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Soft vs hard sell

by PaulintheSticks
18 replies
I had a really good meeting with the owner of a sizeable hvac company this morning. Did not pitch him. After about an hour and a half of brainstorming with him how he could market his business better, he asked me to tell him about my services which obviously is what you hope for. I know some will disagree with giving away 1 1/2 hours but since I'm just getting started, I'm playing it by ear right now.

Even after I gave him my pitch I knew he would have to check w/the boss (his wife) before making a decision so I didn't press it. When I was walking out he said very genuinely "I appreciate you giving me some time to think this over". Now there's a guy that's probably been hard sold to death.

Something to think about. I think I'll get business from him even if its not a consulting contract and I think a presentation/pitch should be customized for each prospect.

PS yea I know I could have used the "sign a contract and then if your wife doesn't approve" tactic but I'm really glad I didn't.
#hard #sell #soft
  • Profile picture of the author helisell
    Be REALLY interested in seeing whether you actually get the business.

    Call me old Mr Cynical but I really doubt you will.....as a rookie I walked away from meetings like this thinking I would....and guess what?

    No. Never. Not even once. Good luck
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    • Profile picture of the author mert
      Originally Posted by helisell View Post

      Be REALLY interested in seeing whether you actually get the business.

      Call me old Mr Cynical but I really doubt you will.....as a rookie I walked away from meetings like this thinking I would....and guess what?

      No. Never. Not even once. Good luck
      Perhaps you could be right... But it's not the 90's. People buy what they need and the market is well aware of what exactly you are doing.

      In Paul's case, I don't think his client is that easy to sell and I think he'll blow it if he did what he'd suppose to.
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      • Profile picture of the author helisell
        Originally Posted by mert View Post

        Perhaps you could be right... But it's not the 90's. People buy what they need and the market is well aware of what exactly you are doing.

        In Paul's case, I don't think his client is that easy to sell and I think he'll blow it if he did what he'd suppose to.
        So are you saying that it is not possible to 'sell' now that it's not the 90's because people 'buy what they need and the market is well aware of what you are doing'

        I'd better tell all those clients who keep coming back and asking me to train their salespeople (in 2013)..."sorry guys this stuff doesn't work now that it's not the 90's!!"

        Paul admitted he's a rookie. I am definitely NOT a rookie and I KNOW that what I do every day works....even though 'the market buys what it needs etc'

        It's called selling, it is multi facetted, it works the same today as it did 50 or 60 years ago, it is highly skillful.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

    I had a really good meeting with the owner of a sizeable hvac company this morning. Did not pitch him. After about an hour and a half of brainstorming with him how he could market his business better, he asked me to tell him about my services which obviously is what you hope for. I know some will disagree with giving away 1 1/2 hours but since I'm just getting started, I'm playing it by ear right now.

    Even after I gave him my pitch I knew he would have to check w/the boss (his wife) before making a decision so I didn't press it. When I was walking out he said very genuinely "I appreciate you giving me some time to think this over". Now there's a guy that's probably been hard sold to death.

    Something to think about. I think I'll get business from him even if its not a consulting contract and I think a presentation/pitch should be customized for each prospect.
    It depends on how you define selling.
    Showing the prospect what they need, and creating openings for them to ask how you can help them is advanced selling.

    And knowing when asking for the business will help or hurt your chances for a sale is also advanced selling.

    Maybe that's what you did. I tend to think so.

    But...not asking for the sale when they are in heat...is a mistake.
    And sometimes we think we are being advanced, when really we are just afraid of them saying "No".

    From your post, it sounds like you did the right thing.

    When you said "Hard sell VS Soft sell" I realized that nearly everyone thinks there is a difference. There is really "Advancing the sale, and hurting the sale"

    Want to sell a gallon of cider? You take a small cup and say "Here. Taste this"

    Is that hard selling or soft selling?

    Showing prospects what they could accomplish with online marketing...leaving openings for them to ask for help...is that soft selling? Probably.

    Speaking to a group of business owners, explaining what you could do for them...is that hard selling?

