Paypals affect on WSO's???

21 replies
If this is the wrong forum i apologize.

Ok, we have all been hearing of the huge hassles of the 21 day hold by paypal. Have any of you that sell WSO's regularly, considered a different method? I know that WSO Pro only takes Paypal, so will that mean switching to a site such as Ejunkie or Payloadz to sell and deliver the product? How will this affect WSO sales in general, I know a lot of people prefer to do business with Paypal, but with a 21 day hold I see many people not wanting the hassle. The reason I ask is I have a few WSO's in the works and dont want the hassle that Paypal is becoming. Will not using Paypal have a HUGE affect on sales? Any chance WSO Pro adopts another payment option?

Thanks in advance
#affect #effect #paypals #wso
  • Profile picture of the author jct226
    Don't they have the hold to protect the buyers in the event there are refunds?
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    Who said Paypal is a hassell.

    They have millions of users who never have any problems and there is a just a handful of people who get closed down usually because they went against the TOS.

    Run your business in the proper manner and you will never have any problems.

    Of course if you are selling get rich quick schemes etc you will have problems with whoever you go with.

    Quentin
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    • Profile picture of the author RJS7
      Well Said
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    • Profile picture of the author TheCG
      Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

      Who said Paypal is a hassell.

      They have millions of users who never have any problems and there is a just a handful of people who get closed down usually because they went against the TOS.

      Run your business in the proper manner and you will never have any problems.

      Of course if you are selling get rich quick schemes etc you will have problems with whoever you go with.

      Quentin
      I guess that means all of us that have had issues with them and claim not to have violated any TOS are lying?

      I have had a Paypal Business account for over 10 years and most of that time has gone smooth as glass but I have had a few times where my account was held and it was for NO REASON AT ALL.

      I just don't like the idea that they can randomly shut me down just because they feel like it. For this reason I am now setting up other options to get paid and I think any smart business person would do the same.

      I just can't believe it when someone implies that if you have ever had any kind of trouble with Paypal that you must be doing something shady.
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      • Profile picture of the author TyErickson
        Originally Posted by TheCG View Post

        I just can't believe it when someone implies that if you have ever had any kind of trouble with Paypal that you must be doing something shady.
        Exactly. The paypal guy in the audio I posted on the other thread basically admits that the guy's accounts are not being shut down for problems; they are being shut down as paypal increases their sensitivity to what they perceive of as risky business.

        While it's their business and they can do what they want it seems pretty ****ty to me to shut the guy down after years of doing business together without any warning. How about giving the guy 30 days instead?

        The paypal guy even mentions the Warrior forum and implies that everybody is selling the same thing to everybody else. I can certainly understand what he means but it's scary how they are painting everybody with such a broad brush.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          Paypal is not very different in their cause for action than any other payment processor. However, their resolution process is far less complex than just about any of the "standard" merchant processors.

          It's unlikely that anyone can point to a payment processor that will never cause the merchant a problem. Part of the problem, at least for the merchant, is that payment processors will always assume the consumer to be the damaged party. In addition, many of them are not obligated to inform the merchant of a particular complaint.

          They operate much like the store that turns you down for credit. They don't have to tell specifically why they made the decision, just that it's based on information they received.

          The fact that they process transactions for so many digital products may be part of the reason that they have flags set at higher levels of sensitivity.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

      Who said Paypal is a hassell.

      They have millions of users who never have any problems and there is a just a handful of people who get closed down usually because they went against the TOS.

      Run your business in the proper manner and you will never have any problems.

      Of course if you are selling get rich quick schemes etc you will have problems with whoever you go with.

      Quentin
      WRONG. Real businesses have problems with paypal all the time. Bigger internet companies have a full staff dedicated dealing with issues at paypal.

      Running service based businesses or intangible items you are at risk, this isn't opinion, it is from paypal itself. They are currently rebranding.
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    • Profile picture of the author believemarketing
      Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

      Who said Paypal is a hassell.

      They have millions of users who never have any problems and there is a just a handful of people who get closed down usually because they went against the TOS.

      Run your business in the proper manner and you will never have any problems.

      Of course if you are selling get rich quick schemes etc you will have problems with whoever you go with.

      Quentin
      you are obviously confident of your right-doing and have never seen paypal's bad side... you will speak different tune once you are boxed by paypal even for doing it right.....
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    I think the 2 things to remember where PayPal is concerned is:

    1. Usually (if not always) accounts get flagged (limited, frozen, whatever) by their system, and not a person. Everyone I have dealt with over the years that has had this happen (one, maybe two people) simply called and got things back on track.

    They were told PP's system flagged the account, and after short discussion, all was resolved.

    2. The 'holds' and rolling reserves that are now in place are the result of the practice that has been taught about emptying your account daily. Like it has been said many times, PP is a business, and doesn't want to end up on the hook for refunds when there's no money in the vendor's account to pay.

    Does that mean they are perfect? Far from it, and even though things get messed up at times, it's not good business to just shut things down for no reason. Not disputing the ones that say they have done nothing wrong, but like Quentin said, keep your business in order and all should be well.

