers will.
      I agree ... Value and Quality mean a great deal.

      Hi Norma.. Long time no see

      And yes it is a tactic to get you to "Buy Now", personally if I say I am going to raise the price then trust your bank account I will. If I say it will never be offered again then trust your wallet it never will.

      I am not into hype but I like to tell it like it is... If it makes the sales then great, if it dont then fine and move onto something else because if I set a date or time then that is the date or time for the offer.

      I recently seen an offer for a product for $2.20 with a price increase of a few cents in 30 minutes -- ok to begin with this has devalued the product so much that I have no interest in it.

      My point though about this product is this. I said hmm interesting timer, let me wait 30 minutes just to see if the price did increase. Well the price did, so I closed the browser and cleared all cookies and went back -- Guess What ?? It was back to $2.20

      Did I buy the product ? No .. no interest in a product that a marketer has to use tactics to lie to get sales. The product must not have any value or quality because if it did then the marketer would know better than to sell it with such tactics.

      Just my 2 pennies......

      James
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755364].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
        Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

        I agree ... Value and Quality mean a great deal.

        Hi Norma.. Long time no see

        And yes it is a tactic to get you to "Buy Now", personally if I say I am going to raise the price then trust your bank account I will. If I say it will never be offered again then trust your wallet it never will.

        I am not into hype but I like to tell it like it is... If it makes the sales then great, if it dont then fine and move onto something else because if I set a date or time then that is the date or time for the offer.

        I recently seen an offer for a product for $2.20 with a price increase of a few cents in 30 minutes -- ok to begin with this has devalued the product so much that I have no interest in it.

        My point though about this product is this. I said hmm interesting timer, let me wait 30 minutes just to see if the price did increase. Well the price did, so I closed the browser and cleared all cookies and went back -- Guess What ?? It was back to $2.20

        Did I buy the product ? No .. no interest in a product that a marketer has to use tactics to lie to get sales. The product must not have any value or quality because if it did then the marketer would know better than to sell it with such tactics.

        Just my 2 pennies......

        James
        Hi James,

        Nice to hear from you too. I have been going flat out on my Mall building it up, doing the necessary and now I am getting ready to do articles again. Problem is a bit of burn out has left me with not much incentive to write. Give me a few days and I will be back into it - hopefully. Thought a few trips into the forum here might inspire me.

        btw. I got wore out doing Kevin Riley's workshop lol. Feel like I haven't graduated yet as I keep going back for refresher course.

        God bless

        Norma
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755451].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
          Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

          Hi James,

          Nice to hear from you too. I have been going flat out on my Mall building it up, doing the necessary and now I am getting ready to do articles again. Problem is a bit of burn out has left me with not much incentive to write. Give me a few days and I will be back into it - hopefully. Thought a few trips into the forum here might inspire me.

          btw. I got wore out doing Kevin Riley's workshop lol. Feel like I haven't graduated yet as I keep going back for refresher course.

          God bless

          Norma
          Yeah it's been a real busy year thus far .. Never seem to have enough time in the day.. For instance I know you are still waiting on that interview from me, sorry.

          So hopefully when you get a little bit of fresh air I can send on over something, I think I still got your PM.

          Will be nice to see ya around though so hurry up and give me some more of those great articles, your a very talented writer and I just love to read over your articles. Plus authors have their own RSS Feeds now to so that will help spread the word on new articles as I have been submitting authors feeds myself to rss directories from time to time..

          James
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755481].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754826].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jimh1626
    I hate them also. I think all of us know it is BS. I also hate the WSO's that have one price for the first 10 then a different price for the next ten and so on.
    I just move on with those too.

    Jim
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754903].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author duality32
    Or what about those websites that offer it once, then you click no thanks, then they offer it again at a lower price? Whats up with that? Are they that hard up?
    Signature

    Coding these games right now
    Zombie Corps
    Ninja Killaz
    Pimp-Hand
    Bros
    Mono D

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754948].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by duality32 View Post

      Or what about those websites that offer it once, then you click no thanks, then they offer it again at a lower price? Whats up with that? Are they that hard up?
      Too true. They try to make out you are only getting a reduced version of the scam but what you are being offered is another way to fill up their bank account. It looks like most people have woken up to the adage that 'act in haste repent in leisure' definitely applies here.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[754997].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Gabe77
      Originally Posted by duality32 View Post

      Or what about those websites that offer it once, then you click no thanks, then they offer it again at a lower price? Whats up with that? Are they that hard up?
      Oh boy, I hate this tactic. I've seen this in several sales page after hitting no twice, thrice, etc. I think it's unfair to the customer who pay the full price because he/she could've gotten the same deal at a lesser price.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755512].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Anomaly1974
      Originally Posted by duality32 View Post

      Or what about those websites that offer it once, then you click no thanks, then they offer it again at a lower price? Whats up with that? Are they that hard up?
      One time offers that you only see a few times ... LOL It does seem rather ludicrous ... and all it convinced me to do was keep clicking "No" to see how low the price would drop. The most I have seen to date is Four "Special Limited One Time Offers" for one product.

      Too much hype, not enough substance for me personally but it does seem to work for some people in some niches.

      For me? It irritates me almost as much as the sales for products ... that lead you to other products that you "have to purchase" in order for the guarantee on the first item you purchased to be "validated". (Of course, without such "exceptions" being duly noted ANYWHERE on the sales page ... even after further reviews)
      Signature

      Yes I really am giving away homes and vacation packages in the Philippines. Ask me if you want to know more.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[765738].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gargoyle
    I hate people that use this tactic. Most of them are scammers and are not thinking about repeat business. They learn this from those seminars. As you said, if you find a bargain today it should be available at that price the next day or next month. Maybe through someone else.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755060].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author michellegreen
      As long as they find hoards of people at seminars running to the back of the room to get in before they "miss out", then IMers will continue to use it. They're successfully creating a sense of urgency.

      Those of us who hate it only do so only because we know it's usually a load of rubbish! ;-)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755121].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    The bottom line is having a list of people who know you offer only good products, no BS, no scam and no urgency to buy. I would rather have a list of say 50 of those kind of people than one of 10,000 who are only there because their clickn finger missed the delete button.

    The oft repeated claim that the money is in the list surely is not a come in spinner invitation to newbies to loose their shirt. We should respect and protect our would be clients so they will think and talk well about us and return often to see what we offer not shy away as though they are going to get burned. Isn't it better if they look forward to a newsletter or offer than scams showing up everywhere.

    We all read the same spiels about how to compose an e-book in 3 easy lessons or get a software component to do it for us and then sell it for heaps of money even though the author might not know a thing about the subject. The only way the creators can sell most of them is by using these tactics - God help the newbies.

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755348].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author marketopoly
    Using scarcity tactics, in any field, could come at a price. Whilst it may increase immediate sales in areas other than Internet Marketing, I feel it does not augur well if you are endeavoring to build up a long term relationship with the buyer.

    This is particularly so when the same, or a similar product, is offered at a reduced price (or even for free) at a later date.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755372].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AlbertF
    You know whats even more ridiculous? Those 10 minutes timers that say if you don't purchase now. It is just funny to see, because it just shows how desperate the seller is.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755521].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Actually, sometimes it's true!

      I had put Building A Home-Based Business With The Product Creation Lab Private Workshop on sale for its debut at $295, and I warned that it would go up to $395 (after all, there are production costs as this is a big physical product). Then, I sent out a warning last week that the price was going up at midnight EST on April 30. Right after midnight, I changed the price and it will never, ever go down again.

      Prior to summer, it will go up to where it belongs - over $500.

      The important thing is, if you say you're going to be increasing the price by a certain time, you must do it. Stick by your word and there's nothing scammy or underhanded about it.


      BTW, just before the price went up, there was a rush of last minute sales.
      Signature
      Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755562].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Graham Maddison
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Actually, sometimes it's true!

        I had put Building A Home-Based Business With The Product Creation Lab Private Workshop on sale for its debut at $295, and I warned that it would go up to $395 (after all, there are production costs as this is a big physical product). Then, I sent out a warning last week that the price was going up at midnight EST on April 30. Right after midnight, I changed the price and it will never, ever go down again.

        Prior to summer, it will go up to where it belongs - over $500.

        The important thing is, if you say you're going to be increasing the price by a certain time, you must do it. Stick by your word and there's nothing scammy or underhanded about it.


        BTW, just before the price went up, there was a rush of last minute sales.
        The problem is that whilst there are "Genuine Offers" out there such as Kevin's, a lot of marketers will see this as a green light to exploit the idea of using ficticious time sensitive price increase tactics.

        I myself when I first started out was gullible enough to fall for these on more than one occasion. So I guess whilst there are gullible people out there, the practise will continue.

        I will say however, that once I realize I have been caught i will not purchase anything from such people again. So in the long run, it is their loss.

        Graham
        Signature
        Trade without Boundaries.
        Start with $30 Trading Bonus.
        No Deposit Required
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755597].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    I say..."Don't change it if it's not broken."

    The reason most copywriters use scare tactics and the reason most IMers want these scare tactics incorporated into their sales letter is because it works!

    It's kind of like those close out sales at Macy's. You know they'll have another sales in a couple of months, but you still anticipate being their bright and early in the morning to get the first discount picks in your size.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755571].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Christie Love View Post

      I say..."Don't change it if it's not broken."

      The reason most copywriters use scare tactics and the reason most IMers want these scare tactics incorporated into their sales letter is because it works!

      It's kind of like those close out sales at Macy's. You know they'll have another sales in a couple of months, but you still anticipate being their bright and early in the morning to get the first discount picks in your size.

