Failing at Site Rentals? Maybe this will help...

196 replies
I am posting this after reading several people have questions or complaints about site rentals, and also as a response to some people who have been giving Dan's system in his WSO thread a hard time, although I did not first learn this business from Dan. (this is not a pitch or review for Dan's wso or selling anything). If you wish to hear how I made it my current $6500 usd a month in 3 months read on, if you just want the advice skip past My Story and down to number 1.

My Story-

First let me start by telling you I am indeed making very good money in short order with site rentals, or as I like to say lead generation. As for prior experience I have loads of it in sales over the years, but zero IM, SEO, or website design experience before January 2012.

I stumbled onto this 'rent a site' idea mid-January 2012 after seeing some crazy overpriced webinar on it, something tsunami, I forget exact name (they wanted $997). I began to do research as the concept seemed very valid, and I do enjoy talking with business owners.

I gathered a lot up from various places including what I learned from the overpriced sales webinar, learned as much as I could about SEO (the real time sink), bought a bunch of domains after picking a niche, I chose a service business, started an LLC, opened a merchant account, and a virtual phone number account. *GO*

I then started pumping out sites, surely a lot faster than I should have and in the end learned a lot from it (such as can't have dupe content etc, I had zero programming experience) and then re tweaked the ones I had first put up to fix that. Initially I was targeting some of the lower searched keywords in order to get ranked easier, but it did not take long for me to say to myself "Umm I am not getting any calls here, no way can I feel right about leasing a site that is not getting at least 15-20 calls a month".

So I decided I had learned more about SEO by end of February and gave a go at adding the primary more competitive keywords for my niche in each city. So instead of getting a piece of 30-50 searches a month from the less competitive keywords, the keywords I was after combined were closer to 2k+ searches a month. I started to see decent results, the phone started to ring.

That is when I stumbled onto Dan's WSO a few months ago, bought it and instead of relying on every step Dan walks you through (and he does a great job btw) I picked out the nice tidbits to add to what I had already learned on my own, including the one piece of education I felt made the WSO worth it, the ping.fm, pixelpipe, online classified ad parts (and now onlywire, hello.txt and others I use also, plus I place adds all over the place for my clients). You should use all the information you can find from all sources and put it all together, find what works for you. For me it was the webinar, forum postings here and elsewhere, Dan's wso, as well as a few pm's to people on this forum, MRomeo09 & EmmaPowell. Most importantly though you MUST have the desire and motivation to succeed, without out it all the info in the world will do you no good.

I do prefer to set up a site, and get calls in a selected niche/city prior to trying to market the site, but I know some people do well with finding the client first, I just prefer it this way.

Let me stop myself before I get side tracked here I could ramble all day... End result Now is this...

I currently have 72 sites live, 50+ on 1st page of all engines, and have 22 live clients at $197-397 a month (I have been creeping up the price, depending on call count). I sign up on average 1-2 new clients a week and here is the key... I Wait until I have a Minimum 12 calls in one month for (service)(city).com BEFORE I try and sell it.

So if you care to hear, my main advice is this ( I'm no expert btw)...

1- If you are lazy, or not willing to put in a lot of work both in site development, and ongoing in client acquisition (telemarketing whatever)... Just friggin stop RIGHT now and go find something else to do, this business does not run itself. You get what you put into it!

2- OWN the phone number.
Set up a phone dot com, ring central, something. Use a local instead of a toll free for the area you are targeting. This way you can generate calls before you sell it and if the client leaves you, just re-rent it.

3-
Do not try to target just one keyword and get #1, #1 is nice for a rarely searched term, but trust me #1-7 for 20 WELL searched harder keywords will bring more organic traffic and that's what you need after all, Rank does NOT matter, CALLS do.

4- Do not focus so much on the website with the client, focus on the calls. Let them hear some voice mails of the calls, even give them a lead or two for free. Proof is in the pudding, this simply closes deals for me, end of story. DO NOT LIE, if you are not getting calls yet PLEASE do everyone a favor and do not try to sell it yet.

5- Deliver some value here, do not put up total crap websites, but they do not need to be 2000 page authority 'gems' either. Just put up ORIGINAL CONTENT on each one, and do not be stupid in the way you backlink it, balance things out, have good structure.

6- Advertise the Service (not so much the website) along with your owned virtual telephone number (I like Phone dot com). This helps generate CALLS directly and takes away some of the reliance on Google, which lets face it, could change the entire game in one day if they wanted to, and have proven they love to change algorithms.

Also after the site is rented, Continue to advertise every month, spend 10-15% of the money you are getting from the client to increase the service/number expose via ad's everywhere. It's worth the effort, you will retain clients.

7- Build Relationships. Do not just treat your customers as a number, or a site. Build a long term lasting relationship with them, you will maintain very long term clients this way. Every one of my clients has my cell, and I would be happy to answer it. If something goes wrong with a site, tell them about it do not wait for them to tell you. Explain in English what you plan to do to fix it, don't panic. People buy YOU not a website, trust me on that.

8- Diversify. Do not put all of your eggs in one basket, especially when a large part of why this business works is the organic search engine traffic. Do not dabble in 14 other things when you are starting this, but once you have it rolling, use your head man. Get into something new, one at a time until you have it down, that is different not dependent on Google so heavily. That way if one ay everything changes you still have a paycheck.

9-
Slow the F**K down... Rome was not built in a day. I had to tell myself this and am glad I did, take it easy and do it Right the first time. The site rental/lead gen business is not some get rich quick scheme, it is a genuine business. Funny thing is, if you do it slow and proper, within a year the you will be seeing very good money *Recurring*.


There is likely more but this is what came off the top of my head, and the post is already too long *Sorry* lol. I hope this helps some of you that either may have doubted the model, or perhaps you are trying it without success. Treat this like a get rich quick tactic, and you will fail miserably, then come here to complain on warrior forum that it does not work Treat this like a real business, and you very likely will be rewarded with great success.

Do not take any shortcuts!

Good luck!
Chris


*** update 5-16-12, Had a nice run since posting this forum and leased some of my newest niche sites to several people at the 497/mo. and one at 697/mo as a try at a higher mark. Over 8k a month recurring now, shooting for my first goal. I hope you all are doing well also.
#"lead generation" #"site rentals" #failing #rentals
  • Profile picture of the author JAMO
    Thanks for sharing Chris! The way I understand it, you are renting the sites. Do you ever sell the leads individually?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by JAMO View Post

      Thanks for sharing Chris! The way I understand it, you are renting the sites. Do you ever sell the leads individually?
      In actuality yes I am renting the sites, but to the client, half of them do not even know the url, to them they are buying minimum 15-20 calls from me a month, that's what their entire decision was based on. Those calls go up after I rent it because I push the site harder after it is leased (ad's etc.).

      As for the leads, no I prefer the flat rate method, but I provide a call tracking report monthly to the client, as well as using the *whisper* feature. So when they get the call they hear 'Web call' or something similar to know ongoing it's from me.

      As I get more comfortable with certain factors, like confidence in the call count, a better understanding of the average ticket of the service company etc, I have been increasing the price to newer clients.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author hometutor
        Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

        In actuality yes I am renting the sites, but to the client, half of them do not even know the url, to them they are buying minimum 15-20 calls from me a month, that's what their entire decision was based on. Those calls go up after I rent it because I push the site harder after it is leased (ad's etc.).

        As for the leads, no I prefer the flat rate method, but I provide a call tracking report monthly to the client, as well as using the *whisper* feature. So when they get the call they hear 'Web call' or something similar to know ongoing it's from me.

        As I get more comfortable with certain factors, like confidence in the call count, a better understanding of the average ticket of the service company etc, I have been increasing the price to newer clients.

        Chris
        May I ask what you charge for leasing a site Chris?


        Rick
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
          Originally Posted by hometutor View Post

          May I ask what you charge for leasing a site Chris?


          Rick

          Hi Rick,

          Chris isn't on here very much, so I thought I'd try to help. It depends on the type of business you're targeting and their average sale. Example, in most cases, an attorney is going to charge a lot more for their services than a carpet cleaner, so the value of a customer would be different and you'd need to charge accordingly.

          Also, some people, like Chris, prefer to charge a flat monthly fee. Others prefer to sell the leads individually. There are pro's and cons to each.

          Something else to consider, if the market you're targeting has the potential for repeat business I'd consider that in my pricing. The examples above are both services with potential for repeat business.

          This is a pretty long thread, but if it's something you're interested in doing you should read it from the beginning. There's a lot of good information here.

          Good luck!

          Joe
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      • Profile picture of the author loo-sir
        How do you set up the *whisper* feature on your calls?
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        • Profile picture of the author BillyParadise
          Originally Posted by loo-sir View Post

          How do you set up the *whisper* feature on your calls?
          It depends which call tracking software you're using. Many have it built in.
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  • Profile picture of the author thomasmps
    Hello Chris,


    I am curious do you stay in one niche and drill down and dominate various keywords or are you in various niches?

    thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by thomasmps View Post

      Hello Chris,


      I am curious do you stay in one niche and drill down and dominate various keywords or are you in various niches?

      thomas

      Initially yes I stayed with one niche for the first 30 of the 70ish sites, but I then ventured off into a few others, with some higher tickets to mix it up. All of my sites are a mix of 5 niches currently. I have 4 niches rented so far, as the 5th I just started.

      I do drill down a bit into one to get an idea of competition and how difficult it might be to rank, as well as a reasonable expectation for average monthly calls. After that I have found nearly identical results from city to city in terms of ranking. Some cities certainly do get better response though for certain niches. Once the calls are adequate, frankly I do not care about being number 1 in multiple keywords at all as long as the calls come in, I just keep doing what I need to do to keep it ranked, lease it and move on to building more.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
        Originally Posted by cbizweb View Post

        Initially yes I stayed with one niche for the first 30 of the 70ish sites, but I then ventured off into a few others, with some higher tickets to mix it up. All of my sites are a mix of 5 niches currently. I have 4 niches rented so far, as the 5th I just started.

        I do drill down a bit into one to get an idea of competition and how difficult it might be to rank, as well as a reasonable expectation for average monthly calls. After that I have found nearly identical results from city to city in terms of ranking. Some cities certainly do get better response though for certain niches. Once the calls are adequate, frankly I do not care about being number 1 in multiple keywords at all as long as the calls come in, I just keep doing what I need to do to keep it ranked, lease it and move on to building more.

        Chris
        You said you stayed in one niche for first 30 sites so I assume you just picked 30 different cities to target correct and picked say niche like for example plumber, lawyer, etc.?

        So are you targeting really big metro cities or ones that are within your local or at least driving distances?

        Do you meet with most of these clients to close the deal or not (this would lead to my previous question if you are targeting cities outside your range)?

        How do you do your initial kw research? So say for example you are going after plumbers...do you first try to get a domain with that general niche keyword+city at first for example "cityplumber" or "plumbercity" or "plumberincitystate" and then incorporate the other long tails within your content to rank for like "24 hour emergency plumber in city", etc..?

        What sort of call to action(CTA) do you have on your site? I think this is the key to any of these rental type of sites and in that it must be compelling for them to pick up the phone and call. Do you also incorporate a contact form or not?

        What is the percentage of visitors that come to the site and the number of calls say per month on average for one of your site?
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        • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
          Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

          You said you stayed in one niche for first 30 sites so I assume you just picked 30 different cities to target correct and picked say niche like for example plumber, lawyer, etc.?

          So are you targeting really big metro cities or ones that are within your local or at least driving distances?

          Do you meet with most of these clients to close the deal or not (this would lead to my previous question if you are targeting cities outside your range)?

          How do you do your initial kw research? So say for example you are going after plumbers...do you first try to get a domain with that general niche keyword+city at first for example "cityplumber" or "plumbercity" or "plumberincitystate" and then incorporate the other long tails within your content to rank for like "24 hour emergency plumber in city", etc..?

          What sort of call to action(CTA) do you have on your site? I think this is the key to any of these rental type of sites and in that it must be compelling for them to pick up the phone and call. Do you also incorporate a contact form or not?

          What is the percentage of visitors that come to the site and the number of calls say per month on average for one of your site?

          Good questions...

          I initially made 30 in just 1 niche spread out to cities all over the US, in fact none are in driving distance. On the low end population maybe 80k, high end 1 million. I have not had any issues creating successful sites at the larger markets but there are some things to be aware of.

          For one, if it is a huge metro area (say 750k+) you could be missing out on some potential of breaking into 5 different sites ( think New York), and on top of that if we use plumbers like in your example, you will find many plumbers may not wish to cover such a broad area so it could be more difficult to close. Now with the lawyer example, I do not think you would run into the too wide of an area problem, but service companies yes.

          Secondly you will likely be dealing with more competition in your niche and just more plumbers in that area, just due to raw numbers it will likely take you twice as long to get well ranked. However, if you do your job right it will still be fine. I recommend initially you focus on 100k-300k cities to get your initial clients, then grow from there.


          I close my clients entirely over the phone, and do all of my telemarketing using a Skype subscription.

          As for keyword research I tend to pick 4-5 cities at a time of varying populations, then start my keyword research from there around my niche. Initially I will just enter using Adwords tool to see general searches. If it's intriguing I will then fire up my favorite deep research tool. There may be better choices but after trying a few my favorite method by far is using Market Samurai to do all of my keyword homework. I will then take a look at who is on the first page for what I am after and see just how easy or tough it might be, then decide to go forward or not.

          I will certainly go after an EMD with the highest search keyword in my niche I can get, and do not care if it is .com, .net, or .org. However, I will fully optimize the site for at minimum the top 10 searched phrases for the niche. I will throw some long tails in there, but between a <10 searched keyword versus a 880 searches a month keyword is a no brainer which I will go for.

          The CTA is the Number plastered everywhere and large, that is my only goal, CALL NOW etc. As for contact forms I bought a developers license to Gravity forms, all my sites are on Wordpress, it works great. I set up the number to go to the client, the form entries to go to the client, heck customers can even text the number and it goes to the client.

          As for what percentage calls it's hard to tell because I am certain I get a fair amount of calls from the non organic ad's as well, they are mixed in. Those people are dialing the number without ever visiting the site.

          Just remember, Rank means Nothing, sure it helps, but Only calls matter. So you want to rank for as much surrounding your niche as possible, and generate traffic from more than just Google.

          I am always trying to improve what I am doing, remember I am still very new to this, I did things even a month ago that I laugh at now.

          Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author donblack11
    Are you getting listed on Google Places or only targeting organic?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by donblack11 View Post

      Are you getting listed on Google Places or only targeting organic?

      Everything is either organic, or direct calls from various ad's currently. I have not messed with Google places yet, but I do have several cities where I am outranking places or most of them.

      I have been doing a little research though on Places, and have been thinking about doing an add on type thing for existing clients. I do not want to get someone rocking on places and somehow lose the customer which then might outrank me, but will likely get around to dabbling in Places.

      Remember I am still an IM newbie so I know diddly squat, but I do know sales . I bought a WSO or two on places buried somewhere, I might get around to learning it. Currently I have a goal of getting to roughly $20k a month recurring before I venture off into new branches, which should not be too long. The telemarketing is the part that keeps it slow, I am good at it but I hate it lol.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnnyBattles
        Where are you directing your call tracking to when you setup the sites at first? Are you taking the calls your self or sending them directly to the business and then following up with them after a few calls?
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        • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
          Originally Posted by JohnnyBattles View Post

          Where are you directing your call tracking to when you setup the sites at first? Are you taking the calls your self or sending them directly to the business and then following up with them after a few calls?
          I have the calls initially going to the virtual numbers voice mail. When a lead comes into a site that is not rented I call a random service company in that area from my call list and give the lead away, it's a fantastic ice breaker, and I have even eventually closed some clients this way without ever truly 'pitching' them. Just be creative.

          By the way, personally I feel I have to do this, I would not feel right for calls to not be responded to by a company in that field, so I do go the extra mile to be sure leads get to a service company before the site is not yet rented, it's unethical to do otherwise to me.

          Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author rugman
    What type of ads are your running - classifieds in the paper? where are most of the calls coming from - ads or the web?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by rugman View Post

      What type of ads are your running - classifieds in the paper? where are most of the calls coming from - ads or the web?
      Online classifieds mainly at first, and social sites. However once the site is leased I actually do spend 10-15% of the monthly fee I am collecting to offline advertise the number also in as many mediums as is viable for that 10-15%. Unfortunately I have no way to know which medium is getting the most call since I need them to all go directly to the client through the one virtual number, but I would assume organic is at least 50%.

      I want clients for years not months, even if everything at the search engines change.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author localvseo
        Unless I am missing something about your model, there is no reason you can't have different numbers for different ad campaigns or ad sources so you can track where the leads are coming from. I would highly suggest this. You can then really focus your monthly budget on the places where you are getting the most leads. It's only a few extra dollars a month per client to do this and you may end up with a lot higher call rate.


        Originally Posted by cbizweb View Post

        Online classifieds mainly at first, and social sites. However once the site is leased I actually do spend 10-15% of the monthly fee I am collecting to offline advertise the number also in as many mediums as is viable for that 10-15%. Unfortunately I have no way to know which medium is getting the most call since I need them to all go directly to the client through the one virtual number, but I would assume organic is at least 50%.

        I want clients for years not months, even if everything at the search engines change.

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
          Originally Posted by localvseo View Post

          Unless I am missing something about your model, there is no reason you can't have different numbers for different ad campaigns or ad sources so you can track where the leads are coming from. I would highly suggest this. You can then really focus your monthly budget on the places where you are getting the most leads. It's only a few extra dollars a month per client to do this and you may end up with a lot higher call rate.

          Wow Localvseo, that is such an awesome idea and should have been obvious to me yet sadly somehow it was not :confused:. Thank you for bringing this up, I most certainly will be trying this on some of my more experimental paid types of advertising I am trying with some of my clients.

          I mean I have been tracking overall costs and watching call counts rise as I added 1, 2, 3 more paid sources, and keeping everything at a reasonably low level of cost versus income per client, but this gem of an idea should help refine that immensely. ROFL, still stumped how somehow I overlooked the different number idea, particularly with how inexpensive each number is per month.

          Thank you for your help fellow warrior.

          Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author rugman
    Great thread here - I actually set up a site last year that I planned to rent out in the mortgage biz - never could though. I may make some changes to it and see if I can make it a lead gen site instead. I am thinking of setting up a places page for it as well. I git Dr Dans WSO also - great!
    Also - how are yo using hello.txt? I use pixlpipe and the other one form Dr Dan but never the other 2 you mention.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by rugman View Post

      Great thread here - I actually set up a site last year that I planned to rent out in the mortgage biz - never could though. I may make some changes to it and see if I can make it a lead gen site instead. I am thinking of setting up a places page for it as well. I git Dr Dans WSO also - great!
      Also - how are yo using hello.txt? I use pixlpipe and the other one form Dr Dan but never the other 2 you mention.

