Are there any 9 x 12 guys left here? Postcard marketing?

35 replies
Just got a note from someone who is thinking of getting into the Giant Postcard biz with a guy named Art Gottleib. I remember he used to do the magzines thing with ads. I guess he has switched to 9X12 only now, not sure.

His site, and I have no affiliation with any of the 9x12 guys, is giantpostcardbusiness dot com. I watched his video, read the site, and it just doesn't ring true in my experience.

About 3 years ago, maybe 4 now?, I talked with dozens of guys who were doing the 9x12 thing, it was a hot topic here for a New York minute.

Most of the people I talked to found it to be much harder than the way it was presented, albeit all Biz-Op like to talk about how easy something is to do.

There is nothing easy about calling on businesses and selling them advertising, and although YOUR experience may differ, the vast majority find it to be a grind and then some.

The idea, as presented at this guy's site that you can do a card with 39 ads on them and do 3 or 4 a month, easily, just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't know, maybe he's a super hypnotist, but I've never been able to walk in, hand a sample and without questions, get an order.

I do know some hard working guys who DO sell advertising, on postcards, and via other media, but none of them are coming anywhere near what this guy claims one can do, and in their part time.

Most consistent person I know does one and a half per week, and has for many months. But he has a unique thing going.

I love postcards. I like selling advertising (or did at one point)...and I still keep an eye on Biz-Op, more as a hobby these days...but I have to wonder when I come across something like this. A guy wants $2500.00 to get his "plan" and details on HOW to do it, then gets the printing, has you pay 3700 for the card, anything above that is your profit.

He says there is 4100 dollars of PROFIT per card, and 4 a month is doable part time.

So, honestly, any 9x12 guys left, or is anyone doing anything with selling advertising still? I know we had that discussion last year about the guy doing mobile and remote stuff, but I think that was the last we discussed selling ads.

Since I just got this in my email today, I assume there is a campaign going on and he seems to have dropped his other publishing businesses and is ALL IN on the 9x12.

I have nothing against this guy, don't know him from Adam or Steve, but I did notice his sample cards are made up, in that they have all kinds of phone numbers from across the country on them, a local area card would mostly have the same area codes, right?

I don't think Tony's Pizza in Brookly would be on the same card as a phone company in Manhattan...KANSAS. So the sample cards are not real cards.

IF he had a few cards as sample that actually showed an area where this happened, I'd be more impressed.

So, anyone still doing advertising sales on postcards? Thanks.

GordonJ

PS. On a different note, it appears today that 2500 bucks for a non Franchise Biz-Op is what used to be a 500 dollar one, what have you encountered in Biz Op?
#guys #left #marketing #postcard
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    The cool kids (successful 9x12 guys and gals) hang out here now-a-days...

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/BobRoss9x12/

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    Yep, still putting out postcards and other sorts of ad promotions.

    I don't sell anything here, and I'm not looking for attention, so no reason for me to post much about what I'm doing. I post mostly to provide an idea or a different perspective, based on my own experience. If it helps someone great. If not, that's alright, too. The advice is free, you can take or leave it.

    P.S. I don't hang out at any "wannabe" facebook sites. I'm too busy doing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      Yep, still putting out postcards and other sorts of ad promotions.

      I don't sell anything here, and I'm not looking for attention, so no reason for me to post much about what I'm doing. I post mostly to provide an idea or a different perspective, based on my own experience. If it helps someone great. If not, that's alright, too. The advice is free, you can take or leave it.

      P.S. I don't hang out at any "wannabe" facebook sites. I'm too busy doing it.
      If you do CO-OP cards, what is the maximum number of advertisers you put on a card?

      As per my OP, this guy says he gets 39 biz card size ads on his 9x12.

      Personally, I think six is the sweet spot on an EDDM card.

      I agree with you about flying low, no need to let anyone know your business, I'm all for that.

      But if anyone is cranking out Co-Op cards more than 1 per week, then maybe I can learn some new tricks. Thanks for your experienced answer.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    I'm with Ron on this.. I send out cards... 4 5 6 times a month... invested in all of the equipment needed and produce all of my mailings in house. I don't do the facebook thing either. Its not that I don't have the time LOL.. ok maybe not, For me facebook is a place to spend money ( advertising ) and not spend time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      I don't hang out at any "wannabe" facebook sites.
      I don't do the facebook thing either.
      But you hang out here at the Warrior Forum.