      Do I detect someone here that actually uses these Scarcity tactics ??
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755574].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Myheavens
    I hate them also. I think all of us know it is BS. I also hate the WSO's that have one price for the first 10 then a different price for the next ten and so on.
    Signature
    I have launched New WordPress theme's Themelocation
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755576].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      I think as both buyers and sellers we are trained to use and react to scarcity.

      Just about any "real" store on the planet uses scarcity to an extent and as consumers, what do we do? We line up at the door to purchase that Nintendo Wii before noon so that we can get $20 off.

      As buyers online we all have a choice to make. We can buy it right now and save some money or we can think about it and pay full price tomorrow.

      If someone is using tactics that you don't like whether then be sales tactics, email tactics, or other tactics, you certainly have the right not to do business with them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755592].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    I personally don't mind the tactic, but I hate it when the price doesn't really go up and the calendar count down just resets. Stupid. If you are promoting scarcity, stick by your guns.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755626].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by Graham Maddison

    I myself when I first started out was gullible enough to fall for these on more than one occasion. So I guess whilst there are gullible people out there, the practise will continue.

    I will say however, that once I realize I have been caught i will not purchase anything from such people again. So in the long run, it is their loss.
    That's the point. Its the very thing I am talking about. People who use these tactics to make some quick money are cheating themselves.

    Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

    The important thing is, if you say you're going to be increasing the price by a certain time, you must do it. Stick by your word and there's nothing scammy or underhanded about it.
    The difference with you Kevin is that people know you and the quality of your offers. That doesn't mean that we can all afford to buy your offers so we miss out big time when the price rises. Like with the Aussie dollar fluctuating as much as it is right now I can't sign up for anything that is a recurring charge because I don't know how much it will be in a month's time. Right now everything is one third dearer than in $US,

    Enjoyed your Traffic Building course by the way but, as I said above, still going back to refresh on some points.

    God bless

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755795].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

      That doesn't mean that we can all afford to buy your offers so we miss out big time when the price rises.
      Yeah, sorry about that. One reason I kept the price down longer than I had planned to.
      Signature
      Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[755798].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author terrapurus
    Most of the replies here are right. But the stategy of scarcity has been around even before the internet was a glint in some geeks eye.

    Scarcity works - it is just that this stategy is known to you and you are jaded by the concept from over exposure. But most buyers dont read or thinkg about marketing the way you do.

    Buyers are emotional and that is what the strategy is geared towards - but this now that will solve your problem. Buy buy it NOW, otherwise you may miss out and you will continue to experience the pain you feel.

    But even though you are jaded, I am going to guess you still fall for this timeless strategy. Now you probably shouted... NO! But look around your house. Have you never bought ANYTHING on sale? Have you never thought ... thats a great buy, I had better get some before they sell out? Of course you have ....

    Now scarcity can also be linked to quality. After all we all want to buy nice things don't we? Quality is implied quality and the value the buyer attaches to it. Do you honestly think that a $12000 Rolex is built 100 times better than a seiko for $120? After all $120 will buy you a very nice watch that will last for decades. But only few people (relatively speaking) buy Rolexes. Scarcity is used as a sign of wealth and influence, even if what they are buying is crap.

    So yes, scarcity works. Just think like a buyer when using it instead of a jaded marketer.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[756361].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheCren
    Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

    I would like to know why? If a product is good surely it can be sold normally and still be there to be bought tomorrow or next month.
    Not always. When coaching is involved a person can only "hand-hold" so many people at a time. I've seen some people who did what you're saying and left a coaching program open to everyone - he got overwhelmed and many customers were very dissatisfied with the result. It's enough to destroy a person's name in the marketplace.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[756372].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    a wise man once said... there are no stupid questions

    I beg to differ this is one thats plainly stupid... you know the answer Norma it works like gangbusters...

    Its not just in IM its every where, in your local shops, newspapers department stores

    buy one get one free
    special sale offer buy one get one half price for as long as the offer runs etc etc

    coupon codes, half price summer sale, look inside for a money back offer

    the list goes on, if you dont like marketing go do something else and stop asking stupid questions

    Robert

    PS: I even slept on it before i answered this, i just knew it would be a controversal answer.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[756384].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Oo..er.

      I think I may have to agree with Mr P.

      Scarcity, rarity, limited editions etc - this is a concept that is a marketing staple and has been used since selling began.

      Because it works. It appeals to a basic part of the human psyche as anyone who has ever bought anything in a sale or on special offer can testify.

      We shouldn't really need to be debating this point.

      To be fair to the OP, Norma was referring to the standard "I can't hold this price for long" spiel, but that just means marketers need to be constantly creative and imaginative as to how they incorporate the scarcity tactic into their sales.

      Several posters in this thread have wrongly used the word "scam" to describe what is usually just lazy marketing.



      Frank
      Signature
      TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[756514].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
    I thought you were going to say something else, Norma.

    I'm always baffled when I see a "buy now or else" message that states the product is running out.

    ? What ? It's digital.

    The only digital product that would "run out" are those that are best served if they are restricted to a certain distribution level, like secrets to getting past a particular roadblock in internet marketing - that would be severely useless if too many people knew about it.

    Other than that, how does a digital product run out? It sits on your server, people buy, it gets downloaded. Once it's set up, there's nothing for you to do but keep the site and product active - which takes what? A $9 per year URL registration and perhaps $5 a month hosting? You don't even have to do any maintenance (except maybe if the site links fail or something) unless you just don't want the hassles of customer service when problems arise.

    I quite understand the logic behind timing a sale. It's like going into Wallmart (I don't but many do) and hearing about a sale at the other end of the store that ends in 10 minutes. People stampede to get to the stall before the deadline.

    All I would say is, at least make the countdown "sound" valid. Your product isn't likely to "run out". And if you're planning to increase the price, at least give a believable reason. ie: the obvious reason being that you want to test the market to see how well your product will do, without having to wait months for results. But to say you "can't hold the price much longer", why not? Are you desperate to cover the hosting fees?

    Maybe you're only planning to spend a certain amount of time marketing this particular product and then will just shut it down. You have other, more exciting things in the offing. If that's the truth, it sounds much more valid.

    If it's a new product, just let people know it's in the launch stage and therefore being offered at a lower "introductory" price - I think most people can grasps that concept much better than that you are somehow under pressure to raise the price. It only leaves questions. What will happen to YOU if you don't raise the price, and why should I care? Either you have a good product or you don't. If it's good, I cannot see any reason why you would feel pressured to increase the price, other than perhaps a spendthrift spouse.

    Let's face it... in the end, it's all just lies, lies, lies!

    Sylvia

    PS: Gee, I sure hope people get my sense of humor!
    Signature
    :: Got a dog? Visit my blog. Dog Talk Weekly
    :: Writing, Audio Transcription Services? - Award-winning Journalist is taking new projects. Warrior Discounts!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[756490].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
    Selling something based on scarcity is a viable strategy, selling it based on false scarcity can backfire and earn a reputation as a questionable seller. Kevin is right, if you say the price is going up... make it go up.

    Deceptive sales techniques may work in the short term, but as an overall part of a sales strategy will usually result in damaging the reputation of the seller and the product.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[756734].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by MarkWrites View Post

      Selling something based on scarcity is a viable strategy, selling it based on false scarcity can backfire and earn a reputation as a questionable seller. Kevin is right, if you say the price is going up... make it go up.

      Deceptive sales techniques may work in the short term, but as an overall part of a sales strategy will usually result in damaging the reputation of the seller and the product.
      You got it Mark. Physical products that are produced in factories where resources are low or manufacture has declined or something else has happened to bring on a scarcity are far different to digital products that have an eternal life and, as Sylvia said, bunging the price up simply because you can and then create a false sense of scarcity is what it is LIES.

      It might work and it does for many money grabbing gurus who have no feelings for their fellow man but in the long run they are not attracting loyal long term dedicated followers. It is also the reason why many get fed up with the false promises and fail to pursue their interests in IM.

      Buyers are emotional and less careful with money when they have it but their memory of being done in because someone wants a larger bank balance never wanes. Personally I cannot use this tactic because it is dishonest and nor could I send emails to people written by someone else who claims they have earned thousands overnight.

      Lets get real. Grabbing money simply because you can by playing on the emotions of others is dishonest. I don't deal with those kind of people and certainly don't buy from them.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758128].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Hi Norma

        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        Physical products that are produced in factories where resources are low or manufacture has declined or something else has happened to bring on a scarcity are far different to digital products that have an eternal life and, as Sylvia said, bunging the price up simply because you can and then create a false sense of scarcity is what it is LIES.
        Eternal life?

        Digital products only have an eternal life if the product creator wants them to. There's no obligation on a publisher to make any product available for ever.

        Consider. A new CD by an up and coming band gets released in a limited edition case or with an extra track. There's an initial run of, say, 2,500 units for this special issue. Now Sony or Universal could just as easily manufacture a million of these, but they're creating scarcity and stimulating demand for their product. That's their prerogative as licence holders for that product. Would you call that cheating?

        As a product creator, you have control over content, price, launch date and availability. Why shouldn't a marketer use any or all of these legitimate variables for the purpose of selling more units?

        If a publisher wants to restrict distribution of a digital product, who are you or anyone else to say no - it must be available indefinitely? As a consumer, you either buy into the offer or you don't.

        I'm certainly not advocating lying in sales copy - saying a product is limited to a certain number, then reneging on that. But it's just as valid to use scarcity or limited availability as part of the marketing mix for a digital product as it would be for any physical one.


