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GAMES MLMers PLAY - And Why Gary Halbert Hated MLMers.

by AdmanMrWoo
100 replies
I don't hate MLMers. Gary did.
I see it as just another "business model"... but one where you can jump into for a small amount of cash... as oppose to buying a franchise to sell hamburgers.

But over the years, offering the service of marketing help to dudes and dudettes with "MARKETING" in their name (Multi-level-Marketing) or (Network Marketing)... it's surprising how little they understand "marketing costs".

Every business... that is... every business... let me repeat... every business has selling costs and marketing costs... even the MLM business.

Generally speaking, no matter what kind of business you're in, selling cars or card board boxes, you can expect at least a 20% costs of sales column in your financial records at year end.

And many MLMers expect to get sales "for free"... but boy are they mistaken.
If you have no marketing budget, then you're going to spend TIME, TIME, TIME, digging up the leads and converting them to cash and your TIME must be worth something. Right?

One of the "Games MLMers Play" ... at least with me... is they sometimes say... "Wow, Mr. Austin, if you're so good at marketing, why don't you just sign up with me and we'll both get rich."

Aren't they just cute? Never mind all the time and money I've invested in myself, my brain, and my level of skill and expertise, to be able to navigate my way around multiple marketing problems.

I should get them all in a room at the same time, and let them all shout out in four-part harmony: "Wow, Mr. Austin, if you're so good at marketing, why don't you just sign up with me and we'll both get rich."... "no me"... "no me" ... "no me".

Gary hated MLMers as they did not have the $15,000 bucks to hire him to write a sales letter.

And, it also cost time, time and more time, to educate most MLMers to understand the value of "direct marketing"... online or offline, and so, MLMers are as frustrating as any other market for a old-fashion copywriting dude.

No matter what business you're in, you're going to have SELLING COSTS involved.

The goal is to lower your "cost per lead" and your "cost per sale".

I don't hate MLMers. In fact, I'm sympathic to their challenges.



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#games #gary #halbert #hated #mlmers #play
  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

    I don't hate MLMers. Gary did.
    I see it as just another "business model"... but one where you can jump into for a small amount of cash... as oppose to buying a franchise to sell hamburgers.

    But over the years, offering the service of marketing help to dudes and dudettes with "MARKETING" in their name (Multi-level-Marketing) or (Network Marketing)... it's surprising how little they understand "marketing costs".

    Every business... that is... every business... let me repeat... every business has selling costs and marketing costs... even the MLM business.

    Generally speaking, no matter what kind of business you're in, selling cars or card board boxes, you can expect at least a 20% costs of sales column in your financial records at year end.

    And many MLMers expect to get sales "for free"... but boy are they mistaken.
    If you have no marketing budget, then you're going to spend TIME, TIME, TIME, digging up the leads and converting them to cash and your TIME must be worth something. Right?

    One of the "Games MLMers Play" ... at least with me... is they sometimes say... "Wow, Mr. Austin, if you're so good at marketing, why don't you just sign up with me and we'll both get rich."

    Aren't they just cute? Never mind all the time and money I've invested in myself, my brain, and my level of skill and expertise, to be able to navigate my way around multiple marketing problems.

    I should get them all in a room at the same time, and let them all shout out in four-part harmony: "Wow, Mr. Austin, if you're so good at marketing, why don't you just sign up with me and we'll both get rich."... "no me"... "no me" ... "no me".

    Gary hated MLMers as they did not have the $15,000 bucks to hire him to write a sales letter.

    And, it also cost time, time and more time, to educate most MLMers to understand the value of "direct marketing"... online or offline, and so, MLMers are as frustrating as any other market for a old-fashion copywriting dude.

    No matter what business you're in, you're going to have SELLING COSTS involved.

    The goal is to lower your "cost per lead" and your "cost per sale".

    I don't hate MLMers. In fact, I'm sympathic to their challenges.



    [Promotional text and link removed by moderator]
    MLM and IM share a few things:

    1) Low cost of entry. A sample kit, maybe in MLM, a website, maybe, in IM.

    2) No licenses needed, available to anyone.

    3) HIGH failure rate, maybe as much as 90+%. Because...

    4) Both are entered into by the under educated (in business), the desperate, the dreamer, the unprepared.

    I am NOT sympathetic to the challenges these people bring with them.

    First, Mr. Austin, you know the math, as you've demonstrated over and over as regards Remote Direct Marketing. Costs of customer acquisition is one of many MATH problems lost on these two groups.

    Both are a "numbers game", but the majority don't know WHAT numbers, or how to find them or how to use them.

    They enter unprepared and Most (majority) quit after a few months of frustration, failure and frazzle or in IM, keep at it 3, 5, 7 years and report back here about how hard it is...some even going a decade or longer trying to reach some IM hill top.

    Hate may be a strong word, but sympathy? Why?

    NOPE, I don't hate, nor do I sympathize, but mostly IGNORE as perhaps, most business people do these MLM/IM types of people.

    GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


      Hate may be a strong word, but sympathy? Why?

      NOPE, I don't hate, nor do I sympathize, but mostly IGNORE as perhaps, most business people do these MLM/IM types of people.

      GordonJ
      ......Ditto
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    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      MLM and IM share a few things:

      1) Low cost of entry. A sample kit, maybe in MLM, a website, maybe, in IM.

      2) No licenses needed, available to anyone.

      3) HIGH failure rate, maybe as much as 90+%. Because...

      4) Both are entered into by the under educated (in business), the desperate, the dreamer, the unprepared.

      I am NOT sympathetic to the challenges these people bring with them.

      First, Mr. Austin, you know the math, as you've demonstrated over and over as regards Remote Direct Marketing. Costs of customer acquisition is one of many MATH problems lost on these two groups.

      Both are a "numbers game", but the majority don't know WHAT numbers, or how to find them or how to use them.

      They enter unprepared and Most (majority) quit after a few months of frustration, failure and frazzle or in IM, keep at it 3, 5, 7 years and report back here about how hard it is...some even going a decade or longer trying to reach some IM hill top.

      Hate may be a strong word, but sympathy? Why?

      NOPE, I don't hate, nor do I sympathize, but mostly IGNORE as perhaps, most business people do these MLM/IM types of people.

      GordonJ

      I LOVE YOUR POSTS...

      Speaking of knowing your "costs of customer acquisition" ... gotta tell you this story... I was a speaker at a MEMBERSHIP HVAC convention... during lunch, I'm at a table with several HVAC contractors. One contractor says to another, "What's your cost per lead and cost per sale?" ... Gordon, I nearly fell out of my chair... finally, a contractor who GETS IT...

      Turns out, this contractor was the first in Florida to get his trucks wrapped in that fancy signage thing which you now see everywhere. As I recall, he said the truck wrap cost about $5,000 bucks... but it was bringing him leads at about $17 dollars per phone call. (This, compared to his yellow page ads which brought him leads at about $250 per phone call.)

      He was a smart operator. Good at marketing and management.



      REGARDING MLMers... who need to market...
      I have a direct mail system in my back pocket that would "kick ass" for MLMers.

      I know where to get some highly responsive mailing lists of folks who are looking for a business opportunity... and I create "blind" letters to mail out to them. A "blind" letter makes them raise their hand, asking for more information about the opportunity. It's a system that has generated a 32% response depending on the right list.

      But with MLMers, it's typical to generate an income of about $10,000 a month, with just 100 people in your downline... and once you reach that income, you can coast for 5 or 10 years before your downline needs to be replenished.



      REGARDING MARKETING COSTS FOR MLMers:

      If the goal is to get 100 people in your downline, and generate $10,000 a month off of it... how much would be be willing to spend to get the 100 folks signed up?
      Using my direct mail method, you're looking at list rental, postage, printing, stuffing, creative fee, a little consulting... let's say it cost you $10,000 to get your 100 sign-ups... (it won't, but lets say it does)... then... you'd make your money back on the 2nd month. Right?



      Most MLMers won't spend a dime on marketing because the guy who signed them up told them "just reach out to your family and friends"... so they do... and then get UNinvited to Thanksgiving dinner.



      The reason it takes 100 sign-ups to get around $10,000 a month in income, is that 80 of those folks will be lazy and do NOTHING for you. But 20 will hustle. Good news.



      Just thinking.

      Linwood
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      MLM and IM share a few things:

      1) Low cost of entry. A sample kit, maybe in MLM, a website, maybe, in IM.

      2) No licenses needed, available to anyone.

      3) HIGH failure rate, maybe as much as 90+%. Because...

      4) Both are entered into by the under educated (in business), the desperate, the dreamer, the unprepared.

      I am NOT sympathetic to the challenges these people bring with them.

      First, Mr. Austin, you know the math, as you've demonstrated over and over as regards Remote Direct Marketing. Costs of customer acquisition is one of many MATH problems lost on these two groups.

      Both are a "numbers game", but the majority don't know WHAT numbers, or how to find them or how to use them.

      They enter unprepared and Most (majority) quit after a few months of frustration, failure and frazzle or in IM, keep at it 3, 5, 7 years and report back here about how hard it is...some even going a decade or longer trying to reach some IM hill top.

      Hate may be a strong word, but sympathy? Why?

      NOPE, I don't hate, nor do I sympathize, but mostly IGNORE as perhaps, most business people do these MLM/IM types of people.

      GordonJ
      Although I don't have anything against the MLM model....here is why it isn't interesting to me.

      You are selling a business model, complete with marketing and selling...to non-business people. And you are (by necessity) selling the concept as being totally without selling and marketing.

      Hate to sell? join an MLM....where selling is basically the job description.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Although I don't have anything against the MLM model....here is why it isn't interesting to me.

        You are selling a business model, complete with marketing and selling...to non-business people. And you are (by necessity) selling the concept as being totally without selling and marketing.

        Hate to sell? join an MLM....where selling is basically the job description.
        I don't do MLM because I did it...once.

        I sold it by phone and got them to three-way call a friend (lead) and intro me...
        and I added them to the down-line. Another word I was building their down-line for them on the phone. My mistake was I stopped at five deep and gave them the same script and assumed they would all do it once I taught them how. Ya know because we could all get rich together.... Muhahahahahahahahaha

        Nobody works as hard as you do.

        Lesson learned - never again.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          I don't do MLM because I did it...once.

          I sold it by phone and got them to three-way call a friend (lead) and intro me...
          and I added them to the down-line. Another word I was building their down-line for them on the phone. My mistake was I stopped at five deep and gave them the same script and assumed they would all do it once I taught them how. Ya know because we could all get rich together.... Muhahahahahahahahaha

          Nobody works as hard as you do.

          Lesson learned - never again.
          I've been in a few over the decades. One I made money in. Real money.
          We were selling Alpine air purifiers for $600 each. It cost (I believe) $2,500 to get in the business, mostly for inventory.

          I had a friend who started in that company by recruiting 5 tested, established, successful business people. And he never recruited again. They each built a huge business. For several years, he was earning $500,000 a year with that company. He was the biggest distributor in the world (and it was a huge company). He had one full time employee who was in charge of shipping and receiving the air purifiers. He was selling that many.

          It was the only MLM I was ever in where it attracted salespeople, because real money could be made from selling at retail. And I did really well with it.

          But....most distributors in the company were non-salespeople...who bought in for $2,500 each, because they bought the idea that sales were automatic, that the demand was high.

          After a couple of years, my biggest chunk of money was made buying the inventory from inactive distributors for 20% of what they paid, and sold it myself. It was a heavily "front loaded" marketing plan, and that's where most of the money was made (in the company), loading garages full of unsold inventory.

          You and Kay are right. We make money because we have drive and skills. But the people several layers down, still making nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Hate to sell? join an MLM....where selling is basically the job description.

    Have posted something about this in the past but that brought it back to me.