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        But you hang out here at the Warrior Forum.

        Alex
        Ahhh very nice.... I used to do facebook... but there is a clear seperation between facebook and Here in terms of getting leads and forming new contacts for business. This platform is far better.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Ahhh very nice.... I used to do facebook... but there is a clear seperation between facebook and Here in terms of getting leads and forming new contacts for business. This platform is far better.
          Facebook is one of the greatest lead generation platforms ever developed in the history of mankind.

          Alex
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            Facebook is one of the greatest lead generation platforms ever developed in the history of mankind.

            Alex
            Dont get me wrong.. I do use facebook for just that. well let me rephrase that... I provide services for clients that include lead generation using facebook. Me personally. well me professionally... I cant target enough using facebook to meet my targeting needs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        But you hang out here at the Warrior Forum.

        Alex
        Yep. Occasionally, I do. Thanks for noticing.

        Ron
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I'm with Ron on this.. I send out cards... 4 5 6 times a month... invested in all of the equipment needed and produce all of my mailings in house. I don't do the facebook thing either. Its not that I don't have the time LOL.. ok maybe not, For me facebook is a place to spend money ( advertising ) and not spend time.
      You PRINT in-house? If so, may I ask about the equipment used. Did you buy outright, or are you leasing it? And what is it, make, model all that. Apparently it has a lot of capacity and printing cost is always something we'd like to reduce.

      It also appears to be paying for itself.

      Thanks if you care to share.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        You PRINT in-house? If so, may I ask about the equipment used. Did you buy outright, or are you leasing it? And what is it, make, model all that. Apparently it has a lot of capacity and printing cost is always something we'd like to reduce.

        It also appears to be paying for itself.

        Thanks if you care to share.

        GordonJ
        Bought it outright... basically stole the thing really. Its a Heidelberg SM 74-2. A sheet fed press runs basically 20x30 inch sheets. I have been looking at a 4 color press. there are some deals to be had on the Heidelberg QuickMaster DI PRO Offset Press. It is actually a pretty slick machine.

        I grew up in a print shop ( almost literally ) and the Family business had only Heidelburg presses, so I am very familiar with them, in terms of use and even maintenance.

        I have a collection of Heidelburg windmill presses as well for die cutting and numbering and the like.

        When I cant run whatever job it is, I have a local pressman that comes in after hours and moonlights for me.... The cost to run 10K sheets 4 color ( on the 2 color press ) is just short of retarded cheap... 2 days at 5 hours at $15.00 an hour, paper, ink and the cost of the plate Im in for $450 ish.

        Its the rest of the equipment that can get you... The cutter ( I have a Polar 45 ) the plate maker etc it does add up. But there is without question something to be said to have the ability to think it, and print it in the same day.. for me.. THAT is priceless! LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author eccj
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Bought it outright... basically stole the thing really. Its a Heidelberg SM 74-2. A sheet fed press runs basically 20x30 inch sheets. I have been looking at a 4 color press. there are some deals to be had on the Heidelberg QuickMaster DI PRO Offset Press. It is actually a pretty slick machine.

          I grew up in a print shop ( almost literally ) and the Family business had only Heidelburg presses, so I am very familiar with them, in terms of use and even maintenance.

          I have a collection of Heidelburg windmill presses as well for die cutting and numbering and the like.

          When I cant run whatever job it is, I have a local pressman that comes in after hours and moonlights for me.... The cost to run 10K sheets 4 color ( on the 2 color press ) is just short of retarded cheap... 2 days at 5 hours at $15.00 an hour, paper, ink and the cost of the plate Im in for $450 ish.

          Its the rest of the equipment that can get you... The cutter ( I have a Polar 45 ) the plate maker etc it does add up. But there is without question something to be said to have the ability to think it, and print it in the same day.. for me.. THAT is priceless! LOL
          Wow. That's pretty awesome. I hope to get there one day.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by eccj View Post

            Wow. That's pretty awesome. I hope to get there one day.
            Printing presses can be found on e-bay for super cheap... Ive actually found a few of my windmill presses on Craigslist for FREE. You can get into a Ryobi or ABDick press for about $1000.00 May not be multi color.. but you just run the sheet through 4 times.. no big deal LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Are there any 9 x 12 guys left here?
    9 inch guy here! Don't know anyone who's 12" though.
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  • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Just got a note from someone who is thinking of getting into the Giant Postcard biz with a guy named Art Gottleib. I remember he used to do the magzines thing with ads. I guess he has switched to 9X12 only now, not sure.

