If You Are Travelling To The US Read This

RedSynergy

17 years ago

Wow, is it getting even more ridiculous or is it just me? Can't even take a nail file on planes these days.

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Matt Hoey 17 years ago

Originally Posted by RedSynergy

Wow, is it getting even more ridiculous or is it just me? Can't even take a nail file on planes these days.

Maybe, but let's just think about the thousands of people who experienced what it's like die while on public transport because of terrorists.
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John Taylor

17 years ago

Be careful, some unscrupulous people are cashing in
on the new rules by charging a fee!

The service is available free of charge from:
U.S. Customs and Border Protection - Travel

John

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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

New visa entry regulations come into force today.

You have to get an ESTA online at least 72 hours before you arrive in the USA or you risk being turned away.

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Warning over new US travel rules

Martin

Thank you Homeland Security for giving me just one more reason not to visit the US.

I guess tourism is not very high on the list of priorities.

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azlanhussain

17 years ago

Thanks for the info.. with name like mine it will make even worst.. but.. thinking about it... who cares.. I have plenty other countries to visit anyway..

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bgmacaw 17 years ago

Originally Posted by azlanhussain

Thanks for the info.. with name like mine it will make even worst.. but.. thinking about it... who cares.. I have plenty other countries to visit anyway..

Look at it this way, in a few days you'll share our President's middle name.
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Nyerere

Banned 17 years ago

[DELETED]

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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Nyerere

I must give credit to the Homeland Security People.

Bite my tongue. Want to comment. Bite my tongue.

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Nyerere

Banned 17 years ago

[DELETED]

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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Nyerere

I suspected that people with long hair and beards would not see the benefits of Security over freedom (:

It is only once I shaved my beard that I too started to see things differently.

JKN

Funny, there was a time when America preached Freedom. It wasn't all that long ago.

At that time the US cry was "Better dead than red", now it seems the tables have turned. What a sad and pathetic time for the US.

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Funny, there was a time when America preached Freedom. It wasn't all that long ago.

At that time the US cry was "Better dead than red", now it seems the tables have turned. What a sad and pathetic time for the US.

Typical BS from someone who doesn't live here.

Yes, we have lost all our freedoms here. We are now like a Communist bloc country. Things have gotten so bad, only about 800,000 illegals stream over our locked down borders versus the 1,000,000 or so it used to be.

Thankfully, you don't want to come here. We have enough morons to deal with as it is.

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jacktackett 17 years ago

To paraphrase one of our founding fathers:

Folks who give up freedom for security deserve neither......

peace,
--Jack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post
Bite my tongue. Want to comment. Bite my tongue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
If you believe that, I sell magic rocks that scare tigers away.
In 23 years of my life, I've never seen a tiger, so it must work.

Alex.
I suspected that people with long hair and beards would not see the benefits of Security over freedom (:

It is only once I shaved my beard that I too started to see things differently.

JKN
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Kim Standerline 17 years ago

Same here Guantanamo Bay anyone

Kim

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Bite my tongue. Want to comment. Bite my tongue.
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Alexandre Valois

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Nyerere

I must give credit to the Homeland Security People. There has not yet been another attack since 9/11. There anti-freedom techniques do seem to work in the fight against tirrirism.

JKN

If you believe that, I sell magic rocks that scare tigers away.
In 23 years of my life, I've never seen a tiger, so it must work.

Alex.

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damienb

17 years ago

shit! what other regulation can they come up with before people stop coming over there.

I for one was planning to spend time in the US this summer, I think I will need to plan my trip weeeellll ahead if I don't want to be send back home in a box....

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by damienb

shit! what other regulation can they come up with before people stop coming over there.

I for one was planning to spend time in the US this summer, I think I will need to plan my trip weeeellll ahead if I don't want to be send back home in a box....

Did you actually read the article? Most requests were approved in 4 seconds and they ask only 3 days advance notice. So unless you consider 3 days weeeellll ahead, then I don't think you will have any issues.

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Kim Standerline

17 years ago

Maybe if you hadn't gotten so defensive and read the thread (where it pertains to this), you'll see that part of the worry is that many people may not realise this has come into effect when they travel to the US and will be denied entry after paying to travel quite legitimately.

Strange as it may seem to some people, not everyone has access to a computer or the knowledge to use one

Originally Posted by nhangen

Did you actually read the article? Most requests were approved in 4 seconds and they ask only 3 days advance notice. So unless you consider 3 days weeeellll ahead, then I don't think you will have any issues.

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

Maybe if you hadn't gotten so defensive and read the thread (where it pertains to this), you'll see that part of the worry is that many people may not realise this has come into effect when they travel to the US and will be denied entry after paying to travel quite legitimately.

Strange as it may seem to some people, not everyone has access to a computer or the knowledge to use one

I read the entire thread and this comment doesn't reflect many of the comments accurately - at all.

The article actually addresses this as a concern and although it isn't perfect, I am betting they are trying to get the word out as fast as possible.

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Martin Luxton

17 years ago

The reason why I posted this is that a lot of travel agents don't emphasize enough the visa requirements when they sell you a ticket.

When I travelled to Australia recently, there was a Swiss lady with a young kid in front of me at the transfer desk in Singapore who had been turned off the flight. Fortunately, there was a public computer terminal there and I showed her how to get an Aussie ETA visa on the spot.

This won't work with the ESTA because of the requirement to have it in place 72 hours beforehand.

As for all the other stuff on the thread, I can't complain because I have done my own fair share of meandering in a thread.

However, a few things to chew on.

A lot of Japanese students I talked to were frightened of going to America because they were convinced they would be the victim of gun violence.

