Time is a direction in space.

Banned 12 years ago

Interesting Dennis.

I was watching “The Terminator” the other day and thinking how on Earth something could travel in time. (Theoretically speaking.)

Then I realized that The Universe isn't unfolding in a linear fashion. Instead of thinking about it like “A - B” it’s more like “A+B+C”.

(That probably doesn't make any sense by the way. ;-)

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0

Interesting Dennis.

I was watching “The Terminator” the other day and thinking how on Earth something could travel in time. (Theoretically speaking.)

Then I realized that The Universe isn't unfolding in a linear fashion. Instead of thinking about it like “A - B” it’s more like “A+B+C”.

(That probably doesn't make any sense by the way. ;-)

Are you saying dimensionally as well? A= Spatial location, B = "time" C = Dimension.

I'm very fond of that idea myself. I believe "real" time is something that is just a bleed over to us "down in the 3rd Dimension" from the higher dimensions. That's why we can't perceive of it in any other form but linear. I believe light and electricity are bleeds as well.

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Jonathan 2.0

Banned 12 years ago

Something like that Sal. ;-)

It's an interesting topic. I'll have to look into more of that/your theory.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Are you saying dimensionally as well? A= Spatial location, B = "time" C = Dimension.

I'm very fond of that idea myself. I believe "real" time is something that is just a bleed over to us "down in the 3rd Dimension" from the higher dimensions. That's why we can't perceive of it in any other form but linear. I believe light and electricity are bleeds as well.

Hmmm, possibly! :rolleyes:

It could be that experiments where a particle travels at light speed then disappears for a time and comes back, is showing us that right angle to 3 dimensional time/space.

Or ordinary matter is for a short time going into 4 dimensional space, or subspace to coin a Star Trek phrase.

But with string theory, everything that exists probably already has its toes into up to 10 dimensions already?

That is the current theory about how gravity exists, normal matter shearing itself against higher dimensions and creating the illusion of weight!

Its funny that all experiments that show this result, are never conclusively proven to exist, and if an experiment is conducted it is shown to be faulty equipment.

Probably has something to do with the Philadelphia experiment and the subsequent space, time tunnel experiments!

As usual the truly cool science is all buried in Area 51!

Shane

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David Braybrooke

12 years ago

Talking about the great Stephen Hawking, this article caught my eye. Worth a read! - The man who proved Stephen Hawking wrong - Telegraph

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lcombs

12 years ago

It still begs the question; What was before the Big Bang?

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

It still begs the question; What was before the Big Bang?

Dimensions. Matter being shot into the third dimension from higher dimensions. I believe in multiple universes. The third dimension is not much different to higher ones than the second is to us, I would think.

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Midnight Oil 12 years ago

Time is a Flat Circle

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
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lcombs

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Dimensions. Matter being shot into the third dimension from higher dimensions. I believe in multiple universes. The third dimension is not much different to higher ones than the second is to us, I would think.

I don't believe in higher or lower dimensions.
Everything is everywhere at the "time".
To say there are higher or lower dimensions is linear.
By definition it excludes infinity.
For example: What is before the first dimension?

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

I don't believe in higher or lower dimensions.
Everything is everywhere at the "time".
To say there are higher or lower dimensions is linear.
By definition it excludes infinity.
For example: What is before the first dimension?

It's not linear at all. Each dimension encompasses the dimension below it within it. Just like the first and second dimension exist as a portion of the third. I'm not sure why you are thinking "linear". Linear isn't a dimensional concept - it's a universal one. Whether you believe in other dimensions or not, makes no difference in their existence. You are free to come up with the mathematical codes to disprove them.

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lcombs

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

It's not linear at all. Each dimension encompasses the dimension below it within it. Just like the first and second dimension exist as a portion of the third. I'm not sure why you are thinking "linear". Linear isn't a dimensional concept - it's a universal one. Whether you believe in other dimensions or not, makes no difference in their existence. You are free to come up with the mathematical codes to disprove them.

I believe in other dimensions.
It's the numerical value you assign them that I question.
Numbers imply value. Low to high, side to side. Linear.

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heavysm

12 years ago

This is particularly interesting because I am taking a class called philosophy of space and time as an undergrad in university.

My mind get blown in class daily, more so because I'm personally more of an ethics philosopher than science/physics phil guy.

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David Maschke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by heavysm

This is particularly interesting because I am taking a class called philosophy of space and time as an undergrad in university.

My mind get blown in class daily, more so because I'm personally more of an ethics philosopher than science/physics phil guy.