      Leads are so much easier to sell than websites. The one thing I can honestly say after many telemarketing calls is these people are getting hounded by 'SEO' and 'Website' calls. Just saying SEO, Website, or Google will likely get you a disgruntled hangup. However, you break the ice talking Customer calls, and sometimes even giving them a free customer right then and see how different the conversation goes.

      I can't give you any Places insight yet, never got around to learning it but I am sure to soon. Hello.txt, onlywire, they are all the same thing really with little twists, they all send to a multitude of social networks at once, just google them and learn about it. *educate yourself* all the info is out there. With Pixelpipe actively deleting accounts the see as nothing but Ad or SEO accounts, it helps to use as much as possible. Pixel is the overall best in my eyes though.

      Get it done brother, refocus your efforts, change that mortgage site to a lead gen and get that puppy leased this month... Act don't think.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Aussieguy
    In a post I made on another thread I said I didn't know why people doing the "lead gen site" model (something I've considered doing before but left it for now) didn't seem to talk much about incorporating into the pricing an advertising budget for the actual site. Relying purely on seo doesn't make sense to me for this type of site. After all, the whole point of the site is to be a showcase...so the more views the more it's worth. I'd be doing PPC, FB ads, offline ads - whatever made sense.

    Great to see you incorporating the actual purpose of the sites into your actual model.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by Aussieguy View Post

      In a post I made on another thread I said I didn't know why people doing the "lead gen site" model (something I've considered doing before but left it for now) didn't seem to talk much about incorporating into the pricing an advertising budget for the actual site. Relying purely on seo doesn't make sense to me for this type of site. After all, the whole point of the site is to be a showcase...so the more views the more it's worth. I'd be doing PPC, FB ads, offline ads - whatever made sense.

      Great to see you incorporating the actual purpose of the sites into your actual model.
      Thanks Aussieguy, I could not agree more. Get relevant traffic to the Number, not just the site. Trust me owners do not give a crap where they are ranked, they just want the business... So give them what they want by pushing your service from every imaginable direction. Also spend some of your earnings from the client on paid ad methods to boost it even more. Make them a a long term VERY happy client.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author AussieT
    What a great post Chris

    For a newbie you are killing it. Goes to show what can be done when you put your mind to it.

    Do you write all the content yourself or outsource it?

    Why a local number and not a free call number?

    You mentioned you have 22 live clients and 72 sites how many of the sites are rented out of the 50 on page 1?

    I like your ethics in only wanting to rent them when they are producing real results - above 15 calls per month.

    We look forward to picking your brain and learning more.

    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by AussieT View Post

      What a great post Chris

      For a newbie you are killing it. Goes to show what can be done when you put your mind to it.

      Do you write all the content yourself or outsource it?

      Why a local number and not a free call number?

      You mentioned you have 22 live clients and 72 sites how many of the sites are rented out of the 50 on page 1?

      I like your ethics in only wanting to rent them when they are producing real results - above 15 calls per month.

      We look forward to picking your brain and learning more.

      Tom

      Thanks for the compliment Tom, it has been a lot of work but is paying off.

      Yes I write all of my own content, and it becomes easier once you have done a few sites on one niche to do more on the same niche. However, I think outsourcing the content is a great idea with a good writer, and I actually may end up mixing that in the future. Right now though I like to be 100% in tune and in charge of every decision I make meticulously for the first huge batch. I will likely focus on more outsourcing down the road though, once I am extremely comfortable with my exact blueprint start to finish ya know.

      My first two sites had 800 numbers, but I started thinking as a customer. I dunno I felt a toll free number seemed more 'distant' to some of these cites. I mean many of these cities do not even dial area codes when they call people in town, they like 7 digit numbers it feels more 'Real person' and local to them. So then I passed the question toll-free or local to MRomeo here on warrior forum and he said in his testing local did better also. 'Nuff said, so I changed the two toll free's to local and never looked back, always local now.

      All of my rented sites are on page one for several keywords in the niche at various ranks with all engines.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Beatty
    I love that you've figured out "the mindset" that you need to approach these business owners with. Everyone needs to stop talking about the "Service" and start talking about the "Results".... Ultimately, business owners want customers! Talk their language and you will be successful. Glad you got this down! Great post!
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    • Profile picture of the author asiamaria
      Great post Chris and well done to you.

      How are you laying out these sites? Are they typical lead capture sites?

      What do you say when your calling to sell the ongoing leads?

      Do your classified point back to the site and I presume you have the lease number in there anyway?

      Appreciate your thoughts.

      Lee
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by asiamaria View Post

        Great post Chris and well done to you.

        How are you laying out these sites? Are they typical lead capture sites?

        What do you say when your calling to sell the ongoing leads?

        Do your classified point back to the site and I presume you have the lease number in there anyway?

        Appreciate your thoughts.

        Lee
        I am not really interested in lead capture as goal #1. My primary goal is to get these customers to call the number whether that number is on the website or on an ad I placed on or offline somewhere, which in turn rings my clients phone with a whisper telling them it's from me. I do have a contact form there though for people who prefer to submit requests, even that though goes straight to the client (with a BCC to me of course for tracking purposes). Once a site is leased I do not want to have to manage the leads, I want everything on autopilot so I can focus on building more sites, and keeping the traffic flowing to the leased ones.

        I suppose if you had a very high ticket niche lead capture with commission would make more financial sense, but I love flat recurring residual income monthly more than anything.

        I am not going to share any part of my telemarketing pitch, as it took quite a bit of trial and error to finally land on a good one but I can give you pointers. Keep the conversation personable, NOT canned. Focus on them and their business well being not yourself (no I this I that). Don't mention Google, SEO, or website, especially early on, these people are hounded daily by SEO companies, you need to distance yourself so they see you are something altogether different. Get them talking about their business and when they do STFU and let them gloat, that loosens them up. Most importantly, Have confidence that you have something you KNOW is of extreme value to them. They will sense if you are weak or not even confident in what you are telling them. Lastly, keep it brief, don't talk for 10 minutes AT them, talk back and forth With them.

        I do list the site in my ad's but all the attention of the ad's themselves is focused on the service being provided and the phone number call to action. I could care less if they go to the site, I just want their calls!

        By the way if any of you have been doing this way longer than me, by all means share some of your success, I would love to learn ways to improve this business even more!

        Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by BestPMarketing View Post

      I love that you've figured out "the mindset" that you need to approach these business owners with. Everyone needs to stop talking about the "Service" and start talking about the "Results".... Ultimately, business owners want customers! Talk their language and you will be successful. Glad you got this down! Great post!
      Thank you for the compliment. It's sales 101 really... Find a need/demand/want then fill it, and then OVER-Deliver. Recipe for long term clients right there.

      I do not even mention Google, or ranking in my sales calls, I focus the entire contact around, I have these customers calling... Want them?

      I would not say I have it 'down' as I am constantly improving what I do, but certainly seems the right direction eh?

      Thanks again.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author asiamaria
    Chris,

    How do you provide content on the sites about the niche when you dont know the specifics of what a company does or how they do it if you arent already working with them?

    This is my problem it feels the site is unfinished because I am waiting for info from the company who will eventually take it.

    I would appreciate your take on this as its stopping me moving forward.

    Thank you

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by asiamaria View Post

      Chris,

      How do you provide content on the sites about the niche when you dont know the specifics of what a company does or how they do it if you arent already working with them?

      This is my problem it feels the site is unfinished because I am waiting for info from the company who will eventually take it.

      I would appreciate your take on this as its stopping me moving forward.

      Thank you

      Lee
      I create the site covering ALL aspects of the niche business in a very general way, so I get calls for every specific need in that niche. This way the site is 100% operational before a client match is found. However, once I lease the site/calls, I then tweak the site and accompanying ad's to be more specifically in line with what the client does and does not like to do within that niche. So after they pop their credit card in the recurring billing they are asked in detail about their business. I also to snag some content from their site when able too, but never list their company name on my site or ad's.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
    I sort of skimmed through the replies, read the OP's post. I do something very similar and with same results. Stuff works.

    I would strongly advise against setting up a bunch of "fake" google places listings, when google catches up to you (much like panda/penguin caught up to most) , your whole business model will fold.

    Rather, UPSELL THE CLIENT TO GOOGLE PLACES AND OPTIMIZE IT FOR THEM.

    You have already built rapport with a client, as they are getting calls:

    "Hey, just checking in, I noticed you got 25 calls last month, I know a way we can ramp this up even more, and you can have TWO spots on the first page.." - upsell.

    Most clients will ask you what else you know how to do anyways and say they want "this" or "that"


    Stop trying to build a "business" with "fake" google places listings, jesus.

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

      I sort of skimmed through the replies, read the OP's post. I do something very similar and with same results. Stuff works.

      I would strongly advise against setting up a bunch of "fake" google places listings, when google catches up to you (much like panda/penguin caught up to most) , your whole business model will fold.

      Rather, UPSELL THE CLIENT TO GOOGLE PLACES AND OPTIMIZE IT FOR THEM.

      You have already built rapport with a client, as they are getting calls:

      "Hey, just checking in, I noticed you got 25 calls last month, I know a way we can ramp this up even more, and you can have TWO spots on the first page.." - upsell.

      Most clients will ask you what else you know how to do anyways and say they want "this" or "that"


      Stop trying to build a "business" with "fake" google places listings, jesus.

      Ryan

      I do not want to do anything fake google places or not, so I totally agree with you Ryan. Like I also said earlier, I was thinking it could be a fantastic upgrade offer once my client is with me for 3 months or so. I want to be sure they are staying though before I get their places going.

      I do need to spend some time to self educate on places still, but I love it as an upsell idea to established clients.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
        Originally Posted by cbizweb View Post

        I do not want to do anything fake google places or not, so I totally agree with you Ryan. Like I also said earlier, I was thinking it could be a fantastic upgrade offer once my client is with me for 3 months or so. I want to be sure they are staying though before I get their places going.

        I do need to spend some time to self educate on places still, but I love it as an upsell idea to established clients.

        Chris
        Definitely, and judging from your post, I wouldn't peg you as the one to mess up a good thing. Just for the other random questions - there was a WSO flying around not long ago that suggested that,and these people are now trying to validate it in this sub-forum -

        9 time out of 10, they will not get validated by anyone here whose posts are worth any merit.

        Just wanted to clear the air on that - and yes, it is an easy upsell, and instead of learning GP your self, find someone to do it for you that does know how, as long as you can sell it (which you stress above, they are buying you)

        Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author mavericx
    Hey Chris - could you post a link (or send me an IM) to Dan's WSO about this stuff?

    Much appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author EmmaPowell
    Phenomenal post by a warrior who has NAILED IT!!!!

    No BS! Straight shooter, this is how it is

    The best thing about offline and lead gen is once you start to make money for your offline client they gladly purchase upsells from you.

    As Ryan mentioned upsells are very important as is diversification of traffic sources - organic, classifieds, GP, Video are all important

    Great work!!!!!!

    Emma
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by EmmaPowell View Post

      Phenomenal post by a warrior who has NAILED IT!!!!

      No BS! Straight shooter, this is how it is

      The best thing about offline and lead gen is once you start to make money for your offline client they gladly purchase upsells from you.

      As Ryan mentioned upsells are very important as is diversification of traffic sources - organic, classifieds, GP, Video are all important

      Great work!!!!!!

      Emma
      Thank you Emma, and thanks for the skype chat a few months back answering some of my questions.

      Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author latinsydney
      Emma, with the service you provide to your clients are you using any types of insurance? (professional indemnity insurance, public liability insurance)
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  • Profile picture of the author electronik69
    Wow great post my only bone to pick is your not charging enough!
    Signature
    If it doesn't sell, it isn't creative - David Ogilvy
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by electronik69 View Post

      Wow great post my only bone to pick is your not charging enough!
      Completely agree. Early on it was a confidence thing, I felt I would ease into this and start increasing rates after I had some sales under my belt, and I have. I have several signed at $397/mo now, and on some of the new niches I am working with have higher ticket type sales than the first few, I see those going to the 500-1000$ per month territory. I firmly believe your pricing needs built from the average tickets of the industry, not the same for every niche.

      So I feel ya Electronik, and have already been working on better maximizing profits, thanks for the feedback.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author apexlm
        Nice post! I am just getting ready to implement this type of campaign in my business. You gave me some good things to think about getting started. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author jspmedia
    what kind of SEO you doing it to get into page 1? Just SB and ping it?
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    • Profile picture of the author James.N
      Originally Posted by jspmedia View Post

      what kind of SEO you doing it to get into page 1? Just SB and ping it?
      This is what I'm working on now as well, what helps it rank and what doesnt.
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      First, thanks for starting this thread, Chris. I've been going over and over this model in my head and bought a few WSO's, but somehow you hit something in my brain that opened my eyes to some of the ways it could work. The WSO's that I've bought all stress "easy" ways to hit page one of google, or to do things to get an address and essentially get a fake Google Places listing. You brought out that one could and should do other forms of marketing too, from adwords to other traditional offline methods. I don't know, it just put the whole package together for me, so thanks for that.

      Now, my question. How do you know who to throw the leads to at first? How do you go about picking a company, especially in cities that you don't know anything about? Are bigger, seemingly more established companies better than the little guys? How do you make that call as to who to trust with your leads? You seem like a stand-up guy who wants to take care of these people, so I thought you might have some advice on this. You don't want to hand leads over to shysters.

      Thanks,
      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by umc View Post

        First, thanks for starting this thread, Chris. I've been going over and over this model in my head and bought a few WSO's, but somehow you hit something in my brain that opened my eyes to some of the ways it could work. The WSO's that I've bought all stress "easy" ways to hit page one of google, or to do things to get an address and essentially get a fake Google Places listing. You brought out that one could and should do other forms of marketing too, from adwords to other traditional offline methods. I don't know, it just put the whole package together for me, so thanks for that.

        Now, my question. How do you know who to throw the leads to at first? How do you go about picking a company, especially in cities that you don't know anything about? Are bigger, seemingly more established companies better than the little guys? How do you make that call as to who to trust with your leads? You seem like a stand-up guy who wants to take care of these people, so I thought you might have some advice on this. You don't want to hand leads over to shysters.

        Thanks,
        Mike

        Yeah Mike Most people want easy, practically done for them, ways to #1 Google, and then they think the job is done and it's only a matter of time for them to be a millionaire, so those WSO's likely make good money but I doubt many of the people using them do if they only stick to only to those methods. Yet at the same time I bet you there is some valuable information in every one of those WSO's that could be extracted and put into use as just One part of a the money site you are building.

        Also you mention 'Fake' Google Places, something like that is so obviously wrong that people deserved to get destroyed if they go that route. Everything about what you are building should be a Legit setup, once you cross that line now you are approaching fraud, and there is no integrity in that. However, once you have a client, you should exploit Google Places to the fullest with your client, no doubt.

        So back to your point yes, use as many avenues as you can, keep what works, trash what doesn't, and never stop trying to improve. Which below do you think is more likely to succeed long term?

        1) A stream of traffic from just once source,say Organic Google traffic since thats mostly what people rely on.

        2) A stream of traffic from all search engines, online classifed ad's, offline classifieds, PPC, Social (FB, Twitter, Pinterest), links from credible sites in your Niche, customer review on directory sites, flyers, postcards, the list goes on and you continue adding to it.


        Does #1 or #2 have a better chance of 'Making it long term'?

        No stone should be left unturned. My advice is to do as much of this as you can that costs no more than the time you put into it at first. Then once you have a client, use a reasonable portion of the ongoing income you receive from them to attack the other avenues of online/offline marketing to increase the traffic and keep it there. Be sure you have some means though of tracking what is working particularly on the ones you are spending money on, and expand upon the ones that work while deleting what does not.

        You get out of something what you put into it.

        Hope this helps.

        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
    Chris,

    Do you setup your site in a similar manner like the example sites in Dan's WSO, but just add more unique content on the homepage?

    Are your sites simply1 page that (plus like privacy, TOS, contact us pages) that talks in general about that niche and different aspects of it and why you should hire "City niche" for your next service. Nothing specific about any specific company or business in the content correct?
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

      Chris,

      Do you setup your site in a similar manner like the example sites in Dan's WSO, but just add more unique content on the homepage?

      Are your sites simply1 page that (plus like privacy, TOS, contact us pages) that talks in general about that niche and different aspects of it and why you should hire "City niche" for your next service. Nothing specific about any specific company or business in the content correct?
      Not really like he shows it no, as I had already designed many of my sites before ever seeing his WSO. However, the general idea is the same, strong call to action shown very prominent high & large on the page (telephone number, contact form), followed by content on the niche, a video made just for that niche/location, and more content below that more specific to services offered for that city (along with some picture.)

      My sites are mostly one page 800-1200 word type setups, with non-indexed ToS, privacy, contact pages etc. Although I must say in the near future I plan to start building authority cites in certain cities that have immense value to people looking for free information on a topic, then off branch multiple service backlinks to some of the sites I have built in those cites, to help further rely less on search engines for the traffic.

      As to the question about initial SEO, all my sites are currently Wordpress with a premium theme development package (my favorite is Thesis), along with either All in One SEO, or Platinum SEO plug in. I do not keyword stuff, if something reads funky to me then it surely will for others, that being said I do go for getting as many variations of my keywords in the copy that reads natural, then optimize the plug-in, the title tags, descriptions, and any picture tags etc. Once that is done I ping it all over the place, this is usually enough to rank it semi-decent for the niche alone.

      After a few weeks later (do not backlink your a$$ off from day 1) slowly I begin a series of about 15 steps over a 2-3 month period that I continually refine encompassing backlinking from multiple types of sources (I love Fiverr for this, but be very careful how you choose your providers there, and dear God mix the types up and do not go for too many too fast). I also do specific manual backlinking to the same industry the niche deals with (I have my wife do the research on this one obviously this takes a lot of time).

      Also I will do rather continual classified type advertising in about 20 sources of course with proper anchors, which I then blast through PingFM, PixelPipe, HelloTXT, Onlywire, and more. Recently have been starting to do some 2.0 stuff like Squidoo, but have a lot to learn still. I am no expert in this area, but I was a total 100% newb in January, so you have to start somewhere right?

      Remember I could give a S**T about rank, ALL I care about is Calls!

      I wont share exactly which ones I do when and how often etc, as I believe that is something personal to me that each person needs to learn on their own and improve upon, I will say PLEASE take it slow and don't over SEO or get too aggressive backlinking too fast etc, if you do you are just asking to be put in the penalty box. Also be sure to heavily diversify all the methods and sources in all of your off site seo, the more the better, and spread them out over time. (Again this is just personal experience, I am still to this day an SEO newb, there are many far better people to ask about SEO on this forum, please chime in on this if that is you.)