        Frank
        Signature
        TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758255].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kesh247
    It's just to create "urgency". Most people will not buy your product straight away if you do not create a sense of urgency on your sales page. Generally people tend to procrastinate, so creating that urgency makes some of them to take action.

    I mean you can't be everything to everybody if you know what I mean. Some people will not like it, and some don't mind.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758141].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by Kesh247 View Post

      It's just to create "urgency". Most people will not buy your product straight away if you do not create a sense of urgency on your sales page. Generally people tend to procrastinate, so creating that urgency makes some of them to take action.

      I mean you can't be everything to everybody if you know what I mean. Some people will not like it, and some don't mind.
      That does not make it right. I watched a program the other night on illegal logging in the Amazon. All the loggers want is money and they have even murdered for it while the whole world suffers the climate change that lack of forests is creating. Nothing makes money grabbing right. Drug pushers do the same thing. So do many others.

      Just because the Internet is seen as a way to make money, and it is, doesn't mean it should become another vice for the rest of us. It can be done legitimately and people given a fair go. Make less give more and help others rather than exploit them is a far better way to go in my book.

      Almost anyone can create an e-book or service, generate great hype and urgency about it and fill it full of wind but what good does it do them in the long run. Lets get the genuine service providers, knowledge experts and successful marketers to set the pace.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758174].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
        This tactic is perfect for IM...

        Depending on the author of the product, some can easily command the highest rates for a limited time and the reason is simple.

        A week or two in IM can be an eternity, and the best products and strategies can produce explosive results in the beginning, but once the "secret" is out, these methods will quickly loose their effectiveness due to over saturation.

        For certain marketers products, jumping in quick is a no-brainer.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758208].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        ... on illegal logging in the Amazon.
        I wonder how many other people here had to read that
        line a few times before it's real meaning became clear.
        Signature

        We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.
        ~ Milton Friedman

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775370].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
          Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

          I wonder how many other people here had to read that
          line a few times before it's real meaning became clear.
          Yes, sorry John I guess that may not have been too clear a reference. I had watched a program documenting the murder of a nun in Brazil because she was reporting incidences of illegal logging. The rain forest is coming down some 20 square miles a day thanks to illegal loggers and others.

          While the world suffers the consequences of having the lungs of the world disabled by those whose sole concern is lining their own pockets the perpetrators of the murder got less than a year in jail and are now back to logging. Its interesting, too, that they are all into religion.

          The analogy is that while people rush to make money we need too think about the ultimate cost and the effect on others? I am not suggesting that IM's are killing anyone but making the point that we should be more aware of how we hurt others if by forcing up our own bank accounts without returning value for what we sell then we are killing off the Internet marketing side of things.

          The world is a big place and the population is enormous but the current economic situation proves that money is extremely vulnerable and that it is certainly not everything. There are better things in life.

          Norma
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775561].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
            Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

            Yes, sorry John I guess that may not have been too clear a reference.
            Thanks for the clarification Norma.

            I feel bad though because all I meant was... when I first read that sentence my brain instantly saw 'logging' as 'logging in'... and 'Amazon' as 'amazon.com'. I had to reread it a few times before I understood that you were talking about something in the 'real' world. And then I wondered if anyone else experienced the same thing.

            Sorry I wasn't clearer and that you had to waste your time responding to me.

            Kindly,
            John
            Signature

            We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.
            ~ Milton Friedman

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775632].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    It's a scarcity tactic that creates urgency and it works. That's why people use it. To not use scarcity is like saying, "Sure, I don't mind making half the sales I could make."

    You use what's proven to work and that's that.

    Sometimes you just can't think of things with opinions because it'll kill your cash flow.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758190].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hangtimenino
    Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post


    Well, I say goodbye to such tactics and forget about it. Some way down the track the same products are likely to come back as freebies or a give away. So what is the point in turning people off by marketing in this way?

    So how many people use it and does it work for them?

    Norma
    What an awefull feeling it would be if you find out, that the same product you bought for a certain amount, is being given away , by the same seller, at half the price, or worst - for FREE!. I've never experienced it yet,and i am doing evrything to avoid it. I think i could say im a good bargain hunter, and i also know when to buy a product at its regular price. With the recession going on, people are holding on more to their money.. so i think this tactic is slowly dying..:-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758252].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by hangtimenino View Post

      What an awefull feeling it would be if you find out, that the same product you bought for a certain amount, is being given away , by the same seller, at half the price, or worst - for FREE!. I've never experienced it yet,and i am doing evrything to avoid it. I think i could say im a good bargain hunter, and i also know when to buy a product at its regular price. With the recession going on, people are holding on more to their money.. so i think this tactic is slowly dying..:-)
      Yes, well it is probably a lot worse for the seller. He has to excuse his reasoning in putting up the price in the first place and why it is now not worth anything like what he/she was selling it for. Would you be willing to deal with him/her again?

      Its about about protecting your image as much as doing the right thing by people. Sell something for less than what you think it is worth and you will get a lot more people interested than otherwise. If you then put the price up make sure people know that it is because it has become more valuable. As I said above intellectual property is valuable but garbage is junk.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762045].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    When I introduced my product, I sold it to warriors at the lowest price ever. The wso ended and it went to its normal price. Many people have busy lives. They may intend to come back to your offer, but almost never do. Car salesmen know this, so does almost everyone in retail. Just because you know that people are almost guaranteed not to come back and induce them with a line to create a sense of urgency does not make you a bad person. Really, it doesn't.

    TomG.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758268].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      When I introduced my product, I sold it to warriors at the lowest price ever. The wso ended and it went to its normal price. Many people have busy lives. They may intend to come back to your offer, but almost never do. Car salesmen know this, so does almost everyone in retail. Just because you know that people are almost guaranteed not to come back and induce them with a line to create a sense of urgency does not make you a bad person. Really, it doesn't.

      TomG.
      Tommy, I know that. Intellectual property is worth money and people should be entitled to charge what they feel its worth. My question is not aimed at people like yourself who are legitimate in their offers. It is targeted at those who, in ignorance of the facts, are wildly buying goods because they see this spiel of 'buy now because the price is going up' and then it doesn't (sometimes it actually comes down) or 'you will never see this page again ever.'

      These are gimmicky tactics that are playing on the vulnerability of people desperate to discover a way to make money and/or succeed online and who, having parted with their limited cash, find they have been duped, well and truly.

      The promoters of such tactics are those who are really making huge sums of money and leaving the suckers to their fate.

      God bless

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758355].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
        I personally only use the scarcity tactic with physical products, like when I float out X units at $X dollars to one of my email lists for a special promo (I actually did that just this afternoon).

        It simply doesn't feel right to do that with digital products. As already pointed out, "only X left at this price!" when you're talking a download is pretty lame.

        Here's the interesting thing - if I say on a blog, for example, "I'm gonna let 10 of these go for only $99.95", and then STICK TO THAT NUMBER, publicly turning people down after the 10 or whatever are gone, then the weirdest thing happens - people buy the units at the regular price at accelerated rates.

        Weird, huh? Suddenly not being able to get it on sale creates a mad craving for the item. It's like the word "no" is catnip. Must. Have. Widget!

        BTW, I don't deal with the IM niche. Your mileage may vary.
        Signature
        have a great day

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758414].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ebizstrategies
          I have been reading this thread and getting a real chuckle from the difference in opinions about OTO's

          Let's see, yes...it's a sales technique that EVERYONE uses. I.E. You drive in to town, you go to Walmart / Costco and as soon you walk in there, right there is front of you is 56" plasma tv 50% off.

          Now you weren't there for a plasma tv, you're there for diapers and soap. BUT, because of this absolute bargain, knowing that Costco / Walmart gets so many customers that this item will sell out fast you start to think about as you actually have thought about upgrading your old TV but just not yet.

          What do you do??? If you leave, go home, talk it over with the spouse and return to buy it only to find that the numbers of units available are now SOLD OLD.

          In reality, you have now been violated as a OTO Victim.

          Ok, ok, ok, let's say that you return and they have not sold out. But, guess what, you returned to buy it BECAUSE it's ON SALE!!!

          If it wouldn't have been on sale, it wouldn't have caught your eye, you wouldn't have returned, you wouldn't be buying it!

          Just a thought...
          Signature

          Dean A. Markham, President / CEO - Monument Commercial Insurance Agency
          Where Customer Service Isn't a Department, It's An Attitude :: compare insurance quotes ::

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758685].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author bryce
            Originally Posted by ebizstrategies View Post

            I have been reading this thread and getting a real chuckle from the difference in opinions about OTO's

            Let's see, yes...it's a sales technique that EVERYONE uses. I.E. You drive in to town, you go to Walmart / Costco and as soon you walk in there, right there is front of you is 56" plasma tv 50% off.

            Now you weren't there for a plasma tv, you're there for diapers and soap. BUT, because of this absolute bargain, knowing that Costco / Walmart gets so many customers that this item will sell out fast you start to think about as you actually have thought about upgrading your old TV but just not yet.

            What do you do??? If you leave, go home, talk it over with the spouse and return to buy it only to find that the numbers of units available are now SOLD OLD.

            In reality, you have now been violated as a OTO Victim.

            Ok, ok, ok, let's say that you return and they have not sold out. But, guess what, you returned to buy it BECAUSE it's ON SALE!!!

            If it wouldn't have been on sale, it wouldn't have caught your eye, you wouldn't have returned, you wouldn't be buying it!

            Just a thought...
            Agreed but as mentioned already, this tactic is common with "physical" goods. It is even accepted. But it doesnt have the same flavour with informational products and Internet Marketing.