    His site, and I have no affiliation with any of the 9x12 guys, is giantpostcardbusiness dot com. I watched his video, read the site, and it just doesn't ring true in my experience.

    About 3 years ago, maybe 4 now?, I talked with dozens of guys who were doing the 9x12 thing, it was a hot topic here for a New York minute.

    Most of the people I talked to found it to be much harder than the way it was presented, albeit all Biz-Op like to talk about how easy something is to do.

    There is nothing easy about calling on businesses and selling them advertising, and although YOUR experience may differ, the vast majority find it to be a grind and then some.

    The idea, as presented at this guy's site that you can do a card with 39 ads on them and do 3 or 4 a month, easily, just doesn't make sense to me.

    I don't know, maybe he's a super hypnotist, but I've never been able to walk in, hand a sample and without questions, get an order.

    I do know some hard working guys who DO sell advertising, on postcards, and via other media, but none of them are coming anywhere near what this guy claims one can do, and in their part time.

    Most consistent person I know does one and a half per week, and has for many months. But he has a unique thing going.

    I love postcards. I like selling advertising (or did at one point)...and I still keep an eye on Biz-Op, more as a hobby these days...but I have to wonder when I come across something like this. A guy wants $2500.00 to get his "plan" and details on HOW to do it, then gets the printing, has you pay 3700 for the card, anything above that is your profit.

    He says there is 4100 dollars of PROFIT per card, and 4 a month is doable part time.

    So, honestly, any 9x12 guys left, or is anyone doing anything with selling advertising still? I know we had that discussion last year about the guy doing mobile and remote stuff, but I think that was the last we discussed selling ads.

    Since I just got this in my email today, I assume there is a campaign going on and he seems to have dropped his other publishing businesses and is ALL IN on the 9x12.

    I have nothing against this guy, don't know him from Adam or Steve, but I did notice his sample cards are made up, in that they have all kinds of phone numbers from across the country on them, a local area card would mostly have the same area codes, right?

    I don't think Tony's Pizza in Brookly would be on the same card as a phone company in Manhattan...KANSAS. So the sample cards are not real cards.

    IF he had a few cards as sample that actually showed an area where this happened, I'd be more impressed.

    So, anyone still doing advertising sales on postcards? Thanks.

    GordonJ

    PS. On a different note, it appears today that 2500 bucks for a non Franchise Biz-Op is what used to be a 500 dollar one, what have you encountered in Biz Op?
    Hello,

    Yes we use smart cards, it has built in tracking system, that when the customer gets card, they can check their home value instant, just enter code on website as it says on post card, capture their email also, so we use smart card all the time in Real Estate marketing.

    Hope this helps

    Thanks Rob.
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  • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
    That Guy's Site (Giant Postcard Business Dot Com) Is Hard To Read. Its Just A Hair Shy of Shouting. And He Goes On For Pages And Pages And Pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    Still just doing 4 x 6 here. Postcards rock!
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  • Profile picture of the author toneal614
    I saw all of the Arthur Gottlieb videos as well. I personally couldn't see myself paying him almost 3k for information I could accumulate on my own, so that's exactly what I done. First off, 40 business card sized ads don't mathematically fit on a 9x12 postcard. I went with 16 on each side. excluding one spot for postage and one spot for my own advertisement. leaving me with 30 sellable ads. I hired my own designer to do 4 layouts, sent them to a printer and had 500 mockups sent to me. the whole process was very affordable. I also had a sales info sheet and a custom invoice form designed and printed as well. putting these 3 things together accompanied with a business card, I created a media kit. this gives a more professional look as opposed to just walking into a business with only a postcard, as Arthur Gottleib suggests. Its a great business to run. there's no need to pay some guy 3k. you can do it yourself for a portion of the price. Let me know if I can help in any way. Best of luck
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  • Just my personal view...

    Trying to tie up say 12 ads on one giant postcard is cool.

    But I find it easier doing 12 ads on 12 different postcards.

