Bet I Can Prove Most Marketing Is Still Not Seeing The Trees For The Forrest

18 replies
I keep hearing how it is harder to generate business from online sources for offline businesses, how competition is getting so fierce etc... PPC more expensive, SEO getting so hard.

This makes me laugh.
Listen, the point of marketing is to be a step ahead and make money.
You only have to be slightly better than your competition and frankly that is not really very difficult. Hell even is there is one superstar in your competitor line up, there should be enough room for two.

All the channels and technology cause so much confusion that at its core, most businesses are completely missing out on huge opportunities that simply require some common sense.

Here is a simple example of the laughable state of marketing in general.

In order for a business to make sales two things have to happen. The business has to communicate with the customer in the way of being found, offers etc...

The other part is the consumer has to communicate back and make a choice/purchase.

Marketing is so focused on bombarding the customer it is pretty much criminal in its negligence of letting the consumer actually buy.

Here is a prime example.
Marketers/businesses have decided a great new way to yet again bombard the prospect is via text message. In all we send them flyers, emails, texts, blast their Facebook with ads and so on.

So if we are so advanced in marketing and this is so saturated and so hard to get ahead of the competition then why am I not able to right now send a text to the pizzeria up the road for a large all dressed? Why the hell can I not text my dentists reception to see about a time for a teeth cleaning? There are rare instances this is happening but lets face it, it is rare!

Stop and think about that. No seriously, really stop and think about that...

You hate cold calling? Well hell the average human hates calling ANYBODY so much that family members or couples text each other about 100 times more often than they call each other YET when you drive around town do you see signs that say text us your order? or text to book your appointment? text to find out the next available tanning slot?

This is just one example of not seeing the trees for the forrest.
A gazillion solutions and permutations of contact forms and trying to make sure the business is found while ignoring that today people live on text messages that THEY initiate. They HATE receiving them from service providers but boy oh boy would they love the convenience of sneaking in a text to book that massage while sitting in a boring meeting.

The truth is technology and sources and mediums have changed but utter lack of common sense still abounds and always will so it will NEVER be a really big deal to come out ahead for yourself or your customers if you just ignore the noise and look at reality. This is just one simple example that someone even as simple as I can think of and I am sure many on here could add many more examples of how business advertising in general is missing the point and being at the top is really not all that difficult.
#bet #forrest #marketing #prove #trees
  • Profile picture of the author mojo1
    Peter,

    Dave Iago may have figured out the solution to the business texting challenge you've presented.

    He seems to conduct business seamlessly via text in a manner that you speak of.
    Here's a case study highlighting how he's doing it.

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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Every year, hopeful "wanna be gurus" buy millions of dollars' worth of "how to make a million tomorrow" or "how to start a business" products. The market isn't limited to doing business online, but the idea of working at a computer making "six-figure incomes in our pajamas" is especially irresistible.

    95% (if not more) of the customers for these products will spend thousands of dollars, then turn around looking for the next magic pill before their credit card gets a chance to cool off.

    Keep it simple and TAKE ACTION!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      Every year, hopeful "wanna be gurus" buy millions of dollars' worth of "how to make a million tomorrow" or "how to start a business" products. The market isn't limited to doing business online, but the idea of working at a computer making "six-figure incomes in our pajamas" is especially irresistible.

      95% (if not more) of the customers for these products will spend thousands of dollars, then turn around looking for the next magic pill before their credit card gets a chance to cool off.

      Keep it simple and TAKE ACTION!
      Can you explain how this very general post is relevant to the thread?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      I think the biggest problem here isn't the idea ( which I love btw ) it is how its applied and where.. not to mention the technical behind it. And with the technical needs comes expense.

      Dominos Pizza is a living example of this stuff. you can send a send a text, tweet, use the app amongst other avenues and get a pizza. The concept is mind blowing, not from the front side but think of the technical in this. First you have to go online. you have to set up an account you have to have a pizza preference in place. ( you text "send me a pizza" and they are going to deliver the pizza you have in your profile ) payment options have to be set etc etc. You then have to have a system in place that centralizes all of these avenues of communication and kicks out the order to the local store that will be making the delivery... Its straight out mind numbing... cool but mind numbing.

      So lets dumb down the concept a bit... A doctors office ( I have tried this BTW ) the ability to text the doctors office as compared to calling them. it was a pretty immediate success. BUT there was a problem. We had a phone that sat with the receptionist, and they sat there and answered text messages as they came in.

      the #1 issue was customer care once at the office. you as a patient goto the front desk, and the young lady is behind the counter texting, and ignoring you.. what would you ( the patient waiting to sign in ) think? "How Rude!" right... but they are texting with a patient.