    If I'm in a presentation, and thy ask me questions, to any outside observer, I'm just being helpful. But I never forget for a second why I'm there. Is that hard selling? It is in my mind, but not to the prospect.

    Maybe I'm am "Iron fist-velvet glove" kind of guy.

    You brought up a good question, and gave a great example.

    By the way, when you said that the guy was probably hard sold to death...the question is "Did he buy from them?"

    One of the worst things I ever heard when I was selling vacuums in people's homes was "You're a nice guy. Not at all pushy like that other guy we bought from. And when we decide to buy...we'll call you. Count on it!".

    I've had maybe 5,000 people promise me they were going to buy from me later. Really. And none none have ever called me. (this is in home sales and in office sales. In the retail store, sometimes they do come back). But I've always (in their home ) exhausted every possibility that they were going to buy.

    Ahhhh memories.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    At least you are getting practice.
    Love your wild eye enthusiasm Thats when you can not get a check, make this comment and probably mean it.

    I had a really good meeting with the owner of a sizeable hvac company this morning

    I love giving free advice just stroke me and tell me how much you appreciate it.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by helisell View Post

      Be REALLY interested in seeing whether you actually get the business.

      Call me old Mr Cynical but I really doubt you will.....as a rookie I walked away from meetings like this thinking I would....and guess what?

      No. Never. Not even once. Good luck
      Maybe I'm totally naive. I admit, I'm a rookie.

      Did you ever have really good rapport? Did you ever try to build a relationship? Did you follow up? Did you provide value? That's my focus.

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      When you said "Hard sell VS Soft sell" I realized that nearly everyone thinks there is a difference. There is really "Advancing the sale, and hurting the sale"
      I guess I was using the conventional definition. But that is a really good distinction.

      If I'm in a presentation, and thy ask me questions, to any outside observer, I'm just being helpful. But I never forget for a second why I'm there. Is that hard selling? It is in my mind, but not to the prospect.
      Your approach makes total sense and is really what I need to learn.

      By the way, when you said that the guy was probably hard sold to death...the question is "Did he buy from them?"
      I've had maybe 5,000 people promise me they were going to buy from me later. Really. And none none have ever called me. (this is in home sales and in office sales. In the retail store, sometimes they do come back).
      Bummer. I used to get that at my health food store once in a while and no one ever came back. And the thing is, I always knew they weren't coming back. People are pretty easy to read if you ask me.

      I really feel different about this guy. The rapport was really strong. But I realize rapport don't pay the bills.

      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      At least you are getting practice.
      Love your wild eye enthusiasm Thats when you can not get a check, make this comment and probably mean it.
      Exactly. This was really good practice and even though I didn't get the sale, I felt really good because I felt like I really handled the consultation well.

      I mean initially it was pretty intimidating, because this guy is a pretty sharp businessman and has been doing it a bazillion years so the last thing you want to do is tell a guy like this, with the utmost confidence, that you can help him grow his business and end up looking like an amateur that is wasting his time.

      And when he asked me for a confidentiality agreement at the start of the meeting and I happened to have one handy, I was really glad I had put plenty of time into preparation to present myself as a professional and knew it was going to be a good meeting.
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      • Profile picture of the author PanteraIM
        Here's how I see it.

        If the boss (wife) is genuinely a decision maker then she should have been present in the meeting to begin with to preempt this stalling.

        The person you met won't be able to sell the idea to her as well as you could. You got what was a called a 'one legged appointment', and historically conversion rates for these appointments are low.

        If you did your homework though and uncovered his needs and presented yourself well then you should have no problem. Don't be surprised if you have to go back and speak with her especially if she's the controlling type of business person!

        Great work in diving into this head on!

        On another note: when prospects say 'I'll call you later, send me something in the mail', it's them just being polite and saying they are not interested. It's a false objection, a smoke screen which we all put up towards sales offers of any kind.

        A good way to counter this is to say 'Just before you go..'

        Then start asking them open ended questions to take back control of the conversation. Usually this kind of response from prospects happens very early in the interaction and is nothing more than an automatic response to a salesperson.
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by PanteraIM View Post

          If the boss (wife) is genuinely a decision maker then she should have been present in the meeting to begin with to preempt this stalling.The person you met won't be able to sell the idea to her as well as you could. You got what was a called a 'one legged appointment', and historically conversion rates for these appointments are low.
          Yea I knew going in that my chances were not very good of getting a contract.

