'Money is in the List" what List? :)

by wizbiz
65 replies
IMHO Email Marketing is Dead, pretty much.. "Money is in the list" Well won't tell much just look at stats. Normal dbl opt-in OPP seekers (yes created through usual squeeze page) list . 569 messages sent 7 clicks 2 of which are mine (testing). How big list do I need to have say to generate 300 clicks? At the rate 1 click per 100 subscribers, that's what my stats are saying, 30000 list will generate 300 clicks, Good luck! Everything else is "local" Fantasy and guru lies,

#list #money is in the list
  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    WizBiz,

    Don't kill the golden goose just yet? One campaign does not an email marketer make.

    Opportunity seeker lists can be fickle.

    Is this your list that you've cultivated or just some purchased or random list?

    In addition, have you tested your email title, the offer itself, the pricing, and lots of other variables?

    The very first thing I would look at is this: how compelling is the offer? Really!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Shane F
      How old is this list?

      When was the last time you emailed them?

      What type of content have you been emailing them?

      Give us some more information on it before you dismiss email marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author wizbiz
        Originally Posted by Shane F View Post

        How old is this list?

        When was the last time you emailed them?

        What type of content have you been emailing them?

        Give us some more information on it before you dismiss email marketing.
        List at most 5 month OLD, NO legit Opt-in list, did't bought anything, generated myself. Didn't send much to it just yet, maybe few campaigns over last period, since I wait till list was at least 400-500 before sending anything.
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        • Profile picture of the author TakenAction
          Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

          List at most 5 month OLD, NO legit Opt-in list, did't bought anything, generated myself. Didn't send much to it just yet, maybe few campaigns over last period, since I wait till list was at least 400-500 before sending anything.
          There is one problem. You didn't send anything until you had a decently sized list.

          You should have put emails into an autoresponder and had a welcome email that hits their inbox as soon as they opt in. Should be emailing a couple times a week at least. I do an email every 2 days.

          They probably didn't remember who you were since you waited so long to send an email so they didn't bother opening the email.
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          The best thing you can do is put yourself out there.

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          • Profile picture of the author wizbiz
            Originally Posted by TakenAction View Post

            There is one problem. You didn't send anything until you had a decently sized list.

            You should have put emails into an autoresponder and had a welcome email that hits their inbox as soon as they opt in. Should be emailing a couple times a week at least. I do an email every 2 days.

            They probably didn't remember who you were since you waited so long to send an email so they didn't bother opening the email.
            Yes, that's all in place 8 follow up series auto responder is there.
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        • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
          Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

          Good luck! Everything else is "local" Fantasy and guru lies
          Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

          Didn't send much to it just yet, maybe few campaigns over last period, since I wait till list was at least 400-500 before sending anything.
          You need to start taking responsibility for your own actions.

          Pointing the finger isn't going to get you where you want to be.

          "Good luck!"
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        • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
          Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

          List at most 5 month OLD, NO legit Opt-in list, did't bought anything, generated myself. Didn't send much to it just yet, maybe few campaigns over last period, since I wait till list was at least 400-500 before sending anything.
          Hi,

          If you waited until your list got to 400-500 then that means the ones that joined
          your list at the beginning have forgotten about you.

          I get emails every single day and some of them I cannot even remember joining.

          You need to sending emails every single day as soon as that 1st member joins your list.

          Then you collect the data from the 30, 60 or 90 emails over time and use the BEST
          performing ones and add to a sequence maybe.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

          List at most 5 month OLD, NO legit Opt-in list, did't bought anything, generated myself. Didn't send much to it just yet, maybe few campaigns over last period, since I wait till list was at least 400-500 before sending anything.

          There's your problem... why do you wait? Set up your autoresponder messages and your list will be taken care of on autopilot while you concentrate on generating leads.

          You can email your list 5 times a day, at different times throughout the day obviously, and in most cases the majority of your list will NOT see all 5 messages but they will have a greater chance of seeing one. This has been tested by many people and they dono't get more complaints than usual but they make more money.

          According to the latest DMA report email remains unbeaten, with an ROI still almost $41 for every $1 dollar spent.
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          • Profile picture of the author Eric Lovelace
            It all comes to testing and remaining in a constant contact with your list.

            If your list doesn't see your email on a daily or weekly basis. How are they able to say hey I know who that is and I should open his email because he always offers value.

            Eric
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
              Forgive me if I've missed it (I don't think I have), but I haven't seen you reply to the all important question:

              "What's your source of traffic?"