      So then you think ok, we need to hire someone that can take care of a task away from the front desk AND deal with the texting.. so you are increasing payroll. But here is where things got interesting.. when you analyze the gain vs expense of this little experiment, it only cost money and didn't save a dime. Yes, it decreased phone calls, but in no way did it increase business.

      So maybe a doctors office wasn't such a good idea.. live and learn right? but then what scenario is? I haven't found one... But then you go back and look at Domino's... what's missing? the technical system and formulated pattern to make this work.

      The largest hurdle in all of this is knowing who you are talking to.. a text comes in it displays a number.. you have to have the ability to translate the number to a name right? In the above case of the doctor, I had to extract a name and a phone number for each and every patient, and place it into the contacts on the phone. ( the process was pretty simple ) BUT I could not cross the gap from a text to the #1 reason for a person to be texting the doctor, and that was to make an appointment. Again Technical got in the way of easy.

      Anyone that has ever worked with doctors and their patient systems and scheduling know there are 3 hundred gazillion back end systems. cross communication of any system is doable ( for the most part ) but the expense of doing it one off, time and again, is a hurdle if not a wall in a business development plan. LOL

      So as a Marketer... Texting is clearly a path to be looked at, but the question is how to implement, and scale, that where the hickups come into play.

      I cant find the thread right now but Ewen shared a mailer piece not to long ago that had 3 forms of contact ( well 4 actually ). What was truly interesting with 3 tech options of contact for the Gym, it was the 4th point of contact ( the gyms front door ) that out performed the 3 tech options.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


        I cant find the thread right now but Ewen shared a mailer piece not to long ago that had 3 forms of contact ( well 4 actually ). What was truly interesting with 3 tech options of contact for the Gym, it was the 4th point of contact ( the gyms front door ) that out performed the 3 tech options.
        Here it be...

        http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...rect-mail.html

        Not sure what you mean by "4th point of contact ( the gyms front door ) that out performed the 3 tech options."

        The worst by a long shot was qr code.

        There was no option of walking in off the street because the street address was not given
        until they opted in.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Not sure what you mean by "4th point of contact ( the gyms front door ) that out performed the 3 tech options."

          Thanks for posting that... if you look at the right sidebar notes in the second image... The top note says there was 250 leads collected. The bottom one says 196 personally came in. - The way I read the case study was that 250 leads were collected, and 196 came in. They don't say "of the 250 196 came in" I read the 196 as a separate conversion point all together. They got the mailer and then they bypassed the other points of contact and walked in the Gym.


          *** I was going to add a link to the case study I found on the NZ Harold website, but it is no longer there ***
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Thanks for posting that... if you look at the right sidebar notes in the second image... The top note says there was 250 leads collected. The bottom one says 196 personally came in. - The way I read the case study was that 250 leads were collected, and 196 came in. They don't say "of the 250 196 came in" I read the 196 as a separate conversion point all together. They got the mailer and then they bypassed the other points of contact and walked in the Gym.
            Gotcha.

            That 196 was the final number after the women went through the
            process of phoning, texting or scanning.

            If you look at both sides of postcard, there's no street address of the gym.

            Which was great because it created an air of exclusivity
            and backed up the message of trying it to give feedback
            before it opens to the public.

            Best,
            Doctor E. Vile
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              If you look at both sides of postcard, there's no street address of the gym.

              Do you have the front image to share? if you look at the 2 images provided in the post... the 2nd is a close up from the same side as image #2.

              I believe as I read in the NZ Harold Article they did want to create that amount of mystery, but were surprised by the # of walk-ins keep in mind the targeting of this piece was real tight. Within 5 miles of the Gym... so many knew where the gym was apparently? - *** im still trying to find a copy of the case study to clarify ***
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              • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                Do you have the front image to share? if you look at the 2 images provided in the post... the 2nd is a close up from the same side as image #2.

                I believe as I read in the NZ Harold Article they did want to create that amount of mystery, but were surprised by the # of walk-ins keep in mind the targeting of this piece was real tight. Within 5 miles of the Gym... so many knew where the gym was apparently? - *** im still trying to find a copy of the case study to clarify ***
                That was a quick screen shot on a webinar Frank Kern did for Infusionsoft.

                You're probably right, they do look like the same sides...
                however I've seen repeat of front message on back
                work because no matter what side is read, the marketer
                has control of the message sequence...another words
                you DON'T want the reader seeing the offer before the headline is read.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  I stand corrected.... you can see the replay by going to: http://go.infusionsoft.com/frank-kern-webinar/ the specific piece we are discussing here is at the 30 minute mark in the video.

                  I was under the impression this was a postcard piece based on the write up I had read previously ( or maybe here was a second mailing made with the postcard alone? ) that is NOT the case, the card was a piece in addition to a type letter type of deal.

