Using a JV for Leadgen - the Intelligent Alternative to Cold Calling.

16 replies
What is a JV?
A Joint Venture is simply where two or more parties get together to leverage each others assets for mutual benefit. An example is a service provider, such as a web developer, makes an offer to their own accountant's customers for website design. The web developer gets access to a large number of prospects and the accountant gets perhaps a share in the profits or whatever other benefit that can be negotiated.

There are many reasons to use a JV over cold calling. The two I'll highlight here are credibility and leverage.

Credibility:
If you have a choice between someone selling you something and a recommendation from a friend or business associate, which would you tend to favour? The salesman is clearly there to sell you something, he wants something from you. The friend or business associate isn't obviously out to gain. The credibility of the recommendation is dependant on your trust in the friend or business associate, but there's almost always going to be more trust in a friend or business associate than a stranger trying to sell you something.

Leverage:
Cold calling is always a one to one activity. You can't conference call with a sales pitch (or maybe you can...? :-)). With a JV you're putting your sales message in front of a lot more people in one go. An example, the printer we did a JV with when we started our SEM business gave us 25 paying clients within a few weeks. With one offer. And that doesn't include those prospects we turned down. Using Nathan's figures, from his WSO, we'd have to make 25,000 calls to get that many clients. And that would take 25 weeks - 6 months of cold calling.

Types of JV.
There are many ways to do a JV, only limited by your imagination. Here are three common ones:

Profit Share.
In this you agree to share the profit from any sale. You'll want to be generous with your partner and a 50/50 split is common. But it can be anything you can negotiate. Sometimes you can barter your services instead. We bartered our SEO services for access to the Printer's customer list (and later, printing credits).

Educational Offer.
This is where you send something out that is educational and of perceived value to your JV partner's customers. Rather than money, the JV partner gains prestige and trust by doing something for their clients that is perceived as valuable.

Cross Promotion.
Each partner promotes each others services to their own customers, usually with a special offer. Really only suitable if you have roughly equal sized customer lists.

Finding Partners.
Best starting point is to start with people you already have a relationship with. This might be friends, family or businesses you already have some form of relationship with. e.g. your accountant. Like all marketing, you need to look at the arrangement from their point of view - what's in it for them?

You will want to look at what sort of customers they typically have. Your plumber might only deal with householders, so an offer of web design to their customer list won't go very far! :-) Think about the type of business that will have the type of customers you want.

You'll also want to think about how the prospective JV partner is viewed in the community. Do they have a good reputation? Are they visible, high profile? The more people who recognise them, the better the results.

Approaching Partners.
Here's an example, posted by Ewan, you could use to approach JV partners.

You'll notice on the second page there is a reference to a previous successful JV partnership. In order to get a case study to include you just need to approach someone you already know, as already mentioned.


The Offer.
The offer should be special and specific to your JV partner's customers. It might consist of a discount or added value. It should have limits - a time limit or a limited quantity or both.

The other thing it should have is broad appeal. If you were to offer web design for instance, then your response will likely be low. This is because at any given time, there's only a small percentage of the market ready to buy at any given time. So you need to grab their attention and persuade them that they want to buy now. There's an example of what I mean in this post

A few years back I was doing some work for a locksmith. we sent out 6x9 mailers to every commercial facility in a rather large area. "When was the last time you had your locks changed?" How many employees that no longer work for you may have a spare key? kind of thing... the response rate was silly!
Instead of saying "Hey we're locksmiths, these are the services we provide...", they raised an issue that they felt would get the attention of those who weren't even thinking about locksmiths. And the result was a lot of calls. If they simply offered locksmiths services, the response would have been far more limited.

So your offer must be broad enough to get the attention of people who are not necessarily looking for your services right now.

That'll have to do for now as I'm needed elsewhere...
#alternative #calling #cold #intellegent #leadgen
  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    I have done this for years, just don't call it a JV...but of course it takes some skills to be able to even present it or sell it.

    and those skills are - picking up a phone....or being able to walk in a door...or getting out to networking events.

    I have "put together" day spas and salons with appropriate non competes for many years...it is a basic part of marketing

    I do see a problem with "profit sharing" as I am not a bean counter and I feel too many biz are not immediate enough to make that feasible. I am not going to run around and chase leads

    However...your continued contempt of cold calling is really funny to me and more suited to a UK forum where you can all boo hoo together about your laws which do not apply to the US

    Making your whole deal about putting down cold calling is really off putting.

    If your idea is so great then why do you want to put down something else?


    Most cold calls I make today I have a Lead in cause I met the person or was referred or network with them. But if I had to I can walk in any phone room and be "hired" on the spot or over the phone. It is a basic ability in order to work offline. Your anti calling deal means that it will be harder to put together what you call a "JV"
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Good post Animal, glad you decided to do it!