English language students are now going to the UK, Malta and Australia instead of the States because it is easier to get a student visa, and they are perceived as safer destinations.

Turkey used to be one of America's staunchest allies. Now, depending on which poll you read, some 80% of Turks think the USA is the biggest danger to world peace.

I have American friends who now pretend they are Irish or Scottish in public because it is too dangerous to be American (or British for that matter

).

I'm not saying America isn't a great country, but if something doesn't change soon you are going to have no friends left in the world.

Martin

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

The reason why I posted this is that a lot of travel agents don't emphasize enough the visa requirements when they sell you a ticket.

When I travelled to Australia recently, there was a Swiss lady with a young kid in front of me at the transfer desk in Singapore who had been turned off the flight. Fortunately, there was a public computer terminal there and I showed her how to get an Aussie ETA visa on the spot.

This won't work with the ESTA because of the requirement to have it in place 72 hours beforehand.

As for all the other stuff on the thread, I can't complain because I have done my own fair share of meandering in a thread.

However, a few things to chew on.

A lot of Japanese students I talked to were frightened of going to America because they were convinced they would be the victim of gun violence.

English language students are now going to the UK, Malta and Australia instead of the States because it is easier to get a student visa, and they are perceived as safer destinations.

Turkey used to be one of America's staunchest allies. Now, depending on which poll you read, some 80% of Turks think the USA is the biggest danger to world peace.

I have American friends who now pretend they are Irish or Scottish in public because it is too dangerous to be American (or British for that matter

).

I'm not saying America isn't a great country, but if something doesn't change soon you are going to have no friends left in the world.

Martin

As much as I want to comment on the entire post, I'll stick to the very last point. What exactly would you expect to be changed? 72 hour visa requirement has nothing to do with that I would suspect, and yet people are using this thread as an opportunity to bash America.

I'm proud to live in a country that refuses to cave.

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Martin Luxton

17 years ago

Originally Posted by nhangen

As much as I want to comment on the entire post, I'll stick to the very last point. What exactly would you expect to be changed? 72 hour visa requirement has nothing to do with that I would suspect, and yet people are using this thread as an opportunity to bash America.

I'm proud to live in a country that refuses to cave.

I didn't bash America and I think making visas electronic is a very logical thing to do.

When I talked about America changing I am referring to the fact that your country is probably more unpopular than it has ever been in its whole history. I just wish more American politicians would reflect on why this is and do something to rectify it. The more unpopular America becomes, the more insular and defensive it becomes and this is very bad for the world.

Roger,

These days, the most innocent of posts can turn into anything.

Martin

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

I didn't bash America and I think making visas electronic is a very logical thing to do.

When I talked about America changing I am referring to the fact that your country is probably more unpopular than it has ever been in its whole history. I just wish more American politicians would reflect on why this is and do something to rectify it. The more unpopular America becomes, the more insular and defensive it becomes and this is very bad for the world.

Roger,

These days, the most innocent of posts can turn into anything.

Martin

No, you didn't bash anything and you were just starting an innocent post...at least I think so lol.

What I am saying is that being unpopular is not a good enough reason to change. I'd venture to say that America was pretty unpopular when we claimed independance. I don't think a lot has changed since then. Yes, we are getting more insular and I'd venture to say that we don't have much of a choice. I just cannot believe the amount of American hate among the educated on this forum.

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Kim Standerline

17 years ago

I think hate is much too strong a word, Disappointment maybe with a touch of sorrow from some

Originally Posted by nhangen

No, you didn't bash anything and you were just starting an innocent post...at least I think so lol.

What I am saying is that being unpopular is not a good enough reason to change. I'd venture to say that America was pretty unpopular when we claimed independance. I don't think a lot has changed since then. Yes, we are getting more insular and I'd venture to say that we don't have much of a choice. I just cannot believe the amount of American hate among the educated on this forum.

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garyv

17 years ago

All creatures become more defensive when they're poked hard enough. We're just in a bit of an over-reaction mode. You can't expect to swing at a beehive, without some terrible repercussions for everyone. We're working very hard to cover our obvious weaknesses, while at the same time making everyone happy. It's an impossible task, but we're working hard to get there.

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

I didn't bash America and I think making visas electronic is a very logical thing to do.

When I talked about America changing I am referring to the fact that your country is probably more unpopular than it has ever been in its whole history. I just wish more American politicians would reflect on why this is and do something to rectify it. The more unpopular America becomes, the more insular and defensive it becomes and this is very bad for the world.

Roger,

These days, the most innocent of posts can turn into anything.

Martin

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Martin Luxton

17 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

All creatures become more defensive when they're poked hard enough. We're just in a bit of an over-reaction mode. You can't expect to swing at a beehive, without some terrible repercussions for everyone. We're working very hard to cover our obvious weaknesses, while at the same time making everyone happy. It's an impossible task, but we're working hard to get there.

Gary,

I think Kim hit the nail on the head. America's friends are sad and disappointed. Rightly or wrongly, we expect better of you.

Martin

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Gary,

I think Kim hit the nail on the head. America's friends are sad and disappointed. Rightly or wrongly, we expect better of you.

Martin

I asked before and I'll ask again...what exactly do you expect?

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Martin Luxton

17 years ago

Originally Posted by nhangen

I asked before and I'll ask again...what exactly do you expect?

For America to try and fix all of the many fences it has broken.

Barack Obama has generated a lot of goodwill around the world. Hopefully, he can build on that to make America respected rather than feared.

Shannon,

Proud to be an American!

If you do not like our rules stay out.

I served in the Army as an Infantry soldier and would still die for this country if need be.

I have lost a ton of respect for many people here today.

Shannon

Edit: This country is not perfect, is yours?

