not applicable.

"No refunds are offered once work has begun."

Edited 2/9/16: This one-liner is meant to be added to your T&C. You'd protect yourself immensely.

not applicable.

Yeah, that's work. In the end, though, it's up to you whether you refund her.

I personally wouldn't. Once it's in my account, it's mine.

Whether that means delivering what was promised, or enforcing no refunds, either way, I'm not in the business of giving money back.

It sounds like you weren't clear with her since you aren't clear yourself as to what to do. In that case, I'd give her the money back and take this as a lesson on why I need clarity in my agreements with customers. If nothing else, since you both seemed unclear, giving her money back in good faith might keep a relationship open or she might at least tell others about you. If you keep it and make her mad, you might create someone that turns others away from you, which could possibly cost you way more than $60. I would give it back if it I didn't have control of the situation and take that on as my responsibility. My mistake, here's your money back, and from now on I will include verbiage in an agreement so that all parties know what is expected from the start.

I wouldn't risk a battle over 60$. I would explain that you're only doing this one time and refund it. This person could easily cause more then 60$ in damage with a few posts around the internet. Most people would consider you making 60$ doing nothing to be a scam, so unless you've got something to show for it, I would get out of it.

This should be a learning experience for you.
To avoid this kind of things to happen again, make sure that you'll have a clear agreement with your client . That once half of payment has been made and some work has already been done like research etc., then there will be no refund. BTW, I wonder what's part of the agreement? Did you already ask her about the agreement? If the refund thing is not on the agreement then you should give the money back to her, and review your t&c for future reference. If not then make it clear to her.

Was the deposit agreed upon by her to be "non refundable" ?

If you didn't discuss that factor, then I would AT LEAST offer her half back...and see how that goes.

I mean to be fair, you didn't start after 7 days. Had you however started or completed the work, It would be a different story.

Use it as a lesson to be more clear on the terms, and maybe start having your clients sign an e-contract with the terms and conditions.

I would also try to find out WHY she doesn't want it anymore and maybe try and talk her back into wanting it.

not applicable.

I have to ask...you're not a newbie...what the heck are you doing anything for $100 for??

To put this into perspective, I have a trusted fellow townie here in ILM I rely on for all high end logo work. His rate to me is half what he charges everyone else--and that's for projects that are for ME specifically, not client projects I bring him the logo & header work for. No way is he under $120 for the outside world.

And he gets the work done well--his first idea has always been his best--in less than two days.

So you had a bunch of things going on there.

One, the client didn't value your unique point of view. If she did, she'd wait however long and pay whatever you wanted. When I ran a 2-hour sales training call, people might have to wait weeks to talk with me because it was so heavily booked--and they were happy to do it. Nobody ever complained, and when we finally did get to speak people were literally breathless to finally get to meet me. That's what you want. See, it's very possible that if she'd had to wait a week just for you to get started, that might have gotten you out of the jam you're in now.

Two, a saying I put together after about 3 years of experience here: "If it hurts to get in, it'll hurt to get out." This has everything to do with the client's perception of value and the level of investment. $100 (or $60) is not much so it didn't hurt her to get in. That means it doesn't hurt her to get out--she had minimal investment...emotional and financial. Make it hurt, but in the good way. Also, at this low price you should have collected 100% up front. It's nothing, a throwaway. Seriously.

Three, your terms were not clear enough. Always get the client to repeat at the time of order what they believe the terms are, so that you can correct them if needed. Given the misunderstandings arising from two people discussing what they think are the same technical term (look up 'POS' sometime...apparently there are people walking around who think it means "Parent Over Shoulder"--WTH does that even mean??--and to me it means Point of Sale...or Piece of S***) but are really not, these misunderstandings can crop up all the time. "So you understand this is going to take me up to two weeks, right?" "Right." "OK. And what happens if a week from now you decide you need to hurry it up?"

If you're going to fight, fight before money has changed hands.


At this point, I would call her and ask what happened (from her point of view). Then see if any dialogue can happen from there. You might be able to recover the order.

She asks me to do a logo -- I tell her it'll be $100.
I tell her I need $50 down and the balance upon completion.
I tell her it'll take a week - 10 days.

Those were the terms and then she gave you $60, which made it a binding contract.

She's the one looking to breach the contract.

Hope you had this in writing, by the way...

But here's what happens... you have the right to now sue her for the balance, because you were hired. But now she's taking your job away from you, yet you have a right to that profit you would've made. You spent time on this assignment. That time could've been billed out to someone else.

So... keep the 60 to "liquidate damages," basically meaning, to make a settlement and consider that amount as fair restitution for the work you've done, time you've spent, setting up her account, etc., and wish her good luck.

You don't need to build relationships with people who don't honor the terms they agreed to and who don't want to pay you.

In a legal proceeding, the best you would get is the amount you would've profited, not a penny more than that, if the court found in your favor.

You do need to clarify that it is a non-refundable deposit. People use their
own definitions for things.

At my hotel, if a desk clerk tells a customer there is a $10 pet deposit, many
customers expect to get a refund of that deposit. So, now we are careful to
say pet fee.

Similarly, we no longer advertise our breakfast, even though it meets the
dictionary definition of Continental Breakfast - coffee, pastry, juice.
A lot of people have come to think that Continental Breakfast means
coffee, pastry, juice, bagels, cereal, fruit, and waffles... Now, a lot are pleasantly
surprised that we have anything.