            Not too often will you see Walmart say "Offer only available for the next 20 sales" or "Expires in 24 mnutes and 17 seconds".

            and "We dont all use this tactic" as your post suggests. It (the tactic) and others like it - make me beleive that even the seller doesnt think the product is worth what the asking price is!

            Just my 2 cents
            Bryce
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762457].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
          Originally Posted by dangmyun View Post

          I don't understand,

          What system or product everybody talking about?

          What price are they talking about?

          Its all about marketing products with claims that the price will rise if you don't buy it there and then. As most digital products are copies of so many others who have gone before and many are just junk the pressure to buy is what's under the microscope.

          Norma
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[768465].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dangercart
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758373].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by dangercart View Post

      I guess it's used so much because it works really well.

      I'm not a fan of it myself but you can't blame people for using everything they got to make a sale these days.
      Yes, you can. Why is a sale more important than dealing honestly with people.

      In my years of marketing Real Estate many salesmen would bluff their way into getting someone to sign a contract no matter what. They promised everything the buyer wanted to hear and then some. Result. Many pulled out before the contracts were finalised. Salesmen who used these tactics got nothing and their sales rating was poor.

      I went to extremes to match people to exactly what they wanted, no matter what it took by way of effort on my part. If I did not have what they wanted I told them so and if something did not match their expectations I refused to sell it to them. Result. My sales shot through the roof and I won every sales competition in every Company I worked in.

      The point is give people what they want and don't BS them by forcing a sale no matter what. It can severely backfire. Selling is a wonderful occupation when done honestly.

      God bless

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758473].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    There's all too many "jump on the bandwagon" types.

    "If it works for them it will work for me."

    The bottom line is different selling strategies work differently in different markets and with different products. (Like how many times I can use "different" in a sentence?) Applying a "blanket" strategy to "selling" is pure and simple ignorance.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by ebizstrategies

    Ok, ok, ok, let's say that you return and they have not sold out. But, guess what, you returned to buy it BECAUSE it's ON SALE!!!
    That would be an interesting analogy of the problem except that the product was still there when you returned. In other words you had time to think about it and consult someone. I am talking about products that give you seconds to decide to spend on something you know nothing about and probably will never use even it it happened to be usable in the first place.
    Originally Posted by Brian Tayler

    The bottom line is different selling strategies work differently in different markets and with different products. (Like how many times I can use "different" in a sentence?) Applying a "blanket" strategy to "selling" is pure and simple ignorance.
    I don't get your point Brian. One's honesty shouldn't change even if the strategy does. If the product is worthwhile people will return to buy it. I mean I do.

    I am about to buy a $300 product I have been pondering over for a few weeks. But the price hasn't gone up. There is no threat to withdraw it and frankly I can't wait to get it. Meanwhile I have been able to research it and even try out a similar product. Of course it is from a reputable company with whom I will probably do a lot more business.

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[758822].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Eric Graudins
    The scarcity tactics used by many marketers and advertisers work, because they trigger a hard wired feeling that is part of our makeup. We want things that might not be available in the future.

    It is one of 6 inbuilt triggers identified by Dr. Robert Cialdini, in his book "Influence - The power of Persuasion".

    The Other triggers are:

    Reciprocation
    - you're more likely to do something for someone who has done something for you first. This is why marketers "give away" stuff.

    Committment/Consistency:
    You tend to act the same way you've done previously. The car salesman asks lots of innocent questions to which you say "yes". He's conditioning you to do the same when he puts the crunch on you to buy the car

    Authority: We're more likely to follow/obey someone who appears to be in some sort of authority position. That's why people seek and revel in Guru status.

    Social Proof: If others are buying/doing it, it must be OK. This is the reason for testimonials.

    Liking/Friendship - We tend to support people like us. That's why sales pitches continually tell us that the person selling the product was once so poor that they ate coal, never had any money. Couldn't afford a decent car, lived in a hovel, yada, yada, yada. But they made good - and so there's a chance that all the other coal eaters who are the target market can make good too, if they buy this product.

    If you haven't read Cialdini's book, do yourself a favour and do so. You'll never look at a promotion the same way again :-)
    Cheers, Eric G.
    Signature

    The biggest benefit of the internet is that almost everything can be automated.
    The biggest curse of the internet is that almost everything can be automated.



    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762096].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author blogginvixen
    Whenever I see this (which is quite often), I chalk it up to the blind following the blind with that same rehashed script!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762209].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mrs Z
    I am a relative 'newbie' to affiliate, niche, article marketing, etc...however, I have been selling art online since 2004.
    In the past few months, it became necessary to have a 'sale' on my art, in order to have income. This worked well, but it seemed I needed to run a 'sale' every other week in order to move my art.
    Believing this to be connected to the economy, I decided not to raise prices back to normal, until the economy stabilized. At the same time, I also decided to remove the word 'sale' from my titles.
    Sales plummeted. It didn't take me long to put 'sale' back in all of my titles, at which time, business picked right back up. I didn't believe this to be deceiving in any way, since the prices really were the 'sale' prices, whether stated as such or not.
    I know this is a little different from what you are referrencing, however, I believe that folks may be 'conditioned' to react to words and phrases like; 'sale', 'limited time offer', ' x number left', 'one day only'.
    Before I began to learn about the tactics and strategies used, in many of these "new to me" ventures in IM, I 'reacted' to these "sale" words and phrases, just as the marketer hoped I would. I honestly didn't know any better. And, I confess to being 'burnt' on more than one occasion.
    Since learning these tactics and strategies, I do not make any 'impulse' purchases and I do 'check' out everything that is offered before I part with my hard earned dollars. And, I also 'check' out any affiliate program that I might be interested in marketing. If I find the program to have a number of complaints, or any 'issues' that I do not want to be connected with...I just move on.
    Signature

    Too busy to write enough content for your blogs and sites?
    Looking for quality articles at competitive rates?
    Visit my site

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762312].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WareTime
      Myself I don't care for the tactic. I don't personally care for half of the tactics used in IM - if I was the customer.

      But as stated on a different thread a couple days ago. I'm not my customer. I'll do what they want. Most of them like to be told the price is going up.

      I think it makes them think they got a "deal". It can also mean less buyers remorse, less refunds.

      Like others have said, if you say you are going to raise your price, you need to follow through.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762414].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kayfrank
    I feel exactly the same - its really annoying
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762443].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    That's so not true. Walmart never has plasma TVs 50% off.
    Signature

    siggy taking a break...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762933].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    i am pretty sure its working and there were certainly studies conducted confirming this. Its a very common marketing technique.

    However, i refrain from such techniques myself.
    Signature
    *** Affiliate Site Quick --> The Fastest & Easiest Way to Make Affiliate Sites!<--
    -> VISIT www.1UP-SEO.com *** <- Internet Marketing, SEO Tips, Reviews & More!! ***
    *** HIGH QUALITY CONTENT CREATION +++ Manual Article Spinning (Thread Here) ***
    Content Creation, Blogging, Articles, Converting Sales Copy, Reviews, Ebooks, Rewrites
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762977].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author charlesburke
    Hi Norma,

    You said:
    >> I also am reluctant now to accept so-called free offers because they too are
    >> usually tied to this kind of promotion.

    Yeah, I agree. I mostly skip all the manifestos and blueprints and other freebie stuff now because I know that sure as night follows day, there'll be at least one OTO lurking behind that nice, free bait.

    What really capped it all was a few months ago when I bought something or other for $1 and there were 3 or 4 OTOs in the follow-up. Once I did get to the $1 set of videos I'd signed up for, I found them to be dead basic stuff. Not bad, but not what I was expecting after reading the sales promo.

    Since then I've gone nearly 100% off video products, since I can read and input information about twice as fast as a narrator can speak. I've seen darn few videos worth the time to sit through them.

    As another person remarked, we're kind of jaded because we've seen all the tricks over and over again. But still... just because I don't like a marketing tactic personally, it doesn't mean I won't use it if the tactic seems appropriate and effective.

    Except for those silly countdown timers that don't change anything. Wouldn't touch one of those with a ten foot polecat.

    Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
    Charles
    Signature
    MisterEbook.com
    Special offer for all Warrior authors... MisterEbook.com/warriorsonly.html
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[762994].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Gail Sober
    I've been using a slightly different strategy by not saying offer ends at x but by saying I guarantee the discounted price through x.

    This way it's not a threat and they shouldn't feel deceived. I'm not saying the price WILL change at x but it's within the realm of possibilities.

    Sometimes there's more in what you don't say than what you do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[763266].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DavidTheMavin
    The best is when they say the price will go up, but then it actually goes down the further you go, and then if you signup for the newsletter or whatever it continues to go down down down lol
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[763302].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author adam westrop
    Classic sales behaviour, for some people it works, for some it doesnt. It does turn me off completely though.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[763355].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ambrose
    It does add urgency and encourages people to "buy now" ("just in case the offer does go up")

    I however try not to use these tactics (of price raising) anymore as if I find a product I am selling is going off the shelves at $20 I'm not going to want to price people out of it by putting the price up to $40,$67 or $150. JUST because it's selling well at $20.

    HOWEVER, I do find it important to let people know if plan to remove the opportunity further down the line. Which lets those who DO buy the product that it is 1 of a limited amount (therefore increasing the chances of a sale - no one wants to miss out) AND lets those who are on the fence or are thinking of buying it later that they may not have the chance later on (ie. it encourages them to make the "bold" step of making payment)

    I'm all for "tactics", there is nothing wrong with them.

    Some work, others don't.

