Is the Warrior Forum losing popularity?

The WF isn't losing popularity - it's a victim of it's own success.

It's a highly profitable marketplace - and the commercialization of the WSO section in particular and the addition of the outside WSO affiliate programs added to that commercial value.

Instead of joining for advice/help/support - people are told to join to make money HERE on the forum. The main forum used to contain thread after thread of practical business advice - now it's a newbie forum. Not a surprising change - and one we could see coming years ago.

The popularity remains - but it's a different demographic perhaps.

Some of us old timers have retired down here to the basement for the most part.

I was going to stay out of the "bullying" discussion but having been on both
ends of it and being about as unbiased as I could be at this stage of my life,
I'm going to throw in my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth to you.

If I've learned anything in life it's that there are two sides to every argument.

When I first got here, having finally had a decent taste of success after about
3 years of marketing online (started in 2003) I thought I was some kind of big
shot because I was making more money than I'd ever made at a job. So I was
determined to share my "genius" with this forum come hell or high water.

Well, a few of the "really smart marketers" tried to put me in my place in a not
so nice way because they saw some holes in my "business plan" as much as it
was one. I took this personally and accused them of "bullying" and "picking" on
me. As Les pointed out in another thread here, always the victim.

Long story short, just recently my business plan went down the crapper and
pretty much everything that the "bullies" pointed out about it was correct.
It WAS a house of cards just ready to come tumbling down.

In essence, they were trying to protect other members from falling into the
trap that I had fallen into. Sure, I had a lot of success for about 8 years. But
when Google changed the rules suddenly, not building my own virtual real
estate and instead relying on 3rd party sites, I had no business.

Could these members been a little nicer about how they "ridiculed" me? Maybe.
But then maybe the message wouldn't have gotten through to the other
members.

In hindsight, everybody who pretty much ripped me to shreds here was right
on the money.

If it's any consolation to all these people who clearly made it no secret that
they detested my very presence, I'm now broke and pretty much fighting for
survival, yet again. Except this time I learned from my mistakes. I'm building
a real site and a real business. It may take some time to establish itself as one
of the main sites in this area (royalty free music) but it'll get there. I am fully
committed to it and will do it right this time. No relying on EZA or YouTube or
any one site.

The point is this. Before you look at somebody and say they're bullying or
whatever, you might want to take a look at what's actually going on.

In the cases of newbies asking questions, a lot of times these people are
asking things like "How can I make a lot of money in 24 hours?" It's these
constant unrealistic expectations that sets members off because they're
sick and tired of all these people looking for the quick score and not wanting
to put the time into actually building a business. I myself have little patience
or tolerance for these folks. I started working on my new business on 9/4. It
is now 10/23. I've written and recorded 355 tracks during that time (an
average of over 7 a day) and have yet to make a dime. I understand that
things take time. I'm not looking for a quick score. So when members come
here asking how they can make gobs of money in a day, I see red.

Can we handle it better than we do? Maybe. But after a while, being human,
you reach a point where you've had enough and just want to strangle some
of these people. And certainly when somebody comes here with one of their
shady or unstable business plans we want to put them in their place, just like
what was done to me 7 years ago.

Why? Because ultimately we don't want to see the innocent bystanders get
caught in the whirlwind. Some people will hear something, think it sounds good
because they have no experience, and dive right in, not realizing that it is
indeed a house of cards or worse, a scam.

This past year has been very humbling to me. If anyone were to come to me
for business advice right now I'd honestly tell them that I'm the last person
they should come to. But I would tell them to build a real business. If they
asked me what that is I would simply point them to some sites that are real
businesses.

Having said all that, human nature being what it is, it's not going to change.
The anonymity of the Internet makes it very easy for many people to just
be plain old nasty simply because there are no repercussions. You say
something mean to somebody, what are they gonna do?

For this reason I try to stay out of any conversations where I'm likely to have
my head handed to me, though telling about how sad I was that I had to
sell my record collection was one topic I never thought would ever provoke
some of the responses that I got, which further proves my point. Some people
just enjoy ragging on you. You can develop a thick skin and ignore it (something
I have yet to be able to do) or you can let yourself get sucked into a knock
down drag out.

Finally, and this is something I can't believe nobody has pointed out. It's been
said that the forum is losing popularity at least in part because of the bullies.
But isn't it quite possible that (1) the forum actually hasn't lost popularity or
(2) if it has, it's because of some completely different reason like, oh, I don't
know. Maybe things just change?

The Garden State Bowling alley was the biggest bowling alley in the state
of NJ. It was almost constantly packed.

Today, it's gone.

We don't live in a static world. Things change. That's why my business
tanked. Article directories (which I put all my eggs in) got whacked by
Google and my house of cards came tumbling down.

Some people in my situation would blame Google for being mean to article
directories.

I blame myself for being an idiot.

Like I said, two sides to every argument.

Mike, I don't have time to go through the forum and pull out every example of when someones been a complete a**hole. Do your own search. They're not hard to find.

Thanks and that was the point I was trying to make. If we start speaking up and saying, ENOUGH!, this place will be a much more pleasant place to hang out where "everyone's" opinion would be at the least respected, even if not agreed on.

Learning to stand up to them is a part of success. Learning to deal with them is admitting to failure and rewarding them for their bad behavior.