The scientists over at DARPA that make destructive weapons don't have any ethics or philosophy. The greatest law in the universe is things tend to even out :p So in a way, you're actually helping out.

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Dimensions. Matter being shot into the third dimension from higher dimensions. I believe in multiple universes. The third dimension is not much different to higher ones than the second is to us, I would think.

There are some interesting theories in this area, but the most accepted ones maintain that there is one "universe" containing an infinite number of "worlds."

Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic

There are some interesting theories in this area, but the most accepted ones maintain that there is one "universe" containing an infinite number of "worlds."

Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually - it's very accepted throughout physics that there are 10 dimensions. There are other theories, but the accepted one states 10 dimensions. Multiple universes is as accepted as the single universe theory - possibly a little more. String theory would account for an infinite number of universes.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Actually - it's very accepted throughout physics that there are 10 dimensions. There are other theories, but the accepted one states 10 dimensions. Multiple universes is as accepted as the single universe theory - possibly a little more. String theory would account for an infinite number of universes.

Mystics agree with the limited dimensions theory, although they tend to think that 7 is more accurate.

If l remember correctly 3 are above ours and the rest are below.

Although the lower ones, have offshoots.

And the best we can do is to briefly look directly at these dimensions, with present tech,.

Shane

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Actually - it's very accepted throughout physics that there are 10 dimensions.

I thought Michio Kaku's theory was prevalent at the moment?
It was his final great achievement, his "E=MC²"?
When did one of the dimensions get demoted, and which one was it?
(Probably the same *******s that bullied Pluto into submission?

)

Michio Kaku: The Multiverse Has 11 Dimensions -...

But I do find it amusing how crazy the pseudo-intellectuals get
about the reality of time/space travel. At Comicpalooza 2013 I watched
in abject humour as two great nerd minds got in a huge argument
over whether or not time travel was allowed in their futuristic RPG?

They both sought my support for their cause, and all I could think was:

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey...Stuff - YouTube

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

I thought Michio Kaku's theory was prevalent at the moment?
It was his final great achievement, his "E=MC²"?
When did one of the dimensions get demoted, and which one was it?
(Probably the same *******s that bullied Pluto into submission?

)

Michio Kaku: The Multiverse Has 11 Dimensions - YouTube

But I do find it amusing how crazy the pseudo-intellectuals get
about the reality of time/space travel. At Comicpalooza 2013 I watched
in abject humour as two great nerd minds got in a huge argument
over whether or not time travel was allowed in their futuristic RPG?

They both sought my support for their cause, and all I could think was:

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey...Stuff - YouTube

So I'm behind physicists by a dimension or two, huh? Go figure. If Michio says 11 - I fully believe him. I adore that guy's brain. Rest of him isn't bad either.

BTW - it's not MC², it's Mc² --- speed of light is indicated with a small c not a cap. I have no clue what cap C stands for.

See, these "disappearing" particles are exactly why I think the dimensions interact. I don't think they just appear into existence and disappear out of it -- I think the pass through the 3rd dimension. I'd need a physicist to be able to provide the math to support that, though. It works on a logical basis, though. You can't "non-exist" energy - you can only transform it, so it's got to go somewhere.

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Jack Gordon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

It works on a logical basis, though. You can't "non-exist" energy - you can only transform it, so it's got to go somewhere.

I don't have time to share the math right now, but there is actually a good explanation for this too.

In a nutshell, those energy particles attach to the left socks in your dryer and briefly hitch a ride out of our dimension. Sometimes they come back, sometimes they don't. Depends on your socks.

There is a wild, unproven theory that some energy can leave this dimension attached to your keys as well, but I think that's crazy.

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bizgrower

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

I don't have time to share the math right now, but there is actually a good explanation for this too.

In a nutshell, those energy particles attach to the left socks in your dryer and briefly hitch a ride out of our dimension. Sometimes they come back, sometimes they don't. Depends on your socks.

There is a wild, unproven theory that some energy can leave this dimension attached to your keys as well, but I think that's crazy.

Keys are taken by poltergeists. Definitely. Heard it on the radio.

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Hopeless Bromantic 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

BTW - it's not MC², it's Mc² --- speed of light is indicated with a small c not a cap. I have no clue what cap C stands for.

Celsius or Coulomb, generally.
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Jack Gordon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

It still begs the question; What was before the Big Bang?

There is actually a very good answer to that.

Nobody knows, and it doesn't matter.

The BB theory says that for all intents and purposes, the universe as we know it started decisively at that moment, 14 billion years ago.