    Some are clever and well thought out, others are cheap/cheesy/old.

    Daniel

    PS. Don't you just hate those countdowns that unbelievably only have 19 mins and 59 seconds before the offer ends when you first arrive at the sales page... only for you to still be able to buy it after the countdown ends. rubbish.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[763395].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Its interesting the responses to this question. It appears that most don't like it and won't use it and yet it still goes around.

    Over the last couple of days I have been shopping at the local Mall. I needed to stock up on some winter things and was stunned when the price at the checkout was reduced substantially. I did not go to these stores because they have sales on, in fact I have no knowledge of the sales as I don't watch commercials and don't get any junk mail.

    The point is that when I want something I go and buy it and am not worried by the price. That has its advantages as I am not addicted to the words SALE or BARGAIN and so save myself a lot of money by not buying all the junk on offer.

    How many stack their cupboards and closets with hoards of stuff bought at sales and never wear or use them? Its the same thing with IM. Yes, it works because these are trigger words that are irresistible to many but after a time even the most addicted shopaholic will wake up.

    I still like to promote honestly and if I reduce the price then it is for good reasons, with no offense meant to anyone else who does otherwise.

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[765236].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Gary J Martin
    It really depends how it is being used. If its using fake scarcity, its a lowball tactic.
    It DOES work. And making your product somewhat exclusive is a good idea.
    It works very well for high priced products. Such as Ryan D's continuity blueprint. Took a few days to sell out 500, but he did. If he hadn't put a limit on them, I doubt he would have gotten anywhere near that number.
    And somehow I think they have tested to that effect at some point.
    One thing the big boys aren't, and thats stupid.
    But like I said, using it and in effect lying, will only get the person a bad rep.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[765274].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by mm365

    I however try not to use these tactics (of price raising) anymore as if I find a product I am selling is going off the shelves at $20 I'm not going to want to price people out of it by putting the price up to $40,$67 or $150. JUST because it's selling well at $20.
    Good point Daniel. How do people then lower the price again to include all those they have excluded by the price rise. There was a great television show years ago called Osin. It was about the art of marketing as much as anything else. In poverty stricken post war Japan Osin became very rich by selling product below the normal retail value. She was always there peddling her wares, upfront and honest. She built up a huge customer base and drove her competitors out of business.

    That's what you also see in retail where stores drive competitors out of business by selling cheaper and, therefore, more product.

    Its a case of 100x$20 or 1x$100 and I know what I would rather have, especially when there are no production costs.

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[768183].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Matrick
    I think it depends on the person if it works or not. I for example are always annoyed by these messages. Other people might think they miss ou ton something though.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[768189].message }}
  • People will copy over and over what they believe works. And maybe for some it works, but for how long? And is it more effective than just offering good value?

    Seriously I use a junk email for nearly all my list opt ins. I get one email... then the next then the next... over and over. From the supposed experts to the wannabee copy cats. And the "Experts" are merely better copywriters. And by the time the 4th or 5th offer for the same pitch comes along the plagiarism is rampant to the point of being funny.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[768261].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Most of the time my upsale will tell you that you can come back tomorrow and more than likely still find the offer .

    But I do warn that only a certain number will be sold with this promotion.

    I build a list with free offers . Most offers have a shelf life . By the time I have sold 250, 500, or whatever the predetermined number is for the upsale , it is time to move on to a different offer .

    With the new freebie comes a new upsale . I never get rid of an upsale page but I do password protect it as soon as the number of sales reaches the predetermined number or a particular promotion quits drawing in the desired number of opt ins per day .

    The main thing is if you say I am only selling 250 of these in this promotion , at 250 they come off the market . I can't stand those pages that have been up for 3 years and only have 11 copies left every time you log on to the site .

    Last but not least , there are times that I am trying to create a buzz for a new product and say I will only let 25 go for this price. I have actually given people their money back and let them keep the product because I did not close the sales page quick enough.

    This let people know that if I say something it happens . If I tell my list a certain product is limited they know that if they don't get it when they first see it that it will not be there when I say I am taking it down.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[768267].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      Most of the time my upsale will tell you that you can come back tomorrow and more than likely still find the offer .

      But I do warn that only a certain number will be sold with this promotion.

      I build a list with free offers . Most offers have a shelf life . By the time I have sold 250, 500, or whatever the predetermined number is for the upsale , it is time to move on to a different offer .

      With the new freebie comes a new upsale . I never get rid of an upsale page but I do password protect it as soon as the number of sales reaches the predetermined number or a particular promotion quits drawing in the desired number of opt ins per day .

      The main thing is if you say I am only selling 250 of these in this promotion , at 250 they come off the market . I can't stand those pages that have been up for 3 years and only have 11 copies left every time you log on to the site .

      Last but not least , there are times that I am trying to create a buzz for a new product and say I will only let 25 go for this price. I have actually given people their money back and let them keep the product because I did not close the sales page quick enough.

      This let people know that if I say something it happens . If I tell my list a certain product is limited they know that if they don't get it when they first see it that it will not be there when I say I am taking it down.
      Well done Troy. You are putting many others to shame and you prove that it is possible to work and make money online honestly.

      My hat's off to you.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[770229].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
    You know,

    It's hard to believe that the scarcity proponent authors forgot one simple thing about the subject -

    If I don't have the result you're product is promising, IT'S ALREADY SCARCE IN MY LIFE. If I'm hungry and it's dinner time, no restaurant I go to has to convince me to buy it by telling me how few steaks they have. In fact, if they did that, I'd leave, because apparently they don't know how to run a business. (Not making this a metaphor for the IM community - just steakhouses, natch!)

    I've bought so many IM products that, looking back, I can't say that I've ever bought one because of the scarcity item. I've usually made my decision by the time I get half way down the page, way before the true or deceptive scarcity tactic even is visible on my monitor.

    The problem with the pure theory aspect of the 6-steps of persuasion, is that it implies you have to consciously apply them. But think about it - if the thing you provide for someone wasn't already SCARCE in their life, they wouldn't have ended up on your sales page in the first place.

    And you know, now that I look back on the ones that I didn't buy (I have 40+ IM products, probably a dozen WSO's), I think if I wasn't sure, the scarcity thing made me decide no.

    I'm not saying that my model is what others use, so please don't reply with how fine you're doing already - just keep doing what you're doing.

    The point of this is to question the theoretical NEED for it. Like I said, all of my purchasing decisions are usually made after reading less than half of the content. And if I've decided against it, it doesn't matter - no scarcity tactic is going to change that.

    I'm sure many people act this way over TV's at Walmart, too.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[770300].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy View Post

      You know,

      It's hard to believe that the scarcity proponent authors forgot one simple thing about the subject -

      If I don't have the result you're product is promising, IT'S ALREADY SCARCE IN MY LIFE. If I'm hungry and it's dinner time, no restaurant I go to has to convince me to buy it by telling me how few steaks they have. In fact, if they did that, I'd leave, because apparently they don't know how to run a business. (Not making this a metaphor for the IM community - just steakhouses, natch!)

      I've bought so many IM products that, looking back, I can't say that I've ever bought one because of the scarcity item. I've usually made my decision by the time I get half way down the page, way before the true or deceptive scarcity tactic even is visible on my monitor.

      The problem with the pure theory aspect of the 6-steps of persuasion, is that it implies you have to consciously apply them. But think about it - if the thing you provide for someone wasn't already SCARCE in their life, they wouldn't have ended up on your sales page in the first place.

      And you know, now that I look back on the ones that I didn't buy (I have 40+ IM products, probably a dozen WSO's), I think if I wasn't sure, the scarcity thing made me decide no.

      I'm not saying that my model is what others use, so please don't reply with how fine you're doing already - just keep doing what you're doing.

      The point of this is to question the theoretical NEED for it. Like I said, all of my purchasing decisions are usually made after reading less than half of the content. And if I've decided against it, it doesn't matter - no scarcity tactic is going to change that.

      I'm sure many people act this way over TV's at Walmart, too.

      Hunger vs Triggers. Interesting point. If you need something buy it and if it is on a special offer well and good. If you don't need it leave it.

      The point I need to make is that I am not going to be forced to buy a product simply because someone want my money. Especially when I don't have any time to examine it first. There's an expression to cover this tactic but I won't raise it here.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[770586].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    "Triggers" by Joe Sugarman
    Chapter 19 Sense of Urgency

    "There is no excuse for not at least considering a sense of urgency in every presentation you make."

    This is no different than popups, fake date scripts and countdowns, exit pops, long sales copy and everything else people say they hate. It all works whether you like it or not.

    PS: So you guys are saying you'd never buy a rug from Rosco?

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[770319].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author amki
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[770659].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by amki View Post

      dangercart says

      I can! Particularly when they have a trashy product and don't care if they take money from someone who really can't afford it because he believes it will solve his financial problems.
      Like solving his financial problems and not your own. Good one.

      Originally Posted by MikeGriffith

      I agree with you, Norma. If the product is good, why should all the sleeze be necessary? Why not be upfront and honest with people? I am personally turned of by these tactics. I have never used them and never will--I don't care whether they work or not.
      Nicely put Mike. Hope the ones who do employ these tactics read this thread as these tactics are obviously not so popular and it is doing them long term damage. How many is it turning away from what could be a reasonable market if done openly

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[772575].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
        I stumbled into this thread and jumped to post after reading about four or five posts because I just had an interesting phenomenon occur that I thought was relevant.

        I had run into price resistance when I raised my price from $27 to $47 per month for all new member who subscribe to my membership site.