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author seanpbh
        Do you outsource the SEO and how much would you spend on this per site?
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        • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
          Originally Posted by seanpbh View Post

          Do you outsource the SEO and how much would you spend on this per site?
          Sean,

          No I do not outsource SEO per se, but sure I buy a 'gig' from time to time from people. Outsourcing a very large aspect of my business is actually what I have been focusing more on the past couple months. Scaling up has been a real b**ch as I find some things difficult to not do personally, but once I hit a certain count in clients it became clear outsourcing was going to be a requirement. I now have my wife pretty much doing a full time job of mini-tasks I have her do daily. Eventually though I am sure I will be hiring a full time web guy to do my sites, because frankly the web design is 'By Far' my weakest attribute, I excel in selling, and 'Doing What it Takes to Make Customers Happy!', so I am going to attempt to outsource everything but those two things throughout this year if you get my drift.

          As for how much to spend, I think you just need to come up with a comfortable percentage you are willing to give up of your profit margin via outsourcing in order to allow you more time/freedom to do the parts you excel in.

          Just figure out what aspect of the process you are exceptional at and do more of that, while outsourcing the rest when possible, at least that's my view on it.

          -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author zannix
    Hi there, you're rocking it, congratulations!

    I'm still a newbie, got only 1 client but I'll get better! Tell me, I'm very interested in this phone redirecting feature, and tracking the redirected calls - this intrigued me!

    Could you please elaborate on this? What service do you use? Can I use it if I live outside the USA? How do your clients know the calls come from you?

    Thanks so much,
    Zannix
    Signature
    All you can do is all you can do - Art Williams
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      Originally Posted by zannix View Post

      Hi there, you're rocking it, congratulations!

      I'm still a newbie, got only 1 client but I'll get better! Tell me, I'm very interested in this phone redirecting feature, and tracking the redirected calls - this intrigued me!

      Could you please elaborate on this? What service do you use? Can I use it if I live outside the USA? How do your clients know the calls come from you?

      Thanks so much,
      Zannix

      Zannix,

      Call fire has an international number, some Aussie's I am helping in my skype group uses them. So when you say "outside the USA" - I can say they work in Australia. Call them, they have great customer service. International number listed on the site.

      Ry
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      • Profile picture of the author AussieT
        Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

        Zannix,

        Call fire has an international number, some Aussie's I am helping in my skype group uses them. So when you say "outside the USA" - I can say they work in Australia. Call them, they have great customer service. International number listed on the site.

        Ry
        Well that certain piqued my interest. I have been looking for a good Aussie alternative. I did not know that callfire has aussie numbers. I loved your Offline Legion Reloaded by the way.
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        • Profile picture of the author Free4life
          Just wanted to say thanks for the informative thread.

          I have been putting this business model into action and have not had much success yet. My main problem is lack of traffic. I need to think bigger and go after more traffic, from more sources and for more keywords per site. No traffic = no leads.

          I am curious how much traffic your sites are getting?
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          • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
            Originally Posted by Free4life View Post

            Just wanted to say thanks for the informative thread.

            I have been putting this business model into action and have not had much success yet. My main problem is lack of traffic. I need to think bigger and go after more traffic, from more sources and for more keywords per site. No traffic = no leads.

            I am curious how much traffic your sites are getting?
            Yeah don;t be afraid to go after the bigger search terms, especially if you are competing in a localized niche not nation or worldwide.

            My traffic varies a lot depending on the niche. My lowest least site gets just 8-10 calls a month (higher ticket item), the best maybe 40 calls per month. Now those are calls, which are frankly the only traffic I care about. As I improve things I will likely start paying more attention to actual unique visitors and things like bounce rate, or visit count versus call count and tweaking the site to improve that ratio. Yet I am for now going to continue mission exactly as it is until I hit the $20k a month mark, then I will start refining more.

            Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by zannix View Post

      Hi there, you're rocking it, congratulations!

      I'm still a newbie, got only 1 client but I'll get better! Tell me, I'm very interested in this phone redirecting feature, and tracking the redirected calls - this intrigued me!

      Could you please elaborate on this? What service do you use? Can I use it if I live outside the USA? How do your clients know the calls come from you?

      Thanks so much,
      Zannix

      Thank you for the compliment Zannix, you know what they say right? Go Big or Go Home! Don't half do something ya know, so I am All in!

      Personally I have taken a look at Callfire (good one maybe your best bet for International), Ring Central, and Phone dot com. Not sure if the last two do international or not, and I see Ryanmckinney is saying Callfire may be best for Aussie, he may be right. In the US though I ended up going with Phone dot com myself, and frankly could not be happier.

      Initially I have it going to a voicemail for that niche's site. Once a few calls come in I actually call businesses in that town WITHOUT pitching them, and just give out FREE leads, which also makes me feel better as I do not think it is right to let customer calls go un-answered, feels deceptive to do it any other way to me. This obviously gets these businesses a bit fired up wondering how/why am I giving this business to them for free. Once the calls have increased on the site and I am ready to actually pitch the companies and find a permanent home for the calls, who do you think I first approach? I end up with a pretty good closing ratio on those people I gave leads to, not always though if not no harm done I just move on and sell it pretty quickly.

      Omce the site is sold/leased I then just point the number to the client's number of choice. One very important and Powerful feature of any phone forwarding Zannix is to the ability to silently announce or whisper a message before the call goes through so the client knows the call came from you, be SURE to use this it will keep your clients very happy. If you do unfortunately lose a client you can then just forward the number back to your voicemail, sell it to another and point it to them.

      One thing about that loss of client thing by the way. Do not tell people they will get 50 calls a month if you know damn well it will only be 10. Really? I have heard a lot of these business owners telling me people have done that to them, and they are rather refreshed when I am feeding them NO BS telling them 15 calls a month for instance.

      If you LIE it WILL come back to you. the very best method is to UNDER promise and OVER deliver, then you keep them for life!

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Adwizard
    Ha Ha... Ryan, your modesty cracks me up, but it is very nice! Folks, don't be fooled... he speaks like just a reader of this string but McKinney is a real pro here. He knows exactly how this is done and is selling one of the absolute best WSO's on this subject. (Ryan, you need to add that link to your signature, so people can really check that out.) I got to talking to him in another thread and he was kind enough to send me a preview copy before he ever sold it. It really was pretty incredible!!! I have heard from a friend or someone that he has actually put out a new one but I don't know what it is so I can't actually speak about that one yet. Put the link in your signature Ryan so I can buy one for sure. After the first one I think I would buy anything you put out. He is a very thorough teacher... and breaks everything down to the simple. I MUST SAY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS TOPIC... RYAN IS THE CONSUMATE PRO!!!
    Signature
    Building Businesses Beyond their Four Walls by
    Thinking Outside the Box... since 1993.
    Is anyone capable of designing a mobile site for
    this e-commerce site for a fee:
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      Originally Posted by Adwizard View Post

      Ha Ha... Ryan, your modesty cracks me up, but it is very nice! Folks, don't be fooled... he speaks like just a reader of this string but McKinney is a real pro here. He knows exactly how this is done and is selling one of the absolute best WSO's on this subject. (Ryan, you need to add that link to your signature, so people can really check that out.) I got to talking to him in another thread and he was kind enough to send me a preview copy before he ever sold it. It really was pretty incredible!!! I have heard from a friend or someone that he has actually put out a new one but I don't know what it is so I can't actually speak about that one yet. Put the link in your signature Ryan so I can buy one for sure. After the first one I think I would buy anything you put out. He is a very thorough teacher... and breaks everything down to the simple. I MUST SAY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS TOPIC... RYAN IS THE CONSUMATE PRO!!!

      Kind words , thanks ..

      I don't use the sub forum to promote , just try to help but people will never listen to free advice , there is no value in it , its free. But pay for something , oh yah let me do it now !

      I am just a reader on the post

      My second one launched a week ago , part 2 , closes today actually , only way you can find it would be to view my recent posts.

      Ry
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  • Profile picture of the author maricelu
    Hey Cbizweb,

    Keep up the good work.

    Related to the actual strategy, I personally own such a site and all that I can say is that you'll never get what you expected, and believe me, this is a great thing. For example, I was targeting a small local keyphrase consisting of 4 keywords with an exact match domain. I tried to rank well for the keyphrase and I did actually but I was not actually receiving that much of traffic as I was getting from broad keywords. An interesting thing is that once you target a small keyword, you'll then get searches from other keywords which you have never been thinking of. And, instead of getting lots of untargetted traffic, you'll get specific searches from people who are in need of a product or service. So, do your best at optimising the site, put some content, make it look nice and simple, have clear CTA points, include some offers, etc.

    Marcel
    Signature

    I have no signature.

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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by maricelu View Post

      Hey Cbizweb,

      Keep up the good work.

      Related to the actual strategy, I personally own such a site and all that I can say is that you'll never get what you expected, and believe me, this is a great thing. For example, I was targeting a small local keyphrase consisting of 4 keywords with an exact match domain. I tried to rank well for the keyphrase and I did actually but I was not actually receiving that much of traffic as I was getting from broad keywords. An interesting thing is that once you target a small keyword, you'll then get searches from other keywords which you have never been thinking of. And, instead of getting lots of untargetted traffic, you'll get specific searches from people who are in need of a product or service. So, do your best at optimising the site, put some content, make it look nice and simple, have clear CTA points, include some offers, etc.

      Marcel
      This likely has a lot to do with decent content on your site, it's amazing the traffic you can get with good content as the search engines really do a good job of sending you traffic based off that content for some rather unpredictable keyword combos such as "where can I find a cheap reliable (enter niche) in Denver". I mean who is going to optimize for something like that .

      So I agree with everything you just said and I constantly look for ways to improve my sites to be cleaner and always remember the old 'K.I.S.S.' principle in sales. (keep it simple stupid for those who don't know it)

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
    I received this question via PM and thought the answer should be added to the thread.

    Originally Posted by maricelu

    Hello Cbizweb,

    I wanted to thank you for your great thread on rental sites. I've been doing something similar and I can say that it has a lot of potential, I already shared my experience on your thread.

    I am interested what kind of domain names do you have for your sites? Maybe not real examples of your sites but something similar. At this moment I only target small keywords which get me something near 10 calls per month for a (niche removed), but I do want to setup an additional site for them and target bigger keywords.

    Thank you, Marcel
    My pleasure, I remember wishing someone had shared something similar when I first started, then saw people bitching on Dan's thread so honestly got sorta of angry at those lazy people. That was my mindset when I posted it lol.

    Clearly your not lazy, I took a look at your site building WSO in your sig they look pretty decent, you will do well.

    To your question though, I failed on the first round a bit as I was afraid to compete with the top exact search terms. So lets say the top term in a niche kicked out 500 searched a month, the term I went for and subsequently got the EMD for was the 110 a month searched one. While this does work to get you ranked better for that term, I found the traffic was lower than expected.

    Then I optimized the site a bit for the more competitive keywords and was amazed how easily I moved up on those better terms. So that's when I decided you should not be afraid of going against the other guys for the top terms as long as it is a local search, and you can learn a lot from Market Samurai on the top 10 ahead of time to see if you could easily overtake them or not.

    End result, I like to rank for every highly searched term in the niche. However, I use market Samurai SEO sections to take a deep look into the the sites onto the first page Prior to domain name shopping. I will essentially try to put together the highest searched term with the easiest competition, path of least resistance stuff. Then I will go figure out an exact match domain around that decided term .com, .net, or .org.

    I do not think you need to go setting up more EMD's for that client of yours, simply optimize the site you already have for the other keywords, do a little backlinking on some of the other anchor text, and you may just surprise yourself how well you can rank for terms that are not in your EMD.

    There is nothing really private in here except for your niche and I will delete that, so I am going to share this PM in the thread if that is ok as I think it can help others.

    On a side note what is the average ticket/profit margin for your niche there, knowing that will help you a great deal in figuring out what a goal amount of calls should be.

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      Hey Chris,

      I think I derailed you from my own questions by my opening statements of my first post. If you don't want to answer these questions or don't have a strategy, just let me know, but I was wondering:

      How do you determine what businesses to give your free leads at first to?

      Do bigger companies or smaller companies seem to appreciate them more (appreciation being shown by later buying them from you)?

      How do you know who to trust to take care of your leads and not just scam people?

      Thanks, and I appreciate your time and sharing of your experiences,
      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by umc View Post

        Hey Chris,

        I think I derailed you from my own questions by my opening statements of my first post. If you don't want to answer these questions or don't have a strategy, just let me know, but I was wondering:

        How do you determine what businesses to give your free leads at first to?

        Do bigger companies or smaller companies seem to appreciate them more (appreciation being shown by later buying them from you)?

        How do you know who to trust to take care of your leads and not just scam people?

        Thanks, and I appreciate your time and sharing of your experiences,
        Mike
        Ahh sorry I was responding to a few so I missed the rest of the post.

        I scrape my service company numbers usually from YP, and generally go for the smaller clients for the free leads, but only because I am more likely to get an owner on the phone there (more likely closeable), nothing is wrong with selling big companies though, it's just harder to get through to the decision makers. I find a much higher closing ratio on businesses that I can get right on the phone with the owner rather than first a receptionist or something, so they get my free leads, but for no more than a week or so.

        Also I do love to call people who are already paying for Adwords etc, as they are at least showing open mindedness to generating business via the 'interwebs'. Another key point is I do prefer they are a company with some good reviews posted somewhere, I think over the long term those reviews will affect my site leased to them as I do intend to ad reviews to my leased sites. I wont turn away someone with lesser reviews but they will not be who I call to give free leads to.

        There really is no way to know who to trust, I just take a chance there. Give 2-3 leads over a week or so, and then close them. If my site is going strong right off the bat I will just flat out telemarket one by one down the list until it sells, it does not take long. If after a few good leads the owner doesn't seem to be excited about your offering, stop wasting time with them, they are just trying to get free money from you. I can usually read that type of person though.

        Key is to just not waste any time Umc... None of this work takes too much time, but when you have to do so many things for so many sites ongoing, that time overall can add up. Outsource what you can in most aspects of the business, but when it comes time to call businesses personally I do not think you should outsource that. Don't waste too much time deciding over who to call, just start calling it's a numbers game for the most part. That is where I think you contain the most power in beginning to build a relationship long term, instead of them looking at you as an impersonal advertising company if you used someone in Philippines or something to call.

        Hope that answers more what you asked. Just remember though at some point you need to go for the Close, Ask for the Sale. They are usually not going to ask you. You may be shocked how many yeses you get just by asking at the right time.

        Chris

        ps. Leased three more sites since I first posted this thread, including my first $497/month site (yay)
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill D.
          Chris (and everyone else),

          Thanks for sharing your expertise. It has helped me with some local business ideas I've been working on. I'll come back and share when I get this up and rolling and get results.

          Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author jtooder
    Awesome thread, very insightful.

    Was wondering how detailed are the captured leads? Is it mild interest or are the forms thorough enough to tell the Company what the visitor is interested in?

    Trying to understand the quality of leads required with this model.

    JT
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by jtooder View Post

      Awesome thread, very insightful.

      Was wondering how detailed are the captured leads? Is it mild interest or are the forms thorough enough to tell the Company what the visitor is interested in?

      Trying to understand the quality of leads required with this model.

      JT
      The captured leads are usually hot and ready for business, as the entire site is a call to action basically. Sure there are some tire kickers quote shopping etc., but most are ready to buy whatever the service is. However, most of the people that are truly ready to buy just call the number instead of typing the contact form.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    Hi Chris,

    Here's another question I thought of:

    What is your call to action?

    Since you aren't promoting a particular company's "brand", what are you promoting aside from, let's say "roofing"?

    Do you offer a discount if they call NOW? If so, I guess you would have to get that approved first? Or do you maybe offer an educational product ala Joe Polish and his consumer guides if they call or sign up on an email list?

    Just wondering what the hook is. It is great to get a site ranked, and to put it in front of people in classifieds and such, but what makes people call your ad over the others out there? People usually call based on some promise of a better price, better service, maybe a niche in an industry that they need, a better experience, better guarantee, etc. What types of things do you use?

    Thanks again,
    Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Great quesion. I'd like to know some info on this as well.


      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      Hi Chris,

      Here's another question I thought of:

      What is your call to action?

      Since you aren't promoting a particular company's "brand", what are you promoting aside from, let's say "roofing"?

      Do you offer a discount if they call NOW? If so, I guess you would have to get that approved first? Or do you maybe offer an educational product ala Joe Polish and his consumer guides if they call or sign up on an email list?

      Just wondering what the hook is. It is great to get a site ranked, and to put it in front of people in classifieds and such, but what makes people call your ad over the others out there? People usually call based on some promise of a better price, better service, maybe a niche in an industry that they need, a better experience, better guarantee, etc. What types of things do you use?

      Thanks again,
      Mike
      Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      Hi Chris,

      Here's another question I thought of:

      What is your call to action?

      Since you aren't promoting a particular company's "brand", what are you promoting aside from, let's say "roofing"?

      Do you offer a discount if they call NOW? If so, I guess you would have to get that approved first? Or do you maybe offer an educational product ala Joe Polish and his consumer guides if they call or sign up on an email list?

      Just wondering what the hook is. It is great to get a site ranked, and to put it in front of people in classifieds and such, but what makes people call your ad over the others out there? People usually call based on some promise of a better price, better service, maybe a niche in an industry that they need, a better experience, better guarantee, etc. What types of things do you use?

      Thanks again,
      Mike
      Hey Mike and MrTrance,

      Sorry for the delayed response, I do not get to check in here every day, as I do more than just IM, busy days indeed.

      It really depends on the service the site is covering, but I usually look at other sites in the niche & city I am building a presence in to see what the top businesses in the area are pushing. In some cities it might be all about affordable pricing, in others it might be exceptional service, but it does seem to vary from town to town. I do tend to offer new customer discounts based on what I know of the average ticket or a % discount etc. if the customer mentions the site when they call, and other things I am experimenting with which I don't want to share right now.

      I have tried both with and without free guides etc, and to be honest my phone rings more without the guides, but I think that may be because of the niches I cover, I think customers finding my sites looking for the types of service niches I work with would have zero interest in a guide, they just want their issue addressed. More expensive more involved niches, like real estate or something might benefit more by something like that, but not my service niches.

      I make these sites look like an actual business website which once leased it will be, and once leased I even put some of the actual businesses photo's etc. on the site, but never mention the company name or logo etc. Once leased I do indeed tweak the content of the site to perfectly fit whatever the company leasing it does or does not do, including discounts.

      That is on the websites themselves, on the ad's I do offer ad type discounts that you might see in any publication in your community to try and stand out a bit, but I do not go crazy with it. All of which I clear with the buyer once I have the site leased so there are no surprises when they answer the phone. I really try to fit right in with the types of advertising competitors might do in that field/city. It seems to be working, as my clients are happy with the calls they are receiving.

      Hope that helps.

      Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author tempora
        Thank You for sharing Chris!