I agree totally with what you say. The point I am trying to make is, wouldn't you be even prouder if the world respected America once again?

Martin

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

For America to try and fix all of the many fences it has broken.

Barack Obama has generated a lot of goodwill around the world. Hopefully, he can build on that to make America respected rather than feared.

Shannon,

I agree totally with what you say. The point I am trying to make is, wouldn't you be even prouder if the world respected America once again?

Martin

You keep talking in ambiguities...how about giving me something concrete?

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garyv

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Gary,

I think Kim hit the nail on the head. America's friends are sad and disappointed. Rightly or wrongly, we expect better of you.

Martin

Actually Kim should be just as disappointed in her own Country. They've gone to the same places we have. And while we here in the United States may hold up your rights for a few minutes while you enter our country; In the UK, your rights are constantly bombarded. As they have cameras watching you from every nook and cranny.

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Actually Kim should be just as disappointed in her own Country. They've gone to the same places we have. And while we here in the United States may hold up your rights for a few minutes while you enter our country; In the UK, your rights are constantly bombarded. As they have cameras watching you from every nook and cranny.

Hey GaryV, do you happen to know the other GaryV of winelibrary.tv and garyvaynerchuk.com? Awesome guy.

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garyv 17 years ago

Originally Posted by nhangen

Hey GaryV, do you happen to know the other GaryV of winelibrary.tv and garyvaynerchuk.com? Awesome guy.

I had not heard of him until now. Thank you for pointing him out to me. Very fascinating character. I'll definitely be bookmarking him to keep an eye on.
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Kim Standerline

17 years ago

I think you'll find I stated (in so many words that I'm very disappointed with the UK at the moment)

To be honest, I find what is happening in both the US and the UK scary (Animal farm anyone)

Who know's what is going on behind closed doors in the world of politics.

Shannon why would you say you have lost respect for people just because they have the temerity to criticise what your government is doing. (It's called democracy). No-one is criticising America, it's a beautiful country, and all of the American's I've ever met have been super.

I'm certainly vocal in criticising the UK government, the've made a real balls up of the place, and the sad thing is, is that there isn't a decent alternative.

Kim

Originally Posted by garyv

Actually Kim should be just as disappointed in her own Country. They've gone to the same places we have. And while we here in the United States may hold up your rights for a few minutes while you enter our country; In the UK, your rights are constantly bombarded. As they have cameras watching you from every nook and cranny.

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Johnathan 17 years ago

lol, wow, you have magic rocks? if I purchased some, would you throw in a few leprecauns as well? I hear they are magically delicious.

Originally Posted by Alexandre Valois

If you believe that, I sell magic rocks that scare tigers away.
In 23 years of my life, I've never seen a tiger, so it must work.

Alex.
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- Nathan Hangen 17 years ago
  
  It is easy to sit in a forum and bitch and moan, but I bet you don't turn away those American Dollars that keep showing up in your Paypal account.
  
  I will assume that this garbage is just misplaced jealousy.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Thomas 17 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by nhangen
  
  ... just misplaced jealousy.
  
  Jealousy of what?
  
  Thanks
  
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- Thomas 17 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Johnathan
  
  ...if I purchased some, would you throw in a few leprecauns as well? I hear they are magically delicious.
  
  They're not THAT tasty.
  
  I should know...
  
  Thanks
  
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Thomas 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Nyerere

There has not yet been another attack since 9/11.

There hadn't been one before 9/11 either.

Personally, I think all American citizens should simply be shackled together in leg irons. Then, anyone not shackled = Johnny Foreigner = terrorist. Bang bang! Problem solved!
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RDGatchel

17 years ago

BTW ... there is another situation for folks coming into the USA (not sure if this has been modified or not, BUT ....)

Folks coming into the US MAY also have any laptops (even Iphones and PDA) subject to inspection. And I'm not talking just a physical inspection ... we're talking turning it on and doing "forensic" analysis of your data to be sure there is nothing "bad" on there.

OH ... and I forgot to mention ... they can impound your device(s) to do this and keep them for ... well ... ummmm ... as long as they want. You MAY get your device back in a few months! OR NOT!

BTW ... this applies even to US Citizens travelling back into the US with devices as well.

(sigh)

And I'm NOT going to be get into any "rants" about Security over Freedom etc. There are issues in this world that need to be addressed in a "sane" fashion. BUT ... I'm always reminded of a phrase that Benjamin Franklin, one of the Founding Fathers of this country said (and a paraphrase)

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"

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damienb

17 years ago

Originally Posted by RDGatchel

BTW ... there is another situation for folks coming into the USA (not sure if this has been modified or not, BUT ....)

Folks coming into the US MAY also have any laptops (even Iphones and PDA) subject to inspection. And I'm not talking just a physical inspection ... we're talking turning it on and doing "forensic" analysis of your data to be sure there is nothing "bad" on there.

OH ... and I forgot to mention ... they can impound your device(s) to do this and keep them for ... well ... ummmm ... as long as they want. You MAY get your device back in a few months! OR NOT!

BTW ... this applies even to US Citizens travelling back into the US with devices as well.

(sigh)

And I'm NOT going to be get into any "rants" about Security over Freedom etc. There are issues in this world that need to be addressed in a "sane" fashion. BUT ... I'm always reminded of a phrase that Benjamin Franklin, one of the Founding Fathers of this country said (and a paraphrase)

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"

Nice...it's getting better by the minute. Let me think...where else can I go?

Thanks
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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by damienb

Nice...it's getting better by the minute. Let me think...where else can I go?

There's Europe and Asia. Why would anyone want to travel to the US? They don't even have good cuisine or any culture.