        The site has been up for two years, and I have an approximately 90% retention rate for one year and an approximately 75% retention rate for two years at the $27 level.

        I had posted because in the first three months of the year, I had an 80% drop rate from all the new members at the $47 rate, so I sent an email to my list, explaining that I had made the price increase as part of a planned program to raise the price to $67 in June, and hinting at a possible end target of $97 based on value of the products given to me by my mentors. I also mentioned some of the changes that were taking place which were enhancing the value ... like a world class editor for one of the prime products, a new specialty writer for another, and new backend products in the pipeline.

        In the month since that email, an interesting thng has occurred. My new subscriptions have more than made up for all the drops in the first quarter, plus, some who had dropped earlier at the $27 level, have rejoined at the $47 level. Go figure.

        I'm thinking it is the recognition that in this case, since the email was sent as an apology and explanation of an action that was taken, the prospects are realizing that the future price increase is real and will be implemented, and they had better poo or get off the pot.

        Just thought that was interesting enough to post here.

        Kirk

        PS - The niche is not in the IM field.
        Signature
        "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

        Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[772694].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeGriffith
    I agree with you, Norma. If the product is good, why should all the sleeze be necessary? Why not be upfront and honest with people? I am personally turned of by these tactics. I have never used them and never will--I don't care whether they work or not.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[772424].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nathanro
    I really love your topic, like you said, people do what they have learned, and they trust that what they learned was taught by someone that knows.

    I am not sure if you follow "so you think you can dance" but there were several "dance instructors" that were simply aweful, and they get paid to teach.

    John Delavera is coming up with a new way of doing things, It is called the Delaverian Marketing Method, and it is going to change everything in the Internet Marketing arena.

    I know you might not have heard of John, but trust me, you have heard of several of the people that used his ideas to make it big.

    There will be no more need to resort to shady tactics, and the net will start to have quality again.

    I for one can tell you, it is a long wait for something like this to happen.

    Any way, that is my humble opinion.
    Signature

    You want to get bitcoins with a farm that delivers?
    https://go.publiexpert.com/bitcoinlifter

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[772872].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by nathanro View Post

      I really love your topic, like you said, people do what they have learned, and they trust that what they learned was taught by someone that knows.

      I am not sure if you follow "so you think you can dance" but there were several "dance instructors" that were simply aweful, and they get paid to teach.

      John Delavera is coming up with a new way of doing things, It is called the Delaverian Marketing Method, and it is going to change everything in the Internet Marketing arena.

      I know you might not have heard of John, but trust me, you have heard of several of the people that used his ideas to make it big.

      There will be no more need to resort to shady tactics, and the net will start to have quality again.

      I for one can tell you, it is a long wait for something like this to happen.

      Any way, that is my humble opinion.
      That's a big statement to make. People will always resoret to shady practices because they know no better. Good marketing and building trust is an art that many do not realise exists. Or if they do they think it is beyond them to implement.

      There have been many teachers to show others how to reap millions out of unsuspecting newbies. But are they imparting real knowledge or simply proving their own success in this area? If I told you I made $3,000,000 last year how do you research that? How do you know if I am telling you the truth?

      Most people who fall for such statements are simply hungry to make money without learning the basics of what people really want.They just want to wriggle their nose and a bank of money falls into their laps. That is the tough part of the learning curve - how do you avoid these pitfalls and do the sellers have a responsibility to protect the buyers. No! Of course they don't.

      So how do you build a reputation for honesty? How do you earn the trust? Well you certainly don't do either by cheating with products that are simply junk or offered all over the net for next to nothing, if not free.

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[773359].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nathanro
        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        That's a big statement to make. People will always resoret to shady practices because they know no better. Good marketing and building trust is an art that many do not realise exists. Or if they do they think it is beyond them to implement.

        There have been many teachers to show others how to reap millions out of unsuspecting newbies. But are they imparting real knowledge or simply proving their own success in this area? If I told you I made $3,000,000 last year how do you research that? How do you know if I am telling you the truth?

        Most people who fall for such statements are simply hungry to make money without learning the basics of what people really want.They just want to wriggle their nose and a bank of money falls into their laps. That is the tough part of the learning curve - how do you avoid these pitfalls and do the sellers have a responsibility to protect the buyers. No! Of course they don't.

        So how do you build a reputation for honesty? How do you earn the trust? Well you certainly don't do either by cheating with products that are simply junk or offered all over the net for next to nothing, if not free.

        Norma
        Norma, I so agree with you, as a matter of fact I think I do have an answer to what you are saying, there is something lacking in the entire system, and I felt it a couple of months back. I will definitively think of you when I take my step towards it.

        Now, when you talk about honesty, when you talk about earning trust, you are right, I do think that we are responsible for what we do and how we do it, I am a spiritual person and I strongly believe that we are to do what is right.

        This is why I trust John Delavera, John has showed me that he does things in this way, from all the internet marketers he is the only one that shows value, quality, human quality, over delivering and he actually cares.

        As I said, I have a strong spiritual side, and I have seen that he also understands the principles, thus he does things the way that feels right to me.

        There have been other internet marketers that I used to think that were up to his level, but then I learn that they actually learned from him.

        Norma, I am with you, there is a change that must happen to the Internet Marketing arena, there is too much of the same old not-so-right way of doing things, there is lots of low quality products being passed around from one to another, being sold and resold that hold no real value to the customer.

        There are courses that teach people that it does not matter if the quality is great, that what matters is to make a product fast and sell it cheap, if it is cheap then people can't complain. Is this really what we want on the net?

        Do we really need ill-informed customers?

        Every bad product, every bad sale makes a stain on all of us, the idea that "there are millions of users so it doesn't matter" is not the right one, every one matters, every sale matters, and you have inspired me to take action.
        Signature

        You want to get bitcoins with a farm that delivers?
        https://go.publiexpert.com/bitcoinlifter

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[773790].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
          Originally Posted by nathanro View Post

          Norma, I so agree with you, as a matter of fact I think I do have an answer to what you are saying, there is something lacking in the entire system, and I felt it a couple of months back. I will definitively think of you when I take my step towards it.

          Now, when you talk about honesty, when you talk about earning trust, you are right, I do think that we are responsible for what we do and how we do it, I am a spiritual person and I strongly believe that we are to do what is right.

          This is why I trust John Delavera, John has showed me that he does things in this way, from all the internet marketers he is the only one that shows value, quality, human quality, over delivering and he actually cares.

          As I said, I have a strong spiritual side, and I have seen that he also understands the principles, thus he does things the way that feels right to me.

          There have been other internet marketers that I used to think that were up to his level, but then I learn that they actually learned from him.

          Norma, I am with you, there is a change that must happen to the Internet Marketing arena, there is too much of the same old not-so-right way of doing things, there is lots of low quality products being passed around from one to another, being sold and resold that hold no real value to the customer.

          There are courses that teach people that it does not matter if the quality is great, that what matters is to make a product fast and sell it cheap, if it is cheap then people can't complain. Is this really what we want on the net?

          Do we really need ill-informed customers?

          Every bad product, every bad sale makes a stain on all of us, the idea that "there are millions of users so it doesn't matter" is not the right one, every one matters, every sale matters, and you have inspired me to take action.
          Nathan, thank you for the kind words. I am also spiritual and it is beyond me to lie about anything. It hurts me, however, when I see people struggling to make it big time when all they really need is an income. They spend more than they will ever earn being taught ways to lie and cheat rather than to care about the consequences. Finally they give up either bankrupted or discouraged.

          We do have an obligation to protect people who come into IM and are looking for ways to do it right. My big question is why do people pay huge sums to attend seminars by so-called gurus (can be $1,500 up from the invitations I receive) when they can come into a forum like this and learn everything, just as the would be mentors have done?

          God bless

          Norma
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775329].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author nathanro
            Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

            Nathan, thank you for the kind words. I am also spiritual and it is beyond me to lie about anything. It hurts me, however, when I see people struggling to make it big time when all they really need is an income. They spend more than they will ever earn being taught ways to lie and cheat rather than to care about the consequences. Finally they give up either bankrupted or discouraged.

            We do have an obligation to protect people who come into IM and are looking for ways to do it right. My big question is why do people pay huge sums to attend seminars by so-called gurus (can be $1,500 up from the invitations I receive) when they can come into a forum like this and learn everything, just as the would be mentors have done?

            God bless

            Norma
            Norma I agree with you, and it seems like I am not the only one, again John Delavera is doing things so people will learn the right way without spending so much money. He is actually giving for free a trimmed down version of his Fantasos, I can tell you there is nothing like it.

            He is fed up with the bad that has been done to Internet Marketing, so am I, I think this is why I keep mentioning it.

            Unfortunately even in this free forum, one can stumble upon so many ill-given advice.

            The worst part is that some good threads are just skipped by people because there is no reply or just because people pay no attention, last week I posted one about improving results in life and as a Internet Marketer, I got only 1 reply I think, and the stuff is pure gold (if you are a spiritual being).

            Things are going to change soon, and I would be honored to have you being part of it, lets see what John will come up with (it is actually more secretive than I thought, the change that he proposes looks like something really big), and after that I will compliment it with a way that will guarantee once and for all that no more crap will be sold over the net.

            I will contact you once I have it made
            Signature

            You want to get bitcoins with a farm that delivers?
            https://go.publiexpert.com/bitcoinlifter

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775843].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
              Originally Posted by nathanro View Post

              Norma I agree with you, and it seems like I am not the only one, again John Delavera is doing things so people will learn the right way without spending so much money. He is actually giving for free a trimmed down version of his Fantasos, I can tell you there is nothing like it.