                  Basically option 1 and 2 brought in 250 prospects, and they got 196 of these prospect in the door with their offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Lessard
    Appreciate everyone's great contributions to this thread.
    I don't really want to get lost in systems of texting and implementation it was really just one example.

    Really what I am trying to say is that in pretty much every instance something really obvious is not being done or could be done much better if you stopped getting lost in complexity and just stood back and looked at the big picture.

    Sure having seamless texting in a national chain is not easy and may not be the best example but in general for many businesses when it comes to texting, it is a rather obvious and easy way to receive a lead. You can always just call them back after all.

    I wrote this thread because it is a rare instance that I have taken on a clients marketing and not found at least one element that made the owners do a face palm when the issue and solution was pointed out and implemented and this is often after so many "professionals" have been working constantly on their marketing and after years of the business owners being stumped and to be my worst critic I am NOT that smart BUT I am a very good picture person. Results from what was brutally obvious to me have often had dramatic results and generally have not been complicated or expensive to implement. I have for example often been called by a new business to handle their marketing. When I learned the location I knew they were screwed. If 5 other similar businesses have gone under in that same location over the past 10 years they should take a hint for gods sake.

    Other examples:

    1. A business killing themselves trying to bring in more prospects when the brutal truth was the buying decision absolutely almost always involved both husband and wife so closing Mondays and opening Sundays or opening later in the morning but staying open later in the evening so that it was actually possible for the couple to attend together had impact that was huge, cost little to nothing and solved problems that they had otherwise spent a fortune trying to solve. It was also made clear in all marketing the place was totally kid friendly so feel free to let them run around.

    2. A national PI firm that was killing itself to rank locally, spending a ton on SEO, getting killed by the google places listings etc... and the fact their business model was one central bricks and mortar location. I went in to talk SEO but I quickly got them what they wanted by simply contacting bail bond companies in some 200+ cities and made arrangements to use their local bricks and mortar location as a representative office of the nationally centralized firm. They said yes quickly as we could send them work and included them in our marketing efforts and though someone wanting PI services could walk in to the office it NEVER happened because in that niche prospects are happy to conduct over the phone, especially given their real target market was law firms/corporations etc.. As a bonus we got them ranked in natural serps as well, often owning half the page in most major cities using vids/directories that included the bricks and mortar addresses of their new partners but that was funded by almost immediate results of harnessing the local presence and google maps listings of the bail bond companies.

    If you back up and look at the big picture the solution almost NEVER includes building some complex technological thingy.

    The problem with us marketers is we LOVE technology and the complex. A simple solution doesn't excite us. Some consultants even wrongly feel they should not be able to bill huge sums if they point out the obvious that everyone else is missing but that is so wrong! If I can fix someones marketing by pointing out the numbers on the side of their building are too small for them to be found I have no issue billing for the results changing those numbers will bring.

    An off the cuff example, there is some show on TV about mining for gold, forget what its called. A crew with millions in equipment, brutal hours, tons of manpower, all about to go down the drain with a dismal season as returns are not matching investment and some old guy stands on a hill looks over the property and says see that dip over there, that's where you should be digging, not where yer at now. Suddenly problem solved. How much was him pointing to that spot worth? Of course most consultants would of done complex studies of equipment, tried to invent some new process etc.. ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Another example of the cost trying to fix the complicated
      costing lot's of money when the solution was a few cents to fix.

      Exact details are not clear, however this was about having men in space where there's no gravity to hold down ink in pens.

      The expensive and time consuming answer was a new type of ink for pens.

      The few cents solution wasn't a ink pen,
      but a PENCIL!

      Best,
      Doctor OBVIOUS E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Peter,

        I absolutely agree that technical often times gets in way. I was brought in to help with bring onboard new clients with the use of Mobile, and specifically texting.. sounded like a real good idea. Just like yourself you were brought in to look at the SEO efforts.. seemed like it would be easy from the beginning.

        There comes the time that you have to adapt to the situation, and go back and look at the end goal or the ultimate needs of the client. In both cases ( yours and mine ) it ment scaling a business. you went left field and hit a home run. THAT is what we do.

        If you read my previous post you will find this line: "we need to hire someone that can take care of a task away from the front desk AND deal with the texting" After some poking around the numbers and developing some matrix with data, I found an opportunity To optimize what was already there.

        The task away from the front desk ultimately was calling existing patients and wishing them a Happy Birthday. Along with the call was the request to fill out a questionnaire about the doctor / practice and to assist in filling in some gaps with family history etc along with the opportunity to list any medical concerns they may have.We then scheduled a yearly check-up and doctor consult to go over the questionnaire.