        Could You explain more about this moment:
        Originally Posted by cbizweb View Post

        ... and once leased I even put some of the actual businesses photo's etc. on the site, but never mention the company name or logo etc. ...
        This is not a first time in this thread You're accenting on this, but I'm not sure I understand real reasons:
        Why not putting company name & logo when site is leased?
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  • Profile picture of the author jspmedia
    "Also I will do rather continual classified type advertising in about 20 sources of course with proper anchors, "

    how do you post continual for each site in 20+ classified sites since you have close to 100 sites?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by jspmedia View Post

      "Also I will do rather continual classified type advertising in about 20 sources of course with proper anchors, "

      how do you post continual for each site in 20+ classified sites since you have close to 100 sites?
      I only do the large amount of classifieds on sites once they are leased. Prior to that I just do a couple basic ones, just enough to get the phone ringing and help with the ranking.

      I now have 28 leased sites, and after I lease each one I spend a few hours doing just that. Tweaking the site to fit the company that leased it more perfectly, and advertising the hell out of it, some paid ad's.

      No way would I go crazy advertising every site I am working on, the calls alone would drive me insane. I do just enough to help with initial exposure pre-lease, maybe 2-3 ad's. Then the site sits until my backlinking hits it and the ranking starts getting the phone to ring, which varies from weeks to months. I try to keep 15-20 sites completely sell ready ahead of me so I always have something to sell when I get in the mood to call businesses (let's face it that's the sucky part, telemarketing ).

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author AmarieP
    Thank you Chris for answering some of my questions. I was wondering do you target keywords with high competition in google adwords with low search results (100- 1,000) or do you stick with med to low competition keywords?
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  • Profile picture of the author rolltide
    can you give us an example of a script you use?
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  • Profile picture of the author maricelu
    Hello. I am looking to target high-end niches where a business owner can easily quote someone >$20 000. Then, I would want them to pay me 10-15 % of the actual sale. Do you guys consider something like this? I plan simply to get a Callfire number and record the calls so that I will have full control of what is going. Thoughts?
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    • Profile picture of the author AmarieP
      I still having trouble trying to pick a business to target. I have been stuck for 3 days. I don't know what I'm suppose to be looking for lol. I think I found a niche, the competition is low, but some the domains are a little older (some local and some national) and some only have a few backlink but others have about 500 and up. So, I don't know if I should target this group or not.

      Any help would be great!
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    • Profile picture of the author how2no
      Originally Posted by maricelu View Post

      Hello. I am looking to target high-end niches where a business owner can easily quote someone >$20 000. Then, I would want them to pay me 10-15 % of the actual sale. Do you guys consider something like this? I plan simply to get a Callfire number and record the calls so that I will have full control of what is going. Thoughts?
      Interesting idea. Maybe you could try this approach then report the results to the rest of us.
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  • Profile picture of the author jspmedia
    You said your sites are mostly one page setup..how do you target 10-20 KWs then?

    organic rank brings most calls?

    I built 7 sites last week..got own phone no. unique one page content and youtube video for each sites...
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  • Profile picture of the author rolltide
    can you give us an idea of the sales process you use?


    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author asiamaria
    Chris

    I have dabbled with site rentals before but i havent done enough to make it work.
    I work hard, trouble is Ive just been distracted by other stuff and not being obsessed with one stategy.

    I have till september to bring in $2500 a month recurring income or go get a real job.
    That i do not want to do. I want to create a better life for myself and my family and I believe IM and site rentals will give me the best chance of doing that.

    When I've done rental sites before I have only focused on one kw, bought the EMD and then had little traffic, so I can understand your earlier experiences. Some of those single kw's I was targeting only had 250 exact match searches per month.

    I really want to be able to make this work and bring in $2500 pm by september and want to make sure that I give myself the best chance of succeeding.

    I'm just looking for a little direction to help me.

    My dilemma is picking a niche that has high ticket transactions and that has enough searches.
    Deciding on how many sites I should do to get the required amount.
    How to structure my pages (this always confuses me!)
    What monthly search vol should be my target

    I am doing this full time at the moment so I can put in at least 10 hours a day.

    Appreciate your comments...

    Lee

    Have a great day
    Matt
    UK
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  • Profile picture of the author luke1213
    Great post. This has cleared up a lot of issues I had trouble comprehending when it came to leasing a site.

    I do have a couple of questions though.

    When doing kw research for a local term, how do you structure your kw research?
    Let's take plumbers for example. Does your kw research have the city in the search term when trying to determine an EMD for that particular niche? For example, if you were researching the kw phrase "plumbers", do you include the city or area in your kw research? Example: "plumbers in (specific city)".

    Once again, thanks for the post.
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  • Profile picture of the author je9265
    Have you find your site rankings slip with Googles new changes?
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    • Profile picture of the author asiamaria
      Hi Chris hows things going?

      Have you managed to achieve your targets?

      Would be interesting to get an update from you.

      Could do with a little inspiration!

      Matt Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author fallingdown101
    interesting story !!!
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    • Profile picture of the author HassanAjmal
      I'd like to know how Chris is doing
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by HassanAjmal View Post

        I'd like to know how Chris is doing
        I apologize for not continuing to update this thread, I have never really been an avid continuous poster on forums, and not long after I posted this thread the workload really overcame me for several months to where free time was extremely rare lol.

        Anyway for a quick update, I am doing extremely well, I have over 50 monthly paying clients right now smallest being $250 or so a month, highest is a single $3000/mo client, but most are in the 3-500 range monthly. Lately I have been working more and more on outsourcing bits of ongoing work as I have found that scaling up can be difficult without it.

        I go out of my way to make sure each client is getting a certain amount of calls monthly if they dwindle I will take extra steps (ppc, paid ad's etc. - within the profit margin for that client of course) to ensure I am always over-delivering what I promised them to begin with. This quality control I feel is what sets me apart from a lot of advertising these businesses are pitched. However, this same quality control is what slows the scalability as it's difficult to outsource that ya know.

        Answering someone's earlier question, Google changes affected me slightly on a few sites sure but overall not too much since I started in June diversifying even more so that organic Google searches did not exceed 20-25% of where the customers found my client.

        I bet I am doing too much for too little money per client but frankly I don't care, they are happy and I am netting very well per client every month. I so far have only lost one client due to retirement.

        If you are doing site rental/lead gen yourself & need additional inspiration, let me just say to commit 110% and stop fooling with 7 different things at once, you will be surprised what you can accomplish!

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author shockwave
          Originally Posted by cbizweb View Post

          I apologize for not continuing to update this thread, I have never really been an avid continuous poster on forums, and not long after I posted this thread the workload really overcame me for several months to where free time was extremely rare lol.

          Anyway for a quick update, I am doing extremely well, I have over 50 monthly paying clients right now smallest being $250 or so a month, highest is a single $3000/mo client, but most are in the 3-500 range monthly. Lately I have been working more and more on outsourcing bits of ongoing work as I have found that scaling up can be difficult without it.

          I go out of my way to make sure each client is getting a certain amount of calls monthly if they dwindle I will take extra steps (ppc, paid ad's etc. - within the profit margin for that client of course) to ensure I am always over-delivering what I promised them to begin with. This quality control I feel is what sets me apart from a lot of advertising these businesses are pitched. However, this same quality control is what slows the scalability as it's difficult to outsource that ya know.

          Answering someone's earlier question, Google changes affected me slightly on a few sites sure but overall not too much since I started in June diversifying even more so that organic Google searches did not exceed 20-25% of where the customers found my client.

          I bet I am doing too much for too little money per client but frankly I don't care, they are happy and I am netting very well per client every month. I so far have only lost one client due to retirement.

          If you are doing site rental/lead gen yourself & need additional inspiration, let me just say to commit 110% and stop fooling with 7 different things at once, you will be surprised what you can accomplish!

          Chris
          Hi Chris,

          I'm curious how much of your time is spent actually finding companies to rent out your websites/leads? That is the biggest challenge in my book.

          Can you share your method of finding a qualified business that is willing to spend money on renting the site?
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          • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
            Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

            Hi Chris,

            I'm curious how much of your time is spent actually finding companies to rent out your websites/leads? That is the biggest challenge in my book.

            Can you share your method of finding a qualified business that is willing to spend money on renting the site?
            Finding companies is not hard at all I just scrape the yp.com (using yellabot) in a few cities & niches I have properties ready to go for, and spend maybe 2-4 hours a day calling for a week or so until I get a hold of owners. The closing ratio is really pretty high, if not sold on the spot, it's closed over the next few days up to a week worst case. Usually after a typical week like that it nets 3-5 sales, then I spend the next week doing nothing but completing build out for those clients, including ad campaigns, ppc, video's, etc. I have 5-10 tracking numbers (phone dot com) per client so I always know what is working where. Once those 3-5 clients are completed I spend a few days doing what I can to advance my business a bit, learn new tricks etc. (always be learning!), take a day or two off to fart around town then start that process again netting usually 6-8 clients a month except the months I slack off on calling.

            It all sounds simple I know, but for me the hardest part is just finding the motivation to 'Start' the calling each calling day because frankly it's the only part of the business I hate, telemarketing. Funny part is though I hate the calling, but I LOVE talking to the owners about their business & closing deals, selling is actually my primary skill, I just hate all the BS calling to get to those owners . I can't speak for others here but if I get a receptionist I just tell them sorry wrong number, mark it with an 'R' in my call log, and keep calling until I get owners on the phone, once the owner is on the line, the closing ratio is very good. If I did not do that I'd waste 90% of my calling time with the gatekeepers, and it's just not worth it when their are plenty of owners who answer the phone, maybe that does not apply to all businesses but I have not run into one yet where it doesn't.

            As for companies 'Willing to spend money' as you put it, almost all of them will if they are confident to profit from it (confidence that comes from you), have confidence in what you are doing as they can tell over the phone if you believe in it yourself or not, never rely on traffic from just one source (ie Google), and when you do make a sale 'OVER DELIVER ALWAYS" and not only will they stay with you, but even refer friends/relatives in other fields giving you less telemarketing to do! You would be shocked how easy it is to sell when you believe in what you are doing will honestly help them, most people are selling scared or desperate and it shows in their voice.

            On last thing, while I am speaking to someone I am scouring the internet for everything on that company so as I am talking to them I can get a clear idea of what they are doing already, helps me qualify much more as well as close the deal easier. You will not sell them on the 1st call every time mainly since they get so many calls you often need to build trust, but if not the same day/call then usually can earn their trust within 2-3 days. However, if someone strings you along, don't burn the bridge but just let 'em go and get someone else, your time IS your money after all.

            Hope some of this helps, pretty long winded sorry about that.

            Chris
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            • Profile picture of the author Marc2008
              Hi Chris.

              Awesome thread you got going here. I bookmarked it and have been following it for a while.

              My question is, when you first got started, how much money did you invest into your rental/ lead gen site business, and how many did you start with? I mean money for themes, linkbuilding, content and phone lines for all your sites and etc.

              Also, you say don't just limit yourself to SEO for leads. I agree with that, but what else do you do? I know you mentioned online classified ads sites - like Craigslist, Backpage and etc. But what else do you do besides those two things to diversify your lead funnels and not just focus on SEO for traffic and leads?
              I think you possibly mentioned offline newspaper ads? If so, say you have a plumbing client, do you run ads in the local papers to attract plumbing leads/customers? Just trying to get a feel for what else you do to diversify. Oh, I think you also mentioned Google adwords PPC, which is cool, but it's something I can't do.

              And how do you take payments on all 70 clients!? And have you ever had to deal with chargebacks?

              Thanks
              Marc
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              • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
                Originally Posted by Marc2008 View Post

                Hi Chris.

                Awesome thread you got going here. I bookmarked it and have been following it for a while.

                My question is, when you first got started, how much money did you invest into your rental/ lead gen site business, and how many did you start with? I mean money for themes, linkbuilding, content and phone lines for all your sites and etc.

                Also, you say don't just limit yourself to SEO for leads. I agree with that, but what else do you do? I know you mentioned online classified ads sites - like Craigslist, Backpage and etc. But what else do you do besides those two things to diversify your lead funnels and not just focus on SEO for traffic and leads?
                I think you possibly mentioned offline newspaper ads? If so, say you have a plumbing client, do you run ads in the local papers to attract plumbing leads/customers? Just trying to get a feel for what else you do to diversify. Oh, I think you also mentioned Google adwords PPC, which is cool, but it's something I can't do.

                And how do you take payments on all 70 clients!? And have you ever had to deal with chargebacks?

                Thanks
                Marc
                Marc,

                I think between all the licenses I bought, annual this and that, I likely spent an initial $1200 or so to get to a point where I was ready to go. Had I known what I know now that easily would have been just a couple hundred, but I'm sure many would say that about their own business.

                There are only so many things you can really do right? or at least as far as I know of. Search engine generated leads via SEO, PPC Generated leads with Goofle (misspelled on purpose)-Bing-Others, online free classifieds, online paid classifieds (not always better than free either), Goofle Places, Yahoo local, offline ad's, mobile sites, maybe I am crazy but I consider mobile it's own method currently (worth tracking separately), video's, and offline ad's. I do not necessarily do every method with every client, in fact there are quite a few clients receiving more than enough leads from just a couple of them. However, I track all of my customer's calls very closely, and if I have a niche in a certain city that needs more ammo, then I add what is needed ya know? All kept well within the client's fee structure, of course, so that I bring a certain minimum profit per client. Maintaining the client is my #1 objective always, and this is done simple by one thing, constant over delivery of what I promised them to begin with.

                As for payments I use Chargify with a gateway of Authorize.net & a merchant account (in fact opening a 2nd merchant acct now just to be safe). I simply love Chargify, it's a perfect fit for any recurring payments for me. I have not had any charge-backs yet, remember... Over-delivery!

                Hope this helps.

                -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author brik2500
    Great post! I will read it again later...
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  • Profile picture of the author jspmedia
    so whats other traffics sources are you using for lead gen? You said only 20% is from Google organic..can you share?

    also why do you use several phone # on one client? tracking which source works best?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by jspmedia View Post

      so whats other traffics sources are you using for lead gen? You said only 20% is from Google organic..can you share?

      also why do you use several phone # on one client? tracking which source works best?
      I answered the sources a bit in the last response. As for the multiple numbers it's so I can track the response from each of those sources, cut what does not work and accelerate on what does. I use Phone dot com for my numbers, it's stupid cheap per number.

      -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author malachiteIM
    Hi Chris,
    Great thread. Your earlier postings inspired me to this business model, so thanks a lot for that!

    A question -do you telemarket after your site gets to page one of google for local searches or is it OK to market if its not made it there yet (as you seem to have confidence in other forms of traffic that can generate leads)?

    Also, I have a site that is ranked #3, page one for several local kws, but gets very few calls. I don't feel comfortable renting it out yet and probably need to diversify out of organic seo as well so as to bump up the call volume.

    Do you wait to get a certain number of leads from organic searches before renting out a site?

    Thanks, David
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Originally Posted by malachiteIM View Post

      Hi Chris,
      Great thread. Your earlier postings inspired me to this business model, so thanks a lot for that!

      A question -do you telemarket after your site gets to page one of google for local searches or is it OK to market if its not made it there yet (as you seem to have confidence in other forms of traffic that can generate leads)?

      Also, I have a site that is ranked #3, page one for several local kws, but gets very few calls. I don't feel comfortable renting it out yet and probably need to diversify out of organic seo as well so as to bump up the call volume.

      Do you wait to get a certain number of leads from organic searches before renting out a site?

      Thanks, David
      Chris,

      Could we get your feedback on this?
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

        Chris,

        Could we get your feedback on this?
        See the previous post I was answering that post I think when you asked about it.

        Night guys... Whiskey, Cigar, Sleep in that order, time to wrap the week up.

        -Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author malachiteIM
          Thanks Chris for the detailed reply. 'Multiple lead funnels' is the key, as you say. More work, but sets a firm foundation for the future instead of relying solely on scroogle.
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        • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
          Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

          See the previous post I was answering that post I think when you asked about it.

          Night guys... Whiskey, Cigar, Sleep in that order, time to wrap the week up.

          -Chris
          Hey Chris thanks for the update and answes. I did have a few questions for you.

          1. When you at first let those calls go to voicemail do you have a prerecorded message on there or some generic message like "thanks for contacting us please leave us your name and message and we will get back to you shortly"...something along those lines?

          2. With your system you charge a flat fee each month...how do you determine this figure? With Service Magic they harge their customers like a plumber $50 for lead that comes in (which is also shared with 3-4 other plumbers as well). So say your plumber site is averaging 15 calls a month would you then try to set that fee at $750/mo since whichever plumber that will be getting those leads would be exclusive unlike SM if they are being charged the same $50 per lead, but also that lead is not exclusive.

          Have you thought about just setting a per call fee where they get charged a $50 rate per call that comes in to them that lasts at least 60 seconds and then at the end of each month you invoice them the number of calls they received (by getting your call stats from your tracking company). I guess if you have a good sense of the number of calls the site gets then you can set the flat fee as well, but if some months they are getting more calls aren't losing out on some fees there by doing flat fee?

          3. When you do get a business onboard and do some customization of site for that business you still do not put up their actual name, logo, address, etc on the site correct? Just fine tune to the exact services they do and promotions/deals that they want to offer on the site for when customers call?

          4. When you are contacting for businesses to buy leads from you do you let them know you have a site that is on top of Google, generating this number of visitors and calls, etc.. or do you just say I can get you this many calls a month from customers that need your service and it will be $XXX a month a month? You don't really talk about how you get them the calls (whether it is from the site, ads, etc..), but you try to sell them on the idea of getting them phone calls to their business and they don't need to know about SEO, Adwords, rankings, etc. Is that the way you approach this biz model?
          Signature

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          • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
            Hey guy's been a while, just catching up with some questions here, but it's a long post of quote's/responses sorry lol...

            Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

            1. When you at first let those calls go to voicemail do you have a prerecorded message on there or some generic message like "thanks for contacting us please leave us your name and message and we will get back to you shortly"...something along those lines?
            Yes I pre-record a generic greeting for that city/niche. I also give out fresh leads (no tricks, or obligation just give it to them) and call back to close those people I gave leads a few days after, I find it works better than any other icebreaker telemarketing wise =). Also I use those recordings to playback to skeptical business owners when I am closing them, it pretty much kills all skepticism right there.

            Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

            2. With your system you charge a flat fee each month...how do you determine this figure? With Service Magic they harge their customers like a plumber $50 for lead that comes in (which is also shared with 3-4 other plumbers as well). So say your plumber site is averaging 15 calls a month would you then try to set that fee at $750/mo since whichever plumber that will be getting those leads would be exclusive unlike SM if they are being charged the same $50 per lead, but also that lead is not exclusive.