Is that what you tell a young girl that's been raped? "Sorry, you need to quit whining and learn to have thick skin." Sorry but that doesn't work in business either. Having someone disagree with you helps you develop thick skin. Enabling a bully does not. It is cowardly.

Isn't that a bit harsh?

Yes there's at least one on this thread. Pot meet kettle.

Who is them? You are being the "bully" now with your attitude.

It's also idiocy (excuse the jerk coming out) to equate these spats on this forum to rape.

Mark

Fascinating. You failed to actually respond to almost any of the points made, and the one you did attempt to answer is right back to the original vague and unproductive approach.

I pointed out the subjective nature of the word as it applies to a forum. Your comment suggests you would be satisified with whatever standard I chose to use, which is at odds with your original complaint.

This is a fairly common debating tactic. Put forth an allegation, but couch it in sufficiently nebulous terms that you can't be pinned down, because you haven't actually said anything of substance. Is it?

How many different definitions and standards do you suppose there are for just this one issue among the tens of thousands of active members in this forum? How restrictive do you feel the mods should be? Do we limit things to words a sensitive 3rd grader wouldn't be offended by? Or do we go with a level of commentary more apt for a biker crowd? Where is the line drawn?

This is hardly a "simple" choice, by most definitions of the word. Well, it isn't if you're the one who actually has to make that decision. But hey... it's easy for folks who don't have to think in terms of specific impacts arising from nearly every action.


Paul

Quite simply, because if I worded it that way, I'd be a hypocrite on a couple of levels. I wouldn't be acting diplomatically, and I'd be guilty of trying to bully someone into being diplomatic by threatening them with an ultimatum. Isn't that what bullies do? Threaten people? I'd rather make note of their response in a nonthreatening, lighthearted, friendly way.


I'm glad you're vested, but may I recommend trying to change the forum for the better by being an example and role model rather than a finger pointer? Being a hallway monitor without the proper credentials tends to rub people the wrong way.

Terra

Wow, by your definition, a lot of jerks just got let off the hook. I suppose if one does not beat their wife than they could never commit spouse abuse right? That's how absurd your argument is. The problem is that this is also a forum about business. I'm sorry to tell you but the standard in here and how the mods let some of the senior members talk to the others is not how you conduct yourself in the business world. So, you can say "I have the right to say anything I want, etc because of free speech..." if you want to but it doesn't mean it's defined as good behavior nor should it be encouraged or supported in this forum. When one of these bullies starts attacking someone for asking an innocent question, he should be called out on it. And if it continues, he should be banned.

ROTHFLMAO, Thanks Thomas, I needed that

roflmao...

In 13 years or so I've seen all kinds of rudeness, jerks, etc.

Let me give you a couple examples:

My personal opinion is that condescending, unhelpful attitude was uncalled for. Borderline jerk, troll, etc.

I've never seen much more than that, seriously.

I have seen where people were ripped off and the mob mentality says "he lives a couple cities over, let's pay him a visit and get our refund".

I've also seen a couple cases where someone says something like "you are tough behind that username, let's do a meet up and see how tough you really are".

Both of those are clearly wrong because it indicates violence may be planned.

I've seen newbies asking how to make $1,000 a month to get out of debt be ridiculed because they have a signature that says you can make $1,000 with this easy, peasy ebook they are selling. I think that is appropriate. Does the OP feel bad. Of course - they are a scammer in a sense.

I've seen people being told to Google it. That is appropriate because many people expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter.

I called your comparison to rape idiocy. I think that is the truth and don't feel an apology is needed.

So again what exactly is bullying? What are you fighting against?

Mark

And that's coming from the devil. A horny one at that. Ha-ha!

I mentioned earlier that we act when it's over the line, as the mods draw it. I also mentioned that we don't play babysitter. If you start reporting trivial rudenesses, you can expect your reports to be ignored.

If you wish to present a difference of opinion on where the lines should be drawn as "looking the other way," feel free. It won't accomplish much, but it will probably make you feel vindicated and righteous.


Paul

Paul, you don't like me and I don't like you. We've established that. But I do respect your attempt to "try" and deal with aggressive behavior if in fact you do according to this post. But I've got to say, there are so many "jerks" (since you don't like the word bully) that still need to be controlled. They're ruining this forum for a lot of people. Aggressively jumping on people that ask innocent questions is uncalled for. Can you imagine someone walking in your office to get business advice and (regardless of how silly you think the question is) treating them with such aggression. This really is a no-brainer. But the so many of these overly-aggressive types have set the norm in here and quite frankly I sometimes wonder whether people are scared to stand up to them.

Glad to hear it.


I assume rightly that a few new members may have taken blunt advice in the wrong way. Advice that was endorsed and "thanked" by several long term and respected WF members. However, that is the past, this is not the place to be rekindling it, and this thread is now overdue closure as it's starting to recycle itself.


It wasn't meant in the literal sense. I'm sure you knew that, but you do love to put your point across.

Thanks for the diplomatic reply. I think the disconnect is that you see it as a place where there are time when it's OK to treat someone so aggressively and I see it no different than the business world itself. This stuff just doesn't happen in the office. You talk to anyone in my company that aggressively and with such intimidation and you're out. Period. And it's like that in most professional companies. But for some reason, everyone wants a pass in here, regardless of the fact that this is still a forum that revolves around business.

It sounds like someone that is speaking to the root of the problem.

Well really, what does that sound like to you?

You can buy some here, and help out my son's boy scout troop at the same time

Trail's End Popcorn