              With those stats, why would you even consider anyone (bar those few initial clicks) on the list to even be human?
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  • Profile picture of the author TakenAction
    I'm just going to guess that you did not set up a quality funnel/email sequence/value to your list.

    Where did the traffic come from?

    Can you show us the squeeze page?

    Did you blast your subs with offers?

    Did you provide any value in the email sequences?

    Maybe your Free offer on your squeeze was horrible and no one wanted to open your emails after they saw your free offer?

    I don't know, there is a lot of variables.

    I know for a fact many people make huge $$ from list building. its not dead.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonLD
      Originally Posted by TakenAction View Post

      I'm just going to guess that you did not set up a quality funnel/email sequence/value to your list.

      Where did the traffic come from?

      Can you show us the squeeze page?

      Did you blast your subs with offers?

      Did you provide any value in the email sequences?

      Maybe your Free offer on your squeeze was horrible and no one wanted to open your emails after they saw your free offer?

      I don't know, there is a lot of variables.

      I know for a fact many people make huge $$ from list building. its not dead.
      I'm pretty new to all this. I've been researching about list building and squeeze pages and so on. Just found this forum a week or so ago.

      What is a good autoresponder to use? how about squeeze pages? I definitely want to start an email list but want to know how to get started and what i should do first. any help would be great. links to threads on getting started for list building and creating a squeeze page or blog page. I must admit i'm not much of a writer so it kind of intimidates me to start a blog page but i'm sure in time I will be able to sharpen my skills.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
        Originally Posted by JasonLD View Post

        I'm pretty new to all this. I've been researching about list building and squeeze pages and so on. Just found this forum a week or so ago.

        What is a good autoresponder to use? how about squeeze pages? I definitely want to start an email list but want to know how to get started and what i should do first. any help would be great. links to threads on getting started for list building and creating a squeeze page or blog page. I must admit i'm not much of a writer so it kind of intimidates me to start a blog page but i'm sure in time I will be able to sharpen my skills.
        Jason, you can get started fast and easy with AWeber.com and LeadPages.net Using these tools, you don't even need a website right away, though I strongly recommend you get one as soon as possible.

        THE primary thing you should be concerned with is building a list of target prospects. Always be building you list -- and never stop. Then learn to talk to them and make offers to them.

        Hope that helps!

        Michelle
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        "You can't market here. This is a marketing discussion forum!"
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  • you just have to use a good sales letter that convert.when you send email to your list without a good sales letter then you won't get much...!
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  • Profile picture of the author Horacioplus
    The money is not in the list!
    The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
    I started a new campaign 2 weeks ago and i already have more than 2k subs.
    The open rate is between 25-45% and im working on it to get better results.

    As long as you build a good relationship with them and give them value. I look at my list like my friends and instead of selling crap. help them.and you get better results.
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    • Profile picture of the author DavidOlsen
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      Absolutely!
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    • Profile picture of the author wizbiz
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      I started a new campaign 2 weeks ago and i already have more than 2k subs.
      The open rate is between 25-35% and im working on it to get better results.
      Good for you, Nice to hear that, I figure my subs are must be aliens..
      I knew it wouldn't work, just create that list to confirm what I already know.
      I have my own like 10-20 email boxes and clearly see what is going on.. We used to call that Bombing, unless your subs has unique address created especially to get on your list, they are most likely also on other 10 legit lists and 15 spammers list, so all they care about, really is to receive less email messages overall as possible.. But I get your point.
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      • Email marketing will never die. It is part of the whole marketing system.

        It is where you can make your first impression and unfortunately you can only make one good one.

        Even if a list is dead, if you just change your approach from shovinh products down peoples throat and actually create conversation that stirs up their inner core and desires then you may get a few live ones

        I send out emails before I sleep and broadcast them to send morning 8 am and 8pm (best times for them ) and I hardly promote my producs and affiliate.

        Instead I try stories the they can relate to or video tutorials that answers their problems

        Remember they signed up to YOUR list! At one point or time they were interested with your idea.

        You just have to give them VALUE and overdeliver with it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tonester
          I find it funny and interesting that you said "I don't need a relationship with Amazon. That's what my family is for. I still buy from them."

          What you should understand is the REASON for a relationship is to build trust. THIS is the most important thing.