    My first online venture was an MLM - I did quite well - made money - was in the top 10 and top 20 'earners' month after month (sound like more money than it was in reality)....built two sites to train my 'downline'. After a couple years I took a hard look at my downline of 3000 people and realized they were feeding MY success but very few were finding any success for themselves.


    I went into the MLM with years of sales experience so it never occurred to me I couldn't sell it. When I realized I was selling something other people could not succeed in....I quit the mlm and never joined another one.


    WAY back I was stumped on something Halbert had written - at the time I didn't know he was a 'big deal' - I sent him an email and said 'could you explain a bit - I'm tearing my hair out on this problem'.


    Halbert responded quickly with an email explaining the part i didn't understand....and the email began with 'at least you have hair'..
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

    I don't hate MLMers. Gary did.
    I see it as just another "business model"... but one where you can jump into for a small amount of cash... as oppose to buying a franchise to sell hamburgers.
    MLM is a business model that gives false hope.

    And in many cases it's cult like; turning family members against each other.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    I'm making a prediction right now. Within a few months, many MLM distributors will claim that their stuff could cure Caronavirus.

    For a long time, it was almost a given that the excited MLMer would say that "I hear this could be the cure for cancer". I heard that so often it made my teeth grind.

    This isn't the companies saying this, but the over zealous distributors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Did you see the Jim Baker news? Remember the Jim and Tammy show - and the downfall from that? He's been trying to promote that silver 'stuff' as a cure and was told to cease and desist....once a scammer, always a scammer.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Did you see the Jim Baker news? Remember the Jim and Tammy show - and the downfall from that? He's been trying to promote that silver 'stuff' as a cure and was told to cease and desist....once a scammer, always a scammer.
      And now he's being sued by the Attorney General of the State...
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Did you see the Jim Baker news? Remember the Jim and Tammy show - and the downfall from that? He's been trying to promote that silver 'stuff' as a cure and was told to cease and desist....once a scammer, always a scammer.
      Maybe he likes prison.

      To scam someone - meh - it takes a certain type,
      but to scam in a way that you know will cause loss of life.
      Ooof, that simply raises the bar in a way that I don't understand.

      I mean, these people aren't mentally ill...are they?
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        Maybe he likes prison.

        To scam someone - meh - it takes a certain type,
        but to scam in a way that you know will cause loss of life.
        Ooof, that simply raises the bar in a way that I don't understand.

        I mean, these people aren't mentally ill...are they?
        Psychopaths. They just don't feel empathy at all. That doesn't always mean they are evil, but in this case, kind of.
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    It should be emphasized here that Jim Baker's horrendous scams never had a connection with any MLM company. There are bad apples in every industry. And, reputable MLM companies these days have become extremely focused on reigning in rogue distributors
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      It should be emphasized here that Jim Baker's horrendous scams never had a connection with any MLM company. There are bad apples in every industry. And, reputable MLM companies these days have become extremely focused on reigning in rogue distributors
      I agree. In fact, in every instance where I have heard a claim made that's just not true...it came from an over zealous distributor, not the company.

      And yes, it's true in every industry, even my own.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      It should be emphasized here that Jim Baker's horrendous scams never had a connection with any MLM company. There are bad apples in every industry. And, reputable MLM companies these days have become extremely focused on reigning in rogue distributors
      I disagree. Televangelism might be the worst MLM of them all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        I disagree. Televangelism might be the worst MLM of them all.
        Actually it's a very workable model. It also has the advantage of no product cost, no refunds, and no cost of fulfillment.

        For a short time, I considered starting a small cult. I had everything I needed. A narcissistic personality, a streak of psychopathy, and the ability to sell.

        But I knew that very shortly, I would find myself feeling contempt for anyone following me.
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        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          For a short time, I considered starting a small cult.
          Haven't you got one... on here...
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

            Haven't you got one... on here...
            Not here.

            But I was giving a seminar at a vacuum cleaner trade show (where I'm well known).

            At the break, a woman said to me "You're a rock star".

            And I said "Only in this room".

            Trust me, Anyone that's impressed with me, doesn't know me well enough. I suspect it's like that with most people.
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    Every type of business has its positives and negatives. A true Businessman can succeed in any type of market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Five Things That Always Happen At MLM Seminars

    1. They Answer Your Questions
    and after they walk away you discover that your wallet was pinched.

    2. They Want To Hear Your Opinions
    but cannot remember your first name after you wake up with them the next morning.

    3. They Lean In As You Interact With Them
    with a hammer held behind their back.

    4. They Introduce You To Others
    that are into Vibrating Credit Cards tucked into their pocket.

    5. They Ask You Questions and Before You Know It They Have
    • Your Credit card number
    • Your Social security Number
    • Your KFC Coupon Tucked Away In Your Wallet
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Yeah, but they melt on your tongue tho.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo



    PLEASE NOTE: IT'S JUST NOT EXCITING TO WATCH A BALL GAME, UNLESS YOU WATCH THE SCORE BOARD.



    IF YOU really want to improve your business skills, learn to read financial statements. They're beautiful really.



    They reveal what you're doing right and wrong.

    The above snap shot is from a direct mail effort, of pieces mailed, response rates and profitability.



    If you need help reading financial statements, reach out to me.

    I might be able to lend a hand.

    Yes, I'm an ole fashion copywriter, direct response style... but direct response is all about getting the numbers right.



    Leave a comment if you think this photo is perhaps the most beautiful shot you've seen in a long time.

    Linwood Austin
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    • Profile picture of the author SARubin
      Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

      Leave a comment if you think this photo is perhaps the most beautiful shot you've seen in a long time.

      Linwood Austin
      Well Linwood, I don't know if it's the most beautiful shot I've seen, but seeing your post on this forum did bring a tear of joy to my eye

      (But just in case my wife ever sees this post, then let it be known... Linwood, your pic is only the second most beautiful shot I've seen recently )
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.
      Even if it would guarantee you a million dollars of sales in one year...?

      People pay me more than that for my email and direct mail campaigns...

      However, I'm not a believer in sales scripts. If there was one magic script that always worked, in every situation, the owner wouldn't want to sell it, would they...?
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.
      15k is cheap in the real world.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.
      In some circles, that is considered an intro price.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.

      A tested sales script writer? A sales script with a a pitch, qualifying questions, answers to anticipated objections? Closes?

      And if the writer helped with list selection (assuming you aren't calling old customers) that could make a huge difference. In fact, calling old customers would be the best list available.

      Yeah, $15,000 is what you would be charged, to allow the Guru access to your company.

      My guess is that it would be more like $15,000 up front and 20% of the increase in sales over the next few years. Of course, this would be a script for a company, not just a sole telemarketer.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.
      This is typical Warrior type thinking. Drawing upon YOUR own limited experiences to make judgments about what other people do.

      One solution would be, get to KNOW more people, people who would, will and DO pay 15k for a sales script.

      Most Warriors would do much better if they left their personal experiences checked at the door and submersed themselves in the wisdom, experience and skills of those Warriors who are doing well in the world.

      And you would find many of those in this thread.

      When we get out of our own heads, and allow other people's experience in, then the magic happens.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        This is typical Warrior type thinking. Drawing upon YOUR own limited experiences to make judgments about what other people do.
        To be fair, we all go through the learning curve.

        Since this thread is about MLM, let's use that as an example.

        We all know plenty of people who have put money into an MLM program (usually for inventory), and did nothing with it. If you talk to any of them, they will say some variation of "MLM sucks. I was ripped off. Only the people at the top make money".

        Why? Because they didn't give it any time. They didn't learn how to make it work. they didn't invest in training that actually works.

        The smartest thing they/we could do is see someone who is a tad more successful (in the same business) as you want to be. Model what they do. Don't talk to the 90% that do nothing, talk to the 10% that do something, and keep learning.

        When I decided I wanted to open a retail store selling vacuum cleaners, I found the most successful retailer in Ohio, and worked for him, and studied what he did. Six months later, I had my own store, and it was profitable from the start.

        Listen to people who know more than you do (about the specific challenge/business).

        And at the beginning, it's hard to know who to listen to...everyone giving advice sounds the same. See the results they get. Judge based on that.

        Yes...I love the sound of my own voice.
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        • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


          Yes...I love the sound of my own voice.

          Aw, but yeah -- don't evrywan want a little gentle accompaniment in the foreground?


          tbh I still figure my M&Ms wisecrack is the TAKE HOME & FRAME moment from this entire trail, but I too chained to the floor of my apartment now to max out on hoobris without mebbe snappin' my arms off at the wrists.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          To be fair, we all go through the learning curve.

          Since this thread is about MLM, let's use that as an example.

          We all know plenty of people who have put money into an MLM program (usually for inventory), and did nothing with it. If you talk to any of them, they will say some variation of "MLM sucks. I was ripped off. Only the people at the top make money".

          Why? Because they didn't give it any time. They didn't learn how to make it work. they didn't invest in training that actually works.

          The smartest thing they/we could do is see someone who is a tad more successful (in the same business) as you want to be. Model what they do. Don't talk to the 90% that do nothing, talk to the 10% that do something, and keep learning.
          When I first started in MLM, I went to the distributor who was achieving the kind of lifestyle I wanted. Even though I was nine levels below in his downline then, he mentored me for nearly 20 years. He would always dress flashy and drive up to events in an exotic car, "it's all just part of the marketing game", he would say.

          Few people would ever see behind this was countless direct mailings, telemarketing, advertising, investments, training, books, courses, personal development, etc. Just like any other business. MLM is just another business model, and requires a sales and marketing mindset. You can never train turkeys to fly like eagles.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            Just like any other business. MLM is just another business model, and requires a sales and marketing mindset. You can never train turkeys to fly like eagles.
            And, taking that analogy further...

            My experience is that eagle attract eagles...and some pigeons, and some turkeys.

            Pigeons attract other pigeons...and turkeys.

            Turkeys attract turkeys.

            The problem is, you attract sideways and down.....which means you recruit sideways and down.

            One great argument to use marketing to build your business in MLM. It can be duplicated by serious newbies..
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        This is typical Warrior type thinking. Drawing upon YOUR own limited experiences to make judgments about what other people do.

        One solution would be, get to KNOW more people, people who would, will and DO pay 15k for a sales script.

        Most Warriors would do much better if they left their personal experiences checked at the door and submersed themselves in the wisdom, experience and skills of those Warriors who are doing well in the world.

        And you would find many of those in this thread.

        When we get out of our own heads, and allow other people's experience in, then the magic happens.

        GordonJ
        Damn Gordon.. just damn. Mean that in a good way.
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    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.

      Dear Sir,

      If you think $15,000 is a "ripoff"... what about paying $100 bucks for a salescript that brings you NO leads and NO sales? That, my friend is a "ripoff".



      I've been paid $15,000 for a post card... back before the internet made everyone a "marketing genius".

      Obviously you're now a marketing genius.

      You see, it's not the cost of the creative you're paying for...

      Nor is it the cost of the ad.

      It's your cost per lead and cost per sale.

      It doesn't matter what you pay for creative if it doesn't work... you must measure your cost per lead... and cost per sale.

      The internet is filled with folks who want to market and they have nothing but time on their hands... so they wing it... never realizing THE TIME they spend winging it costs something too.

      How much time and creative effort to you put into marketing that finally pays off? You must measure that.

      Since we started this thread chatting 'bout MLM guys... you have to know... most MLMers don't make it because they wing it... and don't really invest time and money developing a system which gives them LEADS and SALES at a decent cost.

      The guys who make it big in MLM... a lot of them... are heavy marketers.

      They are into direct mail, writing books, public speaking, generating leads in magazines and newspapers, doing everything they can to gen up a HUGE email list. No one sleeps their way to success.