    Why is that then Steve?

    I like to tell the clients they have their very own, unique and wonderful Advertisng medium.

    Providing the copy, the targeted distribution and the offer is ace - the response usually proves it is.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Just my personal view...

      Trying to tie up say 12 ads on one giant postcard is cool.

      But I find it easier doing 12 ads on 12 different postcards.

      Why is that then Steve?

      I like to tell the clients they have their very own, unique and wonderful Advertisng medium.

      Providing the copy, the targeted distribution and the offer is ace - the response usually proves it is.


      Steve
      Anyone selling postcard ads is in effect (and often fact) a print broker.

      Calling on small businesses is a daily grind for many ad salesman. Those still selling 9x12 with 12 to 18 ads, let alone the 39 the guy in the OP claims, know it is not a set it and forget it business and it takes TIME.

      TIME is the issue, and the value one places on his/her hour. If it takes 3 weeks to fill up a 12 slot postcard with co-op ads, many salespeople are not much more than minimum wage employees.

      IF finding those businesses who can AFFORD a stand alone postcard is a relative fast process, then yes, of course, doing those makes more sense (and dollars).

      A few years ago we tested every variation of the co-op ads. But as a "print broker", you can offer upsells or downsells to any given busines you approach, start with their own, and if they balk at cost, a 2 or 3 panel card can be offered, or a 6 ad card...but above 6 ads, the slop and mess begin to seep in.

      Doing one 6 ad card a week for a paycheck of over 1k is very doable for anyone who only wants to spend about 30 hours a week working. Harder workers could do 1.5 cards, or give themselves about a 1500 dollar a week paycheck.

      A smart print broker gets other people to sell the ads and he offers the printing, even better; those who are doing both.

      There are lots of ways to make a paycheck selling ads. But postcards and EDDM make a powerful combination to offer to most small businesses who can simply test the concept via co-op and then try a stand alone. Success with either brings in a repeat customer, and a two month cycle (from our reseach) seems to be the sweet spot for getting renewals. Get to that point where you have several cards at work, and those 30 hours are reduced to 20 and profits soar from there.

      But glad to hear that someone is doing great with stand alone cards. We prefer a mix in order to offer whatever best suits our customers' needs and budget.

      GordonJ
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  • About 35 years ago I did sell advertising.

    Then became a copywriter.

    So, I'm not really "selling" ad space or print (mind you I wouldn't mind having the machine that savidge 4 has).

    I'm just transferring my undying love for phenomenal Postcards and persuading clients and anyone else who'll listen to me to have a bash at using them.

    I guess I'm "selling" the copy to make them as responsive as possible.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      About 35 years ago I did sell advertising.

      Then became a copywriter.

      So, I'm not really "selling" ad space or print (mind you I wouldn't mind having the machine that savidge 4 has).

      I'm just transferring my undying love for phenomenal Postcards and persuading clients and anyone else who'll listen to me to have a bash at using them.

      I guess I'm "selling" the copy to make them as responsive as possible.


      Steve
      You have EXISTING clients and you offer up a postcard?

      OR, you offer prospects your copywriting service and have them test it out on a postcard?

      It just doesn't make any sense to me, but I could be confused naturally. I think you are either offering postcards to businesses or you are not, could you explain the difference?

      So, maybe, you are offering an advertorial style postcard to your clients, with a strong offer on it and you mail to a list of some kind?

      We don't target anyone who will listen, we prefer a magnetic approach and offer an exclusive area, and easily trackable results with good offers, either as a stand alone as a co-op card.

      I'd love to know more if you are willing to share. Honestly, good copy on a postcard is a very small % of postcards, and most have a time limited offer, a good offer, which allows for analytics of conversions.

      I like advertorials, but they are hard to get to work to an EDDM or mass mailing and are most likely being sent to a very targeted audience. I just don't understand what you are offering.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        You have EXISTING clients and you offer up a postcard?

        OR, you offer prospects your copywriting service and have them test it out on a postcard?

        It just doesn't make any sense to me, but I could be confused naturally. I think you are either offering postcards to businesses or you are not, could you explain the difference?

        So, maybe, you are offering an advertorial style postcard to your clients, with a strong offer on it and you mail to a list of some kind?