              He is fed up with the bad that has been done to Internet Marketing, so am I, I think this is why I keep mentioning it.

              Unfortunately even in this free forum, one can stumble upon so many ill-given advice.

              The worst part is that some good threads are just skipped by people because there is no reply or just because people pay no attention, last week I posted one about improving results in life and as a Internet Marketer, I got only 1 reply I think, and the stuff is pure gold (if you are a spiritual being).

              Things are going to change soon, and I would be honored to have you being part of it, lets see what John will come up with (it is actually more secretive than I thought, the change that he proposes looks like something really big), and after that I will compliment it with a way that will guarantee once and for all that no more crap will be sold over the net.

              I will contact you once I have it made
              Nathan, I can't wait to see it. I would love to know how things are going to change and how they can be changed. You obviously believe deeply in John so he must have something going for him. I can't say I know him though, although the name sounds familiar.

              Let me know when you have it.

              God bless

              Norma
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775869].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alida Caprucean
    This approach is usually working when you launch a new hot product and you have a lower price for the first 2weeks to get people buy ASAP and then you change it to the actual price.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775380].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayMachado
    Let's put it this way. What's more powerful - a doctor saying you have 10 days to live or a doctor saying you're going to die soon.

    If it's just soon, you'll probably just wait around. But there's something about 10 days that will actually get you into action.

    I think the bigger issue to deal with is a fear of sales that you have here. Does Donald Trump have a problem with selling? No. Is he a bad person for that? No. It's all your mindset to sales.

    If you think your product is really good then you darn well need to do everything possible to get it in the hands of people. If you had a product that you 100% believed that was going to change the way someone lived their life, you would use every tactic imaginable.

    Sure you could give it away for free but you would denying yourself a living. If you can't feed your children, that's child abuse and neglect. So what's it going to be - getting over a fear of sales or doing what it takes to help people?
    Signature
    Start Creating Content Faster Than A Japanese Bullet Train. Your Free 7 Day E-Course at http://www.SupersonicSpeedWriting.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775626].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
      Originally Posted by JayMachado View Post

      Let's put it this way. What's more powerful - a doctor saying you have 10 days to live or a doctor saying you're going to die soon.

      If it's just soon, you'll probably just wait around. But there's something about 10 days that will actually get you into action.

      I think the bigger issue to deal with is a fear of sales that you have here. Does Donald Trump have a problem with selling? No. Is he a bad person for that? No. It's all your mindset to sales.

      If you think your product is really good then you darn well need to do everything possible to get it in the hands of people. If you had a product that you 100% believed that was going to change the way someone lived their life, you would use every tactic imaginable.

      Sure you could give it away for free but you would denying yourself a living. If you can't feed your children, that's child abuse and neglect. So what's it going to be - getting over a fear of sales or doing what it takes to help people?
      Jay. I think you missed the point. I am not anti-selling and not are most others who have responded to this thread. What is being discussed is a tactic that fails to give people time to look over something before they buy it. If the product is worthwhile then why the urgency.

      Sure, I get your point and I don't want to discuss personalities like Donald Trump, he has helped to make real estate scarce enough and the price so high so that now the bottom has fallen out of the market. Who is getting burned? Not him but thousands of families who have now lost everything. Thanks to people like him the same thing is happening world wide. CEO's that are so greedy they are taking home millions in their pay packet are affecting everyone as well.

      If something is scarce and the price is right OK but to falsely make it so is wrong. Sorry if you don't get that.

      God bless

      Norma
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775853].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author zapseo
        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        What is being discussed is a tactic that fails to give people time to look over something before they buy it. If the product is worthwhile then why the urgency

        God bless

        Norma
        Norma,

        This certainly clarifies what you are complaining about.

        I agree that people shouldn't be forced into making a decision without having the opportunity to understand more about the product. That's what why there are salesletters and guarantees.

        OTOH -- if someone is purchasing a product SIMPLY because the they are going to lose out on $20 -- well, hmmmm.... I mean, isn't there some onus on the consumer to buy responsibly?

        Ah well -- it's probably a silly argument. There will always be sleazy sales people, and people with poor products, and less-than-diligent consumers.

        Nathanro --

        In copywriting, there's a saw (maybe applies in other arenas as well) -- the bigger the claim, the more the proof. You're making a mind-boggling claim about the changes that will be made in IM -- but providing little in the way of convincers that something like that could actually be done.

        To say that I'm skeptical would be to put it mildly.

        But I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, if the evidence bears out.

        @norma
        John Delavera is the founder of TurboMembership, "JVManager" (of which JV Manager II was named "fantasos") -- and a long time member of this forum (TurboReferrer -- I think I've got that right.)

        Live JoyFully!

        Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist/Copywriter
        NextDay Copy
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775895].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

        Sure, I get your point and I don't want to discuss personalities like Donald Trump, he has helped to make real estate scarce enough and the price so high so that now the bottom has fallen out of the market. Who is getting burned? Not him but thousands of families who have now lost everything. Thanks to people like him the same thing is happening world wide. CEO's that are so greedy they are taking home millions in their pay packet are affecting everyone as well.

        If something is scarce and the price is right OK but to falsely make it so is wrong. Sorry if you don't get that.

        God bless

        Norma
        "Rich people admire other successful people; poor people resent them. If you view wealthy people as bad..., you can never be rich..."
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[780281].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author zapseo
    I haven't read everything in this thread.

    The idea that using urgency is unethical is laughable.

    The idea that it's done poorly at times -- THAT I can believe.

    As people have pointed out -- "sales" to sell inventory happen all the time.

    So, let's see.

    If I "need" to make $10,000 off a product I created -- there is something called the "time value" of money. If it takes me 10 days to come up with the money rather than 20 days -- then why shouldn't I benefit the buyers by encouraging them to buy.

    I benefit, not because the product is worth less, but because TIME IS VALUABLE.

    Norma, the fact is -- most people DO NOT return. You are an exception.

    And there are tons of reasons for why people don't usually return.

    I'll give discounts -- AND bonuses -- to incentivize a sale.

    If I've spent 30 minutes interacting with a copywriting client, if that person doesn't hire me -- then I've lost the 30 minutes. So it can be worthwhile for me to add a little urgency to their decision-making process. It's not going to work for a product that someone isn't already considering, right?

    The fact is, MOST PEOPLE live their lives in indecision. I can't think that helping people to (stop wasting time?) and make a decision is reprehensible. It's not.

    And, whoever mentioned Cialdini -- Cialdini has to be one of the most oft-recommended books to marketers. It's an awesome book (books) -- and well worth the less than $20 it will cost you at Amazon.

    I also recommend "Made To Stick" -- even if they do think copywriters are the scum of the earth. (They had some somewhat uncomplimentary things to say about copywriting legend John Caples...)

    Live JoyFully!

    Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist/Copywriter
    NextDay Copy
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775636].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayMachado
    Now that I think more about my answer, I realize that you actually are making the assumption that every scarcity tactic is connected with a poor product. I think that's a little bit of faulty logic there, wouldn't you?

    I don't mean to be confrontational - trust me. I have done a lot of soul work and have actually put a spiritual product in the market that I TRULY believe in - it was the product that helped me lose and keep off over 50 pounds no problem. I think it's a high quality product that can actually make a change in peoples' lives. And you know what, I'll use scarcity tactics if it's going to help.

    Would I do it if I didn't believe in my product? No. But that's a whole different story. But I think there's been so much hating in this thread that the logic has gotten a bit out of control here.

    Scarcity tactics are not a sign of a bad product. Scarcity tactics are a sales technique. A great product can use a scarcity tactic just like an awful product.

    So the real issue is "Why do some marketers allow themselves to put junk products in the market place and make people believe that it's the next best thing?"
    Signature
    Start Creating Content Faster Than A Japanese Bullet Train. Your Free 7 Day E-Course at http://www.SupersonicSpeedWriting.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775640].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by zapseo


    OTOH -- if someone is purchasing a product SIMPLY because the they are going to lose out on $20 -- well, hmmmm.... I mean, isn't there some onus on the consumer to buy responsibly?

    Ah well -- it's probably a silly argument. There will always be sleazy sales people, and people with poor products, and less-than-diligent consumers.
    If I go to a hotel and hire a room I don't expect it to consist of a bed in a bathtub with no window or other facilities. I expect to get what I paid for and what I expected to receive. That means that the onus is on the seller not the buyer.

    When things are sold sight unseen then they must stand up to expectations otherwise it is cheating and while there are no Internet police if enough people complain there might soon well be.
    Already some governments, such as the Australian one, is threatening censorship. That means that cheats will spoil it for everyone so it is not a silly argument. Its about preserving what we all love for the future.

    God bless

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[775915].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by TheAngelGuy

    The point of this is to question the theoretical NEED for it. Like I said, all of my purchasing decisions are usually made after reading less than half of the content. And if I've decided against it, it doesn't matter - no scarcity tactic is going to change that.
    Wow, I almost missed this great point. Unfortunately the tactic is so wide spread that web masters of sites I use regularly frequently put it up before you can log in. They tend to marry it with their normal message and it can be very confusing.

    Do you click to see what the offer is about or do you press the 'no thanks' button. If its someone you trust you can really be sucked in and then not trust them anymore. Well, at least that's how I feel.

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[776318].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
    I think it too depends on "what" they are offering. I've been doing this IM stuff for 12 years now. Here's how I perceive it...