      The list of folks who've gotten paid $15,000 or more to create "salescripts" is a long list. Gary Halbert, Jay Abraham, Gary Bencevinga, Brian Keith Voiles, and tons of modern day ace copywriters who can't be bothered chatting on this forum.

      And of course, the companies that hired them were not one-man shops. No. They were highly successful companies who knew the cost of selling.

      If you don't hire talent to help you sell... you're stuck selling all by yourself.

      Cost per Lead and Cost per Sale is an advanced marketing concept that most business owners never look at. They might know how much they spend on advertising... like say "I spend $5,000 per month"... but they don't break it down to see cost per lead, and cost per sale.

      I bought a plumbing business years ago. And the former owner spent about $5,000 a month in ads, but did not measure it like I'm telling you.

      I did. And I figured out that he was paying about $300 per phone call from plumbing prospects (homeowners).

      I changed things around and got my cost per phone call down to about $17.50 per phone call.

      What's the difference between $300 per call and $17.50 per call? Profits baby, profits.



      So, Mr. Durable... what are your sales costs at the moment?

      No one gets outta here without sales costs!
      Note: Some leads are cheap but they don't convert to sales. You have to measure both.

      Also note: Some leads buy one time, but don't buy again. You have to measure your sales costs.

      Just thinking.

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    • Profile picture of the author Monetize
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.

      People will pay that, and more, for a winning sales script.
      Just like they will pay tens of thousands for sales funnels,
      webinars, websites and all the other marketing systems
      that they think will get them a return on their investment.
      They will happily pay that money like it's chump change
      and think nothing of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThePromotionalGuy
      Hellor D,

      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      I do not know anyone who would pay $15,000 for a salescript. That sounds like a ripoff.
      Me thinks...

      ...You do

      But...

      ...You needed to ruffle some feathers!

      Chinchilla
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  • Profile picture of the author myob
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    And, taking that analogy further...

    My experience is that eagle attract eagles...and some pigeons, and some turkeys.

    Pigeons attract other pigeons...and turkeys.

    Turkeys attract turkeys.

    The problem is, you attract sideways and down.....which means you recruit sideways and down.

    One great argument to use marketing to build your business in MLM. It can be duplicated by serious newbies..
    The eagle, commonly symbolic for an "empire" can circle over pigeons and turkeys which are producing small gains over time. Some of us also have monkeys and clowns doing the same.

    However, what may seem to be a baby pigeon or turkey at first sometimes turns out to be an eagle. I even have a monthly training event for my top direct recruits and promising downline producers called "The Eagles' Nest".

    Monkeys and clowns are excluded.
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    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      Originally Posted by myob View Post

      The eagle, commonly symbolic for an "empire" can circle over pigeons and turkeys which are producing small gains over time. Some of us also have monkeys and clowns doing the same.

      However, what may seem to be a baby pigeon or turkey at first sometimes turns out to be an eagle. I even have a monthly training event for my top direct recruits and promising downline producers called "The Eagles' Nest".

      Monkeys and clowns are excluded.

      MOST of the biggest MLMers come from the wealthiest zip codes. Meaning that those guys already have success in their blood, so if you recruit from that zip code, you'll more likely recruit winners.



      If you want that zip code list, let me know.

      Linwood
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

        MOST of the biggest MLMers come from the wealthiest zip codes. Meaning that those guys already have success in their blood, so if you recruit from that zip code, you'll more likely recruit winners.
        I used to think that, and have recruited many millionaires and even one multi-millionaire. They are not generally interested in spending time for building a duplicatable business - the very heart of the MLM business model.

        In my experience, unless they have built their own businesses or rose from the ranks to C-level management, even affluent people seldom have "success in their blood" and doing what it takes for long-term success in MLM.

        In addition to my ongoing recruiting system, I've also had excellent success from buying MLM genealogy lists; well-trained distributors from failing or defunct MLM companies. Often, they bring along part of their downlines.

        "You gotta be hungry!"
        - Les Brown
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by myob View Post


          In addition to my ongoing recruiting system, I've also had excellent success from buying MLM genealogy lists; well-trained distributors from failing or defunct MLM companies. Often, they bring along part of their downlines.
          You can get those lists? Of course, that would be the smartest, fastest way to build a business.
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            You can get those lists? Of course, that would be the smartest, fastest way to build a business.
            Such lists are all over the internet. Most recently I've been getting them through:
            downlinereports.com/lists.html
            Another excellent source I've used for many years is:
            ultimatesuccesscds.com, which includes a decent (although incomplete) training system.

            But, this method is not for the newbie. In a nutshell genealogy lists are a lists of people who have previously been either a customer or a distributor in an MLM company. Most of the time, the company is already out of business, but not always.

            There are times when someone with a significant downline decides to quit the MLM industry, and if he does this, often times he will sell his downline organization report.

            They realize there is value in their genealogy report, and often times thinking of his downline's future, decides to share it with people interested in continuing on in the industry.
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            • Profile picture of the author wentzco
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              Such lists are all over the internet. Most recently I've been getting them through:
              downlinereports.com/lists.html
              These lists are "ancient" and way out of date. Check the date at the bottom of the site "(C)opyright 2004-2011". I doubt any of these lists are newer than 16 years old. How do I know? I recognize names of the companies. 20+ years ago I was the National Sales Director for a nutritional MLM when the owner decided to merge into a company on that list (even though our sales were good) because of the ties to the well-known Taebo name.... they didn't last. Infomercial marketers can't necessarily operate a network marketing company. Another company on that list had offered me a National Sales Director position back in 1999 but I stayed with my current company. They went out of business in 2003-2004 primarily because of distributor health claims which brought both the FTC & FDA down on them "hard".


              I had been mostly out of the MLM industry for 20 years until recently & would love to get some recent "physical mailing addresses" of certain companies but I don't think that option can be found anymore. However via social media searches you definitely can connect up to people in various companies. LinkedIn is easy to find reps in companies, Twitter also is easy to see followers of companies, people commenting on or liking/retweeting their posts or tweeting out rep/affiliate links. Facebook connecting also can be done in a similar passion. I'm not a fan of using message box pitches but indeed there are reps who have built massive organizations on Facebook doing it.
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by wentzco View Post

                These lists are "ancient" and way out of date. Check the date at the bottom of the site "(C)opyright 2004-2011". I doubt any of these lists are newer than 16 years old.
                Thanks for the heads up. I just bought over 5,000 MLM genealogy lists by email subscription 11 days ago, and have been doing that for well over 15 years. It's from Tracy Biller, who apparently took it over without updating it. His website is ultimatesuccesscds.com. Contact information is on the website.
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                • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                  I've got access to some pretty hot, fresh biz up lists.

                  Reach out to me and I'll connect you.

                  Linwood
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                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                    I've got access to some pretty hot, fresh biz op lists.
                    Biz op leads are usually a waste of time for MLM offers or anything else that requires work. They are almost always broke, lazy, and uncoachable.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      Biz op leads are usually a waste of time for MLM offers or anything else that requires work. They are almost always broke, lazy, and uncoachable.
                      True. But what they are good for is selling a dream. As long as that dream entails an up front investment. These Opportunity Seekers are good for an MLM where there is heavy front loading.......or a Matrix where the pitch is simply to buy a position.

                      But selling? Managing? That's not their thing.
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                      • Profile picture of the author myob
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        These Opportunity Seekers are good for an MLM where there is heavy front loading.......or a Matrix where the pitch is simply to buy a position.
                        There are lots of different names for this practice, but it is not MLM.
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                    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      Biz op leads are usually a waste of time for MLM offers or anything else that requires work. They are almost always broke, lazy, and uncoachable.

                      I have some clients and friends, who've made a ton of money off biz op leads.

                      But generally speaking they use BLIND OFFERS... first.



                      Here is one:

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                      • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                        long ago... when roads were built everywhere... "they" said "Well, that's the end of direct mail, because now everyone can drive into town to buy their goods."



                        Well... it wasn't the end of direct mail.
                        And the internet is not the end of direct mail either.



                        Just thinkin'
                        Linwood
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                      I have some clients and friends, who've made a ton of money off biz op leads.
                      No argument there at all. I personally know a marketer who is making $19+ million a year mailing to biz op leads.

                      Hardly any are repeat customers.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        No argument there at all. I personally know a marketer who is making $19+ million a year mailing to biz op leads.

                        Hardly any are repeat customers.
                        Right. Not with the same marketer. But these leads are gold for the next marketer

                        It's like Gurus. Some of the best leads are people who just dropped out of a $1,000 a month coaching program.

                        Opportunity seekers don't stop being opportunity seekers (Dreamers) after one attempt. And Guru coaching clients just go to the next Guru. A lot of my friends are paying $1,000-$1,5000 a month to someone they think is smarter than they are. And they get disappointed, and just plug into the next Guru.
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Right. Not with the same marketer. But these leads are gold for the next marketer

                      It's like Gurus. Some of the best leads are people who just dropped out of a $1,000 a month coaching program.

                      Opportunity seekers don't stop being opportunity seekers (Dreamers) after one attempt. And Guru coaching clients just go to the next Guru. A lot of my friends are paying someone $1,000-$1,5000 a month to someone they think is smarter than they are. And they get disappointed, and just plug into the next Guru.
                      Selling dreams is a 250 billion+ dollar a year industry. Direct sales, affiliate marketing, and MLM business models are producing multi-millionaires year after year. The real work, however, is often covered up in the glitz and glamour from hard-earned success. For most people, it seems their dreams just fade away because their reasons why are not strong enough.

                      "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."
                      - Henry David Thoreau
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."
                        - Henry David Thoreau
                        "Many MLM people think they want to learn how to fish. After a day in the Sun, the mosquitoes, thirst, boredom....and the thought of having to worm a hook and clean a fish....they just end up buying a fish sandwich" Claude Whitacre

                        The problem with most MLM distributors is that they are trying to sell a sales industry to non-sales people. A business opportunity to non-business people. So they sell the dream, because that doesn't include cleaning the fish.

                        Sad. Because the actual work is where you get the benefit. It's not the money, it's the effort. That's the reward.

                        "Become a millionaire not for the million dollars, but for what it will make of you to achieve it." Jim Rohn.
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                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          "Many MLM people think they want to learn how to fish. After a day in the Sun, the mosquitoes, thirst, boredom....and the thought of having to worm a hook and clean a fish....they just end up buying a fish sandwich" Claude Whitacre
                          "Give a man a fish sandwich and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to drive traffic to your sandwich stand and you have an affiliate. Frontload him with fish concentrate and a book of motivational quotes, then you'll have a MLM business."
                          - Big Dream Book of Affiliate and Network Marketing Quotes for the Non-Salesy Pro
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      Selling dreams is a 250 billion+ dollar a year industry. Direct sales, affiliate marketing, and MLM business models are producing multi-millionaires year after year. The real work, however, is often covered up in the glitz and glamour from hard-earned success. For most people, it seems their dreams just fade away because their reasons why are not strong enough.

                      "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."
                      - Henry David Thoreau
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      "Many MLM people think they want to learn how to fish. After a day in the Sun, the mosquitoes, thirst, boredom....and the thought of having to worm a hook and clean a fish....they just end up buying a fish sandwich" Claude Whitacre

                      The problem with most MLM distributors is that they are trying to sell a sales industry to non-sales people. A business opportunity to non-business people. So they sell the dream, because that doesn't include cleaning the fish.

                      Sad. Because the actual work is where you get the benefit. It's not the money, it's the effort. That's the reward.

                      "Become a millionaire not for the million dollars, but for what it will make of you to achieve it." Jim Rohn.
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      "Give a man a fish sandwich and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to drive traffic to your sandwich stand and you have an affiliate. Frontload him with fish concentrate and a book of motivational quotes, then you'll have a MLM business."
                      - Big Dream Book of Affiliate and Network Marketing Quotes for the Non-Salesy Pro

                      Interesting Analogies "Fisherman .. Fishing" when comparing "MLM"
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                        Interesting Analogies "Fisherman .. Fishing" when comparing "MLM"
                        Another comparison of fishing to MLM is that.....