            Have you thought about just setting a per call fee where they get charged a $50 rate per call that comes in to them that lasts at least 60 seconds and then at the end of each month you invoice them the number of calls they received (by getting your call stats from your tracking company). I guess if you have a good sense of the number of calls the site gets then you can set the flat fee as well, but if some months they are getting more calls aren't losing out on some fees there by doing flat fee?
            There really is no 'Right' or 'Wrong' way to price this, there are so many ways it can be done, several you just mentioned. As for me I price my clients between $297 & 797 flat rate a month now depending on the niche, average ticket in that niche (which I determine from online sources as well as asking contractors), and how many leads I generate monthly for that niche on average.

            I will likely explore a per deal kick in the future for very high average ticket clients, but otherwise I am very happy with the flat rate setup. Am I losing out when I over-deliver calls every month, sure I likely am. However, I simply do not want to deal with any commission related admin that takes away my most precious resource "Time". Flat rate + over delivery gives me excellent piece of mind that I can count on that recurring income month after month after month.

            Don't get me wrong here, I think it is important to get all your leads are worth, but I think there is a fine line, when you get a bit too greedy you may find yourself with the occasional client cancellation you may otherwise not deal with ever.

            Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

            3. When you do get a business onboard and do some customization of site for that business you still do not put up their actual name, logo, address, etc on the site correct? Just fine tune to the exact services they do and promotions/deals that they want to offer on the site for when customers call?
            Good question. I used to do not customize the campaign with their logo's & name when I first started as I was unsure on cancellation rates etc. Honestly though, I found I never got a cancellation, at all. Once I realized that, I did indeed start customizing the site to the client, with all their logo's, pictures, services, slogans, coupons, everything right after they get on board. So no I no longer do it that way.

            Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

            4. When you are contacting for businesses to buy leads from you do you let them know you have a site that is on top of Google, generating this number of visitors and calls, etc.. or do you just say I can get you this many calls a month from customers that need your service and it will be a month a month? You don't really talk about how you get them the calls (whether it is from the site, ads, etc..), but you try to sell them on the idea of getting them phone calls to their business and they don't need to know about SEO, Adwords, rankings, etc. Is that the way you approach this biz model?
            I never mention 'Ranking' or '1st page' type things, even if it's #1, because I don't want something changing at Google to change anything about what I sold the guy/gal. I let them know I have XX number of calls a week/month being generated from a website I own. I then focus solely on selling those calls/leads, site is on back burner, and I do mention the calls will go a bit higher once they sign on as I will add other sources for leads (minor ppc, classifieds, video, you name it.). Once the client is closed I add whatever other necessary lead funnels I think that city/niche needs to over-delivery by about 25-35% what I promised them and just do it.

            Originally Posted by dreamogul View Post

            great info
            Thank you thank you, Paying it forward feels great ya know!

            Originally Posted by bobmcalister View Post

            excellent thread and sharing...thanks for all your efforts . continued good fortune to you
            Thank you indeed. I wish your efforts success as well!

            Originally Posted by BillyParadise View Post

            hadn't heard of chargify - that may be a better solution than what I use and have been recommending (whmcs) for people who don't have hosting as part of their service offerings. I'll be going through their site more carefully today - thanks for the link!
            There are quite a few great options for billing, and I am sure Chargify is not the cheapest, but man it's damn perfect for me, I love the Chargify/Authorize.Net/Merchant Account combo. I know there are several along the same lines as them just as good. The important thing is to get a merchant account/recurring management company and just stay away from PayPal for this model, PayPal will eventually sting you one way or the other.

            Originally Posted by CurtisSWN View Post

            In the original post you mentioned "Dan's WSO" I was just wondering which one that was. Currently gleaning this thread.........
            I think Dr. Dan's was Google Love or something. I did not initially learn the business model from it although he did teach it well enough, but he did give me some idea's I ran with for sure. According to Huskerdarren's reply to you maybe the WSO is not around anymore - I have no clue sorry.

            Originally Posted by soontobefishing View Post

            Dr.Dan's Wso is called Google Love 2.0 I have to say it's very good stuff. I'm a client of theirs and the info is so step by step with pics/video etc it really makes it easy to follow along. Just search in Wso google love 2.0
            There ya go Curtis =)

            Originally Posted by waterprism View Post

            This is a great thread. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, everyone.

            It seems the OP, Chris, was already at a pretty advanced level when he started bringing in his own really clever and ethical twists to offline leasing.

            Which course would you suggest to give one a really good grounding in offline leasing so that one can start to bring in one's own spin? Is the Google Love 2.0 course mentioned in this thread still good? I've gone through the Google Love 2.0 thread, and it seems opinion is mostly good, but a little mixed here and there. It also seems, from that thread, that the course focuses on pretty easy to rank terms, whereas Chris seems to be aiming for loftier keyword targets. Someone in the thread mentioned that the course maybe didn't take into account Penguin and Panda (though I'm not sure about that). That said, would Google Love 2.0 be a good place to start, even a year after its release, or are there other offline leasing courses that you guys might also recommend?

            Thanks, Chris, if you're still in this thread, and thanks, guys.
            Glad I could be of help waterprism!

            Google love as well as many other WSO's I am sure teach the business well enough, but don't get hung up on needing any one WSO about Lead gen/ or site rental/leasing. Just get a good grasp on what the model is, then figure out the area you want to exploit, plan how to do it, then 'Execute'. Learn from as many sources as you can but do not copy, make everything your own way. Treat it as a business (because it is!), be in control of it all.

            I go for keywords of all levels of competitiveness, long and short. I do indeed keep up to date with all the Penguin, Panda updating but keep in mind my lead gen does not entirely depend on Scroogle rankings to begin with, Multiple Lead Funnels is where it's at. Not sure on other offline leasing WSO's , maybe someone here could point a few out.
            ____________________________________

            I appreciate all the feedback on how you guys are doing also and am very happy to have been of help. In response to some emails I received the answer is 'NO' I have no intention of putting out any sort of WSO. I do very well without it in the lead gen/site rental business and do not want anything new that could eat into what little free time I have. Time becomes your number one focus as anyone who has made it past a certain point in scaling up can surely attest. In addition, I think there is enough info out there already that you do not need me adding to it.

            6am golf, I need to get some sleep, later folks!
            -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by malachiteIM View Post

      Hi Chris,
      Great thread. Your earlier postings inspired me to this business model, so thanks a lot for that!

      A question -do you telemarket after your site gets to page one of google for local searches or is it OK to market if its not made it there yet (as you seem to have confidence in other forms of traffic that can generate leads)?

      Also, I have a site that is ranked #3, page one for several local kws, but gets very few calls. I don't feel comfortable renting it out yet and probably need to diversify out of organic seo as well so as to bump up the call volume.

      Do you wait to get a certain number of leads from organic searches before renting out a site?

      Thanks, David
      David,

      Great questions.

      When I very first started I thought ranking was everything, but what does ranking really mean to the Hvac guy, or the electrician, the roofer, the painter, locksmith, or plumber... zilch. All they care about is that phone ringing & their cost per call/lead. Now the other side of things is you know you need fairly ok rankings to get the calls, but that does not always need to come from the most obvious keywords. Just get yourself ranked well enough for even some of the mediocre keywords and the phone will start ringing. Also, it's a bit odd... I have some sites ranking # 14 bringing in more calls than sites ranked #4, I still cannot figure it out honestly.

      Anyway back to your question, I do not care where it is ranked, I telemarket & sell the leads for that niche/city once it has been receiving 3 consecutive weeks of calls, even if it's just a 3-4 calls a week. That's 12-15 leads a month, what I personally consider the minimum level of acceptable monthly performance for a client for the flat fee I charge them, but I can close a client on 12-15 calls a month no sweat in every service niche I have tried so far. Now once I sell the 'Lead Gen', of course I will add whatever additional lead sources I see fit for that site/city to get the calls to that over-delivery stage. Do not promise high numbers for your clients, it makes it far easier for you to let them down. On the other hand if you confidently sell a client on lower numbers, say 20 calls a month, and you give them 40-50, how likely you think that customer stays with you? Under promise - over-deliver, enjoy life!

      Remember, these companies are being let down daily by overpaying versus results with places like YP, Service Magic, BBB, Yelp, Adwords, [ insert every other company here ]. You come along & offer them something more personal, for less, and deliver more than the others by far = long term client.

      Also David, earlier notice I said "once I sell the 'Lead Gen'", and I did NOT say once I sell or lease the 'WebSite'. I keep the website in the background, I am selling these people leads, not a ranking. If you focus on the lead gen the ranks for certain keywords never become an issue with them. Just be sure your sites have strong calls to action and you rank well for at lease a few of the medium searched phrases for your local niche and the customers will call. Sell your Lead gen with confidence then spend a % of profits on helping it along (classifieds, video's, ppc, backpage, craigslist, whatever really). Do not rely entirely on ANY one entity such as SEO etc, you want 'Multiple lead funnels.' Therefore I would 'Not' sell a client yet if just relying on classifieds/ppc etc, I'd wait until the site got some calls on it's own first, or take a look why it is not already.

      Hope this helps...
      -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author dreamogul
    great info
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    "...All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible..."
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  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    excellent thread and sharing...thanks for all your efforts . continued good fortune to you
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  • Profile picture of the author BillyParadise
    hadn't heard of chargify - that may be a better solution than what I use and have been recommending (whmcs) for people who don't have hosting as part of their service offerings. I'll be going through their site more carefully today - thanks for the link!
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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisSWN
    In the original post you mentioned "Dan's WSO" I was just wondering which one that was. Currently gleaning this thread.........
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc2008
      Thanks for answering my question.

      But I was also wondering, how to you pick your profitable niches to go into? (Of course you do not have to give the ones you are in now.) Do you have niche and search criteria? Also, do you work in different states besides your own?

      thanks,
      Marc
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by Marc2008 View Post

        Thanks for answering my question.

        But I was also wondering, how to you pick your profitable niches to go into? (Of course you do not have to give the ones you are in now.) Do you have niche and search criteria? Also, do you work in different states besides your own?

        thanks,
        Marc
        Woops Sorry Marc, missed your question.

        I am not sure how others do it but when I look for a niche for lead gen I think of essentially any type of service related business, with a decent profit margin, that can be exploited on a local level with trackable lead generation, which is quite a lot of business types. Personally like contractor types, but really anything works from roofers to lawyers to realtors.

        As for the second question, you may be surprised to know I do not even work my own area lol. I work local area's all over the US and even now some in Canada. I do more scrutiny on the cities than I do the niche's, I like to have a mixture of population area's from as little as 50k into millions of people. I do believe though when you go under 100k you may need to go for some higher ticket niches simply to get enough calling traffic. However, I have seen others doing sites for 15-20k cities, maybe it works great, I would not know as I still have more cities available to me than I can handle over 100k. Between niches/cities, you will simply never EVER run out of options, or client potential.

        -Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Marc2008
          Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

          Woops Sorry Marc, missed your question.

          I am not sure how others do it but when I look for a niche for lead gen I think of essentially any type of service related business, with a decent profit margin, that can be exploited on a local level with trackable lead generation, which is quite a lot of business types. Personally like contractor types, but really anything works from roofers to lawyers to realtors.

          As for the second question, you may be surprised to know I do not even work my own area lol. I work local area's all over the US and even now some in Canada. I do more scrutiny on the cities than I do the niche's, I like to have a mixture of population area's from as little as 50k into millions of people. I do believe though when you go under 100k you may need to go for some higher ticket niches simply to get enough calling traffic. However, I have seen others doing sites for 15-20k cities, maybe it works great, I would not know as I still have more cities available to me than I can handle over 100k. Between niches/cities, you will simply never EVER run out of options, or client potential.

          -Chris
          Thanks for the answer, Chris. I and thankful for any and all of advice you give me.
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          • Profile picture of the author RoryF
            When you have got a site up and ranking in a firm position (calls are coming through) how would you go about selling this to businesses in that area? Do you guys pick up the phone, has anyone sold them through sending a direct mail piece out?
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            • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
              This is a great thread. Thanks for sharing all of this great information.

              I've been working on my lead generation business for 6 months now. I was glad to read that you didn't really begin to see success until 1 year into it.

              One problem I had in the beginning was building too many websites in a niche that was more competitive than I thought it would be. Another problem I ran into was building sites in cities that has less than 100k people.

              You also mentioned that you need to consider how far a contractor will go for a lead. I recently ran into this problem with a customer of mine. The leads I have coming in for him are 20 miles away and he isn't willing to travel that far.

              Some of my sites receive 10+ calls a month, but 75% of those calls are people who are trying to sell them something. So realistically some of those sites are only generating 2-3 real leads a month.

              Lead generation is definitely a tough business to get up and running, but it's sooooo easy to sell to someone once you get the leads coming in.
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              • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
                Originally Posted by davidjames42973 View Post

                This is a great thread. Thanks for sharing all of this great information.

                I've been working on my lead generation business for 6 months now. I was glad to read that you didn't really begin to see success until 1 year into it.

                One problem I had in the beginning was building too many websites in a niche that was more competitive than I thought it would be. Another problem I ran into was building sites in cities that has less than 100k people.

                You also mentioned that you need to consider how far a contractor will go for a lead. I recently ran into this problem with a customer of mine. The leads I have coming in for him are 20 miles away and he isn't willing to travel that far.

                Some of my sites receive 10+ calls a month, but 75% of those calls are people who are trying to sell them something. So realistically some of those sites are only generating 2-3 real leads a month.

                Lead generation is definitely a tough business to get up and running, but it's sooooo easy to sell to someone once you get the leads coming in.
                Do yourself a favor and be sure to have a master blacklist of solicitor phone numbers with whoever you are using for your virtual telephone numbers (I use Phone dot com, it's very easy to block callers with them). What I did is screen the first few seconds of the recorded calls every once in a while (I have someone doing it daily for me now), just to see if it was a potential customer for them or a solicitor. If it was a solicitation I would block that number from ever calling any of my clients ever again. There must be 60-80 calls a day between all of my accounts that are blocked every day because they are solicitors trying to call my clients but are on my black list, no exaggeration. Sometimes I see one solicitor call 20 of my clients in the same day, it's crazy. Too much of that crap getting through could possibly frustrate your client. I do everything I can to keep quality control under wraps.
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                • Profile picture of the author Pauli7143
                  Chris,

                  I have really enjoy you openness in this thread, Thank You.

                  I would not have thought of The Black List idea, that alone made it worth the last couple hours reading every post.

                  Thanks again,

                  Pauli


                  Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

                  Do yourself a favor and be sure to have a master blacklist of solicitor phone numbers with whoever you are using for your virtual telephone numbers (I use Phone dot com, it's very easy to block callers with them). What I did is screen the first few seconds of the recorded calls every once in a while (I have someone doing it daily for me now), just to see if it was a potential customer for them or a solicitor. If it was a solicitation I would block that number from ever calling any of my clients ever again. There must be 60-80 calls a day between all of my accounts that are blocked every day because they are solicitors trying to call my clients but are on my black list, no exaggeration. Sometimes I see one solicitor call 20 of my clients in the same day, it's crazy. Too much of that crap getting through could possibly frustrate your client. I do everything I can to keep quality control under wraps.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Powder_Skier
                    Wow - this is GREAT information to anyone interested in lead site rentals. In fact, I've copied all three pages to a folder because of the quality info here. Hopefully in a short time I can come back and post something useful.

                    Regards to all,
                    Maury
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                    • Profile picture of the author Scott Stevens
                      Chris, first of all, there's no questions from me in this post.

                      I've been struggling to sell websites/SEO for a while, and although I'm shifting some here and there, I'm finding it hard to convince biz owners of the value of having one. So I decided to go down the lead gen/broker route, as obviously, you're selling something that's already producing, so in theory, it's an easier sell.

                      I've been through, as far as I'm concerned, all the best Warrior threads on this model, and last year went through Dan's course, and Joe Troyer's course - both of which were excellent. I didn't pursue lead gen at that time. But the time is right now.

                      Hands down, this is one of the best threads on this model, and indeed, on ANYTHING on the forum. I've been through all the threads and added to the notes I got from the courses, and your thread has been particularly useful.

                      Anyone could go through your thread and build a 6 figure business, no doubts. All it would take is persistence and dedication. Chris, at this rate you'll be turning over $1Mil a year. Which used to be a lot of money.

                      Considering the effort you're putting into your business, hats off for coming back and making such elaborate and helpful replies to people's questions. True Warrior spirit.

                      Keep us posted when you have time.

                      Thanks again.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
              Originally Posted by RoryF View Post

              When you have got a site up and ranking in a firm position (calls are coming through) how would you go about selling this to businesses in that area? Do you guys pick up the phone, has anyone sold them through sending a direct mail piece out?
              Yeah we just pick up the phone using scraped YP.com numbers, it's pretty easy to lease the site/lead gen within a short amount of calls. I must admit I have never tried to sell leads through direct mail, sounds expensive to me but I have no basis to really comment on direct mail.

              Chris
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              • Profile picture of the author RoryF
                Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

                Yeah we just pick up the phone using scraped YP.com numbers, it's pretty easy to lease the site/lead gen within a short amount of calls. I must admit I have never tried to sell leads through direct mail, sounds expensive to me but I have no basis to really comment on direct mail.

                Chris
                Awesome probably best ringing up! I mean't creating a DM letter that could be sent to business owners selling the leasing of the site, not the actual leads themselves.

                Thanks
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                • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
                  Originally Posted by RoryF View Post

                  Awesome probably best ringing up! I mean't creating a DM letter that could be sent to business owners selling the leasing of the site, not the actual leads themselves.

                  Thanks
                  Aye I got your meaning Rory, just not sure how many you would have to send out to get response, a lot of it may just be trashed with junk mail. But if you are skilled in DM already I am sure you could get around that, I have zero experience in that dept.

                  Cheers folks, 6:30am tee time, still need to entirely wake up lol.
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                • Profile picture of the author YellowGreenMedia
                  Originally Posted by RoryF View Post

                  Awesome probably best ringing up! I mean't creating a DM letter that could be sent to business owners selling the leasing of the site, not the actual leads themselves.

                  Thanks
                  I have used DM for selling leads, i have to say that the results weren't as good as calling the business, i did sell the leads with DM, but i had quicker results with just calling the business and offer them 10 of my leads for free... when they had a taste of the quality of my leads the sale was basically done.

                  @Cashflowlife
                  Great thread you have here, nice look into another way to make $$$ with your lead gen sites, great job.

                  Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author Huskerdarren
      Originally Posted by CurtisSWN View Post

      In the original post you mentioned "Dan's WSO" I was just wondering which one that was. Currently gleaning this thread.........
      Dr. Dan's WSO is closed, but you can still buy a program about site rental by Jack Mize. Dan learned the technique from Jack Mize.
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    • Profile picture of the author soontobefishing
      Dr.Dan's Wso is called Google Love 2.0 I have to say it's very good stuff. I'm a client of theirs and the info is so step by step with pics/video etc it really makes it easy to follow along. Just search in Wso google love 2.0
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  • Profile picture of the author warrenonline
    This is a great thread. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, everyone.

    It seems the OP, Chris, was already at a pretty advanced level when he started bringing in his own really clever and ethical twists to offline leasing.