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jmidas

17 years ago

Kevin, no offense, but I suspect you will be the first person criticizing the us government for not doing enough the next time innocent people are murdered. We get it - you're too cool for us.

Personally, I'd rather risk inconviencing a few (or a lot) people to protect the whole. I'm not saying the US govt is perfect - very far from it - but they have to do something to protect its citizens, right?

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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by jmidas

Kevin, no offense, but I suspect you will be the first person criticizing the us government for not doing enough the next time innocent people are murdered.

You won't be hearing that from me, so don't even try to pull that crap on me. And I do take offense when someone assumes such drivel.

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jmidas

17 years ago

We'll hold you to it if/when something bad happens. Just re-read what you wrote, easy to make the assumption.

By the way, I love hamburgers and hotdogs and going to the local tractor-pull.

Thanks
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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by jmidas

We'll hold you to it if/when something bad happens. Just re-read what you wrote, easy to make the assumption.

By the way, I love hamburgers and hotdogs and going to the local tractor-pull.

Really? I re-read it and I just don't see that, but then maybe I don't have bullcrap in my eyes from hanging around tractor pulls.

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GeorgR. 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

There's Europe and Asia. Why would anyone want to travel to the US? They don't even have good cuisine or any culture.

Do YOUUUU have an idea how i miss Taco Bell here in EU....

And mexican food....i mean, REAL mexican food.... darn...
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damienb

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

There's Europe and Asia. Why would anyone want to travel to the US? They don't even have good cuisine or any culture.

lol...actually, I'm quite fed up with our good french cuisine and wanted to indulge myself in eating burgers, fries and the like

. And it would be cool to see the west coast and surf some of their best spots in California...
surf culture you know

Thanks
1 reply

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Tom B

Banned 17 years ago

I always hate these types of threads.

I am proud to be an American. I love my country and think this is one of the best places to live. I have lived in other countries and really enjoyed my time there.

Even my wife who has just immigrated sees how anyone can have a great life in America. One of the things that makes America so great is the opportunities it gives each and every person. If you want to be wealthy or make a good life here you can. Or you can just bitch about everything and go nowhere.

Look, attack the politics if you want, but please don't attack my country and I will do the same for you. I am sure you are patriotic about your country and you should be.

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damienb

17 years ago

Hi Thomas,

I don't think anyone is bashing the US or American people in particular but rather expressing their own opinions about the laws the government is putting out. As a potential "tourist", I find it difficult to put up with these kind of regulations...
This has absolutely nothing to do with the people who live there.

If someone came criticising the french laws, I wouldn't automatically assume that it's meant as a personal attack.

Anyway, as someone said it before, this is not a Politics/Laws forum, so I'll just shut up and go back to my work.

Have a good day.

Damien

Thanks
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Kevin Riley 17 years ago

Thomas and Robin

Not attacking American people. Heck, some of my best friends are Americans and a very large chunk of my family too. But I will retain my right to attack a government that I dislike.

My father was American. He fought for freedom in WWII. I'm sure he tosses in his grave to see what has become of his country. The freedom he and his fellow Americans risked their lives for, is now being thrown away because of a few terrorists? I'm sure his generation would be disgusted.

OK, enough politics. I'm off to sleep.
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- Tom B Banned 17 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kevin Riley
  
  OK, enough politics. I'm off of sheep.
  
  I fixed your post Kevin.
  
  John Taylor would be jealous.
  
  Thanks
  
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Tom B

Banned 17 years ago

Originally Posted by damienb

Hi Thomas,

I don't think anyone is bashing the US or American people in particular but rather expressing their own opinions about the laws the government is putting out. As a potential "tourist", I find it difficult to put up with these kind of regulations...
This has absolutely nothing to do with the people who live there.

If someone came criticising the french laws, I wouldn't automatically assume that it's meant as a personal attack.

Anyway, as someone said it before, this is not a Politics/Laws forum, so I'll just shut up and go back to my work.

Have a good day.

Damien

Reread the thread than Damien.

I have been too quite a few countries and loved things about each and every one of them. I just don't get the hate but than again I do try to look for the positive. Maybe that is why I am a pretty happy person.

It was quoted how people are leaving the US, but how many people are trying to get into the US?

I just sent this pm to Bob because I wasn't attacking him but trying to make a point.

I see a lot of US citizens complaining how things are ran here. Well what are you doing about it then? People say that our fore fathers would be turning in their graves. I agree with them not because of the state of affairs but because citizens are complaining and not doing anything about it. They are complacent and our fore fathers would be shocked at this alone.

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Jim M 17 years ago

There's no big deal with this form - it just saves you having to do the paperwork you always had to do previously on the plane - the only difference is there's a lot more small print to which your bound - it's worth reading

I did one last week and you get a reply back in about 20 seconds.....
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koolphoto

17 years ago

I for one would rather be safe then sorry.

I saw the World Trade Centers go down. I know people who died there. This is the result of bad people who don't give a damn about life.

It is simple, If you have problems with that then don't come here.

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Kevin Riley

17 years ago

Originally Posted by koolphoto

I for one would rather be safe then sorry.

I saw the World Trade Centers go down. I know people who died there. This is the result of bad people who don't give a damn about life.

It is simple, If you have problems with that then don't come here.

Oh, I definitely won't.

Safe than sorry? Your country is full of people who shoot each other on a daily basis. Terrorists are the least of your worries.

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HeySal 17 years ago

Originally Posted by damienb

Nice...it's getting better by the minute. Let me think...where else can I go?