                        Most of the time you are fishing, you are just standing there, doing nothing...while pretending that you are in a sport.


                        Of course,that isn't all MLM people...but MLM attracts that kind of person....just like internet marketing...and getting rich in real estate.
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                      • Profile picture of the author myob
                        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                        Interesting Analogies "Fisherman .. Fishing" when comparing "MLM"
                        The concept of MLM is not to go out fishing for fish. We fish for confident and motivated fishermen who can be taught how to go out whaling.

                        "Confidence is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you."
                        - Zig Ziglar
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by myob View Post

                          "Confidence is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you."
                          - Zig Ziglar
                          A little off the subject.

                          I remember the first time I heard Zig say that at a speech. I was in my early 20s. A lifetime ago.

                          I always hated that analogy. Once, a friend (in sales) repeated it to me and I said something like...

                          "It's not confidence, it's stupidity. Only a fool would go after a whale in a rowboat. And why would you waste all that money and weight on enough tarter sauce for a whale? And where are you going to cook the whale? In a rowboat? You would leave the tarter sauce on land, because there is no possibility that it would come in handy in your rowboat. Confidence is going after Moby Dick with a whale ship, with experienced whalers...knowing the whale's last location and direction...and already having a buyer for the whale. When you get back, you can eat part of the whale...and now you can use your tarter sauce. Confidence comes from being prepared."


                          The other Zig story that makes my teeth grind is the one about "A bumble bee is too big and heavy to fly. But he doesn't know that...so he flies anyway" (something like that).

                          No. A bumble bee can fly because the laws of physics allow it. The story is insinuating that "Your ignorance is your greatest asset".

                          But both stories would get cheers from the Zig audiences.....something I would marvel at.

                          Yes, I am the ruiner of childhood dreams.

                          On the other hand, I've found that the people who are damaged...lacking most social graces...make great salespeople....because they lack the cultural restraints that prevent most people from asking others for money in selling.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            The other Zig story that makes my teeth grind is the one about "A bumble bee is too big and heavy to fly. But he doesn't know that...so he flies anyway" (something like that).
                            Yes, that bumblebee analogy keeps cropping up - I think I last saw it mentioned in one of Richard Branson's autobiographies - but it probably predates Zigler. In any case, it's lazy and easily discredited

                            As for the whale story - any Inuit would tell you it's soy sauce or nothing.

                            ...the people who are damaged...lacking most social graces...make great salespeople....because they lack the cultural restraints that prevent most people from asking others for money in selling.
                            Astute. Where did you read it?


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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post


                              Astute. Where did you read it?
                              OK...now I'm insulted.
                              I know you were joking, but I first noticed it when hiring and training salespeople to sell vacuum cleaners in people's homes. Some people, maybe most, wrap their identity around their culture, team (or nation), peer group.....and maintaining rapport.

                              I noticed that most new sales people were repelled by the idea that someone could tell them "No". It would be seen as an attack on their self image.

                              But some people, mostly social misfits, were accustomed to not fitting in. that was their reality. Rejection didn't bother them as much...and they suffered less from "performance anxiety".

                              It also helped that my wife's family is extremely connected to how they are accepted by others, and avoiding conflict at any cost. None of them would ever be able to sell anything, because the thought of being told "No" would devastate them. Wonderful, loving people to which "Rapport" means everything. It gave me another group to study (Yes, that's how I think).

                              Eventually, I worked it out.
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                      • Profile picture of the author wentzco
                        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                        Interesting Analogies "Fisherman .. Fishing" when comparing "MLM"

                        A very successful friend of mine relates MLM to a bucket of oysters. Our job is to shuck those oysters (prospects) looking for pearls - people who take the business seriously wanting to change their life. Sometimes those pearls appear at the top, middle or bottom of the bucket. Sometimes you have to get another bucket of oysters. It's an ongoing process but the pearls are always there. Nobody fails... they only quit. So MLMers make the decision if they want to quit or keep shucking.

                        MLM isn't a sprint where you put a couple hours or weeks of effort to expect lifelong income. It is a marathon where you take consistent steps every day finding new affiliates/reps & customers.
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                        • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                          Originally Posted by wentzco View Post

                          A very successful friend of mine relates MLM to a bucket of oysters. Our job is to shuck those oysters (prospects) looking for pearls - people who take the business seriously wanting to change their life. Sometimes those pearls appear at the top, middle or bottom of the bucket. Sometimes you have get another bucket of oysters. It's an ongoing process but the pearls are always there. Nobody fails... they only quit. So MLMers make the decision if they want to quit or keep shucking.

                          MLM isn't a sprint where you put a couple hours or weeks of effort to expect lifelong income. It is a marathon where you take consistent steps every day finding new affiliates/reps & customers.

                          I HAVE A client who has been in MLM for some 30 years. At any given time he is a member of some 5 to 10 MLM because he does not know which one will really take off.

                          Plus, he looks at himself... like a "stock broker"... he is an OPPORTUNITY BROKER... and he doesn't know what kind of opportunity you're looking for, but if he can find out, he wants to have the right MLM in his back pocket.

                          He also considers it like an IPO... some IPO's really take off. Some don't.

                          He's been in some MLM's for some 5 years before it skyrockets like crazy and he rakes in some $20,000 a month from them.

                          Just thinking.

                          Linwood
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                          • Profile picture of the author myob
                            Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                            I HAVE A client who has been in MLM for some 30 years. At any given time he is a member of some 5 to 10 MLM because he does not know which one will really take off. ...

                            ...He's been in some MLM's for some 5 years before it skyrockets like crazy and he rakes in some $20,000 a month from them.
                            Most MLM companies don't survive the first five years. But the ones that go under are perhaps the best source of seasoned MLM'ers and their experienced downlines.

                            I've been with the same MLM company for 22 years, and it's still booming like crazy. In fact, nearly all of the top 100 MLM companies are 20-30 years old or more.
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                            • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                              Originally Posted by myob View Post

                              Most MLM companies don't survive the first five years. But the ones that go under are perhaps the best source of seasoned MLM'ers and their experienced downlines.

                              I've been with the same MLM company for 22 years, and it's still booming like crazy. In fact, nearly all of the top 100 MLM companies are 20-30 years old or more.

                              If you have a moment, reach out to me, as I'd like to here about this MLM you've been with for 22 years.

                              Not saying I'll sign up with you, but I'm interested in your success, etc.

                              Linwood
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                              • Profile picture of the author myob
                                Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                                If you have a moment, reach out to me, as I'd like to here about this MLM you've been with for 22 years.

                                Not saying I'll sign up with you, but I'm interested in your success, etc.

                                Linwood
                                It should not be a shock to you, but the MLM industry has less to do with any particular company or product as much as the marketing model itself.

                                For example, all of the top legacy MLM companies have a very simple marketing plan that is easily learned, taught, and duplicated. Problems arise when distributors alter a proven system.

                                One of my early mentors is nearly cloned by the training system produced by Tom "Big Al" Schreiter. He offers great training through his weekly ezine, his books, his websites and his events.

                                Schreiter holds training events all over the world and he speaks at lots of different company conventions.

                                Another prominent trainer in the MLM industry is Eric Worre with his seminal book "Network Marketing Pro" which has been a real game changer for many in our industry.

                                I teach my downline to never promote the MLM company directly, but rather to brand their distributorships as a business entity, of which the MLM company is the wholesaler or supplier.

                                Positioning oneself as an expert in a marketing niche before exposing a product, service, or business opportunity is perhaps the most formidable competitive advantage.

                                It really does not matter what MLM company you join, as long as the products resonate with you ethically, and you can follow and duplicate the company marketing plan.

                                MLM itself is a simple and a proven system, but with some notable exceptions the negative connotations has mostly been because of short-sighted, poorly trained, or rogue distributors.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                  Positioning oneself as an expert in a marketing niche before exposing a product, service, or business opportunity is perhaps the most formidable competitive advantage.
                                  ^ This ^
                                  The Golden Nugget.
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                                  In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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                                • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                                  Originally Posted by myob View Post


                                  Positioning oneself as an expert in a marketing niche before exposing a product, service, or business opportunity is perhaps the most formidable competitive advantage.

                                  It really does not matter what MLM company you join, as long as the products resonate with you ethically, and you can follow and duplicate the company marketing plan.

                                  MLM itself is a simple and a proven system, but with some notable exceptions the negative connotations has mostly been because of short-sighted, poorly trained, or rogue distributors.


                                  Dear Myob


                                  Which is why I'm stuck on BLIND LETTERS of some length.

                                  Post cards, by and large, don't work.

                                  But blind letters, asking for interested parties to raise their hands... is the coolest model. With the BLIND LETTER you build a list, then you DRIP SYSTEM them to death... and magically the rent gets paid.



                                  Just thinking.

                                  Linwood



                                  P.S. I have recently completely a blind letter, let me know if you want to see it.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                                    Dear Myob


                                    Which is why I'm stuck on BLIND LETTERS of some length.

                                    Post cards, by and large, don't work.

                                    But blind letters, asking for interested parties to raise their hands... is the coolest model. With the BLIND LETTER you build a list, then you DRIP SYSTEM them to death... and magically the rent gets paid.



                                    Just thinking.

                                    Linwood



                                    P.S. I have recently completely a blind letter, let me know if you want to see it.
                                    I think we'd all like to see it. Thanks.
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                                    "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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                                    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      I think we'd all like to see it. Thanks.
                                      Claude... here is the letter, I just copied and pasted it it, the graphics don't show up... so... hope you can make heads or tales out of it.

                                      Let me know.

                                      Linwood





                                      [FNAME] [LNAME] "This is my story"
                                      [ADDRESS] "Let me hear from you by next Friday." [CITY], [STATE], [ZIP]



                                      Dear [FNAME],


                                      I used to have "money worries". I mean BIG WORRIES...
                                      I'm talking about ONE MILLION DOLLARS in medical debt. Let me explain...
                                      I've conquered these worries for good with a "NEW" and "PROVEN" Money-Making Secret. This is                                       my story and my invitation to you... so you too can END YOUR MONEY WORRIES FOREVER.
                                      [FNAME], first of all, my name is Ron Cady. I used to be a 9-to-5 guy. And I used to make a 6-figure income. At one point... Life was good. Then, the worst happened...
                                      My son developed liver cancer. He was only three at the time. And as you can imagine "all hell broke loose."
                                      "ONE MILLION DOLLARS IN MEDICAL DEBT"
                                      I'm talking about constant doctor visits. Evaluations. Blood tests. MRI's. Worry. Stress. And to top it all off, after only one year, the medical bills went north of ONE MILLION DOLLARS. YES...
                                      I was devastated and felt a total "loss of control."
                                      Imagine coming home one day... and someone had broken into your home and took ALL YOUR POSSESSIONS. That's how I felt. Confused. Worried. Stressed. Angry, and even... fearful. After all...
                                      Savings? Wiped out!
                                      401K? Wiped out!
                                      Money for vacations? Wiped out!
                                      So... you know that I'm telling you the truth... when I say, "I know money worries". Because I have been to "hell and back."
                                      And that's why you should pay attention when I tell you... "I know how to solve your money problems"... for good... (even if you think there are no good options left.)
                                      Before I go on... allow me to tell you, my son is now healthy. And... He is doing fine.
                                      But I need to share...                                       how I beat these "money worries" and gave myself a strong, healthy, cash- flow from home... AND YOU CAN TOO... even in today's crazy economic world. Let me explain...
                                      "First of all [FNAME],"
                                      I found your name on a list of decent, honest, people who are looking for an income opportunity that really works. That's why I'm writing you. Because...