    Which course would you suggest to give one a really good grounding in offline leasing so that one can start to bring in one's own spin? Is the Google Love 2.0 course mentioned in this thread still good? I've gone through the Google Love 2.0 thread, and it seems opinion is mostly good, but a little mixed here and there. It also seems, from that thread, that the course focuses on pretty easy to rank terms, whereas Chris seems to be aiming for loftier keyword targets. Someone in the thread mentioned that the course maybe didn't take into account Penguin and Panda (though I'm not sure about that). That said, would Google Love 2.0 be a good place to start, even a year after its release, or are there other offline leasing courses that you guys might also recommend?

    Thanks, Chris, if you're still in this thread, and thanks, guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author warrenonline
    You the man, Chris. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author JSL Publishing
    Chris,

    Wow, really impressive... I'm going to take this to heart and check into this method. Thanks for the info.

    Jan

    Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

    I am posting this after reading several people have questions or complaints about site rentals, and also as a response to some people who have been giving Dan's system in his WSO thread a hard time, although I did not first learn this business from Dan. (this is not a pitch or review for Dan's wso or selling anything). If you wish to hear how I made it my current $6500 usd a month in 3 months read on, if you just want the advice skip past My Story and down to number 1.

    My Story-

    First let me start by telling you I am indeed making very good money in short order with site rentals, or as I like to say lead generation. As for prior experience I have loads of it in sales over the years, but zero IM, SEO, or website design experience before January 2012.

    I stumbled onto this 'rent a site' idea mid-January 2012 after seeing some crazy overpriced webinar on it, something tsunami, I forget exact name (they wanted $997). I began to do research as the concept seemed very valid, and I do enjoy talking with business owners.

    I gathered a lot up from various places including what I learned from the overpriced sales webinar, learned as much as I could about SEO (the real time sink), bought a bunch of domains after picking a niche, I chose a service business, started an LLC, opened a merchant account, and a virtual phone number account. *GO*

    I then started pumping out sites, surely a lot faster than I should have and in the end learned a lot from it (such as can't have dupe content etc, I had zero programming experience) and then re tweaked the ones I had first put up to fix that. Initially I was targeting some of the lower searched keywords in order to get ranked easier, but it did not take long for me to say to myself "Umm I am not getting any calls here, no way can I feel right about leasing a site that is not getting at least 15-20 calls a month".

    So I decided I had learned more about SEO by end of February and gave a go at adding the primary more competitive keywords for my niche in each city. So instead of getting a piece of 30-50 searches a month from the less competitive keywords, the keywords I was after combined were closer to 2k+ searches a month. I started to see decent results, the phone started to ring.

    That is when I stumbled onto Dan's WSO a few months ago, bought it and instead of relying on every step Dan walks you through (and he does a great job btw) I picked out the nice tidbits to add to what I had already learned on my own, including the one piece of education I felt made the WSO worth it, the ping.fm, pixelpipe, online classified ad parts (and now onlywire, hello.txt and others I use also, plus I place adds all over the place for my clients). You should use all the information you can find from all sources and put it all together, find what works for you. For me it was the webinar, forum postings here and elsewhere, Dan's wso, as well as a few pm's to people on this forum, MRomeo09 & EmmaPowell. Most importantly though you MUST have the desire and motivation to succeed, without out it all the info in the world will do you no good.

    I do prefer to set up a site, and get calls in a selected niche/city prior to trying to market the site, but I know some people do well with finding the client first, I just prefer it this way.

    Let me stop myself before I get side tracked here I could ramble all day... End result Now is this...

    I currently have 72 sites live, 50+ on 1st page of all engines, and have 22 live clients at $197-397 a month (I have been creeping up the price, depending on call count). I sign up on average 1-2 new clients a week and here is the key... I Wait until I have a Minimum 12 calls in one month for (service)(city).com BEFORE I try and sell it.

    So if you care to hear, my main advice is this ( I'm no expert btw)...

    1- If you are lazy, or not willing to put in a lot of work both in site development, and ongoing in client acquisition (telemarketing whatever)... Just friggin stop RIGHT now and go find something else to do, this business does not run itself. You get what you put into it!

    2- OWN the phone number.
    Set up a phone dot com, ring central, something. Use a local instead of a toll free for the area you are targeting. This way you can generate calls before you sell it and if the client leaves you, just re-rent it.

    3-
    Do not try to target just one keyword and get #1, #1 is nice for a rarely searched term, but trust me #1-7 for 20 WELL searched harder keywords will bring more organic traffic and that's what you need after all, Rank does NOT matter, CALLS do.

    4- Do not focus so much on the website with the client, focus on the calls. Let them hear some voice mails of the calls, even give them a lead or two for free. Proof is in the pudding, this simply closes deals for me, end of story. DO NOT LIE, if you are not getting calls yet PLEASE do everyone a favor and do not try to sell it yet.

    5- Deliver some value here, do not put up total crap websites, but they do not need to be 2000 page authority 'gems' either. Just put up ORIGINAL CONTENT on each one, and do not be stupid in the way you backlink it, balance things out, have good structure.

    6- Advertise the Service (not so much the website) along with your owned virtual telephone number (I like Phone dot com). This helps generate CALLS directly and takes away some of the reliance on Google, which lets face it, could change the entire game in one day if they wanted to, and have proven they love to change algorithms.

    Also after the site is rented, Continue to advertise every month, spend 10-15% of the money you are getting from the client to increase the service/number expose via ad's everywhere. It's worth the effort, you will retain clients.

    7- Build Relationships. Do not just treat your customers as a number, or a site. Build a long term lasting relationship with them, you will maintain very long term clients this way. Every one of my clients has my cell, and I would be happy to answer it. If something goes wrong with a site, tell them about it do not wait for them to tell you. Explain in English what you plan to do to fix it, don't panic. People buy YOU not a website, trust me on that.

    8- Diversify. Do not put all of your eggs in one basket, especially when a large part of why this business works is the organic search engine traffic. Do not dabble in 14 other things when you are starting this, but once you have it rolling, use your head man. Get into something new, one at a time until you have it down, that is different not dependent on Google so heavily. That way if one ay everything changes you still have a paycheck.

    9-
    Slow the F**K down... Rome was not built in a day. I had to tell myself this and am glad I did, take it easy and do it Right the first time. The site rental/lead gen business is not some get rich quick scheme, it is a genuine business. Funny thing is, if you do it slow and proper, within a year the you will be seeing very good money *Recurring*.


    There is likely more but this is what came off the top of my head, and the post is already too long *Sorry* lol. I hope this helps some of you that either may have doubted the model, or perhaps you are trying it without success. Treat this like a get rich quick tactic, and you will fail miserably, then come here to complain on warrior forum that it does not work Treat this like a real business, and you very likely will be rewarded with great success.

    Do not take any shortcuts!

    Good luck!
    Chris


    *** update 5-16-12, Had a nice run since posting this forum and leased some of my newest niche sites to several people at the 497/mo. and one at 697/mo as a try at a higher mark. Over 8k a month recurring now, shooting for my first goal. I hope you all are doing well also.
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    • Profile picture of the author ceonewbeginnings
      Originally Posted by JSL Publishing View Post

      Chris,

      Wow, really impressive... I'm going to take this to heart and check into this method. Thanks for the info.

      Jan
      Nice post! Thanks for sharing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Talltom1
    Hey Chris,
    This is an awesome thread, and I've spent quite a bit of time last night thoroughly reading through each post.

    I'm a bit surprised though, that no one mentioned, or asked about the contract that you have with your client renting the website.

    How are you handling that? I assume that you say something about 'no transfer of ownership' and the contract duration.

    Would you take a moment and tell us some details of how you are handling that?

    Tom
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by Talltom1 View Post

      Hey Chris,
      This is an awesome thread, and I've spent quite a bit of time last night thoroughly reading through each post.

      I'm a bit surprised though, that no one mentioned, or asked about the contract that you have with your client renting the website.

      How are you handling that? I assume that you say something about 'no transfer of ownership' and the contract duration.

      Would you take a moment and tell us some details of how you are handling that?

      Tom
      I actually do not have a contract, I simply overdeliver every month and nobody ever cancels, but I do pre-charge for the month. I may change that eventually though just because I think having a contract makes the portfolio 'sellable' at some point. However, I must say it makes closing the deal a breeze without a contract. I do ask people for at least 3 months to gain full traction wise, if they truly wanted to they could cancel after 30 days notice.

      I would not do no contract though unless you are certain you are delivering results, that is the key for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author FBN
    Don't know if anybody could share the best WP template you all have used?
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  • Profile picture of the author YellowGreenMedia
    I use Weaver II its free, its clean and simple to (re)design, you can also download it true the wordpress backend
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Stevens
      Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia View Post

      I use Weaver II its free, its clean and simple to (re)design, you can also download it true the wordpress backend
      Thanks YGM, nice share.

      I've seen a good many of your posts in this area, too, and you seem to be giving it a good go.

      Thanks for all the good tips regarding site-rental/lead gen.
      Signature

      Yours in prosperity,
      Skochy - The Musical Salesman

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  • Profile picture of the author Talltom1
    I wanted to add a little bit more to this awesome thread. The one aspect or approach that I truly appreciated about this business model is that there no promises, no selling 'blue sky', no hype. It's limited to the 'rubber-meets-the-road'. And as long as you are keeping your commitments, you'll have a client sending you money forever....

    One contribution that I wanted to make to the thread. The OP stated that he waited until his sales funnels were consistently kicking out 25-50 leads per month before he began the monthly billing process. Up until then, he would pass the incoming leads around to different firms and cultivate the relationship that way.

    I do it a bit differently. Almost simultaneously with building a new sales funnel in a new city, I solicit inquiries from interested clients for my sales funnel. I explain what's happening and that it may take 2-4 months to consistently generate sales leads every month, and that I don't begin the monthly billing until then.

    However....in the meantime, this funnel is kicking out sales leads, however sporadic, and instead of spending valuable time (of mine) looking for a place to send them, I establish a working relationship with a new client by collecting a non-refundable deposit (half of a regular monthly fee). This puts me in the position of tweaking the funnel to the client's unique sales requirements right at the very beginning of the process, and eliminates calling somebody to give away free leads before I get the thing up and running. I do explain, that after the deposit, there are no other fees until the system is at cruising altitude.

    Just an interesting side story....about 2 months ago, I had multiple people interested in one of my sales funnels that I was building for a specific city. I ended up with a bidding war on my hands.

    So, just a bit of a wrinkle to the OP's original business model that make things a bit more efficient for me.

    Tom
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Stevens
      Originally Posted by Talltom1 View Post

      I wanted to add a little bit more to this awesome thread. The one aspect or approach that I truly appreciated about this business model is that there no promises, no selling 'blue sky', no hype. It's limited to the 'rubber-meets-the-road'. And as long as you are keeping your commitments, you'll have a client sending you money forever....

      One contribution that I wanted to make to the thread. The OP stated that he waited until his sales funnels were consistently kicking out 25-50 leads per month before he began the monthly billing process. Up until then, he would pass the incoming leads around to different firms and cultivate the relationship that way.

      I do it a bit differently. Almost simultaneously with building a new sales funnel in a new city, I solicit inquiries from interested clients for my sales funnel. I explain what's happening and that it may take 2-4 months to consistently generate sales leads every month, and that I don't begin the monthly billing until then.

      However....in the meantime, this funnel is kicking out sales leads, however sporadic, and instead of spending valuable time (of mine) looking for a place to send them, I establish a working relationship with a new client by collecting a non-refundable deposit (half of a regular monthly fee). This puts me in the position of tweaking the funnel to the client's unique sales requirements right at the very beginning of the process, and eliminates calling somebody to give away free leads before I get the thing up and running. I do explain, that after the deposit, there are no other fees until the system is at cruising altitude.

      Just an interesting side story....about 2 months ago, I had multiple people interested in one of my sales funnels that I was building for a specific city. I ended up with a bidding war on my hands.

      So, just a bit of a wrinkle to the OP's original business model that make things a bit more efficient for me.

      Tom
      Hi Tom,

      Great share.

      And nice position to have a bidding war for your work - must have bumped-up your premium a nice bit.

      Good stuff.
      Signature

      Yours in prosperity,
      Skochy - The Musical Salesman

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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Great idea Talltom, I have thought about doing that before but never tried it, maybe I will give that a test run.

      Thanks for sharing.
      -Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
        @ Cashflowlife - So are you ranking the sites in Google with google places? or just regular search results?
        Signature

        “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.” ― Jordan Belfort

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    • Profile picture of the author MrJeff
      Originally Posted by Talltom1 View Post

      I do explain, that after the deposit, there are no other fees until the system is at cruising altitude.

      Tom
      What would you say is cruising altitude? How many leads per month?

      Thanks, Jeff
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      • Profile picture of the author Talltom1
        Originally Posted by MrJeff View Post

        What would you say is cruising altitude? How many leads per month?
        Actually, that's a terrific question. And the answer isn't something that you'd expect.

        Some of the target clients that I'm looking for are literally like a man dying of thirst in the desert. All they want is water, water, and more water, to the point that that can kill them.

        I have a client right now that's insisting he wants 30 leads per month minimum. And he admits he probably gets 2-3 sales leads per month.

        What he doesn't realize is the amount of time and resources each incoming phone call and sales prospect will place on his organization. The trouble is, that this too can kill their business. They are now so busy tending to the incoming sales leads they asked for that their own client deadlines get missed, promises to their clients aren't being kept, they need to hire another secretary, they need more office space, more office furniture, the new secretary isn't working out, we booked these new jobs but I'm still not making any money.....In his case I figured each new sales lead would require about 2 hours of his time - before he'd get the order. That's an additional 60 hours of work each month.

        So what I tell my new clients, is instead of insisting you want a minimum of new leads each month, let's just focus on getting you 3-5 new clients each month for the next 6 months. You'll be nicely busy, making some good money, going home at night and playing with the kids, and life will be good.

        And after a few weeks we will all know how many leads I need to send you each month in order for you to achieve those 3-5 new orders. Maybe its 10 new leads, maybe its 15 or 20. That's the point where we approach cruising altitude.

        Tom
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author relentlessaction
          Amazing post! I actually have about 40 domains that I was creating for rental but never followed through as they were unable to generate calls probably due to my inability to rank them enough. This great post has inspired me to start and focus exclusively on rental websites and start getting off my ass and calling local businesses to increase that monthly income.

          Once again, awesome post and thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Entertize
    This is a WSO! Thanks Chris for giving away all of this valuable information. Another person would have sold it! Much appreciated!
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by Entertize View Post

      This is a WSO! Thanks Chris for giving away all of this valuable information. Another person would have sold it! Much appreciated!
      My pleasure, I hope this thread has helped some of you reach your goals as it has mine. =)
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  • Profile picture of the author EmergencyMonkey
    Can someone explain to me, when setting up a rental site, let's say it's for a plumbing business, are you building it with generic plumbing articles you're writing to get it ranked? Then, once you rent it, are you just keeping those generic articles there to maintain the rank, but adding the contact info for the new business owner?
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    • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
      yes. do all of your work in the generic mode ...you never know what may happen and you want to maintain control.

      Originally Posted by EmergencyMonkey View Post

      Can someone explain to me, when setting up a rental site, let's say it's for a plumbing business, are you building it with generic plumbing articles you're writing to get it ranked? Then, once you rent it, are you just keeping those generic articles there to maintain the rank, but adding the contact info for the new business owner?
      Signature

      free facebook ad trials . proof before payment

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  • Profile picture of the author brik2500
    Great post....I know the "leasing websites" thing is pretty hot right now...I never really understood the whole concept...as I just sold the leads...but this concept

    is a winner, but Google is so shaky to me (that's why I never really pursued it) but I understand the need to follow up with other advertising methods....
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  • Profile picture of the author ZNICK
    Excellent info in these posts, thanks all!

    Z
    Signature

    New Community Gives REAL Reviews of IM Programs. NO Affiliate Links - Free membership!.http://www.timbir.net

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    • Profile picture of the author bob999
      Can you give us some insight as to what lead funnels you are using other than search? Do you do any paid lead gen - PPC, media buys, Facebook ads?

      Thanks You
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Baer
    Chris check your PM,
    Thanks,

    Jeff
    Signature

    Jeff Baer

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  • Profile picture of the author lint631
    Hey Chris great post! I'm wondering if you could give us an update. Would love to hear your progress!
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    • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
      Originally Posted by lint631 View Post

      Hey Chris great post! I'm wondering if you could give us an update. Would love to hear your progress!
      Yes I am still doing this full time, it's been just about 2 years now, and things have gone extremely well. A lot has changed over the year though on how I generate leads since staying ranked in Google has become more of a headache in the last year, I now do a mix of various ppc, classifieds, craigslist etc in addition to the search engines to make up the difference.

      Honestly my biggest challenge over the last 6 months or so has just been the scaling part, as I had started spending so much time managing client's and campaigns that I had very little time to sell new clients and grow.

      So I spent the last couple months of 2013 establishing additional outsourced helper relationships to help make growing again a possibility. My goal in 2014 is to double my client base, and I am just a week or so away from kicking off the next big sales push for new clients.

      You just need to roll with the punches and always look for ways to change and tweak what you are doing to make the client's phones ring.

      Happy 2014 and may All your dreams become reality!

      -Chris

      ps. Wow too many PM's - Seems I've not logged on enough here sorry, been too busy. I had multiple pages of private messages, answered a few but guys most of what was asked was already answered somewhere in this thread, I'll try to get to some others later. Have a great year folks!
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      • Profile picture of the author tarpontim1138
        Chris,
        I have seen any updates lately. How is you progress going with your 2014 goals?
        Great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author jspmedia
    which classified sites are you using? I need to bring leads to my client site - I am doing PPC, SEO..but can use extra leads for sure..
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    Great Thread.

    Is anyone able to share an example site rental contract that I could edit and use?
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    • Profile picture of the author shockwave
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      Great Thread.

      Is anyone able to share an example site rental contract that I could edit and use?
      Here's one I posted last year. I'm sure you can probably tweak it to fit your needs http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post8523817

      Good Luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author zoro
        Originally Posted by shockwave View Post

        Here's one I posted last year. I'm sure you can probably tweak it to fit your needs http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post8523817

        Good Luck!
        Hey, thanks so much Shockwave, its really appreciated.
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        • I am very competent with wordpress so maybe there is a good theme out of the box that does the job. Can someone point me to a theme suitable for a lead gen service site? Or standalone html theme that is suitable?

          Are leads primarily phone leads as opposed to web form/email leads? Assuming that's the case, should the website (and marketing efforts - FB, Google, CL, etc...) just push the phone number and not a lead gen form?

          Thanks in advance!
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          • Profile picture of the author HassanAjmal
            Originally Posted by Captain Courageous View Post

            I am very competent with wordpress so maybe there is a good theme out of the box that does the job. Can someone point me to a theme suitable for a lead gen service site? Or standalone html theme that is suitable?