    I'm not as anti-cold calling as you, I think it's still something that can generate business but my biggest problem with it is that you can't scale, not by yourself at least. You also don't have compounding interest happening in your marketing. If you're putting out content, and doing more long term things, the leads continue to come in even when you're not actively marketing or implementing campaigns.

    Once you stop cold calling... you stop generating leads. Not very long term at all.

    The JV approach is something that's used by so many different companies out there, online and offline. Not long ago Office Max and GoDaddy teamed up on some sort of deal, I forget what it was.

    Strategic relationships should be a goal of everybody that's growing a business.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Google and Vistaprint are sending out mail
      in 1 piece being used today.

      Leadpages are sending out direct mail...
      I'm trying to recall who they are teaming up with.

      Recently I approached 60 businesses
      who had the same target audience as I do
      and offered them to do a mailer for the 3 of us.

      They were told...

      team up with myself and another biz owner on a impossible to miss mailer.

      These 1,000 retailers it's going to are in Orange County
      1 to 10 million dollars in revenue
      5 to 50 employees
      1 to 5 years old
      Locally owned

      No automotive
      No food
      No bars
      No entertainment/tourism
      No travel

      They get to reach their target audience at half the price if going it alone
      and I reach them at no cost.

      I chose 1 to 5 year old businesses that were doing that kind of revenue
      for 2 reasons...

      1 They more likely open to new ideas in their marketing

      2 Upside to grow with them.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    I updated the post ("Approaching Partners") to include a link to Ewan's approach letter example. This letter demonstrates that your approach doesn't have to be a cold call (and IMHO shouldn't be).

    And I'm not so much anti cold calling as enthusiastic about JVs. JVs have made me more money than any other "thing" that I've ever tried...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
    This post is awesome, I remember when you were talking about doing this in another thread.

    Referral/Joint venture is really the best way to generate leads.

    I know alot of people are reading this thinking it would be easier to just cold call businesses for a fast results, but taking the time to set up just one referral partnership can generate just as many leads as cold calling without the need to take you away from what you should be really doing ( running your business)

    My question to you is, how long does it take for you to typically set up a JV?
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Jonwebb View Post

      My question to you is, how long does it take for you to typically set up a JV?
      Good question...

      My glib answer is less than it would take to cold call to get one single client...

      In the case of our Printer and Secretarial Services, I would say it was less than an hour each. It was part of us selling our SEO services. They both didn't have much of a budget so once we'd convinced them their budget was too low, a barter arrangement was suggested and they were happy to go for it. I worked out that we got 25 clients from the Printer and 104 clients from the Secretarial Services, excluding those we turned away...

      I'd say, if someone calls you as a result of a letter or email like Ewan's, you could do the deal in say less than 30 mins. Details might take a little longer. Really depends on how well you can sell the concept.

      When we go after a product owner to promote to our tame lists, it's probably more like 4 man hours, because we make a non sales approach to get them talking before we make our JV offer. So when we do make an approach, we're not strangers anymore

      I'd also add that our first attempts, with web developers, were a total flop. We couldn't get any genuine interest... So expect that some people just won't get it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Good question...

        My glib answer is less than it would take to cold call to get one single client...

        In the case of our Printer and Secretarial Services, I would say it was less than an hour each. It was part of us selling our SEO services. They both didn't have much of a budget so once we'd convinced them their budget was too low, a barter arrangement was suggested and they were happy to go for it. I worked out that we got 25 clients from the Printer and 104 clients from the Secretarial Services, excluding those we turned away...

        I'd say, if someone calls you as a result of a letter or email like Ewan's, you could do the deal in say less than 30 mins. Details might take a little longer. Really depends on how well you can sell the concept.

        When we go after a product owner to promote to our tame lists, it's probably more like 4 man hours, because we make a non sales approach to get them talking before we make our JV offer. So when we do make an approach, we're not strangers anymore

        I'd also add that our first attempts, with web developers, were a total flop. We couldn't get any genuine interest... So expect that some people just won't get it.


        Thanks for the answer.

        When I approach businesses, I usually approach them with the case purpose of doing an interview, then include my refferal kit when the client sends out the interview to their clients - What method do you prefer to use for setting up joint ventures?

        I must say I do like the idea of trading your services however have you ever had a problem where the JV didn't uphold their end of the bargain?
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          The more complex, more dollars involved,
          no prior relationship, it becomes a bit harder to expect another
          business to refer clients to you.

          I the builder seeking out architects to refer clients to him letter
          I showed, it was built on proof he had already sent referrals
          to an architect.