                                      1



                                      I have discovered a system. A system that makes money for you in any economy... "best economy ever"... or "deep recession"... it works! And if you're open to a "NEW" and "PROVEN" MONEY- MAKING BREAKTHROUGH, I want to tell you all about it. Are you ready?
                                      You see, [FNAME]... not every system makes money in a good economy AND a down economy. But THIS ONE DOES. And I guarantee (whether we work together or not) you will never forget this letter. And here's why...
                                      "This MONEY-MAKING SECRET first showed up about 100 years ago"...
                                      ...way back in the early 1900's. And even then, it was kept secret and wasn't even revealed until 1927 in an obscure book that was shared among high-level executives way back then.
                                      I discovered this MONEY-MAKING SECRET from my Uncle Tim.
                                      Uncle Tim, is now pushing 88 years old...But he took me "under his wing" and taught me many powerful secrets... and over the years with him... I confess... I was like a sponge.
                                      AND... somehow, all those SECRETS stuck in my head, and guess what... after many years of FAILURE AFTER FAILURE... trying things on my own... trying every "get-rich scheme" you can imagine... all the teachings of my Uncle Tim came back to me. It finally all "made sense" in my head, and formed a complete CASH-FLOW SYSTEM that really works. And...
                                      I'm willing to let a few people in on the SECRET (I'll explain why in a moment...)
                                      You see [FNAME], there are certain "FORCES" that drive people to ACT. And these FORCES are far more powerful than just "salesmanship"... far more powerful than "peer pressure"... and almost as powerful as someone "holding a gun" to your head.
                                      These FORCES can create HUGE opportunity for anyone with the "smarts" to see the opportunity and take advantage of it.
                                      And NO, I'm not talking about anything illegal, or naughty in any way. I'm talking about TAPPING into movements, trends, and deep seated desires in every man, woman and child in America.
                                      I call this Money-Making Secret THE DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM.
                                      Why? Because it loads you up with money "coming" and "going". It "hits" you with "both barrels" and if one "system" doesn't work, the other will. Therefore, YOU WIN... and your income stream increases.
                                      And, if you're open minded, I'll share this complete system with you, and you'll see it, and get it, and it will be completely RISK FREE. However...
                                      I only want to reveal this system to 100 honest people around the country. No more than 200 max.
                                      The reason I must limit the number of people I reveal it to is this: You're going to be part of my "private inner circle" and that means you'll have access to me and my time. I'm going to be your own Personal Coach... I'll show you everything my "Uncle Tim" showed me. And I'll make sure you GET IT, and that it all "makes sense" for you (like it did for me).
                                      I'm telling you... your money worries, will be a thing of the past.
                                      I'm telling you... you'll have money to buy things you have only dreamt about (until now).
                                      I'm telling you... you'll be able to quickly pay off your debts and a wonderful peace of mind will
                                      settle in over you and life will be filled with good things from here on out.
                                      I promise you, I will never put this system (THE DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM)
                                      online to be abused and diluted by every "Tom, Dick, Harry and Jane" out there. 2



                                      I only want a core group, ready to discover the things my Uncle Tim taught me, (I'm going to teach you.)
                                      You can keep your 9-to-5 job, if you still have one. (This doesn't require tons of time.)
                                      You can see results in a few days, or a week or two... (that's how fast and sure it works.)
                                      You can hire a teenager to do the simple, daily or weekly steps.
                                      In other words, all this, is so simple a 9                                      th grader can do it. So, there is no reason to be fearful or
                                      think it's going to be "too hard."
                                      If you live in a nice home but it's not paid off... (you need to do this.)
                                      If you want to move into a nicer neighborhood and get yourself a nicer car... (you need to do
                                      this.)
                                      If you want to pay off BIG BILLS... like my "MILLION DOLLAR" medical bills for my son... (you
                                      must do this.)
                                      "The DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM"...
                                      ...allows you to make money when things are GREAT as well as when things are TIGHT (like a Recession or Depression).
                                      Listen, this has nothing to do with some useless "MLM" or crazy 'GET-RICH QUICK" scheme. It has nothing to do with risky investments in real estate, the stock market, or CBD products. Plus, it has nothing to do with UNTESTED, UNPROVEN ideas that demand HUGE amounts of cash UPFRONT... hoping you'll make it back overnight. NO. None of that nonsense.
                                      "First discovered and implemented in the early 1900's and finally revealed in
                                      a limited way in 1927, you might say this MONEY-MAKING SYSTEM has been
                                      TESTED AND PROVEN to work again, and again, over and over, for 110 years."
                                      And I'm a testament to that fact. (As are my students.)
                                      Thank God for my Uncle Tim. Yes, I was a 9-to-5 guy. Yes, I was making 6 figures a year, but I hated the whole experience. I was selling the hours of my life for peanuts. AND... GET THIS... it was LIMITING in other ways too. Especially limiting on my TIME.
                                      You can't have a 9-to-5 and create your own life. You're on the hook in more ways than you might think.
                                      Now... I've walked away from that 9-to-5 B.S. and I'm just watering and tending a "MONEY TREE" that only requires a little of my time and attention. It's a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.
                                      The reason I'm writing you, is to invite you to become a real, live, member of my "DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW" CLUB. And it's a decision away.
                                      All you have to do is "raise your hand" and let me know you'd like THE INFO.
                                      Just clip the CASH-FLOW COUPON below, include $5 (or one book of "FOREVER STAMPS"). I'll mail you EVERYTHING you'll need to bring you QUICKLY and EFFORTLESSLY up to speed. Then... you can begin seeing your financial life turn from struggle after struggle, to one of DECENT, TOP- HEAVY CASH-FLOW, with very little effort on your part.
                                      Are you willing to DISCOVER this SECRET? I hope so, because...
                                      Remember, I was backed into a corner. With a million dollars in medical bills I had to do something different. I was worried, stressed, full of fear and felt a total 'LOSS OF CONTROL". And I know you can relate...
                                      Well, no more. Today I can honestly say the future looks bright. And I wake up each day looking forward to doing anything I want to do. My life is my own again.


                                      3



                                      And my kids love having a Dad around who's not worried and pushed to the limits. Please...


                                      "Will you allow me to share THE SECRET that changed my life forever." Stop what you're doing and let me hear from you... TODAY!
                                      I promise this is no trick and you'll be under no obligation to do anything you don't want to do. And just to make sure you're completely satisfied with THE INFORMATION I send you, I'll even
                                      hold your $5 bucks (or your book of stamps) for 30 days, to make sure you and I are "a fit". Obviously, I'm not going to get "rich" off your $5 bucks. But I require that small amount to
                                      make sure you're not just a "tire-kicker" and you really do want to discover everything my Uncle Tim shared with me over the years. And everything I've done over the years to FAST TRACK my goal of making $5,000 to $10,000 a month (without the headache and hassle of a 9-to-5 job).
                                      (BTW: Far too much time is spent driving to and from work, and you don't get "paid" for all that do you?)
                                      In case you haven't noticed, I'm talking about YOU giving yourself a PASSIVE INCOME that requires little to no maintenance on your part. When you see what I'm talking about, you're going to "kick yourself", for not seeing this sooner! It's all so simple. Yet so powerful!
                                      BEFORE WE GO ON, ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE SOME FACTS THAT SCARE ME, AND SHOULD SCARE YOU.
                                      FACT: Some 30 million people or more have now been "laid off" due to the "lockdown". (And it scares everyone.)
                                      FACT: Millions of small business owners have been pushed to the edge due to the "lockdown" and are not going to reopen. (And it scares everyone.)
                                      FACT: Mass confusion and fear has been hyped up on the nightly news due to the "lockdown". (And it scares everyone.)
                                      HERE'S WHAT I PROPOSE TO YOU:
                                      1. Turn off the nightly news. They are in business to sell advertising. And if they can keep you
                                        GLUED TO THE TV SCREEN, they can sell more ads... and that's why every night is a
                                        HORROR SHOW about "Hobgoblins" coming around every corner!
                                      2. Clip the coupon below, and send it to me with your REFUNDABLE INVESTMENT. I'll do the
                                        rest by RUSHING your package out, and we'll begin our lifelong journey together... making
                                        money and doing things others only dream about.
                                      3. Get ready to make some simple, but powerful changes... so simple that others will NOT SEE
                                        what's going on... while you WIN (and prosper quietly).
                                      4. AGAIN, I'm not going to leave you hanging in the wind. I honestly have enjoyed some
                                        powerful successes with this system and it's time for me to share them with a larger, but
                                        exclusive audience. And when you WIN I'll also WIN. That's the way this works.
                                      5. Don't delay. Once I reach my targeted goal of 100 to 200 folks in my personal "DOUBLE
                                        BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM", I'm going to cut off any new inquiries. I don't have the time to mentor or reveal the SECRET to more... and besides, I have the CASH-FLOW I need anyway... I'm not aiming to be the next WORLD WIDE FAMOUS GURU. No. I'm just a normal guy who discovered an "Abnormal" Money-Making Secret.
                                      6. Finally, I ask you make one promise to me: That you'll share this information with a select few in your life too. (Just enough to make sure my Uncle Tim's vision never goes away.)


                                      4



                                      Again, there are a lot of people who are hurting right now. You don't have to be one of them. You can join me in this simple, solution and discover a MONEY SECRET most people miss. It's a "double-barrel" cash-flow system that takes advantage of powerful, "unseen" forces to stuff your bank account with money, day after day, week after week, month after month.
                                      Keep in mind, as we go along, you're not only going to pay off your debt and be able to buy things you didn't dare dream about... but you're going to get the respect and admiration from family and friends... who will look to you for answers. And honestly, you'll be able to tell them, IF... they are willing to hear it.
                                      Most won't. But no matter what. You'll be in control of your life and your finances from here on out.
                                      AND NOTE: The "DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM", is not about ONE cash-flow program it's about multiple streams that require almost nothing of you. You'll see...
                                      Now it's up to you [FNAME]. Take the time RIGHT NOW to send the NO RISK, NO OBLIGATION, REQUEST FORM today. Use the enclosed courtesy envelope. And I'll take care of the rest.
                                      Sincerely,
                                      Ron Cady.
                                      24hr Recorded Message: 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX
                                      ONE MORE THING [FNAME]. I ALMOST FORGOT. No matter what kind of "Money Worries" you have now, you're going to discover just how easy it is to turn things around. I'm going to help you and you're going to look back on the day you got this letter as perhaps the best day of your life. That's how powerful the CASH-FLOW SECRET really is.
                                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -CLIP AND MAIL THIS TO ME TODAY - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - --
                                      DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM
                                      þYES! Ron... Send me the DOUBLE BARREL CASH-FLOW SYSTEM info pack.
                                      ... Enclosed is my one-time donation of $5 (or one book of postage stamps) to cover printing, shipping and processing.
                                      I understand that there is NO RISK or Obligation to do anything more.
                                      And that, if I'm not thrilled with this powerful system, you'll return my one-time donation of $5. (Payable to Ron Cady) I also understand that I must reply within 5-days of receiving this invitation to be eligible to be a part of your 100-Person Team                                      . Please rush my info pack to:
                                      [FNAME] [LNAME] [ADDRESS]
                                      [CITY], [STATE], [ZIP]
                                      NOTE: For 24hr service, add one dollar (total $6) cash or money order.
                                      This will let me know you want "next day" service. Otherwise, I only process requests twice a week. Thank you, in advance [FNAME] for giving me the opportunity to serve you.