          Great work in diving into this head on!
          Thanks man.
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      • Profile picture of the author misterme
        Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        And when he asked me for a confidentiality agreement at the start of the meeting and I happened to have one handy, I was really glad I had put plenty of time into preparation to present myself as a professional and it was going to be a good meeting.
        And he was both surprised and pissed that you had one. Up to now, he's used that request to successfully stop all the other salespeople cold.

        Or maybe not. I just happen to notice so many people think what something is, when it could be something else. I'm like a detective that way. A student of human nature.

        But what I really wanted to say is the softer sale doesn't work just by virtue of not inducing any pressure.

        My take on it is you need to really get the prospect to salivate and desire you and your service. That's about hitting their amygdala and making it light up like it's a pinball machine. So that at the end the question on the prospect's mind isn't "do we want to do this" but "I'm in. Can we make this happen?" especially if the prospect has to go sell it to his partner/ spouse / other.

        And then if you don't get the sale, get an advancement; a commitment to when you'll speak again, or have another appointment or SOMETHING. Some next step even if it's not the sale. You can't let it hang in the wind.
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by misterme View Post

          And he was both surprised and pissed that you had one. Up to now, he's used that request to successfully stop all the other salespeople cold.
          No, this guy definitely wanted to hear what I had to say. I gave him plenty of "sizzle but no steak" during the call to setup the meeting and also in the pre-meeting follow-up.

          My take on it is you need to really get the prospect to salivate and desire you and your service.
          I would say I did a pretty good job on that.

          And then if you don't get the sale, get an advancement; a commitment to when you'll speak again, or have another appointment or SOMETHING. Some next step even if it's not the sale. You can't let it hang in the wind.
          I could have done a better job there. But I did tell him I'll be in touch soon and planned to fax him a meeting and proposal review tomorrow plus some more sizzle.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

            But I did tell him I'll be in touch soon and planned to fax him a meeting and proposal review tomorrow plus some more sizzle.
            Paul; Two things. I like James Taylor, I clicked your link and listened to two of your songs. I had no idea that you had talent in playing the guitar and singing. I was impressed.

            And " I'll be in touch soon and planned to fax him a meeting and proposal review " just drives my "Salesman's soul" crazy.

            ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!! Me? "I get one shot to pitch, and he gets one shot to say yes". I know you have a different mindset, and I don't even know which one is better. But I've found that the buying process of the client is strongly influenced by how hard you grab the prospect's Amygdala and how hard you squeeze. (Yes, Misterme and I read the same book Pitch Anything)


            Think of selling as boxing. Not as a contest or battle, but hear me out.

            I will pace myself, counter, evade, pretty much whatever I need to do to get the win. I'll wait until he starts to weaken, I'll pull him in to make him miss. I'll tire him out, anything but cheat.

            But I want to win in 3 or 4 rounds. Why? I get paid the same, and I want to go home.

            I do not want to box 35 rounds with this guy. OK, bad example.

            Think of selling as dating.

            I want her to enjoy herself, I want her to be entertained, I want to impress her. But, in the back of my mind, I want the date to end a certain way.

            It's OK if it doesn't.....but I don't want 35 dates before I find out if we are compatible. (Of course, I'm talking about decades ago. And this entire example is fictitious)

            OK, think of selling as sculpting a statue of ...wait....raising a puppy that...wait....
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            • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Paul; Two things. I like James Taylor, I clicked your link and listened to two of your songs. I had no idea that you had talent in playing the guitar and singing. I was impressed.

              And " I'll be in touch soon and planned to fax him a meeting and proposal review " just drives my "Salesman's soul" crazy.

              ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!! Me? "I get one shot to pitch, and he gets one shot to say yes". I know you have a different mindset, and I don't even know which one is better. But I've found that the buying process of the client is strongly influenced by how hard you grab the prospect's Amygdala and how hard you squeeze. (Yes, Misterme and I read the same book Pitch Anything)


              Think of selling as boxing. Not as a contest or battle, but hear me out.