    "IF" its a service and there's a REASON for the limit, then yeah, it should be stated. (I made this mistake in one of my own sales letters last week <gasp> - stated there was only 50 available at the top level, but forgot to explain why. It was brought to my attention by an associate and I quickly fixed it, *explaining* that I can't do "hands on help" for everyone - and that's why its limited to 50 for that level.

    If a person honestly removes it from ever being sold again, then yes, I agree. John Reese did that a few years ago with his Traffic Secrets (1)... I can't remember if he offered it again eventually or not. (My mind is niggling that he re-introduced it temporariliy for either those that were returned OR as a bonus somewhere, but don't quote me on that).

    I learned a long time ago not to bite on a lot of that stuff unless you truly know its going to be gone. Yeah, it's frustrating to see that its "gone" and then see it pop up as these bonuses.

    These are sales tactics... its fear of loss - it works, otherwise they wouldn't do it. But frankly sometimes I think that it does devalue the product when its suddenly given away as a bonus to another launch. (Then from there if you haven't noticed, that particular bonus seems to pop up everywhere for another batch of launches).

    As for the price rising... yeah, in the example above - if its a set time limit (i.e., a launch price then it goes up ONCE after x days) I can understand. A lot of people don't like this though (both from reading posts and my own surveys).

    But to have the price rise constantly is annoying.

    I did a survey of my members/subscribers about this exact matter a year or so ago when that tactic was really big. (I think it's eased "a little" on the 'upping the price every few days').

    Anyway, I asked "When you see a "limited" offer, what do you LEAST like?"

    Absolute overall majority said when they raise the price every few days...
    and the second was they only cared how long it was (really) available for.

    The concept on some of these tactics, is exactly the same as a "firesale" - except they're no longer called that.

    You know, this special offer available for x days or till sold out, or price goes up every few days.

    Frankly these are the big reasons why I rarely do JV's anymore, because its like everyone and their brother is emailing you with their "big" bonus that you can only get through their affiliate links (and the next one is bigger... and of course delete your cookies so you properly get credit etc etc)...

    Tactics some like, others don't. I can't be bothered, nor would I want to lose my own subscribers for hitting them with the same launches everyone else does.

    Have you guys ever gone to the CNE (Canadian national exhibition) or something like it?

    I am starting to feel like some of these launches are feeling like going there...

    "Buy this here now, you won't get it cheaper"... "buy this from me and not elsewhere and I'll throw in this bonus"....

    and then if you wait till just a few days (or even the last day of the cne LOL) - everyone's practically giving the products away because they don't want to take them home.

    LOL.

    I'll shut up now... I could rant on these things for hours too Norma (and others!)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[780402].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by Seductive Marketing


    As for the price rising... yeah, in the example above - if its a set time limit (i.e., a launch price then it goes up ONCE after x days) I can understand. A lot of people don't like this though (both from reading posts and my own surveys).


    BEING HONEST: I do believe and recommend honesty and sincerity in all sales copy for many reasons. A very important is that if your product doesn't live up to what you promised than it's going to be a short-lived success - if you have success at all.

    So the real question is this: Given the fact that you INFLUENCE a person by merely just interacting anyway AND you know about technique that might PERSUADE the person, what is an ethical use case?
    Point 1. About constantly rising price. Notice how there are not timers now raising the price every few minutes. This was so off-putting. Like if you were the first, or supposedly so, you could have had it for $5 but because you see it late the price is now $15. Who wants it or needs it. You see the clock ticking and wonder about how high it will go. Well I think it has gone, and hopefully for good.

    Point 2 Ethical selling. People are sadly drawn into the IM sphere on the promise that they will make it big with little work and easy to learn knowledge. Nothing could be further from the truth. Triggers that stir them into action are 'amazing', 'free', 'work at home', 'million', 'best product', and so on. I won't list any more because the list is too long.

    Other triggers are 'first time', 'buy now', 'you'll never see this offer again - ever', and so on. It becomes a science to know how to act on the emotions and make people respond with money.

    Years ago someone published the list and let it go for free to anyone who wanted it. Now I see those same words being used over and over, in many instance by people who have been just five minutes into IM. The point is they rise to the level of need and greed rather than of a student in a new field with a long way to go before they truly know what they are talking about.

    Since I first came onto the Internet mid 1990's I have seen it all and it appalls me to see what has happened to ethics over that time. By the same token the progress in technology is amazing and I for one can't keep up with it.

    Many have offered me the opportunity to JV with them and to market their products but something within me stops me from doing it. Why? Probably because I have seen it all before and do not want my name associated with something that has not been proven to be worth the price asked or even whether it has any real value when measured against all else out there.

    God bless

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[781344].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Slippy
    This is a scarcity tactic... and works on a large percent of the population because of just psychology.

    The main purpose is to ACT NOW!

    For most IMer's I'll admit I never see the price go up, its just a tactic trying to raise conversions. granted it doesnt work on everyone (like you). But it works on enough people to become a viable piece of someone's salespage.

    Cheers,
    Nick
    Signature
    Heard of Launch Tree?
    Well I bought it, and decided to camtasia myself buying it and include my thoughts of the product as well as show what it all comes with.If you are on the fence about Launch Tree... check out my video, I'm not biased and its a good insight on whats inside. A good sneak peak and can help with a decision.-http://www.launch-tree-review.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[781505].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Have you ever thought about a product, seriously considered buying it... even hit the
    order button and stared at the order form?

    Then, maybe you've pressed the back button, thought more, hesitated, asked yourself
    whether you needed it, gone off to get some food or feed the cat or do something
    else... and then you get distracted with other stuff in life and...

    ... eventually, you don't buy?

    If so, there's the reason scarcity tactics are used.

    They are there to get you to BUY NOW.

    It is an attempt to reduce your hesitation, your procrastination, and the almost
    inevitable fact (at least in some cases) that if you don't buy there and then, you
    probably never will.

    Of course, that's not always true. Some purchases really do need a lot of
    consideration. Like if you're going to buy a house.

    But for smaller purchases, the decision to buy is often made at the peak of their
    desire. That's when they want you to buy. If you go away and think about it, you may
    talk yourself out of buying.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[781624].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by Paul Hancox

    It is an attempt to reduce your hesitation, your procrastination, and the almost
    inevitable fact (at least in some cases) that if you don't buy there and then, you
    probably never will.
    Are you implying that because I will never buy the product that this justifies over inflating it, over charging for it and pushing my emotions to the limit to force me to buy it? That argument does not hold water.

    The fact is I was never going to buy it so what's it all about? I'll tell you!

    Its about pushing people who have not yet worked out who knows what they are talking about into products from novices who are only out to make a killing. When the real champs offer products you know it.

    One of my champions is Big Mike. He offers amazing products that do incredible things for peanuts. He is what I would call the $7 guy and I usually buy up most of what he is selling simply because I have learned that he really does know what he is talking about. He is a great software producer and he is not out to screw everyone.

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[782324].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
      Hi Norma

      Originally Posted by Norma Holt View Post

      Are you implying that because I will never buy the product that this justifies over inflating it, over charging for it and pushing my emotions to the limit to force me to buy it? That argument does not hold water.
      Well, that is one way of looking at things - a very negative way, in my opinion. Look at all the assumptions you're making...

      That the seller is...

      - Over inflating the price
      - Over charging for it
      - Pushing your emotions to the limit.

      So if a seller offers you a discount, they've been over charging for it before? Do you take that attitude when you go shopping and see a bargain? "I'm not buying it because it was at a higher price before! You were over charging!"

      What if, by giving you a discount, the seller is under charging for it? Is deflating the price? Have you ever heard of a loss leader?

      The fact is I was never going to buy it so what's it all about? I'll tell you!
      Well, if you weren't going to buy then naturally those tactics won't work on you - you weren't a potential customer anyway.

      Its about pushing people who have not yet worked out who knows what they are talking about into products from novices who are only out to make a killing. When the real champs offer products you know it.
      Well, I think a lot of amateur marketers do use some of the tactics in a pretty poor way. But even the top marketers use some of these tactics - the difference is, they are much better at it. They know how to create genuine scarcity and demand.

      One of my champions is Big Mike. He offers amazing products that do incredible things for peanuts. He is what I would call the $7 guy and I usually buy up most of what he is selling simply because I have learned that he really does know what he is talking about. He is a great software producer and he is not out to screw everyone.
      Great stuff. I also have a lot of respect for Big Mike.

      At $7, he might also be under charging for his products, but that's not for me to say.

      What if Big Mike were to run a sale, in which one of the products you bought from him were now $3? Would you say he OVER charged for it before?

      What if Mike put his prices up to $27? Would you say he was now OVER charging? Would he suddenly be out to screw everyone?

      At what price point would you say Mike would be "screwing everyone"?

      For all we know, Mike could be making a LOSS on these products, and have a backend product at a much higher price where he makes his actual profit - I don't know.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[782838].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Norma Holt
    Originally Posted by Paul Hancox

    For all we know, Mike could be making a LOSS on these products, and have a backend product at a much higher price where he makes his actual profit - I don't know.
    The bottom line is GIVING value for money not TAKING because you can skim money off without giving value in return. I don't hear Big Mike screaming about poverty. He offers genuine value and people love and respect him for it. he probably has thousands on his mailing list and if it is not costing him any more to sell 10,000 of the same product than it does to sell 50 then why would he want to put the price up. Like $70,000 plus (and that's just for one product) based on these figures is a lot of money. If he offers 5 products or even 10 and people buy them up then he is making what most people would dearly love to be making.

    The point is not to cut your path off to the big money by trying to get it all in a few minutes of starting your business. I hope you get the point now Paul.

    God bless

    Norma
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[784957].message }}

Trending Topics