                                      5



                                      [COLOR=rgb(34.509800%, 47.058820%, 24.705880%)]PROOF [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(34.509800%, 47.058820%, 24.705880%)]FROM MY ACCOUNT [/COLOR]


                                      [COLOR=rgb(67.058830%, 34.901960%, 28.627450%)]FROM MY ACCOUNT [/COLOR]


                                      6
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                                        Claude... here is the letter, I just copied and pasted it it, the graphics don't show up... so... hope you can make heads or tales out of it.

                                        Let me know.

                                        Linwood
                                        Wait just a minute here....am I detecting a skill in copywriting?

                                        It's amazing how every paragraph screams out another principle in writing blind copy.....

                                        Thank you very much for sharing this.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author animal44
                                    Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                                    But blind letters, asking for interested parties to raise their hands... is the coolest model.
                                    But only if your prospects read braille...
                                    Signature

                                    People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
                                    What I do for a living

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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      Positioning oneself as an expert in a marketing niche before exposing a product, service, or business opportunity is perhaps the most formidable competitive advantage.

                      It really does not matter what MLM company you join, as long as the products resonate with you ethically, and you can follow and duplicate the company marketing plan.

                      MLM itself is a simple and a proven system, but with some notable exceptions the negative connotations has mostly been because of short-sighted, poorly trained, or rogue distributors.


                      Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

                      Dear Myob


                      Which is why I'm stuck on BLIND LETTERS of some length.

                      Post cards, by and large, don't work.

                      But blind letters, asking for interested parties to raise their hands... is the coolest model. With the BLIND LETTER you build a list, then you DRIP SYSTEM them to death... and magically the rent gets paid.



                      Just thinking.

                      Linwood



                      P.S. I have recently completely a blind letter, let me know if you want to see it.
                      That blind letter certainly brings back memories - from the 1970's.

                      Seriously, I know people who do very well sending such blind letters to bizop leads. But copywriting at this level has one fatal flaw in MLM. You can't teach this stuff. It's not duplicatable, which is one of the most fundamental components for growing and sustaining a large MLM business.

                      What I have been taught, and teach my team, is training a downline begins at the moment of first contact. How you recruit a prospect is how that person will recruit other prospects. Success is inversely related to the length of time it takes to learn.

                      When done right, MLM is a simple monkey see, monkey do system. I used to say that even a monkey could do it, but PETA went apeshit over that. (j/k)

                      Actually I do have a particular postcard (4 x 9 folded in half) which I have been mailing with just a few minor changes to qualified MLM prospects for nearly 20 years.

                      I mail these to my lists of buyers of affiliate products (Amazon, Clickbank, CJ, etc.) This qualifies them in that they have money to spend, and my affiliate commissions finance the MLM marketing costs. In addition, it is highly duplicatable.

                      POSTCARD:
                      [FRONT]
                      Don't Be Stupid
                      Read This
                      Sorry About The Headline - I Need Your Attention
                      There's A Home Based Business
                      That's Sweeping The Internet Right Now.
                      Average People Are Making Thousands Weekly.
                      The Tax Laws Are More Favorable for Home Businesses
                      Now More Than Ever Before.
                      Be Smart And Listen To My 24 Hour Recorded Message:
                      (800) 555-1212

                      [INSIDE]
                      YOU can make a big difference

                      I'm excited for you because this message can absolutely change your life. We are working in every major city in the US right now.

                      If you're anything like me and you wondered if there's a legitimate home-based business that could put you back in command of your life, your future, your finances, and your freedom, then what I am about to show you may be exactly what you're looking for.

                      I am identifying self-starters who are self motivated, are coachable, and most importantly people who believe they deserve more out of life.

                      By following our proven marketing and training system, you can be earning money immediately, WITHOUT wearing out your friends and family.

                      Also, the income tax savings alone from a part-time home-based business is now more favorable than ever before.

                      If that sounds like you, I will take you through a very relaxed process so that you can make an intelligent decision about changing your present situation.

                      What I will NOT do is convince or sell to you. After watching this short 4 1/2 minute video,

                      [website/video]

                      Call my number on the website any time. Leave a message and I will return your call ASAP if I am not available.

                      Be great,
                      [distributor name]

                      [BACK]
                      Are You Rich Yet? Didn't Think So...
                      Stop Looking For Get Rich Secrets, There Are None!
                      You Have Finally Found Your Answer To Financial Independence.
                      Discover how this 38 year old single mother of three went from broke to $47,642 Per month just doing what I'm about to show you.
                      Spend 4 1/2 Minutes At My Website And Be Shocked!
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                      • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                        MYOB... YOU'RE A GOD.

                        THANKS FOR THIS POST.



                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        That blind letter certainly brings back memories - from the 1970's.

                        Seriously, I know people who do very well sending such blind letters to bizop leads. But copywriting at this level has one fatal flaw in MLM. You can't teach this stuff. It's not duplicatable, which is one of the most fundamental components for growing and sustaining a large MLM business.

                        What I have been taught, and teach my team, is training a downline begins at the moment of first contact. How you recruit a prospect is how that person will recruit other prospects. Success is inversely related to the length of time it takes to learn.

                        When done right, MLM is a simple monkey see, monkey do system. I used to say that even a monkey could do it, but PETA went apeshit over that. (j/k)

                        Actually I do have a particular postcard (4 x 9 folded in half) which I have been mailing with just a few minor changes to qualified MLM prospects for nearly 20 years.

                        I mail these to my lists of buyers of affiliate products (Amazon, Clickbank, CJ, etc.) This qualifies them in that they have money to spend, and my affiliate commissions finance the MLM marketing costs. In addition, it is highly duplicatable.

                        POSTCARD:
                        [FRONT]
                        Don't Be Stupid
                        Read This
                        Sorry About The Headline - I Need Your Attention
                        There's A Home Based Business
                        That's Sweeping The Internet Right Now.
                        Average People Are Making Thousands Weekly.
                        The Tax Laws Are More Favorable for Home Businesses
                        Now More Than Ever Before.
                        Be Smart And Listen To My 24 Hour Recorded Message:
                        (800) 555-1212

                        [INSIDE]
                        YOU can make a big difference

                        I'm excited for you because this message can absolutely change your life. We are working in every major city in the US right now.

                        If you're anything like me and you wondered if there's a legitimate home-based business that could put you back in command of your life, your future, your finances, and your freedom, then what I am about to show you may be exactly what you're looking for.

                        I am identifying self-starters who are self motivated, are coachable, and most importantly people who believe they deserve more out of life.

                        By following our proven marketing and training system, you can be earning money immediately, WITHOUT wearing out your friends and family.

                        Also, the income tax savings alone from a part-time home-based business is now more favorable than ever before.

                        If that sounds like you, I will take you through a very relaxed process so that you can make an intelligent decision about changing your present situation.

                        What I will NOT do is convince or sell to you. After watching this short 4 1/2 minute video,

                        [website/video]

                        Call my number on the website any time. Leave a message and I will return your call ASAP if I am not available.

                        Be great,
                        [distributor name]

                        [BACK]
                        Are You Rich Yet? Didn't Think So...
                        Stop Looking For Get Rich Secrets, There Are None!
                        You Have Finally Found Your Answer To Financial Independence.
                        Discover how this 38 year old single mother of three went from broke to $47,642 Per month just doing what I'm about to show you.
                        Spend 4 1/2 Minutes At My Website And Be Shocked!
                        [website]
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post


                        I mail these to my lists of buyers of affiliate products (Amazon, Clickbank, CJ, etc.) This qualifies them in that they have money to spend, and my affiliate commissions finance the MLM marketing costs. In addition, it is highly duplicatable.
                        Just a note to tell you that I am in AWE of your postcard. I have postcard envy.
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                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          Just a note to tell you that I am in AWE of your postcard. I have postcard envy.
                          I didn't write it. It's actually 30 years old or more and came from an early MLM mentor of mine.
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                          • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                            I didn't write it. It's actually 30 years old or more and came from an early MLM mentor of mine.

                            I found this ad I use to run in DMNews.

                            Let's see if it snags.

                            file:///Users/newuser/Downloads/I%20guarantee%20legalSize.pdf

                            [IMG]file:///Users/newuser/Downloads/I%20guarantee%20legalSize.pdf[/IMG]
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      That ad is most likely a powerful one. And yes, I do a lot of direct mailing myself, although it (and all advertising) are actually a relatively small part of my overall marketing. Is this why Gary Halbert hated MLMers so much? We already have some of the best copywriting of perhaps any industry, and reinventing the wheel is highly over-rated.
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread (post #36), my mentor said that all of his promotions were just part of the marketing game. "You're an actor", he would say; "You're on a stage and need to dress the part and know your lines. There has never been a great movie made without meticulously rehearsed scripts."

                      He would always dress flashy and drive up to events in a Lamborghini (yes those cars were available even way back then). Once he asked me if I played golf. I responded that I really have no patience for chasing balls around and knocking them into holes in the ground. He insisted, "You've got to learn to play the game."

                      Many of his best distributors, referrals, and leads were found while playing on the golf course. He would often take me to golf courses in his Lamborghini, and every time at least one person would come up to him and ask "What do you do?" The response was always a well-rehearsed 30-second intro script with highly polished voice intonation and voice inflection.

                      Then, after a well-timed pause with a question, "How about you? The prospect talked about his/her business briefly, and if there is a commonality or benefit that may be filled by our company products or opportunity, contact information was exchanged for followup. The actual company name was never mentioned until deep into the funnel system.

                      This same scenario was played out over many other scenarios such as seminars, chambers of commerce luncheons, fundraisers, and even at trade shows and fairs. Getting attention and generating interest through scripted and highly choreographed activities are the primordial steps in marketing, especially in this game of MLM.

                      All the tools are already provided by most MLM companies. Some assembly is required.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread (post #36), my mentor said that all of his promotions were just part of the marketing game. "You're an actor", he would say; "You're on a stage and need to dress the part and know your lines. There has never been a great movie made without meticulously rehearsed scripts."

                        He would always dress flashy and drive up to events in a Lamborghini (yes those cars were available even way back then). Once he asked me if I played golf. I responded that I really have no patience for chasing balls around and knocking them into holes in the ground. He insisted, "You've got to learn to play the game."

                        Many of his best distributors, referrals, and leads were found while playing on the golf course. He would often take me to golf courses in his Lamborghini, and every time at least one person would come up to him and ask "What do you do?" The response was always a well-rehearsed 30-second intro script with highly polished voice intonation and voice inflection.

                        Then, after a well-timed pause with a question, "How about you? The prospect talked about his/her business briefly, and if there is a commonality or benefit that may be filled by our company products or opportunity, contact information was exchanged for followup. The actual company name was never mentioned until deep into the funnel system.

                        This same scenario was played out over many other scenarios such as seminars, chambers of commerce luncheons, fundraisers, and even at trade shows and fairs. Getting attention and generating interest through scripted and highly choreographed activities are the primordial steps in marketing, especially in this game of MLM.

                        All the tools are already provided by most MLM companies. Some assembly is required.
                        Would you please stop using BIG words.
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                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

                          Would you please stop using BIG words.
                          Ain't much diference in MLM and huntin' fer possum in the hollar. Ya gots to know what a possum looks like, or might be shootn at a 'coon, or a skunk. Get the dogs trained and hooped up fer chasin', gather 'round neighbors, and bring along gunny sacks. After a ketch, best to round up the dogs and go lookin for anuther possum cuz they sull together. Next, whadudo when you get them home. Tha's when granpa has to lern you how to fix them up fer supper and make hats fer selling at the tradin' post. Keep lookin' fer more hollars which possums live and set you up lotsa tradin' posts. Lern all yer possum chasers how to fix up possums and then lern them how to built their own tradin' posts. My great-great-great granpa give me this here sign he seen somewheres to put up fer advertisin on the side of the barn. It's slickety wordin gits lotsa lookers:

                          "Give me your tired, your poor,
                          Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
                          The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
                          Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me."