It is entirely plausible that there may have been an infinite number of previous iterations of the universe before, possibly even with very different set of physical laws. But when they collapsed under their own weight, they were completely replaced with another universe. And another. And then another. After each collapse, there is a new big bang, then an expansion, then a contraction and a collapse. And the cycle repeats.

And now, our universe is the only one that matters. And, it is entirely possible that a day will come when our universe stops expanding and begins contracting. That contraction will last many billions of years, picking up speed until our universe has collapsed into itself.

And then another big bang will occur, followed by an expansion, and possible life that will look to the stars and try to contemplate our existence.

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Any mention of the word Time is a waste of time.

There is no time, only the eternal now. Man-made concept designed to get people up for work.

Using time in equations is a fallacy.

Don't ask me to elaborate as I have forgotten how I reached that conclusion. I will have to get back to you.

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Any mention of the word Time is a waste of time.
Don't ask me to elaborate as I have forgotten how I reached that conclusion. I will have to get back to you.

Take your time.
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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

Trying to apply 'shape' to infinity is an exercise in futility.

Not really, our minds can't handle infinity in a linear, beginning and no end kind of way; but curve it around into a circle and we don't have an issue with it.

You could walk around a circle forever!

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

There is actually a very good answer to that.

Nobody knows, and it doesn't matter.

The BB theory says that for all intents and purposes, the universe as we know it started decisively at that moment, 14 billion years ago.

It is entirely plausible that there may have been an infinite number of previous iterations of the universe before, possibly even with very different set of physical laws. But when they collapsed under their own weight, they were completely replaced with another universe. And another. And then another. After each collapse, there is a new big bang, then an expansion, then a contraction and a collapse. And the cycle repeats.

And now, our universe is the only one that matters. And, it is entirely possible that a day will come when our universe stops expanding and begins contracting. That contraction will last many billions of years, picking up speed until our universe has collapsed into itself.

And then another big bang will occur, followed by an expansion, and possible life that will look to the stars and try to contemplate our existence.

I always find this funny, before the big bang we had some waves of energy merge together, blah, blah, blah.

Doesn't matter how hard we try, something has to exist in order to create further things that create a big bang.

But of course something intelligent can't exist, unless the infrastructure exists initially so it can develop from that, or to put it another way, nothing should exist.

Since we exist, it proves there are things that we will have a hard time trying to figure out!

I can see where Dougles Adams got his ideas from...

Maybe l should just make a really strong cup of tea, and it will all make sense?

Shane

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lcombs

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

There is actually a very good answer to that.

Nobody knows, and it doesn't matter.

The BB theory says that for all intents and purposes, the universe as we know it started decisively at that moment, 14 billion years ago.

It is entirely plausible that there may have been an infinite number of previous iterations of the universe before, possibly even with very different set of physical laws. But when they collapsed under their own weight, they were completely replaced with another universe. And another. And then another. After each collapse, there is a new big bang, then an expansion, then a contraction and a collapse. And the cycle repeats.

And now, our universe is the only one that matters. And, it is entirely possible that a day will come when our universe stops expanding and begins contracting. That contraction will last many billions of years, picking up speed until our universe has collapsed into itself.

And then another big bang will occur, followed by an expansion, and possible life that will look to the stars and try to contemplate our existence.

I thought that was whole point of the study of physics.
Apparently SOMEBODY thinks it matters, and they want to know.

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Jack Gordon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

I thought that was whole point of the study of physics.
Apparently SOMEBODY thinks it matters, and they want to know.

Sure, it matters in the sense that there are people with curiosity.

But in a physical sense, there has probably never been anything that mattered less.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

Sure, it matters in the sense that there are people with curiosity.

But in a physical sense, there has probably never been anything that mattered less.

Your post has logic. It flows form one idea to another. Your meaning is clear, and concise. And you do not sound insane.

I'm sorry, you'll have to leave.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

Sure, it matters in the sense that there are people with curiosity.

But in a physical sense, there has probably never been anything that mattered less.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your post has logic. It flows form one idea to another. Your meaning is clear, and concise. And you do not sound insane.

I'm sorry, you'll have to leave.

Jack, you're welcome to stay if you'll just give Claude a stroke now and then. Any kind of whip will do.

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HeySal 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

Sure, it matters in the sense that there are people with curiosity.

But in a physical sense, there has probably never been anything that mattered less.

If you look at advancements made because of findings that resulted from humans questioning the nature of existence, I'd say that it is the question that matters the most to humankind. It might not bring us guarantees of, or means for, eternal life, but it can make life hella easier for us while we're here.
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lcombs 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

Sure, it matters in the sense that there are people with curiosity.