              I will pace myself, counter, evade, pretty much whatever I need to do to get the win. I'll wait until he starts to weaken, I'll pull him in to make him miss. I'll tire him out, anything but cheat.

              But I want to win in 3 or 4 rounds. Why? I get paid the same, and I want to go home.

              I do not want to box 35 rounds with this guy. OK, bad example.

              Think of selling as dating.

              I want her to enjoy herself, I want her to be entertained, I want to impress her. But, in the back of my mind, I want the date to end a certain way.

              It's OK if it doesn't.....but I don't want 35 dates before I find out if we are compatible. (Of course, I'm talking about decades ago. And this entire example is fictitious)

              OK, think of selling as sculpting a statue of ...wait....raising a puppy that...wait....
              Analogies are a great way to get concepts across...when used in moderation eh?

              I've got a lot to learn Sensei and I'm sure I'll be working harder for my money until I get my sales mojo working.

              And patience is a virtue right (except when you're in a hurry)? If I was selling a $500 website I wouldn't want to invest this kind of time. But I've already got a good 4 hours invested in this and it could be a $1000/mo. plus if my gut is correct, this guy would be an ideal client.

              Thanks for the compliment on the tunes. Glad you like them. I knew someone would click on that link eventually.
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    It's good to get proficient at brainstorming with them. The point of these sessions is to find something that peaks their interest and follow that trail all the way to a signed check.

    I believe the difference between hard and soft is really an issue of leading or pushing.

    Salesmen who push do so because of a limited skill set. Leading the way to a sale takes more skill. Of course, leadership isn't always gentle, just never pushy.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

      It's good to get proficient at brainstorming with them. The point of these sessions is to find something that peaks their interest and follow that trail all the way to a signed check.
      Great point. Seems to me if you walk in and try to sell them a website you have a very slim chance of getting the sale unless that's their priority or you can convince them that should be their priority. But if you can find out what their priorities are or better yet help them see what their priorities TRULY should be, and have the solutions, you're golden.

      Salesmen who push do so because of a limited skill set. Leading the way to a sale takes more skill. Of course, leadership isn't always gentle, just never pushy.
      Another really good point, Dan.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    I think what he may be saying, if it's anything like my experience, is that if you're selling to certain newer generations, they're turned off to anything that remotely whiffs of selling tactics from 50 years ago and they're difficult to sell to that way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      I think what he may be saying, if it's anything like my experience, is that if you're selling to certain newer generations, they're turned off to anything that remotely whiffs of selling tactics from 50 years ago and they're difficult to sell to that way.
      My experience is similar.
      Destitute people, stupid people, and anyone that still sees you as an authority figure will tolerate these obvious techniques (The ones most sales books teach).

      But there are far more choices than 20 years ago. Some people are better at shopping and buying than 20 years ago. And younger people aren't more stupid than we are.

      And higher end consumers are smarter than most (in my experience).

      Selling isn't dead. Selling is going strong. Clumsy, overt, obvious selling is a distraction and will kill many higher end sales.

      Willy Lohman is dead.

      I can say this from experience. Selling a $40 item is different from selling a $5,000 program. And selling to an uneducated poor family that needs to borrow $1,000 from a finance company to buy a vacuum cleaner...is different from the smart consumer that buys after doing intelligent research....and used their AMEX.

      We are running out of Rubes.
      I love being sold. A master salesperson makes it a joy to buy. But I see too many people selling like you see in cartoons or in the movies.
      Tin Men comes to mind. I've met those guys. What they did to sell siding is real. (meaning guys actually did all those cheesy stunts).

      But bad salespeople turn my stomach. And I'm not alone.

      Spin Selling explains the different approaches, at different price points, on different people. Actual extensive test results. It's a map.
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  • Profile picture of the author helisell
    Yes I completely agree with you Claude and Paul.

    Selling successfully today in 2013 is an incredibly skillful pursuit. The old ways were never my ways anyway, and are not the ways I've been teaching all these years.

    Long may it ever be.
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