                          My cuzin Mary Beth has that sign on the side of her truck, so whener she goes uptown or yonder hollars she always comes back home loaded with men folk a whistln and a hollerin just like dogs at a possum up a tree. Some of 'em do take to possum hunting, some don't, so what. Next. That's what granpa always sed.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                            Ain't much diference in MLM and huntin' fer possum in the hollar. Ya gots to know what a possum looks like, or might be shootn at a 'coon or skunk. Get the dogs trained and hooped up fer chasin', gather 'round neighbors, and bring along gunny sacks. After a ketch, best to round up the dogs and go lookin for anuther cuz they sull together. Next, whadudo when you get them home. Tha's when granpa has to lern you how to fix them up fer supper and make hats fer selling at the tradin' post. Keep lookin' fer more hollars which possums live and set you up lotsa tradin' posts. Lern all yer possum chasers how to fix up possums and then lern them how to built their own tradin' posts. My great-great-great granpa give me this here sign he seen somewheres to put up fer advertisin on the side of the barn. It's slickety wordin gits lotsa lookers:

                            "Give me your tired, your poor,
                            Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
                            The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
                            Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me."

                            My cuzin Mary Beth has that sign on the side of her truck, so whener she goes uptown or yonder hollars she always comes back home loaded with men folk a whistln and a hollerin just like dogs at a possum up a tree. Some of 'em do take to possum hunting, some don't, so what. Next. That's what granpa always sed.
                            ^ This ^
                            The best explanation of MLM on the internet thingy.
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                      • Profile picture of the author animal44
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread (post #36), my mentor said that all of his promotions were just part of the marketing game. "You're an actor", he would say; "You're on a stage and need to dress the part and know your lines. There has never been a great movie made without meticulously rehearsed scripts."
                        Except that's not true...

                        1. There's plenty of "meticulously rehearsed scripts" that were never any where near "great".

                        2. Some of the greatest scenes were ad-libbed and some of the greatest actors famous for ad-libbing.

                        Marlon Brando was famous for not learning his lines and mumbling his way through scenes.

                        Who could forget James Dean and Raymond Massey in East of Eden...

                        A bit more contemporary, The Blair Witch Project - intentionally improvised - cost pennies to make and made gazillions at the box office and many consider it to be the finest horror movie of it's time.

                        Learning to act is hard work and most fail at it. Being yourself is far easier, however some people seemingly fail at that!
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Except that's not true...

                          1. There's plenty of "meticulously rehearsed scripts" that were never any where near "great".
                          That is true. It is possible to perfectly memorize a script that is sub-standard.(added later) And I've seen scripts that were so bad that they were worse than winging it. And memorizing a terrible script will just guarantee you terrible results.


                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          2. Some of the greatest scenes were ad-libbed and some of the greatest actors famous for ad-libbing.
                          That's because these rare actors were better than the script. These actors are very rare, and the instances where an actor goes off script and it's better than the script (meaning it gets in the movie) are rare. Usually, when an actor goes completely off script, it's a mistake.


                          For example, out of the thousands of stand up comedians that we have seen, all had a perfectly rehearsed act, before they went on stage, with perhaps 2 or 3 exceptions....comedians so gifted that they didn't need to prepare at all. But these are exceptions, not the average.

                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Marlon Brando was famous for not learning his lines and mumbling his way through scenes.

                          Who could forget James Dean and Raymond Massey in East of Eden...

                          A bit more contemporary, The Blair Witch Project - intentionally improvised - cost pennies to make and made gazillions at the box office and many consider it to be the finest horror movie of it's time.
                          Brando as a genius and a gifted actor. Most actors are not geniuses...and most sales people are not geniuses. If the script is better than what you would say if you just said it off the cuff. Using the script is better. If you are smarter, and more gifted than what's on the page in front of you...then you should be impromptu.

                          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                          Learning to act is hard work and most fail at it. Being yourself is far easier, however some people seemingly fail at that!
                          I agree with you. Creating a persona is a mask. And wearing a mask is exhausting. And eventually, everyone breaks character.

                          But you can be yourself with a script. Change the language to suit you.

                          And a great proven script isn't for the few at the top who already have a deep knowledge of how to sell. It's for the newbie who has no idea how to proceed. A proven script is a way to protect the rep from themselves.

                          If you don't know what to say, or know the answers to questions....a proven script is a great way to be prepared. At least it's a starting point.

                          I used to study scripts, and ad copy, and sales letters....to uncover the psychology behind how they worked...not to blindly mimic what was said. But if someone doesn't have the ability to see underneath the words...the words still help.

                          Anyway, I hope this helps someone.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            <sniped to save a tree>

                            Anyway, I hope this helps someone.
                            I believe it will help everyone.
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                          • Profile picture of the author animal44
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            But you can be yourself with a script. Change the language to suit you.
                            Previously you have advised people to "stick with the script", not even varying by a vowel...
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

                              Previously you have advised people to "stick with the script", not even varying by a vowel...
                              I'm going to address that, because there are people here that are taking this seriously.

                              In the beginning of a sales career. You know nothing. Everything you think and say is wrong.

                              In the beginning, it's always better to follow a script, if you have access to a proven productive script.

                              In the beginning, you have no idea whether a change in script is an improvement or a mistake. And in my experience, it's nearly always a mistake.

                              Like being an actor. If you are just starting out...follow the script.

                              Eventually, you start to know why you are saying what you are saying. You start to identify (if you are intelligent) the principles involved...what you are accomplishing with the script.

                              Once you understand why each part of the script works, you can change it as much as you like......and if your results worsen, you go back to the script. If they improve, you keep what you changed.

                              And......not all sales require a script. Some sales are complex enough that a comprehensive script would just get in the way. Scripts are more useful if you are selling one offer, over and over again.

                              But we all use scripts. Every time you say something you have said before, it's a script.

                              Have you ever told a joke, shared a story? If you tell it the same way twice, you have a script.

                              A sales letter is a script. The difference between a sales letter written by a great copywriter, and one written off the cuff by a newbie...is vast. And the difference in results is vast.
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      As Claude so eloquently reasoned everyone uses scripts. Words are powerful.

                      We all have internal scripts which really do affect outward expressions, behavior, and habits. For most people, these internal scripts hold us back from living at full potential. Changing your internal scripts can literally change your life. Internalization of motivational scripts is at the very heart of personal development.

                      Wars, revolutions, riots, civil unrest, and peace all begin and end with words. There are examples all around us of the power of words to incite and to soothe intensely as well as purposeful manipulation of mass opinions, such as propaganda.

                      Underestimating the power of words by salespeople and marketers is a major cause of failure. What you say and how you say it has dramatic impact on results. An early mentor gave me this example:

                      "Looking at your face makes time stand still."
                      or,
                      "You've got a face that could stop a clock."

                      Both phrases say basically the same thing, but the results are much different.

                      Sales is the art of connecting with or temporarily disrupting the internal dialog which prospects are already having inside their heads. Conversion rates are measurable indicators of how your script resonates with this internal dialogue.

                      Make no mistake about this. Successful salespeople have mastered memorizing scripts, intonation, and inflection so effectively that it appears effortless and natural. With rare exceptions, salespeople and actors never just "wing it".

                      Similarly, copywriters and other "wordsmiths" understand the power of words and nuances of grammar, context, semantics, jargon, cadence, etc. Scripts which touch on each of these essential elements and "strum heartstrings" have incalculable value.

                      I have a "Vault" of marketing scripts which I've collected over 20 years from my MLM trainers, conventions, "swipe" files from other marketers, etc. It's nearly a terabyte of ads, copy, speeches, books, videos, etc. Easily worth millions of dollars.

                      Perhaps a real classic of scripts in action is with Bob Hope's (the great entertainer) own vault of well over 500,000 jokes kept in row upon row of filing cabinets inside a secure fire-proof enclosure in his home. He is said to have over 100 writers for his "impromptu" routines. Nothing was ever "off the cuff".

                      "I've always been in the right place and time. Of course, I steered myself there."
                      - Bob Hope
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Thing 'bout the Eagyewel myth is ...

    Most nowan don't wanna be HOVERIN' OVAH nuthin' like 24/7 110%.

    As a consoomer, yeah prolly I gotta be choosy 'bout stuff -- but it don't mean I gotta be chasin' around with my frickin' eyeballs out on stalks like no HORRAH MOVIE.

    bcs who wants that when you wanna sleep, huh?

    "How weird. According to the instructions, my eyeballs were now supposed to be set at SLUMBER rather than SUBLIMINALLY ENGAGED DRIFT -- yet I don't see HOW THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED ... nor even WHY!!!"

    So, anyways, I jus' ordered sum noo boots I fancy.

    Cos like I ain't been out too much.

    This choice any diffrent from what I mighta made 10 months back?

    Well, hey -- let's see!

    * Evocatively stylish, heel to toe steps kissin' out!
    * Ain't fashwaahned from no skinned panda or shit.
    * Potential weapon when gripped by the toe end an' aimed by the heel end at ANYWAN STOOPID,
    * Comes shipped with Aqualung Coupons, plus shares in a bunker in Illinois sunk 1500' below the ground.

    Thing is, Christmas 2020 is now less far ahead than its 2019 incumbent is ... uhm ... kinda toast.

    So I would wanna wish badwill on all men marketin' any kinda catapult solootions ain't too sweet for kittens.

    Like ... boulders hurled upon.

    or

    Actschwl kittens fired from.

    or

    Nuthin' to do with kittens beyond they gotta make the catapults an' fire 'em off at stuff OR THEY DIE.
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  • Profile picture of the author BernardR
    Hi AdmanMrWoo

    I am a proud network marketer and am doing well from 3 year old business. In fact I have managed to do in 3 years what it takes most people 10 - 12 years to do.

    Your post shows you are seasoned and mature in what you do and I think you make some great observations about the lower end of the MLM market.

    In the same way some online marketers get fixated on pushing people to click the link, I think that any MLM person who is pushy and desperate is unprofessional.

    The real issue I have found with MLM (which actually applies to internet marketing also) is that ANYONE can have a go!

    THIS CAN BE DISTASTEROUS

    For example, I remember attending a free business networking event, and 3 different individuals from my company were there. None of them knew me so I remained anonymous. Long story short I was horrified as all 3 of them stood up and did their 60 second pitches to the room VERY badly. If any of these clowns had of been in my team, they would have got a serious talking too.

    An issue is that people build their business by churning through team members and doing the whole numbers thing. Whereas if you take time to recruit and develop your people, you find that more of them stick and stay because they actually see some success.

    I run a launch plan which aims to make my noobs £2000 in there first 30 days. It requires a lot of mentoring on my part but makes a huge difference. I acutally just helped someone smash £2k and make just under £3k.

    My new team members get some early success and actually make some money up front. They also get a great insight into the company I work with and are fully in a position to make a decision about wether they want to continue on or not. Either way I do not mind, as I only want focussed serious people.

    So network marketing is a great business model, but as with online marketing you need to be professional, coachable.

    My top tip for both business models is to learn to attract people and not chase i.e. be the hunted and not the hunter.

    This is called attraction marketing. Lots of people are familiar with the concept but do not truly put it into play.

    BERNARD
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    • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
      THANKS FOR THE COMPLIMENT.


      Originally Posted by BernardR View Post

      Hi AdmanMrWoo

      I am a proud network marketer and am doing well from 3 year old business. In fact I have managed to do in 3 years what it takes most people 10 - 12 years to do.

      Your post shows you are seasoned and mature in what you do and I think you make some great observations about the lower end of the MLM market.

      In the same way some online marketers get fixated on pushing people to click the link, I think that any MLM person who is pushy and desperate is unprofessional.

      The real issue I have found with MLM (which actually applies to internet marketing also) is that ANYONE can have a go!