          Amazon is already trusted (although they have done a lot in the past to build that trust). On the other hand, us small marketers don't have that trust. We must build it. How do we do that? We get a relationship going with our customers.

          Tony
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          • Profile picture of the author wizbiz
            Originally Posted by Tonester View Post

            Amazon is already trusted (although they have done a lot in the past to build that trust). On the other hand, us small marketers don't have that trust. We must build it. How do we do that? We get a relationship going with our customers.

            Tony
            WOW! Thanks guys, All, really, Just thought to start small conversation and it's grow like a mushroom, overnight.. Good topic though.. I've been mailing since 1998, For me, looking back, good list starts somewhere from 1 million "LOL" at least.. surely 500 peeps won't make a scratch in My wallet, unfortunately..
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    • Profile picture of the author wizbiz
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      It's a NEW nowadays approach, I'm an Old Skool.
      Nobody selling anything straight now, unless they told 30 minutes story first how they was leaving in the trash can for the last 5 years and how their live turn around, ones they have a mentor, which happens to be just was walking by. To press my point, I don't need a relationship with Amazon, I have my family for that, but I'm still buying from them.
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      • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
        Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

        It's a NEW nowadays approach, I'm an Old Skool.
        Nobody selling anything straight now, unless they told 30 minutes story first how they was leaving in the trash can for the last 5 years and how their live turn around, ones they have a mentor, which happens to be just was walking by. To press my point, I don't need a relationship with Amazon, I have my family for that, but I'm still buying from them.
        First I'll address your comment about it being a "new approach". Relationship building with subscribers and an audience is as old as marketing itself. There are many brands who attempt to develop a relationship with their customers and want to become a part of that customer's everyday life. It isn't new, it appears you simply don't want put the work in to do it and/or you don't know how to.

        Now to address a few things, judging on what you're saying, what you're wanting to do is mass email marketing which is a low-CTR game. Your numbers aren't great, but that is partly because (I suspect) you have no idea what you're doing in regards to writing email copy that converts or you simply don't want to put in the time/effort necessary to write good email copy. Additionally, since you're clearly wanting to do the mass email marketing game, well I hate to tell you this, but it is a game of scale. It is going to be rough until you start hitting big numbers of subscribers.

        Judging from your original post and your subsequent responses in this thread, the only thing I can see is that you want to get an email address to optin and then send that person a link and have them buy something. No other work or effort involved. If that is what you want, get out of REAL email marketing and get into hardcore spamming.

        Also, your list quality regarding profitability will depend on a few things:
        - Country of the subscriber
        - What your subscription page implies they will be getting
        - Niche
        - Traffic source
        - Targetting of the subscriber (how closely they are targetted in demographic/interests/income/education in relation to the offers you are sending)

        You're clearly missing something here. Also, you've got the wrong attitude regarding the whole thing.

        In short... you're doing it wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author wizbiz
          Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

          Relationship building with subscribers and an audience is as old as marketing itself. There are many brands who attempt to develop a relationship with their customers and want to become a part of that customer's everyday life. It isn't new, it appears you simply don't want put the work in to do it and/or you don't know how to.
          We are talking about Oranges and Apples here. I'm not saying some with Unique product or Journalist, Or Actor, Professional Blogger Collecting Emails to stay in contact with their "clients" This is not an Email Marketing to me at all? Wrong definition. This way you can call Email Marketing, simple emails to your family and friends. I'm talking about Marketers without their own Product, or even a website, or particular Interest, or Niche, promoting somebody else product.. See the difference? I don't have to be a personal reselling Amazon Products and getting commissions for example. I bet 95% of all Marketers are doing just THAT, reselling somebody else product. And If you have your unique product and collecting emails to Stay in touch with customers, alerting them about new products/services/sale/Deals? Is that really Email Marketing?
          I don't think so.
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          • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
            Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

            We are talking about Oranges and Apples here. I'm not saying some with Unique product or Journalist, Or Actor, Professional Blogger Collecting Emails to stay in contact with their "clients" This is not an Email Marketing to me at all? Wrong definition. This way you can call Email Marketing, simple emails to your family and friends. I'm talking about Marketers without their own Product, or even a website, or particular Interest, or Niche, promoting somebody else product.. See the difference? I don't have to be a personal reselling Amazon Products and getting commissions for example. I bet 95% of all Marketers are doing just THAT, reselling somebody else product. And If you have your unique product and collecting emails to Stay in touch with customers, alerting them about new products/services/sale/Deals? Is that really Email Marketing?
            I don't think so.
            You 100% missed the point of what I was saying and all of the advice I gave you.