        We don't target anyone who will listen, we prefer a magnetic approach and offer an exclusive area, and easily trackable results with good offers, either as a stand alone as a co-op card.

        I'd love to know more if you are willing to share. Honestly, good copy on a postcard is a very small % of postcards, and most have a time limited offer, a good offer, which allows for analytics of conversions.

        I like advertorials, but they are hard to get to work to an EDDM or mass mailing and are most likely being sent to a very targeted audience. I just don't understand what you are offering.

        GordonJ
        Here's my question that I know there isn't an exact answer for.

        All things being equal, am I better off spending a $1,000 on coop mail or $1,000 on solo postcards?

        Not going for exposure but going for response to a simple offer that doesn't need a long sales letter.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          Here's my question that I know there isn't an exact answer for.

          All things being equal, am I better off spending a $1,000 on coop mail or $1,000 on solo postcards?

          Not going for exposure but going for response to a simple offer that doesn't need a long sales letter.
          Things are NEVER equal. An attorney has different needs than a pizza shop.

          But, I agree with Ewen, start co-op, test. More important is who is the offer for?

          And if it is being area specific, like the Pizza shop, or more regional, like the lawyer.

          A roofer would do better (as most higher ticket items do) if they have their own card.

          Small businesses with low cost and walk in traffic need exclusivity on the card, only one pizza shop, or just one FOOD offer, unless you're doing a food card to an area saturated with food, then it is just a coupon offer, often a reminder, Hey were here too, don't need to eat burgers when you can have tacos too, type thing.

          A thousand dollars spent on a co-op, depending on number of ads, could go to 10,000 homes and businesses, which is probably overkill for an area pizza joint.

          A thousand dollars on a 6 panel card mailed to 2500 boxes within a mile or so, could get you 6 mails a year, or a combo of "branding" or awareness AND an offer, which can be changed or altered for seasonal specials, they could hit the same area, or there could be a rolling overlap, 1200 to those who rec'd the first one, 1200 to new addresses.

          I will agree with Steve that it depends on the client, or customer, and who his.her TARGET is. A roofer might want to reach all the homes in an older neighborhood, sending a card to a new housing devleopment is folly.

          Begin with the CUSTOMER, THE consumer of the thing, and when dealing with "clients" make sure they know who their target market is, and many don't.

          If you're selling copywriting services, I believe it to be standard operating procedure to gather up all that customer AVATAR info at the start, and many times you'll find your client hasn't done a very good job with that.

          But, the discussion, as I stated in the OP, really isn't about the copy or the offer on the cards, but the selling of ads on a postcard.

          Six slots IS an easier sell than 12 or 18 or (god forbid the 39 claimed by the guy in the OP)...

          Three, two or ONE advertiser on a card, could be, or could not be easier/faster, more effective.

          OF course, if you have copywriting skills and are selling ads on a postcard, you most certainly have a leg up on your competition.

          General rule of thumb (with countless exceptions), is the low cost walk in type business fares well on a co-op area specific postcard....

          Higher priced services and products, or a more regional nature, are better served (with exceptions) with a stand alone card.

          GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Tried to delete duplicate post SEVERAL TIMES, software glitch? I dunno. GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          Here's my question that I know there isn't an exact answer for.

          All things being equal, am I better off spending a $1,000 on coop mail or $1,000 on solo postcards?

          Not going for exposure but going for response to a simple offer that doesn't need a long sales letter.
          I personally believe there is a line in the sand that answers this question. IF you are trying to obtain leads, you go with a co-op. IF you are selling a product, then you go with solo. There are of course certain offers that will cross the line. Trades in general ( Plumber, Electrician, Heating and cooling, etc ) Health and beauty IE tanning salons, nails, hair etc

          I also have clients I do both... use the co-op efforts for branding, and then follow up cards later with a solo offer. Generally speaking the branding effort goes beyond only mailings IE newspaper, Billboards, etc.

          The point has been made... with a co-op your overall reach will be far greater in number BUT with a solo, your target will be far narrower. Keep in mind that Location needs to be a specific demographic point for a focussed solo mailer to work.

          If the offer is just an offer and the recipients location is not a variable... I would go woth a co-op effort.
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  • Most of my clients want website and email copy. Sales letters, press, magazine, facebook ads and on it goes...

    But I do like Phenomenal Postcards (and Fabulous Flyers).