You can go anywhere.....if you are allowed to get on a plane. And be warned there is legislation that might have already passed that will make it okay for them to take everything you own - including the bank accounts if you decide to leave to live elsewhere. You are either a citizen for life or penniless now. Buy a two way ticket and then if they let you out, you can cancel the return once your property and funds are safe from them.

Land of the free only refers to a McChicken when you buy a BigMac on friday.
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JustVisiting

17 years ago

Originally Posted by RDGatchel

BUT ... I'm always reminded of a phrase that Benjamin Franklin, one of the Founding Fathers of this country said (and a paraphrase)

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"

What a great quote.

Everything can be taken to extremes.

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Alexandre Valois

17 years ago

That's the kind of stuff that makes me say loud and clear ...

Proud to be Canadian!

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globalpro

17 years ago

Let's get real here for a minute.

This whole security thing stems from an attack by people who hate us.

Why?

Because the US government for years, even before the attacks, has had this endearing policy of forcing decmocracy on countries that don't want it, meedling in the affairs of countries that don't need it and supporting brutal regimes in the name of National Security.

The US government somehow never read Dale Carnegie's masterpiece.

Look at the results of the involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. They went in to help Westernize them and bring them into the 21st Century and look at the results.

It's no wonder the US has had to maintain tight security.

It's very sad, but not unexpected.

Thanks,

John

PS Please don't tell me if I don't like it here, to go somewhere else. I have heard that too many times already.

PPS I guess our 'new' motto should be, "Please don't hate me because I'm an American".

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Steadyon 17 years ago

Without getting into who, what and why regarding 9/11, I see that the official low estimate of American citizens who leave the USA is approximately 350,000 each year for the last 6 years.

Why is that?

These are mainly middle class and even wealthier types, taking their wealth with them.

That leaves the average Joe ending up having to pay more to cover the cost of all the various "services" he is "entitled" to.

Same in the UK. Many decent law abiding citizens decide they have had enough and look for somewhere better.

Too much government interference and too much bureaucracy in too many places...

Quite sad really that it has to come to this.
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- jmidas 17 years ago
  
  the tractor pull comment was a joke. I havent been to one in at least 3 days.
  
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Kelly Stone

17 years ago

Being British I have a lot of thoughts on the UK & US Gov. but to be quite honest, when I express my opinion it can cause people to clap their hands and others want to clap their hands around my neck. For the record I would just like to say that the British government don't do any better in my eyes.

I agree that I don't mind being inconvenienced for the greater good but I will not give up my freedom of speech or my opinion for that matter for anyone. I'm sure that there are people out there that have seen something very similar happen in Europe around the time of the second world war!

There you go - I've done it again

Getting back on topic and off my soapbox, it was really helpful information for anyone wanting to travel to the US. Thanks for letting us know Martin.

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RobinSkeen

17 years ago

Is this the bash the US thread? Bash the dang government but we're people just like anyone else in the world. It was nice "tourists" who came in here and then flew planes into our buildings. So yeah, we're a little nervous about tourists and that's not going to improve in my lifetime unfortunately. I am still proud to call myself an American. I'll be even prouder come next Tuesday.

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jmidas 17 years ago

Thanks Robin.
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bgmacaw

17 years ago

You know, I understand there are whole forums dedicated to discussing politics.

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RDGatchel

17 years ago

Oh my this thread is getting interesting ....

And I vowed NOT to get back in the fray, but I just can't help it. And Thomas ... I want to go on the record to state that even as an AMERICAN I hate to see ANYONE "bashing" ANYONE's country. It's just not productive or professional! I think it's great that you emigrated here!

AND YOU ARE SO RIGHT ... ATTACK THE POLITICS NOT THE PEOPLE!

ANYWAY ... to add more input to some other comments:

Look ... my family is not originally from the USA, they emigrated from Poland and Russia one one side, and Germany and "places unknown" on the other side. Why did they leave? To find a better life in a country with FREEDOM from oppression and extermination.

I am proud to be an American ... but I'm also an American that reserves the right (a right that we still have ... for now) to QUESTION and even CRITICIZE my Government and the politics surrounding it!

Now ... I'm not some history scholar but history is a hobby of mine ... and was kind of "impressed" upon my by my elders who impressed the importance of remembering the past so as to not repeat it.

You know what? I'm scared to DEATH for this Country (USA).

Not just from outside forces - but ALSO from internal forces and the ignorance of our own citizenry about how our system of government is supposed to work. How our citizenry has been conditioned to never question the role of the government that SERVES US. NOT the other way around. How our citizenry has abdicated self reliance for the welfare state and so many other things. And how the citizenry under fear is willing to abdicate freedoms that many of our family fought for.

THAT'S the thing that scares me the most! Under the tragedies that hit our country on 9/11 ... people have WILLINGLY abdicated a "little freedom" for the lure of "enhanced security" ... the Constitution be damned! (sigh) Pretty soon those "little bit of freedoms" given up could be MOST of them!

Our US Forefathers would be appalled and ashamed of what they see now. They crafted this government because they KNEW what a government could do to its populace.

If you are merely ACCUSED of being a "terrorist" or involved in it ...

You could lose the right of Habeas Corpus and rot in jail with no charges ...
You lose the right to a speedy trial and "rules of evidence" suspended ...
You lose the right to "probable cause for search and seizure ....

And even if you are NOT a terrorist you now ...

Have travel exit and entry EXTREMELY controlled (beyond reason)
You can't even move your own money within some bank accounts ...

ALL under the banner of "Homeland Security"

Think about this for a minute:

A chilling passage comes to mind from Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813) who was a Scottish jurist and historian:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage"

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Tom B

Banned 17 years ago

Originally Posted by RDGatchel

Oh my this thread is getting interesting ....