            Are leads primarily phone leads as opposed to web form/email leads? Assuming that's the case, should the website (and marketing efforts - FB, Google, CL, etc...) just push the phone number and not a lead gen form?

            Thanks in advance!
            This one is awesome, have used it a few times now.. very quick and effective... http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...gen-sites.html
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          • Profile picture of the author zoro
            Originally Posted by Captain Courageous View Post

            I am very competent with wordpress so maybe there is a good theme out of the box that does the job. Can someone point me to a theme suitable for a lead gen service site? Or standalone html theme that is suitable?

            Are leads primarily phone leads as opposed to web form/email leads? Assuming that's the case, should the website (and marketing efforts - FB, Google, CL, etc...) just push the phone number and not a lead gen form?

            Thanks in advance!
            Here is one that I use: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ll-rights.html
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          • Profile picture of the author jackheape
            The model talked about here is for phone calls. That's what I do. Forms work if you are giving something away like a free report or something. Lead gen works best with customer calls. They are immediate, measurable, and recordable. I personally use PPC, FB ads, and Craigslist to drive most of my traffic. Organic traffic works well over time, but it takes a while to rank a site in a competitive niche. To break into this you need to do a lot of research on your niche in any particular geo area, particularly if you use PPC.

            Addendum:
            I answered a few PM's about this post and wanted to add a few things. 1. You are going to have to talk on the phone guys. So many courses talk about no cold calling, and that is just BS. No business person is going to pay you hundreds of dollars every month without talking to you. You can use email, voice mail, direct mail to get your foot in the door so you can speak to the decision maker, but you do HAVE to speak to them. 2. Know something about the niche you are trying to sell to. Visit contractor forums. Talk to owners. Ask them what is a customer worth? Find out what the cost of PPC ads are running for various keywords in that niche. 3. If you are completely new to this then do it for free initially for a business owner you know locally. That way you can sit down and talk with them about their business, learn the ropes, and they will be more forgiving if you screw up at first. 4. Stay away from the high competition niches, at least at first, like Dentists, Plumbers, Roofers, Chiropractors, Attorneys, Real Estate Agents, etc. Why? For one thing, everybody and their brother is trying to sell something to them. They are absolutely inundated with sales calls from IM people, phone people, advertising people, etc, etc. Also, because it is a competitive niche, it is going to, 1. cost you more to drive traffic to your site, and 2. take you longer to rank organically for any given keyword.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
              Originally Posted by jackheape View Post

              The model talked about here is for phone calls. That's what I do. Forms work if you are giving something away like a free report or something. Lead gen works best with customer calls. They are immediate, measurable, and recordable. I personally use PPC, FB ads, and Craigslist to drive most of my traffic. Organic traffic works well over time, but it takes a while to rank a site in a competitive niche. To break into this you need to do a lot of research on your niche in any particular geo area, particularly if you use PPC.

              Addendum:
              I answered a few PM's about this post and wanted to add a few things. 1. You are going to have to talk on the phone guys. So many courses talk about no cold calling, and that is just BS. No business person is going to pay you hundreds of dollars every month without talking to you. You can use email, voice mail, direct mail to get your foot in the door so you can speak to the decision maker, but you do HAVE to speak to them. 2. Know something about the niche you are trying to sell to. Visit contractor forums. Talk to owners. Ask them what is a customer worth? Find out what the cost of PPC ads are running for various keywords in that niche. 3. If you are completely new to this then do it for free initially for a business owner you know locally. That way you can sit down and talk with them about their business, learn the ropes, and they will be more forgiving if you screw up at first. 4. Stay away from the high competition niches, at least at first, like Dentists, Plumbers, Roofers, Chiropractors, Attorneys, Real Estate Agents, etc. Why? For one thing, everybody and their brother is trying to sell something to them. They are absolutely inundated with sales calls from IM people, phone people, advertising people, etc, etc. Also, because it is a competitive niche, it is going to, 1. cost you more to drive traffic to your site, and 2. take you longer to rank organically for any given keyword.

              Great tips, Jack!

              I'm seriously considering this, at least for 2 hours per day on the phone and increasing the time as it replaces my current business model. I do wish that I had more info on what niches to target, or at least a guide to doing the research. I'm not very analytical, unfortunately. I can do it, but only to a point and then I get bored. I'd like to be able to outsource a few things right away.

              I suppose I'll learn some things along the way, eh? :-)

              Thanks,

              Joe
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              • Profile picture of the author Saint
                Guys

                its an awesome thread. I wanted to know the othere sources of getting leads espically i would want ot know the PPC network that you are currently using.I'm sure that Google PPC is very expensive but it might convert well.

                Any ideas on this would be highly appreciated.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dhira
              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              In actuality yes I am renting the sites, but to the client, half of them do not even know the url, to them they are buying minimum 15-20 calls from me a month, that's what their entire decision was based on.
              Chris
              A bit confusing. Do you even mention the sites at all? Or do you say I am offering you leads each month?
              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              Currently I have a goal of getting to roughly $20k a month recurring before I venture off into new branches, which should not be too long.
              Chris
              Have you gottten there by now?
              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              I have the calls initially going to the virtual numbers voice mail. When a lead comes into a site that is not rented I call a random service company in that area from my call list and give the lead away, it's a fantastic ice breaker, and I have even eventually closed some clients this way without ever truly 'pitching' them. Just be creative.

              By the way, personally I feel I have to do this, I would not feel right for calls to not be responded to by a company in that field, so I do go the extra mile to be sure leads get to a service company before the site is not yet rented, it's unethical to do otherwise to me.

              Chris
              Just wondering what you say. "Hi, I know you need clients, I have some free leads for you to try out..." Something along those lines? Do you mention the "rental" then or after you call them back?
              Do you send them the voice mail or the client contact info?
              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post


              Just remember, Rank means Nothing, sure it helps, but Only calls matter. So you want to rank for as much surrounding your niche as possible, and generate traffic from more than just Google.
              Chris
              Love this quote for some reason. Really drives it home. You're not "renting a site"...right? YOu are renting leads generation (What do you call it?)
              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              Thank you for the compliment. It's sales 101 really... Find a need/demand/want then fill it, and then OVER-Deliver. Recipe for long term clients right there.

              I do not even mention Google, or ranking in my sales calls, I focus the entire contact around, I have these customers calling... Want them?
              Chris
              And how do you give it to them when they say 'yes!'?
              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              Thank you for the compliment Zannix, you know what they say right? Go Big or Go Home! Don't half do something ya know, so I am All in!

              Personally I have taken a look at Callfire (good one maybe your best bet for International), Ring Central, and Phone dot com. Not sure if the last two do international or not, and I see Ryanmckinney is saying Callfire may be best for Aussie, he may be right. In the US though I ended up going with Phone dot com myself, and frankly could not be happier.

              Initially I have it going to a voicemail for that niche's site. Once a few calls come in I actually call businesses in that town WITHOUT pitching them, and just give out FREE leads, which also makes me feel better as I do not think it is right to let customer calls go un-answered, feels deceptive to do it any other way to me. This obviously gets these businesses a bit fired up wondering how/why am I giving this business to them for free. Once the calls have increased on the site and I am ready to actually pitch the companies and find a permanent home for the calls, who do you think I first approach? I end up with a pretty good closing ratio on those people I gave leads to, not always though if not no harm done I just move on and sell it pretty quickly.

              Omce the site is sold/leased I then just point the number to the client's number of choice. One very important and Powerful feature of any phone forwarding Zannix is to the ability to silently announce or whisper a message before the call goes through so the client knows the call came from you, be SURE to use this it will keep your clients very happy.
              Chris
              How much time between giving the free leads and calling to set up the "lease"?

              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              Remember, these companies are being let down daily by overpaying versus results with places like YP, Service Magic, BBB, Yelp, Adwords, [ insert every other company here ]. You come along & offer them something more personal, for less, and deliver more than the others by far = long term client.

              Also David, earlier notice I said "once I sell the 'Lead Gen'", and I did NOT say once I sell or lease the 'WebSite'. I keep the website in the background, I am selling these people leads, not a ranking. If you focus on the lead gen the ranks for certain keywords never become an issue with them. Just be sure your sites have strong calls to action and you rank well for at lease a few of the medium searched phrases for your local niche and the customers will call. Sell your Lead gen with confidence then spend a % of profits on helping it along (classifieds, video's, ppc, backpage, craigslist, whatever really). Do not rely entirely on ANY one entity such as SEO etc, you want 'Multiple lead funnels.' Therefore I would 'Not' sell a client yet if just relying on classifieds/ppc etc, I'd wait until the site got some calls on it's own first, or take a look why it is not already.

              Hope this helps...
              -Chris
              Have you thought of charging more if the calls go over a certain number? Or reducing if the calls drop below a certain number?Is 12-15 your minimum call number for charging your monthly rate?

              Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

              Been really good tarpontim, I have pretty much doubled my clients this year and it's business as usual. Also to the some private questions earlier, I only seek new clients via telemarketing, I don't even attempt any other method.

              Over the last few months though I have definitely been shifting gears and changing my stance of signing a higher 'quantity' of recurring flat rate clients, to signing less, but higher 'quality' clients on recurring + commission structures (higher ticket niches)....
              So while I work hard to maintain all of my existing clients, I am now focusing more on making much more profit for the same or even less time worked, greatly increasing my profit per client, without working me to the nub. Frankly I am not sure how many more clients I could have handled before needing to put in SO many hours a week, that can lead to boredom and unhappiness.

              Till next time =)

              -Chris
              Do you come to an agreement on commission only if x numbers close? Or every sale gets you a commission?

              Thanks for the thread by the way.
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              • Profile picture of the author BillyParadise
                Originally Posted by Dhira View Post

                A bit confusing. Do you even mention the sites at all? Or do you say I am offering you leads each month?
                Have you gottten there by now?
                Just wondering what you say. "Hi, I know you need clients, I have some free leads for you to try out..." Something along those lines? Do you mention the "rental" then or after you call them back?
                Do you send them the voice mail or the client contact info?
                Love this quote for some reason. Really drives it home. You're not "renting a site"...right? YOu are renting leads generation (What do you call it?)And how do you give it to them when they say 'yes!'?
                How much time between giving the free leads and calling to set up the "lease"?

                Have you thought of charging more if the calls go over a certain number? Or reducing if the calls drop below a certain number?Is 12-15 your minimum call number for charging your monthly rate?

                Do you come to an agreement on commission only if x numbers close? Or every sale gets you a commission?

                Thanks for the thread by the way.
                Dhira, this thread has been going on a LONG time, and you have some very in-depth questions. When it comes down to it, the business model is very effective, and the process is straightforward.

                1. Pick a Niche and a City.
                2. Build a site.
                2a. Purchase a call tracking number.
                3. Rank the site.
                3a. Once you start receiving calls to your tracking number, forward it to someone on page 2 or 3 of google.
                3b. Ideally, install a whisper feature saying "this is a free lead from Dhira Co"
                4. Call up the business after 10 or 20 leads and say "did you notice my free leads? Do you want them to continue?"
                Yes? Bank.
                No? You now have statistics. Call the next guy on the list and confidently tell him how many calls you get per week.

                I've been doing leadgen for about 6 months now, and though each part of the process is a job in itself, once you get all the pieces in place, it's practically hands off. An excellent business model.

                Incidentally, for those already in the PPL Leadgen business, please check my sig.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
    Been really good tarpontim, I have pretty much doubled my clients this year and it's business as usual. Also to the some private questions earlier, I only seek new clients via telemarketing, I don't even attempt any other method.

    Over the last few months though I have definitely been shifting gears and changing my stance of signing a higher 'quantity' of recurring flat rate clients, to signing less, but higher 'quality' clients on recurring + commission structures (higher ticket niches).

    My flat rate recurring base is very solid but I was finding myself working much more than I would like on mundane tasks, and managing outsourcers to keep everything moving smoothly, and that workload was doing nothing but increasing as I added 'more' clients.

    So while I work hard to maintain all of my existing clients, I am now focusing more on making much more profit for the same or even less time worked, greatly increasing my profit per client, without working me to the nub. Frankly I am not sure how many more clients I could have handled before needing to put in SO many hours a week, that can lead to boredom and unhappiness.

    Anyone here reach that point? Just curious how you have handled it, I am much happier now that I slowed the pace of the new flat fee/monthly lower ticket client push and focused more on quality/higher ticket flat/monthly+commission setups I push now (in the pricier niches).

    In case anyone new to this is wondering though, Yes this industry is still very alive and kicking, and it's never too late to get started. You just want to go out of your way to make sure your lead generation model does not lean 100% on just once source for leads in case changes (think Google's zoo), never put all your eggs into one basket.

    Till next time =)

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

      Over the last few months though I have definitely been shifting gears and changing my stance of signing a higher 'quantity' of recurring flat rate clients, to signing less, but higher 'quality' clients on recurring + commission structures (higher ticket niches).

      My flat rate recurring base is very solid but I was finding myself working much more than I would like on mundane tasks, and managing outsourcers to keep everything moving smoothly, and that workload was doing nothing but increasing as I added 'more' clients.

      So while I work hard to maintain all of my existing clients, I am now focusing more on making much more profit for the same or even less time worked, greatly increasing my profit per client, without working me to the nub. Frankly I am not sure how many more clients I could have handled before needing to put in SO many hours a week, that can lead to boredom and unhappiness.
      That makes a lot of sense. It took you awhile to find out what the money markets were and then awhile longer to set it up where you can charge enough to run it, make great money and still have time for a life.

      Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

      Anyone here reach that point? Just curious how you have handled it, I am much happier now that I slowed the pace of the new flat fee/monthly lower ticket client push and focused more on quality/higher ticket flat/monthly+commission setups I push now (in the pricier niches).
      I haven't reached that point in offine lead generation, but I certainly have in offline physical product sales. My deal is that I have a great relationship with most of my customers. Many have done business with me for the better part of two decades. The problem is that the industry I'm in has experienced major changes since the recession and the value of each customer has greatly deteriorated. This industry is one where you can clearly see the gap widening between the large companies and the little guys.

      Personally, I'm burned out. Put a fork in me. I'm just about done. I've just picked up a few things ( Dr. Dan's new software, an offline template, etc) and some solid lessons on how to get started. My helper is finishing a project this week and next week I'm having her go full speed ahead into building local sites.

      I'm also putting in a couple hours per day setting up PPC ads, testing offers and building lists. I used to love doing that and did well for quite awhile. Other than the Google slap on my Adwords account, I have no idea why I ever stopped doing it completely.

      I'll keep working my business part-time until my other ventures equal or overtake my current income and I can leave the industry debt free. I like to have it to fall back on - just in case. I definitely want to keep my credit and reputation intact.

      Honestly, since I've made this decision I'm almost at peace. The constant stress was really beginning to suck. I'm kicking this burden to the curb and starting over again.

      Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

      In case anyone new to this is wondering though, Yes this industry is still very alive and kicking, and it's never too late to get started. You just want to go out of your way to make sure your lead generation model does not lean 100% on just once source for leads in case changes (think Google's zoo), never put all your eggs into one basket.

      Till next time =)

      -Chris
      Thanks for the sound advice, Chris. I'll definitely be taking it to heart and putting it to use!

      Joe
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    • Profile picture of the author desouza13
      Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

      Been really good tarpontim, I have pretty much doubled my clients this year and it's business as usual. Also to the some private questions earlier, I only seek new clients via telemarketing, I don't even attempt any other method.

      Over the last few months though I have definitely been shifting gears and changing my stance of signing a higher 'quantity' of recurring flat rate clients, to signing less, but higher 'quality' clients on recurring + commission structures (higher ticket niches).

      My flat rate recurring base is very solid but I was finding myself working much more than I would like on mundane tasks, and managing outsourcers to keep everything moving smoothly, and that workload was doing nothing but increasing as I added 'more' clients.

      So while I work hard to maintain all of my existing clients, I am now focusing more on making much more profit for the same or even less time worked, greatly increasing my profit per client, without working me to the nub. Frankly I am not sure how many more clients I could have handled before needing to put in SO many hours a week, that can lead to boredom and unhappiness.

      Anyone here reach that point? Just curious how you have handled it, I am much happier now that I slowed the pace of the new flat fee/monthly lower ticket client push and focused more on quality/higher ticket flat/monthly+commission setups I push now (in the pricier niches).

      In case anyone new to this is wondering though, Yes this industry is still very alive and kicking, and it's never too late to get started. You just want to go out of your way to make sure your lead generation model does not lean 100% on just once source for leads in case changes (think Google's zoo), never put all your eggs into one basket.

      Till next time =)

      -Chris
      Hey Chris,

      Thanks for the thread, it helped me out a lot. Would love to hear an update from you on how you are doing. I had a few questions:

      1) What theme do you use with Wordpress to build your websites? I have heard the genesis framework + a child theme is one of the best, and most optimized SEO routes to go out of the box. What do you think? I do not want to try any thing else incase the code is not properly optimized.

      2) What images do you use for the general niche sites? doesn't the duplicate content hurt your rankings if you find images from google?

      3)what tool do you use to check competitors backlinks .. (after testing a few it seems that ahrefs.com is the most accurate, but it is very expensive at $75/month)

      Thanks a lot again, and hope all is well in your business.

      Kevin
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  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    Joe. .life is good. Do what you in joy doing..doesnt matter about your present situation..go with your flow of happiness. .regardless. hate to read that you are done..cause you're not done. ..you're here..do what makes you happy..the other stuff will come..my experience anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by bobmcalister View Post

      Joe. .life is good. Do what you in joy doing..doesnt matter about your present situation..go with your flow of happiness. .regardless. hate to read that you are done..cause you're not done. ..you're here..do what makes you happy..the other stuff will come..my experience anyway.
      Thanks, Bob. I'm not "done" in the sense that I'm not going to work online and offline projects anymore. I'm just done working hard on something that I don't enjoy as much anymore and comes with a certain degree of stress because of the inventory I have to pay for regularly.

      It makes much more sense to start a business that has zero inventory obligations, build and rent sites to customers that I only have to sell to ONE time and collect a monthly residual from each customer that I can rely on rather than my current sporadic, unreliable sales.

      Make sense? :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author rlenthe
    Hi, Chris.

    Do you have any examples of your sites or a 'step by step' instructional to offer?

    Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author ylian
      Hi Chris, What kind of products do you sell ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

        My deal is that I have a great relationship with most of my customers. Many have done business with me for the better part of two decades.
        Work that angle to no end, trust is Everything in business, Everything and they Trust you Joe that has immense value in all forms of sales. Find what they need, figure out how you can provide a solution, and simply sell it to them.


        Originally Posted by hometutor View Post

        May I ask what you charge for leasing a site Chris?


        Rick
        Rick, first I want to thank Joe of answering for me, and with good info as well.