Better to adapt to what people think, in some circumstances, and not have battles
that you do not need to have. Head it off at the pass.

This one time I'd refund the $60, use the clearer "non-refundable deposit" language,
and move on to get more and better clients.

Anything after closing the sale constitutes work, where I'm from.

OP said he went through the research process with her, figuring out what she wanted, and then began brainstorming the work. He deserves to be paid for the effort.

It's not his fault she spent money she either didn't have, or regretted spending after she made the sale. Who's to say she didn't cancel and head over to Fiverr.com?

I think the fact that you have thanked only those that are telling you what you want to hear says a lot, but I'm not here to judge.

Personally as other people have said I would just give them their money back and learn a lesson from it. It's a pain in the arse but I'd rather have somebody going away contented than somebody who could potentially become a living nightmare.

Probably because I gave a very good understanding of the situation. It's not a matter of that maybe, maybe, the client needs sixty bucks back. That's not the issue. The issue is the OP was contracted and now that contract's been breached, so automatically he has the right to be compensated for loss of profit. As far as the person breaching the contract goes, she's a grown adult. If she breaches the contract, then she incurs the legal liability to be responsible for her actions. It's not the OP's burden to make sure the client gets money back. It's the OP that's out because the client decided to not live up to the contract and breached. So it's the client's responsibility to make the OP whole again.

He should train the marketplace to understand that you can break contracts with him and he'll give you your money back? Yeah, right.

7 days into his promise of 7 to 10 days delivery and all he's completed is about an hour of thinking.
Hmmm.

If you didn't do anything after 7 days, I'd re-evaluate my own position in telling you to keep it.

If, however, she asked for a refund on day 2, or 3, I don't think I'd give it to her.

That said, I can take care of my own reputation management, should something like that happen. I don't know if you're in that position.

What others have said about her getting pissed and making you her new project makes complete sense. Do you have enough good reviews on the internet, to offset the 1 bad one you'll probably receive?

Regardless, you definitely need to clear up your terms before you start work, to avoid this situation in the future.

It really comes down to human vs business. Being a human, you'd want to give it back.

You're in business, though. People get sued for breaking contracts in business and she contracted you for something, then broke it. I don't think that's your problem.

Verizon won't give you the money back if you change your mind after signing the papers and getting billed. You're going to ride out the service for the time you've paid, or have your name drug through collection agencies.

It should be stated somewhere that you do not give refunds, but gurantee the work will be done to their satisfaction.

Again, if the up front money can/should be refunded at any time, fro any reason, then what's the point in taking that $, up front, in the first place?

So, if I want a website made, and it will cost $1,000, I should have the designer just go ahead with the process, without any kind of up front $$? -- Or should I get the process started with up front money, but then expect to be able to get that $ back whenever I want, for any reason I want? Let's ask some web designers what their process is.

1) Get no up front $$ -- and just proceed trusting that when complete, they will get paid.

2) Get some up front $, but assume that the customer can just get that $ back whenever they want to, for whatever reason they want.

3) Get the up front $ for the very PURPOSE of committing the customer to the job -- and PAYING for the job in some way (AT LEAST half), no matter the outcome.

If #2, then the customer isn't really committing to anything, and it is more or less the exact same scenario as #1, money-wise.

This is a total non issue, some of the responses here are hella convoluted.

Did you try communicating with your client?

Explain a) the work has been started and b) the reason you take the deposit is to ensure you get paid for your work.

The client will likely understand if they want to cancel the money is forfeit but if she demands a refund and you feel timid by all means give it to her.

I wouldn't though, trying to get out of a deal after the work has begun is BS. I would hold the deposit.

I'm with the give it back crowd... It's just not worth having someone bad mouth you for $60...

If you already knew the answer, why did you ask? Just to see if you could get someone to agree? Removing your posts is weak.

The thread might be removed, but the damage is done, Tim.

You have just shown yourself to be someone who
folks here might not want to do business with.

"Petty" doesn't sell well.

What's the cost in terms of future business?

I hope it was worth the $60, Tim

Why would you delete your post and change the title so future people can't visit the thread and learn from the topic? That's really lame.

There is a lot of different opinions in here, and it was a good topic for people to learn how others conduct business.

How about an update instead of running away from the question you asked because you didn't like the answers....are you returning the money or not?

Edit: The fact that you went back and deleted every post you made in this thread is quite sad. It just makes you look even worse then being someone who does no work 7 days into a 10 day project and comes online seeking reassurances from others to feel good about keeping someones $60.

Since this thread is "over" let's answer the question we are all wondering.

Why in the world are you doing a logo for $100?

Why do you have so little authority, credibility, influence, and power that a business owner wouldn't be embarrassed to ask for a refund of such a small amount?

I understand that sometimes you sell someone and then someone else gets in their ear and tells them they got rip't or whatever. When I get a hunch that someone is going to back out and they call me (this is if I still want them as a client) I let it go to voice mail and then I either call back or show up in person with all the authority and grace in the world. It always works.

Grant it I'm not in retail.

They are coming you to ask for a refund. Since you already established rapport (you did right?) they are not wanting to disappoint you. You act like everything is great with the world, they back down, you then go into grace mode be recognizing that something may be wrong or concerning them. Then you let them know that everything is all ok.