And I vowed NOT to get back in the fray, but I just can't help it. And Thomas ... I want to go on the record to state that even as an AMERICAN I hate to see ANYONE "bashing" ANYONE's country. It's just not productive or professional! I think it's great that you emigrated here!

ANYWAY ... to add more input to some other comments:
"

So what are you doing about it Bob besides just bitching on forums.

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RDGatchel

17 years ago

Thomas ...

Not "bitching" ... just commenting! I've been politically active since I was old enough to vote. I participate in local politics (since all politics are local :-) ) and keep informed about events in our country. I'm a member of the Heritage Foundation and read everything from the Economist to New Republic. And not particularly aligned with any particular political party or philosophy.

As I said ...

Political history has been a hobby and part of my life for a long time.

And not intending to get into the fray ... but just want to throw some food for thought out there related to some of the commentary about freedoms and politics.

No personal grudges or attacks on anyone here ... just a thumbnail history lesson for folks that may comment but may not have heard some of these thoughts.

It's all good.

I'm a person that just believes in life ... liberty and the pursuit of happiness!

ANYWAY I AGREE WITH KIM ON WHAT SHE SAID ... the topic is getting a bit "off topic" and I may have helped that occur (SORRY ALL)

SO for anyone wanting to visit the US be sure you do check out the latest updates and information at the TSA website and even your own country websites on all the updates and changes that are going on. They change constantly :-)

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Tom B

Banned 17 years ago

Originally Posted by RDGatchel

Thomas ...

Not "bitching" ... just commenting! I've been politically active since I was old enough to vote. I participate in local politics (since all politics are local :-) ) and keep informed about events in our country. I'm a member of the Heritage Foundation and read everything from the Economist to New Republic. And not particularly aligned with any particular political party or philosophy.

Bob, I wasn't attacking you and said so in a post above. I was just trying to make a point.

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RDGatchel 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Bob, I wasn't attacking you and said so in a post above. I was just trying to make a point.

I never considered it an attack! Your point was VERY valid!

It's all good buddy!
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Kim Standerline

17 years ago

Personally I think this is getting off topic. Politics always causes strife. Its a shame for everyone to be getting het up about this whatever their views

Martin posted something useful, lets get back to that

Kim

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falkinn

17 years ago

I went to america last year and i i´m from Iceland and i was kinda scared about all that lens thing that they have to photo your eye and put your fingerprint on a paper.

dont know that from anywhere else and now this... whats happening to America

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Tom B

Banned 17 years ago

Originally Posted by falkinn

I went to america last year and i i´m from Iceland and i was kinda scared about all that lens thing that they have to photo your eye and put your fingerprint on a paper.

dont know that from anywhere else and now this... whats happening to America

I bet it was scary. You want to know the real truth to that?

Well, we are closing our borders and not letting anyone in. To do that we will be cloning people to make sure we have a great mix of nationalities.

You just got cloned.

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garyv

17 years ago

I don't hear anyone here complaining about their recent vacations to Iran.... oh wait...

I really don't get the complaining. It's an electronic application that takes about 4 seconds to get approval. It took our forefathers months to travel here. I don't imagine they're rolling in their graves over this. However, if they were here, I could definitely see a Thomas Jefferson pimp slap to the back of the head, with a - "Quit ye complaining!".

Wow - we're actually switching to information to do our profiling, instead of skin color. What a step backwards in freedom for everyone.

Maybe we should just put cameras up everywhere so we won't have to worry about checking the entryway. What a violation of rights that would be! Oh wait.... what country already does that???

All countries have their own faults, at least we're working hard here to correct ours.

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jmidas 17 years ago

Its always fun to stir things up on a Monday. Just mention politics and the rest takes care of itself.
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Matt Hoey

17 years ago

Media, not just our media either, muslim media. there's a bandwagon of anti-americans who only hate america because it's a powerful country which is open to the world. Same with england.

It's the Russians and the other notorious few we need to be scared of.

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Kim Standerline

17 years ago

Maybe the reason Muslim countries hate the States and the UK so much is because we just can't help meddling in their countries!

Yes I agree Russia is becoming more of a force to contend against

Kim

Originally Posted by Matt Hoey

Media, not just our media either, muslim media. there's a bandwagon of anti-americans who only hate america because it's a powerful country which is open to the world. Same with england.

It's the Russians and the other notorious few we need to be scared of.

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

Maybe the reason Muslim countries hate the States and the UK so much is because we just can't help meddling in their countries!

Yes I agree Russia is becoming more of a force to contend against

Kim

so if we just live all Muslim countries they will leave us alone right? :rolleyes:

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Kim Standerline 17 years ago

I don't understand the question

But if you meant if we leave them all alone etc, that's not what I said

My reply was to the poster who mentioned Muslim countries hate the US and UK, my response was its probably because we seem to invade them on a regular basis.

it was obvious right from the start of the Iraqi invasion it would end in tears for both the UK and the US. There are many people in the UK who will never understand why Blair took us into such a pointless farcial situation.

BTW I'm proud, very proud of my country, it's the tosspots who run it that piss me off

Originally Posted by nhangen

so if we just live all Muslim countries they will leave us alone right? :rolleyes:
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Thomas

17 years ago

Originally Posted by nhangen

so if we just live all Muslim countries they will leave us alone right? :rolleyes:

I'll supply hijabs to anyone that wants one. A 2 for 1 deal. Can't be beat.

Any takers?

Any takers?

No?

Nobody?

Noone?

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ExRat

17 years ago

Hi,

Slightly off-topic (because I'm not going to spew any hate or suggest that I have any solutions to the world's problems.)

Here's how the system was working about four years ago.