    If I can see a "fit" (aka will Postcards help boost sales - very rare if they don't) I'll suggest them to the esteemed clients - old and new.

    I would never just send them to anyone who'll listen - but I'll happily ramble on about the untold benefits to clients.

    I do use advertorials on Postcards (always useful NOT to make the "Ad" look like an "Ad" and to make the "Ad" itself valuable).

    The copy is important but precise targeting and the "scarcity of the sensational" offer is usually the key to a rip roaring success.


    Steve


    P.S. Modern technology, the interweb and all the social mediums does bring me a sense of wonder.

    But despite exceptional copy and an irresistible offer it can be a huge fuss, take massive chunks of time and often a large expense to get "noticed" amongst all the clutter.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post - a Postcard/Flyer campaign lets me create a unique stand alone advertising medium exclusively for the client - low cost - with no immediate competition - and the Ad goes directly to the best prospects.

    And although it's possible - it is difficult for the specially chosen recipients to fling the card in the trash without at least glancing at the "message."

    Which is of course designed to entice them to read it all - and then the good people know when they respond they'll have great happiness and joy.

    And that is what makes advertising such a pleasure.


    Out of interest - the earliest known picture postcard was sent in 1840, posted in Fulham, London with a penny black stamp. In 2002 in sold for £31,750.00.
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  • Well... you're right, there may not be a definitive answer unless you test both.

    But you must check 2 vital points...

    There should be a greater number of multi - ad cards delivered (if not go solus).

    And you want the assurance there won't be any "competitors" on the card (if not solus it is).


    A multi card does scream - "Look, look, look I'm an Ad so I am!" (but I'm crammed full of great offers).

    And my view still applies difficult to bin it without looking at it.

    But your "message" may not be that noticeable amongst all the others (you could buy the "biggest" space on the card to help get the impact).


    If it was me - and I wanted all the odds in my favour in getting the best response possible - I would be tempted to do a solo card.

    But I am a bit biased.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I'd add to what Steve said.

      If it is an untested offer, use the shared mailer so
      that you have zero dollars invested at risk.

      Once you get responses that turn into money,
      then go solo.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author eccj
    A lot of great info.

    So the co-op is a great way to 1. Test an ad. 2. Do lead gen, especially not location specific. 3. Great for coupon type offers. 4. Contractors who will do follow up mail.

    Otherwise the solo is probably the way to go.

    Some other thoughts I have about this concept from the advertisers perspective;

    It would be awesome if such a thing existed in the local B2B space. We have a few local business publications but nothing like a M6 or a 9x12 in the business space. I don't think we even have a 9x12 in the area.

    The other ads could make a difference in the response rate. I'd imagine that being on a 6 ad postcard with 5 other food offerings would boost response vs being on there with windows, gutters, and car lots.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by eccj View Post

      A lot of great info.

      So the co-op is a great way to 1. Test an ad. 2. Do lead gen, especially not location specific. 3. Great for coupon type offers. 4. Contractors who will do follow up mail.

      Otherwise the solo is probably the way to go.

      Some other thoughts I have about this concept from the advertisers perspective;

      It would be awesome if such a thing existed in the local B2B space. We have a few local business publications but nothing like a M6 or a 9x12 in the business space. I don't think we even have a 9x12 in the area.

      The other ads could make a difference in the response rate. I'd imagine that being on a 6 ad postcard with 5 other food offerings would boost response vs being on there with windows, gutters, and car lots.
      It isn't talked about enough, but postcards distributed at TRADE SHOWS, to the businesses with booths set up, has done very well too...a very targeted crowd.

      Also, a Co-Op card, because it COULD have great value to the people who attend the show and fill up their plastic bags with all the goodies, and then sort through them later.

      For example, at BRIDAL shows, a co-op is great because it could have 600 dollars of value, say each advertiser offers a 100 buck off or coupon, which could be great for people shopping for bridal services.

      As for your b2b, most Chambers of Commerce, these days have at least a web site, but also many have their own bulleting boards and if you approach these leaders, you could a co-op which goes directly to their members, for services most small businesses need, like insurance and banking needs.

      We've also found success with the LUNCH TIME brown bag workshops, short little 30 minute presentations from business owners too.