            Go back, read it again, VERY carefully.

            It seems you've got a different idea of what building a relationship with your list means in reality versus what it means in your head. You've also failed to realize that there are MANY kinds of relationships in this world, not all of them have to family or friend.

            You've also assumed I am talking about only promoting other people's products or only your own products. It isn't either or, well, at least it doesn't have to be.

            You've also assumed that you can't build a relationship while promoting products. That is definitely not the case. It is rather easy to create value within a promotion which builds trust in you in the eyes of your subscriber.

            Keep looking for excuses on why it won't work, and you'll find them. Look for solutions on how to make it work and you'll find them. It is up to you. Either quit or step up your game, those are your options.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMGem
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      I started a new campaign 2 weeks ago and i already have more than 2k subs.
      The open rate is between 25-45% and im working on it to get better results.

      As long as you build a good relationship with them and give them value. I look at my list like my friends and instead of selling crap. help them.and you get better results.
      So true..This is the right approach towards list building. It has always worked and will always work. Develop relation, give value and you will get in return.
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    • Profile picture of the author beasty513
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      I started a new campaign 2 weeks ago and i already have more than 2k subs.
      The open rate is between 25-45% and im working on it to get better results.

      As long as you build a good relationship with them and give them value. I look at my list like my friends and instead of selling crap. help them.and you get better results.
      This is a great way to look at it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alicia Thibadeau
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      I started a new campaign 2 weeks ago and i already have more than 2k subs.
      The open rate is between 25-45% and im working on it to get better results.

      As long as you build a good relationship with them and give them value. I look at my list like my friends and instead of selling crap. help them.and you get better results.
      I couldn't agree with you more! Don't try to always sell them, build a relationship and earn their trust.

      I had a list of only 100 offline business owners who made me hundreds of dollars every time I sent a broadcast/follow up emails.

      It also depends on where you got these subs from, like where did you advertise your squeeze page to get these opt ins?

      As soon as you have a new sub on your list you should have a follow up sequence doing it's job in your autoresponder!
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    • Profile picture of the author kellymonaghan
      Originally Posted by Horacioplus View Post

      The money is not in the list!
      The money is in the relationship that you build with your list
      I love this! I made it 'Today's IM Quote' on The Internet Marketing Dictionary.
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      Unraveling the mysteries of Internet marketing, one term at a time.
      From our library: 10 Ways to $10K A Month.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karol Z
    I definitely agree with the fact that e-mail marketing is at a decline. While e-mails are a great way of communicating, I feel like Social Networks are taking over and e-mailing in general is becoming less relevant. This is just something I noticed from looking at my peers and the people I work with.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by Karol Z View Post

      I definitely agree with the fact that e-mail marketing is at a decline. While e-mails are a great way of communicating, I feel like Social Networks are taking over and e-mailing in general is becoming less relevant. This is just something I noticed from looking at my peers and the people I work with.
      haha classic.

      Never seen such drivel in my life.

      go back and read some of my posts on list building. That go against the grain over everthing I just said.

      You said email marketing is at a decline. You just proved you do not have lists or do list building.

      We have email marketing on tap and working better in 2014 than any other year. Yes, so i do not see your point.

      Social networks are taking over of course. We have a dot com 2.0 bubble happening right now, in the social media atmosphere and we have never seen anything like it. yes these companies that do not do anything are actually listed on markets around the globe as IPO's (oh dear, but anyway)

      You say email marketing is dead, but how do you log into your damn social media acounts, with ummm an...... email.... that is right.

      And if you are not logged in, and get a notificatoin of a message or chat, how do you get notified.....ummmmm by an.... ummmmm email. very good! LOL.

      So do not give that drivel that email marketing is dead, its more alive than ever.

      In all the testing I have done, nothing works much better than it.

      Gurus abound have lists in the 100's or even millions and making a killing. So do not go round saying list building is dead, when you just proved that you do not have a list, and do not engage in any sort of list building activities.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dani78
        Ironically, even the ones selling the next thing
        that's replacing email, are doing it by... email
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  • Profile picture of the author CSmitty
    I have a small list, but I get about 5% open rate usually. I imagine it was a lot more several years ago. Too many people sending emails today, people have special boxes for all the junk that they never check.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMGem
    1) Can you show your Squeeze Page you generated your Opt-Ins from?
    2) What was traffic source to get those opt-Ins?
    3) What kind of Autoresponder series you have in place?
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  • Profile picture of the author palmvalley
    It depends on so many things...what kind of people are on the list, why did they sign up, what are their needs/pain points, do your offers match those...etc etc. Email marketing can still work if you have the right offer/audience match. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author beasty513
    I think that what you are offering might not be compelling

    enough for people to be looking out for your emails.