          If you have no proof of giving first in these more complex services,
          then it becomes more difficult to pull off.

          It can be done by offering a training event.

          For lower priced consumer markets, it can be much easier.

          For example a high end dress store, owned by a marketing guy,
          bought silk scarves from Korea when he was there.

          He approached European sports car dealers
          with the offer to give all their women clients a free silk scarf
          as a thank you gift for being a client of the dealership.

          He had the letter already to go.

          So the dealer principals had a very easy decision to make.

          So the ladies went to the dress store with a friend, tried on numerous dresses
          between them and both would buy.

          He found having bigger mirrors helped sell more too.

          He knew 3 key things...

          1 Some other business has his ideal clients

          2 He was in the business of buying customers

          3 Worked out what he could give first to buy a customer.

          He knew this in his twenties.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by Jonwebb View Post

          When I approach businesses, I usually approach them with the case purpose of doing an interview, then include my refferal kit when the client sends out the interview to their clients - What method do you prefer to use for setting up joint ventures?
          Not sure I understood the question. Your interview idea is one example of getting a client talking. We do interviews for another business - a magazine - however, we also use the answers to see if there are other services we could offer... like JVs!
          With product owners, questions about their product are always answered, however, you need to ensure these are questions that you can't find an answer to with a search of their website or suchlike, otherwise it might have a negative effect.
          Once you're in a conversation, you can say "BTW, I have this idea or concept that will help you with..."
          Originally Posted by Jonwebb View Post

          I must say I do like the idea of trading your services however have you ever had a problem where the JV didn't uphold their end of the bargain?
          I've not had any issues. I am selective and my first line of defence is gut instinct... Also, the promise of more to come tends to keep people honest. Our campaigns are based on proven sequences, so if there's an anomaly it will tend to show up quickly.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Not sure I understood the question. Your interview idea is one example of getting a client talking. We do interviews for another business - a magazine - however, we also use the answers to see if there are other services we could offer... like JVs!
            My question was which method does your company prefer to generate potential partners? We use interviews, do you prefer to barter your service for referrals? or something else

            Sorry for being unclear
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            • Profile picture of the author animal44
              Originally Posted by Jonwebb View Post

              My question was which method does your company prefer to generate potential partners? We use interviews, do you prefer to barter your service for referrals? or something else
              I don't have a favourite method. I think more in terms of opportunity rather than restricting myself to one particular method. I'll tend to try and find a solution for the client even if sometimes I can't yet see the opportunity for me. With the printer we went on to do some more things in return for printing credits. I didn't have a use in mind, but I was sure I could use them somehow and indeed I did find several uses...
              Originally Posted by Jonwebb View Post

              Sorry for being unclear
              More to do with my lack of coffee...!
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              • Profile picture of the author hardyfella
                great post animal...

                so the offers you made to their list, were they always for a service or product (website etc) or did you offer them list a consultation or meeting on their current marketing,online and offline? thanks
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                • Profile picture of the author animal44
                  Originally Posted by hardyfella View Post

                  g
                  so the offers you made to their list, were they always for a service or product (website etc) or did you offer them list a consultation or meeting on their current marketing,online and offline? thanks
                  The offer was for an audit and an added value package (as opposed to a discount).
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  • Profile picture of the author daniyal100
    Yeah technically speaking cold calling still works but your concern is right it dont work as good as people claim it work for them or you never see people claiming 100k monthly income owning a web design agency investing their all day on online forums to sell there 9$ ebooks by which you can start making good money real quick.
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    • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
      Originally Posted by daniyal100 View Post

      Yeah technically speaking cold calling still works but your concern is right it dont work as good as people claim it work for them or you never see people claiming 100k monthly income owning a web design agency investing their all day on online forums to sell there 9$ ebooks by which you can start making good money real quick.
      LOL...that is so true. I especially wonder at some of the "offline" gurus....how do they have time to do whichever "new" "amazing" system they are pushing this week?

      I don't think any ONE system is right for any one product/offer/service...but I do find that some people get on a bandwagon to put a certain system down. Often this because they want others to follow the system in their sig line or the one they are "planning" to come out with etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
        Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

        LOL...that is so true. I especially wonder at some of the "offline" gurus....how do they have time to do whichever "new" "amazing" system they are pushing this week?

        I don't think any ONE system is right for any one product/offer/service...but I do find that some people get on a bandwagon to put a certain system down. Often this because they want others to follow the system in their sig line or the one they are "planning" to come out with etc.
        Thats the thing it all works...until it doesnt.

        If they didn't most marketers wouldnt be in business.

        For me its the over saturation of one method vs the others.

        Find what works for your business then pimp it hard.
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