      When you do your postcards via EDDM, you can elect to have them delivered to businesses too, and with all food offers, for example, a good idea because most people eat lunch. Not uncommon for lunch rooms to have several menus posted on their bulleting boards...so a coupon postcard, where the ads can be cut out and used as REWARD CARDS (buy 6 subs, get one free sort of thing).

      We're not too far away from seeing the coupon magazines in the mail box, the ValPak type of offers, becoming extinct.

      But postcards are so versatile, it really depends on your imagination, and of course,
      on your purpose and intent.

      Ask youself what you want the postcard to do, often, like a character in a story, it will give the answer you need as to the who, what, where, how and why of the thing.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author eccj
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        It isn't talked about enough, but postcards distributed at TRADE SHOWS, to the businesses with booths set up, has done very well too...a very targeted crowd.

        Also, a Co-Op card, because it COULD have great value to the people who attend the show and fill up their plastic bags with all the goodies, and then sort through them later.

        For example, at BRIDAL shows, a co-op is great because it could have 600 dollars of value, say each advertiser offers a 100 buck off or coupon, which could be great for people shopping for bridal services.

        As for your b2b, most Chambers of Commerce, these days have at least a web site, but also many have their own bulleting boards and if you approach these leaders, you could a co-op which goes directly to their members, for services most small businesses need, like insurance and banking needs.

        We've also found success with the LUNCH TIME brown bag workshops, short little 30 minute presentations from business owners too.

        When you do your postcards via EDDM, you can elect to have them delivered to businesses too, and with all food offers, for example, a good idea because most people eat lunch. Not uncommon for lunch rooms to have several menus posted on their bulleting boards...so a coupon postcard, where the ads can be cut out and used as REWARD CARDS (buy 6 subs, get one free sort of thing).

        We're not too far away from seeing the coupon magazines in the mail box, the ValPak type of offers, becoming extinct.

        But postcards are so versatile, it really depends on your imagination, and of course,
        on your purpose and intent.

        Ask youself what you want the postcard to do, often, like a character in a story, it will give the answer you need as to the who, what, where, how and why of the thing.

        GordonJ
        You mentioned something interesting there; Postcards that are not mailed.

        Have you seen good results for local businesses doing that? I'm guessing businesses leave them at their register or put them in bags for each other???
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by eccj View Post

          You mentioned something interesting there; Postcards that are not mailed.

          Have you seen good results for local businesses doing that? I'm guessing businesses leave them at their register or put them in bags for each other???
          In the programs where co-op ads, in several different forms, have been left on counters to be put in bags, on boxes, or in a stand alone display, they haven't worked. We no longer pursue this, but that is just our experience.

          Mostly, had trouble getting the person at the counter to complete the task, making sure their customer got the thing.

          Big difference going into a shop for some fast food, or sitting in a waiting room, and at trade shows and fairs, where people come specifically for what the thing is about.

          Again, only our experience, maybe someone else (who doesn't hawk or tout the thing) has more success. Hope so, but I haven't seen it yet.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author eccj
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            In the programs where co-op ads, in several different forms, have been left on counters to be put in bags, on boxes, or in a stand alone display, they haven't worked. We no longer pursue this, but that is just our experience.

            Mostly, had trouble getting the person at the counter to complete the task, making sure their customer got the thing.

            Big difference going into a shop for some fast food, or sitting in a waiting room, and at trade shows and fairs, where people come specifically for what the thing is about.

            Again, only our experience, maybe someone else (who doesn't hawk or tout the thing) has more success. Hope so, but I haven't seen it yet.

            GordonJ
            Makes sense. I can see where it would fall apart with employees.

            The trade show thing is pretty nifty.

            Are you charging for the space on the card at a profit or is it a way for you to get your message out at a trade show?

            I could see a life insurance agent wanting to be on cards at a bridal show where there are 5 other deals for weddings. A lot of people start thinking about buying life insurance when they get engaged/married.

            I can also see why exhibitors would want to be on the card. A lot of these expos are big and busy and it isn't possible to go to every booth, never mind talking to every exhibitor.

            A friend worked a few home shows for solar last year. He got a lot of leads but the leads were there to talk to every solar company and get the best price. I would imagine if they saw a postcard with a solar company on it they would go ahead and add that company to the bidding without ever talking to them or seeing them at the show.
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