    And to engage them you

    should send out a 7-email series soon after they opted-in.
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  • To be successful, you need to do A/B split campaigns. Mailchimp makes this easy.

    Test different titles to see what gets a better open rate before sending your final email. Also, send the same message more than once, about 2-3 days apart.

    Do this no more than three times, though.

    Also, the quality of the list matters. What you offer them matters. For example, one of my lists is for my art students. I let them sign up to be part of my list. I never add people.

    When they buy one of my courses, I have an automated email that says, if you want access to free VIP lessons that I try to put out once a week, and access to all the past VIP drawing lessons, then just plop in your email. You will receive emails from me that start with VIP, so you know it's me.

    I have a 30-50% open rate. I think this is because they signed up for something they wanted. Free art lessons, exclusive ones that you cannot find on my Youtube channel.

    WHen I email them about a new course I came out with, I usually get many sells. If I recommend another artist's course, even with a review, I don't get as many sells. They love my teaching style. Hell, even when I sent them my new course on how to make whiteboard animations, many of them bought it, even though it is not art related.

    I think my point is offer them something they love once a week or so.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I don't want to be anti-list building, but there's no question that open rates are far lower than people believe.

    ESPECIALLY if you build your list via solo ads...

    Solo ad leads generated from your "ham and egger" solo vendor typically produce DISMAL open rates.

    My solo ad subscribers open 5% if I'm lucky...

    The good news:
    My buyers and blog opt-ins are MUCH higher. (maybe 30%-50%).

    PS: I don't hate solo ads by the way. I LOVE THEM.

    But people thinking they can expect 50% open-rate from solo ad leads are conducting BAD MATHEMATICS.

    Just my $.02
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    • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      I don't want to be anti-list building, but there's no question that open rates are far lower than people believe.

      ESPECIALLY if you build your list via solo ads...

      Solo ad leads generate from your "ham and egger" solo vendor typically produce DISMAL open rates.

      My solo ad subscribers open 5% if I'm lucky...

      The good news:
      My buyers and blog opt-ins are MUCH higher. (maybe 30%-50%).

      PS: I don't hate solo ads by the way. I LOVE THEM.

      But people thinking they can expect 50% open-rate from solo ad leads are conducting BAD MATHEMATICS.

      Just my $.02
      The quality of the solo ads you are purchasing are low. With proper behaviour based segmentation of even your low open rate list, you should be able to improve your results pretty drastically.

      There is an issue with the solo ad industry within IM also, you are right about that. Many new solo ad sellers are building a list by buying solo ads and doing adswaps, they are then selling solo ads to other people building their lists using solo ads, who in turn do the same thing. This has created a pool of recycled low-quality leads that take a good amount of effort to siphon off the quality subscribers into a new list or funnel.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    Shoot, I get a 25-50% open rate on my IM niche - and 30-35% on my dating/pua list - and those both pay me thousands weekly...

    doesnt' seem very dead to me
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    • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
      Originally Posted by eljeffe77 View Post

      Shoot, I get a 25-50% open rate on my IM niche - and 30-35% on my dating/pua list - and those both pay me thousands weekly...

      doesnt' seem very dead to me
      But your experience flys in the face of the stats and graphs that the OP has kindly provided for our education. Do you think you could take your contradictory success story somewhere else so that the rest of us can continue to wallow in the irreversible and ongoing demise of the entire online marketing world? (note the wink there ...)
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
        Banned
        Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

        But your experience flys in the face of the stats and graphs that the OP has kindly provided for our education. Do you think you could take your contradictory success story somewhere else so that the rest of us can continue to wallow in the irreversible and ongoing demise of the entire online marketing world? (note the wink there ...)
        Yes sir.... *hangs head in shame and walks away....WITH shoulders down* :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    Email marketing is horrible! :-( nobody opens my emails. LOL

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    • Profile picture of the author AlexRent
      The open rate decreases as time goes by. That is normal.