But in a physical sense, there has probably never been anything that mattered less.

Yeah, well, you'll think it matters when we get caught up in an inter-dimensional war! :p
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Kurt

12 years ago

I still believe the universe has a beginning in real time, at the big bang. But there's another kind of time, imaginary time, at right angles to real time, in which the universe has no beginning or end.
- Stephen Hawking

Here's my perpendicular universes!

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seasoned

12 years ago

Reqarding the sphere circle theory, wouldn't it make more sense if it were a SERIES of circles, like on a Computer Assisted Tomography(AKA CAT scan) machine? If they saw a single circle, they would be missing SO much.

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lcombs

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Reqarding the sphere circle theory, wouldn't it make more sense if it were a SERIES of circles, like on a Computer Assisted Tomography(AKA CAT scan) machine? If they saw a single circle, they would be missing SO much.

Steve

Trying to apply 'shape' to infinity is an exercise in futility.

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David Maschke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I still believe the universe has a beginning in real time, at the big bang. But there's another kind of time, imaginary time, at right angles to real time, in which the universe has no beginning or end. -Stephen Hawking

It's called daylight savings time, and it starts next weekend if I'm not mistaken

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Basant Kumar

12 years ago

its awesome discussion for me thank to every body ....

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JimDucharme

12 years ago

And space is a moment in time.

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Richard Van 12 years ago

I've come on here today and so far I've looked through a thread with men wearing skirts and women built like Arnie and now this brain bender.

I think I might have to have a lie down.
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lcombs

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JimDucharme

And space is a moment in time.

I thought time was a moment in space.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

I thought time was a moment in space.

Time is the fire in which we burn.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Time is the fire in which we burn.

One of my favorite Gene Roddenberry quotes.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

One of my favorite Gene Roddenberry quotes.

I heard it in Star Trek Generations. It was said by Malcolm McDowell.

When I heard it, I thought "Man, that sounds great".

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I heard it in Star Trek Generations. It was said by Malcolm McDowell.

When I heard it, I thought "Man, that sounds great".

I first came across it on a quotation site. I thought it was great too. It went straight into my quotations collection. Do you remember if that's the exact phrase you heard? I've seen two ways, one like you wrote and one with "...we all burn." It's possible, I suppose, he used it both ways at different times.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I first came across it on a quotation site. I thought it was great too. It went straight into my quotations collection. Do you remember if that's the exact phrase you heard? I've seen two ways, one like you wrote and one with "...we all burn." It's possible, I suppose, he used it both ways at different times.

Dennis; I remember it (and have seen it a few times) as "time is the fire in which we burn".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IjpWrs7ZWc

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Time is the fire in which we burn.

I thought fire was the byproduct of burning time.

Terra
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- Claude Whitacre 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  I thought fire was the byproduct of burning time.
  
  Terra
  
  Terra; Stop it. Stop it now. Now you're just being silly.
  
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JimDucharme 12 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

I thought time was a moment in space.

I don't have the space now to argue about time.
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bizgrower

12 years ago

"Concepts of the Universe

First hour guest, author and theoretical physicist Alan Lightman talked about different concepts of the universe. There may be lots of different universes, and we just happen to be on one that allows life as know it, he remarked. The Universe has a temporary quality, with stars burning out, and everything eventually fading away, which contrasts with human beings' longing for permanence, he continued. Lightman also discussed the notion of a 'gargantuan' universe-- our telescopes have picked up light from galaxies that are so far away that its taken billions of years for that light to travel here."

Lightman (Light man - interesting name for this topic) is an MIT professor. Guest on CoastToCoast. Before I fell asleep, I heard him say that there may be more than one universe and universes won't collide because they are in their own time zones.

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David Maschke

12 years ago

I've been wondering, for about two weeks now, if time would exist at absolute zero. Zero movement and nothing changes. Nothing alive to perceive time. No electro-magnetic radiation given off by anything, of course.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

I've been wondering, for about two weeks now, if time would exist at absolute zero. Zero movement and nothing changes. Nothing alive to perceive time. No electro-magnetic radiation given off by anything, of course.

Since matter is just a clump of vibrating energy, I don't think that anything could exist in a true state of "nonmotion". It would have to be an empty vacuum for time to not exist.

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David Maschke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Since matter is just a clump of vibrating energy, I don't think that anything could exist in a true state of "nonmotion". It would have to be an empty vacuum for time to not exist.

That's what I found when I looked for an answer. Stupid Quantum Mechanics. Who elected the people when those laws were passed anyway?

I found it fascinating how those vibrations seem to move in and out of reality.

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Time is a direction in space.

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