        When I started out I had many clients at $200-300 a month because frankly I was not confident enough in my own product/ability. As time has gone on however, my clients range from $300 (older clients still with me) to as much as $3000+ a month flat (and everywhere in between), and even more in some cases via a smaller flat + commission model.

        To be honest when it comes to flat rate pricing it really depends on two things, the 'type' of business/niche (profit margin for client), and quantity/Quality of leads you are giving them... Price accordingly, don't get stuck on just one price for eternity for all clients. As you get better, charge more appropriately for your services. When you are new, nothing wrong with bargain basement pricing so you can get a few clients under your belt learn the ropes on your end without going broke.


        Originally Posted by desouza13 View Post

        Hey Chris,

        Thanks for the thread, it helped me out a lot. Would love to hear an update from you on how you are doing. I had a few questions:

        1) What theme do you use with Wordpress to build your websites?

        2) What images do you use for the general niche sites? doesn’t the duplicate content hurt your rankings if you find images from Google?

        3)what tool do you use to check competitors backlinks .. (after testing a few it seems that ahrefs.com is the most accurate, but it is very expensive at $75/month)

        Thanks a lot again, and hope all is well in your business.

        Kevin
        Kevin Hi and good questions.

        I am doing great, business as usual, still maintaining existing and signing new clients on a regular pace, but now they are more referrals from existing clients than solicited, which is never a bad thing (less telemarketing)

        As for your other questions... First of all it is important to understand my skill-set is mainly in sales and ongoing client relations, web design, SEO, Coding etc., is NOT where you will find my finest achievements. That is what outsourcing is for!

        1) I do use WordPress for most of what I do, and I use a number of themes. I am not married to any one theme, but I have done most of my sites using the Thesis framework both 1 & 2 series simply because I chose them a few years ago over Genesis (can't remember why). I have no experience using the Genesis framework, but have seen many fantastic sites built with it so I would not doubt what you have seen. As for 'optimized out of the box' I cannot comment as I never used theme SEO, I just use a plug-in, something like Yoast or All In One etc for my SEO on-site and just don't go crazy with over-optimization, and I honestly think it wont matter too much what theme you use. Just stay away from 'Cheap Free Crap', instead pick a good theme and go to town! Most importantly, be very careful who you use for your off-site SEO, bad spammy off-site can ruin any good website.

        2) You may be surprised to know that I legally BUY all my images (istockphoto etc.) used on every site, just to avoid ever getting in trouble, it's really not all that expensive to buy an allotment of credits somewhere with a good selection and get what you need for a multitude of sites. If you are treating this as a business (as you should be) this really is a very minor expense as long as you don't get more than you need.

        As for your duplicate content question relating to images, I am not an Expert SEO guy as I already told you but I have not found any issue with Dupe content on images. I will say however, that I do change the sizes slightly, the filename, and of course optimize title/alt tags per site just to be safe and to help on-site SEO.

        3) Ahrefs.com is great, I mostly however get enough of what I need from competitors out of Market Samurai, (no monthly fee). Maybe not as good as others but it's enough information for me (but remember I am NO SEO expert, I just know 'Enough'). Perhaps some SEO old hat's out there could point out SEO software differences to you...

        As for me though... Again, this all comes back to treating this as a real business as you should be. If you are, then you should be evaluating, and eventually picking the software that best suits your needs, and BUY it, don't be afraid to invest in yourself... all businesses have included up front costs, and recurring costs to bear. Figure out your budget for year one, see what products/services are needed, or are a Huge help, and fit it into your budget.. Then GO! Don't overspend, but doing this whole business via the completely free route will be Far more challenging.

        On a side note, personally I do think $75/month is too much when 1st starting out, at least until you have 7 or 8 clients to offset it etc. but that is just my opinion, I don't like recurring costs unless it is a necessity.


        Originally Posted by rlenthe View Post

        Hi, Chris.

        Do you have any examples of your sites or a 'step by step' instructional to offer?

        Thanks!
        Sorry Rlenthe... I don't share my sites, too many people will just copy it letter for letter causing problems, and I do not offer any sort of 'Step by Step' Instructional or WSO (although I have told you what I did step by step pretty much!).

        I have had people ask me to do a WSO, and I have honestly thought about it, but I want to keep this truly free, actually helpful information on WF (as a thank you for the site helping me!). Maybe one day I will do a WSO and donate the proceeds to charity or something, but I don't want a profit from a thank you.

        Honestly though... If you go over this thread itself, and the many other lead generation, website rental threads on WF I am certain you will find all you need to give you the inspiration to start your own program... That's what I did, and I know you can too.


        Originally Posted by ylian View Post

        Hi Chris, What kind of products do you sell ?
        Ylian, I do not sell products as of right now only lead generation to businesses.

        Most of which is in the service industries such as real estate, roofers, locksmith, hvac, plumber, roofer, countertops, water restoration, custom remodeling, garage door repair, and many many more small and large ticket...... you name it.



        I hope that answer's all the questions since last time I was around, if not fire away I will be back again. Best of luck to all of you!!

        Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
          Hi Chris,

          Have you needed to change your approach since all the Google changes have taken place? Also, do you rank for organic searches or do you set up locally like through Google local places to try to get into the 7 pack?
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          • Profile picture of the author hoppy
            Originally Posted by ivanela33 View Post

            Hi Chris,

            Have you needed to change your approach since all the Google changes have taken place? Also, do you rank for organic searches or do you set up locally like through Google local places to try to get into the 7 pack?

            I think google is always making changes, and have been doing so for a lot of years, so I would think you need to adapt as they come up. I do not think the OP is using any tricks to use google places for most of his sites and appears to be doing standard lead gen sites witch cannot rank in places because they have no physical address and I think he is against any tricks to rank on them. I believe he mentioned something about google places in some of his posts but I think it was to point out a possible up-sell he might offer to clients who want there main sites to rank better in google places, not to rank his own lead gen with places.

            One thing I got from his posts (and what stood out to me most about his method) is that he is not reliant on google or google places at all, and only a small percentage of leads actually come from google 20/30%. I think this is great information to know and pay attention too, especially for people who are constantly in fear of google changing the game because even if they do he's generating traffic from other sources, and based on the percentages he mentioned could still run his business profitably regardless even if he got no traffic from google.
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          • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
            ivanela33... Hoppy answered you exactly right and thank you for that Hoppy.

            Grats Droinspired, and thank you DrAmit & tbs, glad to have helped you in some way.

            I hope all you guys are kickin butt in the lead gen space, it's really doing nothing but getting better all the time, I'm still loving it.

            Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author eezymoney
    Thanks so much for sharing this.

    Just wondering if you use any type of software to maintain/post all the free adverts?

    I could imagine this would be really time consuming without it.

    Thanks in advance.
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  • Profile picture of the author droinspired
    I am renting out 2 of my niche website right now month to month paid viapaypal for $400. Renting websites is smart because you continue to own the property while it generates money for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    Is site rental still a viable business model in 2015.?

    I only ask because with all the Google updates etc, I'm thinking it might not be as easy to rank websites like it used to be.?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      Is site rental still a viable business model in 2015.?

      I only ask because with all the Google updates etc, I'm thinking it might not be as easy to rank websites like it used to be.?
      I have read many of your comments prior to this about SEO and the like. I think you mentioned you lost 4 sites to "Panda"? The reality is this.. I have never "lost" a site unless I intended to. Yes, I will develop sites with the intent purpose of seeing where the line of listed and sandbox is. Once I hit sandbox I do try and reverse that.. and if I way over crossed the line.. I let the domain fall away.

      Sites today I think are far EASIER to rank. But that comes with a caveat. I pretty much know what true white hat development is. I pay better than close attention to the SEO world not to see what is trending today.. but what is being said about trends of tomorrow.

      In the world of "Google SEO" you really need to look at the Florida update ( November 2003 ) and all of the things that were "corrected" then are the same today ( the more things change the more they stay the same ) PANDA is really an extension of Florida. PENGUIN is really an extension of Florida. Payday, Pirate, Phantom 2 ALL have their roots and established definitions beginning with the Florida update.

      I am in no way directing the next comment AT you ( zoro ) but I think getting smacked with any of these updates is stupid. The fact that all of this is well documented and there is no question what Google is looking for. There is just this tendency to cut corners, to bend the rules only slightly, to try and beat the system... and time and again it is proven the system will win.

      If there ever was any of this that I could be guilty of it is right here: Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: An update on doorway pages Doorway pages. I am a big fan.. well let me rephrase that.. I WAS a big fan. I have spent the last what 3 months or so going through and cleaning up as best I could. A tool I use to identify these pages within my sits structure is dynomapper.com ( a visual link tree )

      What you are basically looking for is what Google has deemed "Islands" of pages that point to one page. say lander 1 through 10 and the all point to topic 2 page, and they are not crossed linked from anywhere else on the site.

      But back on topic... Ranking in general unless you are shooting for the moon and going for the term "Xbox One" or something is not that hard. Are there tricks in all of this? sure there is. I think the best thing that could be read about and understood in this process is how to control "Juice".

      You don't need PBN's to be successful. you really in most cases don't need all that much back linking. I use a 90% ( no follow ) to 10% ( do follow ) strategy. ( I am sure I will catch flack here ) its understanding how to get and control juice. how to make it flow where you want it. how to make it work for you.

      ALL SEO strategies are based on content. So reading up on Content Marketing. Reading up on Pillar Content. Reading up on Corner Stone Content. Understanding how to pick target keywords within your niche or market. How to use social media with your content to develop that 10% do follow back linking ( and NO I am not suggesting that the social media linking is the backlink, its what others do with linking to your content away from social media sources )

      It is a STRATEGY.. there does need to be a game plan.. there does have to be a bit of structure in what you do. Reading the above topics will start pointing you in the right direction.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    Perhaps generating real targeted traffic via Paid Ads through Adwords and Facebook might be the way to attack this, ensuring the website generates inquiries and phone calls, so long as there is still a reasonable ROI.
    This would be apart from some On Page SEO and minimal Off Page SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      Perhaps generating real targeted traffic via Paid Ads through Adwords and Facebook might be the way to attack this, ensuring the website generates inquiries and phone calls, so long as there is still a reasonable ROI.
      This would be apart from some On Page SEO and minimal Off Page SEO.
      Most people I know that are following this ( site rental ) model start with solid on page SEO. You can go and find posts by MRomeo09 try this: http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post9344219 where he discusses the math end of using a PPC model in doing this.

      There are obvious factors that have to be looked at ( as he lays out in that post ) to determine if a PPC model is actually usable in any given situation.

      Personally I like the SEO path. Aside from the time it takes to develop the right content to get the right traffic there is no expense in the traffic. No expense means greater profit in the end.

      I am going to make a suggestion here. #1 I absolutely love your ambition. #2 I love how you follow through. #3 I love that deep seated desire you have. The thing that needs to stop is the bounce. - I did this and that didn't work.. how bout this.. that didn't work.. how bought that.. that didn't work either. Its not that you are chasing shiny things.. its that you have not developed a system that works for you yet.

      And don't for 2 seconds think that is a bad thing.. because you keep at it, you keep trying.

      The suggestion... why not develop a site for yourself. An affiliate site or anything. Learn how to develop SEO traffic to your site. ( you can literally start the flow of traffic to just about any site in DAYS if you know what you are doing ) If the offer has the room learn how to develop PPC to your offer. Stop the impact of those around you, and learn the skills to succeed. Once you do these things once. you can repeat those efforts time and again for the benefit of others. But until you can do it for yourself, you need to minimize the wake around you.

      I would be more than happy to help you in this process. ( you know that ) its really not as hard as it sounds. There are 12 year olds out there crushing it, and so can you!
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  • Profile picture of the author bananapeel
    To the OP, I see you started this thread in 2012. Since the many google updates, have you changed your method of operation at all? Local seo must have been much easier 3 years ago.. are the websites you built in 2012 still generating leads from organic search themselves or are you relying heavily on alternate lead sources?

    Great thread, great inspiration. Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author bananapeel
      Originally Posted by bananapeel View Post

      To the OP, I see you started this thread in 2012. Since the many google updates, have you changed your method of operation at all? Local seo must have been much easier 3 years ago.. are the websites you built in 2012 still generating leads from organic search themselves or are you relying heavily on alternate lead sources?

      Great thread, great inspiration. Thanks
      Bumping this question, would really like an answer
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      • Profile picture of the author 9999
        Would love to see any updates and if people are still making $$ doing this.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
          Originally Posted by 9999 View Post

          Would love to see any updates and if people are still making $$ doing this.
          I'm making some money with it, though I still only have one client. It's actually pretty simple to build a website based around a local niche that's not too competitive and get it ranked. The key is whether the sites you build are going to generate traffic and leads, because if they're not the clients won't stick around long.

          I watched a webinar recently with Joe Troyer and he said that he basically builds simple sites in a niche, throws them up in several different areas and finds out what sticks. Some may bring in traffic and some won't.

          Also, you can build smaller websites and run Adwords or Facebook campaigns. I started doing an Adwords campaign for my client a few months ago and as it turns out, the keyword phrase he wanted to be ranked for was only getting an average of 2 impressions (not clicks!) per month! I also found a few broad matched keywords that I wouldn't have thought of if I hadn't run the campaign.

          Once you find out where the traffic's coming from simply focus your Adwords campaign on those, but still expand the pages on your site to get as much free local traffic as you possibly can by including the new keywords you find in existing pages (where applicable), building new pages around them, creating videos, etc.

          Also, get a phone tracking number. I used Phone.com for a few months but ended up having problems and canceled. There are several options that you can find in this thread or on Google.

          HTH
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  • Profile picture of the author Seemore25101
    Just came across this.. Didn't realize it was from 2012. Great post. Going through the replies now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nexstair
    I understand this business model and how it works.Am not sure if you are doing everything manually but collecting data and charging clients according to their rates can be tedious.I have just built a system for a client which automatically receive calls, forward it and keep record of pricing.In the end admin only need to select client and duration to send bill.He is using Twilio which have some great features including call whisper.
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  • Profile picture of the author 5757
    This is by far one of the best lead gen threads I've come across. A huge thank you Chris and everyone else who has contributed - very inspiring and has given me that extra motivation.

    How are you getting on with it now? Have you hit your $20,000 a month goal?

    Do you use any software to manage your day to day activities? I've only gone through this thread once so may have missed it if you've already mentioned it.

    I created a lead gen site a few weeks ago. One thing I may have possibly done wrong (and I hope you can give me some advice here), is that I registered a domain name that sounds like a company rather than register an EMD (although the domain name has the main keyword in it still). As an example, MrLawyer dot com. I also created a logo and all the text I have on the site refers to the company name Mr Lawyer.

    I have then created inner pages to target the local keywords. For example, Lawyer New York etc. When it comes to sending the leads to the potential client, will this confuse the customer as they would expect to speak to someone from MrLawyer but instead my client answers the phone using his company name?
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    • Profile picture of the author jackheape
      Branding a domain is better than EMD now. Google looks at that as being to spammy. Only do one city at time. Too many cities at once, unless the content is completely different is also too spammy. Once it ranks, you can post a graphic with the info of whoever you are renting the site too. That will help eliminate the confusion if any.
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  • Profile picture of the author 5757
    Thanks for your response Jack.

    I will most likely create a new thread for my next question but thought I'd ask here first. What is the best Wordpress theme you guys have used for lead gen? I used the following tool to check my current site and it came back with alot of errors and I think this is mainly due to how fancy the site looks. It has alot of banners, featured areas etc.

    varvy.com (it checks to see whether your site follows the Google webmaster guidelines)
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    • Profile picture of the author jackheape
      Hey thanks for the site tip, varvy.com. I did not know about it. I don't think there is one "best" theme. There are a ton of vendors out there selling all sorts. One theme I use a lot is GeneratePress. There is a free version but for $35 you get a tone of premium add-ons. This theme has a lot of support from its designer. One big thing to keep in mind for lead gen is, how does the site look on mobile devices? Over 50% of searches now are done on a mobile device. A lot of those specialty "lead gen" sites don't transfer over well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Stevens
        Originally Posted by jackheape View Post

        Hey thanks for the site tip, varvy.com. I did not know about it. I don't think there is one "best" theme. There are a ton of vendors out there selling all sorts. One theme I use a lot is GeneratePress. There is a free version but for $35 you get a tone of premium add-ons. This theme has a lot of support from its designer. One big thing to keep in mind for lead gen is, how does the site look on mobile devices? Over 50% of searches now are done on a mobile device. A lot of those specialty "lead gen" sites don't transfer over well.
        Hi Jack,

        I've seen you leaving some good tips in this thread.

        Can you possibly shed any light on the niches you are finding are profitable for you?

        Thanks a million.
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  • Profile picture of the author watsonovedades
    Any other option
    besides Twilio and Phone.com for redirecting calls?
    Awesome thread btw!
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    • Profile picture of the author BillyParadise
      Originally Posted by watsonovedades View Post

      Any other option
      besides Twilio and Phone.com for redirecting calls?
      Awesome thread btw!
      Why? What's wrong with them? I use Twilio without incident - actually I just replaced my SIP trunks from another company with them, to integrate my billing.
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  • Profile picture of the author eezymoney
    Billy - your sig links point to invalid threads?
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    • Profile picture of the author BillyParadise
      Originally Posted by eezymoney View Post

      Billy - your sig links point to invalid threads?
      Thanks, I just posted a couple of JVs today, I guess they haven't been approved yet. $99 for War Room access (so I could post them) wisely spent
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  • Profile picture of the author Br3nn4n
    I have my domain and hosting and ready to build my site with WP.

    Im based in the UK and was wondering what would be the best Call forwarding service to use.

    I looked into Twilio but it seems way above me. Any heads up and advice would be appreciated

    Thanks in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    You could use Callfire. I've used it before and it was easy. Other than that and Twilio I don't know any such services, though maybe Google Voice or Vumber would help.
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  • Profile picture of the author jackheape
    Just a heads up people on this thread. It has been going on a long time and things have changed. You can still make money at lead gen (I know. I am doing it.) but the process of ranking long term is more difficult now and Google has gotten a lot smarter in sniffing out sites that are not really local. Research and identifying a worthwhile niche is key. I am not saying that you cannot succeed at this, I am just interjecting a little caution here that "rank and rent" is a more ifficult process now than it was 4 years ago when this thread was first started. Like everything in IM do not go into this all starry eyed thinking you are going to get rich overnight.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Schwab
    Re: "Research and identifying a worthwhile niche is key."

    always has been. Just to appear on a local market with the idea to take over never worked,,
    ya maybe in 1998 you could take over a city with a city directory, but soon after it was all
    niche and super niche after that. And these days you have to pick one trendy thing out of a
    sub niche, everything else is already covered multiple times. There goes the neighborhood.
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  • Profile picture of the author SWIG
    Hello Chris,


    I am curious do you stay in one niche and drill down and dominate various keywords or are you in various niches?

    thomas
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