I flew from Fiji into LA and I had the right (pre-prepared) paperwork for a tourist visit (whatever that was), but I wasn't aware that I needed to have an address of the place I was going to stay at. So as I got to that part on the form that you fill in on the plane, I was stuck - because I didn't have anywhere to stay - I was planning to sort that out as soon as I left the airport.

As we approached customs it turned out that there was another bloke with the same problem as me. We discussed what to do and didn't have a solution.

So we asked a lady from customs to advise us what to do. She informed us that anyone without an address on the form wasn't allowed in and could be refused entry and sent back/onwards.

I explained my plan to book somewhere as soon as possible, but she repeated the rules.

We were stuck in stalemate for a while, as she tried to work out what to do.

Eventually, she wrote the name and address of a hotel (that we weren't booked into) on both of our forms, and we were allowed into the country.

.....

It might have been that these rules were quite new and that they were experiencing 'teething problems.' But I find it silly that they had a rule, but they had no contingency for people with no prior address they were staying at, and the solution that was found, which was being made up on the spot by individuals, totally made of a mockery of having the 'rule' in the first place.

But I do understand, because I'm British and our beaurocratic mess is even worse.

I hope that they implement this new rule more efficiently.

PS I love everyone in the world, you're all great.

PPS

Hi nhangen,

I just cannot believe the amount of American hate among the educated on this forum

Just be careful that you're not seeing -

One person making some pretty strong statements
A few more with views that are similar, but not so strong
A few middle of the road types, with a few minor criticisms

...and then, putting all that together and saying what you just said (IE 'the amount of American hate').

Because if you make the error of turning criticism into hate, and exaggerating the quantities and the strength of the comments/feelings - then you make yourself a victim, someone who is trying to make it appear that everyone hates you when they don't. That's as bad a mistake as hating in the first place, and is the equivalent of 'playing the race card' when it's not appropriate.

Personally, I don't think Americans are hated any more than every other nationality is hated. Someone, somewhere, hates you - whoever you are. But no-one can claim the title of being the better hater, or the most hated.

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Shannon Herod

17 years ago

Proud to be an American!

If you do not like our rules stay out.

I served in the Army as an Infantry soldier and would still die for this country if need be.

I have lost a ton of respect for many people here today.

Shannon

Edit: This country is not perfect, is yours?

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

Proud to be an American!

If you do not like our rules stay out.

I served in the Army as an Infantry soldier and would still die for this country if need be.

I have lost a ton of respect for many people here today.

Shannon

Edit: This country is not perfect, is yours?

Amen brother.

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Ken Strong

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

If you do not like our rules stay out.

So criticism of inane and ineffective bureaucratic rules = hatred of America?

People are complaining because they WANT to come visit and the govt is making it increasingly difficult and complicated to do so.

The government is NOT the country. The government is a collection of humans who are elected, appointed, or hired, and those humans change places on a regular basis. It's a bureaucratic apparatus designed (ideally) to carry out a few essential functions for the population. It's not some kind of religious deity to be worshipped.

It is not required that we kiss the ass of authority to prove we love the country.

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Nathan Hangen

17 years ago

Originally Posted by KenStrong

So criticism of inane and ineffective bureaucratic rules = hatred of America?

People are complaining because they WANT to come visit and the govt is making it increasingly difficult and complicated to do so.

The government is NOT the country. The government is a collection of humans who are elected, appointed, or hired, and those humans change places on a regular basis. It's a bureaucratic apparatus designed (ideally) to carry out a few essential functions for the population. It's not some kind of religious deity to be worshipped.

It is not required that we kiss the ass of authority to prove we love the country.

No, I think you are confusing my posts with his. I think what he was saying was that if you don't like it, then don't stop by. I didn't see too many complaints in the thread about people wanting to come but not being able to. Most of what I saw was an obvious attempt to pile on or say such bigoted things as "there is no good food or culture."

You are right, no one has to love the government, but aside from a select few policy makers, the rest of the rule makers are just ordinary citizens trying to make their country a better place.

One policy does not a government make.

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Thomas 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

I have lost a ton of respect for many people here today.

Shannon,

If disagreeing with your point of view is all it takes for you to lose respect for someone, well... I don't quite know what to say. :confused:

Originally Posted by KenStrong

So criticism of inane and ineffective bureaucratic rules = hatred of America?

Of course, Ken, as long as you fill out form RF-174a in triplicate, submit 2 recently-taken passport-size photographs, and follow the standardised procedures described in section 56.4 of Appendix B of the 3rd Annual Report by the Committee for the Regulation Of Hatred of America.

Tommy.
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HeySal

17 years ago

Originally Posted by Shannon Herod

Proud to be an American!

If you do not like our rules stay out.

I served in the Army as an Infantry soldier and would still die for this country if need be.

I have lost a ton of respect for many people here today.

Shannon

Edit: This country is not perfect, is yours?

Our Rules should be in line with our Constitution -- you know, the document that all rules are to function within. You say you would die for this country - but would you die defending your fellow countrymen from our government if they institute a military dictatorship or will you help the government to violate the constitution and aid in the oppression of your own people? Make a choice because it shows signs of coming to the time you will have to.

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Nathan Hangen 17 years ago

Nah, don't worry about me. I'm much too stubborn and proud to be a victim. Maybe it is a psychotherapy session for Non-Americans and it needed to happen. I don't know, but my opinion about this forum has changed, good or bad, as a result.
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Richard Tunnah

17 years ago

According to a US embassy person this is to make things easier for travellers as they precheck you before arriving so no extra lines for visa checking and he also mentioned that the new online visa is valid for upto 2 years as long as your passport is valid for that long.