    At the end of the day, get a merchant account and things will be a lot simpler. If you get one through you bank, you have a lot more leverage when there is a problem.

    Thanks,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Seantrepreneur
    I'm going to try my luck with paypal and hope for the best. WSO Pro has too many advantages not to give it a try.

    If I have any problems with it you can be sure I'll start a new thread.

    Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author Lina T
    This 21 day hold policy is temporary - once you establish you relationship with Paypal a bit more, they will not institute the hold unless you end up having a lot of chargebacks, etc ... just play by the rules and you will be fine ...
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Lina T View Post

      This 21 day hold policy is temporary - once you establish you relationship with Paypal a bit more, they will not institute the hold unless you end up having a lot of chargebacks, etc ... just play by the rules and you will be fine ...
      10 years and over a million bucks ran through my paypal account with less than .5% chargebacks or refunds and the 21 day hold was put on me.

      Playing by the rules does not mean you will be fine, I think this has been proven many times.

      Call paypal and ask to speak with someone in the risk management department, they will openly tell you that they are rebranding right now and considering any intangible item a high risk transaction. They HAVE to do this, because of the amount of chargebacks issued so far this year, they will lose their license if it continues to grow.

      Paypal is no longer a viable option to run your business.

      For WSO's... you might be fine for a while, but I think a lot of people are going to start realizing that what they used to think about paypal and the way it conducts business is just a feeling from the past. Prepare for changes, and not for the better.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lina T
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Playing by the rules does not mean you will be fine, I think this has been proven many times.
        I have done a lot of volume in Paypal over the years too and have had 21-day hold put on and then they fall off after a period of time ... and sometimes they say it is random or they say it is due to a recent transaction or whatever.

        When I say you will be fine, I mean you will eventually get your money, but overall, I do not like using Paypal and use it only if absolutely necessary and I will go through whatever measures necessary to avoid it, but in my experience I always eventually got money that was owed to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author TyErickson
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Call paypal and ask to speak with someone in the risk management department, they will openly tell you that they are rebranding right now and considering any intangible item a high risk transaction.
        I agree with everything you've said (in this thread ) except for that. If you value your paypal account (which I don't) then don't call in and talk to them. No need to raise any flags on your account. Just get a merchant account asap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel LaRusso
    Is using PayPal to receive payment for offline consulting a good choice anyway? What about just invoicing a customer and getting an actual check, or looking at other payment vendors?

    And I know, I know, this thread is technically about paypals effect on wsos.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Lina T
      Originally Posted by Daniel LaRusso View Post

      Is using PayPal to receive payment for offline consulting a good choice anyway? What about just invoicing a customer and getting an actual check, or looking at other payment vendors?

      And I know, I know, this thread is technically about paypals effect on wsos.....
      For offline consulting, and this is my opinion, Paypal is the most jacked up way to accept money. Lots of offline people do not have Paypal and do not want to register for Paypal and do not want to do an "online" transaction because it is an inconvenience. They are happy to give you their credit card though ...

      Once you have enough volume, get your own merchant account and use Paypal if absolutely necessary or if it is requested.

      The best comparison I can make is that it is like buying your groceries at a gas station week after week ... Paypal has weird rules that can affect your business in the long run - it is just not the most sensible way to manage your payments for many different reasons.

      Anyway, best of luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author O0o0O
    Lina is right. I've handled thousands of transactions through PayPal and only a handfull of holds. Usually the system automatically holds it if it thinks the purchase was made fraudulently. I've been on the phone with them before about it and that's exactly what they say. Just make sure the vast majority of your transactions are made legitimately and you should have no problem. Verify your PayPal account using a credit card, debit card, phone number and bank account. This will increase their trust towards you as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael_Le
    Banned
    listen to anthony aires recorded conversation with paypal if in doubt. paypal isnt a true merchant processor and shouldnt be treated as such
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  • Profile picture of the author Lina T
    In response to the above few posts, I sell legitimate products and services (quite a bit of it) and I maintain very good relationships with my clients, and I still experience problems with Paypal - it gets sorted out, but it is a huge hassle because the request documents that a real payment-processor would not ask for and it is rather ridiculous, in my opinion, but I want my money so I go through their silly hoops and then they are fine, until the next time they go on a whim (seemingly) to ask me for some other information so I can access my money. I really do not like them, however in some situations, there is no other choice. So I maintain the account, but still try for other options when it makes sense.

    As @believemarketing said, it has nothing to do with get rich sort of products - these are problems that occur with legitimate businesses with real products and services, as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author goldog
    On the other thread people were talking about sending tangible items (a CD/DVD) to back-up their digital products. It should protect, to some extent, against PPs intangible rule.

    For the Offline niche I would just pick up a check.

    After hearing that recording on the other thread I'd be real careful working with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author maz1207
    Hi, i never sell on WF but i bought a few stuff here. I love Paypal because i got buyer protection, a few WSO seller sometimes provide money back guaranteed but when buyer asked for refunds they will dissapear or giving lame excuses. This is the time when WSO plus support and Paypal "come in handy".
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