      Originally Posted by eljeffe77 View Post

      Email marketing is horrible! :-(

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  • Profile picture of the author JRWashington
    The money isn't in the list, but rather in the quality you provide.
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    Entrepreneur and Part-time Geek

    -- Current Blog Post on JRWashington.com: --
    (What are you waiting on? It's free to read!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    You can't look at your own data and say that email marketing is dead.

    You could be doing something wrong.

    According to ConvinceandConvert.com, 44% of email recipients last year made at least 1 purchase based on a promotional email.

    Here's a couple of things you could be doing wrong:

    1. Talking about yourself. Keep words like "me, "mine" and "our" to a minimum. Use works like, "you," "your" and "you're."

    2. Using spammy subject lines.

    3. You aren't segregating your list.

    4. You aren't personalizing your emails.

    5. You're sending your emails at the wrong times. Most emails, if they're opened at all, are opened within 1 hour of receipt.

    6. You're filling the email body with links. This looks spammy.

    7. You aren't entertaining your audience or providing value. Your email can't just be an advertisement.
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    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Email marketing is working just fine for me. My biggest source of traffic to my blogs. One of the top sources for sales.

    40%+ open rates are the norm.

    The problem is likely that you sent cold traffic to a squeeze page and bribed them to opt in with a freebie.

    It's a rubbish way to do things.

    People don't know you and don't care. No trust and no relationship. They land on a cold and heartless squeeze page that bribes them with a freebie for their email.

    They stick in a fake / secondary email just to get your freebie not because they want follow up emails from you.

    Then when they get those follow up emails (if they even see them - often going to a secondary email they ever check / junk / spam) they don't read them, mark them as spam or unsubscribe.

    Better to build a list through selling your own products or through a content rich site (i.e. a blog) much more responsive this way.
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  • Profile picture of the author manolo2
    people have been spammed too much with crappy offers so are more weary to buy just like that. That is why building a relationship is important. If your subscribers get to know you, like you and trust your judgement they then will buy anything you promote because they know you will only promote quality products that you believe will bring value to them (not just make you a quick buck). Keep on pushing
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    Discover How To Profit From Internet Marketing Quickly Using This Simple Method =>Create Money Ideas

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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Email send time makes little difference IME. If people expect, want, and look forward to your emails they will open them no matter what because they love what you send them.

    I've tested it and I can send emails out that arrive in the middle of the night where most of my subs are - open rates were not affected. I've tested loads of times. Opens remain steady.

    Don't blame stuff like send times or even headlines.

    Sure they make a difference but it's small compared to HOW you built your list and the trust and relationship you have with your subscribers and that needs to be done BEFORE they opt in not after - you can't build trust with someone who doesn't see or open your mails.

    Forget cold traffic to squeeze pages with free bribes that are lucky to get 5% open rates and do things in a smarter fashion.
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  • Profile picture of the author troymarkz
    Well no one said it was going to be easy but if you focus on your ctr you will get a better ctr but with that attitude i don't believe you will go too far.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jrivera680
    Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

    IMHO Email Marketing is Dead, pretty much.. "Money is in the list" Well won't tell much just look at stats. Normal dbl opt-in OPP seekers (yes created through usual squeeze page) list . 569 messages sent 7 clicks 2 of which are mine (testing). How big list do I need to have say to generate 300 clicks? At the rate 1 click per 100 subscribers, that's what my stats are saying, 30000 list will generate 300 clicks, Good luck! Everything else is "local" Fantasy and guru lies,

    I'm going to respectfully disagree with your opinion.
    Email marketing is not dead, but marketers might have to evolve their marketing tactics to go with how prospects think and feel.
    Certain questions you have to ask yourself:

    1) how targeted is my list?
    2) Am I doing lead nurturing? (am I giving my list quality content for free)
    3) Am I shaving inactive subscribers after several followups from my list?
    4) Am I testing subject lines?
    5) Am I testing different formats in the body of my email?
    6) Am I asking my list what they would like to learn/or need help with?
    7) What was the response from my last webinar?
    8) Is my content compelling?
    9) Is my product good?/ Is the sales page good?

    You have to look at your campaigns from different angles.
    Try all the questions I mentioned and put your List interaction to the test
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  • Profile picture of the author dgiles63
    Email open lists aren't what they used to be, but I have seen a lot better than that. Unfortunately, engagement is the key. Buyer lists are better than freebee seeker lists. Targeting and talking to your lists' passion makes a difference also.