        The primary objective was to fill appointment slots.. we did that... at the same time we uplifted the opinion of many patients towards the doctors and created the space for the doctor to actually "Listen" to each patients concerns. The doctor then had a better idea of what the patients history was, and what their immediate medical concerns were and allowed them to develop a path to recovery. Healed patients are happy patients and what do happy patients do? they refer.

        In the long run they added the new member to the office staff.. they filled all the spots and more that they were looking to fill, and 4 months later now, they have added 2 more doctors to the practice due to the influx of new patients that were coming in as personal referrals from current patients.

        Took a step back, saw the goal for what it was, and devised a plan of attack that was low tech in every sense of the word. Being kind ( Happy Birthday ) and getting a doctor to actually listen and care. - As the lead Doctor said to me - "A Novel idea"

        ************************************************** **********

        Ewen,

        We are talking about the American Space program... you think the expense of developing space ink is bad? I could only imagine what the expense of a space safe pencil sharpener would have been! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I've always viewed marketing as every step a business takes to gain new, repeat
    and referral business.

    A cornerstone of that is to always look for ways to make it easier for the customer
    to deal with the business, and like the experience that the business offers.

    Just a simple example at my hotel is to make it easier for the guest to get the room
    they want. We used to have different prices for the Suite, the King bed rooms, the rooms
    with two or three beds, and the "Colorado Rooms" (a little prettier and more recently
    updated).

    So, that was four different prices to explain. We literally had people try to squeeze 4
    into a room with a King bed to save the $5 or $10 (seasonal pricing). Or, they would
    take the King when they really wanted two beds so they would not have to share a
    bed with their sister or brother.

    Now it's one price for all the rooms -based on up to two adults, and a higher price
    for the Suite because it is essentially a one bedroom apartment that sleeps six and
    has a full kitchen. Easy to explain and people are pleasantly surprised that they can
    get the room they want for the same price. (Oddly, just as many people expect to
    pay more for a room with a King bed as expect to pay more for a two or three bed
    configuration. Regional and Country differences I suppose.)

    With respect to the texting thing, I could overbook if people could do a reservation by text.
    And, I'd have the same problem of texting in front of the customers standing there.

    My insurance agent actually had to set his phone up so people cannot leave messages
    when they are closed. He had too many clients think their phone message constitute the
    needed change to their insurance policy. "I left a message about the car I purchased Saturday.
    What do you mean Sunday's accident is not covered?"

    As I think about this, I am reminded of Naisbit's book called Megatrends and his concept of
    high tech/high touch.

    PS I always wanted a space pen. LOL. http://fisherspacepen.com/
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Peter, Savidge and Ewen: One of the best threads I've read here in a long time. Simply Excellent.

      Dan: Thanks for the link to Fisher Pens. I clicked through and found this

      "After 18 months of successful testing, NASA selected Fisher's "Anti Gravity" pen for space flight. Paul Fisher, a romantic at heart and a huge fan of the space program, wanted to donate the pens to NASA. However, that was not allowed, so NASA issued a purchase order and paid the dealer price for its first batch of pens which included a specially developed all metal mechanism."

      18 months of testing...for a pen??

      How did those "pipe smoking cretins" EVER send a man to the moon and return him safely to earth?

      I'll bet the "testing" cost more than the damned pens.

      Ron
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Many marketers understand what to do--but not why they should do it.

        And this seems like a small thing, but in reality, it's crucial.

        If you don't understand why you should use a particular tactic,
        you won't know when to use it, under what conditions you find yourself in.

        For example, if you are in the carpet cleaning business and everyone else is saying variations of clean carpets...like faster drying, fastest drying, no harmful chemicals, eco friendly, safe on pets and toddlers, sucks more dirt out, removes stains.

        Yes they are different than each other up until you hit carpet cleaning.

        That's the moment of truth the lady reading it at her mailbox decides.

        First reaction..? no thanks, my carpets are clean.

        So no matter how many ways you spin clean carpets, she isn't buying.

        So going back to knowing why you use a tactic, in this carpet cleaning example,
        you would of observed everyone is using a version of clean carpets in their ads.

        Then that tactic would be impotent because it's been done to death.

        Knowing what market conditions you face, then coming up with the tactic to meet them,
        is the thinking and planning required so the results don't become bad.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author sconer
    So... should I go and change all my advertisements and websites from "Call now for your free in-home estimate!" to "Call or Text now for your free in-home estimate!"???
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by sconer View Post

      So... should I go and change all my advertisements and websites from "Call now for your free in-home estimate!" to "Call or Text now for your free in-home estimate!"???
      Because you can make the scheduling decision right then and there, and because the change will cost you absolutely nothing... The question is just out of the sake of testing.. why haven't you made the change already?
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