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ExRat 17 years ago

Hi,

Martin you bounder! The old 'make an innocent looking post that stirs up a shitstorm' trick. You've blown your cover now by exposing your wooden spoon in the previous post.

4-3
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Matt Hoey

17 years ago

The UK specially has become sanctuary for thousands of Muslims seeking asylum and we've done our best to integrate them into our society. After i 5/7 and 9/11 it was the natural reaction to stop being leanient on these countries.

I have a lot of gripes with invading the middle east and it's done us no good but look at what's happening now. President Mugabe(spelling?) has Zimbabwae in a terrible mess and people are calling for help. No one will help now, if america and UK libarated another country it would only end up in another media frenzy that we are the tyrants invading countries that are not our business.

So now people just die in the streets.

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Matt Hoey

17 years ago

Wikipedia currently states 1,600,000 muslims live in the UK. Maybe we sohuld have just turned them away. I don't think that's right, i want to help people and i don't want people being ruled by leaders who commit crimes against humanity, but for all our "meddling" we've only become the target for terrorism ourselves and now needless attacks on people who have no idea what's going on in other countries die because of it.

sorry, ranting now.

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Curt Dillion

17 years ago

Thomas Jefferson was a great defender of freedom. He would never have approved of what is happening here.

George Washington said that government rules by force. He didn't approve of it, but he understood it.

The US was set up as a perfect anarchy. That's right, an anarchy. Each citizen was supposed to be able to do anything he wanted to do, as long as it didn't hurt anyone else.

The Boston Tea Party was in retaliation for 3% tax. Now look at us. I think it's over 50%.

Do something about it? That's a good way to end up put away, or disappeared.

The US has become a police state, not to mention that, since 9/11, we live in a war zone. In a war zone the President can declare Marshall law at any time.

Personally, I would much prefer freedom to being over regulated. I got involved in the patriot movement in the mid 90's. Almost all of the people I was involved with, are now in prison. Some of them have never had charges filed against them.

I was at a meeting once where the speaker,who had previously been in law enforcement, had studied law, and quit. The man has been, and still is, very active. He has filed many types of criminal charges and such to exercise his freedom. He has been personally responsible for destroying the political careers of important officials who continually violated their oath of office.

I know this to be true because I know the speaker, along with names and dates. In those situations, he has filed liens against the bond of the offenders. In case you don't know, all elected officials are required to be bonded, but most of them don't know it.

Anyway, at this particular meeting he was teaching and advocating a certain strategy. I asked him what would happen if I actually did what he was advising. His answer cleared everything up for me. It was this: "You will go to jail."

That wasn't what I had in mind. I sort of have the idea that freedom and jail are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I knew I didn't need to take any advice from this guy. He had been in jail on many occasions, sometimes without charges. At different times, his life has been in jeopardy, and he has needed police protection from other police. No thanks. That's just crazy.

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Kim Standerline

17 years ago

Now that is scary

How the hell can we have allowed that to happen in countries like the US and the UK (yes we have the same laws)

For the poster who said about cameras in the UK, yes you're right, and it's a bloody worrying trend, I would imagine you'll be getting yours shortly

Kim

Originally Posted by Curt Dillion

Almost all of the people I was involved with, are now in prison. Some of them have never had charges filed against them.
crazy.

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TonyG2160

17 years ago

So......who's ready to talk about religion?

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topic-forum/37316-religious-political-topics-forbidden.html

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Ken Strong

17 years ago

Originally Posted by TonyG2160

So......who's ready to talk about religion?

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topic-forum/37316-religious-political-topics-forbidden.html

Sorry... it's forbidden to talk about how forbidden it is to talk about religion.

It's also forbidden to link to posts talking about how forbidden it is to talk about religion.

Thanks
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Thomas

17 years ago

Originally Posted by KenStrong

Sorry... it's forbidden to talk about how forbidden it is to talk about religion.

It's also forbidden to link to posts talking about how forbidden it is to talk about religion.

I forbid you to say another word!

Thanks
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Ken Strong 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas

I forbid you to say another word!

It's also forbidden to forbid talk of how forbidden it is to talk about how forbidden it is to talk about religion.
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Banned 17 years ago

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Martin Luxton

17 years ago

One important thing I'm learning from this thread is that I should never take anything for granted.

Legal disclaimer: the USA and the UK are two of the best countries in the world to live in.

However, they won't be if we let politicians in both countries continue the way they are going.

Let's look at my country, the UK, and how the government has 'improved' democracy.

They abolished the right to opt for trial by jury in certain cases because it was "too expensive".

The government fought the European court for the right to keep DNA samples of people who were arrested but never charged.

Every year they press for longer and longer periods of detention without charge. They say it's to battle terrorism but they have used anti-terrorist powers in cases unrelated to terrorism, the most recent one being when an opposition Member of Parliament was arrested.

Compulsory identity cards are coming soon. Why? To fight terrorism, of course.

I think this poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller is something we always need to keep in our minds.

In Germany, they came first for the Communists,

And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists,

And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews,

And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . .

And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

Martin

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ExRat 17 years ago

Hi,

{quietly sitting in the audience, nodding}

Martin,

They also changed a lot of far-reaching laws, in order that Cherie could make millions by representing people in court doing such 'important' things as children suing our schools (the taxpayer) for 'atrocities' such as not allowing children to wear 'headgear' while in lessons, along with many other 'rights' issues.

Prime minister changes laws (with pretty bad consequences) so that -

Prime minister's wife can make money from -

Suing the state.

Has there ever been a more open/transparent conspiracy theory?

And now we can't make our own laws without asking Brussels for permission. And if Brussels decides to, they can force us to change our laws upon their say.
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