    There are also other lists: Social media lists, facebook, twitter, and linkedIn have followers and friends that can make up a list. Each type has its own methods of engagement that work best.

    None of these lists work without building a relationship with your customer. Connie Ragen Green teaches this pretty well.
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    Dean Giles
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  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
    I think you want a way to extract money based on a scientific formula that says that people have to buy from you if you send them crap offers and spam them enough.

    I'm sorry but your attitude is bad, and until that changes you won't make a dime from your list.

    Destroy your campaign and ask yourself, 'do I really want to help people or do I just want money'.

    Until you stop thinking you are entitled to people's hard earned money you will get the same results.
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    'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
    -Muhammad Ali

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Langham
      Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

      I think you want a way to extract money based on a scientific formula that says that people have to buy from you if you send them crap offers and spam them enough.

      .
      Hey Zodiax,

      I don't necessarily agree with what you are suggesting. We all know that SPAM actually works, in all its forms.

      Agreed it isn't "ethical", I don't like it personally either, but some very well known marketers make a living doing exactly what you say people shouldn't do, namely send them crap offers and spam them enough.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
        Originally Posted by Paul Langham View Post

        Hey Zodiax,

        I don't necessarily agree with what you are suggesting. We all know that SPAM actually works, in all its forms.

        Agreed it isn't "ethical", I don't like it personally either, but some very well known marketers make a living doing exactly what you say people shouldn't do, namely send them crap offers and spam them enough.
        So as long as it makes you money its ok to keep doing it I guess.

        You know people were ranking spam sites in Google for years until their livings dried up with the algorithm changes.

        There are people who beg for money on the trains here in nyc with fake con stories and make full time incomes, does that mean its the most effective way to build a business? No.

        Guess what, now they are arresting these folks and handing out tickets to those who give them money. So much for doing something that 'works'.

        Bernie Madoff made millions in a ponzi, and it 'worked' for him, and now look at where he is.

        You can also rob stores and banks, that works to.

        If you want to make money and do something that works, and not care about other people than by all means go ahead and do it.

        Just don't complain when things don't work out, or when you paypal isn't being flooded with commissions.
        Signature

        'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
        -Muhammad Ali

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  • Profile picture of the author Tony M
    You seem to have it all wrong. The size of your list is irrelevant. The trust and relationship between you and your list is what counts... but it goes deeper than that.

    What matters is what your INTENTIONS are.

    Here's what I mean...

    The majority of marketers (especially here on the forum) treat their list like a commodity. Which is the WRONG way of doing business.

    The subscribers on your list are REAL PEOPLE with REAL PROBLEMS that NEED A REAL SOLUTION.

    If you were to concentrate on the QUALITY OF CONTENT that you provide and put their problems before the money you wish to make, then your trust and relationship will flourish.

    ... And that's when the money begins flow in.

    Sign up to anyone's list here on the forum... It's sad to see what crap they send to your inbox.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

      It's a NEW nowadays approach, I'm an Old Skool.
      Nobody selling anything straight now, unless they told 30 minutes story first how they was leaving in the trash can for the last 5 years and how their live turn around, ones they have a mentor, which happens to be just was walking by. To press my point, I don't need a relationship with Amazon, I have my family for that, but I'm still buying from them.
      Originally Posted by wizbiz View Post

      That's for sure, I just made a test so I wasn't care much about results, Email was send worse possible time Sunday 5PM, very low chance to catch someone behind the computer ))

      Though you points are well taken.. Thank you.
      If you're talking about the "offer" in your sig, I can understand the dismal results.

      It's the same lame offer every biz-opp uses in one form or another, with a video squeeze page short on details but long on hype and promises. Anyone responding is either very new (which would explain the handful of opens) or is already on a number of similar lists.

      The next thing to ponder is your definition of the word "relationship". If you buy from Amazon on a consistent basis, you do have a relationship with the company. If you want people to follow you into a business opportunity, you don't have to be their bosom buddy, nor is that the relationship you want with them. You want them to view you as someone who can and will help them succeed.

      Back in my mlm days, people used to (rightly) ask why I was so interested in helping them succeed. I told them straight up, if they succeeded with my help, I got two things. I got a real ego boost and endorphin rush, and I got a butt load of money. Most appreciated the honesty.

      It seems to me that your "test" was eminently successful. You wanted to prove that email marketing was dead, so you built a small list of some of the most jaded subscribers you could have picked, ignored them (some for months), then emailed them a canned follow-up at what you admit was the worst possible time.