      THIS CAN BE DISTASTEROUS

      For example, I remember attending a free business networking event, and 3 different individuals from my company were there. None of them knew me so I remained anonymous. Long story short I was horrified as all 3 of them stood up and did their 60 second pitches to the room VERY badly. If any of these clowns had of been in my team, they would have got a serious talking too.

      An issue is that people build their business by churning through team members and doing the whole numbers thing. Whereas if you take time to recruit and develop your people, you find that more of them stick and stay because they actually see some success.

      I run a launch plan which aims to make my noobs £2000 in there first 30 days. It requires a lot of mentoring on my part but makes a huge difference. I acutally just helped someone smash £2k and make just under £3k.

      My new team members get some early success and actually make some money up front. They also get a great insight into the company I work with and are fully in a position to make a decision about wether they want to continue on or not. Either way I do not mind, as I only want focussed serious people.

      So network marketing is a great business model, but as with online marketing you need to be professional, coachable.

      My top tip for both business models is to learn to attract people and not chase i.e. be the hunted and not the hunter.

      This is called attraction marketing. Lots of people are familiar with the concept but do not truly put it into play.

      BERNARD
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  • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
    I think Barrie Bedell has passed.

    He was some 85 years old. And I've called him to chat, once every few months.

    But his phone is now dead.

    I'll miss him.

    He was a "chip off the ole block" in that he was a good copy of his dad, Clyde Bedell.

    Unlike many of the hot shot guru's of our day, Barrie was like the copywriting teacher for blue collar folks. His dad's book HOW TO CONVERT WHITE SPACE INTO ADVERTISING THAT SELLS helped me a lot while I was a young ad copywriter.

    God Bless Barrie Bedell.

    And his dad.

    yours...
    linwood
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    Network marketing is just like any other business. You get what you put in. The truth is if you are not selling you are buying. How you determine if a Network Marketing Business is a legitimate company is that they offer a quality service or premium product that enriches people's lives, not recruiting people. Selling premium services and premium products should be the main agenda along with Free Training. With $15,000 I could find a million better advertisement opportunities than giving it to some guy for a "magical script". Realize there is no magic bullet. Just hardwork. Winners never quit and Quilters never win.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by DURABLEOILCOM View Post

      With $15,000 I could find a million better advertisement opportunities than giving it to some guy for a "magical script".
      There really are "magical scripts", or proven structured systems that work. Well-chosen words can have a powerful impact in advertising.

      Your company has spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars on copywriters, tech reports, spec sheets, catalogs, media producers, PR, and other marketing tools over the last 40 years.

      Every word is scrutinized for maximum impact.

      Yet, many distributors seem to ignore these resources and blab the same nonsense and impotent platitudes they obviously picked up from other poorly trained distributors.

      "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
      - Mark Twain
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Yet, many distributors seem to ignore these resources and blab the same nonsense and impotent platitudes they obviously picked up from other poorly trained distributors.
        Yup. I'm amazed when I see distributors in MLM (or salespeople selling anything) who ignore all the great marketing materials that have been provided by the company.

        Although there are some bad materials produced by companies, they are often professionally written, and provide a real sense of security to the prospect. They also show that the company is a real company with real marketing know how...an authority to be trusted.

        The best companies generally have the best support materials. And yet, many reps dismiss these aids as though they know more their first day.

        A structured presentation (at least parts of it) backed by well crafted materials/samples/demonstration materials will sell more than the new guy's confidence and his belief in his own "Gift of gab".

        The materials can do much of the heavy lifting. And they keep the rep from digging his own grave when talking with prospects. And company materials are a tool that can save the rep from themselves

        I've been selling/sales managing/sales training for over 40 years. And hard work can overcome a multitude of mistakes. But why make them in the first place?

        A structured...well crafted presentation (in all its parts) can be the difference between selling 15% of the people you present to and 80% of the people you present to.


        I had a friend that owned a mattress store that was struggling. I was in a store room and saw several samples of mattress "cutaways" that showed how the mattresses were made. I asked him if he used them. He said "Never. None of that matters. The customers just want the cheapest price".

        In that moment I knew why he was starving. He only attracted the price shopper, and never the quality shopper. And he never showed the differences between a cheap mattress and a quality mattress. And so people just bought the lowest priced mattresses, or they left the store. He had all the tools...meaning evidence.. he needed given to him by the mattress manufacturers, and he never used them.

        Oh well.
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        "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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        • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Yup. I'm amazed when I see distributors in MLM (or salespeople selling anything) who ignore all the great marketing materials that have been provided by the company....

          I had a friend that owned a mattress store that was struggling. I was in a store room and saw several samples of mattress "cutaways" that showed how the mattresses were made. I asked him if he used them. He said "Never. None of that matters. The customers just want the cheapest price".

          In that moment I knew why he was starving. He only attracted the price shopper, and never the quality shopper. And he never showed the differences between a cheap mattress and a quality mattress. And so people just bought the lowest priced mattresses, or they left the store. He had all the tools...meaning evidence.. he needed given to him by the mattress manufacturers, and he never used them.

          Oh well.

          Dear Claude...
          I learned my craft of ad writing from Clyde Bedell. Among other things, Bedell did a hellava bang up job for furniture stores across the country in the 1960's through the 1980's.



          For one thing... he created a book for Furniture stores called TOTAL SELLING SERVICE. It explained the principles of selling and it also was divided into several sections for their ad campaigns. One section was bunches of HEADLINES. And if you choose headline #358... you could turn to the next section which contain body copy related to #358. And then, you'd turn to the next section which contained ACTION CLOSES for the idea about #358.

          It was like idiot proof advertising... good ads resulted.

          You could buy the book at that time for about $300 bucks.

          And man o' man... the furniture stores that made use of Bedell's copy blocks kicked ass and sold tons of furniture.

          He had a similar book for carpets too.

          I borrowed ideas from those books for years and years to write copy for everything from health products to financial advice.

          They are like my secret stash of GREAT MARKETING IDEAS AND GREAT COPY POINTS.

          The guys who post here on warrior forum who poo-poo paying $15,000 for ad copy or "sales scripts" as they say... are not serious players with a big business to run.

          I'm kinda retired these days, so I often get roped into writing copy for marketers for about $1,000 for a letter or web sales page or emails, etc.

          But I used to get big bucks from serious marketers who would mail out millions of my letters.

          These guys who poo-poo the idea of paying for talent, are unaware of the power of the right message to the right audience.

          I've created advertising for some outfits that got way more response than their former ads got, and they couldn't believe it.

          Regarding the carpet book by Bedell... he had an example in there of a carpet ad that got NO RESPONSE... and when they jazzed it up with a few more paragraphs of "Bedell style copy"... the ad looked the same, only it was 3 paragraphs longer... the ad sold something like 15 (or maybe it was 30) home owners on installing new carpet. Again, the similar ad, just 3 paragraphs smaller, brought in NO RESPONSE.

          That, is a hellava thing... if you ask me.

          It's not the $15,000 price tag that should worry these young bucks here... it's really YOUR TOTAL SELLING COSTS.

          It cost time and money to run an ad that brings you NO RESPONSE.



          But even still... a number of my clients years ago, would LOSE MONEY to make a sale, and strategically make up for the loses on the back end.



          One client, had about 10 million customer names on file... most of them he acquired at a loss... but he sold and sold and sold to them after he got the name, and did about $11 million a year in business.



          MLMers need to know, that getting a prospect, even a luke-warm prospect on file, is gold, if you never let them go, and make one offer to them after another.

          The reason MAIL is so cool is that you don't "feel" the rejection if they don't go for you offer. But if you call them, you 'FEEL" the rejection.

          And with mail... even email, if you're on a tight budget... you will likely hit one of the three reasons they buy from you...
          1. THEY LIKE YOU
          2. THEY ARE CONVINCED THAT YOU'VE GOT A GOOD DEAL
          3. THEY WERE GONNA BUY THIS CRAP ANYWAY AND YOU JUST SHOWED UP AT THE RIGHT TIME.

          So if you mail a lot... even if you're not that talented with ad copy, you'll stumble onto being LIKEABLE, CONVINCING or SHOWING UP AT THE RIGHT TIME.

          Also, marketing is somewhat about the words you use, but mostly it's about the strategy you use.

          Anyway... just thinking aloud with you Brother Claude.

          Thanks for your imput, as always,

          Yours
          Linwood Austin
          P.S. Love your mattress business insights.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
    Claude Whitacre
    ASK me to show/share the letter I was talking about earlier.
    I heard just the other day, the client was getting close to 20% response on the letter.

    Keep in mind, the letter asks for a few bucks to get MORE INFO.

    He mailed to a hot list, the hottest of lists.

    I suspect once he runs out of those names, he might get a 10% response.

    But still.. THAT IS WAY COOL.
    He's building by direct mail, a loyal audience.

    No tire kickers. His responses have to cough up some dough.

    This is essentially a SALES FUNNEL but off line.

    But it's better due to the dynamics of DIRECT MAIL.
    Building an email sales funnel -- there's no commitment, no cost to them to sign up and they delete and unsubscribe too quickly.

    But no one bothers -- or even can -- get off a direct mail list.

    And the only thing to remember after ya get them... is to mail like hell.

    Just thinkin'
    Linwood
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by AdmanMrWoo View Post

      No tire kickers. His responses have to cough up some dough.
      My thought exactly.

      It makes marketers feel better if they get the name and e-mail address, and then e-mail over and over again to get the first small order.

      Me? The relationship begins when they give me money. They buy first, and then I market to them.

      The difference between a prospect that has given you their credit card number and just $5 is vastly more valuable than an e-mail address of someone who hasn't spent any money with you.

      It's why joint ventures are so profitable, you are only dealing with buyers.

      I know you know all this.
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      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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      • Profile picture of the author AdmanMrWoo
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        My thought exactly.

        It makes marketers feel better if they get the name and e-mail address, and then e-mail over and over again to get the first small order.

        Me? The relationship begins when they give me money. They buy first, and then I market to them.

        The difference between a prospect that has given you their credit card number and just $5 is vastly more valuable than an e-mail address of someone who hasn't spent any money with you.

        It's why joint ventures are so profitable, you are only dealing with buyers.

        I know you know all this.

        Making money this way... OFF LINE... has so many advantages.

        I just heard through the grapevine that even Frank Kerns is now selling a $29 book on marketing or copywriting or something... if that's true... ain't it funny... he was suppose to be this big shot who would only talk to you if you could pay him the super big bucks.

        $29 bucks???? my how times have changed.



        Thus... my argument that SELLING BY OLD FASHION DIRECT MAIL may be the way to kick it, these days.



        Listen... your universe of buyers and prospects will be smaller... but so what?

        What you want is a MORE PROFITABLE business with LESS HEADACHES. Right?

        If you have a MILLION PEOPLE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST... and 990,000 are TIRE KICKERS... what do you really have? You actually have 10,000 good names on your list.

        You see, most every market is fragmented these days.

        The BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY MARKET is bigger than it's ever been, but it's harder to tap into because some of them are on facebook, some on twitter, some scoot around youtube... but they all check their U.S. postal mail every day, to make sure they are not late on a cable bill. Damn cable company.

        Yes, the market is fragmented... so the question is HOW DO YOU FIND IT AND OWN IT?????
        You don't need A MILLION names in your market place.
        I made a boat-load of money in one of my past businesses with just 33 names in my marketplace.

        And they were all luke-warm prospects. Not even hot ones.
        How do you deal with fragmented markets?

        You settle in, realized you're not going to "get rich quick"... and start growing your business by licking one stamp at a time.

        One day... you'll have to hire 5 Mormon wives to lick your stamps.

        What a day that will be.

        Just thinkin'
        Linwood
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