      Then, when your results predictably sucked, you could point and say you were right.

      Congratulations... :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Tony M
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        If you're talking about the "offer" in your sig, I can understand the dismal results.

        It's the same lame offer every biz-opp uses in one form or another, with a video squeeze page short on details but long on hype and promises. Anyone responding is either very new (which would explain the handful of opens) or is already on a number of similar lists.

        The next thing to ponder is your definition of the word "relationship". If you buy from Amazon on a consistent basis, you do have a relationship with the company. If you want people to follow you into a business opportunity, you don't have to be their bosom buddy, nor is that the relationship you want with them. You want them to view you as someone who can and will help them succeed.

        Back in my mlm days, people used to (rightly) ask why I was so interested in helping them succeed. I told them straight up, if they succeeded with my help, I got two things. I got a real ego boost and endorphin rush, and I got a butt load of money. Most appreciated the honesty.

        It seems to me that your "test" was eminently successful. You wanted to prove that email marketing was dead, so you built a small list of some of the most jaded subscribers you could have picked, ignored them (some for months), then emailed them a canned follow-up at what you admit was the worst possible time.

        Then, when your results predictably sucked, you could point and say you were right.

        Congratulations... :rolleyes:
        Couldn't have said it better
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    The money is in your customer list... not that freebie list stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      There's your problem... why do you wait? Set up your autoresponder messages and your list will be taken care of on autopilot while you concentrate on generating leads.

      You can email your list 5 times a day, at different times throughout the day obviously, and in most cases the majority of your list will NOT see all 5 messages but they will have a greater chance of seeing one. This has been tested by many people and they dono't get more complaints than usual but they make more money.

      According to the latest DMA report email remains unbeaten, with an ROI still almost $41 for every $1 dollar spent.
      Please tell me you don't email your list 5x a day?

      I am sure this can be effective in the short term but I can't see the longevity in this. You'd have to constantly adding tons of new subscribers to your list to make up for all the others you're constantly burning.

      The well will run dry eventually.

      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      The money is in your customer list... not that freebie list stuff.
      Depends really. My blog email lists would be considered a 'free' list but they make me money.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Stuart Walker View Post

        Please tell me you don't email your list 5x a day?

        I am sure this can be effective in the short term but I can't see the longevity in this. You'd have to constantly adding tons of new subscribers to your list to make up for all the others you're constantly burning.

        The well will run dry eventually.
        Stuart, a lot depends on what you promised when they opted in, what you're emailing them and how useful they find it.

        You've developed one type of relationship with your subscribers, and from the sound of it, mailing five times a day would kill that list.

        On the other hand, I'm on lists that do email several times a day, and I'm fine with it. They send me exactly what I signed up to get, I can scan their subject lines and tell which messages are relevant for me, and I can delete the others unopened without remorse. It's part of the expectation set when I signed up.

        This is different from the churn and burn approach many, including you, it seems, attribute to frequent emails. CnB types are fine with having to replenish their lists and, if they have efficient methods for doing so, can make a lot of money.

        Different strokes for different folks.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnFinch
    You are right to be upset but you need to understand something.
    Emails are just another way to reach a large group of people very fast.
    They don`t sell.
    YOU sell. Do these people know who you are? Can they trust you with their money?
    Are you an expert in your field in their eyes? Are you their knight in shining armor to solve their problem?
    You need to answer these questions before you get all upset, but don`t worry it`s natural. The sun doesn`t always shine, sometimes rain pours.
    Selling is helping for a price. Help them first than ask for the price in return.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikepetrea
    Split test Split test Split test
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    Mike, SC

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  • Profile picture of the author depotgang
    Howd you generate your list?
    It takes 20-50K list members to really make money
    Must importantly why are these people on your list?

    559 list member is not enough...

    This is an always will be a numbers game
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    • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
      Originally Posted by depotgang View Post

      Howd you generate your list?
      It takes 20-50K list members to really make money
      Must importantly why are these people on your list?

      559 list member is not enough...

      This is an always will be a numbers game
      Sorry but that's not true.

      It doesn't take 20-50k subscribers to make money. You only need that many subs if you're building lists of garbage subscribers.

      Many people make a full time living off MUCH MUCH smaller lists because those lists were generated in a way that gets high open and click rates.

      I'd rather have 500 subscribers that REALLY want to receive an email from me than 50,000 who don't know who I am and don't care about what I say.
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